Some autistic masturbatory detail-thinking about Aliens, granular action/character details:-Throughout the intial phases of the operation, the group really splinter off into four definite sub-groups: two grunt squads, the pilot team (Ferro/Spunkmeyer), and the APC personnel (Gorman, Burke, Ripley, Bishop). The nine grunts (including Apone) form the two squads. First squad takes ground level (and definitely includes Vaz, Hudson and Apone), while second squad takes the upstairs (Hicks, Drake, Frost, Dietrich). This leaves the two cannon-fodder characters Crowe and Wierzbowski, and they appear to be with first squad in some interior shots, but there seem to be some minor confusions and inconsistencies with how the various bodies move up outside in the rain. Crowe appears to be close to Apone as they're about to sortie. Very hard to keep track of these two. Also when you watch the breakfast scene closely, the two minor pawns sit at the back obscured by everyone else, closest to the senior table. (this is how we get a good split-second look at Wierzbowski's face when Ripley slaps Bishop's food away), he's closest to it).-The film does a clever trick (building on original) of suggesting how the Aliens are bugs, take the low ground, live in the basement, lower levels etc. So Ripley focuses everyone's attention on schematics, tunnels, interior/lower structures, a slight tactical error. An early (apparent) throwaway shot in the UPSTAIRS shows Hicks inspecting a room with rain falling on soggy donuts and coffee cups, clearly a damaged roof. They didn't reinforce upper stuff. The aliens simply climbed onto the roof and entered a weak spot.-Later second squad stuff reinforces the Hicks/Drake/Frost second squad formation, and minor character Dietrich is absent during this. She has brief dialogue introducing Newt and establishing her medic function, which will become ironic when she's the very first one attacked and sets off the friendly fire killing her buddies.
>>215094136Very good. Go on.
Reading the official end credits is also useful for ranks. The civvies are Ripley, Newt and Burke, and so they have no military title. Although he works with the unit, Bishop is a sort of adjunct, a piece of equipment lacking human rights, and thus also has no military title. Among the official end credit titles, there's one Lieutenant (Gorman), Sergeant (Apone), seven privates (everyone else not named), but surprisingly, three corporals: Hicks, Ferro, and Dietrich. This is all a fictionalized military structure, and there may(?) be some clear tie-breaker between Ferro and Hicks at the point when Ripley invokes Hicks' seniority. It's a very minor detail in the story, Burke doesn't even question Hicks' seniority in itself, but still something to wonder about.Various secondary sources indicate that there's multiple PFCs (for instance, Hudson), which isn't clear per the above end titles.Once Newt is acquired, it's a group of sixteen. Once the battle is really over (after the 01 dropship "Bug Stomper" crashes), the group is neatly halved down to eight. The grunts have served their purpose, and we've spent just enough time to know them a bit, possibly care a little.
>>215094270I am slightly expanding/repeating recent observations, which you may enjoy reading through. Haven't watched it for a few years, was in the mood recently. I got the more important detail stuff here:https://archive.4plebs.org/tv/thread/214997092/Just thinking through other structural stuff.
>>215094136Wierzbowski and Crowe are definitely part of first squad. They can be seen at 2:26 when Apone signals them to search separate wings of the complex. Wiez goes left with the flamethrower, Crowe goes right with the pulse rifle.https://youtu.be/NuTjddBovIU?si=FoICYybH5nqQmQoJ
>>215094399Yes, there's definitely five figures in the shot there, and in other shots there seems to be either one or two other figures barely visible behind the main camera action on Vaz/Hudson and Hicks. I'm thinking more about the section of initial approach in the rain, just before the clip begins. Bear in mind that it's a group of nine grunts who go in initially, those are the available bodies during the action. First squad approaches the ramp at north lock, and one shot appears to show one or two other figures in the background below the ramp. Then second squad is shown moving up and five figures are clearly visible. It's very minor and unimportant continuity stuff with the extras (Crowe/Wierz), just giving the atmosphere of the sequence. I made a point or closely watching this whole area of the film, may do again because body placement is important around here.Also, the whole "first squad/second squad" thing is slightly mentioned one last time as Gorman orders them to do a silly "flying V" formation divided along those lines, but that's abandoned very quickly as they approach the hive. Then they're all one people. Gorman's green schedule-following gives way to practical reality.
>>215094136I like how all the marines are named after real people who took part in Operation Market Garden, hence the weird and memorable names
>>215094936Go on further
>>215096172>Operation Market GardenQrd?
>>215094136I was watching this last night and ninety percent of the hassle could have been avoided if they had simply left a single person on the ship in orbit.But the obvious hubris and stupidity is an allegory for Vietnam and thinking technology alone can defeat an entrenched guerilla enemy combatant.
>>215094136>autistic Aliens nitpicking threadOh goodThe processor meltdown always bothered me from a storytelling perspective. It's supposed to add a lot of tension as they send Bishop on a daring mission to bring a remotely controlled dropship down but it just raises so many fucking questions. Like they seriously didn't consider that as an option to begin with? Ripley brings it up like "there must be a way to bring it down on remote" like it's incredibly obvious and yet it's only suggested when there's an imminent nuclear explosion. Was their plan really to just weld themselves in Operations for 3 fucking weeks?IMO they should have cut all that shit about remotely piloting ships and instead put a skeleton crew on the Sulaco. Make it so that Bishop's run down to the colony transmitter is for the purpose of contacting the ship to let them know a retrieval needs to happen ASAP. The reactor meltdown should also be made known much earlier.
Ok but why did they send all the Marines they had down from the ship instead of keeping a reserve force
>>215097706>>215097810>>215097828Three posts in a row all saying the same thing. The answer to the question of why didn't they have backup personnel on the ship is BECAUSE THEY ARE RETARDED.It's is made very clear early on through having Gorman in charge. That was specifically done to show that the Colonial Marines were retarded and full of themselves. Literal hubris on wheels.
>>215097906Yes bravoHaving gigantic holes in logic on the part of the marines is the weakest part of the movie>BUT LE HUBRIS OF MANIt literally does not matter, like you're aware they're not real people, and that a writer made them that way? There's a fucking limit to stupidity and this is the kind of retardation that literally only exists to push the plot forward
Ex-Army fag here, and I am also an Aliens detail sperg.I love the subtle details and shit going on. I love the way they really lose their shit when they lose Apone. Really good little scene of command structure coming apart at the seams and natural leaders taking charge on the fly. You can hear Hicks issuing orders and basically keeping his shit together on the radio. Also easy to forget Ripley's rank in the original film, her defacto leadership doesn't just come out of nowhere, nor is it the mere result of her 'being right', or being some kind of 'expert' on aliens.You can even see despite Hudson's panic and being freaked out later, he's doing an admirable job during the actual firefight. He doesn't just turn tail and run or anything like that chick in Starship Troopers when shit finally gets real.That's what makes this movie really good shit.I always liked the way even Ferro - a total non-believer in aliens, who has the cushy pilot job, shocked to come face to face with an alien, has the presence of mind to pull her pistol and almost got a shot off. It shows for all her bullshit, she's still a legit badass space marine. Maybe you didn't notice, but your brain did.That kind of shit is why we're here still talking about this film 40 years later.Also notice Dietrich - the medic - is the one who suggests that maybe they don't show up on infrared?
