What's the point of all the rescued humans to become martial arts masters when Morpheus himself says nobody can beat agents? Wouldn't it make more sense to learn infiltration, stealth, and guerilla tactics? Maybe pre-download all the phone booth locations into everyone's brains before a mission, just in case. Make exit plans beforehand. Disguises. Distractions. Use hand grenades and place traps to cover your escape in case you get caught.Is brute force really the best way? Maybe for Neo, but what about all the others?
>>215142559wasn't the idea that he was training them to find The One
>>215142559
>>215142570yeah. the whole point of the martial arts training was some sort of zen spiritual thing. not just physical.
>>215142559They need it to beat the cops, gangers or anyone BEFORE they turn into agents.It's almost like... You didn't saw the movie :)
>>215142704Yeah exactly, it was about bending spoons, flying and dodging bullets more than it was about fighting. Morpheus literally narrates all this as they're in the dojo
>>215142559they search for the onethey have replacement for people killed by agents
>>215142559It was pretty explicit, it was to make them waste time while their friends escaped.
If they can spawn infinite weapons why not just spawn a bunch of nukes and dirty bombs and just start nuking shit everywhere to destabilize Matrix and force it into negotiations, pretty much as it happens in the third movie
Why even go back into the matrix?
>>215142559are you retarded? They still face cops and security? The movie starts out with Trinity killing a room/hallway full of faggot cops. What about the lobby scene anon? Please just answer my question, are you retarded?
the uploaded the hollow man program on a few guys and guess what happened
>DO YOU BREATHE NIGGA?Thought that was a little strange for him to say to get Neo to stop thinking the oxygen was real.
>>215142993Wasn't Morpheus supposed to have done something like that in the backstory of the first film. There was a reason he was known as a wanted terrorist.
>>215142993>>215143343I imagine it's not very effective as Morpheus doesn't want people dead as he wants to free people in the first place and the machines just eat the recently created bodies anyway.
>>215142559They couldn't beat agents but there was other shit in the Matrix they had to know kung fu to fight, like ghosts and shit.
>>215142571>see thumbnail >start laughing
Why don't the machines simply cut all the landlines?
>>215143553They did that is why pretty much everything was wireless which is why people tried to simply cut off the sun.
What the fuck was his problem?
>>215143553The machines allow the resistance to exist. They allow Zion to exist. They need it to find and cultivate the One, who they need to reload the Matrix every so often. These reloads prevent a cascading number of humans from subconsciously rejecting the Matrix and crippling the system. This all gets explained by the Architect.
>>215142559The real answer is because it's cool. Who wants to watch a movie of a bunch of mooks crouching and hiding behind boxes?
>>215142559>Maybe pre-download all the phone booth locations into everyone's brains before a missionI'm pretty sure they do know where the phone booths are when they go in they don't run away in random directions. The problem is agents can be anyone and anywhere so you have very little idea what your route will be, and the idea is you normally get in and out before anyone notices so setting up a bunch of traps goes against that.
>>215143841Most people who watched the Matrix movies still don't get this even though it was explained to them slowly and clearly. They then say it doesn't makes sense and why "durrr only the first one is good" is a common opinion.
>>215143841Can't they just press a button that reads "reload"? Since they created all this shit in the first place, they should have that button, no?
>>215143871I was under the impression that the sequels were bad due to the movies themselves being poorly mad in terms of pacing, cinematography, dialogue, etc, rather than the plot itself being the problem. I say this because I've never bothered to watch them but am aware of the plot to both, and it always seemed to be fairly good to me, so I presumed they must suck due to other reasons.
>>215143790He didn't get any orgasm cake...
>>215143903*poorly made
>>215142559They get attacked by more than just Agents. The first scene has Trinity fighting off a group of cops. One of the most famous scenes is Neo and Trinity having a massive gunfight against a bunch of security gaurds/military guys.>>215143851Pretty sure in the first movie, Neo has to call up Tank and ask where his nearest exit is after the agents shoot the first booth.I also remember Morpheus doing something similar in the 2nd film right before the highway chase... but that may have been for something related to the Keymaker instead.
>>215143938>I also remember Morpheus doing something similar in the 2nd film right before the highway chase... but that may have been for something related to the Keymaker instead.It could also be explained by all the teleportation door shit happening. They go into the restaurant, then teleport to his mansion, then teleport back to the city. Probably only "loaded" the exits near the restaurant, not on the entire other side of the city.
>>215143903No really, it's the story (mainly the Architect) that confuses them and they just write the whole movie off as bad.
>>215143845Isn't that half the plot of crouching tiger hidden dragon?Oops sorry, you said mooks with an m, nevermind.
>>215142559it was just nonsense designed to look cool to 12 year old boys, youre like an old man trying to make sense of the physics in tom and jerry
>>215143871thats because it doesnt make sense>NOOO IT HAS TO BE KEANU REEVES RESTARTING IT BECAUSE IT JUST HAS TO OK
>>215142559The entire premise is retarded. The agents could just datamine for any breaches and immediately know when a person connects to the system.That's why it makes sense that they already know and are just going through the motions over and over again until they get another Neo that requires a restart.What I mean is that the matrix itself is limiting the agents power so the sim can run it's course.
>>215144084>The agents could just datamine for any breaches and immediately know when a person connects to the system.How?
>>215143968are they worth a watch then, if I already know that the plot is something I both like and understand? The original is already a perfect film to me (not as in 'flawless' but as in 'has a coherent, self-contained arc and I don't really feel like I need more') so I don't wanna retroactively fuck with it
>>215143895>>215144039The way it's presented is that the One has to *choose* to reload the Matrix for the reload to be effective as a reset. The One embodies all the rejection of the Matrix - so if he chooses to reload it that rejection is entirely eliminated, the equation can be rebalanced, and a reload can effectively be made with the Matrix reset to 100% acceptance.The One is always presented with a choice between agreeing to reload the Matrix or allowing the total destruction of the human race at the end of each cycle. All the Ones before Neo choose to reload the Matrix because of their love of humanity, even though this bargain involves the violent reduction of Zion to 23 individuals. Each One therefore represents both beginning and end, both for the Matrix and Zion.
>>215144303>are they worth a watch thenNTA, but I actually just binged the whole trilogy yesterday for the first time and I'd say yes, the latter films, while lacking in atmosphere and meaning, are still decent flicks in their own right and have bits and pieces of what you liked about the original.
>>215143841Sequelsfags are subhuman
Literally the first scene of the movie shows why.
>>215144288Why couldn't they? You telling me a program as complex as the matrix doesn't know when a new connection is established? How would it check on the status of the "batteries" if it can't detect connections?
>>215144955That is above the agent's status.
>>215142571didn't even opened that shit and already keking
>>215143790Why does a machine cares so much about having his dick sucked by another machine in a bathroom?
>>215144955Youre right even tho you dont really know what youre talking about in that the machines could have made a secure matrix. But they cant really take it offline without commiting suicide so presumably theyre stuck with their first revision where they dont have strict login security because they didnt anticipate human resistance. Its also apparently analog input which complicates it
>>215143871>>215143968>everyone is too dumb to understand the story>everyone but me of course he he heNewsflash: most people who watched Matrix 2 and 3 understood the story perfectly fine. Everyone just thinks it's fucking stupid and massive let down after the first movie.
If they can spawn weapons and train in a sandbox version of the matrix, why not simulate a virtual fancy dinner table with only the best food and then take the nutritious goo through the veins while you're there?
>>215143871While I agree a lot of people miss on that, the first one is really really good, while the others are shit and for other reasons.
>>215145633First movie:>Neo becomes THE CHOSEN ONE and starts to BELIEVE just like Morpheus told him>Neo heroically saves Morpheus from Agents, who were deadly and undefeteable>Neo dodges bullets and beats Agent 1 vs 1, something that was established as not possible for human to do>Neo literally cheats death and gets the girl in the end, he is the ultimate protagonistThen in next two movies:>Oh it's just like 7th or 8th time we are doing this whole "matrix" and "the chosen one" schtick, not a big deal, we'll restart the simulation tomorrow>Neo is not special, there were other Neos before him, maybe they were even cooler?>Neo can't even beat single Smith anymore, what the fuck happened to his abilities?>His most used superpower is flying away like a cowardly pussy>Neo saved Morpheus to prevent machines from getting keys to Zion, but that doesn't matter lol, machines can just dig a deep hole and get to Zion in a day or two (why didn't they do that earlier???)>Neo just tags along and is reactive hero, doesn't move the plot forward that much, acts like a passive whiny faggot (muh trinity....sob...)If that's not one of the biggest let downs in cinema then I don't know what is. They literally did everything to undermine Neo and his accomplishments from first movie. That's why people disliked the sequels.
>>215143938he has to call tank because the operator sets up the hardline that takes them in and out of the matrix. you can't just walk up to any phone, it has to be the specific phone that the operator connects for you - hence the term operator
>>215145849but neo is the one who brings peace between man and machine, preventing the extinction of both. he breaks the cycle and saves the world.
>>215146156It's actually Smith's doing because he breaks his programming and goes rogue thus threatening machine world (and it's all thanks to first movie Neo). Sequel Neo just reacts to Smith menace. If not Smith, Neo would have nothing to offer machines and couldn't negotiate peace. Sequel Neo is reactive hero (pussy), not proactive hero (chad).
>>215142559Because it's gnostic slop written by transgender jews
>>215146287>nothing to offer machineshe refused to reset the matrix, which would doom the machines to near-death. the architect says "there are some forms of survival we are willing to accept", implying they would survive but just barely and in a very different state. coupled with smith's rampage through the matrix (made possible by neo via the way he killed smith at the end of 1), neo recognized that he had the machines dead to rights - they were about to lose both the entire matrix population and the population of zion, which means essentially the end for everybody. Neo sacrifices himself and saves every man, woman, child and machine on earth. you know, like he's their savior man - their own personal jesus christ.
>>215142559He's training them to bend the Matrix. Using the other techniques wouldn't really do that. Bending the Matrix i the only power they have that can make them effective. Without it, even escape would be almost impossible.
>>215144955>You telling me a program as complex as the matrix doesn't know when a new connection is established?>as complex as the matrixYou answered your own question. The Matrix was like an Internet, not like a single MMO video game where an admin can see the connections and ban players. You don't see every connection being established to the Internet. Nobody does. It's impossible.
>>215144342All this convoluted lore is delivered in 5 minute long infodump by deus ex(position) machina character. Nothing ever hinted at it before. Nothing was ever established leading to this. It makes extremely little sense considering all other things we already knew about the world. Really shows they spend years working on the script for first movie, then only had 6 months to come up with sequels.
>>215146932I'd agree that the sequels have unsatisfactory elements from a filmmaking/storytelling perspective. The Architect scene breaks a major cinematic rule - it spends too much time telling rather than showing. But I disagree that it makes very little sense. The secret at the heart of the Matrix - that the resistance, Zion, the One are all control measures integral to maintaining the system - is logically consistent and a pretty good twist. It also works well within the overarching philosophical context of the films.
>>215142559I'd rather stay bluepilled. The real world sucks balls.
>>215147471Maybe they let you sleep in the goo if you ask nicely
how does smith gain sentience in the first movie? is it just supposed to be a sign of "evolution" within the programs? they expand on this a bit later with the programs in the train station trying to get their daughter out, but i dont recall an exact reason other than smith telling morpheus "i hate this place" which doesnt explain how he came to possess those feelings.
>>215144342and that is still 100% retarded and makes no sense> The One embodies all the rejection of the Matrix - so if he chooses to reload it that rejection is entirely eliminated, the equation can be rebalanced, and a reload can effectively be made with the Matrix reset to 100% acceptance.and why would that be the case? >because it fits the desired symbolismwow ok then of course it makes total sense
>>215143841>This all gets explained by the Architect.He quite literally says none of this, fucking retard.
>>215147590he didn't gain sentience in the first movie, he was destroyedhis comeback and sentience and shit is asspull in the second one because they wanted to keep the actor, since he was really liked as agent smith
its pretty clear they didnt have an plans for a sequel and then when it was a huge success they just started shitting out material
>>215147647he was clearly going rogue and gaining agency (heh) though. he takes his earpiece out and gives morpheus a huge emotional rant then the other agents walk in and go "wtf dude?"
>>215147654They had some vague ideas for what can happen next in the story, but Warner Bros wanted to get the sequels as quickly as possible, and forced them to film two at the same time to cut costs. They had very little time to write scripts.
>>215147683I don't think that was sentience or agency. It was just him being Aalpha Agent and using more advanced tricks to get the job done, which was to mindbreak Morpheus.
i bet smith would have mellowed out if he got his robomeat smoked. just think about it
>>215144955>You telling me a program as complex as the matrix doesn't know when a new connection is established?They already have a massive issue with "rogue" programs.
>>215147629...the whole thing falls apart without metaphor and symbolism. The first film has a million things in it that require you to suspend your disbelief and go along with the logic of the film, like:>How could human beings be an efficient power source for machines while just lying down in a pool of goo? Between the calories consumed by the brain and basic organ function there's no way human energy output could compete with even basic energy production technology.>Why would the machines give them a massively energy-intensive virtual reality world with the threat of rebellion instead of just lobotomising them instead?>Why would they allow dial-up points of entry/exit in this virtual world for infiltration by resistance fighters instead of using a closed system?>Why are there anthropomorphic programs with limitations engaging in physical combat with the resistance in the virtual world when the machines could create a God/Admin program that immediately deletes the resistance fighters with minimal fuss upon detection?And so on. You shouldn't be able to get that far if you're looking for a literal/realistic sci-fi dystopia.
>>215142559Nobody can BEAT agents, but they can slow them and their lackeys down enough to run away from them on a good day.Did you even watch the film, zoomzoom? Oh right your atrophied brain can't process anything that isn't explicitly exposited to you in dialogue.
Recurring reminder that the "Coppertop" argument is Unreliable Narration and the real explanation that makes sense about the Matrix is that it isn't created "to keep humans busy to harvest calories", rather the illusion space that is the matrix IS the combined amalgam product of those countless human minds creating a shared dreamscape, and the machines desire this field of thought to actually "think" themselves. The entire reason Neo and pals can bend reality is an abstraction of our reality: a significantly powerful WILL can bend the minds of others to his thinking and beliefs. The Matrix makes this a literal truth. Belief in self + strong willpower == influence of the beliefs of others. Because the Matrix is the projection of the shared collective conscious and unconscious, this manifests as a physical transformation of reality. This is why 1999 viewers saw it as so profound, because it invited one to consider just how much our own perceptions are influenced (and more importantly, limited) by belief and preconception, and what might be psychologically if not physically possible in the yet-unimagined extremes of freeing ourselves from these preconceptions.And then two more movies came out that complete shat on any sort of philosophical progress the original had made.
>>215142571kek
>>215146156Writing that out like you think it's cool in summary does not absolve those two films from being completely unsalvageable poorly executed trainwreck clusterfucks of inferiorly-explored philosophical and personal narrative compared to their predecessor. On an intellectual level it's a helmet-wearing special needs child with crayons trying to write a sequel to a timeless classic story only with more gokus and spongebobs.>inb4 same wachoskisNot really
>>215148441>>How could human beings be an efficient power source for machines while just lying down in a pool of goo? Between the calories consumed by the brain and basic organ function there's no way human energy output could compete with even basic energy production technology.All of that works way better if you think of it using the original premise: human brains used for compute resources. They dumbed it down because Morpheus holding a duracel made more sense do the dumbass audiences of 1999.The whole "you can load kung fu onto people" and "neo can manipulate and bend the rules of the matrix" makes way more sense when you realize that the matrix is running on human brains to begin with.
>>215143903You're right. And concerning what the other anon said, the idea doesn't necessarily confuse people, as much as hiw it is conveyed. The sequels certainly aren't as good as the first one. Reloaded ia still enjoyable.
>>215142559>What's the point of all the rescued humans to become martial arts masters when Morpheus himself says nobody can beat agents?Because they don't always fight agents, retard. They usually fight cops and security guards. Did you even watch the movie? Neo and Trinity wiped out an entire special forces squad before the agents had any idea they were in the building.
>>215142993>why don't they just kill millions of their own people broBesides, the Architect made it clear that the machines are willing to let the humans die if Neo turned down their offer. "There are levels of survival we are willing to accept."
>>215148903>an entire special forces squadThose guys were just wagies.
>>215148903>>215142559There's also the question "why WOULDN'T you give yourself super kungfu powers if you could?"There really doesn't have to be any more explanation than that. You're telling me if someone had a machine that could make you into bruce lee in five minutes you wouldn't do it?
>>215142570>>215142704>>215142776It's like people on this board don't actually watch the movie or pay attention before asking stupid questions. Morpheus explains it all just like you said. Then goes to the jump program, which Neo fails showing he's progressing but still not ready. Op demonstrates that it was right for them to change the premise of the humans to being batteries. The majority of the audience for the Matrix is just too stupid to understand most of it.
>>215143871Slowly maybe but not clearly, that anon just explained it clearly, the Cockoff sisters used 30 words where one would do
Why didn't the rebels just upload 10000 nukes to the Matrix and blow up the Smith's?
>>215147690peter jackson fucked them over iirc, he shot LOTR and 3 back to back and studio execs thought that was the smartest thing ever and started forcing other people to do it too.
>>215148591>And then two more movies came out that complete shat on any sort of philosophical progress the original had made.3 literally confirms your metacognitive theory tho when neo is able to affect matrix machines without having to be plugged in.
>>215150281they did that multiple times did you miss the part where the architect shows them how many iterations of the matrix there are.the oracle exists to prevent neo from spazzing out and nuking the matrix
>>215143871The plot not making sense isnt why the sequels were dogshit
>>215142559You can't predownload the locations of phone booths because the agents could physically manipulate them.
>>215150662>the oracleDoes she even have any precognition abilities? I felt like her function was primarily to give pep talks and make Neo believe in himself. Like Neville Goddard.
>>215143790He thought sex was love, like the lgbt faggots grooming kids to chop their dicks off.
>neo becomes the one>can now control the matrix>still does stupid kung fu stuff in the sequels
>>215150776What would (you) do?
>>215150776spoiler: he wasn't "the one." he needed tons of help to start doing anything.
>>215150862>even the "chosen" moids can't do shit without muh pussy muh lovePathetic.
>>215144955>Why couldn't they?You can't even keep India off the Internet yet here we are. The matrix isn't just one computer, it's billions. The resistance connects to the network and pretends to be a normal connection.
>>215150944the one was the spoon bending kid. who'd doom humanity to another cycle in a heartbeat.
