Why has this been retconned into being unliked. We all loved it back in the day.
S1 was good, S2 was ok, S3 sucked.. I saw the trend and didn't bother with anything else.And yes, with S3 I began to realize how poorly S1 was written. So ovwrall. The whole thing sucks.
>>215187810They blew their Moriarty wad too early. Last season was a letdown.
>>215187905Also, no explanation for how he faked his suicide. Just asspull after asspull-tier writing. The writers are hacks.
>>215187810People eventually got around to watching Elementary and realized it mogged BBClock in every way imaginable. BBClock was more like a skinwalker show using the IP and characters as a vehicle for fag metaphors.
>>215187975This. Elementary was god tier in comparison
>>215187975>>215187999>race and sex swapped Watson>sex swapped Moriarty>ms hudson played by a massive tranny>made Sherlock a drug junkie>made Watson a failed surgeon>made Lestrade an incompetent gloryhound>police procedural with the same "Sherlock accidentally solves 6 unrelated crimes in the process of proving his quadruple twist to an initially obvious/easy case" nearly every episode>microsoft product placement in seasons 1 and 2>still kinoHow the fuck did they do it
>>215188063>made Sherlock a drug junkieAnon...
>>215187810Series 3 was one of those releases that was so bad that they irreversibly tarnish the whole show and what came after was even worse.
>>215188165Yeah I'm still on Season 2 but unless they go "acktually he knew about Adler all along and this was all 5D chess and never actually used" I'm taking back everything I said about this show being good because him being an ex junkie fuckup highly balances out how much of an asshole he is in the series. Like Sherlock was never the nicest man in the books but loose cannon doesn't even describe him here.
>>215187810>Mogs all procedurals with token Brits>Completely forgotten Tis a shame.
>>215187810Henry Cavill is actually a good Sherlock.
It's that annoying doctor who wank about being clever, clever and even more clever, especially after Watson's wife dies but we still get to see her from beyond the grave via pre recorded dvds
What if Sherlock Holmes was a cute chinese apothecary?
>>215187810Did we? Or were you easily duped?
>Sherlock Holmes thread>OP pic isn't Jeremy Brett
>>215187968They used a whole episode to explain it. It was a pretend fall and everyone was in on it
The first season was genuinely great. Then Sherlock became the center of the universe, everything and everyone revolved around him, not just Watson. Not to mention his sister who suddenly had superpowers or that guy who blackmailed everyone, one of the stupidest villains I've ever seen. People should never let Moffat being a showrunner, he should stick to single episodes
>>215188449>Jeremy BrettHe was overrated and misplayed Holmes.Holmes was charming Brett was an asshole
i liked the first episode. i know everyone takes the piss out of the floating text/graphics when it gets egregious, but it's pretty kino.then yeah it just got '''clever''' instead of actually clever. i can suspend my disbelief about a man's height from his stride, but i know how the method of loci and USB drives work.
>>215188063i ask myself the exact question in literally these exact same terms. how the fuck did elementary manage to be so good and make Sherlock look like a complete embarrassment
bazinga
>>215188187anon sherlock is always a junkie he's an opium addict
>>215187810S1 and S2 were kino. What came after is basically fanfic-tier shit, inspired by teenage girls from Ao3.
>>215189650is this not one of those things the books mentioned once or twice and people have just extrapolated on? been ages since i read them, i remember SOMETHING about Watson preparing a 20% laudanum solution, something like that?i know the first Rathbone flick ended with him celebrating by shooting up, but it's like how the stories mentioned he could fistfight, so that's a big thing in the Guy Ritchie films. Irene Adler is in a story, that's Sherlock's canon waifu. etc.
>>215189740thas what sherlock is they also have him playing the violin when the gypsy girl dies so now sherlock is always plays the violin, you knw the term "canon" comes from sherlock holmes and fans being obsessive about every detail, only the books written by arthur conan doyle are "canon" and they have the opium the fist fighting and the violin
>>215187810Much like most of Moffat's run on Doctor Who, this show was always cringe. Any good moments were in the minority. I don't know why the BBC didn't just adapt the Sherlock stories into seperate period piece TV movies like they did with the Agatha Christie books. There Will Be None and Witness for a Prosecution were kino.
>>215189825Because moffag thought he could do better.
>>215189825Didn't Moffat also adapted Dracula?
>>215187810who are "we"?season 1 was kind of entertaining, season 2 tolerably cringe, never made it past 5 minutes in season 3
>>215190559Yes. I heard good things about it. i watched a clip where Harker is talking to a nun and it seems insufferable. So I will likely never watch it.
>>215189740it wasn't as defining a trait of his character in the stories but it was mentioned more than a couple of times. at one point holmes gets frustrated with him for it and makes him quit.the part of him turning to drugs whenever he's bored is from the books too. however by the later stories he seemed to have abandoned the opium bit. i only recall seeing it until midway into the stories. at one point he goes inside an opium den in disguise and it didn't seem to bother him much, wasn't tempted into relapse or anything like that from elementary
>>215189650And cocaine (injected). Hell, he probably invented the speedball off-page at some point.
>>215190736https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzYYS8CbOE8
>>215191075It's set in modern day??? I thought it was a period pice adaptation, fucking hell. Any slack I may have given the project has been thrown out of the window.
>>215191072>tfw my IQ is 113sub 110errs just dont get it
>>2151906534chan.com/television
>>215187975>incel episodeNah, I'll admit the Moriarty reveal was kino of the highest order though.
>>215188522Better Sherlock, that's it. And Lucy Liu is a very good watson as well.
>>215191304The fag who played Moritty is terrible. Overacting
>>215187810I've loved Moffat's shit since Press Gang. Right out the gate with what could have been just another kid's show he goes above and beyond, not afraid to insert big ideas and extreme characters. By his own admission he's swings for the fences every time, and so when it works it really works, but when he strikes out it's just as spectacularly.It's a matter of taste, but I like this approach and his style of writing, so I'm personally more forgiving of the failures. He got a little too far up-his-own arse sometimes, like with the 'muh stronk whammen' in the Woke Era - but then again he's one of the few faggots who can actually write them on a good day - starting with Lynda Day. They are often at least interesting and fun with some kind of depth and dimensionality, no matter how cartoonish they are.The thing is, his characters are always 'larger than life', and that can easily go wrong, but it sure as fuck beats boring. Just imagine you had this motherfucker writing Star Wars characters for Disney. You might not like his version of Rey, but at the very least she wouldn't put you to sleep, she'd still have convincing female motivations, and she'd have some kind of actual relationships with the rest of the cast, while she's being the key to everything.The last of which is the real meat and potatoes when it comes to writing. Not just coming up with standalone 'le characters', but filling up the space in-between them. How they feel about each other. Which is way more complex and purely by Triangular Numbers there are more 'relationships' than characters:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_numberThis is why you feel absolutely nothing watching Disney Star Wars and don't give a shit about anything going on. Less to do with salt planets and more to do with not knowing how anyone feels about anyone else.I can always see what Moffat was TRYING to do, even when he falls flat on his face, and I can at least appreciate that.
>>215187892this. it started strong and it just kept getting dumber and dumber, and nobody would admit it in the mainstream bongland
>>215188063>>215188522Because most of the changes in Elementary are cosmetic and the underlying story and character dynamics are actually very close to the original Conan-Doyle stories. Sherlock has shit writing, no amount of good casting will get around that. >>215189740Being an occasional cocaine user wasn’t a big deal in the 1890s, but he is actually shown shooting up in some of the stories. Adaptations like to run with it as a source of drama.
Final season and especially final episode was so stupid it ruined my memory of what was a good show in the beginning.
The Moriarty plot honestly sucked balls. Should've been standalone mysteries each episode. My favourite episode is the Hounds of Baskerville in season 2.
you try and you trybut you will never achieve perfection, mon ami
The last season was so bad it even killed my long distant relationship that I had with a swedish cutie I met in an international interchange program (we bonded with the first season)
it insists upon itself
>>215187810Because Elementary was better, despite gender swapping Watson and Moriarty. And I fucking hate women.
>>215187810It's Moffat cringe shit
>>215188522sherlock quickly climbed up it's own ass trying to be too clever and pretty much went full retard with it, elementary stayed relatively grounded.
>>215191882>Press Gangyou're alright lad
>>215191072This is embarrassing
>>215193197Lmao
>>215187810Once Moriarty appeared it turned to shit.
>>215187810This show was proto-woke Tumblrinas who watched this show influenced the modern woke writing
>>215191072the fucking dog png kek
>>215187905Yeah I enjoyed it for the most part but Moriarty got royally shafted in it. And then they took a shit on his corpse with the whole 'oh he was just a brainless random pawn, it was le evil Sherlock sister all along" garbage
>>215188454that explanation was bullshit. the guy hallucinated Sherlock explaining the whole thing.
>>215191072"How did Sherlock figure out the big mystery?""Oh he just remembered that he heard all about it one time"
>>215193046That's right, because perfection was already achieved!
>>215187810
>>215194478Watson, this is a most *excellent* post
>>215191072What? None of you have ever treated your autism as a superpower to solve a problem?
>>215191882>I've loved Moffat's shit since Press Gang. never seen his earlier work except for Coupling, but what you say sounds about right.as someone who likes a fair bit of RTD's telly (right back to Dark Season) it's mad how you can see hints of the worst excesses that were in Doctor Who.i think a lot of writers just really need someone to rein them in. write in pairs, like early Red Dwarf.
>>215191072Me coming up with ways to force Sneed puns in unrelated threads
>>215194387heh
>>215187892fpbp. they drank their own koolaid and it went from a fun detective show to a masturbatory faggot introspective of le epic characters. For some people like the same bullshit in Hannibal as well but at least that show had some action and visuals at times.Remember when Bilbos wife turned out to be the british black widow or whatever it was? Yeah me neither because I checked out at that point.I have genuinly only heard of sherlocks secret sister and something about how she could brainwash anyone just by talking to them for a minute, and thats exactly where the show was headed when I am le smartest but I am le smarterer became the only thing the show revolved around
Can someone post the great copypasta of how this show tried to pretend it was smart but was written by dumb people thinking it was smart
>>215195774no.
>>215195774>>215194665
>>215194665my favorite part of this will always be the dartboard with a picture of George Washington Carver on it
>>215189650>>215188165Sherlock is absolutely not an addict, you are just too used to trash sherlock renditions
>>215193008For me it's the Great Game, loved the Adler episode as well
>>215195886That’s the one.
led to shit likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZFPf58PMsk
>>215187810It's the classic Steven Moffat effect, his writing is fundmentally all flash with no substance. All sizzle no steak. It seems good the first time you watch it, but the more you think about it the more you notice how empty it is. It's all momentum and drama but nothing to sink your teeth into. His Doctor Who and Dracula writing is the same. There are a few great moments, a few flashes of genuine skill, but the rest is just >'Wow look how cool and witty the main character is! He's so awesome! How does he do it? I mean don't actually think about he does it, he just kicks ass! Yeah woo!!!'But it doesn't hold up.
>>215187975spent the afternoon watching the first few episodes, i really prefer this version of sherlock
>>215187810The first season was kino. Beyond that it dissappeared up Moffat's ass.
>>215187810Because people realised that the entire point of the show is Moffat saying screw you to the fans that actually wanted to figure out the mysteries.
>>215187975This.BBC Sherlock's take on addiction>Sherlock relapses. Everyone is very mad at him. Even Molly, who is obsessed with him, slaps him for being so silly. Everyone is shocked, but agrees he deserves it for being a bad boy and using naughty drugs. End of subplot, on with the real story!Elementary's take on addiction>A fundamental part of the character's presentation. Goes to meetings, has a sponsor and sponsors others. Treats the whole thing with the usual 'I'm above this' Sherlock attitude, but it consistently reminded that he's an addict and can't outsmart his demons. Even the potential of relapse is treated with the seriousness it would be in real life.It's just one aspect but it says a lot. Elementary is superior in pretty much every way. Prove me wrong.
>>215197121His Dracula is amazing, the fuck you sayingThe meat was already there, he just added more sizzle to itIt's only crime of that series was to make the most beautiful girl on the planet a nigress, but I don't think that's the writer's fault
>>215197235>The first season was kinoseems weird calling 3 telefilms a season
>>215197369SHERLOCKHOLMESIS NOTA DRUG ADDICTNON OF THOSE TAKES IS THE ACTUAL TAKES OF THE BOOKSThe bbc one is actually unironically objectively closer to it
>>215197390I don't agree, but I was pretty done with his whole style by that point. Just endless shallow conversations with the protagonists being so smug and in control, no real feeling of danger unless they make a mistake. Maybe I should try it again.
>>215197463What's there is 60% dracula bruhIf you don't like dracula that's perfectly fineI'm guessing you didn't watch Nosferatu
>>215187810Moriarty deserved a spin off.I'd have had him genuinely be a failed actor, blacklisted for being a nightmare to work with, fell into a life of crime because he was obsessed with proving he can play a villain. Sought out his hero in Sherlock. Used his experience of working on a medical drama to fake his suicide having decided he and Sherlock's story had reached its conclusion.Then a spin off series where he sets off to new places on the search for his next hero to challenge him.
>>215187999How many episodes do they fuck? Because if they're not fucking in at least half them I don't think the show sounds very believable
>>215197424I don't care which is closer to the books, they're both modern day adaptations. They use smart phones and drive cars, I'm fine with them updating some aspects of the character.My point is that they both choose to tackle the real life, real world, modern day problem of drug addiction. BBC Sherlock implies he's an addict but brushes it off as a tertiary sub plot, Elementary treats it like an actual addiction as we understand it today.Elementary's take makes the character more complex, it adds another layer to his relationship with Watson, and adds real stakes for Sherlock's motivations and actions. It adds a flaw and narrative journey to the character.Whereas BBC Sherlock went out of their way to make him an addict, then dismissed it. Why add it at all if they aren't going to do something interesting with it? Just a big dramatic slap, as if that's all you need to do if someone you care about is found strung out in a drug den. >Wow a slap in the face? Guess I'll stay away from drugs from now on! Don't want to get slapped again! Guess I'm cured!It's childish.
>>215190559He also adapted Jekyll and Hyde
>>215197615you are not a very good writer, you don't have particularly good ideas, and on top of all that, you didn't understood the source materialI don't think anybody should let you get even near a script
>>215191072They went one better with Druk's brother. First letting everyone think he had spy glasses and then that he had a huge library of information. That all turned out to be just his big brain
>>215197497Dracula didn't open with a nun smugly talking down to everyone and acting like the coolest and smartest person in the room every time she opens her mouth. His protagonists are insufferable, if you met any of his characters in real life you'd think they were self important assholes.
>>215194665>a faint scent of penis
>>215187810Cucumber and Freeman were decent enough to trick us into giving it a chance but the entire series was really fucking terrible.
>>215197744Oh she is very smug alrightI'm cool with thatI also know she's not real so I don't need to project what would I do if I met herI avoid "self important assholes" in real life, but I have no problem seeing them in fiction, specially if they get some kind of karma because of their smugness, and she actually does, that's why I don't have any complains about the series besides their choise in casting
>>215191072This is what dumb people think smart people do.
it was enjoyable until the feminism special
>>215187892This post says everything that needs to be said about this show.
>>215197679I don't think Sherlock Holmes needs any realistic coddling teaching of how a drug addict lives, because he's not a drug addict to begin withBecause he's not a drug addict to begin with, I don't think to you need to make him an addict to "add more complexity" to Sherlock Holmes. With that same line of reasoning, you can make Hamlet, you can make Odysseus, you can make Harry Potter or any character in the world a drug addict to "add more complexity"
>>215197893The first line of his post says everything that needs to be said about every single show ever
>>215197828I know she's not real, but it also ruins the narrative. Dracula is a horror story, having a smug know-it-all open the story with a bunch of witty remarks isn't scary or tense, it's just annoying. Like it's Dracula, it's the original spooky vampire story, why does it spend so long feeling like a snarky teenage girl's fanfiction of what they would do and say if they were in the story?
>>215197982now I KNOW you haven't seen NosferatuIt's just a different take brother, it's a different point of viewThe story was told a thousand timesYou can tell the story from a mixed point of view, from the one hunting dracula's pov (this dracula series) from the nigress's boyfriend pov (nosferatu), from that girl's pov (syrie james's dracula), this new movie coming up I think it's the same story from luc besson is Dracula's povIf this was your first entry to Dracula story I'm sorry for youIf you already know dracula, this series is a fresh take on it, that's why I don't mind the girly smug van helsing, she even fucking dies on it, so it's not even a feminist tale
>>215197913>any character in the world a drug addict to "add more complexity"But Sherlock does canonically use hard drugs in the original text, he uses cocaine and morphine when he's bored and doesn't have a case. We can talk all day about how he wasn't technically an addict by that time's standards, maybe use of those drugs was more common, maybe he doesn't go withdrawal or anything but the character's drug use is a fact.If Hamlet, Odysseus or Harry Potter snorted a line of coke in their stories, it wouldn't be crazy to bring it up in a remake. And if you were watching any modern day TV show about a detective who's shown using coke and opiates multiple times, you'd assume they had some kind of substance abuse issues whether it was stated explicitly or not.It's definitely a creative decision to make drug use a larger aspect of the character, but neither adaptation invented it. And Elementary did it better.
>>215197424you arw a fucking moron
>>215198158My problem isn't that this is a different take on Dracula, it's that I don't like Moffat's writing. His dialogue isn't as witty as he thinks it is, and his characters aren't as smart. I found it irritating because of the way he writes, not because it wasn't faithful to the book. I watch a show called 'Dracula' expecting something at least attempting to be tense and scary, but get scene after scene of an annoying protagonist asking stupid questions and making snarky comments.And it's not a woman hating thing either, I have no problem with female protagonists. I was just so sick of Moffat's style when I watched it that the whole thing grated on me.Like I said maybe I should watch it again, it's the right season for it after all.
>>215198297And what I said is that this is a different rendition, different pov. Your expectation was not met.I wanted to see a new retelling of the story I knew, and this was a fresh take, i liked it.I can see you were expecting full dread and horror but no, this was definitely not that.If I can summarize it, I would say this is "an exploration of how a girl van helsing tries to understand Dracula", I wouldn't expect too much fear/horror.And while the girl was smug and her dialogue bossy and know-it-all, the girl cast was frail and very small, dovey, her body attitude is always meek. I liked that contrast as well
>>215198644Yeah we can agree to disagree on this one. Moffat just feels like a one trick pony to me, this is his take on Dracula and I don't like. His Doctor Who started good but went down the same path, as did Sherlock. Snarky, self important, unserious characters and dialogue that kills the possibility of real tension. It's like he doesn't take any story seriously or give them any gravity, it's all just silly and 'cool'.
>>215187810I rarely come to /tv/ because normgroid boards are more likely to ban you but I saw the OP and I wanted to say I quit in the first episode when they mentioned a gay character. A clear sign this show is filled with jewish propaganda.
>>215198171In the original stories, Watson straight-up considers Holmes to be an addict. Granted, Watson is a doctor and so maybe over-sensitive, but still.
>>215199186There you go, making a modern Sherlock a confirmed addict isn't even a stretch, more like a logical next step. I don't always like addiction stories but Elementary's was at least interesting. It humanized an otherwise fairly superhuman character. It also gave Watson more to do, she isn't just a lodger or random sidekick, she's there with a specific goal and gets pulled into the whole detective thing.
>>215188484You're a faggot and you have shit taste in character and drama
>>215194665One of my most favourite screencaps ever, sums up the show perfectly. I felt fucking insulted watching this, but for some reason got talked into watching that miniseties where Tennant plays a guy who imprisoned a woman in his basement. It turned to sour shit like halfway so I gave up as it also had this super smart guy in the prison who acted like that
