I watched Star Wars 6 return of the jedi last night and realised something strange, the rebellion would have blown up the death star even if the emperor had turned luke to the dark side. The empire would have lost even in the empire's best case scenarioBit weird that, that the rebellion inevitably would had won, because they blew up the shield generator, yet it was the emperor's own plan for them to try to blow it up to trap them and destroy them thereLuke either joining the dark side or not, and Vader turning on the emperor and throwing him into the reactor core, all didn't really change a thing because regardless of what happened on the death star it was about to blow up in a few minutes anyway. Nothing that was happening in the throne room of the death star had any bearing on the land or space battles that resulted in the destruction of the death star and the end of the empireThe emperor's plan only makes sense if the shield generator was very strongly defended but it obviously wasn't at all. The rebels had a much stronger shield generator the film before and the empire blew that one up. An at-at blew that one up and an at-st blew this one up. Bit weird that uninhabited frozen shithole Hoth is that much more strongly defended than the second death starLuke could have died at any point after rescuing Han and the rebellion would have won. The emperor gave the rebellion the information about the shield generator to trap them and the rebellion blew up the shield generator easily and then wonI don't get it
>>215316944Maybe Palpatine was just wildly overconfident in his space army. He assumed they would win the battle regardless of the status of the shield generator. That’s the best I got. It’s pretty dumb.
>>215316944>I watched Star Wars 6 return of the jedi last nightSo did I, funnily enough. I watched the OTD83 version and it all looked very good. I didn't appreciate how much the Jedi Rocks song ruins the Jabba's Palace segment until watching a version with it removed – so much better.Anyway, as to your point: back when I was a kid watching The Special Editions, I had the same thought about the futility of the Emperor's attempt to turn Luke, and it struck me as odd. As an adult I see this problem as the result of conflicting interests at the production level. On the one hand Lucas wanted to conclude Luke's story with a dramatic showdown in the throne room, a story that requires actual stakes and a degree of seriousness; on the other hand Lucas also wanted to do the lighthearted forest adventure with merchandisable Ewoks defeating the stormtroopers who show up at the shield generator. In order to contrive a situation in which tiny Ewoks can defeat the Imperials, the Imperials have to be diminished to a lower level of competence than ever before. There also can't be too many of them. In turn this makes the Emperor look stupid and incompetent for leaving such an important matter as HIS OWN LIFE to such an ineffectual task force. This is especially strange given that the Emperor claims to have some powers of clairvoyance in his introductory scene ("Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen it.") I don't think Lucas intended to make the Emperor look like a dumbass who is undone by the Ewoks: it's more likely to be an unintended side-effect of the film's structure.
Luke's plan to rescue Han was already pretty retarded, relied on too many unknowns and involved too many pointless and dangerous sacrifices.
>>215317517Luke set that whole thing up just to see Leia getting slaved out and licked by Jabba, thereby satisfying Luke's cuck/degradation fetish. And he did it all in such a way that his true intentions remained hidden and his friends saw him as the hero of the situation.
If the Death Star was fully operational then why didn't it have its own shields?
This is a bit off-topic, but one thing that strikes me as odd about the film is the weird contrast of tone between Jabba's Palace and Ewok Forest. Jabba the Hutt is basically a rapist. He leers and licks his lips at Oola the dancing girl, a slave he keeps on a chain leash, and he throws her down the rancor pit when she resists his advances. Leia manages to survive this same state of slavery by allowing Jabba to lick her. If the film came out this year, people would think Jabba had been modelled on Weinstein. And isn't it weird that this material exists in the same film as the teddy bear species aimed at 5-year-olds?
bad writing
>>215316944>>215317417The emperor "for some reason" didn't die, remember?... As well as ultimately won the Star War through his Mary Sue puppet. So, it did indeed all go "as foreseen"; even if mere Force muggles could not see how his C. C. P.-like long game would play out.>it's all Lucas-approved canon
>>215316944because it's not a good movie
>>215318602what you telling me that somehow Palpatine returns?
>>215318669Spoiler
>>215318602>remember?I choose not to remember. Yoda trained me in Force meditation techniques that I use to clear away such memories.
>>215318458>aimed at 5-year-oldsThe films weren't that until the third act of episode VI, and only from the stand point of the toys to be sold thereafter.https://www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/hero-complex-blog/story/2010-08-12/did-star-wars-become-a-toy-story-producer-gary-kurtz-looks-back
The emperors plan was most likely to just jet after turning Luke. or leaving after killing him. Palpy didnt plan on dying there. its not like the entirety of the empire was singularly located within the new death star. The Empire is galactic ffs. They still have a million star destroyers, ships and subordinates and conquered worlds. Without Palpy they are severely compromised that would give the resistance the upper hand.
>>215318943>The emperors plan was most likely to just jet after turning Luke.Probably. But I could never see what Luke was supposed to be "turned" by in this situation. Attacking the Emperor? That was a perfectly Jedi thing to do under the circumstances – even if he appeared unarmed, which he wasn't as he always had his force lightning and whatnot. The other possibility, and what the Emperor seemed to want, was for Luke to kill Vader. But what then? Was he expected to kneel and be knighted a Darth for no good reason like that stupid scene in Revenge of the Sith? At least in that scene there was Palpatine's (totally unsubstantiated) promise of the power to save Padme's life. Luke wasn't being offered anything he cared about by the Emperor, and so nothing would seem to compel his loyalty in the hypothetical situation where he kills Vader.
>>215316944>I don't get itYeah no shit
>>215316944They’re films for little kids.
>>215317669Idk man, it got shields and it shoots lasers, seems pretty operational.
>Huge, moon-sized cannon that can blow up worlds>in a space battle it can only shoot one ship at a time and with long recharge periods between each shotWell how convenient!
>>215317052>>215316944As Sheev says: An entire legion of his best troops were waiting for the rebel commandos. And they had everyone captured until the teddybear natives attacked. Not accounting for the ewoks was his undoing, just like Sauron and the hobbits. Potter.
>>215319483>his best troops
>>215316944it's a reverse mordor/one ring situation>luke does nothing>rebels win>BUT - maybe vader and palpatine get away if he's not there>then the whole cycle starts over with a 3rd fucking deathstar>luke does something>rebels win>palpatine and vader don't get away>BUT - had luke failed, it's possible there's now 3 extremely dangerous sith that get away>then the whole cycle starts over but this time there's 2 darth vaders walking around wrecking shitthere was also always a distinct possibility that if luke got turned then he and vader would both sally out and pretty much crush the rebel ships singlehandedly. vader already killed all of luke's wingmen alone in the trench run for the first deathstar, so 2 of them together shooting down fighters and lightsaber-boarding the frigates would quickly have brought the entire rebellion to its kneesobviously though he had to confront vader and palpatine because if he didn't we wouldn't have a movie. beating the empire is the material victory but reconciling with his father and destroying palpatine was the moral victory
>>215329999
Weren't the Ewoks supposed to be Wookies? Their defeat would make more sense since the Wookies had more advanced weaponry like the bow caster.
I swear i read somewhere, maybe a novel, that palpy used the force to influence his forces in battle and that when he died they fell into disarray and that's when the tide turned. Fuck you all for making me even think about SW again. Dead franchise.
>>215316944Everything goes to shit when Palpatine stops paying attention, Luke duelling Vader and getting him interested in seeing one apprentice die to convert his son and create a another leads to Han and his captured crew getting out of the everyone is fucked situation they're in. The fleet stops being as effective in the battle where Ackbar and Lando are holding the line. Luke holding the Emperor's attn after he dismisses the rebellion and his connections spells it all out.
>>215316944yeah you're not supposed to think about these movies at all.
Forceshit transcends simple logic and common sense, same as Luke throwing down his sword instead of chopping off the Emperor's head
>>215320344When George wrote his stories plan, they were Wookiees, When he decided to shring down to make one movie, he wanted to have one Wookiee and made Chewbacca into one. When the movies reached the Wookiees part, he decided to change them to make it more novel and because Wookiees were originally the primitive species but it couldn't be anymore because of Chewie.
>>215317417>>215316944The Emperor only showed up to the Death Star to attempt to turn Luke. Darth Vader and more indirectly Sheev are the Empire’s strongest combatants, and both were tied up focusing on Luke, otherwise Vader would be killing Han down on Endor or shooting down Lando
