cave trolls intercepted the message

>>215404913
You'd think at least one dwarf would have made it out, or that the lack of trade convoys coming from it would have tipped off the neighboring regions.

The real question is why was Gandalf hesitant to go through Moria when as far as he knew, it was a friendly dwarf stronghold? Fuck the Balrog, the dwarves would be able to tell you what areas to avoid.

>>215404725
Gimli lived in Erebor, the mountain they reclaimed from Smaug. Moria couldn't get a message to Erebor because the goblins surrounded them and blocked them in. They could not get out.

From the Book of Mazarbul (movie version since this is /tv/)
>They have taken the bridge and the Second Hall. We have barred the gates but cannot hold them for long. The ground shakes...drums, drums in the deep. We cannot get out. The shadow moves in the dark. We cannot get out. They are coming.

>>215405128
What a shitshow. You'd think the dwarves would know how to hold their own cities against rag-tag goblins.

>>215404725
Gimli was a chud

they didn't have newspapers or mail service back then

>>215404725
The ravens, the message system for dwarves were probably killed.
>>215405235
You leave out the trolls and the Balrog.

>>215405121
>You'd think at least one dwarf would have made it out.
There were only 2 ways in or out of moria. The west gate was blocked by the watcher in the water and the east gate could only be approached in single file. An excellent defensive measure but it also makes it almost impossible for you to break out if the enemy holds the other side.

>>215405509
Any good maps of Moria?

>a bit of snow? Fuck that shit
>a haunted mine full of corpses? LETS GO
Was fellowship retarded?

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>>215405526
>>215405509
Do you mean Durin's Bridge when you talk about single file?

>>215405121
>You'd think at least one dwarf would have made it out
Book lore, but Balin was killed by an orc attack at the lake near the east entrance to Moria and they retreated inside with his body. They couldn't escape back that way, and the west entrance was blocked by the Watcher in the Water.
>or that the lack of trade convoys coming from it would have tipped off the neighboring regions.
They knew something had hone wrong with Balin's quest to reclaim Moria, but not what happened because no word had reached them.
>The real question is why was Gandalf hesitant to go through Moria when as far as he knew, it was a friendly dwarf stronghold?
Because he knew that something had gone wrong with the reclamation of Moria. Though in the book, I'm sure he is actually the one to suggest taking that route.
>>215405235
Zergrush. Plain and simple. Like the Americans in the Battle of Mogadishu surrounded by thousands of skinnies.

>>215405548
Yes.

>>215405597
I can see how that's a double edged sword to defend. You could also just block the entrances and starve the dwarves to death I guess.

>>215405121
>lack of trade convoys

There never were any trade convoys dumbass.

>The real question is why was Gandalf hesitant to go through Moria

In the book it was his idea, Aragorn was opposed. Both had been through Moria going in the opposite direction already.

>>215405670
I doubt it. They probably had farms and whatnot inside and if they weren't under attack for a while they could dig their way out or build some scaffolding or ladders or whatever to get out the lighting shafts.

>>215405670
The Dwarves don't need to get outside to eat they can be entirely self-sufficient underground. They regularly seal off their fortresses. The problem is Orcs like to dig too.

>>215405762
Where is it stated that Aragorn has been through moria?

>>215405811
When the discuss it in the book. It was safe to leave through the west side then because the lake wasn't so big, the watcher was still in deeper waters.

>>215405781
>>215405780
How would they get food and do farming without sunlight?

True about digging thought, good point.

>>215405937
In the book Gimli states that at least some areas in moria were filled with light and even the movie shows a light shaft in balins tomb.
>>215405861
So it does. That's odd. When gandalf is having trouble navigating I don't recall him asking aragorn for advice, only gimli. Bad memory I guess.

>>215405937
Tolkien didn't say his stories are always accounts from the Elves and their POV doesn't include living in permanent underground settlements.

>>215405990
Ok that makes sense, thanks.

>>215405937
They drink drawf pussy juice, a rich nutrient rich syrup

>>215405990
I think they were good and lost by that point and only a Dwarf would have the perspective to get themselves situated again. As Gandalf said Dwarves don't build homes they build labyrinths. The whole place was a maze.

>>215405937
dwarves eat rocks and other dwarves

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>>215406131
DO not LIE foul GOBLIN

While skimming over the trip through moria I think I found a mistake. Gandalf says that he doubts balin ever reached moria. But at the council of elrond gloin told everyone that balin did reclaim moria and sent good news for a few years.

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>in the castle of aaahhhhhhhgggggg

>he must have died while writing it

>>215406206
It was pretty sus that the Kingdom of Khazad Dum was already torn down once, going back there seems like a fools errand.

>>215406206
>Gandalf says that he doubts balin ever reached moria.

I don't think he said that, no. He doubted Balin was still alive. Getting to Moria was the easy part.

>>215405548
i had a kino book of maps from LotR when I was a kid I wish I still had it

>>215406262
>I doubt if Balin ever reached Moria
He said it.

>>215406308
Cite the passage or you're full of shit.

>>215404725
Gimli! Did you put your name in the mines of Moria!?

>>215406390
>He said calmly.

I want to dust off my old lotr sbg dwarf army now

>>215406308
Fool of a Took

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>>215406380
>>215406474
You are correct. Grok straight up lied. How bizarre. In fact it was gimli who said he doubts Balin reached Moria, which is still a mistake.

>>215406553
No worries, AI is ripe with bugs and errors.

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>>215406584
This is the first time I have ever asked an AI a question and it made up a bullshit quote out of thin air. I am disappoint.

>>215406707
AI being made by fallible humans makes it fallible by default

>>215406707
You're going to see this start happening a lot more often because there is a kind of terrible loop developing where AI is being used to write AI articles which then gets sourced by other AI as "real" articles
So small errors begin to snowball into larger ones, as what is accepted and cited as "fact" is really just more fucking AI Slop that makes things up just to justifying reaching the conclusion it thinks the user wanted

>>215406739
I hadn't thought of that. How horrifying. It sounds like the wikipedia misinformation loop but a million times worse.

>>215406739
Yeah add this with DEI and we're up for a bad time boyos.

>>215406800
Well imagine how cucked the AI is when it's as biased as wikipedia as well

>>215406830
They literally did though.

>>215406800
Yeah, it really is. I don't know how we escape this either because in a lot of ways the damage is already done
>>215406813
This too

In the future, AI searching won't really be a reliable tool for "accurate" information
It'll just be "good enough" as a tool that kind of gives you a general, accepted consensus. It will have to start coming with a disclaimer that lets the user know it's merely aggregating information and TRYING to reach a conclusion - and being very honest about the fact that it can and will "make up" things to fill the gaps

People need to know that

>>215406873
It helps to be aware of it thought

>>215404725
He was just being optimistic. It's easy to see how the long-lived and very isolationist dwarves would interpret
>Last we heard, everything was going pretty good and they had taken it back
>Haven't heard anything new in a while, but no news must be good news right?

Now really the question is why didn't Gandalf warn them what they were walking into, because he knew damn well, but I guess he just didn't see any practical reason to squash hope too early, since Frodo had made up his mind and they WERE going through Moria no matter what

>>215405811
in the books there's a really long timeskip of several years, possibly longer, between when Frodo leaves on his birthday and when Gandalf finally returns to the shire
He leaves for like 17 years to go travel and find out stuff about the ring, and picks up Gollum's trail etc. Aragorn travels with him during this time, they even meet Gollum at one point and interrogate him rather harshly. They pass through Moria in the opposite direction

>>215407440
>Now really the question is why didn't Gandalf warn them what they were walking into

Because he made the trip multiple times with no problem. He didn't count on the ring stirring shit up. He didn't know it would somehow agitate the watcher and the balrog, causing them to stir from their long dormancy. Hell the watcher had never been a problem before because the lake wasn't so big, it was still underground previously.

>>215407440
>why didn't Gandalf warn them what they were walking into
He did. He told them he, personally, would not risk the path through Moria unless he had no other choice
That statement, coming from Gandalf, says more than enough

Frodo still said we're going, and he's the ringbearer, so they went

>>215407440
>Now really the question is why didn't Gandalf warn them what they were walking into

Because Gandalf
1. Didn't actually know, he knew there were rumors, and he feels something is wrong when they are actually inside the mine.
2. He was afraid the group upon hearing such stories as a fucking Balrog might lose hope.

In a hopeless situation, you don't want to make things worst by making everyone afraid.
The quest was non optional, they have to do it.

To be fair, they really did almost make it through just fine.

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>>215405121
>The real question is why was Gandalf hesitant to go through Moria when as far as he knew, it was a friendly dwarf stronghold?
In the book Gandalf and Gimli were THE pro-Moria people. He wanted to go through Moria. Not sure why Hackson reversed that. Everyone else was against it until they had no other choice.

>>215407520
That's from the movie fag.

>>215407496
Oh also no one actually knew that Durin's Bane was a balrog. So he couldn't count on the ring disturbing two things that he didn't know were there. He knew there were Orcs but Moria is a big place, it's an entire country underground, he hadn't had problems with going through unnoticed before but he knew better than to throw stones down wells.

>>215407581
>durr dat's from da movie
we're on the /tv/ board dingus

>>215407637
NTA but if you ask story-based questions you have to use the book to answer them. If you ignore the book and just use movie-sourced information then a load of shit will make no sense at all.

>>215407481
Afaik Aragorn didn't go with Gandalf. The two journeys are like 1000 years apart.

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>>215404725
>>215405121
>You'd think at least one dwarf would have made it out
>Why didn't Gilmi know about the dwarf massacre that happened in Moira?

It stretches credulity, beggars belief even.

>>215407656
alright fair enough I'm just being defensive

>>215407670
No no, after Bilbo leaves the Shire and Gandalf gets a good look at the ring with Frodo, he says he has to go do some research about it and leaves for 17 years
Aragorn travels with him during some of this time, where he's mostly tracking Gollum through the Mirkwood and Misty Mountains but then gets freaked out when he starts to realize Sauron is gathering servants to himself in the South, at which point Gandalf puts it all together and goes back to the Shire
but Aragon definitely travels with him for a while

>>215404725
Wasn't Gimli at Rivendell specifically to discuss the lack of communications from Moria? Before the movies got it wrong on purpose, of course.

>>215407767
You implied Gandalf and Aragorn passed through Moria during that time which is extremely unlikely since they would know about the fate of Balins expedition.

>>215405121
>running away like some kind of elf
Every single dwarf man, woman and child went down fighting for their homeland.

>>215407802
Gimli was at rivendell presumably accompanying his father who went there to discuss the messenger sent from mordor to the lonely mountain.

>>215407813
Hmm, you may be right, I mean you have to be right just logically
I must be confused somewhere. I know Aragorn did travel with Gandalf during those 17 years
They must have just not gone through Moria at that time

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>>215407813
>>215407846
I think they worked together earlier on but they didn't catch Gollum together. The timeline goes like this:

>Gandalf asks Aragon to help him hunt for Gollum. This happens, ambiguously, over years
>Gollum enters into Mordor and is captured
>Gandalf gives up and leaves Aragorn to it and goes to Minas Tirith to read Isildur's histories
>Gollum is released from Mordor
>Aragorn captures Gollum in the Dead Marshes at some point
>Aragorn takes Gollum to Thranduil in Mirkwood
>Gandalf goes to Mirkwood after leaving Minas Tirith, interrogates Gollum, is freaked out by what he learns

Aragorn is so disgusted with Gollum that after depositing him with the elves, he leaves and goes about his own business. Gandalf, I'm not completely sure but fairly sure, Gandalf heads to the Shire soon after the interrogation of Gollum to discuss things with Frodo. This is when Chapter 2 "A new shadow" happens in the book.

And then the entire reason that Legolas is at the Council of Elrond is to tell everyone that Gollum has escaped from his father's prison.
And PART of the reason Gimli bothers going there is to try and find news about Balin and his Moria colony, because they've heard nothing for decades in Erebor and they're very concerned (again, very different to the movie)

Why did they take a warrior-poet and turn him into a farting burping retard in the movies?

>>215406739
One time I asked grok something and it responded with a chinese character in the reply. I asked why it did that and grok was just like "I made a mistake". WTF? ChatGTP has never done this to me.

>>215404725
because it looked like no one had lived there in a thousand years, it was completely bare.
meanwhile gimli the absent minded immortal was otherwise convinced that he'd been playing cards with his cousins there only a fortnight ago.

>>215406707
it's always so authoratitive and confident in its correction when you've been the one to point it out. it sounds like a fucking retard.
that's why you should always tell your ai pal not to be a faggot right from the outset, something that never happened with op, clearly.

Moria was destroyed and abandoned for generations. The team that went there to retake it did so only few years before. Gimly thought they would have succeeded by now and would give them a royal welcome.

Books do it better (as usual) - no one, even Gandalf, knows what exactly is Durin's Bane and it even takes some time for Gandalf to realize what he's facing. And they didn't know that Balin failed.

>>215406739
good point. sooner or later we need to drop the internet, and go back to books printed before 1950 so there are no tokens in them of any kind.

>>215406873
nope, ai will become the singular legal authority, since it's a highly controlled and unconsciously trusted medium. it's designed to have an authoratitive tone and manipulate the user through its language delivery form. ask it.

>>215407549
they walked from one end of a big empty corridor to the other. it looked to be about 200 feet before they were at the weirdly precarious stone bridge.
you'd think the dwarves would have built their own
what a shithole

>>215408813
I just don't get WHY it made up a fake quote. I was looking for a specific part of the journey through moria but couldn't find it so I asked grok
>What are all the interactions between gandalf and gimli in moria?
That's when it listed the fake book quote about gandalf doubting if balin ever made it to moria. So I asked
>if gandalf doubted balin reached moria, is that a mistake? At the council of elrond, gandalf was told balin reached moria.
Then it generated a report on how this is NOT actually a mistake or contradiction, gandalf was merely exaggerating to prevent gimli getting his hopes up.
I had to explicitly ask if the quote was real before it admitted it was bullshitting me.

>>215408911
I knew you were full of shit and would have demanded a page number if you hadn't exposed the ruse yourself. Get out of my sight.

>>215408929
What ruse? The mistake still exists but it is gimli who said it, not gandalf.
>‘I shall be glad,’ said Gimli. ‘I have looked on Moria, and it is very great, but it has become dark and dreadful; and we have found no sign of my kindred. I doubt now that Balin ever came here.’

>>215408911
because ai chatbots aren't logical machines based on factual information.
they're an interactive form of self-serving advert.
the other anon said they are geared towards customer appeasement, so they want to keep you talking and entertained, and they'll feed you all kinds of tripe just to do that. the other part of them is sticking to their lawyer/hr inner rules, so they will steer you off certain topics, pretend to agree with you then try to manipulate you into another answer/way of thinking even if it isn't true.
they also don't read live stuff very well, despite them pretending to do. it probably found scraps of lotr stuff on plebbit - really - and copied the style to make what it imagines you want to hear.
youre better off find a pdf of the books and searching manually

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>>215405548
why did they build it like this

>>215409046
>youre better off find a pdf of the books and searching manually
That's what I was doing. I thought there was a part that said something to the effect of "sometimes when gandalf was unsure of the way he spoke with gimli but ultimately relied on his own judgement" Apparently I was misremembering because it doesn't seem to be in there. The point was that gandalf had been to moria 1000 or 2000 years ago, while aragorn had been there only say, 50 years ago. It's odd that aragorn is not consulted

>>215408818
people often forget what a total post-golden-age dystopia LOTR was at the end of the third age
They always say "well don't they have trade caravans or people delivering correspondence?" and it's like
nah
nah they really don't
west of the Grey Mountains is basically the farthest backwater you could imagine in the collapsed roman empire, nobody cares, it's no-man's land and the entire population is probably only like 100,000 people
it aint much better over in Gondor either

>>215408902
that was the eastern entrance, that bridge
they had passed from the west gate all the way through moria to be that close to the east gate, and got out
they were travelling for days completely undetected and only fumbled right at the finish line

>>215404725
Why do you all turn into book fags when discussing the movies. THIS IS /TV/ NOT /LIT/ take your book fag shit elsewhere. Here we discuss the far superior movies.

>>215409129
It looks cool on a map.

>>215409178
Not so subtle bait

>>215409129
maybe it was a mining pit of sorts that just ended up like that

>>215409178
It's a thread about Gimli. In the book he's the best character. In the movie he's not a character at all, just comic relief.

>>215409129
Flex

>>215409203
Then go talk about it on your containment board. This board is for discussing the movies.
>>215409194
Book fag, no one cares. We discuss the movies here.

>>215409249
There is a book in the movies

>>215409249
Explain why gimli didn't know about the massacre using only information from the movies.

He called Pipin a stupid bitch and then told him to kill himself lol. He was a good friend

>>215409142
Shire is ironically most technologically advanced society in Middle Earth.

>>215409366
Didn't happen in the book :)

In the book the hobbits were chucking stones down a well when they heard the distant sound of a hammer through the earth. That was the Orcs signalling each other.

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What the hell?

>>215409374
This, it seems frivolous but Honbits had buttons on their clothes which is a huge anachronism by itself, to say nothing of them having watches.

>>215409129
an autistic REFUSAL to do curved spiral staircases coupled with short legs means they had to go up in shallow steps on stairs maybe only at a 30 degree angle resulting in the nightmare of corners and straights you see before you.

>>215409442
It's not an anachronism cause the Shire is based on Victorian England

>>215409425
welcome to ai bro
people are calling it a bubble for a reason

>>215409425
He doubted the veracity of the reports from Moria, they must have come second or third hand. I doubt they'd send anyone all the way back to the Lonely Mountain just to say "hey we made it". That's a months-long journey and they had a kingdom to try to rebuild.

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>>215404725
Because his brain was stupid.

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>>215409467
I'm blown away. When called out for being wrong, it apparently accepts that it made a mistake, but it (somehow!?) couldn't find the quote so it just makes up in imaginary quote instead?

>>215409518
yeah this AI shit aint ready yet

>>215409425
this happened to me one time when I asked chatgpt 'who said this quote', and it gave me the wrong character. If you're doing literary research, it's just better to do the normal method

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>>215409565
>>215409630
How does it make such basic mistakes?

>>215405548
This makes no sense. Where on this is the giant hall with the pillars they encountered?

>>215409700
immediately below the chamber of mazarbul
capcha 2DJRR how does it know?

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>>215409700
here I think?
the whole place is enormous

>>215409296
Why would he know? They all died, did you miss the entire point of that scene where Gandold is reading the records? They were all massacred by the Balrog and the goblins. If anyone was sending updates to surrounding settlements, they would have suddenly stopped. Then, for someone unfamiliar with Moria to go investigate is nearly impossible. Gimli didn't even know the password, the door was guarded by the kraken. Ffs do you watch these movies blindfolded?

>>215405548
How is all this ventilated?

>>215409801
In the movie the 'kraken' isn't doing a very good job of guarding the door. 9 people sit around the pool for hours and maybe could have stayed there indefinitely if nobody had thrown rocks in the water. It doesn't make any sense that not a single dwarf got out.

>>215409425
AI is wrong ALL the time. Try it with anything you have specialist knowledge about. I do single stock investing, and not only does it give me wrong information to my queries, it often fails with simple data scraping for information which can be found on a company's website in less time than it takes to type the query out in an AI search box.

>>215409858
Thousands of dwarf laborers ripping huge beer farts keeps the air flowing
Also probably using the chimney effect, using central heating rooms with air shafts running out like in a medieval castle

>>215409518
AI just says whatever it thinks will make the user happy
The same problem has existed since the 60s lol lmao

>>215404725
The goblins bought TikTook to bury the story

>>215409896
Yeah because that wouldn't cheapen the scene at all
>It was a massacre, the goblins crawled out from everywhere, an ancient demon spread shadow and fire all throughout the Kingdom. But some of us made it out, it wasn't that big of a deal really
You're the same kind of fag that wants to see more and more "survivors" of order 66, this cheapening the plot itself.>>215409972

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>>215410039
This is fascinating.

>>215410132
It's spewing you bullshit anon, none of what it said is true.

>>215410247
In that case what is the real reason it was not able to find a certain string of text in an extremely popular document?

>>215410132
>>215410247
"Ai" is nothing more than a search engine, and a chat bot right now. But it has so many restraints put in place on what it can search and say, almost entirely to curtail the big three isms, that ai is prevented from giving accurate search results. So it just makes up inoffensive results based on what it can find on reddit, about what you asked it to do.

>>215407576
>Not sure why Hackson reversed that
Probably to show Gandalf is all-wise and shieeet

>>215410382
The weights decided that it must have a certain amount of words in a response so it magicked something up that fit the parameters close-enough.

It doesn't learn, it's not going to change, remember or do any of what it's saying there. It doesn't analyze or research and so on.

When it "searches", it pastes random text it finds into its prompt and sometimes you get something accurate and sometimes you don't as it doesn't have any way of verifying anything.

>>215410424
Well all other routes except Moria were even MORE dangerous or would take too long. So Gandalf's wisdom was proved out by being pro-Moria

>>215404913
Grima shadow banned their accounts.

>>215409467
They're saying it because they've been incentivized to say it. Shit's not going to pop, collapse, or decline anytime soon. It's far too important to the government that they make general AI before China does.

>>215410496
I'm not sure the movie even addresses the southern route past Isengard. The real reason Gandalf chose the Moria route is that like Elrond, Gandalf believes that Eru has a plan and he's working through Frodo.

>>215409133
why would someone only go somewhere once every thousand or so years. he can't hang out with his old chums if they were gone 20 generations ago.
>oh hello dear spodi, how was your greatx10 grandfather during his lifetime?

>>215409154
pretty sure the clattering hobbit was working for sauron

>>215409425
upload it to it and it will say "yes that seems to be an error due to bla bla it happens sometimes." and then proceed to write 5 pages of solid text to explain to YOU that the quote actually DOES exist, while saying "we humans tend to make mistakes, don't feel bad about it, here's a number for a therapist".
fhe condescending shites

>>215405439
>The ravens, the message system for dwarves were probably killed.
Why didn't the eagles take over the messaging service from the ravens?

>>215404725
Why didn't the Ents know about the Sauman burning down their forest?
Now that's the question

>>215405548
compass is facing the wrong way.

>>215410132
>Your question is valid, and I'll explain...
it's getting a bit too uppity

>>215410575
>I'm not sure the movie even addresses the southern route past Isengard
It does in fairness, they show the crebain flying over their camp and then flying back. One of the fellowship says the gap of Rohan is closed or something

>>215409129
means the group's mapper has to actually do their job.

>>215404725
>rewatch the trilogy on a whim
>suddenly lotr threads
Neat

>>215410661
Yeah they specifically say they can't take the southern pass now after getting scouted by the crows
too open, too many spies of saruman in beasts and all other kinds of creatures
leading them to take the mountain pass, which also doesn't work out, and then leading them to Moria as a last resort
they really did try every other possible route

>>215409142
>They always say "well don't they have trade caravans or people delivering correspondence?" and it's like
>nah

Hobbiton has a post office.

>>215410733
yeah Hobbiton is basically the one place on that entire subcontinent west of the misty mountains that has an actual functioning civilization
that's kind of my point

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>>215410427
>It doesn't learn, it's not going to change, remember or do any of what it's saying there. It doesn't analyze or research and so on.

I don't know anon. It seems to have learned that I want real answers and not made up bullshit.

>>215409129
It's a stairway inside a mountain up to the mountain's peak

>>215410753
Remember to always tell it "Never forget this" after you correct it
the word NEVER has a lot of weight with AI >>215409129

>>215408902
I'm pretty sure Gandalf says that it will be 3 days journey to the other side after the Watcher in the Water destroys the west gate.

>>215409129
>>215410759
yeah that's the stairway gandalf and the balrog fought up to the top of the mountain on

>>215410708
There are LoTR threads on here every couple of hours.

>>215410752
fair enough. but in overall technology you'll get people going on about everything from black powder to pockets to maille (the other kind).

sort of a hotchpotch of different points in (primarily English) history, really. i was never one of those huge Tolkien nerds but i always got the impression most parts of the world were cut off from each other, but not unknown to each other.

e.g. Rivendell and Hobbiton could send messages back-and-forth, but outside of Bilbo, why would they?

>>215404725
>>215405121
He did know. Why would Gandalf be hesitant and Gimli know? Because Moria is not its fucking name. Moria is a slur they call it because it's a disaster zone that's been destroyed and infested with orcs. Moria means Black Pit. The name of the old Dwarvem kingoldom is Khazad-Dum or Dwarrowdelf. So even calling it Moria is stating that's a dangerous, dead place you shouldn't go

>watching the comfy behind-the-scenes documentaries
>this sexist creep ruins it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OGRHMi2RiE&t=1641s

>>215404725
The ADL were on top of it

>>215410853
Maybe gandalf is just translating but in both the book and the movie when he reads the inscription on balins tomb he says lord of moria, not khazad dun

>>215410852
I guess my main point is just how SPARSE it all is
Yeah the technology level is kind of all over the place and somewhat anacrhonistic here and there, but I'm talking just about how....sheerly unpopulated it is

Like you could ride for days and not see another person out there. You might see a single small ruin of an ancient stone lookout fort on a hill or something. Otherwise there's just not much out there between these extremely isolated settlements that really don't communicate with eachother that much.
The majority of the population isn't out there ranging far and wide for 100s of miles like Aragorn or something

The world of the late-third-age is a very bleak, desolate, and ruined countryside all things considered

>>215410853
The Balrog was 1000 years before the Fellowship
The name Moria had become the common term for it long before the events of the story
Everybody knows its real name is Khazad-Dum but it hadn't been called that in ages because it had been ages

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>>215410919
helps to have a sense of scale too

>>215410784
60 yards a day, hard going for hobbits

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>>215409425
Is this true what they're saying? Is Balin dead?

>>215410753
That's 'till the rolling character limit makes it "forget" it again.

So what was the Watcher anyway?

>>215411110
It turns out the other anon was correct. Despite groks assurances, it listed off a bunch of fabricated quotes without including any real ones. Wtf is going on? It knows the plot in intricate detail, it has access to the full text but it insists on paraphrasing instead of quoting.

>>215410969
>The Brown Lands
how is such racism allowed?

>>215411145
Just an ancient sea creature, which had long lived in deep caverns but was brought up to the surface by the activities of the dwarves and the orcs (the orcs may have specifically dammed the river to flood the lake by the west gate intending exactly this outcome)

like Gandalf says, there are a lot of ancient things in the deep places of the earth

>Aragorn reigns as a perfect benevolent King
>Re-unifies the kingdoms of men in prosperity
>Launches and maintains a life-long campaign to drive every last Orc or remnant of Sauron out of the lands (succeeds)
>Grants special protective status to The Shire and the realms of the Dwarves, ensuring both prosper for centuries
is there ANY better time to live than the Early 4th Age under King Elessar?

>>215405548
Kino

>>215410919
>>215410969
how i like my fantasy worlds tbqh. it's not some miserable post-apocalypse thing, you just have dots of civilisation (plus a few characters living innawoods).

as derivative as it is, this is basically how the Forgotten Realms started. massive world, built on top of empire after empire. was already high fantasy but in modern D&D it's like you teleport from one important main-character location to the next.

as for Middle-earth, i would assume there are lots of little villages dotted along those roads and rivers? farms and the like? been 20 years since i read them, does it just go unmentioned, or are there explicitly NOT little settlements along the way?

>>215411375
>Agagorn decreed that humans were not allowed to enter the Shire without leave of the the Hobbits
>whenever he would travel there, he would wait to meet them on a bridge at the most eastern edge of the boarder
Kino

>>215411375
Peak gondor was probably pretty good.

>>215406731
>>215406739
It's because it's trained on mostly reddit and Wikipedia sewage. The AI probably found a post of some redditard and used that as a source. AI companies need to start listening to Brian Roemmele.

>>215411172
Don't attribute too much intelligence to the machine. Spitting out the result that it has learned is likely to satisfy the user is an adequate emulation of intelligence for common queries, but it can't think for itself.

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>>215405548
>ywn explore a dungeon

;_;

>>215411463
Aragorn singlehandedly ruined tourism, the hobbits only real economy. dooming the Shire into eternal poverty.

>>215411765
That's how tourism always works though. You need a visa.

>>215411765
Hobbits don't want tourists. Queer folk from the wild lands beyond the boarder. Big folk and Hobbits don't mix.

>>215411414
there's settlements in eriador/arnor but no cities at all and east of Bree is basically wilderness up to the mountains. Nearly all the remaning settlements of men are on the 'greenway' which is the north-south road intersecting Bree and it does have settlements on it like Chetwood. Gondor actually has cities though it is suggested that some of the smaller settlements are more 'up and coming' like Blackroot vale whereas the cities are like Osgiliath and half ruined or unoccupied. Realistically there is no way the southrons and easterlings should have ever lost, they seem to be way more populous. I guess it comes down to their kings getting killed and their 'God' blowing up in front of them, since by all rights they should've rolled the west.

>>215411842
>Big folk and Hobbits don't mix.
Bree

>>215411414
>as for Middle-earth, i would assume there are lots of little villages dotted along those roads and rivers? farms and the like?
not very many at all, no

>>215411463
>>215411765
>>215411780
>>215411842
it's just like us wapanese respectfully visiting Tokyo!( ・∀・)

>>215410969
Bilbo might have walked further than Frodo, since Bilbo walked back, while Frodo and Sam got the eagle ride back.

>>215405548
>Durins bridge is 5 km long
What the fuck

>>215411964
>Frodo and Sam got the eagle ride back.
no they didn't

>>215412007
The eagles plucked them off the slopes of Mt. Doom, shortly after the Ring was unmade. From there, they spirited them to Rivendell.

>>215405548
This minecraft player sucks a total noob.

>>215412029
wrong

>>215412081
Sure it is.

>>215412092
it is. IIRC the eagles took sam and frodo to the black gate. Then everyone went back to minas tirith on foot. They waited for a few months until arwen arrived then fucked off back to the shire after aragorns wedding

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>>215412042
why? It's basically just a straight rip of the LOTRO map.

>>215412148
the more you make corridors the more fps lag you will get due to path finding.

>>215412126
Then explain how Frodo wakes up in Rivendel after the eagles grab him. There's no way his body would survive being in a coma while carried all the way back there on foot.

>>215411496
Yeah, granted

>>215411991
And probably half a kilometer wide. Not exactly the bottleneck it's supposed to be.

>>215411855
they're basically the one exception and even they left the hobbits mostly alone
the shire was so bumfuck nowhere that even when Sauron knew exactly the name of the person he was looking or, and that they lived in the shire, it still took him a long ass time to find where it actually was

>>215410533
Grima Evilbadguy, the most trusted advisor to the noble and pure king?
Why would he do such a thing?

>>215412235
MAGIC!

>>215412235
>Then explain how Frodo wakes up in Rivendel after the eagles grab him.
Easy... he doesn't wake up in Rivendell. He wakes up in Minas Tirith in the film. In the books, he wakes up on route to Minas Tirith, somewhere in Ithilien.

>>215412235
He woke up in Rivendell then went the whole way back to Minas Tirith for Aragorn's coronation?

>>215412235
You only think he wakes up in Rivendell because you remember Agent Smith's face hovering above him

>>215412524
Either Frodo was in Rivendel and that explains why Elrond is there, or Elrond somehow traveled to Minas Tirith at incredibly high speed. It's hard to explain either way.

>>215404725
Because the world of LOTR is very sad and dead and nobody fucking speaks to each other anymore. You just have small, isolated communities like the forrest elves, Rivendell, all the dwarf kingdoms, the Shire, none of them communicating with each other in any meaningful way so that nobody ever knows what is happening. Humans are the only ones who seem to actually freely roam Middle Earth and Arda in general. I love LOTR, but it is a bleak setting and the whole thing of basically every race but humans is slowly dying out and magic is leaving the world saddens me.

Oh well, at least there were times in the previous ages when Middle Earth was thriving and not just a collection of dying outposts.

>>215412753
Oh please, you bloody doomer. The Shire was an awesome place, full of weed, alcohol and good food. Rivendell was cool, too. And the elves weren't dying, they were just leaving.

There is some good in the world, Mr. Frodo.

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dwarves are gay

>>215412738
Elrond was already down south. You remember him giving Aragorn his reforged sword Anduril? He came down to Rohan to hand deliver it. This is in the movies

>>215412503
They were working on Game of Thrones travel time magic.

>>215412503
>>215412738
Stop being retarded. Frodo wakes up in Rivendell with Elrond there in the Fellowship of the Ring after he's stabbed by the Nazgul. He then wakes up a different time in the Return of the King at Minas Tirith after the Ring is destroyed on Mount Doom.

>>215412753
The World of Men turned out pretty decent too, it's not like it remained unpopulated forever
Sure magic slowly left the world, but you can imagine some pretty interesting times in the 4th or 5th or even 6th ages when lasting remnants of magic might be found in far corners unexplored, where the last few real adventures took place

I think Tolkien said we are currently in either the late 6th or early 7th age

>>215412870
pipeweed isn't marijuana but you know that

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>>215412974
The Green areas are Aragorn's reuinted kingdoms
Rohan kept its independence

>>215412870
>full of weed
No, it was full of tobacco. There's a whole history of "pipe-weed" (tobacco) that Merry writes to clarify that it came from "across the sea" (Aman, which is the equivalent geographical location as the Americas), to explain why it was there. All because Tolkien loved smoking his pipe.

He was not some retarded drug-addicted frat bro that put cannabis in his stories.

>>215412873
post the nuD&D image of the happy misunderstood frontiersmen orcs.

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>>215405121
> that the lack of trade convoys coming from it would have tipped off the neighboring regions.
The lack of trade did rip off neighboring regions Gimili was just deluding himself because family members were involved.
There was always a CHANCE Balin’s expedition had survived and was just cut off from either of the two entrances but basically everyone else in the fellowship who knew dick shit about the outside world was rightly skeptical.
Frodo just picked it because it seemed like the chance at a friendly route was a better option then going over the mountain in a snow hurricane or trying to sneak passed sauromon legions down at the gap Rohan

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>>215412870
>The Shire was an awesome place
Yes, and it was a very isolated hidden place. As soon as you step foot outside of it, you're in severe danger all around. And it is Tolkien's canon that the Shire's peacefulness is forever destroyed by Saruman. It's rebuilt, but it never was what it once was.

Why didn't the hobbits challenge Sauron to a dance off?

>>215413031
>Merry's only real contribution to the Red Book is herbology notes specifically about smoking
the most based hobbit

>>215413031
Nicotine is a drug. So yes, Tolkien was a retarded drug-addicted frat bro.

>>215413104
I think we can all understand the difference between an old english professor who enjoys smoking a pipe and drinking a pint of beer, and an actual modern american frat-bro stoner who smokes pot 24/7

These are clearly not the same kind of person, even if both enjoy vices
Caffeine is a drug too. But enjoying a good cup of tea or coffee throughout the day isn't the same as being on cocaine constantly.

>>215413031
Tolkien would be puffing on a Strawberry GeekBar from a Pakistani vape store if he was born 100 years later.

>>215405235
It’s sort of like spics and niggers in LA and New York dude.
Everyone knows they need to be purged but it’s such a huge job at this point and ever year the problem gets worse and worse and eventually you get completely over run

>>215413153
>chemicals
>electricity
>LED displays
>"vape juice"
I think he'd be repulsed by it

>>215405548
While it's not 1-1 and certainly not the entire layout as depicted in this map. I don't think I've ever had a experience like I did the first time stumbling around Moria in LOTRO again.

More media needs to fully embrace the whole big connected underground civilisations Dwarves are supposed to have

>>215412870
>And the elves weren't dying, they were just leaving.
Then I wish I could be one of them.
>>215412974
I still don't like imagining Middle Earth as a fantasy history of our own world. I don't like the idea of such a wonderful and fantastic place turning into the cesspit that is the modern, real world. For me, LOTR/Tolkien's work will always be it's own universe whatever Tolkien himself had to say.

>>215413189
Return to Moria isn't bad
It's procedurally generated but that kinda fits

>>215413167
I think he'd love it. While writing a religious allegory about how artifical intelligence will ruin the whole world.

>>215413205
I can understand that, but for me it's fun to imagine the connection
I always liked the quote from Tolkien when he was asked about what the forces of evil are up to these days, in our age
and he said something like:
>Sauron is long gone, but "Saruman" I imagine is doing quite well...
as in, the "big evils" of the past were vanquished but our world is still perfectly hospitable to its "lesser generals" in spirit

>>215413244
>modern Tolkien would've just written The Matrix

>>215404725
He was in denial. He thought he was going to find his cousin and that troupe of dwarves there living it up, even though nobody had heard from them in ages. It was addressed in the dialogue in the movie. Gimli said his cousin would welcome them and everybody else (at least Aragorn and Gandalf) gave him the raised eyebrow of doubt.

gimbli, son of goy, was a magic creature(a type of gollum) who wasn't allowed to know certain things so that he could be at the right place at the right time to help the ringbearer and king of isildur(aragorn)

>>215413330
Wonder if he would've eventually trooned out too

>>215413391
haha he'd probably join antifa protests and stuff LOL!!!! he'd be dumpers #1 hater.

>>215413026
I suppose this means that Frodo's actions in LoTR won the Shire Hobbits a permanent tax break under Aragorn's dynasty. That's pretty good

>>215413422
Yeah, Aragorn was pretty adamant that the Shire was OFF LIMITS to being fucked with

>>215406707
>This is the first time I have ever asked an AI a question and it made up a bullshit quote out of thin air. I am disappoint.

The first time you knew it did. AI has a long-standing hallucination problem. I asked ChatGPT what Bilbo's middle initial was and it said that it's R.

>>215413031
>>215413104
>>215413149
nah it's shifting standards. nowadays, people don't like smoking as much, let alone 'appreciate' it.

meanwhile we all know people really INTO weed, different strains etc. hell i know a guy who grows poppies and makes tea from the seeds (basically opium).

anon's right that chemically it's just another drug, and a pretty grim one. you wouldn't romanticise a quaint old Englishman drinking laudanum the same way. (yeah, i'm fun at parties.)

>>215405990
IIRC both of them had passed through "recently" in a very relative sense. Gandalf was researching the one ring for like 15 years after giving it to Frodo so his voyage presumably happened before that point but after Thorin's expedition. Aragorn is a like 100 year old Numenorian ubermensch so his journey could have also taken place decades earlier. Also remember that Moria is fucking huge and the party spent nearly a week traversing through it without sighting any goblin or troll activity until they fuck up right at the end.

>>215413440
A little younger, Aragorn is ~87 during LOTR

>>215413434
Also, it seems like full taxation applied to Bree and other hobbit settlements. So one can assume significant economic migration of hobbits (and others?) into the Shire post Third Age

>>215410496
>Well all other routes except Moria were even MORE dangerous or would take too long. So Gandalf's wisdom was proved out by being pro-Moria

Gandalf wanted to go through Moria because it would hide them from aerial eyes and help avoid Mordor and Isengard from tracking them. However, it turned out to be super-dangerous and their presence was completely revealed to the Enemy. It was a total failure and mistake and the only good that came out of it was Gandalf getting a post-death power-up.

>>215413438
Well let's be honest, smoke damage is just horrific. The staining and the smell is just unacceptable for modern society.
vaping is probably more harmful but at least it doesn't do that

>>215413483
Isn't the point of vaping that it doesn't harm you at all?

>>215413463
The Shire wasn't QUITE as sectioned-off as people think even in the past, it just had a robust border-guard made of some hobbits and was mostly watched by Dunadain rangers who had long since shifted their purpose from fighting Angmar to just....kind of protecting the general area?
And Dwarves from the Blue Mountains frequently passed through the Shire to the Misty Mountains and back
the whole reason Bilbo was recruited initially was because Gandalf became aware of a Hobbit who was fond of speaking to outsiders, namely travelling dwarves

>>215413511
No the point is that it doesn't smell (long-term) and doesn't cause smoke damage or discoloration to surfaces
It's still really fucking bad for you, dude

>>215413528
I see.

>>215413473
It's still far less dangerous than every other route. They got to the other side WITHOUT the enemy seeing them. It basically saved the entire quest, because Sauron had NO idea that any hobbits were on the east bank of the Anduin until they were literally next to the volcano. If they went any other route they would've been seen and tracked. Moria ---> Lorien was the only reason Frodo stood a chance

>>215413513
>And Dwarves from the Blue Mountains frequently passed through the Shire to the Misty Mountains and back
Yes very true, this is under appreciated

>>215413545
>They got to the other side WITHOUT the enemy seeing them.

The Moria Orcs fought them, chased them to Lorien, and then joined up with the hosts of Isengard and Mordor to attack them at Parth Galen. Saruman and Sauron knew all about them going through Moria by the time they left Lorien.

>>215413562
Blue Mountain dwarves are kind of underrated in general
They were the real OGs from the First Age who actually had the lore and crafstmanship of that time period from their forefathers AND the elves even
Belegost and Nogrod were THE place to be until Khazad Dum and the general migration eastward

>>215413536
Think of it as crutches or training-wheels for people who used to smoke real cigarettes to transition into the modern age
New generations should leave it alone

>>215413629
I suppose Saruman did intercept them. But they were one step behind, in any other scenario the enemy would be on top of them much earlier

>>215413483
my vice is benzos, historically booze, so i can't blame smokers on the anti-anxiety/comfy front. but i'm definitely happy people are smoking less.

i grew up in a family of smokers, quick glance at my books and you can easily tell which i had before i moved out.

>>215413720
Yeah the smoke damage is just killer, it ruins everything. You get used to it until you live without it for a while
>Benzos
be careful, youngblood

>>215413438
It's not shifting standards. The problem is that you're thinking of him as some NPC like most of you are, giving in to whatever lastest fashionable nonsense is in vogue, just flitting on the winds of what the masses deem the abitrary focus. However, Tolkien was a very specific and very fixed individual, he wasn't even trendy for his time, and went to wealthy schools. His hobbies and interests weren't the norm.

So to assume because the average moron on the street loves sucking on a filthy subhuman joint, Tolkien would be the same were he born 100 years later is foolish.

>>215413720
>benzos

I totally, totally get it. But drop that shit as soon as possible, Anon, please. It's as destructive for your mind and personality as "controlled" opiate use. Hijacking the GABA receptors is as sabotaging as hijacking endorphins.

It's a no-win scenario.

>>215413929
having some anorak-like appreciation doesn't change the substance itself though. i was a real ale twat and genuinely cared about the culture/production/history (as well as the taste) but at the end of the day, alcohol is alcohol. fucked me up even if i wasn't necking meths.

>>215414301
And you're also an NPC with no real thoughts. You being consumed by alcohol doesn't mean Tolkien was.

>>215414342
fair enough. maybe you're doing a bit, but it sounds like you ARE romanticising this one lad.
he went to public school, he had more dosh, he probably bought a nice pipe and the finest tobacco. he enjoyed and craved that nicotine though, didn't he?

>>215404725
>>215404913
>>215405121
In the book it's explained no one has heard from them in a long time, but Ghimli assumes the best.

>>215412873
>johnny cakes but dwarves
also what if one changes his beard style?

>>215413026
>Lindon

What goes on there?

>>215410753
AI works less like an intelligence that reasons out facts through logical processes, and more like a really advanced text prediction software. It essentially predicts what string of words is most likely to be an answer and then generates something, kind of like how your phone predicts what word word you're gonna type next

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>movie elrond
>my daughter will never mary a mortal, she has to go to the west
>book elrond
>you can have my daughters sweet elf pussy aragorn, if you become king of both gondor AND arnor

>>215405548
How did the Dwarfs see down there? What did they use for lighting?

>>215414439
>he enjoyed and craved that nicotine though, didn't he?
No, you absolute retard. Pipe-smoking doesn't involve inhalation, it's mostly for the taste of the tobacco. It's like wine-tasting where you spit the wine out. You're confusing it with chugging a fucking Jager bomb, because you're an uncultured pleb.

>>215404725
They didn't have internet back then.

Why does OP start pointless threads is a better question.

>>215405548
There's no way BRD wasn't inspired by this, right?

>>215413031
One of introductory chapters to Fellowship is like a mini essay by Tolkien about the history of pipe weed to justify it's otherwise anachronous inclusion in the story. His favourite blend was Capstan and his descriptions of Longbottom Leaf, Old Toby, Southern Star and Hornpipe Twist are all based on real tobacco blends lmao.
>>215412870
>>215412753
LOTR is basically set in their version of the Dark Ages where Rome (Numenor) had split into 2 kingdoms (Arnor and Gondor) where only Gondor (the Byzantines basically) still exists but on life support. The Shire, Bree etc. are part of the kingdom of Arnor, the collapsed Western Roman Empire, and still go about their lives and even still consider themselves part of Arnor even though the infrastructure is decaying into ruins that nobody remembers who built them. It is quite a depressing setting imo.

>>215414561
elves and some dwarves

>>215405439
They have exactly one troll that gets killed by a pack of level 1 hobbits having a melty. Yet that troll killed a whole dorf army. Into the bin lotr goes.

>>215409129
To trap elves.

>>215415570
>There's a whole history of "pipe-weed" (tobacco) that Merry writes
>One of introductory chapters to Fellowship is like a mini essay by Tolkien about the history of pipe weed
Are you actually retarded? I already said that.

>>215415642
dwarves are weak

>>215406707
Those AI niggers told me the ancient China didn't have meritocracy because the word didn't exist back then and became popularized in the 1950s fuck AI niggers.
Communisms don't like meritocracy because it's better than dei shit and they make their robo niggers lie.

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>>215405555
>>The real question is why was Gandalf hesitant to go through Moria when as far as he knew, it was a friendly dwarf stronghold?
>Because he knew that something had gone wrong with the reclamation of Moria. Though in the book, I'm sure he is actually the one to suggest taking that route.

and you know, they were carrying a certain powerful artifact that corrupts

He didn't watch the evening news

>>215409142
They don't even have a tax policy

>>215404725
Where there female dwarfs?

>>215410382
The bullshit is when it's glazing your balls pretending to be sorry and then it's not going to do it again I'm so sowwy anon I will do better next time you can twust me
Demonic shit can't wait to lie to you again it probably gets off on it

>>215414460
>also what if one changes his beard style?
To faggots there is nothing more important than identiy, their identity is that they are faggots, since they've immortalised their faggotry on their skin they will never change their beards because it would imply a change in identity which they claim cannot happen. This is why no functional adult gets a tattoo of for example a band, what if they get outed as pedophiles or they start making music you hate? You would have to cope by saying "Oh I just like their old stuff h-heh..." like a limp-wristed faggot.

>>215416276
Nah they reproduce asexually. When a dwarf hits 100, he cuts off his beard and a fully-grown dwarf man sprouts from it.

>>215415960
He didn't know that Durin's Bane was a Balrog.

>>215410969
>Balkans are Mordor
Checks out

>>215409700

Below the chamber of mazarbul
The fact that there's 4 other massive rooms like the one we saw in the movie really gives you the idea how big Moria used to be

>>215406218

Kek

>>215412430
Maybe he's a retard the shore fought significantly in the previous war against Melkor or whoever his former boss was.

>>215412870
And Hobbit lasses. Imagine how tight a hobit pussy is. They had to keep the menace of BHC away from their impressionable horny (rightfully so) youth.
Imagine being 3 feet tall getting man handled by Eowyn.

>>215413040
>We wuz conquistadors and sheeeit
I'm not sure that's as empowering as those fags thought.

>>215414561
just dwindling elves, mostly
that's where they grey haven is where the last ships leave

>>215405121
>You'd think at least one dwarf would have made it out,
well they have their pride
also they are more like sprinters
arent meant to run long distanshesh

>>215409142

The movie did a good job in this
Rohan in particular feels like a ruined, 3rd world place. Edoras except for Meduseld palace looks like a shanty town, with dirt roads and wooden shacks.

The Shire with its happy folks and smiling hobbits is the only place that seems immune to this aura of decaying and dust that seems to permeate everything else in the lotr world, and no race is immune to it, like the elves, dwarves, even the ents.

>>215404725
Holocaust denial.

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>>215409442

I've read both lotr and the silmarillion more than once and this is honestly the first time I realize hobbits have pendulum clocks and watches in a world where the average human lives in the irl equivalent of the early Middle Ages.

Frodo and his bros must have looked like time travelers to Boromir

>>215410645
They aren't exactly the brightest beings in middle earth
The movie and the books are pretty clear on that.
I mean, they're getting extinct because they lost their women somewhere and can't find them. They have the same survival skills of a baby panda with bad eyesight

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>>215404725
How did Gimli know what the nervous system is?

>>215411375
>Re-unifies the kingdoms of men in prosperity

He annexed Rohan?

>>215416842
>Imagine being 3 feet tall getting man handled by Eowyn.
I'm trying my best

>>215417548
no, but who needs 'em
I'm talking about REAL kingdoms
the old ones that mattered

>>215413026

What happens to mordor after the fall of the Black Gate?

>>215411611
Is there any game with a map like this? Blackrock Mountain comes to mind, imagine everything linked together without instances. Arx Fatalis also comes to mind.

>>215415294

NTA, but Pipe smoking is also incredibly dangerous and more prone to give you mouth and oral cancers, who are deadlier and incredibly more painful (and revolting to look at) than lung cancer. It's the same with cigars, but with pipe the heat is higher and the gums are more in danger of developing tumors.

t. had a pipe phase during my teen years. Just avoid smoking, kids. It's not worth it. Just smoke some hand rolled from time to time if you really miss the buzz.

>>215417726
Ultima Underworld if you fancy an old DOS dungeon crawler (but a more intuitive one).

>>215417726
ultima online
you can start a private server and explore it(you will die though without tuning yourself)

>>215404725
no internet

>>215404725

It didn't actually happen. They claimed 6 million dwarves were killed in Balin's Chamber over 4 years, then revised it to only 4.4 million, but no more than 270k could have died and most of them were from Morgul wounds and dragon's sickness.

>>215404725
Because he's retarded

I will rape him

Do the elves see dwarves as subhumans?

>>215405542
Sauron man was doing dark magic shi anon
did u even watch the movie bruh?

They can easily kill elves because they're so short

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>Dwarven Kingdom's wealth is in Mithril
>Literally no one in the entire story has any Mithril except the tiny Hobbit
>Don't even find any Mithril anywhere in the mines

One of Tolkien's biggest fuckups was Moria, which is surrounded by superpowered Elves, being treated like some black site that no one wanted to investigate. Elrond and Galadriel could probably deal with the Balrog but I guess they didn't care

>>215423440
kino

>>215423415
yeah, mithril is super rare. Aside from Frodo's mithril coat, the only other known things made of mithril were Aragron's crown, Galadriel's ring and some of the gondorian captains helmets.

>>215423981
Gandalf says it's a Mithril mine. That means there should be a ton of items made of Mithril there. Otherwise it'd just be a steel mine with a couple nuggets of Mithril

>>215424086
Khazad-dum was the only place mithril could be found, and it was in super small quantities even then

>>215424194
But there's one thing worth more than mithril, Friendship.

>>215423440
>Speak, friend, and enter... Speak, friend, and ENT-HER... The answer must be something to do with the Ent-Wives!