>a bunch of marines armed to the teeth have trouble with humanoid insects that can only attack at melee range and nerfed acid bloodThis is honestly quite the ridiculous movie. Turns an unique space horror into actionslop.
>>215523637>trouble with humanoid insects that can only attack at melee range and nerfed acid bloodthey got ambushed the first time and fucked by self-sabotage and were in narrow spaces, corridors small rooms with access from above and below, in an enclosed area. Ambushed
>>215523637They rek a huge number of the aliens though.
>>215523637They would have been fine had Gorman not been incompetent.
>>215523637Aliens is a better film than Alien and I'm tired of pretending it isn't.
>>215523637I think it's funny there's a comic where Burke survives and becomes a good guy.
>>215523637>unique space horrorthe marines were pretty horrified
aliens is kino, only faggots disagreetherefore: OP = faggot
>>215524471was the comic written by Moshe Berkowitz?
>>215523637agree 100%. it has none of the qualities that make the other movies enjoyable and it's the only one that I never feel like rewatching because it's just generic cameron forklift porn shoehorned into the alien universe.
any media where soldiers with firearms have to fight some kind of animals is dogshit slop. they're not meant to each other
>>215523637>marines with ranged weapons struggle against monsters only capable of melee attacks when they encounter said monsters in close quarter ambushesYes.
>>215523637Cameron is an enormous hack. Just look at Avatar sequels and how he's wasting an interesting setting he's created with the first movie.
>>215523637It's honestly remarkable that they didn't just repeat the xeno being in an enclosed setting with a group of trapped people, and it should be applauded for doing something different instead.
>>215524442Gorman was fine though. They, at the very last second, laid a huge what-the-fuck pile of shit in his lap with huge ramifications. He either potentially lets the hostages die and pulls back to re-assess, leading to his team getting spotted and ambushed or continues onward with full weapons that could destroy a very expensive structure and kill the team plus hostages. They needed an Atmosphere Processing Expert on-hand to evaluate things and spot the potential danger to the heat exchangers beforehand. But it was considered a joke of a mission and should have been a milk run, so higher ups wouldn't have seen a need for that.
>>215524978He didn't look at the engineering schematics or understand the implications of the setting of the operation before he ordered people in there.Hudson was the guy sitting there at the terminal looking for the tracking beacons and it went from "found them" to "saddle up" in like 10 seconds. That's failure to plan.Apone didn't do his job either, he's the senior officer (if not by rank) and is expected to take notice of those kinds of things and quietly convey that info to the LT privately so he can make a good decision and so it looks like it's his idea.
>>215523637Alien is only a pretty good movie. Massively helped by the props and sets.Aliens is actually a great film worthy of the classic label.
>>215524978Gorman should have held the team up and backed them out of the situation as soon as Ripley made him aware of his blunder of walking them into the heat exchange area of the reactor without them properly being equipped - even burke was on her side saying a stray round would have turned the reactor into a time bomb - dude should have taken a breathe and completely reevaluated his plan, re-armed them, fuck even flying the dropship back to the sulaco to load up on extra flame units would have been preferable to them walking in with sidearms and like 2 flame throwers for an entire squadshit was fucked as far as that plan
>>215525498Aliens is a flick, not a film.
I can't believe they edited out the sentry scene in Aliens. One of the best parts of the movie.
>>215526297True. He expecting something relatively easy to kill, easy to spot, and that would be afraid of their flamethrowers. They were surprised by not being able to spot the aliens on infrared and essentially being blind to being surrounded. The explosion killing the team wasn't supposed to happen. As soon as shit hits the fan, he immediately orders them to fall back to the apc while laying down covering fire. But the Apone gets ganked and the team is in chaos already
>>215526311
>>215523637I really strongly prefer AlienBut after how utterly offensively shit Alien: Earth was, I feel much more open to this movie. I want to see that alien and its child at the end of A:E get blasted with a pulse rifle tbqh
>>215523637The thing is a monster can only remain a monster as long as it remains unknown. Cameron knew he could never hope to replicate what Scott had achieved because the monster was already known to the audience and it was now merely a dangerous creature. So what did he do? He shifted the focus and did for Ripley the same thing he would later do with Sarah Connor. She turned her into a seasoned survivor and gave her someone to protect. In short, she focused on the characters rather than the creature and raised the stakes. As a result both movies, Aliens and Terminator 2, work as action movies rather than horror movies.One could certainly question the decision of switching genres but one must still understand that replicating the original horror films was not really an option. Furthermore since both movies are good there isn´t really any problem with doing so. If anything the only thing you could say is that Alien didn´t really need a sequel to begin with.
>>215524452no one claims the opposite
>>215526458Cameron didn't switch genres. His movie is WAY scarier than Alien. It's not even funny. You watch Alien and the monster is pathetic. It's only able to do anything because the crew are bumbling idiots that don't know what they're dealing with. They continually walk off on their own into the dark and right into the monster who just grabs them and walks away. Plus the lying android that's sabotaging them at every turn. In Aliens, they have weapons and armor and constantly get wrecked. Now that's scary! The aliens are a huge threat and even the human's best technology is only delaying the inevitable. Their only hope is for 1-2 people to barely escape while sacrificing most of the team just to explode the entire area. Having a couple scenes with guns shooting doesn't make something an 'action movie'. That's a very brainlet take.
>>215526559>His movie is WAY scarier than Alien. It's not even funny.This seems like the kind of thing people who can't visualize an apple or have no internal monologue would say
>>215523637You're right, I guess we did win in Vietnam
>>215523637Oh yeah, a small group of well equipped soldiers could never be overrun by a numerous enemy that can only attack them at melee range. Just impossible.
>>215526458Depends on your frame of reference. It's not unknown to the audience after the first film, but new characters are discovering the monster in each successive one.You could replicate it endlessly as long as the focus is on the new characters - it's about their experience dealing with the monster rather than the audience discovery of the monster...that you can't really replicate so long as the monster doesn't evolve. Even then, from the audience's perspective that is only going to work so many times before they're bored with watching noobs figure out what they already know about the monster over and over. They need new settings, new circumstances, new weapons, new rules of engagement, new mutations of the monster itself (or it learning things), new backstory that affects characters' decisions in the course of dealing with the monster, and so on.The franchise has tried a lot of this but hasn't always (or even often) been successful.
>>215526458>>215526702on rereading, i realize I said most of what you did just in more words.How's this: Yep, you're right.
>>215524978They shouldn't have a fucking lieutenant making these decisions in the first place. Really, the Sulaco should have been deployed with a least a battalion's worth of men (three or more companies), with one company deployed planetside and at least one other held in reserve to be used as a quick reaction force if something goes wrong, and so someone of fairly senior rank (a major or higher) would be on-hand to make informed decisions as needed. At the very least, they should have augmented their ranks with additional androids (Weyland-Yutani literally mass produces them) since it was already known that the Xenomorphs were a biological hazard to humans.
>>215524471>Burke survives and becomes a good guy.
>>215526643U-S-A! U-S-A!
>>215526377Problem, bitchboy?
>>215526644That's literally example of where they weren't stupid.
>>215523637>>215524442Gormon fucked up by not calling a retreat the second they realized that they couldn't use their ARs or flamethrowers under the reactor.They could have laid siege to the reactor entrance with their superior firepower and killed any Xeno scum that popped out.
>>215523637Why does every marine’s helmet cam instantly go to static when the marine dies? We don’t see this with police body cams. >ruins the entire movie for me
>>215527168>why did the aliens that spew acid from everywhere accidentally destroy the camera while jumping ontop of the marineswhy indeed...
The funniest part of Aliens is that the problem would have solved itself if the Sulaco was delayed by even a day.
>>215527228>the problem would have solved itself if the Sulaco was delayed by even a day.Huh
>>215527120The mission was to wipe them out tho. Nuke em from orbit, the only way to be sure.
>>215524471>Burke survivesBurke literally was about to have his chest bursted open by a chest-burster.
>>215527228The reactor wasn't in any danger of melting down until the Marines shot holes in the heat exchanger.>>215527184>spew acid from everywhereonly if they're bleeding
>>215527228>>215527380It was the dropship crashing into it actually.
>>215526702From a purely narrative point of view i guess you could get away with that but i believe the original Alien success owes much of it to it´s cinematography. To hiding the whole creature from the audience´s view by cleverly playing with the lighting and camera angles. Psychologically speaking the audience fills in the gaps of information that are purposely left out of view by those things and build their own personal version of the monster. Whatever each of us imagine is rooted in our own fears so it will be more scary than whatever they´ll ultimately build.Once you see the monster though that´s gone forever, unless, as you said, you evolve the monster but even then you´d run into design issues, no? Like how much can you change it while retaining it´s iconic value? At some point is going to be either a complete different monster or a derivative creature you´ve seen so many times you won´t longer fear it even if the characters do. And if the movie fails to convey that sense of fear then it has failed as an horror movie.All that said i don´t mean to say the design of the creature itself is irrelevant, far from it. The Xenomorph does have an uncanny quality that makes it quite unique and scary on itself, i just meant to point out there is a difference between creature and monster as far as perception is concerned. >>215526559It is completely different. A monster produces fear that is tied to the unknown. It´s different from the sense of danger produced by a known creature. When a creature capabilities are known one can think of possible ways to deal with it, while if it´s something unknown that lurks in the dark one can´t come up with solutions. I won´t deny the idiot´s plot element though but the crew of the Nostromo were nothing more than glorified space truck drivers so it´s kind of justified.
>>215527228If you want a real plothole, it's that they showed up expecting a downed colony transmitter, and the only way to call the second dropship was from the one they took planetside. This was extremely stupid to have a single point of failure to be able to call the other dropship and get off the planet. They're lucky the colony transmitter worked at all, dish alignment/control issues notwithstanding.>>215527422The dropship crashed at the front door of the facility several floors up from the heat exchangers. It was more likely the grenades and explosive tipped rounds deep inside the facility - right next to them - caused the problem.
>>215524452stop pretending you are heterosexual too
>>215527492The biggest point of failure was sending one platoon and a single dropship rather than one company and ten dropships, plus men held in reserve on the Sulaco.
>>215527038
>>215527663Nobody in reserve on the Sulaco (even just another synthetic) was dumb as fuck.Burke knew about the alien but the Colonial Marines only had a vague understanding of a "xenomorph" from what they considered an unreliable and disgraced witness, Ripley. Most of them didn't read her report or believe it.That said, the USCMC wasn't going to send that many guys and ships for what they assumed was a transmitter equipment malfunction.Nobody knew or believed what the Xenomorph was capable of except Ripley, and even Burke assumed a handful of Marines was enough.
>>215527826It's basically the USA going into Vietnam/Iraq thinking superior firepower will be all that matters in the fight.
>>215527826Also consider that Ripley only ever fought a single Xeno. They had no reason to believe the station would be swarming with them.
>>215527935jesus fuck, it's a team being sent on an easy milk run mission that ends up being hard. It's not some vietnam or metaphor or allegory or any other fan fiction bullshit you're making up.
>>215527998James Cameron has said that it is a Vietnam allegory.
>>215527120The fault lay at the NCOs (Apone and Frost) who should have faked taking away the ammunition. Only the convict Marines had sense to fake them out.The fault also lays at the Officer (Gorman) who should have subdued the suit for challenging his authority.
>>215524953true. Alien worked one time, Aliens worked one time, and theyre both near perfect. try alien again (alien 3), or try aliens again (resurrection) or try both (romulus), theyll very likely always just be a shell of the great first 2 films. Prometheus as well is good because it’s different. Covenant had potentia as part of a series but that was completely bungled
>>215527184They bleed acid they don’t spew it. Your reply is really stupid and I want you to fart on it.
>>215528626Prometheus didn't work at all. That's why everyone hates it and mocks it as turd, retard.
>>215527990She speculated, based on the report from the Nostromo ground team of thousands of eggs, that there could be more than one colonist infected. Again, part of her report that was ignored. She told the Marines as much in the pre-mission briefing, but at that point they were already in orbit above LV-426 and only had what they brought with them.>>215528117Had every Marine been firing wildly in there once the shit broke out, the reactor might have melted down sooner and nobody survived, ultimately. More of the Marines would have survived the initial contact, but the dropship would have still crashed and they'd still have been in a bad situation.
>>215528772Anon there are legion of middle brow faggots that love and promote prometheus. You should be correct but unfortunately you aren't. >>215526644The base in aliens should have been called Roark's drift
>>215528626Alien resurrection is based and who do I have to fuck to get off this board
Everyone complaining about Gorman is simply using 20/20 hindsight and not viewing his decisions on what his character knows at the time.They have no idea about the Alien queen or the eggs in the base. They only know about Ripley stating 1000s of eggs on the spaceship many many miles away.They have no idea about the xeno life cycle other than reports from Ripley who was seen as a kook.There was no evidence of a mass horde of xenos waiting for them. The battle in the compound was over, no evidence of anything remaining on the motion sensors and after they sweeped.They didn't know if the colonists were even dead at that point, though the fact they were all together in a non living space should have been suspicious.Gorman followed correct procedures. He had no good reason to withdraw his squad after finding out about the reactor and probably would have faced disciplinary for not going on. His squad had at least 4 incinerators and small arms to protect themselves. (Again if you argue against this it is only because YOU know there are 100+ xenos waiting).After they are ambushed he orders the squad to fall back and use the incinerators for suppressing fire. This was entirely the correct order. He was undermined by the ill discipline of vasquez and drake firing and causing chaos.
I'm glad people are finally starting to turn around on Aliens. It's not bad, it's actually pretty good, but it's overrated. People putting it in the same league as Terminator 1/2 never sat right with me. It's actually one of James Cameron's weakest films. Sure did influence a shit ton of good vidya and comics, at least.
>>215527998James Cameron, the guy who MADE THE FUCKING MOVIE, said it was. The Marines LOOK like Marines from Vietnam. They act like stereotypes from any Vietnam movie. Are you dense or just pretending to be retarded?
>>215530095If only they had a little girl who could corroborate Ripley's story and could tell them there are thousands of xenos roaming around...
>>215530539There weren't thousands. Around a hundred. Newt had no idea how many or where they were. All she knew was that several of them roam around the colony at night and she needs to be back in her hidey hole by then to stay safe from them
>>215523637Not really. They slaughter massive amounts of them with no real difficulty and it's only through sheer numbers that it becomes problematic. Like Rorke's Drift. Totally killed the Alien as a menacing threat and ruined the franchise for me, even though I do like the movie itself.
>>215530607>All she knew was that several of them roam around the colony at night and she needs to be back in her hidey hole by then to stay safe from themFair but it's also safe to assume that every single colony member is infected and you know how many colony members there are.
>>215523637>Turns an unique space horror into actionslop.alien was never unique, it was just a generic slasher set in space
If you prefer Aliens you are not white.
>>215524442Play Aliens Dark Descent and you will sympathize a lot with Gorman. Trying to keep your squad alive in that game can be pretty stressful.>>215527057You probably eat snickers bars upside down because you like the feeling of the vein on your tongue.
>>2155286263 and Resurrection are far better Alien films than Prometheshit and Covedrip
>>215527998That's exactly what Vietnam was you fucking retard. The US thought they would fly in and just take the country by force. We all know how that turned out.
>>215530095Its pretty clear the movie wants Gorman to be untested and unqualified
>>215524471Paul Reiser chads, we won
The US would have won Vietnam if they stayed in the war. The real place they lost the war was at home, with liberal media spewing a constant scroll of pictures of dead GIs. Plus the constantly moaning hippy crowd, who cried about bringing the soldiers home, then called them baby killers and murderers when they got back.Liberals are evil retards, basically, and Cameron is one of them.
>>215523637Try to watch the movie, retard.
>>215523637Most incidents involving humans dying preventable depths against animals happen due to either fear, or humans not respecting what they are up against.
>>215523637That's the point.The movie spends the first act building up the group as these invincible bad-asses. And then they get slaughtered and it's the women and the robot and the pacifist that survive....It was Cameron giving the middle finger to the over-done 80s action movie trope of the bad ass marines who can't be stopped.
>>215526943Considering the size of the nostromo which had 5 people it seems the Sulaco was basically a transport chopper in this setting.
>>215523637Have you ever been mistaken for a man?
>>215531906Saving Vietnam from communism helped exactly 0 people in the US.
>>215524452Kek. It wishes it was better. It absolutely doesnt understand the elements that made the first one masterful.
>>215531906Holy shit you faggots lost. Get over it and die already you fucking boomer
>the queen that'd just lost its ovopositor somehow placed not one but two eggs on the ship
>>215523637You’re just sour grapes because mommy didn’t buy you all the cool Aliens toys.
>>215533902I don’t understand the point of action figures. What are you supposed to DO with them?
>>215533902>doesn't have the most badass Hudson and Vasquez>instead has super android Bishop, known for his avoidance of violence, equipped with a minigun
>>215530193>aliens >was badIdk the general opinin is that aliens is based but aliens is more based. I don't know why anyone would give if the opinions were reversed. You shouldn't think contrarians are actually giving any sort of consensus opinion.
>>215531623Based
>>215533934zoomoid pls
>>215523637nah they did fine until they ran out of ammo
>>215533973punishing gatling gunit fires disciplinary but nonviolent spankings
>>215524442>They would have been fine had Gorman not been incompetent.Almost as though he were selected for mediocrity and inexperience to make him and his marines easier to murder
>>215534853No, that's not what happened. Writing hadn't turned into such generic garbage slop like that back then. As has been stated a hundred times, the mission was a milk run nothingburger. A way to get some experience for new commanders and to send your troops who are leaving the service soon
>>215528626>Prometheus as well is good
>>215532259No anon. It just an oversight for the purpose of the story. Even assuming the company wanted to keep this hush-hush and minimize exposure of the aliens, it makes no sense to not have an android who is plugged in on standby mode, and if no one communicates with it twice a day it will activate to make sure that everything was OK, or that it didn't need to bring down a second drop ship (they were there to potentially rescue colonists after all). All without violating opsec. Even with Cameron wanting a vietnam allegory with a bunch of guys sent into danger with little intel, or concern for their safety (or success), its just a very minor plot hole that doesn't really matter because the story needs to happen with a bunch of marines stuck in a haunted mansion.
>>215526595This sounds like the kind of thing people who can't come up with an argument would say.
>>215535209It makes perfect sense though. Just because you decided a bunch of shit with 20/20 hindsight doesn't change that fact. They acted appropriately according to the way things are in that series. There are little to no real threats and zero aliens.
>>215535168Not that anon, but I'll defend prometheus, everything in the movie EXCEPT the script is genuinely fantastic. Especially watching it in the theater with 3d, which is one of the few times where I felt 3d actually enhanced the movie instead of being a gimmick. It wasn't stuff popping out at you, it was just how much depth and volume the sets had. And its ridley scott, I'm not showing up for the story, I'm showing up to see a technical master at work.
>>215526943You'd be correct, but Burke put this whole thing together as is on purpose. All he cared about was getting a few people infected and running back to the ship asap.
>>215535331There is literally ZERO logical reason to have a space ship that costs a shitzillion dollars, that has two or more drop ships, and not have literally one guy who's job it is to wait by the communications room and wait to hear someone request a drop ship because (literally anything) happened to the first one. Also, those guys are marines, they're not piloting the ship, they're not doing engine maintenance, ripley is the only one who is space-forklift certified. Where the fuck is literally everyone else who SHOULD be there. It makes no sense in foresight, you don't need hindsight. Someone used the analogy earlier that the sulaco was just a huey that choppered in the marines, but it isn't because they don't just leave the huey sitting on the fucking ground. Even james cameron admits it doesn't make sense, but it needs to happen so the movie can happen. And its okay because literally everything about the movie up to, and after that point earns your suspension of disbelief.
>the company programmed or sent ash with commands to prioritize bringing a live sample homeso they knew about it, or at least someone knew of the engineers/aliens already. yet when ripley talks with all the people at the company, they act like they don't know about it. and they sent people to colonize lv 426 20 years ago, but never bothered to check in for 20 years until ripley told them to?
>>215535649No, they didn't. They detected a repeating signal indicating there might be something interesting. The order was simply: if alien life is found, it's prioritized above all else to bring it home. They didn't know it was some black dick monster. It wasn't supposed to kill the crew or ship. It's important because there is no other alien life yet found.
>>215523637>unique space horrorIt's a space slasher movie. They even do a bunch of dumb tropes like bring the infected on board.
>>215535649I always assumed that it was top secret need-to-know information in the company and most of the middle management dicks didn't need-to-know. Paul Riser was one of the scumbag cuthroat guys who was in on the secret, and was trying to execute the companies interests.
>>215536051No, they literally tell you in the movie no one knows and no one believes Ripley. Burke is looking for opportunities so he sends a message to the colonists to investigate. If they find something, he gets a big pay day. If they don't find anything, no big deal. It all went to shit because he wanted to keep it quiet so he could get a payday. Fucking hell pay attention to the movie before you make up random fan fiction headcanon.
ALIEN$ is awesome, you low T buttface
>>215536151literally no one is saying it isn't, its pure cameron spectacle.
For me it's alien 3 and 4
>>215531906I agree about liberals being evil retards but, There was literally zero reason to go there in the first place. The protests were a good thing. Spitting on the returning soldiers who were forced to go in the first place, I almost can't even believe that happened because of how evil and retarded it is... but unfortunately I've seen first hand how liberals behave in this decade so I definitely believe it.
>>215524369Sentry gun scenes were kino they never should have cut them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d74lpFaV97g
>>215531906>US would have won Vietnam if they stayed in the war.No we wouldn't for the very simple reason that the US military was not fighting a war in vietnam. It was a police action to prop up a massively unpopular western-friendly el presidente. The military was fighting a police action, the ARVN was supposed to be fighting the war. The VC were definitely fighting a war. No one ever wanted to be involved. First it was the French, and since we were their allies when they backed out of administrating the US stepped in, at first just as advisors, then as boots on the ground to help coordinate, then just straight up military action, and then more and more people got funneled in.
>>215536599You forgot the part where JFK didn't want to continue the vietnam PA and was going to remove the small US force until oops he suddenly died and his vice president LBJ just coincidentally flooded the country with US troops and equipment
>>215527998the reason why youre getting dogpiled on is bc the army thought nam was going to be relatively easy go in and out type of deal
>>215536104so..people lived on lv 426 for 20 years by this point, but only went to examine the alien ship and stuff at burke's request and study them, setting up the lab and everything, only after hearing ripley's story? and the colony going bust happens in the time it took them to get there?even if i'm supposed to assume all this shit it feels like theres a few missing scenes
>>215536808>in the time it took them to get there?i meant before they even left* since they mention not getting an answer
>>215536808They didn't do anything outrageous. Burke sent a message that takes two weeks to get there. It triggers the colonists to go to the derelict and get facehugged. They bring that back to the colony and others go out there. Contact is lost and they don't check in two weeks later. That triggers the Sulaco to go out which takes about three weeks. So a month of going to the derelict, getting some specimens, and having xenomorphs stalk colonists, capture them, and make more xenos. That's all explained in the damn movie
>>215527826What I don't get is why Sulaco had no fucking crew to speak of. Nostromo, which is essentially a glorified tugboat, had a minimum crew of seven. Sulaco was a warship that was hundreds of time the displacement, so naturally it should have had a crew well into the hundreds.I mean, nevermind the xenomorphs or the risk of the ship being attacked or even captured while it's sitting unmanned in orbit, how are you expecting a platoon of Marines who barely have high school educations to repair the ship if it suffers a leak or collides with an asteroid?Even with a skeletal crew of like 10 guys, they could have received the messages from the troops on the ground alerting them to the outbreak and initiated a planet-wide quarantine until reinforcements could arrive from other deployments.>>215530095They knew there was a potential biological hazard on LV-426 and completely failed to plan around it. Even something as simple as requisitioning a few ground-based drones (bomb disposal robots for instance) and deploying them ahead of any Marines entering a room would have drastically mitigated the risks. The governments in the Aliens universe already had pretty anal regulations about exposing the human race to alien diseases (Ripley literally states ICC quarantine procedure as 24 hours upon exposure to any foreign organism) so we know that they're aware that the threat exists.Also, I'm not shitting on Gorman so much as I'm shitting on his superiors for not sending someone with more experience and more men.
>>215523637Cameron not understand and being afraid of the themes is hardly breaking news. Not like it's the only thing he made a shitty sequel to.
>>215533902I had the scorpion and the bull alien and a predator/alien 2 pack. Wish they made "the thing" toys in the early 90s
>>215536901>It triggers the colonists to go to the derelict and get facehugged.they didn't get facehugged though, they had time to setup an entire lab and capture multiple specimens. burk would be in cryosleep for the transit not knowing what went wrong. i guess it works
>>215526644what a dumb comparison lol i swear>"Did IQ's Just drop all of a sudden?"
