Never has been refuted.Never will be refuted.
>>216019186>family gets murdered>constantly schooled by Obi Wan the first half of the movie and has no idea what he’s doing >gets his arm cut off>his sister makes out with him not knowing they’re related to make Han jealous >completely BTFO’d in the last fight and gets deus ex machina’d by Darth changing heartLuke was the opposite of a Mary Sue. The only incredible thing he really did was make that 1 in a million shot into the deathstar’s reactor
>>216019186Female Luke wouldn’t be a Mary Sue bc she was trained by Female Jedi Knight Obi Wan on the way there and she had lots of practice with her T-16. Don’t speed watch please
>>216019330>Luke was the opposite of a Mary SueNobody can possibly believe that
>>216019186retard tier pic/thread, but I now realize jodie foster could've played lucy skywalker
The final redpill is that Star Wars was never good and has always been shit outside KOTOR and Andor
>>216019186Sexist incels are pathetic.
If Luke was a girl in ANH it would still work just fine. The only two things Luke does that are garysue like are the turret scene and of course blowing up the Death Star. Besides that he's a fucking wimp the whole movie and everyone talks down to him
>>216019186Mary Sue is code for "I don't like good characters because I can't selfinsert into them and their very existence makes me seethe cope and dialate just like attractive women do"
>>216019186>>216019589yeah i hate w*men and want them to either be dead or eye candy
>>216019186>>216019371>"nobody can rebut my argument!">gets rebutted>has no argument
Why are AIjeets obsessed with transexualism, gender-bending and "femboys"?
>>216019186He only made the Death Star shot because Obi-Wan guided him and Han showed up at the last moment to stop Vader from shooting him down
Why'd they have to fly through that long ass trench to get to the hole?
>>216019589Sexism is so inherently based it gives you the power to fight a force with 100x your army and 100000x your budget and still win.
>>216019186I don't care about the term Mary Sue, and Rey not being a Mary Sue wouldn't have saved those garbage movies, but Luke has clear faults and spends most of the film out his depth. He wins in the end because of his faith, not because he's the best or the most qualified. It isn't simply that he destroys the Death Star, but his quality of character creates a meaningful friendship and redeems Han Solo in the end as well. It isn't sophisticated stuff, but there's nothing approaching that level of writing to be found in the Force Awakens. In the Force Awakens, everyone is just along for the ride, and the deeper meaning of Rey's journey and success is little more than some feminist claptrap.
>>216019626to avoid most of the death stars defensive guns
>Luke, join with me or I will murder all of your friends and then mindrape your sister into submission!>>A Few Moments Later...>NOOOOOOOOOOO, PALPATINE WHAT ARE YOU DOING, THAT'S MY BOY! OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE? I AM REDEEMED!There's legitimately no reason for Vader to be Luke's father. It detracts from the potential of both characters and serves as an easy way to bait the audience to project their own emotional relationship into the story where otherwise none exists.
>>216019626Gets you out of the field of fire for most of the surface defenses.
>>216019699What do you mean? Just fly at the hole from "above" so to speak. You already have to approach the Death Star to enter the trench, why enter so far away?
Luke got his ass kicked multiple times and no one liked him.
>>216019751How'd they get close enough to the surface to enter the trench?
>>216019186Chudjak thread being shit? New one, never seen this prior.
>>216019186it has, you just refuse to acknowledge any refutations
>>216019186>all of that shit with Yoda was simply irrelevant I guess
>>216019186Luke was>An accomplished pilot, as mentioned by Biggs in the Special Edition and/or as mentioned in the Original cut during the conference scene.>Was being guided by Obi Wan in the final trench run. Rey was:>A good pilot, a good warrior, a good mechanic, used the force and beat a better lightsaber user.Luke had consequences:>Left training and lost his hand.Rey did not:>Barely any training with Luke, left, got some training with Leia in the last movie.
>>216019371>Kenobi: Luke is our last hope.>Yoda: No, there is another.That's the opposite of a Mary Sue. Luke wasn't even prophesized or destined to do anything. He was just a guy trying to get by.
>>216019782Multiple fighters attacking the same sector, overwhelming the defenses for a short time, yet still suffering heavy losses. Pretty realistic.
>>216019728Vader could have sacrificed himself to make up for killing Luke's father but then you would need a good reason Luke convinced him or one that would have caused him to have regret.
>>216019728It helps to ground both of the characters. Without the connection, Vader's redemption would be more incredulous and Luke's compassion for him would come off as misguided.
>>216019870Don't forget we are explicitly told Rey is BETTER THAN all the heroes we already know. It's not enough that she's competent at most things.
>>216019870Luke lost his first fight against his nemesis and nearly died despite having been trained by 2 Jedi mastersRey won her first fight against her nemesis having never trained or even met a Jesi
>>216019186this >>216019330Luke needed Obi Wan or others to save him repeatedly. Even the Death Star run he had to have Obi Wan in his ear.
>>216019186Luke was literally useless 99% of the first 2 movies you clown.
>>216019994I'm not defending the shitpile that is Disney Wars, but this isn't all that significant. Not every character needs to be Luke Skywalker. If you had a badass actor that could sell it, you wouldn't think twice about some of the shit Rey did. Rey is just a really poorly written character and Daisy Ridley is a bad actress with zero charisma.
>>216019186I would prefer bottom honestly.
>>216019186The internet didn't exist back then, it was a different time
>gets his aunt and uncle killed>gets half of red squadron killed>gets Dak killed (making him shoot his harpoon when Dak clearly stated that it was malfunctioning)>fails the tests from Yoda on Dagobah>can't save Han>gets his hand chopped offI mean the list of KWAB moments from Luke just goes on and on
>>216020053A powerful cocky jedi that accidentally does something bad or has to deal with failure are interesting concepts, but that requires a character actually being a character with flaws and everything.
>>216020124Sorry, but you guys are all boxing yourself in with this Mary Sue stuff. A basic protagonist in a blockbuster doesn't need to be someone who is deeply flawed, or who fails and makes mistakes. A certain actor with enough gravitas and the right writing could pull off a "Mary Sue" type character. The character of Rey sucks for lots of reasons - why hitch your wagon to the vaguely defined Mary Sue archetype?
>>216019766It helps to misdirect the enemy to deploy their own fighters to the wrong place while the rebel's periodically slip a squadron off to the trench. Probably would've worked out pretty smooth if Vader hadn't wised up and personally gone out to pick off the trench runners.
>>216020209You are a bad faith actor and you are much more emotionally invested than anyone else here.
>>216020280Why not just call me Jewish?
>>216020296I didn't think you were until now.
>>216020209There are successful movies with "perfect" protagonists, but it requires a lot of other things going right to avoid being boring. You're succeeding in spite of the main character, not because of it.
>>216020209>The character of Rey sucks fbecause she's a Mary Sue - why hitch your wagon on calling her a Mary Sue?You are bad at this.
>>216019539>nu-wars shit>goodBack to plebbit you go
>>216019539>Andor
>>216020338>You're succeeding in spite of the main character, not because of it.Not necessarily a given.>>216020342Funny, I'd say that about those who make this boring criticism. Even E;R, who I like, boxed himself by running with the Mary Sue stuff. He had to spend more and more time defining the term, instead of just directly criticizing the character's writing.
>>216019539I do not care for Andor. It insists on itself.
>>216019994If only there was some kind of scene where Kylo Ren compares himself to Darth Vader, and we learned who was supposed to be more powerful. Another thing you could do is ensure he goes into the first fight badly wounded, perhaps by a weapon previously established to instantly kill armored targets.
>>216020338Movies with protagonists like these are usually just setting up an excuse for a bunch of cool scenes to happen. We didn't get much of that in nuWars.
Rey wasn't a Mary Sue her movies just sucked
>>216020401>The Mary Sue archetype exists but you can't use it because...you just can'tYou're bad at this.
>>216020419Why not have him crash his TIE Fighter and have two broken legs? That way the plot can fit our intent instead of the other way around. People watch these for agendas, not spectacle.
>>216019330/thread
>>216020433Not what I said. You're bad at this.
>>216020053>I'm not defending the shitpile that is Disney Wars, but this isn't all that significant. Not every character needs to be Luke Skywalker.A lot of people focus on the window dressing of casting, Mary Sues and whatever but what this is about is how modern creatives actively AVOID normal characterisation. This isn't about making every character into Luke, this is about making good characters.GRRM, author of Game of Thrones, once wrote about how creatives respond to online audiences, in particularly how they can change things based on feedback. Everyone guessed who Jon Snow's parents were because he left information, he accepted that some people would always guess and know. GRRM describes how changing things in response to feedback is bad. Say you write a whodunnit murder mystery, everyone guesses who the killer is, so the creator changes the killer just to create a surprise. A subset of the audience will like the surprise twist, but the vast majority of people are left bemused by the hollowness of the revelation, because everything was a red herring and nothing was satisfyingly concluded. Satisfaction is the bread and butter of the story, creating good characters who have troubles, strife and overcome them.I don't need Rey to be Luke Skywalker, but I do need her to be a character, to follow those things. But they can't do that. Some creators are so terrified of the simple hero's journey, they see it as trope filled, rife for Cinemasins criticism. Or they want to actively aim towards that subverting your expectations style surprise that some online audience members covet. But all of these things are cheap. Rey after fighting Kylo Ren in TLJ seems pretty happy on the Falcon, and rather than having a dark moment they basically say they have everything they need right there, despite heavy losses. No moment of reflection. Modern writing is inhumane, it doesn't express emotion or growth and you don't seem to get that.
>Haha, Luke is a Mary Sue!>No, Rey is>SHE'S NOTSHE'S NOTSHE'S NOTSHE'S NOT>Shifts back to Rey being a Mary Sue.I'm amazed how little "But Luke, though..." works.
>>216020483Trying to no u and not refuting.You're bad at this.
>>216020468The agenda of "we are going to make two more of these, we probably shouldn't have either the protagonist or antagonist die in their first fight"?
>>216020488Then hopefully that gets writers to move away from mystery box writing. Seriously, witholding key information from the audience is cheap writing, it wasn't the norm until the 19th century
>>216019186Nothing to refute, Luke is boring as fuck
>>216020581So remove all the stakes. Have them challenge each other to a game of Yahtzee. Again, put the cart before the horse where it damn well belongs.
>>216020419Yeah, yeah, I remember this cope from 10 years ago. They had some mitigating factors, but it's really just not enough to make up for the fact that it's literally the first time Rey held a lightsaber.
>>216020614The wounded slasher and the final girl having a fight on an exploding planet isn't high enough stakes for you?
>>216019352Female Luke wouldn't be a Mary Sue because a Mary Sue is specifically a fan fiction character inserted into an existing world in fan fiction. Luke is the original protagonist of his own original story and as such literally nothing can make him a Mary Sue. Rey however is a fan fiction character inserted into Luke's story and immediately takes it over and makes it all about her, which is the literal definition of Mary Sue.
>>216020419>ensure he goes into the first fight badly wounded, perhaps by a weapon previously established to instantly kill armored targets.Again with this shit? "Durrrr Kylo was injured so it was a fair fight?" Right before the fight, Rey was smashed into a tree and fell so hard she was knocked out for a minute. She was just as injured and debilitated as Kylo, but you'll never bring that up because it refutes your retarded assertion.
>>216020664Having him fight a series of untrained nobodies wasn't particularly exciting, no.
>>216020688>blunt force trauma in a pulp setting is exactly as dangerous as a sucking chest wound
>>216020581>we're going to make two more of these>so let's have the antagonist get absolutely fucking dunked so we establish that he won't be a serious threat going forward
>>216020419>a weapon previously established to instantly kill armored targets.Like when Kylo sliced Finn down the back and Finn was saved by a leather jacket? That instant kill weapon?
>>216020761Yes? Why the fuck wouldn't it be?You have no argument. I accept your concession.
>>216020545I did refute what you said. I didn't say what you attributed to me.>>216020488I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Further upthread I said that, even if Luke fit the classification of Mary Sue, what really separates him from a character like Rey is that he represents an ideal. There is more depth to his character than simply what he does or doesn't do well. He has a kind of naivety that pushes him further, and in the end restores the faith of other characters within the story. In other words, he's a classic good guy. And you're right, modern writers are bad at that, and in making Rey just and regurgitation of Luke, they missed the underlying romanticism of the character and what made him resonate to general audiences. Daisy Ridley as Rey might have only worked as a complete foil to Luke, but nobody writing these films had enough wit or talent to achieve that.
>>216020802No, he means Kylo getting shot by Chewbacca
once again reminding lefties: woke killed star wars, woke killed LOTR, woke killed game of thrones. everything you touch turns to shit, you are the cancer of this world and everyone hates you.
>>216019766Because every turbolaser turret from the surface can fire at you if you are above the death star. However if you are in the trench only the few turbolaser in the trench can fire at you or enemy fighters.
>>216020545NTA but you didn't make any substantial point to refute
>>216020881>/pol/tard yells at clouds
>>216020822>missed the underlying romanticism of the character and what made him resonate to general audiences.Mass audiences like the hero's journey. People have written loads about how Lucas put that in the OT. Writers nowadays are allergic to the hero's journey. They have to give it "their own" spin. But those spins are usually:>Based on avoiding one set of tropes they are hyper aware of, whilst running head first into another set of tropes they are less aware of.>Adding their own politics.>Subverting expectations, twists. >Appealing to a small subset of the audience who exist in their social media bubbles.They did in places follow a bunch of the same patterns and yet they all came up hollow, meaningless, reactionary.>romanticism of the characterI know by romanticism of the character you didn't need mean romance, but to pivot, the romance of the films is a perfect example of the stuff I am talking about:>Finn is almost set up as the goofy guy who likes Rey. Then they stuff him with Rose. Then Rose vanishes. Then they almost stuff him with black ex First Order lady in the final film.>Poe seems to only have chemistry with Finn, then the films panics about this and stuffs him as having a past romance with Keri Russell in the final film. >Rey seems asexual and oblivious to Finn. Then seems to only have eyes and chemistry for Kylo Ren.Yeah the romance aspect of the OT has issues considering the love triangle was ended by "lol they're siblings" but somehow these reactionary twists and turns are worse? Finn could have simply been the bumbling guy who wins Rey's heart but then they almost reactively leaned towards shipping aspect. They had no basic structure. A basic set up and pay off would be, Finn wins Rey's heart through being a good guy and overcomes his issues. But that basic romance trope and pay off makes them sick and they pivot to one thing, then another thing, then a third thing out of sheer desperation.
>>216019626>Tie fighters on the surface>turbo lasers (whatever that means) on the surface>mildly guarded trench to fly through instead of facing all the turrets and fighters head onI mean it's pretty easy to understand
>>216020590>Then hopefully that gets writers to move away from mystery box writing.We've gone from writers who were journeymen writers, people who cut their teeth in multiple mediums and fought for pay/rights. To a bunch of always online people who write exclusively online, who are not well read, who are dissecting a reference of a reference of a reference, which at a certain point is diminishing returns. They're too reactive and don't just think about things in terms of basic set up, pay off, satisfaction.
>>216021083i'm fairly certain he's yelling at you
>>216020938
>>216021105I'm not left wing, so his little screed is just yelling at clouds.
>>216021177y'know this kind of smug, disingenuous, and dismissive attitude is why everyone hates you.
Star Wars is gay you have AIDS faggot
>>216019728This. Never liked the plot twist. It also turns Obi Wan into a gaslighting sack of shit.
>>216020081><spoiler>he likes the star wars holiday special version of luke</spoiler>
>>216021303>yells at clouds
>>216019951You still need a good reason, that's the point. The Father/Son reason isn't a reason and has no context for either character. This nigga murdered millions, billions, even trillions in cold blood. Murdered Luke's friends, murdered the closest thing he had to family, cut off his hand, murdered the closest thing he himself (Vader) had to family (Obi-Wan), and in his final moments learned he had a daughter and was fully prepared to mindrape her.Where the fuck was the regret over three movies?>>216019963Vader's redemption has no good reason, with or without it. See the above.Luke's compassion is misguided because of it, not in spite of its absence. His compassion would stem from his upbringing, his friends, and his unorthodox approach to the Jedi mindset that sets him apart from Yoda and Obi-Wan, who were ultimately convinced Anakin was lost.These things exist, and instead are forgotten in favor of>Uhh, he's my sperm donorWhich has no "grounded" psychological meaning. To reiterate; it's a cheap way to bait the audience into projecting themselves onto the character, while simultaneously ruining the character on paper.In other words... these movies are fucking gay.
>>216019626Because Lucas stole it from Flight of the Memphis Belle and that's what old bombers had to do.
>>216021411I've honestly never seen it. Maybe I should watch it.
>>216019186At least Master Yoda trained him on Dagoba before he became an unstoppable machine of light force energy.
>"I... I don't believe it.">"When 900 years of Force training you have, equal me you might."
>>216019186because women cannot do goodthey can only have babieseven then they kill said babies yet our cuck society treats it as "oh noes she's just sad :((((("
Luke in the movies really was a reverse mary sue where he can't do anything right but still gets it done just cause of people around him. Without Obi-wan he would've died in the desert, without his droids he would've died in the trash compactor, without Han he would've been shot down by Vader, and without Vader he would've been electrocuted to death. Comics Luke however is a mary sue.
>>216022312>I don't think about you at allGod, using modern social media speak on characters is just awful.
>>216019330He's, or she, is also visibly less cool than their hero companions. Less competent and badass than Han Solo the thief, less Elite and eloquent than Leia the princess, less powerful and wise the Obi-wan, less strong than Chewbacca. They're good at three things, piloting, and talent in the force not yet harnessed, and christ like compassion. Luke spends almost all the movies as a kid/student role learning from the greats around them.
>>216019186Star Wars is decent at best and shit the majority of the time desu.
>>216019186It was a one-off lucky shot - he then loses the climactic battle in episode 5 and gets his fucking hand chopped off. They would never do that to a female protag.
>>216019728>It detracts from the potential of both charactersWhat exactly is the potential of both characters otherwise? I've read some of the marvel comics and splinter of the mind's eye, Luke doesn't have shit going and Vader has even less to work with.
>>216019186I would lick her pink butthole.
>>216019186star wars has never been good
>>216019186If they remade the original trilogy it wouldn't be Luke who gets gender-swapped cos he's too much of a pussy. It would be Obi-Wan and Han, one of them would be black and the other would be a woman. I'm not sure which way around.they would probably make luke a black chick too, but then rewrite the end of episode 5 so her hand only gets cut off because she sacrificed it to save some dumbass white dude
>>216019728As shit as the prequels are, in retrospect it makes it all more powerful. It's not just his son, it's the last vestiges of his love and all that was good for him before he fell. He initially got seduced into listening to Palpatine because he wanted to save Padme, and now he's watching the last bit of it get snuffed out with his implicit approval.Vader talks a big Sith game of join or die. But it's another thing to be confronted with the reality in the moment, and its symbolic total surrender.
>>216020419>Another thing you could do is ensure he goes into the first fight badly woundedYou forget that pain is one of the like two things that make Sith stronger. He's clearly handling the wound just fine, too. We see how powerful the bolt-caster is, he should really just be dead. If he's fine enough to stand, fight and charge down a girl who's never held a lightsaber, he's fine enough to beat her. In fact, he almost has her beat until this exact moment. Look at the way this scene is shot. Even the movie isn't entertaining the idea that he lost because he's injured. It is entirely about Rey deciding she's just better than Kylo.
>>216019186That photo of Mark Hamill didn't have to be altered much to make him look like a woman. I can see why Han Solo was the one to bang that ol' coked out slut, Princess Laia.
>>216022533True. If nothing else, they at least for the most part complement 6.
>>216022528>if they remade the original trilogy
>>216019186you forgot he got saved from death by han solo as vader was about to blow him up, only then did he take the shot as obi wan was guiding him
>>216019186The death star shot is the only poin->Old white dude dies for herok you got two points
>>216019539this. Except those are shit too.Not interested in spacejuden
>>216019596>dialate just like attractive women doUnderr8ed b8
>>216019626Try flying out of the trench in Rogue Squadron II and see how that works out for you.
>>216023415>Season 3 Treehouse of HorrorI saw that specific episode last night. But you know that, fed.
>>216022533>He initially got seduced into listening to Palpatine because he wanted to save PadmeWho was seducing him here? I get where you're coming from, but at the same time no. The story is too disjointed and contradictory at different points to be coherent. Anakin is a clusterfuck of a non-character in every scene. Hell, even his Rogue One cameo makes him out to be a retard, and I still have no idea why he needed to carbon freeze Luke, but fuck it.And while not explicitly related, it's pretty fucking embarrassing to need 12+ hours of runtime to tell a story that other writer/directors could do in 90-120 minutes, and that despite having 12 hours the quality of the story is how it is.Oh and don't forget, Anakin/Vader believes he killed Padmé, and still goes along with Palpatine because fuck it. He also becomes convinced of "his new empire" and ends up valuing that vision over any love he felt for her, hence why he accuses her of betraying him and "kills" her.Anakin is literally just sand Hitler, and while I'm sure Hitler loved Eva Braun and his dogs, I'm not really convinced that if somebody claiming to be his son showed up randomly and Goebbels started tickling him, that he would shoot ol' Joe in the face and abandon his crusade. But that's what happens in Jorge's imagination.
>>216019186Have you seen the movie? He's pretty much incompetent at everything except one very specific skill (shooting targets accurately in single seat ships), and he only succeeded that shot because two squadrons had to be wiped out, Han had to return to save his ass, and Ben helped him focus the Force to not miss. The rest of the movie he's useless, impatient, bratty, arrogant, gets everything wrong, and he's too short for a stormtrooper.
>>216019186men are capable of doing shit, women arent
>>216021113you have to approach from outside the trench anyway
>>216019539The actual redpill is when you realize that Star Wars (1977) is the only good thing to ever bear that name
>>216023897I love when discussions provoke drawings!
>>216023873Really should've ended after the first movie. Not sure why they made sequels.
Reminder Sheev originally wanted to Confederacy of Independent Systems to win.
>>216020938This is a stupid argument Becuase you also can’t dodge the lasers that can hit you.Just shoot three blots equal width apart and you will have no way to go except into the walls.The real reason is the angle
>>216023897Ok but what if you approach it extremely fast at tangent, faster than you could if you were headed straight at it, and then slowed down once you were outside of the turbolasers' field of fire.
Why didn't she allow for a commission to explore the validity of her accusations?
>>216024084Hatred of committees is strong in her family. She has it. Her daughter has it. Her son-in-law has it
>>216024084Because George Lucas is a fucking retard?
>>216019539what about Kyle Katarn games?
>>216024084Because any commission would reveal she was emblazoning tax dollars, which is what started the whole crisis with the Trade Federation.
>You know, M’Lady, Count Dooku was once a Jedi. He couldn’t assassinate anyone. It’s not in his character.Unless Mace and Dooku are still on friendly talking terms, how the hell would he know this after Dooku left the Jedi order 10 years ago? Possibly he is trying to cover this up cause the Jedi want Senator Padmé dead??
>>216024167>emblazoning
>>216024167>>216024185>A communications disruption can mean only one thing; infetterence
>>216019186would
>>216024182where do black people even come from in star wars? is there an african planet?
>>216023993Fuck off with that Sheev shit.
>>216024084How long would it have taken to get a commission together when it would take even longer after that getting the courts to move their asses? The whole thing was a beaureaucratic boondoggle and even she knew it.
>>216019186Strawman. Jannies, take the trash out.
>>216024584I don't know, how big of a commission do you really need? Seems like you could gather two people, send 'em at hyperspeed to see the blockade, and wrap up the very same senate hearing in time for a hearty evening dinner at Dexter Jettster's.Weirdest part is that the trade niggas actually suggest the commission. Like, did Palpy put them up to suggest that? What was the plan if she did agree to it?What did she realistically want Valorum to do?Why do planets not have representatives?What was even the point of calling for the vote and electing Palpatine? He doesn't even do anything to resolve the situation, and isn't formally made chancellor until the end, after everything is done.I'm so confused.
>>216023680Yes Dave, I do.
>>216023823To be fair episodes 2 and 3 got completely fucked up because Lucas had to U-turn on making Jar Jar a sith lord.
>>216023943Nah, IV and V. Lucas sold out at VI.
>>216024479Jungle planet
>>216025033>To be fair episodes 2 and 3 got completely fucked up because Lucas had to U-turn on making Jar Jar a sith lord.Instead he made him President pro tempore of the Senate
>>216024084The whole thing is retarded. Chancellor Valorum knew about the blockade and sent the Jedi there in the first place but then.. doesn't believe them? Can the Jedi not simply testify negating the need for a commission? The Jedi were trusted enough to be sent to negotiate the blockade in the first place. The galaxy is tiny because it is shown that everyone can travel fast, literally in hours/day, to different planets. So would sending people there really take that long either?LUCAS IS A HACK.
>>216019186Well yeah, men are naturally better at driving than women. Just look at real life. The same goes for combat, problem solving and pretty much everything. Women are inferior beings and their whole value is between their legs. If a woman does anything out of ordinary in a movie, she's a Mary Sue indeed.
>>216025179It pains me to know that men are probably better at sucking dick as well, but I'll never test that theory.
>>216025120>Chancellor Valorum knew about the blockade and sent the Jedi there in the first place but then.. doesn't believe them?He sends them there on his own dime, so to speak, as a favor for Padmé to hopefully resolve the situation quietly, because he is genuinely a good guy trying to circumvent the bureaucracy without dissolving it entirely.I.E. it wasn't official, which is what the commission would be. Hypothetically, Valorum would've just called Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to testify, had she agreed to the terms. But she immediately jumped the gun and kicked his ass to the curb because... he didn't do what? Aggressively silence and murder the people she doesn't like?I swear this bitch is the Phantom Menace. She even looks like a fucking ghost with the makeup and shit on.
>>216025288Do you ever see Padme and Maul in the same place at the same time?Ever see 'Padme' in that ghostface outfit after Maul dies?It was all a force illusion projected by Sith Lord Binks
>>216019186Okay. And?
>>216024479probably Coruscant before it became a cyberpunk hellhole controlled by an inneffectual republic and incompetent Jedi.
would anything actually change if Luke was a woman?
>>216024479The rakata bred them, as a joke
>>216025120>>216025288>>216025349Oh yeah, with all that being said, don't forget that the opening crawl also implies that the senate is already aware of the blockade, and what's really in question here is the invasion.So if you agree to the commission, one of two things happens...>The commission organizes, arrives, witnesses the unseen concentration camps, and the Republic goes to war with the Trade Federation>The commission organizes, the Federation scrambles to flee the scene and erase all evidence, the commission arrives and gathers the remaining evidence, interviews witnesses/victims, etc...And instead, she chose the whole "lie to an army of fish people so they can die in a five minute civil war I started for no reason" route.Maybe the Nabooians deserve to die? They never actually go into detail about the taxations of trade routes. Maybe Naboo is full of tax evaders or some shit? I'm not even sure why this planet or its people exist. What the fuck do they even produce or contribute to the Republic to warrant a seat in the senate?
>>216019371I believe itMillions of others doCheckmate tard
>>216025463Love triangle would be naive farm girl Lukette and rich princess Leia both crushing on Han. Big shipping wars. Looks like Lukette is in the lead in ANH and the start of ESB with Han going to save her twice but Leia pulls ahead in the rest of ESB.>I love you>I knowNot just Han being a jerk/trying to soften blow his (possible) death will have, he's also being non-committal to avoid betraying Lukette. The reveal in the next movie that they are sisters allows Han to dream of a threesome.
>>216019186Femboy luke kinda hot frfr
Han should've died in Empire.
>>216020355>non-Gilroy shit>goodWhere do you faggots get this 'nu-wars' buzzword when Lucas handpicked Kennedy and Filoni lol
>>216025179Michelle Mouton was a good driver. Not Senna good, but good.
>>216024747>Seems like you could gather two people, send 'em at hyperspeed to see the blockadeThat's what these two guys did, learned everything they needed to know and then got sidequested by the Chosen One.>Weirdest part is that the trade niggas actually suggest the commission.To stall for time and prolong the massacre and blockade>What did she realistically want Valorum to do?She knew the political process and how long and arduous it was going to take, but Valorum's lackadaisical response to the issue coupled with Palpatine pointing out that he is helpless without the meddling of the bureaucracy.>Why do planets not have representatives?They do? That's what the Senate scenes are meant to embody. All of that representation gets swept away under the new imperial regime in the original trilogy by having them now be ruled under regional governors. >What was even the point of calling for the vote and electing Palpatine? He doesn't even do anything to resolve the situation, and isn't formally made chancellor until the end, after everything is done.After the Battle of Naboo, it was realized that the ineptitude of the Republic to enact its will with no standing army meant that the outlier systems had to fend for themselves and thus, the CIS formed, not by representative democracies or constitutional monarchies or the like, but through corporate interests. In the aftermath of the battle, Sifo-Dias is sent to commission a clone army that is conveniently ready for combat on behalf of the Republic by the time the Separatist Crisis kicks off on Geonosis.. This kicks off a three year war that reforms the republic into the empire orchestrated and coordinated by one person and it was all by design to get himself into a position of power to lead it from the forefront instead of the shadows.
>>216019186So what you are saying that is Rey was man, you wouldn’t like the character?
>>216025721I think OP is a tranny.
>>216019186Rey as a guy would have zero defenders.
>>216025720>To stall for time and prolong the massacreWhat massacre?>She knew the political process and how long and arduous it was going to take(...)Right, but what was she expecting him to do? For that matter, what was she expecting Palpatine to do, and why did she completely forget about said expectations over the next 10+ years?>They do? That's what the Senate scenes are meant to embody.No, I mean Representatives. Like people who are officially appointed, live on the planet, and speak for the planet.Senators live on Coruscant, insofar as I can tell, and represent the Republic. The two concepts are meant to work in tandem, but it seems in George's universe the former is completely absent.It's hard to tell if Amidala counts or not because she's elected by the Nabooians to govern their own existence on a planet-level, versus a galactic-level.The whole system is really awkward and ambiguous.>After the Battle of Naboo(...)Wait, the Republic had no military?How did Sifo-Dyas even commission the clone army? Did he have to put a down payment on it? How could a Jedi master afford that?
>>216025509>Millions of others doNope. There’s like tens of you. That is it.
>>216025906>What massacre?"The death toll is catastrophic."Many citizens on Naboo were rounded up into camps and starved to pressure Amidala to sign a treaty to legitimize their occupation>What was she expecting him to do?Anything other than what was being done which was nothing. She risked her life to bring attention to the situation before them while accompanied by the Jedi that were sent to ascertain it and the only response she got was to have yet another envoy sent to see what was going on and being shouted down in the Senate by the perpetrators. The perps being the Trade Federation; not a senator of a planet, system, monarchy, city, coalition of planets, but a corporation. A "functional constituency" as it were. This detailed that the Trade Federation's seat represented a concession by the Republic to the immense power of a private entity that had become larger and wealthier than many member star systems. And thus, it succumbs to its will.>No, I mean Representatives. Like people who are officially appointed, live on the planet, and speak for the planet.Its done via sectors or administrative units. Following the Ruusan Reformations, the Republic was divided into 1,024 sectors, each represented by a single senatorial delegation and one vote in the Galactic Senate. The Senator was often referred to by a prominent planet within the sector (e.g., the Senator from Naboo), but they represented the entire sector's interests. This all got reformed and regional governors, or moffs, took over the job in the new regime.>The whole system is really awkward and ambiguous.Its decaying under its own way and dysfunction by the time we come into the story.>Wait, the Republic had no military?After the Ruusan Reformation, the structure of the galaxy was reworked after the perceived annihilation of the Sith and peace reigned for 1000 years. Local militias took care of their own conflicts. The blockade of Naboo was overwhelming.Sifo Dyas commissioned the army in secret.
>>216023897They clearly came at the Death Star from the wrong angle for this, but had no choice since that was how the planets and the DS lined up in the Yavin system.
>>216026163>>216025906>>216025720It’s getting really scary how you guys have to explain The Phantom Fucking Menace to a complete retard. What the hell is going on with the world?
>>216020419The worst thing about Rey is that there's so many hints to her channeling the dark side all through the trilogy and there's absolutely zero payoff for it, she never has a single fault.>constantly prone to emotional outbursts>scared of taking the lightsaber at first, runs away>fear leads to anger, is later able to push Kylo Ren out of her mind by getting angry>wins a lightsaber duel, again by getting angry>loses her temper several times when training with Luke>anger leads to hate, literally shoots a ship out of the sky with force lightning in the third movie>kills Chewie (not really though lol she can't do anything wrong)>even Palpatine comments on her anger when they fight, telling her to strike him down with all of her hatred etc>kills him but lol nope actually she's just perfect so nothing bad happens! sike
>>216026168Particularly since the Death Star was about fifteen minutes away from blowing up their base, there wasn't really time to make a detour.
>>216019371Everyone does.
>>216025528>Love triangle would be naive farm girl Lukette and rich princess Leia both crushing on HanKinda hot tbdesu.Would probably be the western Eei vs Asuka.
>>216026625>EeiRei
God I can't believe I need to say it but a Mary Sue is not just a super powerful character that's amazing at lots of things. They have other features, the first if which requires they be in fan fiction, or at least a work by another creator which alone disqualifies Luke from being a Sue.But even if we grant that usage has stopped the requirement that a Sue is someone's OC not in the original work there are other features that Luke lacks. To start with not everyone loves him for no reason, Han thinks he's a dumb farm boy for example. Plus Luke, despite being good at a lot of things isn't the BEST at everything; Leia takes the lead in the Death Star escape, Han is better with the Falcon, etc.Contrast with Rey the character this image exists to defend: Rey is good at fighting, good at piloting, good at starship repair so she does meet the "overpowered" part. Also everyone important loves her immediately and for no reason: Han, that alien that gives her a lightsaber, Finn, Leia hugs her before Chewie even though they'd never met, Kylo Ren is obsessed with her. This is one of the main things about a Sue... they're Poochie. Not only are they the best at everything, also all the other characters are amazed and impressed by them.Nobody calls Dr Manhattan a sue, or Lara Croft a Mary Sue, or Samus, or Sarah Connor, or countless other characters that are crazy powerful because they were already in the property from the start and also because in their universe all the other characters don't exist to suck then off.Fucking goddamn.
Luke struggled throughout the entirety of his story. Go back and watch the series and just focus on his point of view. He's young and petulant, so he doesn't get respect from his friends as they refer to him as 'Wormy'. He whines to his uncle, he whines to his robots. He's grounded because he damaged his T-16 threading the needle in Beggar's Canyon and all of his life came crashing down when he came to see his only parental figures were incinerated. He is forced to grow up fast.Luke struggles to learn his way to learn the Force, but his impatience and repressed anger acts a hindrance. He charges recklessly into Vader like he's Sir Galahad and it cost him his hand and his soul. Even in 'Jedi' when he is a fully realized and composed man transformed by his experiences, he still falters and falls into his emotional reactions at the last moment to Vader's taunts and the Emperor's goading. Luke's journey was fucking hard.
>>216019186>family gets murdered>constantly getting lectured by Obi-Wan>was clearly defeated by Darth Vader and mutilated>only kissed by the princess to make Chad jealous>Han Solo doesn't respect him>constantly getting lectured by Yoda>gets his mentor killed>not able to defeat Darth Vader or Palpatine>gets saved by the plotIf Luke was an actual Mary Sue, then everyone would like her and admire her and reinforce that she's competent. She would be liked by her family and her mentor. They would all talk about how awesome she is and how much potential she has. Other characters would talk about her, when she's not there and ask where she is and put all of their hope in her. She would be universally regarded as strong and wise. Also some of her family and mentors would probably not be allowed to die for plot reasons, so they can continue to hype her up and make sure she never develops imposter syndrome.
>>216023993Dooku didn't.
>genderbent Luke is hotter than any woman who has been cast in that shit franchise since
Why did Luke's story is legendary and got billions for Lucas but Ma-Rey Sue's Disney "saga" collapsed with the Last Jedi?
>>216019186Yes, Luke is King Arthur who is instantly good at something. But he isn't effortlessly perfect like a Gary Stu. Even Goku lost his first Tenkaichi Budokai.
>>216021618>Flight of the Memphis BelleAnon, I...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNdb03Hw18M
>>216019186>Leftypol tranny discord is leaking again
>>216019186Is there porn where female Luke and fucking her???
>>216019539>Andorlololololol
>>216019186Give it a rest.Shitting on the only good SW era won't make your dogshit better
>>216028797They can celebrate the box office profit collapsing from half a billion for Ep VII to less than $50 million for Rise of Skywalker.
>>216028828Andor is good though
>>216028909
>>216019626its not that long of a trench, maybe the length of your xwing is below average i'd say
>>216028592> Imperium of ManThought this was star wars not warhammer 40000k wtf?!
>>216028702Because of extremely shitty writing and directors literally undermining the previous story from each other's movies?
>>216028985Yeah, a lot of people were skeptical about Andor but liked it. The ST still fucking sucks, so what?
>>216019186anyone who has met a woman knows they could never do anything like this
>>216019186It's simple. A woman wouldn't be as capable. Women have bad spatial reasoning skills, and if your tranny ass knew any actual women you would already know that. If the whole story was based around a universe where what we know about the sexes was radically altered, it would get the same reaction as "the force" or any other magical nonsense, but they never established that women in "Star Wars" aren't like women in real life, did they? The chuds are just right, and you're just gaslighting or ignorant.
>>216019186>Goes gallivanting around the desert after a droid because of idiotic sentimentality, just like a woman>so incompetent she needs to be saved from Tusken Raiders by Obi Wan>refuses to help save the galaxy. (no man would ever do this)>gets her family killed by not being there to protect them>needs to be saved from criminals at the bar by Obi Wan>ARE WE TO BELIEVE SHE CAN USE THE FORCE PERFECTLY AFTER JUST ONE TRAINING SESSION, WITH OBI WAN SAYING NOTHING BUT "REACH OUT WITH YOUR FEELINGS"???????? WHAT KIND OF FEEL-GOOD FEMINIST BULLSHIT IS THIS???>So incompetent that Prince Liam has to take the blaster from her useless hands and save himself>gets trapped in a garbage compactor like an idiot, needing to be saved by droids>ARE WE TO BELIEVE SHE CAN SHOOT DOWN PROFESSIONAL TIE FIGHTER PILOTS WITH NO TRAINING IN HOW TO USE A QUAD LASER TURRET?>Destroys the fucking Death Star by "using her feelings.">Destroys the fucking Death Star by "using her feelings.">Destroys the fucking Death Star by "using her feelings.">Destroys the fucking Death Star by "using her feelings.">Destroys the fucking Death Star by "using her feelings."DESTROYS THE ENTIRE MOTHERFUCKING DEATH STAR BY USING HER FEELINGS!!!!!!Worst fucking movie ever.
>>216019186bump
>>216019186>But why does the hero save the day? That’s unrealistic.Because he’s the hero, and Star Wars is a fairy tale where good triumphs over evil in the end.Rey is a bad character because she isn’t a character at all. She has no arc or development, and never encounters any real setbacks. She saves the day because in Star Wars ought to and it might as well be her because it wouldn’t make much sense of it was fucking old ass Harrison Ford again.
>>216019186no
>>216019186Luke struggles.Rey doesn't.Simple as.
>>216019186he missed the shot, he had to listen to Obi-Wan telling him to believe in the force, and ignore the computer to land it, he also had to be saved by Han and Chewie and every other rebel pilot that gave their life that day. He couldn’t have done it without everyone there supporting him. Are you pretending to be retarded, or is it legit?
>>216019186Even fatguys could fly X-wings.
>>216019539>KOTORyes sarr i love old republic very very much remind me of vedic hymns
>>216031242You see this kind of stuff because women need to feel good about themselves. The only thing stopping them from being beaten and raped is our benevolence.
Luke got his ass fucked by Tuskans.Didn't save his adoptive parents due to this.Had to watch helplessly as Ben died.Majorly failed his training with Yoda in Empire, refused to listen.Got his ass fucked by Vader to a massively humiliating extent. Completely outclassed.Didn't save Han.Got his hand cut off in the process.Gave in to the dark side against Vader in Return. Almost killed his own father.
>>216028702I want to eat out her vagine.
>>216019186The funny part is that Leia is closer to a Mary Sue than Luke ever was.
>>216019728To be fair, even though DV was always loyal to the dark side, he also always loved his son. It's hard to believe he would betray Palpatine like that but on the other side, the reason he did it was solely because of his son.
>>216019870>>Was being guided by Obi Wan in the final trench run.Bro just told Luke to "use the force" lmao
