Why is there no religion in Middle Earth? Are the characters based Atheists like in Game of Thrones?
Because they all know that Eru is real and Eru doesn't demand worship.
>>216358793is that a tranny hobbit
They worship murdering orc babies in their little orc cribs
LOTR is set before Jesus and the age of man.
It's a children's book series, stop thinking about it so deeply.
>>216358793No yahweh, it's lovely
>>216358793No, they all believe in their respective relevant Gods and Goddesses and also the SuperGod who made everything
>>216358793theyre probably pagan
Maybe the immortals and magicians waking about has something to do with that
>>216359000Sound like Hinduism
>>216359032>Noooo Isildur! Do not redeem the ring saaaar!hehehe
They worship the eagles
>>216358793Because god is actually real in that universe. So what you’re REALLY asking is >why didn’t all the hobbits get up Sunday morning and give all their money to some Jew hobbit so he can bring industry and capitalism to the shire and rape all the hobbit children while the mothers are fathers are at work
>>216358858orcs are born from larva sacs grown in the ground like a turnip and they emerge fully grown, there are no “orc babies”
>>216358793they worship their own race (Aryan)
>>216359298This is the logic of pedophiles.
>Game of Thrones>atheist characters
>>216359298actually there are goblin females. sauronman here just uses magic to instantly create the goblins.
You don't need gaudy palaces full of silver and gold idols to worship God.
>>216359349actually there aren’t you just made that up. orcs are corrupted elves that are duplicated through dark magic and grown in the ground like we see in the movie..
why did Gandalf not realize that the head of his order, Sauronman was in fact, Sauron's man?
>Hitler’s right hand man>name is Himlertoo unrealistic and silly
>>216359244No but it is weird how they aren't offering sacrifices and praying
>>216358793The more they drank the more they shat, but the more they shat the thirstier they grew
>>216359298damn, they're more like niggers than I thought
>>216359406no, hackson made all that up. goblins do have females. read the book.you do t see them cause they are not important and are at home birthing goblins.
>>216359412Ummm akshually he wasn't saurons man but out for himself and thought he could use sauron to gain more power himself.
>>216360474many such cases
>>216358793>GoT>atheistreligions play an enormous role in the show. the northerners are old school and worship trees, southerners worship the seven, then there's stannis who converts to worshipping the fire god, the faceless men who worship death, etc. we see all of these religions and their customs in the show
>>216359373palaces and temples are much older than catholicism
>>216360463orcs and goblins are two different things
>>216358793Characters in game of thrones have different religion. Must be low quality bait.
>>216361007>>216360614>autist finally catches on 9 minutes later
Sauron demands his slaves worship him as a god-king and all the people who are against him see religion in that kind of light, especially since they tend to be friendly with elves who were personally taught by archangels that God doesn't want your worship.
>>216360614Yeah, GOT is one of few fantasy properties to actually get religion right in depicting actual rituals and worship rather than just talking about legends, myths or theology.
>>216361189that doesn't sound very Christian inspired.
>>216361189sauron is yahweh, Middle Earth is Europe fighting the invading Abrahamic hordes.yes want to industrialize and turn Middle Earth into multiculti melting pot 9f shabbos goyim.That is why Aragorn summons his ancestors to fight with him.
All jokes aside, Tolkien took inspiration for LOTR from Beowulf. Tolkien was inventing a hypothetical mythology for England and, like the Beowulf poet, was therefore writing about pre-Christian people despite being Christian himself. The Beowulf poet doesn't make his characters Christians, but he scrubs them of paganism and gives them a pious reverence for a single creator God. They explicitly don't own slaves and they don't offer human sacrifices, though historically they would have done. There's even a scene after Grendel wrecks Meduseld where they "lapse" into paganism out of desperation and offer sacrifices to the gods, and the narrator scolds them for it. Tolkien's approach is similar, though less heavy handed in declaring a Christian perspective. His characters "historically" "would" have been pagans, but they act like Christians. Any time there is an explicit reference to paganism, it's negative, as when Denethor wants to burn himself and Faramir like the "heathen kings of old".
>>216359027Captain America still believed in God
>>216358793Instead, you should be thinking why religion arised at all in humans. Must have been a really incredible set of circumstances that were just right. Because why would prehistoric normies listen to and believe the first-ever local village idiots who claimed to know the supposedly super complicated reasons behind this or that aspect of nature?
it's English revisionist mythology, they probably worship some Celtic or Pictish gods.
>>216358793Its literally pre bronze age Earth, Jesus is still the savior of men, etc. Its not a separate universe as some people seem to think
>>216363298Bronze age is well over a thousand years before Jesus.
>>216361637see >>216363298its a totally Christian world
>>216363313Jesus was pre-destined as Tolkien would be the first to tell you
>>216363313J>. R. R. Tolkien was a devout Roman Catholic from boyhood, and he described The Lord of the Rings in particular as a "fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision".[1][T 1] While he insisted it was not an allegory, it contains numerous themes from Christian theology. These include the battle of good versus evil, the triumph of humility over pride, and the activity of grace. A central theme is death and immortality, with light as a symbol of divine creation, but Tolkien's attitudes as to mercy and pity, resurrection, the Eucharist, salvation, repentance, self-sacrifice, free will, justice, fellowship, authority and healing can also be detected. Divine providence appears indirectly as the will of the Valar, godlike immortals, expressed subtly enough to avoid compromising people's free will. The Silmarillion embodies a detailed narrative of the splintering of the original created light, and of the fall of man in the shape of several incidents including the Akallabêth (The Downfall of Númenor).>There is no single Christ-figure comparable to C. S. Lewis's Aslan in his Narnia books, but the characters of Gandalf, Frodo, and Aragorn exemplify the threefold office, the prophetic, priestly, and kingly aspects of Christ, respectively.
>>216358793there were literally cults worshippping Morgoth and Sauron
>>216358793I am an atheist and I don't I fully understand Tolkiens world view, but I think that from his perspective, people in the third age were spiritually much closer to god than we are today, so organised religion was not really necessaryPerhaps he as a catholic thought that today, spirituality requires a lot of effort and practice, that's why we have an entire institution (catholic church) to educate priest. Back in the third age, the world was much closer to creation, people could just feel the presence of Eru, without the need of any shepards to guide them
>>216360614>>216361221But the point of view characters in ASoIaF do not really believe in They are either explicitly agnostic and cynical (Tyrion), or view the worship as some sort of rituals with no deeper meaning.Basically, most Characters in GoT believe that gods and magic are not real
>>216363416> Basically, most Characters in GoT believe that gods and magic are not realhow were you able to create this conclusionno statistically information available for valid research
>>216363434by reading the books?
>>216358793The good men of Gondor and the middle earth fought against communism and religion coming out of Mordor.
>>216363520This not confirmed in Book
>>216363547proof?
>>216363589Proof requirment stands on the thery proposing human and not on negative side
>>216358793I think that the only people who really worship are the Valar and sorta Numenor. Elves knew of Eru, but they mostly gave Saint-like veneration to the Valar. Numenor mostly left their worship of Eru to their king-priest.>Quote: [Elendil and his sons] established a kind of diminished memory of Númenor in Exile on the coasts of Middle-earth – inheriting the hatred of Sauron, the friendship of the Elves, the knowledge of the True God, [...]. Also when the 'Kings' came to an end there was no equivalent to a 'priesthood': the two being identical in Númenórean ideas. Tolkien quote on Hobbits>I do not think Hobbits practised any form of worship or prayer (unless through exceptional contact with Elves)Hobbits are aware of the Valar because Frodo calls on Elbereth for help at some point. They don't hold worship of Eru because he doesn't ask them to. If you consider Middle-earth as a pre-history (or pre-history parallel history) to our own, this is before Eru eventually decided that humans should know him more personally, which is why our worship are as it is.Religion in Middle-Earth is essentially Tolkien creating a syncretism of ethno-pagan pantheons and Christianity. The Valar are partly the Tuatha Dé Danann/Greek Gods, the ethno-religion of noble pagans. If you haven't read the Silmarillion, from what I remember, Eru essentially shows the Valar "The Plan of the World" and then they enter the world to carry it out and build the mountains and shit. So there is both the One God but also have the creator 'angels gods', creating a syncretism.Interestingly, old and probably non-canon story has First Age Edain believe (you can find this under "Old Hope" and Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth) in the wikis>They say that the One will himself come into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end. This they say also, or they feign, is a rumour that has come down through years uncounted, even from the days of our undoing.
>>216363634You are proposing that the characters in ASoIaF believed in gods and magicplease provide proof
>>216363665Religion is an important of A Song of Ice and Fire, with numerous faiths existing throughout the known world. Belief in higher powers and supernatural threats runs deep in many cultures and influence multiple aspects of life.Citation source including: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Religion
characters frequently say "goodbye", a contraction of "God be with ye".this means they believe in God.
>>216363701there is no evidence than any of the point of view characters believed in gods and magic.
>>216363719they also frequently say "let's throw the faggots into fire"
> Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!>>Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away.Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field ofgreen, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of hishouse, but he was ever before them. Éomer rode there, the whitehorsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the firstéored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden couldnot be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ranlike new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like agod of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar whenthe world was young.
>>216363731You saying> most Characters in GoTnot point charactersthis is confusion moment or maybe a trolling happening...
>>216363778we only know the point of view of point of view characters
Dunadain and elves believe in eru and the valar and yada yada light of the two trees. Dorfs worship manwe i guess.Rohirrim and other norfmen have some sort of pagan style ancestor worship thing going onHobbits propably worship food and the pipeweed
>>216363807You miss typed by writing point of view twice times.we know that zealots made Cercey go on shame walk how this is not prove believing in religion and also depicted in the show.
>>216363891but did they do it because they believe in god or because they were cynical power maxxers, who viewed religion as a tool for political power?
>>216358840FPBP
>>216363645My memory is vague and tired, but I'll expand on my ethno-religion thing: the majority of Elves venerate Varda, the star Valar because she was what they first saw when they opened their eyes. Hobbit's knowledge of the Valar is Elf influenced (Elbereth is another name for Varda). I can't quite remember if I'm making up that sailors and sea-elves venerate Ulmo/Ossë/Uinen more. Some quotes from the wiki>Teleri of Olwë had much love for Uinen>Considered a protector and bringer of calm seas by the mariners of Númenor, they would cry to her for help, while their respect for the Valar endured.What is crying out for help other than veneration? It's a Poseidon type of thing.The Dwarves venerate Aulë (Mahal), also seemed to be involved in ancestor worship (the Durin thing).I honestly think one of the reasons Tolkien never get around to finishing up the Silmarillion was that he didn't want to get shit for pagan-syncretism with the Valar. He already got shit in letters about some lines that made people think Tom Bombadil was the Christian God.>>216363848>Dorfs worship manweF-, you're not getting you're not passing the Tolkien final, anon. See me after class.
>>216363719>say "goodbye", a contraction of "God be with ye".That's only true for English, which doesn't exist in-universe and is only a translation.
>>216358850No. Hobbits are just naturally homely
>>216363996might work for the books, but how does that work in a film? their mouths are moving, we can hear the precise phonemes they're using.also, consider the following:rhymes.
>>216364161>their mouths are moving, we can hear the precise phonemes they're usingIt's an in-camera dub, just like films that are set in random Germany or Ancient Greece where actors speak in English.
>>216363891No, that's actually a correct sentence. He's saying that you only know the point of view of the PoV characters. As in, we don't get inside the heads of the non-PoV characters. It's unwieldy but grammatically correct. You on the other hand typed "Twice times" so I'm afraid you are the soijack.
>>216364220so does each word just-so-happen to take the same amount of time to say as English?
>>216359412He was distracted by the disco lights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qqgPa33mXU&t=100
>>216360694They're not. There's no distinction in the books
>>216363978There is only one God in Tolkien's work. The Valar and Maiar are His own thoughts personified.Since God can and does think of everything - because he is omnicognizant - evil and destruction are also personified, as Melkor, Sauron, Ungoliant etc. The Valar once personified are the instruments of God's composition, the music that brings the universe into being. They are not Gods or even demigods, just angels of varying power.Gene Wolfe, another very Catholic fantasy writer, used the same hack to create novels with multiple "deities" for flavour while still adhering to catholic monotheism doctrine.
>>216364254They don't say these words, phrases, etc at all.Also when an actor lifts a briefcase full of money with ease, it doesn't mean that in-universe the money/briefcase is fake or that the character is super strong. It only means that this is a play-pretend that doesn't accurately reflect the in-universe events.
>>216358793There is faith in the Eru Iluvatar in Middle-Earth, but he is mostly retired, resting, and he has delegated some of his powers to the Valar and the Isstari. By the way, for some strange reason this topic is not sufficiently disclosed in Peter Jackson's films. Perhaps this was done with the hope of increasing planetary sales.
>>216364254Anon, do you think that commanders in medieval / fantasy settings literally shout "FIRE!" to their archers?
look at all these christcucks trying to highjack lord of the rings with their jew god worship.
>>216363731Catelyn and Sansa are both shown to pray multiple times and genuinely believe in the Sevenwhen Davos is dying after the Battle of the Blackwater he begs the Mother to forgive him and is implicitly rewarded by being rescuedMelisandre devoutly believes in the Red God and his power to grant prophecyAeron also has total faith in the Drowned Godstop speedreading
