Can someone explain why the Internet wants me to hate these movies so much?
>>216958821Avatar is the perfect example of a movie that looks incredible and somehow still feels empty, because once you strip away the shiny blue aliens and billion-dollar CGI, you’re left with a reheated Dances with Wolves/FernGully plot, a main character whose personality is basically “guy holding the camera,” a mustache-twirling military villain, and worldbuilding that’s more aesthetic than substance, so yeah it made insane money and pushed technology forward, but it also left basically zero cultural footprint, no iconic lines, no memorable characters, and somehow manages to insist it’s deep while being about as thought-provoking as a really expensive screensaver.
>>216958980Plot is interesting. World building is good. There’s some good lines. There’s lots of memorable characters. Maybe not deep, but has excellent themes about environmentalism, family, and masculinity.
>>216958821Activists in the industry seething because all the studios have been eating shit for years as a result of following their initiatives and Avatar keeps grossly outperforming their projects and showing you don't need the "correct" messaging or "buzz" or whatever stupid contrived metric they've been pushing to keep the gravy train rolling. Avatar is showing that if you make a sincere movie with a halfass decent script the audience will show up. This flies in the face of what they've been insisting to studio execs for years so obviously they're trying to play damage control.
>>216959039Ah yes, the classic “if I say the words confidently enough they become true” defense. The plot is “interesting” in the sense that it faithfully recreates a story everyone has already seen five times, the worldbuilding is “good” because it’s colorful and has trees that glow, the “good lines” are apparently so good they’ve been lost to history, and the “memorable characters” are memorable in that people remember vague archetypes rather than, you know, actual characters. And sure, the themes are there—environmentalism spelled out in crayon, family in the most generic possible way, and masculinity reduced to “learn to punch better but spiritually”—which is fine if we’re grading on a curve, but calling any of this exceptional feels less like analysis and more like being impressed that a very expensive movie managed to be competent.
>>216959064Quaritch and Neytiri are great characters. At the end of the first film, when Neytiri says, “I see you” to Jake when seeing his real body for the first time, it’s a great line and film moment. The story about people trying to protect their family in a world being destroyed by evil corporations resonates with many.
>>216959171Right, but this is kind of the problem—calling Quaritch “great” because he’s loud and Neytiri “great” because she’s emotive doesn’t magically make them deep characters, it just means they function at a basic blockbuster level, and the “I see you” line wants to be profound but is mostly doing symbolic overtime for a romance that speedruns from strangers to soulmates. And yeah, the evil corporation destroying families resonates with people because it’s the safest, most universally agreeable theme possible no moral friction, no complexity, just “corporations bad, nature good” which is fine, but let’s not pretend that hitting broad emotional notes automatically equals strong writing instead of competent, crowd-pleasing archetypes doing exactly what they were designed to do.
>>216959039There are no themes of masculinity. The director said masculinity is a toxin.
>>216959039Zero cultural footprint. These are not "interesting" movies. I would call them gay but even homos like Tom Ford can make interesting movies that are infinitely more watchable than this bottom rung goyslop.
>>216959064>>216959188Grok, engage mechahitler mode. And can you regenerate those outputs without the emdashes please?
>>216959188They’re good characters because of their arcs. Neytiri hating humans, but learning to accept them is done well. Loak dealing with guilt over his brother’s death, fixing his mother’s bow, and helping his dad protect their new home is a great arc. Quaritch transitioning becoming a new man literally and figuratively is interesting to see and done in a pretty unique way. Good characters, good stories.
No one wants to see white saviour movies anymore
>>216958821>Can someone explain why the Internet wants me to hate these movies so m-ACK
>>216958821They want to signal they are cool by not liking what's popular. That's about it. Avatar movies are good and I've enjoyed watching each one.
>>216959207I don’t care what he said. Jake and Quaritch are very masculine characters in different ways. And it’s not portrayed as a bad thing.
>>216959245This is doing that Reddit thing where listing events is treated as the same thing as analyzing writing. An arc existing doesn’t automatically mean it’s well executed. Neytiri going from “I hate humans” to “I accept this specific human” is the most baseline enemy-to-ally trajectory imaginable. Lo’ak’s guilt arc hits the same beats every coming-of-age side character has hit for decades: mess up, feel bad, symbolic repair object, prove yourself. Quaritch being “literally a new man” is an interesting concept, but the films still handle it with blunt-force subtlety rather than real psychological depth. None of this is bad, it’s just extremely straightforward and clearly signposted storytelling, so calling it “great” feels like confusing competence and emotional beats with complexity or nuance.
>>216958821the blue shit looks hideous. this is the reason I hate this franchise. they all look like abominations
The niggercattle don’t like being reminded of the fact that humanity has been destroying the planet since before recorded history.
>>216959275Not every film has to be Andrei Rublev.
>>216959296Nobody is asking Avatar to be Andrei Rublev. The criticism isn’t “why isn’t this a four-hour Russian art film,” it’s “why are we treating extremely basic, mass-appeal storytelling as if it’s secretly deep.” You can enjoy a blockbuster without inflating it into something it isn’t, and pushing back on that doesn’t mean people demand arthouse cinema, it just means they’re capable of telling the difference between accessible, competent filmmaking and genuinely layered writing.
Need me another Avatar fleshlight, pronto
>>216959207Cameron can say whatever retarded shit he wants to appease the faggot. These movie do have themes of masculinity.
>>216959346What's the theme? That betraying your own people and family is good? That's literally the opposite of masculine. Heck, jackesully is, like, the most cucked character to ever exist? Literally? He's literally using another creature's (not even another man's) balls to inseminate an alien and then raise the offspring of that alien-on-alien consort. I genuinely can't imagine anything more cucked than that. Even having a nigger come over to fuck your wife so you can raise his kid is less cucked, because at least that nigger is still partially related to you somehow, somewhere down the line of the family tree everyone on earth shares with each other. Sully doesn't even have that.
>>216959309You cannot convince me that the people throwing online tantrums because other people enjoy the Avatar films are doing so because they’re high class film connoisseurs with that much deeper grasp of writing and filmmaking.
>>216959039>>216959261Mostly internet contrarianism. The movies are fine, some parts are good. The story is pretty weak. Avatar(s) is not the first or only movie with a weak story. It used to be acceptable for a movie to be "good" or "fine" or even "just okay" and not everything had to be a mind blowing experience. Somewhere along the way people decided that everything has to be 110% good or bad. You see this showing up everywhere, movies, politics, products etc.
>>216959403No one’s saying the loudest Avatar haters are secret Criterion monks, but that’s also a complete strawman. Most criticism isn’t coming from people melting down because others enjoy the movies, it’s coming from people pushing back against the constant insistence that enjoying them automatically means they’re secretly profound. You don’t need to be a high-class film connoisseur to notice when a movie is competent, emotionally legible, and visually impressive but also narratively straightforward, and pointing that out isn’t a tantrum, it’s just refusing to pretend that mass appeal equals depth. The real meltdown usually happens when someone says “yeah, it’s fine” and Avatar fans hear “personal attack.”
>>216959445I also think that part of it is people, aka zoomers dont watch very many movies more. Younger people have no idea how many movies people used to watch before the internet took off. Movies were the primary form of entertainment. Some people would people would easily watch 7-10 or more movies a week. With a higher amount of movie watching, you gain a better perspective on what makes a movie good or bad. A lot of people dont have that anymore, they cling to extreme opinions because they dont have the perspective required for nuance.
>>216959395>"buzzwordz, more buzzwords"The main theme of masculinity in these movies: "To be a father is to protect". Litrerally.
>>216958821The first movie is fine. i liked it. It didn't need an expanded story. A vast majority don't.
>>216959395Bruh the Avatar body he inhabitants is grown with his DNA. Did you actually watch the movie or are you getting all your knowledge from faggot YouTube essayists? For fucks sakes just watch it before coming to discuss it otherwise it's a waste of time talking to you.
>>216959538The vast majority of people only watched the first movie and base all their opinions on the half-remembered experience. I’m not going to sit here and say Avatar is high cinema but it’s definitely a very good movie to watch and enjoy before putting aside for the next one. Sometimes movies can just be like that, we don’t need everything to be a marketable hellscape of TikTok shots.
>>216959568the crazy part is compared to some of the absolute garbage being made these days Avatar may as well be high cinema
>>216959279And that's something that can be fixed.
>>216958821I have never seen anyone talk about these movies irl. Ever, I haven't even seen merchandise, how is this raking in billions? Who is watching them?
>>216959842>I haven't seen people talk about these moviesDo you talk to people, anon? Do you go outside and talk to people? Do you have friends?
>>216959863When I did, I heard nothing about Avatar.
>>216959842I saw it last Monday with my mother, sister, grandpa, and nephew. I watched it a second time on Friday. My nephew saw it again last weekend with his dad. My mom is going to see it again next weekend with my step dad. My two step brothers saw it, I assume with their wives, and one maybe with his eldest child. One of my coworkers is planning on seeing it, most likely with her husband.
They're embarrassing and anachronistic. The reason they have no cultural impact is because no one wants to admit they watched them. It's an adult cartoon but trying to do serious commentary about colonialism and ecology instead of weed and dick jokes.
>>216959897I have coworkers that have talked about it FaA. Everyone was talking about the original when it released.
>>216958821no bribes, free passes, or merch given to the terminally online who have declared that they can make, or break, the box office success of your movie. if cameron won't tithe to them, others will stop paying out too. the whole grift might be coming to an end.
>>216959207He can say that and maybe even believe it, but the movies are a refreshing antithesis of modern hollywood's portrayal of the male protector role, which they usually would try to denigrate or kick down. And he's able to do it while having characters like Neytiri who is a woman that is also physically fighting and protecting. It strikes a balance and doesn't come off as anti-male in the films. Absolute power couple stuff. Hell, even the Quarith/Varang stuff was well done and isn't the "powerful girlboss steps on the male villain to show how things are done" trope that hollywood likes to make us watch.
>>216959064Avatar 2 and 3 are among the most masculine films ever made because they explore new frontiers, take technical mastery to new levels, and push what's possible in the medium to new levels. If you don't appreciate 2 and 3 as a man and lover of cinema you are spiritually dead and/or a bitch.
>>216958821The internet likes to collectively bitch. If James Cameron announced that they won't make a Avatar 4 and 5, people will create petitions and bitch about that too.
The one thing missing from FaA was cool new RDA tech. The bigger carrier wasn't cool enough.
>>216958980So... This?
Why has Kumail Nanjiani been on /tv/ lately bitching about the Avatar movies?
>>216958980If you remove the Xeno from Alien you're left with a generic slasher movie. I don't remember any names from The Thing and I rewatched it a couple of months agoNo one ever rated Scifi movies like this. If Avatar doesn't have any cultural impact it's because the audience stopped caring about Scifi, especially space related Scifi
>>216959039>Plot is interesting>There’s lots of memorable characterseeeeeh
>>216958821It's anti white people propaganda
>>216959889Famn, I really am more disconnected than I thought. Holy shit.
>>216960082Anon, you say that about every movie. Maybe you just have a victim complex.
>>216959064>"if i say the words confidently enough they'll become true"You mean like you did in your first post?
>>216960082Literally everything is anon. Music, movies, tv, literature, paintings, sculpture, social spaces, women, all are pitched firmly against the entitled white man and are actively conspiring to deny us the dominion over all that we are entitled to as gods chosen people. I cant believe god is allowing this to happen to his chosen, physically superior, mentally 3rd best people. Is god stupid?
>>21696010499% of all humans in the serie are whites to the point the na'vis call the bad aliens "pinkskins"
>>216958821This is the only IP in existence where I've heard the term 'cultural impact' thrown around. Pretentious pseuds like to deploy it constantly as a criticism, ignoring that every film has left an impression on a lot of people and the industry through the sheer spectacle of the world, advancement of tech, or most recently with the racist man and his gf dynamic that people are enjoying so much.Congrats you figured out it's extremely derivative. Tell us again, you're so clever. So is Halo, so is The Matrix, so is all that marvel slop, but people rarely care to point that out for some reason. A lot of people can't except that a straightforward action/adventure movie with universally appealing themes and a commitment to spectacular presentation does extremely well at getting the general public's butts in cinema seats and it makes them seethe to no end.
>>216960395>God with "g"You have outed yourself. You guys can be really dumb.
>>216960058you're right.
>>216959971Ok fine I will watch your movies James.
>>216959064Show me another movie with >A planet with an atmosphere that supports life but kills humans without a mask>Humans piloting clone bodies>A entire ecosystem created just for the filmThe only thing like it is Call Me Joe and that's a short story from the fifties. There may be elements of Avatar that are derivative but Avatar is using those elements in a way that's stunning to see.
>>216960091Nah it's the same for me. I have a decently wide circle of acquaintances and I don't know anyone who's seen it. A lot of my family and coworkers are older so they actually go to theaters still. I don't really believe anything I read here anymore. It's clear that the site in general is filled with spam and /tv/ is particularly bad. I was on /tv/ when Avatar and Avatar 2 released. There weren't nearly this many threads desperately fellating every aspect of the movie. I went back to check the archive and it just confirmed my memory. There were a handful of threads and they were all hovering around 10-20 posts. You could say 'oh it's the 3rd movie that's the good one' but from what I've seen they're also doing the same for 1 and 2.
>>216958821I think it’s some kind of leftist psyop. The commie libtard kamalafornians are trying to get me to hate Avatar.It won’t work.
>>216960957Thank you. Please enjoy.
>>216961155What you say is entirely possible. HOWEVER.I will repeat what I said in another Avatar thread. I slept with an Indonesian prostitute about a week ago (in Indonesia). When we were discussing about our hobbies, she told me she went to see the movie in the cinemas there. I thought: if this random girl show it, it must be really popular there too. If avatar is really popular in fucking Indonesia of all places, imagine how many people are seeing it.
>>216961838>it must be really popular there too.That would make sense. There are far more third worlders online than there were during the releases of 1 and 2.
>>216958821they're too fucking long for having a plot that's about as deep as a paddling pool, highly questionable "magical natives" tropes, some truly wooden acting from the leads, and while the visuals are extremely good, they aren't enough to carry a fucking 3+ hour movie.
>>216962039I thought the 2nd film had pacing issues. The 1st and 3rd were fine.
>>216958821Because these movies are honest slop.And by honest slop, I mean they don't care if they are unoriginal, pander to everyone or have some memorable writing, impact or meaning. They are here just to be as comercial as posible and collect money selling 3D CGI, just like Fast and Furious is here to sell you puré car action.Now you might think, who hate this? Capeshitters, Onions Wars fans and so on. Retards that are hooked to hypercommercial money printing souless franchises but somehow try to convince themselves it's kino, a personality or deep high writing. Avatar is like a harsh and crude parody of what they really support, and that really upsets them. And more since they can’t beat Avatar in terms of grossing money bragging, when they were pretty much the ones that invented it to justify their slop.
>>216958821the movie isn't made for permanently online redditors. There are no characters for them to self-insert in. It doesn't have constant self-deprecating jokes. It's incredibly honest and transparent with its themes. There are no references, in jokes, member-berries or "funny" pandering to them. This has left them seething since 2009. That each movie is extremely successful and resonates with a huge audience hurts even worse because it reveals that their entire life is in a small bubble that's completely disconnected from reality
>>216958821avatar has some of the best world building ever put to film. that alone makes it a good movie, even if you want to be a cynic about everything else.
>>216959064Fuck off, autist. No one is trying to sell you on liking it. Your opinions are your own and many disagree with you.
Even if the third one made literally zero dollars it would still be the most financially successful trilogy of all time lol
>>216963431Exactly. Posts like this >>216959064 are just a long winded way of saying "People can’t possibly like what I don’t like, they must be pretending.” Classic self centered autism.
>>216963489Based and robustly true
