Salieri believes discipline, seriousness, and moral effort are supposed to be rewarded with greatness, and Mozart’s existence shatters that belief. If Salieri weren’t bound to that idol, Mozart wouldn’t be an insult to him, he would literally just be a genius to admire like everyone else does. The hatred isn’t envy in the simple sense, it’s theological resentment. Mozart doesn’t steal anything from Salieri, he just proves the contract Salieri thought he had with God was never real. The entire point of the movie is that beauty is a fragile thing and it is important NOT to moralize it. Salieri only hates Mozart because he’s trapped in a false idea of God. Salieri was given the best of all gifts, which was to "know the incarnation" of good music. He kept expecting that God would give him the gift to please others, but God gave him the best of gifts, which was to be pleased by others. Mozart is famous, yes, but he died a miserable death in poverty, leaving his family to fend for themselves.
I thought it was basically meant to be a tragedy that shows the friction between productivity and creativity. If Salleri had helped Mozart with discipline and work ethic he could have fully realized his potential, but because of Salieri's envy his work, and potentially his life, was cut short. Salieri is secretly filled with regret for not supporting a born genius
>>216962692It's like the difference between works and faith in Christianity. Some believe you have to earn heaven by doing good. Others that you automatically get it when you "accept Jesus".
>>216962692Exactly, and it taps into deep aspects of the human condition. It's a representation of Cain and Abel. Soliari had made a good life for himself, and his own hubris was his downfall. Soliari refused to count his own blessings and check his ego, which lead him down the path of expecting God to serve him, instead of the other way around.
The whole premise of the movie felt so childish and forced and they made mozart so fruity
>>216962829It is, and Salieri only figures it out too late, to the point that the grief drives him to insanity. If he had supported Mozart he would've had the credit of being the man behind the genius. I used the OP image as an example. Salieri promises to make good music if God will let him, and in the opening scene he plays the piano, is pleased with the music, looks over at the cross and says "Grazie, signore", as a sign of thanks to his patron. God was giving Salieri the chance to be a patron like Himself, but Salieri was too insulted to do that. He couldn't keep his pride in check.
I really love Amadeus, but OP's take is... normal? That's what the movie is about, I don't know why you act as if it was some sort of discovery.
>>216963090you'd be surprised by a lot of people's take of the film
Amadeus is Jewish garbage. Salieri was cordial with Mozart.
>>216963138Yeah but that doesn't make for as interesting of a movie
>>216963138Amadeus is unironically an allegory for the relationship between Jews and Goyim. Even the actor that plays Salieri looks like a Jew.
>>216963090What's wrong with that? You watch a film and "discover" what it's about.>>216963120Such as?
salieri spent most of his time trying to climb the social ladder and very little time on music. mozart just made music and was hoisted up the social ladder. that's the point of the movie. that's the core of the resentment. salieri was "serious" only because he needed the approval of others. mozart was only serious when making music.if you want to expand this, its about "adults" who tell themselves they need to sacrifice every childish instinct or behavior in order to "grow up" who then see more successful people who didn't, who now do things they can't (be imaginative, inquisitive, act without pretense, etc) and are rewarded for it.
>>216963185>Such as?that the entire movie was a warning against hubris and god was punishing him
very good movie but i was incredibly disappointed afterwards to find out the entire thing is completely fictionalized, even the depictions of the people themselves
>>216963188He wouldn't have been as good as Mozart no matter how much he practiced.
>>216962692>>216962829>>216962925Salieri reject divine beauty, otherwise he would have put these divine saggers into his mouth. That's why God punishes him. The message of the movie is that God hates fags
>>216962692Discipline to make banger hits? Lmao. Salieri is a retard and he should fuck off to be a tax collector.
>>216963322She was so fucking cute i fapped to every scene in that fuckin film and it trained my dick to spring wood any time i see her. my cock almost exploded when the topless outtake dropped.
>>216962692IRL salieri was a huge womanizer with bastard kids and several wifes
>>216963223Well no. As usual you’ve swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction. Just because *some* of it was dramatized for making it a good 2hr story, doesn't mean the whole thing was fiction. His upbringing & fucked relationship with his father, his appearances & performances, time with the royal court, money troubles & bad tutoring work, his childish obscene humor & typical shenanigans of being a child star with a postponed adulthood. He did die writing the Requiem & a student actually finished it. He was also described as having an irritating laugh, but without a recordings or a time machine no one has any way of knowing what that would have sounded like (or if the austrain writer just found his unserious demeanor annoying in general) so Tom Hulce made one up. Are you mad he didnt invent time travel? Do you think all movies set in the past are more historically accurate from a single correct perspective? They mashed up several characters in Mozarts life into a single character and pitched him as salieri bc it makes it a far more personal struggle instead of just watching Mozart get picked apart by one random party after another the whole film which is just tedious & boring.
>>216962692Saliera was a midwit with self awareness. He does what all midwits do.Blame God for their problems.
>>216963840he wanted an accurate historical description of the facts anon. That’s why instead of reading any of the million or so books on the subject, he watched a movie.
>>216963917What's funny is that he didn't even have a problem. God was blessing him with a young man who needed structure and guidance. That's the whole idea. Mozart was the gift, Salieri sacrifices him, and God rewards him with enlightenment.
every culture that has produced great beauty has moralised the fuck out of the concept of it. stop coping. you live in the prime era for non moralised art and it’s all dogshit
>>216963997That wasn't the point. The point is that you don't need to be a moral person to create good art. And most beautiful art even from the past was made by immoral people. Da Vinci was a homosexual and Caravaggio was a murderer. Even to this day most good art is produced by immoral people.
>>216963948Looking to ascribe complex relationships, motivations communications & actions to the will of the gods as mere blessings and rewards for others is a level of foolishness even cave dwellers had the wisdom to describe as insufficient. What the fuck is it doing here in 2025.
>>216964077It is a story. A story.
>>216963997Theres a fucking shitload of great and skilled art being made. If youre not seeing it you need to get off the fucking internet and show up.
>>216964074Everyone is immoral to some extent and no, artists are rarely exceptionally immoral people. Most had pretty boring lives actually. Their art however represented values beyond the lives they lead, if it’s truly great. >>216964113You’re typical of the kind of person who has this opinion because you probably think anime is genuinely good.
>>216964219>Everyone is immoral to some extentI think that's the idea I was trying to express. We are mixtures of good and evil, and in spite of that we can produce beautiful things. Beauty, truth, and goodness form a triad of supreme values, but are nevertheless distinct. Art is always a divergence from the truth, and it does not necessarily need to communicate a moral message in order to be beautiful. And it is a mistake to confuse being good with being beautiful or capable of producing beauty.
>>216964321True, good and beautiful are all the same thing. Art is a miniature story that tells the truth by analogy (which is what all good education also does). You do not need to be a good person to be a good artist, but to be a great artist you need some grasp on what a good person ought to be. You are mistaking living a perfect life with that.
>>216964425>True, good and beautiful are all the same thing.They're different modes of the same thing. Truth is concerned with essence, goodness is concerned with action, and beauty is concerned with form.>Art is a miniature story that tells the truth by analogy (which is what all good education also does).Analogy can only communicate simulacra, never the truth itself. The truth has to be directly experienced.>You do not need to be a good person to be a good artist, but to be a great artist you need some grasp on what a good person ought to be.Agreed, knowledge of the good is necessary to produce art that captures the essence of evil, which is its lack. Most of what we find beautiful is harmony in the midst of disharmony. Meaning ascribed to what is apparently chaotic.
>>216962829>creativitynot creativity, talent
>>216962692No.
I think you are right in the sense that Salieri did not understand his own skill. But also reflects the tension between raw talent vs hard work.Mozart was a genius but lacked the self discipline you get from hard work.
>>216962692Always fun to remember that RL Salieri was an ultra-chad with like eight children and countless mistresses and he routinely shot the shit with his good court pal Mozart.None of this (albeit pretty good) movie bullshit.
>>216962692JESUS BADWORSHIP THE IDOLATRY OF MANThat's the lesson from Hollywood
