I'm late to the party on this but I watched an episode of Star Trek for the first time ever (TNG, The Defector) and I'm just absolutely blown away. The episode was smart, tense, well acted. It was QUIET. Scenes had time to breathe. There was SUBTLETY. The characters were all professional and acted like they would in a real military organization. I was BORING and I liked it. I've seen commercials for newer ST shows and it's all YELLING and SHOOTING. The only dumb thing in the episode was that they didn't search the Romulan guy and find his suicide pill he had on him. I feel like in real life the first thing they would have done is at least go through his pockets, damn. Is all retro Star Trek this good?
>>217062496That's my all time favorite episode as well, OP. If you watch the series, you can skip season 1 and 2 (except watch Measure of a Man), and just start with S3. It only starts to get shaky during S6 and S7, because they were running out of ideas and everybody was kind of over the show, but the series finale is one of the best.
>>217062536I can't stand you faggot "skip" early seasons because they aren't as strong. Season 1 starts with one of the best episodes of all time you retard why would you not watch it all?
S1 was during a writer's strike and they reused scripts from an abortive ST sequel series, plus they had a very low budget. The series was a suprise hit, so they increased the budget for S2 and it looks a bit better.They icnreased it again for S3, and a big change is they increased the lighting for all the sets. You can immediately notice how dark S1-S2 is, compared to the much brighter S3 onwards.A big difference is Roger D. Moore became head writer for S3, and this is in fact an episode he wrote. He for better or worse dirves the direction of the series onwards. For better: they're mostly great eps.For worse: he introduces major plot threads which dominate the latter season and supposed to dovetail into DS9 and Voyager but no one gave a shit. DS9 is Moore pandering to all his own tastes and it alienated many, many fans, and effectively killed the hype and momentum TNG created.The original series is effectively filmed theater. Take that as you will. The acting is very theatrical and it's a few sets for most episodes.
>>217062496>There was SUBTLETY.
>>217062496>I was BORING and I liked itDunno about that...>Is all retro Star Trek this good?The tone/pacing you describe is typical. And while not all of it's as good, a lot is, and some is even better IMO. And nearly all of it's at least comfy. Now you begin to see what a monstrous act of vandalism has been visited on the franchise.
>>217062912Cry about it, Season 1 and 2 is dogshit. Also, Encounter at Farpoint is far from "the best episode of all time".
>>217062496Strange news worlds is tng level now. The biggest issues is it goes so deep into lore most "Gen z" fans are unaware of og canonThe holodeck episode is the best example. Holodecks popped up 40 years ago in the cartoon. Gen z fans were unaware and you can find the trolls. Major grin is hilarious because he does this Colbert thing.
>>217062536Patrick Stewart was getting bitchy and he wanted more money or to leave the show. The compromize was to end the show at S7, then make a new Star Trek show called DS9 and then make a bunch of films to cash out. On paper: best plan ever, everyone makes $$$.In reality? It killed a popular show at the peak of its popularity and replaced it with a show that most people abandoned (DS9 got less popular over time). And the films were middling at the box office. Turns out most ST TNG fans were casuals and put it on the background but not fanatical enough to show up to a movie theater.Just letting Patrick Stewart leave would have been a better option and have 1-2 more seasons. On paper the show stars Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes, the rest are supporting or guest actors thus they're paid way less. It doesn't matter if the entire episode focuses on Beverley Crusher, the title card will proudly announce it stars Frakes and Stewart, and screw everyone else. Also, the main characters are required to get lines in every episode more or less, so they have a bunch of needless scenes where they check in with LaForge and he says nothing important, or whatever.
>>217063152>Strange news worlds is tng level nowkys zoomer
>>217063087S1 sits in a strange place, because visually, thematically, tonally, it feels like a continuation of the original series. It feels and looks very dated, like it came straight out of the 1960s. They can't decide of Troi has to wear a uniform or not (it's not settled for entire seasons). Her standard wear is this strange bodysuit and strange hair. It's extremely out of place. The extremely low budget really harms S1-2 as they shoot most everything, including outdoor scenes on sound stages and cheap backgrounds. This is fine if you're in some conference room, but if you land on an alien planet I shouldn't be able to tell it's a tiny ass room with a colored background. They start to shoot more on location S3 onwards, and it looks very standard California (deserts, or forests).
>>217063176Fuck off, you are boring.
>>217063167>noooooo why dont the three interchangeable episodes that focus on dr. crusher not have a huge title card saying STAR TREK TNG STARRING GATES MCFADDEN it's not fair!wtf man
>>217063223
>>217063245It's because the actual content of each episode has no bearing on who counts as the "stars' of the show, versus guest stars or recurring episodes. The show's contract says one thing, the content another. Gates or anyone else is paid the same if they're barely in an episode or if they're center place. Riker being the co-star of the show is laughable since he's rarely anyone's favorite. More people liked Geordi for instance. Riker was often on par with fucking Troi. Picard at least had a lot of fans.
This is the darkness I was talking about. S3 onwards (including Voyager) they brighten things.OP, check out Voyager or at least check an episode guide. It's like discount TNG. It's cheaper, it's not as good, but it hits some of the same feelings. Neelix is a fag who should have died in S1.
>>217063329S3 onwards: the show got WAY brighter.
>>217063167absolutely nobody would have watched a season of TNG without Piccard
>>217063293isnt that that just how tv shows work thopeople dont watch star trek to see troi sense impending mindrape but to see picard say make it sowhich isnt to say the other characters dont have their fans or justificaitons for exisiting it just strikes me as weird to complain about a show focussing/advertising its popular characters
>>217063087NTA, but dude. I agree with you on Farpoint - though he said *one of* the best - but the first two seasons aren't that bad, and are sprinkled with some genuinely good eps. And if OP gets into TNG, he's going to wind up watching them anyway. It's not as if there's an infinite amount of (actual) Star Trek content out there, and he's not going to have the time. There's a lot, but nothing at all after ENT.I'd add to OP (if you're serious):1. Don't listen to any posters who insist *any* nutrek (Trek made post-ENT) is good. It's all shit and woke in a way previous (actual) Trek never was.2. You'll hear it argued that the Trek formula which you partly touched on (problem-solving/exploration of moral dilemmas by likeable professionals, with mostly slow pacing and an optimistic tone) had grown stale by the early 00s. This is probably true, so a shake-up was warranted. It doesn't justify what they did, though. There were countless ways they could have reinvigorated the franchise, but they chose instead to turn it into what you described - yelling and shooting - plus crying and woke lecturing.
>>217063393No one? We got 7 seasons of the guy, I can live with him leaving. The show was huge and they could make a big storyline about Picard existing. I think that TNG should have been America's "Dr. Who" where they just recast a new Captain every 5-7 seasons to pilot the USS Enterprise. I would have been fine with Janeway taking over as long as the writing was good. Katherine Mulligan was fine, just let down by some of Voyager's questionable writing at times. >>217063435>>217063393Because the money isn't spent on the most popular actors with the most focus, it's set up as two stars and some supporting cast. The cast budget was the big driving force to ending the show at S7 as everyone was asking for more money.
>>217062496Next time watch the superior Star Trek
>>217063293Riker was basically the backup plan if fans didn’t take to the bald diplomatic peacenik Captain Picard. So when Picard was well received the show didn’t really need the man of action who punches people the face and sleeps with green skinned space babes as much (I know I’m exaggerating both characters)
>>217063607Oh I know the plan, Riker was meant to be the away commander and man of action versus Picard who was the ship's captain and diplomat. People made fun of Star Trek even back then that the ship's captain is running around on away missions, when he's much more suited to being on the ship. Picard was fine staying on the ship and getting status reports and issuing commands, and the writer's usually gave him something to do when on the ship so he wasn't just inactive. ie Riker leads the away mission, tries to solve some mystery, while Picard is up in the ship with some hostile alien ship in his face saying they're gonna blow them up if they don't get their way.
>>217063245>>217063435Because Stewart and Frakes got paid WAY more than everyone else on the show. Data was the breakout star of the series, and a fan favorite. Lots of people like Geordi and Worf as well. Troi and Crusher had some fans as well. Ensign Ro dominates the last season even though she's a guest character and paid piddling amount compared to the "stars". You see how this might cause friction on the set, as well as impede the ability to continue the show? I think the main cast should have been paid the same. They'd have a reason to keep going for more sesaons.
>>217063167>Turns out most ST TNG fans were casuals and put it on the background but not fanatical enough to show up to a movie theater.Bullshit. The trek fans that cared stopped showing up because the movies were fucking awful, and very un star trek. Most of them are big retarded action movies, and Insurrection is just a flat out mediocre TNG 2 parter episode. Compare them to the TOS movies, its absolutely embarrassing. Not including Generations obviously which is heinously stupidEverybody believed until nu trek that Nemesis would be the worst fucking thing trek would ever do. Nu trek found new lows previously incomprehensible
>>217063223Troi is a funny character in general. Here you have a hot woman who likes to wear skin tight bodysuits around be your therapist. Oh and she can literally sense your emotions as well. “I can tell you’re feeling horny”
A general comment I've been making is that TV-Film has gotten dumber, and more action focused since the introduction of smart phones. The media has to compete with the box in your hand, and they just assume you're a 25-35 year old woman scrolling instagram or tiktok while watching now. Since the writers are all social media addicts, they don't consume media either (they don't read, watch few tv shows), and they want to impress their peers and comment on current events. So the reference pools diminishes. You can check and see that a lot of TNG and the original Star Trek episodes are actually just adaptions of sci-fi short stories in sci-fi magazines. Writers were also using their own experiences (sometimes literally having fought in WW2), and their favorite media as inspiration. Smaller refence pools means that this is just vanished, and it's gone.STudios also want mass appeal junk, and everything seems the same now.
>>217063717Marina Sirtis was keen to develop her characer and chose an ethnically ambiguous accent inspired by Israeli accents. Then Troi's mom shows up and bam zero accent, and zero effort. Roddenberry just created the character to give his wife an easy once a season recurring character (and more $$$). Did you know Betazoids have black fucking eyes? No colored iris for them. With the low resolution TVs, I just unconsciously assumed she had dark brown eyes and it blended together. Sitris had to remind later film and streaming series make up people about this.
>>217062496I've only ever really got invested in TNG and I've seen the whole series at least 5 times at this point and tonally almost all episodes are like this. It was a better time. Enjoy.
>>217063904That's interesting. I know Sirtis takes the role very seriously and was very grateful for it as the only jobs she was getting before TNG was stuff like "Rape Victim #3" in Death Wish sequels.
>>217062496Apparently I'm a contrarian here but for me the earlier seasons on repeated watches stand out as being better / more interesting while the later seasons drag down (except DS9 which stay strong except for weak plotholes in the finale honestly). Like if you watch the first three seasons of Voyager you get some killer dark susenseful episodes and it actually feels like they are stranded far from home in a hostile unknown area of space. Later on it just becomes blonde with big tits and singing hologram episode due to declining ratings at the time and it shows.Anyways watch Real Trek^tm. And then other retro shows like I dream of Genie if you like the well thought out writing and pacing.
>>2170634753. Nutrek fans/shills are very few in number but extremely persistent and possibly the worst people in the world. They exist in a constant state of cognitive dissonance. One moment they'll say that Star Trek is all about being inclusive; the next they'll denigrate anyone white and male. One moment they'll claim people who dislike nutrek aren't real Trek fans; the next they'll deride all pre-JJ/Kurtzman Trek as boring shit for "geezers" - and the next they'll pretend to like some aspect of it for argumentative purposes (e.g. saying the make-up/prosthetics in TOS was basic but did the job, so that justifies the shitty plastic appearance of the gay Klingon in the forthcoming show they'll spunk millions on). They're claim everyone else is a NEET loser with nothing better to do... while merrily trolling away all day, every day. Push back and they'll pretend not to understand what you've said, and ignore all points they're unable to refute (which will be nearly all of them), or simply resort to insults - or vanish when the demolition of their self-contradictory nonsense gets too much. They'll always return, though, and they'll never stop interjecting with their vacuous shite, let alone establish their own threads for dedicated discussion of nutrek. Because they're trolls, and nutrek is essentially one giant troll, devoid of anything that would merit serious discussion. Not so gradually you'll begin to hate them.
>>217063018Basically he stole the plot of b5
>>217063052>Dunno about that... Zoomers consider "boring" to be a feature now.
Normie opinion honestly. Once you watch TNG as much as I have you get bored of episodes like that. Watch an episode like The Royale or Elementary Dear Data. Those are peak comfy.
>>217062536Such a retard opinion. I hate you.
>>217063993And then afterward she went back to doing straight to DVD garbage and reprising her role in other ST franchises in limited appearances.She’s probably set for life but it’s not like TNG propelled her into some awesome acting career. The only one who became a household name is Stewart and he was an established actor before putting on the red jumpsuit.
>>217063712The problem with the movies (and the picard series) is you can easily tell which parts are the result of Stewart being a lil bitch and insisting he get to do something. As tng went on you can see Picard shift from being Picard to just Stewart roleplaying himself
>>217064285He looks like he's having the time of his life driving that stupid dune buggy.
>>217064285TNG was almost the perfect length, even 1 more season would likely have brought the average down pretty hard. Season 7 has a lot of red flags popping up. Many of the actors clearly look like they exhausted with the show, some episodes are really bad in a way where you can't even understand why they thought it was a good idea. There are still good episodes though.We were lucky they were sitting on a really good finale to cement its legacy though.
>>217064285Stewart is a skinny bald old man, but he for some reason wanted to be a ladies man and action star? As the seasons went, Picard rolled up his sleeves more and did more action episodes. They also gave him a holiday episode where he scores some chick. The show's premise is almost certainly written around Picard and Crusher hooking up and rekindling their romance but Stewart likely didn't want that. And I'm certain that Wesley is supposed to be Picard's secret son (imagine some Sci-fi nonsense where they covered it up and changed his dna or something). Star Trek Nemesis is entirely pandering to his ego and it's worse for it. Wall to wall action where Picard is apparently the world's most dangerous man who is a wrecking crew gunning down hundreds of supposedly dangerous alien gunmen.
>>217064332Stewart is a fine actor but an absolute retard in real life.>Bookish, uptight Picard should be John McClane suddenly! (OK, so I liked that episode)>Bookish, uptight Picard should like dune buggies suddenly!>Picard, who was only ever into horses, should be a dog person suddenly!>Let's make this space show about Brexit! Brexit evil!>I'm eternally a working-class Brit because I grew up in a house with an outside toilet!
>>217064456When he retconned Picard's mom to be a schizo who hangs herself instead of getting treatment (it's the fucking 24th century) because he wanted to insert his own family drama
>>217064048Look at the absolute state of /trek/ right now, that's what nutrek has done lolLower Decks also opened the floodgates to truly insufferable "people"
>>217064365Yeah, I'm reviewing some S7 episodes (I watched them out of order as a kid) and they do have some stinkers. But they were doing some interesting things:1. Troi actually becomes a fully fledged commander. Then the series ends. lame. 2. Ensign Ro - fan favorite and she's barely in the series then just vanishes. She needed a part 2 and should have become a villain or got redemption. It's so lame she just vanishes. 3. Macquis - this is lame and I never liked them. There's some great TNG Macquis/Cardassian episodes but the story drags on and they clearly wanted them to be a "faction"This is lame because the idea and appeal is that humanity has united. A new renegade human faction sucks. I wanted the Macquis crushed like insects. Macquis cancer infects Voyager and DS9 as well. It long overstays its welcome. 4. Lower Decks - could easily be its own series. We needed more of those characters or kind of episodes. 5. Sub -Rosa the most bizzare and out of place ST:TNG episode. It's a decent episode if you completely ignore it's a ST episode, as it's clearly written as some 19th century British Ghost story. 6. Masks another stinker. Conclusion: they had some stinkers, but also some highs, and had enough new ideas to propell them forward.
If Stewart was being a bitch, they could have replaced him with a new captain and probably be better. Phase out the old cast for characters we saw in DS9 and VOY and avoid those new series instead. Cast salaries were teh biggest cost in later TNG seasons, and they thought they could just replace everyone with new characters and it'd stick. Half the cast of DS9 are boring and don't fit and the new setting killed the themes and momentum of the show. Moore also reasoned wrongly that the appeal was the lore and setting, so he kept making more elaborate storylines and backstories, and created this new Macquis-Bejore-Cardassian storyline which was to dominate Star Trek for the next decade. Meanwhile it was the episodic nature of seeing this likeable competent cast handle the new problem of the week. >Replace Picard with new captain >Data is promoted to captain of his own ship>once a season do a Data guest star episode>Enterprise remains the focus >Picard is now an admiral and shows up once a season >
>>217064492>When he retconned Picard's mom to be a schizo who hangs herself instead of getting treatment (it's the fucking 24th century) because he wanted to insert his own family dramaThere's an episode of futurama where "old footage" from the 2970's has a groovy 1970's and is on an old 1970's tv.There's an episode of lunatics unleashed (futuristic show) where they see black and white footage (to indicate that its still the distant future but the "past" for the futuristic protagonist) of a flying space train.
>>217064647...your point?Picard's mother lived to a ripe old age, in the proper canon. His father was not abusive, and the Picard family did not live in WW2 era France.
>>217064635DS9 is great you fag. I'm not going to shit on a follow up series that actually smarted itself up rather than dumbed itself down. Even if you are right that DS9 killed trek momentum (whatever the fuck that means when 3 more series came after it), it wasn't because of audience pandering like what came after.Thats what voyager is, dumber tng. Talk about killing momentum.
>>217064492Fuck, yeah. That too. The guy should never be permitted to have any creative input (not that that wouldn't have been abysmally shit anyway). Just shut up and say the lines.
>>217064741DS9 is definitely a slow burn. It’s rough being ripped away from the episodic coziness of the Enterprise and TNG. But by the end I did enjoy how DS9 turned the themes of Star Trek and the Federation itself on its head a bit. I see why people like it.
>>217064741>Even if you are right that DS9 killed trek momentum (whatever the fuck that means when 3 more series came after it),Star Trek was described as relying upon "the fumes of TNG for over a decade". Just look at how strong TNG's Neilson ratings were, and how DS9 took a nose dive. I have fond memories of DS9, but find the early seasons were a joke. Everyone at the playground mocked the Rumplestilskin episode for instance. It isn't until Worf shows up and it becomes the TNG continuation series with him and O'Brien that I start to like it. DS9 is a totally different show, totally different vibe, and they really wanted an entire series built around what amounts to a mall and the Cardassians and the Macquis. The scale is tiny compared to TNG. People loved the glamorous crusie ship feel of TNG and how bright it is, and how they're going on adventures in the stars. DS9 is more cynical, visually darker (even the uniforms are less colorful), and it is set on some dreary Cardassian ship. It's almost custom built to alienate TNG fans.
>>217064920The fact that Voyager exists kind of undercuts your whole argument, it torpedod even faster than DS9. You are also leaving out the god awful TNG movies that were happening around the same time too.TNG was trending down regardless of DS9 anyway according to that graph.It's not fair to blame DS9, when the ip was collectively over saturated by 3 shows (2 of them pretty bad) and 4 grossly terrible movies. Regardless of all that, DS9 is actually good so who cares. And the quality of the past shows is made completely insignificant when placed next to the monolith of shit that is nu trek
>>217065049>The fact that Voyager exists kind of undercuts your whole argument, it torpedod even faster than DS9.DS9 was on CBS and Voyager was on UPN, a station not everyone had and it was way up there in the numbers so it was easy to ignore. They thought the Star Trek fans would follow Star Trek to a new station, instead they didn't. So turns out the show had massive, massive, massive, general appeal, and the fanatical fans were just loud but a minority of the fanbase. The fanatical ST fans stayed with these series, but the majority of people tuned out after TNG ended. Is Voyager TNG? Nope. It doesn't have Data, Laforge, Picard, etc and it has a new name, on a new station. Most TNG fans just wanted a comfy sci-fi escapist show on CBS. DS9 was not it. The DS9 and VOY cast were weaker too - they initially had to be severely tweaked. Half the Voyager cast is bland, and DS9 has some bland characters too. Both needed new blood - 7of9 and Worf to feel complete.
>>217064920>>217065150DS9 is the best Star Trek product and how low-ish ratings?HOW EMBERASING
>>217065150I tried getting through Voyager (used a skip guide to cut out the crap episodes) and I kind of just gave up. Even the best episodes of the show still feel like a diet version of TNG, and not really in a good way.
>>217065150I reject your premise that appealing to normies is what matters. If DS9 was as retarded and lazy as Voy then maybe I'd care.DS9 also has the best collective cast of any Trek show. Bashir and Dax are kinda meh sure but then you have: Quark, Odo, Kira, Dukat, Garak, Weyoun, Nog, Worf and OBrien again etc.TNG has Picard and Data. Worf and OBrien are on average worse in TNG too.
>>217064741>>217064920The franchise peaked in 1991-1996 and then gradually declined. People simply lost interest, it happens with everything. The common opinion was also that DS9 was "boring" and VOY was just "TNG 2.0" (ironic, given that a lot of people would have preferred more TNG).
>>217065336That's not correct, TNG S7 had massive ratings. Some of the audience checked out DS9, but they didn't take to it and the ratings quickly plummeted. Just because it said "Star Trek", doesn't mean people are just going to switch over and DS9 was simply too different, too weird, too off putting, and the scale was way too narrow. S1 of DS9 is some of the roughest, ugliest, series of episode as well, and it had a rougher start than TNG did. >>217065242For me, every time there was a Voyager re-run on TV, Id' put it on, bitch endlessly about it but watch the entire thing. It's diet TNG, and very formulaic but I find the formula comforting.
>>217065428>and it had a rougher start than TNG did.No fucking way dude. TNG s1 barely even knows how to wipe its own ass (mostly).Main problem in DS9 season 1 is the setup for the world takes too long and its kinda bland. There aint a s1 tng episode even half as good as Duet at the very least.
>>217063329That's just 4:3 black bars anon
>>217065428This episode was infamous specifically because it was when most of the people in my friends group as well as the school tuned out of DS9. It took me years and years to convince my friends group that DS9 got good, and that Worf and the Defiant changed the dynamic of the show and it's moved past being the Rumpelstiltskin show. >>217065478Farpoint two parter is at least a fun adventure story, with some neat visual effects, against a new dangerous antagonist foe and a neat twist at the end. S1 has a good cast and some charm. Much of S1 and S2 is fucking around this dreary prison-mall and some bullshit problem comes to them. It's utterly unappealing to Prime Normals.
>>217065201They went from a bright optimistic space adventure show to hanging around a dreary mall following mall cops. On paper, the proposal for DS9 is so insane I can't believe they actually went with it, and thank GOD they added the Defiant and the Dominion later on. Oh and Nog's rise is pretty interesting. Terok-Nor still makes my skin crawl and it looks and feels like a prison with each room being a prison cell. Imagine 9 fucking seasons of them hanging around this ugly prison, periodically entertaining some Cardassians, and hearing Bajorans whine about the Occupation? All while Jake is running around?Jake or Nelix who is worse?
>>217065336>That's not correct, TNG S7 had massive ratings.I just said the peak was 1991-1996. TNG S7 aired in 93-94. And there was still a lot of hype between Generations and First Contact.
>>217065581Filtered.Farpoint is probably the best s1 tng ep (that or Symbiosis), and its also a huge mess, but fairly enjoyable relatively speaking. It's a pretty hard sell to a trek nubie to watch as a first episode though.There is nothing in s1 DS9 as close to as bad as eps like Naked Now, Code of Honor or Where No One has Gone Before.The worst 2 s1 Ds9 eps If Wishes were Horses (your pic) and Move Along Home aren't that fucking annoying. Wishes is at least campy classic TOS nonsense that at least feels like it was written in the 90s
DS9 has the best cast and is the funniest show. The same people who resented it when it came out are the same people who hated the concept of TNG and didn't want to give it a chance at first either. Literally just "I don't like things that are different." Any new show after TNG would have had a drop in ratings. It's not reflective whatsoever of the quality of the show.
>>217065804DS9 ripped off Babylon 5 verbatim
Reboot the seriesmovie 1 - imperial Japan, at its military height is bombing around the pacific. They bomb an island and wake a LITERAL sleeping giant. Pure military action spectacle of a military trying to fight Godzilla as it makes its way to Japan. Godzilla is unstoppable as it nukes Jana and the country submits, defeated. Godzilla takes up Japan as its nest.rest of the movies - Japan lives with Godzilla stomping around, not trying to anger it. Letting it do its thing. Godzilla uses Japan as a base to attack other monsters overseas that take the place of the USSR, Vietnam, Korea (slot in the traditional kaijus here). Japan develops pretty alright since Godzilla isn't attacking them directly, and they use scraps of Godzillas blood and scales, etc to develop unique tech raise them up.Later move - Fear of Japan over taking the USA will be depicted as Japan developing Mechagodzilla to take on Godzilla.
>>217065840And did it better.The shows diverge enough to both become their own distinct thing regardless, I don't mind giving Bab some credit though
>>217063167the shoe already felt like it was running out of steam in season 7
>>217065857More Star Trek than Nu-Trek.PARAMOUNT HIRE THIS MAN
>>217065874Yeah, I kind of agree. I thought Babylon 5 was going to pull through with flying colors, but I was let down by Season 4. DS9 is a blatant rip off, but it did manage to fare a lot better, even if the last season is kind of rocky.
>>217063712At this point I just want Trek to fucking end already just so we can have new and different scifi series. But that's never going to happen in the era of everything must be a known IP.So it's endless takes on Klingons, Vulcans, and ships named Enterprise forever and ever and ever.....
>>217064920DS9 is just plain boring. People liked the exploration, going to weird places and having adventures on the new alien world of the week. They were not fans of exploring what the daily lives of Trek people and civilians was like. It was the same setting, same people, doing the same thing in the first couple seasons and by the time they invented the war, nobody cared.
>>217065049>>217065150Voyager had a problem of being incredibly samey and never doing anything interesting. The plots were basically the same thing>Weird thing is happening on the ship>Crew fumbles around dealing with weird thing>Discover what the weird thing is, technobabble speech and repolarize something that solves the whole problem in the last 5 minutes. It leaned into technobabble speeches in the final climax of the episode resolving everything too damn much. Nothing seems to matter any longer after about 4-5 episodes of that. You know what's going to happen now, Voyager will be in trouble, Torres, 7 of 9, or Paris will technobabble something and push buttons then everything is fine again. It's so formulaic that is kills interest completely. After a while I get the impression writers and directors did not really give a shit any longer and churned out cookie cutter plots over and over and over again just to fill episode season quotas.
>>217065150>DS9 was on CBS!Grok is she right?No way! Broadcaster: First-run syndication (sold to individual local stations).
>>217065609>>217065804>>217066491I feel like the problem with DS9 is that they went in the exact opposite direction. The show took place in a dreary backwater on the edge of Federation space that nobody really wanted to go to and it mostly kept to just Bajorans and Cardassians only.When it should have taken place in the biggest, most important focal point in the Federation. To make the show bigger and better than what came before it, it needs to be in a huge important Waystation that ever major mover and shaker comes to so there can be routine guest stars every week. since the ship does not go to some new world every week, some new ship full of guest stars comes there. Keep up the flashy shiny appearance of TNG with the major Fed station that every ambassador comes to, every major ship, anything carrying something important, and it's a big target for pirates and anyone looking to get rich.
>>217062496>Is all retro Star Trek this good?When retro Trek is firing on all cylinders it's really good TV. The rest of the time it's mostly goofy space stuff, but even then there's still plenty to like in most episodes
