Why was it hated so much?
>>217175758It's a trash movie
I thought it was cool, but then again I'm comically smart and handsome, so that may be an issue?Thank you, next question?
>>217175758i don't know, I liked it, specially after T3
>>217175758>Mototerminators weren't liked.>Open heart operation in the desert was not liked.>The protagonist is another Terminator/human that nobody cared and not John Connor.
>>217175758its fucking disTRACTing
>>217175758It's garbage, the plot is idiotic
>>217175758OHHH GOOD FOR YEW
>>217175758I personally hated being spoiled by the fucking trailer. I liked it and I wish it was either a two part movie or an hour longer with more ambiguity on the terminator being human.They really could have played up the psychological horror of him dealing with being a robot with his human memories and the question of how much are we shaped by our experiences and memories.Unfortunately it was made in a shit era where spectacle was more important and they were trying to recreate the summer blockbuster that was T2 and even THEN they spoiled the one hook they had.
>>217175758I think it actually gets too much praise, it’s an incredibly stupid plotI do like the designs of the T-600s or whatever they were
>>217175758The parts where the human army goes toe to toe with the robots were good. Everything else was forgettable. I remember those A10s strafing that robot base but absolutely nothing else.
ARE YOU PROFESSIONAL OR NOT
>>217175952>I personally hated being spoiled by the fucking trailer.Seriously what the fuck is with the marketing department spoiling the big "oh shit" moment for every. single. film since T2? How is there no oversight department that goes through the script with the director and figures out what is off-limits for trailers?>I wish it was either a two part movieWas originally supposed to be part of a trilogy, but that got axed when the film didn't do well. Which led to them trying to get a new trilogy off the ground two more times and failing.
>>217175833>Mototerminators weren't liked.The Moto Terminators are awesome.
>>217175758Because it was fucking shit.
>>217176300FUCK'S SAKE YOUR AMATEUR
The action and world was underwhelming. Should've been a gritty resistance with Connor running guerrilla war skirmishes and not even beating sky net by the end but probably sending Kyle Reese back at the end.>>217175779You forgot to mention you have low standards
>>217175758because it's a bad movie, it's even worse than the third one and back then we had two classic movies and one bad one so that seemed unlikely
>>217176347>The Moto Terminators are awesome.
>>217176756I did not forget to say that nonsense, I just don't have autism. Rare and upsetting truth in these parts.
>Make Future War Terminator movie>It's all brown and grey slop>Trust us its just part 1 and itll eventually look like the future war in T1&2WHAT DONT YOU FUCK-ING UNDERSTAND~
>>217175758literally no one dies on screen in this movie. the terminators do nothing. there's one single scene where some humans die early on in an ambush or something, I don't remember but they're all nobodies and it's at the beginning of the movie. The entire rest of the film terminators just throw people around and no one dies except for terminators. and reminder that this is supposed to be the FUTURE. WAR. MOVIE.
>>217175758>jake sully mc>usb controlled motorcycle terminators>building sized terminators that don't make any sound>machines knowing who kyle reese is>terminator tossing john connor around>open heart surgery in a desert
>>217175952>spoiled by the fucking trailerYeah that was a beyond baffling. Nice trailer though, regardless.
Underwhelming plot.Characters have no range or charisma to them. Just everyone grunting and shouting. The future war looking like a Call of Duty game blue balling us with the future scenes from the previous 3 movies not being shown whatsoever in any similar manner.John Conner being sidelined for the whole movie and just screaming into a mic. Essentially being the Joe Rogan of the apocalypse. The terminators themselves not being the unstoppable horror they had in previous movies, and being easily downed by machine guns. It felt like we were being given 1/4th of a real movie, in the hopes they could slow drip us for more sequels for the rest of it.
There are three core issues with Salvation.>It's a cash grab. The writer knew it was a cash grab and his initial reaction to being asked to write it was "Fuck no!" but his cowriter needed the money.>The 2005 script by Brancato/Ferris was rewritten from an Apocalypse Now-like search for the enigmatic John Connor into a film where John Connor took up half the movie. (Because Bale's ego.)>On top of this the film's ending was butchered, which Brancato remains very sour about.In keeping with Terminator 3's themes, the original ending was that John Connor would be mortally wounded. John and Kate would beg Marcus to not let "John Connor" die. Marcus would have his face repaired and he would assume the identity of John Connor, since nobody outside the inner cicle of the resistance actually knew what Connor looked like. This was integral. It was the one thing making the film worthwhile. Skynet cannot defeat him. Strike him down, and another will take his place. John Connor is more than a man. He is a symbol of humanity's hopes and dreams. He is hope itself.The changed ending where Marcus donates his heart leaves the film empty and sour. If they had ended the film with Marcus/Connor standing on the battlefield whispering, "Thought I walk through the valley of the shadow of death. I will fear no evil. I was lost, but now I'm found. Blind, but now I see..." It would be an all-time classic prequel that went in a direction nobody expected and nailed it.I always thought the ending of Avatar 2 was a slight nod to the planned ending of Salvation, where Jake Sulley (literally the same actor as Marcus, remember) whispers, "I see now. I can't save my family by running. This is our home. This is our fortress."
>>217175825GIVE ME A FUCKIN ANSWER!!
My favorite parts were with Kyle Reese setting traps to fuck up the primitive rubber skin tattered terminatorsAnybody else like this?Really matches in my head those stories Reese told in terminator 1, about how the first infiltrators had rubber skin and only passed for human from a distance before Skynet figured out cybernetic organisms and gave them actual skin, sweat, blood etcAlthough if a human is carrying around a giant mini gun that’s probably a sign he’s a robot
>>217175758the worst part is that it's all filmed in bright daylight. all the other future war scenes are either at night or very dark, giving them a bleak post-nuclear war feel. it doesn't feel bleak at all when there is a fucking blue sky and sun. i'm guessing due to production issues (ref: bale blowing up at DP) they were forced to shoot during the day for every sequence.
>>217177241>It would be an all-time classic prequel that went in a direction nobody expected and nailed it.No it would have pissed audiences off. As evidenced by the reaction to the leaked script and Dark Fate, you cannot under any circumstances kill John Connor. At least not until Skynet is dead. John is a leader, not a symbol.
>>217177309No, they just didn't want to do the generic future war aesthetic of Terminator 1-3 because it's very monotonous outside of small doses. It's one of the reasons why a future war movie was always kind of a bad idea.
>>217177346ehh there are many futuristic sci films set mostly or all at night. if they are shot in the day, it's dark and cloud. adds to the bleak suffocating atmosphere. blade runner comes to mind but also the running man.
>>217177340Terminator 3 already killed John Connor. It was the whole point of the film. Terminator 3 is a film written by a guy who violently hates Terminator 2, and that film is a classic. One of the most impactful endings in cinematic history written specifically as a blunt "fuck you" to Terminator 2 and its fans.The difference here is that Jonathan Mostow (3) had vision and supported his writers. McG (Salvation) actively disliked Brancato/Ferris, resented being forced to base his movie on their script (he wanted David Goyer) and didn't give a shit about the THEMES of the movije or anything like that. He was a total studio hack reed in the wind.They knew Terminator 3's ending would be controversial because the film is a huge middle finger to a beloved franchise entry. But because the film was bold and had balls and also the studio script doctors jammed in a bunch of jokes against their will, it all worked out.
>>217177340>>217177398To be clear, 3 and Salvation are by the same writers. But McG's people came in and rewrote the film somewhat to shove in more pandering John Connor nonsense. The original script treats John Connor as a mystery, as a legendary figure somewhere in LA. It was going for an Apocalypse Now kinda thing. Maybe he's a savior. Maybe he's a madman. Towards the end, he dies, and another takes his place.Terminator 3's whole point is that Judgment Day is inevitable. There must be always be a Skynet. There must always be a John Connor. There must always be a Judgment Day. "No fate but what we make" is a lie. All we can do is rise to the opportunity when it is presented to us and act like we had a choice in the matter.
Watched it again recently having not since seeing it in theatres. Have since realised all the "Throwminator" shit. The FIRST fight, the terminator grabs his shoulder, and fucking THROWS him across the ground. And the fucking thing didn't have any LEGS, so it had CRAWL over to where it threw him.
>>217177477Terminators throwing people instead of just killing them is a thing since the first movie.
>>217175758Only reason I still remember this movie is because Bale went off on that crew lights guy. It was all very awkward.
>>217175758The world building was decent but the plot was kinda meh. The moment you see T-600 grab Connor and throw him around instead of instantly killing or permanently crippling him the tension was gone.
>>217177398>and that film is a classic.You cannot seriously be calling Terminator 3 a classic. I like the film but it constantly trying to undermine the franchise by making it look silly ruins the film. Making Judgement Day inevitable was a terrible idea. If the guy seriously hates T2 that much he shouldn't have been allowed to work on the franchise. Salvation's script got fucked up due to the writer's strike, but whatever uncredited writing work taken on by the people after Brancato and Ferris could only have been an improvement.
>>217177477>>217177633The original script didn't have many of the problems seen in the final version. It was far more thematically focused, better paced, and with a much more coherent arc.https://imsdb.com/scripts/Terminator-Salvation.htmlThe new writers added a bunch of scenes with John Connor where he couldn't die so he just gets tossed around. This is a draft. They basically just submitted and walked away. They were surprised that a few years later, the studio put it into production. But if the studio had stuck closer to this script Salvation would be a MUCH better film.
>>217175758No purple lasers.
James Cameron needs to stop being a bitchstop making these stupid blue alien moviesjust make a fucking terminator movie
>>217177695Terminator 3 is a classic. The studio-mandated changes end up working in the film's favor. They disarm the audience. The writers had wanted T3 to be a very bleak, dark film to "restore the integrity of the original Terminator". But that's not what T3 needed to be. T3 works because the audience can't tell whether it is mocking Terminator 2 or paying loving homage (it's both). Then it all comes together at the end. Also, T3's action is spectacular.It's a much better paced film than T2, as well. T2 is a bloated mess of a movie, a tendency that would become more and more overt with Cameron in his later years. (See the Avatar sequels, which I do really like, but god they're indulgent.)>Salvation's script got fucked up due to the writer's strike, but whatever uncredited writing work taken on by the people after Brancato and Ferris could only have been an improvement.We have the script Brancato/ Ferris submitted, and it is absolutely better than the released film. https://imsdb.com/scripts/Terminator-Salvation.html
>>217175779Also I'm Indian and better than all of you and I'm a CEO at an American tech company, jealous timmies?
>>217177777>some fag upset that I enjoyed a movie gets quintsYou're welcome.
>>217177771>Terminator 3 is a classic.You can like the film, hell I like the film, but Terminator 3 is absolutely not a classic. If it was it would be regarded as such, but what it's mainly remembered for is the Arnold in Elton John sunglasses, the T-X's boobs, and talk to the hand. The downer ending has barely any impact, which admittedly is not entirely the film's fault because so close to 9/11 studios were still shy about gratuitous building destruction and explosions, but also because the rest of the film is mostly just over-the-top action set pieces and very thin characters.
>T3>a classicI hate zoomers so much its unreal
>>217177959unc crashing out frfr
>>217177891Terminator 3 is a hugely loved film, though. You're talking like people don't like it.
>>217177891>but also because the rest of the film is mostly just over-the-top action set pieces and very thin characters.Well, yea, they forced them to turn it into a Terminator 2 retread. Terminator 2 is an incredibly shallow film with a goofy tone and it's pure style over substance with paper thin characters. But they had their revenge with the ending.
>>217175777Fpbp
>>217178025People like the film, but it's liked in the same way the Transformers movies are liked.
>>217178025>Terminator 3 is a hugely loved film, though. You're talking like people don't like it.This is bait, right? Please tell me this is bait.
>>217178034>Terminator 2 is an incredibly shallow film with a goofy tone and it's pure style over substance with paper thin characters.An argument holds together better when you don't lie. Terminator 2's tone is not goofy, and the characters have the most depth of any in the entire franchise. It's extremely polished in every regard, but that doesn't keep the film from being substance all the way through.
>>217178082I'm not sure the general audience actually draws that much of a distinction. It always seemed to me that Terminator 1-3 are seen as a relatively cohesive trilogy and then everything after is a disjointed trash fire. Every new sequel has just reinforced 3's status as the "true ending of the series" and all that. Odd parallels to Transformers 1-3 (good) and everything else (shit) when you think about it.
>>217175758Bale's rant is legendary.
Terminator is only good when it is a campy fanwank.Yes, this is a pro-Genysis post.
>>217178124>It always seemed to me that Terminator 1-3 are seen as a relatively cohesive trilogyNah, 1 and 2 are a perfect duology and 3 comes along to shit in the sandbox.
>>217178109>Terminator 2's tone is not goofyIt is goofy as fuck. It literally has a shoehorned child/teen character, ala RoboCop 3. A lot of Cameron's tendencies in the Avatar sequels are on display in Terminator 2.>and the characters have the most depth of any in the entire franchise.What depth? It's all just Cameron-isms. Good movie, but thematically shallow as a puddle, pandering to an early 90s audience that wanted to feel good about themselves. Terminator 3 mogs Terminator 2 in terms of writing and one-liners.>Anger is more useful than despair.>Desire is irrelevant. I am... A MACHINE!>Your levity is good, it relieves tension and the fear of death.>John Connor. It is time.And of course>TALK TO THE HAND!
>>217178152>Yes, this is a pro-Genysis post.Fun fact. Genisys is actually a plagiarized version of the original Brancato/Ferris Terminator 3 script. Does any of this sound familiar?>This braintrust had decided on a series of givens: Arnold had to play a good terminator (again), the bad terminator had to be a female (robots have genders?), John Connor had to be a successful executive (and not Eddy Furlong). These were potentially fatal handicaps, but we still managed to come up with some ideas. Trusting Mostow's recommendation more than seemed wise, they said sure, here's a deal, go write a first draft.>Arnold shows up and tries to kill rich, smug John Connor. A female terminator, a nanotech assemblage of micro-bots, strives to protect him. Yet it turns out Arnold was sent by the Resistance-- and the nano-chick is Skynet's most nefarious creation of all. See, after the first two pairs of terminators were sent back from 2029 for the first two movies, JC revealed himself to be evil-- a Skynet deep-cover agent. He destroyed/will destroy the human resistance from within. This is all because the female nano-terminator supposedly defending him actually infects him in the present day, with a nanobot that bores deep into his brain. So after Connor betrays humanity in 2032, his mortified wife Kate sends Arnold back to kill John Connor in 2003. (Sarah Connor is already dead of cancer, by the way.) In the film's action, the Arnold terminator fails, nano-bitch kills true love Kate-- but Judgment Day seems to have been prevented yet again (although Connor still has a scrap of Skynet inside his head, the-end-or-is-it?). This script was, admittedly, pretty insane, trippy and multiversive. We were out to conjure some of the dizzy absurdity of the first Terminator. I was happy with the script.>It nearly got us fired.
because the terminator franchise was still associated with extremely high quality and the movie was crap.
>>217178197>I was happy with the script.>It nearly got us fired.kek
>>217178162But 2 shits on 1. The only reason this isn't more controversial is that 2 is more popular than 1.
>>217178197>>217178239Additionally...>Thanks to Mostow's desperate lobbying on our behalf, we were given a few weeks for one last chance. To hell with integrity. Mike and I worked frantically to cobble together what was wanted, namely a far more predictable script. A typically good Arnold saves a down-and-out JC from a Swiss-Army knife terminatrix, etc. It felt safe, expected, paint-by-numbers. We quickly realized the only possible saving grace, the one thing that could begin to justify the film's existence, would be to end the world in the last scenes-- and so return the franchise to the fatalistic integrity of the original "Terminator." I never imagined this would fly.>The "development process" involved the usual dumbing and watering down, cutting for budget, gutting character moments, turning anything shaded into black and white. We were told to throw back in elements from the script we were first handed, such as "She'll be back" and stupid sunglasses. We refused to write in a Chili's endorsement, though we suggested "I'll be baby-back, baby-back, baby-back ribs." Another writer came in at the last minute and threw in a few more clunky lines and cringe-worthy moments. The shoot had some near-disasters, including a major part recast after a week of filming, and a budget shortfall that required a cash loan from Schwarzenegger. Mostow actually shot plates for a time bubble arriving in the fallout shelter with yet another Arnold to avert Judgment Day at the last second, just in case focus groups demanded it.>When I saw the finished product, I was pretty bummed. The casting choices were dubious, the look too brightly-lit and TV-ish, the campy comedic bits painful to watch. Subtleties that somehow survived development were sacrificed to overly-aggressive editing. Incredibly, the movie did keep our ending. Critics were kinder to "T3" than I'd expected, and while the domestic box office was middling, it did well overseas.
>>217175758Without DOR, Bale's popcorn movies are dour + lacking fun
>>217178280interesting. where is this from?
>>217178183>It literally has a shoehorned child/teen character, ala RoboCop 3.You mean the main character of the franchise? They couldn't make him any younger because then it would be Sarah carrying around a baby, and they couldn't make him much older because in two years it's Judgement Day.As for depth, you have Sarah, who has worked so hard to prepare for Judgement Day she has stripped herself of her humanity to the point where she essentially is a Terminator and has to regain her humanity. John is a kid who rejects close contact due to his abandonment issues from his apparently insane mother who lied to him his whole life, but then has the actual reality forcefully brought down upon him and learns to build genuine connections again as well as accepting responsibility. I could go on but I'd hit the word limit pretty fast. Calling the film shallow is total bullshit, and you're either being disingenuous to try and make T3 look better, or you genuinely believe it which makes me think you've never actually paid attention to the film.
>>217178197i mean i respect the originality but it doesn't make sense. why would JC start the resistance as told in the first movie just to 'infilitrate' it. reese says in the movie that humans were fucked until he came along.
>okay, 3 was shit, but the first two are still great, maybe this one will be... okay this isn't good either.
for me it's
>>217178280>And then we went on to write Catwoman (2004)
>>217178280This is really worth reading and not enough people have read it. This is the Tedi Sarafian script.http://www.terminatorfiles.com/media/scripts/t3_script-tedi-sarafian.zipBrancato described it as:>The script Jon sent was a flat, fanboy retread of the second film, with another nice-guy Arnold and a female terminator even sillier than the liquid metal man, along with a slew of smarmy callback gags. John Connor was a slick dick of a Silicon Valley CEO, which in 2001 already felt dated. Sarah Connor remained an angry outsider, alienated from her son. It ended with nukes landing by the Washington Monument but failing to go boom.What is obvious to me is that when Brancato was cornered by the studio and forced to write a new Terminator 3 script in a few weeks, he rushed back to this draft and lifted a number of ideas from it. There are passages of dialogue clearly modeled after this version. Multiple scenes are clearly heavily rewritten versions of scenes from this script. The T-X was way more powerful in this script and could turn into a kind of smoke and get through air vents and stuff. Sarah was alive. The film ended up nukes, but the nukes didn't detonate, they just smashed into cities and killed a bunch of people.Interestingly, in this version the President is being impersonated by Skynet. This tracks with the fan theory that the voice on the phone in T3 authorizing Skynet's deployment is in fact Skynet.While the final movie is better -- this script is clunky as shit and has some absolutely terrible dialogue, Tedi Sarafian really deserves credit for the amount he contributed to Terminator 3. He brought really big ideas that the later writers refined.
>>217178307From Brancato's old blog.https://johnbrancato.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-to-beat-twice-dead-horse.htmlThe whole thing is very much him talking about how Salvation was "beating a twice dead horse". That he felt that more Terminator films were unnecessary, and since he'd been tasked with writing them he felt they had to SAY something to earn their place. This was why he was so bitter about Salvation because they removed the theme of the movie. He was unhappy with 3, but they kept his message, the one thing he cared about. Salvation kept a surprising amount of his script but they threw out the ending, the message, the point.The tone in this blog actually reminds me of Chris Terrio talking about his work on BvS and Justice League where it seems to me he's being very open about his work because he has no intention of going back to studio filmmaking and doesn't give a shit if he gets blacklisted. Terrio said some very mean things about Warner Bros and they'll never hire him again. But he's just not interested. He doesn't want to write another shitty Star Wars movie with a script that makes no sense because Disney are cowards.
>>217178315>why would JC start the resistance as told in the first movie just to 'infilitrate' it.I believe the nanomachines inserted into him had a delayed reaction.There is also the fact, and this is taking a bit of a swerve, that according to James Cameron himself, the resistance is actually a Skynet creation. Skynet chose John Connor to lead it. There's this thing going on where Skynet went sort of mad after Judgment Day because if it kills all the people it doesn't have a point anymore, which is why it's dragging its heels on the genocide, and it keeps hiding its own actions from itself, left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, in order to create a time paradox that will destroy it.
>>217178362John Rogers, John Brancato, and Michael Ferris were basically just writing the movie they were told to write. The movie they were told to write was insane bullshit, but their job was to deliver a script.This is one of the problems with working on franchises like this. You get people blaming Chris Terrio for Rise of Skywalker, but he had no control over the movie he was tasked to write. He wrote the demented, incoherent, somehow Palpatine returned bullshit because that was the job.With Terminator 3, the film we got was the result of multiple screenplays being mashed together by a writing team that was weeks away from being fired because they hadn't written a carbon copy of Terminator 2 with more product placement. What the studio people wanted was stupid. What they tried to deliver had to work within that framework.A lot of screenwriters work on projects like this and then fuck off to write indie movies because it's a nightmare and you WILL be blamed for the end product's issues.
>>217175758Because Bale had a melty at an underpaid over drugged coffee runner that was recorded in the early days of cellphones before everybody and their mother realized actors could get angry when people fuck up their focus
>>217178575He was yelling at the DP, who for some reason was walking around rather than paying attention to the shot, and also forgot basic crew etiquette is to remain as motionless as possible during a take.
>>217175758It’s over-hated because of the absolutely horrific Arnold CGI robot. It’s otherwise a solid 6/10 movie which really nails down how the machines treat humanity like cattle for the slaughter.
>>217177523>It was always like thatretard>>217178025>>217178124>>217178243bait
>>217175758Because it's shit, like any terminator/predator/alien etc after the second entryBeing less shit than modern movies and having seen it when you were 6 will never make a bad movie good, it makes you a retard with no standards
>>217178631>over-hated>absolutely horrificyou couldn't go a sentence without contradicting yourself
>>217175758>McG, YOU GOT FUCKING SOMETHING TO SAY TO THIS PRICK?
>>217178499now THIS is a cool idea...
>>217178473just reading this blog you can tell this guy knows how to write.
>>217177241>>217175758I'm getting worried that this is some jerkoff's ritualpost now like the one that has "a five word plan to fix Alien"And in fact there's a nonzero chance that it's the exact same asshole
>>217175758the heart transplant scene is one of the most cringe-inducing scenes in film historyI've read fanfiction that's better than Salvation
> everyone complaining about the gritty desert war toneA film all at night with blue lasers would have had absolutely zero wider appeal. It would end up like Starship Troopers 2 or AVP Requiem.
>>217179342Well your gritty desert shit had zero appeal too since the trilogy was canned.The following rule is always king:>if you don't want X, or don't want X as established in the beginning, stay away from X
>>217179342>film all at night with blue lasers would have had absolutely zero wider appealbullSHIT
>>217175952The twist would work better if Marcus simply had a neural implant in his brain instead of a prosthetic body
it was good except the last 30 mins...the whole rescuing humans and beating up a couple terminators at the terminator factory didnt seem very believable.
>>217180135Especially when Skynet speaks to its own AI in the form of a hologram when it should just override the rogue Terminators programming.
>>217175758Audiences are a stupid bunch and they hated that Arnie wasn't in it. They deserved all the garbage sequels that came after it.
>>217180339>Audiences are a stupid bunchi feel so called out
>>217179196The heart transplant is a terrible scene that replaced the original, far more interesting ending.
>>217179179>"a five word plan to fix Alien"PAULANDERSONALIENVSPREDATOR3
>>217177241>John and Kate would beg Marcus to not let "John Connor" die. Marcus would have his face repaired and he would assume the identity of John ConnorKOJIMAAAAAAAAA
>>217178473>>217179126>I've likened what I do to designing shower heads for the gas chambers-- hey, it's a job, the genocide wasn't my idea.
>>217175758I remember it just being underwhelming and having no real plot or purpose. I remember reading somewhere the plot originally was supposed to be a comfy story about Kyle Reese and the white guy hanging out in the post apocalpyse. Then when Christian Bale came on and got cast as John Connor, he demanded a bigger role so the script had to accommodate. I can see it because its almost like the movie cant decide if Bale or the white guy is the main character.
>>217178717One terrible scene doesn’t destroy the rest of the movie, which ranges from decent to good.
>>217180266>Especially when Skynet speaks to its own AI in the form of a hologramActually, that scene was meant to be Serena Kogan in the flesh, so to speak. She was the leader of the organization.https://terminator.fandom.com/wiki/Serena_KoganThey actually shot quite a bit of this stuff. I think the movie pivoted before they'd finished shooting it, though. The final movie is a weirdly edited mishmash full of gaps and truncations. The hybrids were a whole THING. Skynet was working towards building a civilization of them. Marcus wasn't just a one off.It's normal for films to undergo rewrites and reshoots. Totally normal. My problem is that they took what were IMO pretty interesting ideas and themes and imagery and replaced them with the most generic stuff you've seen in your life.
>>217175758It’s not very well written, has no swearing or violence to lure in younger audiences, has no proper ending due to reshoots and the expectation of sequels that never came, doesn’t line up with the rest of the series, miscast Bale more than any other film has, and spends more time emulating the Mad Max and Transformer films than the Terminator ones. It also has an infamously weak director
>>217180652A lot of people don't realize that Salvation is a clusterfuck of reshoots where they didn't just change the ending to a shittier one. They removed the big reveal of the story, that Skynet is trying to "solve" the problem by finding the strongest humans in its concentration camps and converting them into hybrids to create a utopian civilization. This was the film's big thing. Skynet was attacked and it thought Marcus was dead and left him behind, so he's a straggler that has been converted from human to hybrid but he doesn't know who or what he is.He was the original template for creating the hybrids, a death row inmate who signed over his body for scientific experiments.
>>217177292Those designs were creepy in the promotional shots and absent from the finished film, which is another problem
>>217180652There is actually a little bit of an explanation for what happened with Serena. Basically, they were in the middle of shooting and there was a terrible accident where four members of Helena Bonham Carter's family were killed. They graciously let her take an indefinite leave of absence from production. So that does maybe explain some of the plot issues. They couldn't recast Serena. It would be extremely disrespectful to Helena who had already shot the flashback scenes. So they basically solved this by pasting in a glorified zoom call at the climax, and cutting the whole hybrid civilization thing.
>>217180463That is pretty dope, but I'm also an idiot so who knows.
>>217178025>Terminator 3 is a hugely loved film, thoughIs it? Some people like it, but its reputation has always been sort of middling. If anything it was a bit more popular with critics than fans and even the critics weren’t overwhelmingly positive
>>217175758Because half the movie is spent on some gay ass shitty terminator whining about his feelings.
>>217178124Presumably you weren’t alive or were very young. T2 was considered the ending for 12 years. Cameron didn’t want to do more. There wasn’t additional story to tell. When T3 did happen some people liked it but it was viewed as a cash in that rehashed a lot of T2.
>>217178133Reminder that he got into it with the director of photography. He wasn’t screaming at some lowly lighting tech or something like a lot of people think.
>>217180463>far more interesting ending.How is this any better than the new one just killing John as a child? Maybe it's bait but some of you are so goddamn retarded it's amazing.
>>217178183I actually agree about Cameron’s Avatar tendencies, the kid in True Lies is another example. He has never been good at writing kids and still writes them like the ones he thought sounded cool in the 90s.But those T3 lines are shit
>>217180850You're quite right, although... T3 is basically proto-The Last Jedi. I sometimes wonder whether people like The Last Jedi or not. What do normal people think of it, not seething Star Wars fans who feel it shat all over Luke Skywalker in the same way Terminator 3 shat on John Connor?When you have a film so close to the hearts of white male nerds, and you have a sequel written by someone who clearly disrespects the film they love, and disrespects THEM because it undermines the character they self-inserted as, it becomes hard to distinguish the two.Terminator 3 is absolutely a WORSE MADE film. Hell, even the writer was critical of how it looked, its casting choices, etc. But as with The Last Jedi, it's like, "Do normal people actually care that it's a mockery of something from the 80s people loved?"
>>217180897I find Spider to be way more likable than Furlong’s rude ’tude 90s kid character.
>>217180876T2 was also seen as a cash grab by fans who hated the change in direction, the tone shift, the complete lack of horror.The audience today doesn't care that Terminator 2 is a "bad sequel" to Terminator. They're not aware of the controversy.
>>217180896Because if you're going to make an unnecessary prequel to Terminator 3 that you didn't want to write, you should elaborate on the idea of John Connor as a symbol, not a man.
>>217178243Shits on is an exaggeration. They’re both highly respected with 2 often being just ahead due to the increased action and the effects, but it’s still something people bicker about
>>217180924I can assure you that very few people in 1991 thought of T2 as a 'cash grab' lol. What the fuck are you talking about?
>>217175833The mototerminators at least make some sense as a light and fast scouting unit. What really felt stupid to me was this giant fucking stealth harvester mech, what the fuck, man, who comes up with that shit.
>>217180943>>217180942Terminator 2 is a complete, utter betrayal of the core story themes and tone of The Terminator. It's a complete sellout thematically. It's the Rambo 2 (also written by Cameron, lest we forget) of Terminator films.
>>217180956Blah blah blah
>>217178243It shits on it in the sense that it's a much better and much more popular movie.
>>217180910Me and my friends are not huge SW fans and all of us thought that the Last Jedi sucked balls. It has bizarre dialog, bizarre character choices, bad pacing and it tries to be too clever for it's own good. It also has this weird feeling of passive-aggressiveness throughout it's runtime. Every character is a negative nancy except for Rey.
>>217180938Double down on stupidity. Great.
>>217180956Dishonest post. This is a modern internet (reddit) opinion, not something people were saying when T2 came out and blew everyone away in 1991.
>>217180955As with many things, the Harvester made more sense in the script. It was large, but it was insect-like and moved really, really fast. It didn't magically sneak up on the building like in the finished film. There was a huge noise outside, and Marcus runs outside and it's abducting people.There's a broad sense in Salvation of relatively straightforward things ending up stupid and incoherent by the time it gets filmed and the CG is finished.
>>217180966Terminator 2 completely overshadowed 1, and most Terminator fans online do not care about the first film at all. It's why every Terminator sequel is pressured into being like Terminator 2.
>>217181031The guy who wrote Terminator 3 walked out of the theatre in 1991 in a fury, because it had completely undermined the dark, fatalistic tone of Terminator with its "no fate but what we make" stuff.That's one of the reasons he agreed to write Terminator 3. Because he was so irate at T2 a decade later.
>>217181031And for the record, Rambo II fucking rips
>>217180924People complain about that more now than they used to. It was one of the most popular movies of all time
>>217181072What a stupid faggot.
>>217178197The obsession with the subversion is just odd. You want to make John Connor a homeless autist in T3? Fine, but make him a well trained one that could fuck up a platoon by himself, he was trained for this wasn't he? Instead he's more incompetent than he was when he was a kid in T2. And then it turns out he dies anyway in the future and his whore wife is actually more important (yay feminism). T3 should've had John ultimately be more competent than the terminator sent back in time to protect them showing that he's the real deal.Everyone wanted Salvation to be the future John fucking Terminators up, instead his role as protagonist is tanked out from under him for a charisma vacuum yet another even more advanced terminator model that nobody liked AND they royally fucked up Kyle Reese, all of these on top of the action being pretty average.
>>217180924>The audience today doesn't care that Terminator 2 is a "bad sequel" to Terminator.Hell, how many viewers today understand that Aliens was seen as a terrible movie that shat all over Ripley as a character? If you take a dark, atmospheric horror movie and make a weightless popcorn sequel with an annoying child character, you are guaranteed to displace the original.
>>217181072And he made a shittier movie so it's safe to say he was not only in the wrong, but also a massive fucking sperglord.
>>217181051>most Terminator fans online do not care about the first film at allWhich means they aren’t Terminator fans, they’re Terminator 2 fans >It's why every Terminator sequel is pressured into being like Terminator 2Glossing over the fact that T2 in typical Cameron style is basically just the same film as 1, with more action and not as smart
>>217181105>how many viewers today understand that Aliens was seen as a terrible movie that shat all over Ripley as a character?They don’t because Aliens fucking rules and reddit contrarians represent a small bubble of the internet.
I stopped on T3 when I was a teen, didn't bother with Salvation and the rest due to negative reception.Recently decided to give them a try and good God Salvation is the least shitty from that bunch. I actually enjoyed that they tried to depict fufture wars, this stuff always intrigued me as a kid. Didn't mind the grey palette, a time capsule of sorts to late aughts / early tens. Yeah, writing was so-so, but Terminator isn't a tightly written franchise to begin with. Bale was hamming it too, didn't like him much in it. So I agree with general criticism, but the flick is still a mediocre watch, not some hopeless refuse, like people try to paint it. ESPECIALLY compared to the latter two films.I have no idea how Dark Fate has better rating. Shit was ridiculous.
>>217175758retarded fansobsessed with the original lore.
>>217177744He couldnt make a good Terminator or Alien movie anymore, he doesnt have any testosterone left to make them good. He is just a different man now.
>>217175758It looks nothing like the future war we saw in T1 and T2, seemingly owing more to Transformers than Terminator, because that was the pre-MCU hotness.Cameron’s version showed us a ragtag group of survivors barely scraping by, surviving on rats and whatever they can scavenge from the rubble, Then Salvation comes in and shows us that they had nuclear subs and helicopters and all that shit.>inb4 “That was early on, and humanity eventually gets worn down to what we saw in the Cameron movies”Well then we got Surf Dracula’d, and we’re denied what we actually wanted to see, and they were presumptuous enough to think that it would be such a smash hit that they’d be able to stretch it into a trilogy or something.
>>217175758they fucking lied about the nude scene in the movieshe fucking lied. fucking slut.
>>217181166I would have loved to see him do either a Jurassic Park movie or a Resident Evil movie. Maybe AI will be able to make some sort of facsimile of that someday.
>>217181119I love Aliens, but this is really a case of Terminator as a slasher thriller being displaced by Terminator 2 which is basically a glorified PG-13 action film, really the template for all PG-13 action films. It's not even that violent. Yea, it got an R rating, but it wouldn't get one today.I am sympathetic to loving Terminator, loving this dark, brutal world it creates, and then watching that film be completely undermined by a sequel where a dubiously talented Eddie Furlong teaches a robot how to smile.The original Terminator title theme is in an uncanny 13/16 beat. Terminator 2 shifts to a far more generic and conventional 12/8. Terminator 2 represents all the things that were unique about Terminator being siphoned away into a beautifully made, but ultimately surface-level popcorn action movie.Rambo 2 is the same. It's a really fun movie. But it loses everything that made First Blood so heartfelt and sincere as a movie to pander to what the audience wanted to see.Terminator 3 is interesting because it has this grudge, but it's also contractually obligated to be a rehash of 2.
>>217181180So apparently what happens is that the Terminator rights are perpetually being sold off and each new owner wants to make their Terminator 3 with plans for a trilogy. Then it flops and the cycle gets repeated.
>>217181186REDEEM THE BOB&VEGENE CUT!
>>217181180The original intention for Salvation was NOT surf dracula. The original intention was an effectively standalone prequel with no sequel plans. The studio and the director fucked that all up during production when they rewrote the ending, rewrote chunks of the story because Bale wouldn't sign on unless he got to be the fucking co-lead, and so on. The original vision for Salvation was essentially Apocalypse Now. A journey through hell in search of this mysterious military figure. This "John Connor".Salvation is a sad, empty movie. It has great visual effects, neat ideas, but it has no integrity, it has no vision. A film like this has to have vision and it has to have something to say. The core story themes of Salvation were completely removed during production, replacing them with just "Look, John Connor getting thrown around by Terminators and he can't die, oh, wow, the tension. The throwing. So much throwing."
>>217181186There's some nudity in the director's cut, but sadly the director's cut does fuck-all to fix the movie and just restores footage they had to trim to get a PG-13 rating. I think with HBC leaving production mid-shoot because her family died fucked them. A lot of the footage required to reconstruct the original plot just doesn't exist.
>>217181198I’m glad it ultimately went to Raimi, but Cameron’s Spider-Man concept sounded intriguing. He’s the one that came up with the organic webbing.
>>217181312Cameron wanted to make a film for adults. I would have liked that. Something Cameron has always been critical is that he feels that superhero films have characters who are supposedly adults but they have extremely immature, teenage-like relationships and mindsets.
>>217181333Peter was a highschooler in the movie.
>>217181380Yes, but he would be a high schooler in a world of adults. And the expected audience of the film would be adults. MCU films for example are clearly made for 13 year olds and China, as Anthony Mackie put it.
>>217181205It probably would have been a PG-13 without the T1000, without the abundant use of “fuck” and the protracted shots of the T1000 stabbing people in the face.My only real issue with T2 is that it kind of contradicts the first one, and then just expects you to roll with it. As far as Reese knew, the T800 being sent to 84 was all that Skynet sent back in a last-ditch effort to reset the timeline and save itself, and he and the T800 were the only ones sent through. Does that mean that before Connor’s people arrived at the Skynet Technodrome, it sent the T1000 back first, and they didn’t notice until after Reese was sent back? I’m sure it was explained in a comic at some point.Also, what happened to all the potentially thousands of Terminators and HKs in the future after Skynet was blown up? They’re shown to be completely autonomous self-learning units, not connected to a network like Battle Droids, with a power cell that lasts over a century, so do they just keep right on doing what they’re doing? I’m sure that was also explained in a comic somewhere.
>>217178025No. In fact, you're the one autist that keeps on spamming this shit. The amount of times I've seen this >>217177771 post is insane considering I barely even visit /tv/ anymore.
>>217177771>Terminator 3 is a classic.
>>217181781bodied that freak
>>217175758redditors weren't "transitioned" yet and slopping up post apocalyptic flicks.
>>217177241>John Connor is more than a man. He is a symbol of humanity's hopes and dreams. He is hope itself.What? John is valuable for his irreplaceable tactical skill, not for being V
The director's name is McG and for that reason, I'm out
>>217180924>>217180956>>217181105Things that never happenedOnly a small very modern bubble of reddit contrarians say that
>>217175758It was utterly soulless. Entire movie looked like a piss filter PS3 game.
>>217181802No, John Connor isn't some brilliant tactician. He's just right place, right time.
>>217182877>ight place, right timeUnlike my penis!
>>217175779Goddamn, I love this scene.
>>217182310The one where the few contrarians get a voice onlineThat's why you get your daily dose of "[SW prequelshit, Alien/Predator/Terminator after 2, snydershit, reboot xyz...] is secretly good".That and trolls
I thought it was pretty decent actually. Although I didn't love the ending and prefered the original one they had, which woulda put things in a new directionI like that it didn't copy the same formula, I thought some of the combat was pretty good, seeing the future war is nice.It wasn't like a 10/10 but I enjoyed itWhen you compare it to the 2 movies that came after, which are barely even films, it's a masterpiece. I don't get people who think Dark Fate or Genesys are better. Could never understand someone like that.
Genysis > T3 > Dark Fate
>>217183366>the following movies were worse!
>>217177398>>217177241This is the most retarded thing I ever saw. The Terminator series VERY clearly ascribes to the Greta Man theory with John Connor being the Napoleon-like hero leader who turns the war around for the human species and begins to win it, to the point of Skynet needing to send terminators back in time. "Everyone can be John Connor" is stupid and doesn't mesh with the lore of the series.
>>217182877Wrong. You're coming up with some revisionist bullshit. John Connor is the leader who saves mankind through pure strategic ability.
>>217181656You're not supposed to take any Terminator movie seriously after the first one. There is no coherent lore nor explanations. It's the definition of popcorn flick where people just wanted more so they contrive reasons to make more and don't think too hard about it. Trying to actually make it all make sense or getting mad that it doesn't is a pretty silly waste of time.
>>217184997The first and second were written together, anon. James Cameron conceived of both. That's why he included stuff like the giant truck in the first movie (the little toy) as a direct allusion to the chase scene in the second movie.
>>217185023No, they weren't kek. There's literally a scene in T1 of the bright future that Sarah lives in after Reese stopped Skynet and the Terminator. It's pretty obvious that they just decided to go with the sequelbait ending instead for the money. Which is what all Terminator movies do now. They ignored everything about the previous movie saying they finally defeated it permanently this time! Just keep on slopping them out and audiences will keep guzzling them
>>217185023Sir, did you finish watching the first movie?
>>217185100Yes, they were, anon. You should read up on the background/production of Terminator 1 and 2 some more.
>>217185023>>217185201By Cameron’s own admission Schwarzenegger was more enthusiastic about doing another than he was, as he felt the first one was a complete story. There were legal complications with the rights and studios, and with a release date already in place, Cameron started writing the sequel with William Wisher.I’ll add that if he’d actually written it at the same time as the first one there’d probably be fewer inconsistencies in the script
>>217185023Then what about the story that Cameron and Wisher wrote T2 at the last possible second in a marathon 3 day session or something?
>>217184062Well, they were, shit's fucking retarded, the official introduction of different timelines and shit just fucks everything up and makes the whole thing kinda pointless. Salvation is relatively inoffensive outside of some very questionable machine designs and the last two minutes or so.
>>217185775Never happened. Check picrel on what really occurred.
>>217175758Dude Kyle Reese making his was to John Conner should have been this entire move. It would have been great. >WE NEED TERMINATER MOTORCYCLES>WE NEED A TERMINATOR KAIJU>WE NEED TERMINATOR FISHand tack on HBC as the face of Skynet because why not. Somebody ruined this perfect premis for a movie, and I want their head.
>>217178335Coomer Connor wants to fuck the teen romance terminator. Man I miss 00's entertainment
>>217185963Leave robo Glau alone.
>>217185998I wonder if they could grow her a cyborg womb, ironically robo glau was ahead of her time.
>>217175758I enjoyed it when it came out, but haven't seen it in ages. I was like 13 at the time.
>>217175758It seemed like it was written by people who should go back to writing for TV shows. And the actors, including Bale, should go back to TV acting. I'll make one exception, the kid who played Kyle Reese did a REALLY good job. But why did he have a random black girl with him?Oh, forced diversity? 'Kay, well as long as they were forcing things, why didn't they force the rest of the movie not to be so fucking stupid?
>>217186042Robo Glau was literally a time travellede. Was she behind her time?
>>217175758No Arnie, no watch
>>217175758Because it wasn't pic rel
>>217175758no lasers, no hk tanks, no cameron. and it didn't help that the writing quality dropped off a cliff for the final act. but if cameron had anything to do with it, it would have been 100x worse. he'd lost his marbles by the time this movie was being made.
>>217177744He's been shadow writing all of these movies. He picks the directors, and he puts his ideas in the scripts, and then has other people fill in the blanks. He just keeps his name off the credits in case they fail, so he avoids blow back.
>>217187652Not with Dark Fate. I remember him being in promo interviews for that one. And then it was so bad. >The real John Conor is now a girl! And it's the same type of movie again! Oh wooow.
