Who was in the wrong here?
>>217251781Everyone except for Hector. He was the only good guy. Fun fact: roach sultan, Mehmet the chad, avenged Hector by raping greeks in Constantinople
>>217251781Hector, he wanted to take Patroclus armor as a trophy to mock the acheans, but ran three times like a bitch around the walls of Troy once Aquilles murdered dozens of his allies and even fighting a lesser god.
Hector was wrong for being weakBoth were wrong for being alive
>>217251980>Everyone except for Hector. He was the only good guy.It's even funnier in the actual book when the retards and cunts are bigger retards and cunts yet he's still the only sensible person there.If only he had the balls to kill his own brother to just end the war
>>217251781Everyone except Odysseus. Odysseus was forced to fight in the war, and having no choice he did all he could to end it as quickly as possible.
>>217251781>Screenplay by David BenioffThey kind of forgot who was in the wrong.
>>217252588Then he went to cheat on his wife for 9 whole years
>>217252490>in the actual bookthere is no "actual" book
>>217253170Well it's a collection of like 24 books but you know what I'm saying
>>217251781>Who was in the wrong here?Paris and Helen and the goddesses who forced them together
>>217252490>If only he had the balls to kill his own brother to just end the warThen he wouldn't be the good guy anymore.
>>217253225Paris was a r*tarded faggot afraid of manly melee combat and gave Helen the ick
>>217252126I was surprised to find out stuff like him running away, wanting to disrespect the body of Patroclus (but then ask his body be respected), etc. whilst being this sympathetic hero in The Iliad. Doesn't sound sympathetic to me
>>217252126This. The fool thought he had killed Achilles, kek
>>217252126Still he only died because a goddess tricked him into fighting Achilles
>>217251781I want a badass movie like this so bad bros :(
>>217251781Ancient greek mythos predate christian morality so usually no one is in the wrong. Agents act in their own interest, sometimes the interests collide, which results in conflict. It's nothing personal, just how the world works, if anything you would call the situation itself tragic. You're not holding the other agent to some arbitrary moral standard.
>>217253507I fucking hate niggers like you who can't even grasp the basic level of prose we've had three fucking millennia agoNo that is absolutely not the fucking case, every other page has a solemn note about how even this random as fuck soldier was a real human bean with real families and real lives cut down for this pointless war and the entire thing ends with a solemn nod to Hector's death, despite the ten years of war and all his accomplishments in it, being about what he would do during peace timeDumbasses with fucking middle school English teacher tier literary IQ shouldn't be allowed to post
>>217253507This is an oversimplification, but the moral failure that's a throughly through both the Illiad and the Odyssey is violations to Xenia, essentially hospitality or host/guest law. Paris absconding with Helen is a catastrophic violation of this, and thus Troy from the outset is doomed to lose, as Zeus Xenios, most powerful of the gods, decrees it so. Ultimately this is also the sin of the suitors in the Odyssey as well, breaking guest law in multiple ways, but most egregiously plotting to kill Telemachus.
>>217253574bodied that freak
>>217253507So before Christianity people had no morality at all, right? Why was Hector apologizing to Achilles for killing his cousin by error then?
>>217253682>thus Troy from the outset is doomed to lose, as Zeus Xenios, most powerful of the gods, decrees it soTrojans practically rape the Greeks into submission because some harlot complained to Zeus that they were bullying his son
>>217253507>Ancient greek mythos predate christian morality so usually no one is in the wrong. Agents act in their own interest, sometimes the interests collide, which results in conflict. It's nothing personal, just how the world works, if anything you would call the situation itself tragic. You're not holding the other agent to some arbitrary moral standard.
>>217251781The guy who stole the other guy's wife. Not sure which one of these two did that, but whichever one it was; that's the guy in the wrong.
>>217253225All the shit he allowed his brother to get away with, it's hard to call him a good guy for it. When Paris falls to his knees and crawls away like a dog, standing in defence of him stops being a good thing.
>>217251781You for watching the inferior soundtracked director's cut
>>217253790He should have stopped Paris taking the queen of another king, but not killing him for it. Why Hector didn't stop Paris from doing that? Is it explained in the book? Because he knew that would lead to war.
>>217251781Why was Achilles portrayed as an immature manchild?
>>217253851He asks a god to kill his own people because he has beef with one, singular guy
Hector should’ve kept Helen as his concubine.
>>217253847Other king would've wanted Paris' head anyway. I guess he could've returned the wife then sent his brother into exile. "He ran away."
>>217253851Achilles was actually a homosexual in real life and his "cousin" was actually his gay lover that Hector killed. His actions make more sense when you understand he was distraught over losing his gay lover.
>Agamemnon was evil because.....HE JUST WAS OKAYThis movie is gay Trojan propaganda.
>>217253982No, you kike. They even slept with their own bed warmer woman in their tent. They were just blood bros. >But Achilles slept in the inner corner of the strong-built shelter, and a woman lay beside him, one he had brought from Lesbos, Phorbas’ daughter, Diomede of the fair cheeks. And Patroclus slept at the opposite side, and beside him also lay a woman, fair-girdled Iphis, whom brilliant Achilles gave him when he took the towering height of Scyros, the city of Enyeus.
>we were robbed of an Odyssey film staring Sean BeanIm still upset
>>217253982never stated by homer. fan fiction created as an alternative interpretation years after the illiad
>>217253909Would you have returned to Sparta, bring back Helena and then see how Menelaos kills your brother in combat?
>>217254055>from Lesbos>Literal origin for the word lesbianHehehehee
>>217254055>fair-gidled this means she had god-tier hip-to-waist ratio, for the illiterate amongst us
>>217254055>They were just blood bros.Whatever you need to tell yourself, sweetheart.
>>217254234stop thinking about cocks
>>217253726That's true, but even early on Zeus decrees that ultimate victory will belong to the Greeks. That and by stealing away Briseus from Achilles, Agamemnon himself has violated Xenia, and is correspondingly punished.
>>217251781technically neither, though hector is certainly a bit more sympathetic for how selfless he is.
>>217254234What'd you say?
>>217254055>kike>literally ancient Greeks already interpreted their relationship as lovers
>>217254305>pederasts projecthmm that definitely never happens
>>217254305Moron:>Homer pictures us Achilles looking upon Patroclus not as the object of his passion but as a comrade, and in this spirit signally avenging his death. (Socrates, quoted by Xenophon, Symposium 8.31)
>>217254305Certain greek faggots centuries after Homer wrote it interpreted the story that way. Same way people say Frodo and Sam were gay today just because they were good friends.
>>217254351Timarchus tried to defend himself by mentioning Achilles and Patroclus.
>>217254377Why do you think this is the only source?
>>217253574>no one was in the wrong, the confict of interest was tragic>wrong, actually every other page had a note how no one was in the wrong and the thing ends with acknowledging the situation as tragicyea>>217253704>So before Christianity people had no morality at all, right?The morality was rarely based on objective wrong.
>>217252490Hector is a rat and a coward in the homeric cycle. He only showed up to fight Achiles because he thought he has the support of his brother Deiphobus (his actually favorite brother) and his bow.Unironically the only honorable one in the whole tale is probably Memnon who went to pay his debt with Pryam and ended up dead.
Achilles IS a faggot but not the actual dick lover kind, did you retards just up and forgot about how like 90% of the specific events in the Illiad happen specifically because he's mad at a dude for stealing his girl
>>217254525>wrong, actually every other page had a note how no one was in the wrong and the thing ends with acknowledging the situation as tragicThat's your take out from the book, when they exclusively show how certain people (Paris, Ares, Agamemnon) are in the wrong to a point where Hector himself talks Paris into fighting and getting himself killed because he's in the wrong and says how he would've killed him for all the bad things he personally caused like 4 times with the sole reason he didn't being they're actual brothers
>>217254547>the only honorable one in the whole tale is probably MemnonBigger Ajax and Biggerer Ajax did nothing wrong.
>>217254547>Hector is a rat and a coward in the homeric cycle. He only showed up to fight Achiles because he thought he has the support of his brother Deiphobus (his actually favorite brother) and his bow.Anon Hector is constantly in the frontlines for the entire battle apart from one instance where he asks people to start begging the gods for help which works. He goes out of his way to chase the god-juiced mortals or gods just using mortals as avatars because he can solo them till that point. He is on the forefront without a horse to dismantle a fucking wall and spikes alongside his foot troops at one pointYou have to remember that he's one of the only """"normal"""" humans in the story when it comes to fighters too. The rest are either actively being given support from gods are are of a god's lineage anyways, I think the book specifically says this at one point.Achilles also had a demi-god for a mom for example.
>>217254632>Hey Homer so there are two strong important characters in the book that share a name>How are you going to distinguish them?>By how fucking broad the shoulders of one is, brehI feel like modern storytelling just can't keep up with the classics
>>217254592To wrong someone is not an objective wrong, it's a subjective one. If you actually bothered to read greek mythos you'd know gods and other characters are put in positions of both wronging others and being wronged all the time, but rarely presented as commiting an act that is objectively evil. You just reap what you sow. If you're strong enough you just don't give a shit, like Zeus, who wrongs everyone all the time. Passing objective moral judgments wasn't the standard way morality operated before spread of christianity.
For me, it's Nestor the old coot who knows how kings and gods are fickle dumbasses and wants the war to be over yet can't stop himself from going on two page long tirades about how cool and jacked up he was before giving a single simple suggestion only to back it up by still demolishing people in his old age
>>217251781Dywane Johnson
>>217254685He is not brave, he is cunning. He only fought against Ajax because the prophecies favoured him and predicted that he wouldn't die that day. Also in the raid of the Achaean campament, Apollo protects him. He had the help of Ares to strike down a wounded Patroclus. So he actually didn't fought as a mere "human".
>>217254804Jesus fucking christ nigger just read the book instead of doing your layer 1 armchair literary expert gimmickZeus has a whole talk about>If you actually bothered to read greek mythos you'd know gods and other characters are put in positions of both wronging others and being wronged all the time, but rarely presented as commiting an act that is objectively evil. You just reap what you sow. If you're strong enough you just don't give a shit, like Zeus, who wrongs everyone all the timeIsn't fucking like that because of the connection and duties between god and man
>>217254862I never specified god-man interactions. Zeus wrongs and is wronged by men, gods, titans. It's not relevant.
>>217251781Almost everybody ended up dead, so what did it matter who was right or wrong?>Yeah but Achilles got glory for-Yes, and in the sequel he laments having done so. The folly of youth.>[477] [...] thou, Achilles, no man aforetime was more blessed nor shall ever be hereafter. For of old, when thou wast alive, we Argives honored thee even as the gods, and now that thou art here, thou rulest mightily among the dead. Wherefore grieve not at all that thou art dead, Achilles.’>[486] “So I spoke, and he straightway made answer and said: `Nay, seek not to speak soothingly to me of death, glorious Odysseus. I should choose, so I might live on earth, to serve as the hireling of another, of some portionless man whose livelihood was but small, rather than to be lord over all the dead that have perished. Dead is dead. The ultimate lesson was to DISREGARD WOMEN, DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM, DO NOT FALL FOR THEIR TRICKS, DO NOT LET THEM GET BETWEEN YOU
>>217254862>an act that is objectively evil.Because you can't judge the ancient greeks using modern standards of morality. The concept of "good and evil" we take for granted is relatively recent in western history, and largely because of judeo-christian beliefs. To the greeks there weren't many hell worthy tresspasses. Hubris would get the gods to shit down your neck to teach you a lesson, and violating the laws of hospitality. And then you get some assholes who manage to do both, to the gods, and curse their entire house to be the shittiest of shitheads fucking stuff up for generations. Other than that its just honoring basic funerary rights, oathes, and loyalty to your kinship.
The Odyssey is so much better it's not even funny
>>217255566Polyphemus pls
>>217253734He isnt wrong shithead. Someone didnt take philosophy in collage.
>>217255790>in collage.
>>217255760>>217255566Chaddeus is just so much cooler than Crybabylles who isn't even there for half the books
Having watched at least least 60% of this okayish movie and being from a culture that at least pretends to read the Iliad I am an expert and I say the hierarchy of wrongness goesParis > Agamemnon > Achilles > powergap > Hector
>>217256018Paris was put in a no-win situation, and everything else is just the fallout of the vanity of the gods.
>>217256067>Paris was put in a no-win situationHe kept taking the worst way out after that one specific fuck-up too thoughAphrodite is a major bitch I agree
>>217256083a real nigga would have know the true best girl
>>217253982>Achilles was actually a homosexual in real life and his "cousin" was actually his gay lover>His actions make more sense when you understand he was distraught over losing his gay loverAh, the classic fujo cope. I think i saw the exact same thing said about Naruto and Sasuke the other day.
>I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again.Holy kino.
>>217256067He had 10 whole years to just let her go back when that was what she wanted
>>217254073It still pisses me off 20 years later.
>>217253507That's the joke, Homer isn't an ancient Greek. He's an iron age pozzed Greek who was woke with what would eventually become christcuck moralfaggotry. Everyone knows our trve ancestors were the based favstian miliusian nietszhean hyperborewn superbarbarian paganazis who had no morals and only murdered in the pursuit of total victory. That is why we must erase ALL works of fiction in all forms of media except for Conan the Barbarian and partake in no other storytelling forevermore.
>>217257578>He's an iron age pozzed GreekEarly iron age is still ancientAlthough the Trojan War does take place way before that, during the bronze age
>>217257799>iron age is still ancientNah. Greek fagosophy. Roman homovilisation. It was already the end of heroes.
>>217252126You would run like a bitch too, if the demigod who fought a river god, and won, came for your head.
>>217253252thats because you come from a family of weak men, with weak morals.
>>217255109Was Achilles a proto-chud?
>>217251781Hector was wrong for allowing his simp of a brother to bring destruction to his city. His father Priam was an even bigger fag
>>217251781Paris for being a faggot. And Helena for wanting to date a faggot.
>>217253191There are no goddesses in this movie
>>217254724They were the MCU of their time. Only you'd tell them around a campfire and shit. THey are filled with jokes and puns that kind of get lost in translation.
>>217258129The opposite. He did everything because of the bad pusi he was getting and then robbed of.
