>The exact same political structure that led to Gondor’s degeneration in the first place is restored with zero alterationsBravo, Tolkien
>>217349839Except Aragorn is the greatest king you could have
>>217349839Also Satan invaded earth
>>217349839It is made abundantly clear that Middle Earth in the Third Age is basically a post-apocalyptic wasteland with small pockets of life like Hobbiton and Rivendell. At most Aragorn was gonna be a good king but the degeneration will continue. Look up Tolkien's views on the "Long Defeat"
>>217349839it wasnt a real numenorean monarchy
>>217349839>The exact same political structure that led to Gondor’s degenerationThe stewards ruled no lomger though.
>>217349911As a kid I always thought the land seemed so desolate and it was disturbing and odd. I was such an outer city limits kids I couldn't comprehend a world where you could travel days on end and not run into something.
>>217350553Well, other than all the ruins they find constantly. It really was an apocalypse novel after what the Witch king did to anor.
>>217349839Yeah but the evil guys are gone, so the good guys can no longer be corrupted. It's if the nazis managed to kill all the jews.
>>217349839He is literally crowned by an angel in that picture, what more could you possibly want? A council by people like Grima?
>>217350603even the little baby jews in their little jewish cradles?
>>217350622They go first bc they’re the easiest to get. You don’t think a jew would kill baby Hitler? Now imagine 6 gorillan “Hitlers” for actually good people
Denethor did nothing wrong. It's not his fault he fell victim to Sauron. Many men did. Gandalf, instead of helping our dear steward, he pushed him toward his death. What a piece of shit.
>>217349839>‘It is not said that evil arts were ever practised in Gondor, or that the Nameless One was ever named in honour there; and the old wisdom and beauty brought out of the West remained long in the realm of the sons of Elendil the Fair, and they linger there still. Yet even so it was Gondor that brought about its own decay, falling by degrees into dotage, and thinking that the Enemy was asleep, who was onlybanished not destroyed.>‘Death was ever present, because the Numenoreans still, as they had in their old kingdom, and so lost it, hungered after endless life unchanging. Kings made tombs more splendid than houses of the living, and counted old names in the rolls of their descent dearer than the names of sons. Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry; in secret chambers withered men compounded strong elixirs, or in high cold towers asked questions of the stars. And the last king of the line of Anarion had no heir.
>>217349911Take your headcannon and deconstructions elsewherenice dubs
>>217350908Come back when you have read up what Tolkien says about The Long Defeat, dumb frogposter.
>>217350980A world in slow decline isn't post-apocalyptic.An apocalypse is an event you can point to, and the post-apocalypse is what comes after.I think you're just assuming that since the world is desolate and full of ruins it must be post-apocalyptic, but you're not actually thinking about that these words mean.
>>217350732Gandalf was telling him not to kys all the time.
>he’s le rightful king >this means anything at all >overthrowing long established dynasties doesn’t lead to societal instability >Faramir wouldn’t have made as noble a king GRRM may have been right….
>>217351090It didn't cause any instability though.
>>217351049As if God restructuring a flat world into a round one and wiping out the greatest civilization on the map isn't a catastrophic event. Again, read up about the Long Defeat.
>>217351090Aragorn didn't overthrow any dynasty. The throne of Gondor sat empty. Denethor and Sons came from a long line of stewards that were acting a regents until a legitimate heir came along. Denethor didn't think Aragorn was a legitimate heir because he was descended from Isildur (Anarion's brother) instead of Anarion himself. So, in his opinion, Aragorn was the heir to the fallen kingdom of Arnor and had no claim to Gondor. He was not, however, claiming to be king (though the fact that the throne remained empty was very convenient for him personally since it meant his regency would continue)
>>217351152That happened before these civilizations even existed. That event can't be responsible for their current decline.
>>217351240It 100% is. Númenorean colonies like Belfalas and Pelargir existed on Middle-earth and they basically kept it alive and prosperous. The Downfall of Numenor was basically the end of Middle-earth as well.
>>217350553I mean it's a lot harder to imagine with cars and all
>>217349911Boromir's travel to Rivendell was essentially establishing this. He went on about how once thriving roads were broken and desolate.
>>217351321Yeah you're right I was being retarded
>>217351439Cheers, have a good one
>>217350908Tolkien straight up says that the world is losing magic with every passing age. The historiography of his works is straight up ripped from ancient European myths of a golden age in the far past.
>>217349839Why they not made Frodo the king? It was he who destroyed the ring.
>>217349839Real numenorean monarchy has never been tried
Tolkien even abandoned a sequel to LotR because it was basically about evil magic cults forming and cultural decay and it was to dreary for him.
>>217350553>riding on horses in wilderness? I'm going insaneBefore we fed browns who couldn't feed themselves the average country had the population density of modern Idaho
>>217349839It doesnt matter since Sauron is gone. The story isn't about politics, it is about the struggle between good and evil.
>>217352373Even where I live today it's a 5 hour walk between the two towns over 200 years old. The biggest issue was all the rivers and creeks everywhere.
>>217349839What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
>>217349839It's not the political structure, it's humanity turning away from God that destroys nations. Tolkien was inspired by the Bible and this lesson is taught time and time again. The answer is never to change the political system, it is to turn to God.
>>217349911>The degeneration will continueNot sure I follow that. While the elves are gone and magic as you say is seeping out of the world, nothing Ive read implies that the world is turning to shit. Its meant to lead us to our modern world, and I cant reconcile Tolkien thinking that humanitys history is so bad when he loves it so much. Is Arqgorns reign eternal? No of course not, but with Sauron gone the earth is poised to enter the fourth age of Men, as they flourish and reach a new golden age on their own
>>217352789I mean sure the Fourth Age will have _some_ glory but it will be far less than the glory they saw in the Third Age, which in turn was less than the glory of the Second Age, and so on. A new "golden age" can only come when the entire world is destroyed in Dagor Dagorath and Eru decides to create a new one.
>>217349839The structure works as long as a proper numenorian ubermensch is in charge. Gondor only degenerated because they had some lame regular human steward fellow in charge.
>>217349839There has not been a king in Gondor for a thousand years (since Eärnur), only the stewards. They were not good leaders. Aragorn lead from the front.
>>217352895Yeah Im not disagreeing with you, relative to the earlier ages the divine splendor is definitely gone. But you started out saying that the third age is "basically post-apocalyptic, with humans living in isolated pockets, and shit is only going to get worse" A fair assessment of current affairs, but once the new dominion of men is established, the roads that boromir seethed at and cities like Fornost or Osgiliath would indeed be resettled and restored, so it isnt a total wash.Until Morgoth finds his way out of the void of course.
>>217350603>>217350622>>217350704Nazis say shit like this and then cry about how they're the good guys actually.
>>217349851But he ain't immortal, retard
>>217349839Wrong. What led Gondor to degeneration was the Kin-Strife, not the monarchy itself. >Zero alterations>the full monarchy was something long ago from living memory>Gondor was for millenia a standalone kingdom instead of a personal union with the Arnor like in the times of ElendilOP, never bothered to read the books.
>>217354135His children are going to be based too because he comes from a based bloodline
>>217351568Losing magic doesn’t mean the future is being subjugated by orcs under an evil overlord, it just means elves and other monsters fuck off and the earth becomes mundane
>>217349911Kain is deified. The Clans tell tales of Him. Few know the truth. He was mortal once, as were we all. However, His contempt for humanity drove him to create me, and my brethren. I am Raziel, first-born of His lieutenants. I stood with Kain and my brethren at the dawn of the empire. I have served Him a millennium. Over time, we became less human and more ...divine. Kain would enter the state of change and emerge with a new gift. Some years after the master, our evolution would follow. Until I had the honor of surpassing my lord. For my transgression, I earned a new kind of reward... agony. There was only one possible outcome - my eternal damnation. I, Raziel, was to suffer the fate of traitors and weaklings - to burn forever in the bowels of the Lake of the Dead.Tumbling, burning with white-hot fire, I plunged into the depths of the abyss. Unspeakable pain... relentless agony... ... time ceased to exist... ... only this torture... and a deepening hatred of the hypocrisy that damned me to this hell.An eternity passed, and my torment receded, bringing me back from the precipice of madness. The descent had destroyed me... and yet I lived.
>>217354748>Implying that greatness doesn't skip the generation
>>217354200Massive civil wars over succession only occur in monarchial political systems which is what is restored
>>217355568>over successionThat's more an excuse rather than the cause of civil wars most of the time. You can't really start a rebellion if you don't have enough powerful people who want to rebel in the first place.The benefit of this is that whoever wins is going to continue the previous government of the dead king rather than recreate a new government system from scratch.
>>217352373>talk about lotr>can't keep brown dick out of his mouthcertified snowbunny mentality
>>217354135>But he ain't immortal, retard
>>217355517Maybe in your bloodline
>>217355630Well yes discontent over a monarch and a strong alternative candidate that is perceived to have better qualities is what causes the civil war. But if the alternative candidate does win usually it is accompanied by many changes in the political system even if the system is still monarchical (see: England) where said alternative candidate has to give concessions to various powerful groups to make up for their lack of legitimacy. So, for instance, it’s not actually clear whether Aragorn’s claim to Gondor comes from being Isilidur’s heir or whether it comes from being the closest kin of the last Gondorian king via Firiel, which is a bit of chicanery which could lead to civil wars down the line like the Wars of the Roses where say, for instance, the nephew of one king through the female line disputes the succession of a distant male line cousin to the throne of Gondor. This is unique to monarchial systems.
Yeah lets install a shitty democracy instead and start chopping dicks off
>>217352946>>217353088Gondor’s degeneration did not begin with the Stewards
>>217355823Aragorn claim was based on his descent from Isildur, who was the recognized high-king of Arnor and Gondor. His claim via Firiel (which also puts him as a descendant of Anarion) is only valid because there was no other contestant, but in any case Aragorn claim was accepted due lack of rivals, and popular/nobility accepting of it. Faramir, as the acting stewart relinquished his post remember? The Stewart accepted Aragorn claim.
>>217349911the only place that is extremely fucked beyond recognition is gondor,and also arnor.but rivendel,rohan,lorien etc have big stronholds with lots of people even if they are in decay.and there are bandits and corsairs everywhere too,but its not that post apocalytpic.
>>217354748>based bloodline
>>217349839There is no perfect form of governance. Defeating Sauron and restoring the alliance between Rohan and Gondor while having a just king of Numenorian descend set up the Free Peoples of Middle Earth to have a new golden age for a long time. When it eventually would get corrupted again you take the new conflict when it happens.
>>217358836The dude gets too much shit for this. Frodo also couldn't resist the ring's temptation right at the point where it was created. He did defeat Sauron.
>>217349839Issue of Gondor wasn't in political structure though.
>>217359268This. Gondor's white cishereronormative patriarchal power structure was built into its very language and history.
>>217349839Difference is they removed the foreign invaders.
>>217350616>He is literally crowned by an angel in that picture, what more could you possibly want?An election held by the municipal authorities, nobles, representatives of the church and citizens of able means.Mortis semper tyrannis.
>>217349839Now that Sauron is defeated will gondor accept female orc refugees from Mordor?
>>217359684You're in luck, there are no cute females orcs, only fighting age male orc refugees. Imagine how culturally enriched your manwomen will be!
>>217349839Shouldn't he be crowned by a Gondorian religious official?
>>217359769Uh... manmenbros? How do we feel about this?
>>217359769>no cute females orcshavent you watched the rings of powah?
>>217359684Elessar led an orc genocide
>>217360638Wouldn't that be a war crime?
>>217360688That hasn’t stopped him before
>>217349839But it was Sauron that ruined everything from Numenor onwards and he’s dead…
>>217360688what are you gonna do, call the war police?
>>217359795Gandalf is literally an angel who saw and spoke to God in the time before creation
>>217362873Gandalf is way, WAY too OP for the story. His "Order of Wizards" may as well just be him and Saruman for as little the other wizards play a role in the story. You can say whatever headcanon you want, but the brown and blue wizards should have greatly expanded roles. As it is, God sent down 5 wizards and the majority sucked ass hard and failed their mission.
>>217350603here's still some orcs, goblins and trolls left, possibly other evil creatures
>>217350622no children are evil. only a jew deals in absolutes
>>217358836Isildur was pretty swell guy up to this point, and Tolkien himself said that no one who claimed The Ring could willingly destroy it on their own.
>>217354111meanwhile in a jew tunnel....
>>217355435such a good intro it was
>>217359684no. aragorn hunts orcs for sport now
>>217360688you can't warcrime evil creatures like orcs
>>217349839>The exact same political structure that led to Gondor’s degeneration in the first place???? Gondor degenerated because it was led by stewards instead of the semi-divine lineage of elves and men that founded it. A proper heir of isildur is back on the throne. Gondor's course has been righted.
>>217355568Ever heard of the American Civil War, dunce-kun?
>>217363456Holy shit you are stupid
