>>217376378
tbf, it's always been a gay ip

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Why in the world would they hire the same person to destroy multiple series. Kurtzmann is not Rodenberry and he loves to force LGBTQ crap down your throat. How is Paramount so inept?

All the great shows like Enterprise cancelled way too soon. But now they can just force gay shit down your throat and ratings don't matter because streaming services?

>>217376378
It's pretty clear from watching the new show that they have a very specific audience in mind. It has been going on long enough that there really isn't a reason to get upset about it now.

>>217376378
You keep watching it, dumbass.

>>217376611
i watched s1 of discovery and picard and an episode of lower drecks

>>217376611
Not me.
I never made it to season 2 of STD or Picard.
Watching Picard was like watching a childhood friend get fed slowly into a woodchipper.

>>217376606
But where is that audience?

>>217376378
Why is she a big fat fuck? Is it a side effect of not taking that drug anymore?

>>217376378
The only good star trek series was DS9.

>>217376655
>But where is that audience?
It's a fantasy audience they think will somehow materialize. For some reason, they think the alphabet crowd and wokesters will suddenly take a liking to trek and scifi in general, and start watching this in droves. It's the same mythical audience or consumer that other brands are hoping for when they launch wokeshit.

>>217376679
How do jemhadar even breed? They were grown in test tubes. Possibly they used to be a different race the was genetically altered by the founders, but it seems like that would have been a reptillian race. After DS9 did the jemhadar get freedom and then they somehow genetically altered themselves again to have dicks? Would they lay eggs? Did they genetically invent females and made sure they had tits? Do they produce ketrecel white from those tits now?

>>217376378
>>217376505
DJ Qualls looks FANTASTIC

>>217376378
kurtzman and jarjar killed trek long ago, they are now at the stage of abusing the corpse

>>217376655
Well, getting it is a separate issue from targeting it.

They seem to think that the new targeted crowd is a sweet spot between the niche but devoted 'trekies' and the brief mainstream success they had with the reboot movies.

Can somebody explain these decisions from a business perspective? Can they really expect enough profit?

>>217376791
Paramount/CBS getting jewed by Kurtzman because he signed some ridiculous contract with them years ago that makes making this slop cheaper than breaking said contract.

>>217376791
Best case assumption - tax write off
Worst case assumption - ideological warfare

>>217376703
But they've been doing it for nearly a decade now and no one is showing up. In fact they've probably lost all their audience since STD started. That one actually had a fair bit of hype, hope and expectations behind it.

But I like those characters, they're funny.

>>217376378
>Nerds let women and faggots into nerd franchises in the 00s
>Women and faggots take the helm of nerd franchises in the early 2010s
>Trump gets elected in 2016
>TDS takes over and destroys nerd IPs

Their seething hatred for the Orange Man is why they refuse to step down even after a decade of flops and failures. Marvel, Star Wars, Star Trek, Mass Effect, all your favorite IPs have been ruined by the same people.

>>217376791
highly unlikely, everything nutrek seems insanely expensive for basically no return

>>217376817
Picard was the final nail in the coffin for most I think, particularly any TNG lover.
You can't trust the people who made that to understand star trek.
Even if you take it as some kind of deconstruction of trek values it still completely shits the bed compared to DS9. DS9 understood TNG perfectly and broke its rules with purpose.

>>217376606
>It's pretty clear from watching the new show that they have a very specific audience in mind
It's pretty clear from the new show that they don't care about having an audience and all they actually care about is using established IPs like a bullhorn for their greater agenda.

>>217376640
Picard was so depressing. It took everything I liked about TNG and the Picard character and threw grime and shit and anger and pathos all over it. Unless they pull their head out of their ass and maybe do a hard reboot (hell, make it retro and kitchy aesthetically like the original series) and get back to the core elements that made ST work in the first place.

Has any one individual done more damage to any franchise than Kurtzman has to Trek?
I don't even think the damage done to Star Wars is in the same league.

>>217376655
>But where is that audience?
there is no audience ,it is not about an audience or the making of money. The purpose of this garbage is propaganda for the ideology of the regime.
The powers that be don't care if you don't watch it. This is what they are going to force down everyone's throat. The terrifying part is the large number of people in the regime who are true believers and have actually internalized this nonsense.

As long as the federal reserve can print funny money the propaganda will continue, without end

>>217376606
>>217376655
I think they're still making shows based on the idea that getting online engagement is the only real metric for success.

so if huge numbers of people are complaining about your show online, that indirectly advertises your streaming service (in theory).

anyway now that streaming services are all having to shift to ad-supported models this nightmare should start drawing to a close.

>>217376967
nolan ruined batman, ruined the entire superhero genre really

>>217377035
At least 1 of those movies is good on its own grounds at least. Nothing in nu trek is good at all.

there's like heaps of fake 5 star reviews for audience score on RT
they aren't even trying to make it look convincing

>>217377001
>so if huge numbers of people are complaining about your show online, that indirectly advertises your streaming service

But that only works for so long. There are less and less people who know or care about original Trek. The modern audience only know what it is now. Hell, even the reboot movies are starting to look ancient.

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>>217376791
Companies used to have a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. That's long gone now thanks to Blackrock and their relationship with the Federal reserve.

>>217376816
trvke

>>217376378
Some straight white males still like the franchise. For them, this means further contamination is not only needed, it's mandatory.

>>217377154
bingo
its not about the money, the purpose of a system is what it does
the system produces gay propaganda because that is what those in power want produced

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>>217376655
Ignore the cuck, there is no audience and he's merely repeating the "expanding the market" excuse. The core concept is always the same: Whatever you do, nothing, not even a single piece, no element has to be enjoyable for the straight white man.

>>217377201
No you dumbfuck polmigatard. WOMEN pay for stuff. They LOVE paying for stuff. Men will pirate AND harshly criticize shows. So, all shows since the 2000s pander to the paying market. So, who is to blame? The answer is DS9. This series brought in the dude bros due to the Star Warseque spesh pewpew. The dudebros bring their stacies to watch along and stacies bring their purple haired 'nerd' friends too. DS9 was a mistake.

>>217377250
DS9 brought in dudebros? Are you fucking serious? There was barely any big pew pew in the first 5 seasons, and the show is almost entirely focused and nuanced characters and politics.
How the fuck did you conclude that it appeals to dude bros when it was severely under watched compared to TNG and I think less watched than the dumbest classic trek which is Voyager.

>>217377001
ads dont help anything because the metrics are compromised. they manipulate the viewership numbers, extort the reviewers, and bot social media.

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>>217376378
They just gave what the people wanted.

>>217377250
>So, all shows since the 2000s pander to the paying market.
if you think its about money and the making of money you still don't understand the world in which you live.
yes women buy shit but no women are watching star trek and the show is not designed in the least to appeal to actual women
regardless its not about money its about the message and the propaganda will continue even if it never makes money
there is no amount of money that they will lose that will stop the production of the propaganda.

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>>217377301
>certified fresh

>>217377301
computer, check the user score and play an appropriate sound

>>217377362
even with heaps of fake and gay 5 star reviews it can't even get over 40%

it's interesting how the gamification of social media has made the internet so fucking gay and stupid

>>217377035
>>217377250
Real mental illness hours up in here

>>217376505
>Why in the world would they hire the same person to destroy multiple series. Kurtzmann is not Rodenberry and he loves to force LGBTQ crap down your throat. How is Paramount so inept?
>All the great shows like Enterprise cancelled way too soon. But now they can just force gay shit down your throat and ratings don't matter because streaming services?

There's a bit of history. It was all because of a hateful CEO that got fired.

During the early 2000s, the former CEO (forgot his name) of Paramount/CBS was fired from his job by the Board of Directors for poor performance.

So as a final "f*ck you" to the company, the fired CEO signed a 20 YEAR exclusive contract with Secret Hideout in 2005. I believe the longest exclusive deal in history. This was done during his final days holding the position as CEO. Not even joking. The final thing he did before leaving.

This contract gave exclusive rights to produce Star Trek to Secret Hideout only. No other company could touch Star Trek. And the penalty for canceling the contract was massive. Reportedly the rumors say it would be hundreds of Millions of dollars that Paramount would need pay upfront to Secret Hideout to cancel the contract. There's no getting out of the contract without paying a huge cost.

So Paramount decided to just let the contract stay in place and run down the clock. They waited 20 years and let Kurtzman do what he wanted. But The contract officially expired on December 2025...after 20 years of waiting.

Which is why Strange New Worlds, Lower Decks, Discovery, Prodigy, and Star Trek Academy (only filmed 1 season) were all canceled. Paramount immediately ordered Secret Hideout and Alex Kurtzman to cease all productions and tear down all film sets by 2025.

Alex Kurtzman has been trying to renegotiate a new contract with Paramount. But rumor says Paramount is NOT interested. They want to reboot Trek and bring back the TNG era cast. Possibly do an Enterprise "Admiral Archer" show as well.

>>217376378
It's absurd how much they hate white men.

>>217376711
The don't breed. That's the point.
Their disposable sexless genital-less violent foot soldiers who were created by some powerful giant lizard type creature that they kept in line with genetic engineering and ketracel white. Oh and they have a lifespan of just under 15 years.

There was never a base humanoid gem'hadar species. Ever.
This is it.
They could have just made her a klingon and called it a day.

>>217377399
Presumably Paramount is funding these productions though? Do they have any creative control at all?
Why don't they just not fund this shit and wait out the clock that way. Did the contract stipulate X many shows had to be made or something?

>>217377399
The sad thing is Paramount would let Kurtzman keep Star Trek if he would do it on the cheap.
The money men at the studio don't actually care if what is being produced is not watched by anyone or that its bad propaganda only that its cheap to make.

>>217376899
DS9's producers agree, they fucking hate nutrek

>>217377453
Out of a lizard creature, not by a lizard creature.
The founders created we'youn's species out of some small animal the same as they created the jem'hadar out of some powerful lizard type creature.
Both are genetically engineered to be totally controlled and live for and die for the founders.

>>217377577
For the Vorta I know this is 100% the case. I don't remember it being clearly stated that that is also the case for the jem'hadar. There's plenty to imply it, just wondering if there is a 100% confirmation somewhere in ds9 that you know of. I don't remember it if there is

>>217377462
>Presumably Paramount is funding these productions though?
Funding sources have been mixed. It's not just Paramount/CBS. Nickelodeon funded Prodigy. Netflix funded Discovery (at least season 1 and 2). Paramount/CBS funded later seasons via their streaming platforms. They hoped the new subscribers would help pay for Discovery and SNW's huge budgets. Unfortunately Paramount was wrong and they lost a ton of money and hurt the company.

>Do they have any creative control at all?
Some creative control. But not 100%

>Why don't they just not fund this shit and wait out the clock that way.

Because Paramount can't just let Star Trek sit for 20 years doing nothing. It's a waste of a franchise. The franchise needs to make money for Paramount...even if the person in charge of Trek is disliked. Star Trek is (or was) one of Paramount's biggest money makers. Especially in merchandise sales (DVDs, Blu-rays, toys, games, etc).

So they gave Secret Hideout chance to do their own thing. Starting with the JJ Abram reboot Kelvin movies. The first movie was well received and made money. So Paramount said "okay. If they are making money then we won't stand in their way." But things have been going downhill ever since in terms of money.

>>217377468
If Kurtzman Trek was mediocre or a 6/10, then Paramount could live with it. But yeah... Kurtzman Trek has the biggest budgets in Trek history. I forgot the exact figure but Discovery was like $5 million an episode. Kurtzman loves using CGI.

>>217376378
>Nig Totaro

>>217377659
In a vacuum most of the cgi is pretty good, but it's in service of nothing and is tonally completely wrong for trek. TNG and DS9 delivered far more impactful space battles for a microscopic fraction of the nutrek budgets.
Hell Wrath of Khan Budget was 12 million back in the day, and was far better and cheaper than any season of STD

>>217377659
more like 10mil or more, std had an insane budget at the start

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>>217376378
what the fuck is "maximum warp"?

>>217377696
What would be cheaper than all the CGI would be an HD remaster of DS9 and VOY. They could then bundle it with TNG, TOS, and ENT and sell it to networks or stream services that air commercials.
You know make money by selling shows people actually watch

>>217377740
i have the tng blurays right here, they actually did a fantastic job with those, i fear they wouldn't put the same amount of care into the rest and we'd end up with a buffy situation

>Gina Yashere
Went for pics and the actress isn't even that fat in photos. The character actually looks fatter than the actress. What gives?

>>217376816
You don’t make something for a tax write off. Donating 1000 dollars so you can write that off your taxes and save 300 still puts you out 700 dollars. Tax write offs just give you some money back, but you’d have more money not spending it in the first place. The reason they make pozzed shit like this is because Hollywood is full of leftist activists pushing their beliefs and ideology into everything. It’s just propaganda. You can’t make anything in Hollywood without going through layers and layers of kikes and leftists making sure you tick off all their boxes and meet all their requirements so that your program is sufficiently pozzed.

>>217377797
as long as scanned the film and released that in hd i would be happy. i would happily settle for a babylon 5 scenario.
the special effects would be recreated by the fans eventually and you would get a proper release that way

>>217377813
everyone in the federation is fat now, it's mandatory

>>217376723
wtf I thought he died??

>>217376967
i dont know dude, kennedy has really done a number on star wars. it used to be this monolothic thing and now it's a sad joke

>>217377301
Does that zesty black man have a bulgy wulgy?

>>217376378
Is that Tit Nomoro?

>>217377740
>>217377797
>>217377837
Unfortunately I don't trust Paramount to do it properly. They will half-assed any Ds9 or Voy remaster and use AI upscaling to save money. Then probably say something like "don't hate AI. Be glad we are doing this remaster at all".

>>217376972
anon. no one is watching it. propaganda requires people see it to have any impact.

>>217377001
>now that streaming services are all having to shift to ad-supported models this nightmare should start drawing to a close.
because they're going to start posting independently verifiable viewership numbers and not just continue to lie about how many people see an ad?

>>217377943
i don't disagree with you anon and yet the people in charge don't seem to care. they make propaganda that no one watches.
we live in a strange world

>>217376946
They have no idea how to make comfy episodic tv any more

>>217378000
or the reality is much simpler. they're a media company. to maintain the illusion they aren't completely obsolete, they must continue to produce media.

>>217377733
I always interpreted that to mean whatever the engines were prepared to produce under the current circumstances, not necessarily the theoretical top speed of the engine under ideal circumstances. Full impulse is the same, but varies more according to the ship class than the maintenance of the engines, and it has to be sublight speed.
I don't know how much there is a space (or subspace) "geography" that affects the speed.

>>217378015
CBS still does it. they refuse to try it with trek

>>217377813
Gina Yashere was a really shit comedian like 20 years ago, whose only bit was "me mums from Nigeria, innit".
They put her in this?

>>217377906
there was a lot less star wars to destroy and half of it wasnt any good anyway
>OT
>Prequels
>Clone Wars
thats pretty much it from lucas

>>217376867
Maybe they're trying to tank the IP so they can sell it off? I dunno, I'm assuming them making it as bad as possible is money related

>>217377813
black is slimming. blue isn't.

>>217377943
>propaganda requires people see it to have any impact.

not that anon but they are watching it, you the fan of the original shows along with everyone else are suffering through these shows and being shown exactly the world as those o powet envision it to be. no matter the younger fans are not tuning in they are getting the same propaganda from shows they are actually watching.

>>217376505
>they made it woke!
Star trek was always woke.

>>217378119
No, a lot of us aren't watching it. I haven't watched anything past a few eps of Picard, and I gave up on std before season 2 as well.
The fact that it exists though and I see snippets of this shit through clips/trailers/forums/4chan is enough to deal psychic damage to me.

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>>217377733
>74 KB JPG

>>217378119
anon. as far as i'm concerned nutrek doesn't exist at all. i don't watch it. no one else watches it.

>>217377250
No you’re retarded. The majority of people, men included, do not pirate or use free streaming sites. Also, among the people that do lots of studies show that men only do so 10-20% more than women, so lots of women do it to. Women know how to pirate or use free streaming sites, and men have wives and girlfriends who do those things for them too. Men are a huge market too.

You’re trying to say it’s just a financial decision yet all of these franchises, movies, and shows are failing by trying to pander to women, gays, and shitskins by making their content gay, lame and pozzed as fuck? Why would they keep doing that then? If they’re making pozzed propaganda to try and make money, yet it’s failing to reach an audience to make money, why would they continue doing it? It’s been well over a decade of this too so they’ve clearly realized it’s not working and isnt going too, yet they keep doing it.Even your own logic makes no sense. Fuck off with your Reddit cope. You’re literally retarded.

>>217377884
legit mandela

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Target demographics most likely to lose sanity during announcement of alien disclosure.

We need to spin everyone up so they will still go to work, still take care of their children, keep the power on, hospitals going during alien disclosure.
Understand?

>>217377943
People are watching it, just not enough for it to be anywhere even close to profitable. And it doesn’t matter if this show is watched or not. It’s propaganda, if you make something that isn’t propaganda and is actually good, people will watch that instead. The point is to make sure everything is propaganda so that people have no choice but to watch propaganda. If it was about making money then this and a lot of other shows/movies would not be being made, and if they were they would be made much differently.

>>217378017
But why would they make media that nobody watches? Why not remove the things people don’t like and make something people will actually watch? Why do they insist of putting in shit people don’t want? Because it’s propaganda.

>>217378454
>why would they make media that nobody watches?

because they can.

>>217376378
why not? blackrock will happily funnel your money to it

>>217378408
>it doesn’t matter if this show is watched or not. It’s propaganda

except propaganda has to be seen to have any effect. otherwise the only effect it has is telling people to not watch it

>>217378466
Exactly, they can and they will because their main goal isn’t making money, it’s pushing ideology. Aka propaganda.

>>217378487
how do you push ideology with media no one will see?

you're adding an extra step to this model that simply isn't necessary. they make media because if they don't, they aren't a media production company, which will crash their stock.

>>217378478
It doesn't need to be seen in its entirety to have an effect.
The announcement of every nutrek after STD filled me with deep dread.

>>217378507
>oh no, media i won't watch, i am now endreadeded

okay so retards aside, how does media no one watches affect anything?

>>217378162
We used to use size saving filetypes before webp

>>217378478
Propaganda needs to be watched to have an effect, but not all propaganda. If everything is propaganda people have no choice but to watch it. If only half of stuff is propaganda people will just watch the half that isn’t. If you want people to watch propaganda you have make sure everything is propaganda.

>>217376505
Money
Laundering

>>217378180
it's agitprop for retards like you. They DO NOT want the slaves comparing notes and becoming a force to be reckoned with anon.
Look at the net and how "google" has helped kill the internet.
How bots/AI trained to destroy the mind, create division and plant poison seeds in the minds of people
The nigh impregnable bubbles of self fulfilling prohpecies keeping people sepereate and turning them completely insane in an augmented reality that is continuously fed into purposely with altered and oft totally fake information and media.

That's the plan.

>>217378515
It adds up with the scale of global (mostly amercian) culture

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>>217378134
To the moderate woke = lacking in quality due to attempt to force a progressive message/statement. Star Trek was definitively NOT woke a good deal of the time because it typically had quality writing and nuance to the ethical situations it presented that usually bore some progressive message.

The Orville is a great example of some modern media chock full of progressive writing without feeling like woke slop- whenever a moral dilemma arises there's a deep exploration of both sides of the argument, and while there's usually a pretty clear side the viewer's intended to favor, it doesn't feel like the writer is sincerely trying to understand both perspectives and isn't talking down to the audience the way woke slop does.

Pic related is one of the most interesting and thought provoking episodes of modern a show I've seen in awhile.

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>>217378478
What matters is taking the toys away from white children.

>>217378505
People do see the ideology. If not in this show than another. If you make a show without the ideology people will watch that. If you want your propaganda to be seen you have to put it everywhere so people have no choice but to see it.

If they cared about their stock price they would make good shows and movies people want to see that make money and raise their stock higher. If Thor main goal was to raise their stock, they would make things people want to see.

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>>217378478
you just need to focus on kids

I think the setting STD created with the kind of post-post-apocalyptic environment in space was actiay pretty cool, there's a lot of cool ideas you could explore in how galactic mega-civilisation reassetts itself after centuries of isolation. But this isn't it.

>>217378524
you just keep spinning harder and harder mental gymnastics to validate this victim complex you desperately need to be true.

the reality is hollywood is dead, but they can maintain the illusion they're still solvent with creative accounting, which requires steady production of media. they don't have to post viewership data anywhere and there's no one checking to see if their output is actually being watched. the alternative is admitting they've been committing tantamount fraud for the last decade or more.

>>217378606
This shit is evil

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>>217378661
come on dude, it's just a western cartoon

>>217377733
It's a warp only women can achieve, you CHUD!

Star Trek always looked stupid as fuck.

>>217376402
It's amazing how people still don't see ST was always gay commie crap

>>217378564
except actual star trek still exists and will exist in perpetuity and nothing can change that.

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>>217376378
>why do they keep doubling/tripling/quadrupling/quintupling down
Has anyone else pointed out that we are in fact at the end of it, right now?

This moment is the first time in ten years that no Star Trek series is currently being filmed. Every project has either wrapped or been aborted. The rest of Strange New Worlds and Academy will be rattled off because they were completed, but that's it.

>>217378690
anon, we're in the stage of capitalism that requires money be constantly printed to keep the economy from crashing.

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>>217378681

>>217378712
>nose ring

>>217378540
There is nothing wrong with getting agitated at bad things. The problem is people who don’t get agitated at them defend them because they think they’re good. You’re right, they want a system of slaves, that’s why they’re importing the third world into the west. Something like that has to be stopped, and people are right to call it out. But some people defend it and want it to continue, they’re a problem and make it impossible to stop the root of it. But if people don’t get agitated at the bad things they do and call out the people defending them and enabling them to continue it then what? What should they do instead. You’re just trying to stifle all conversation, you’re probably a kike yourself.

>>217376378
production for SA started years ago during the biden DEI BLM years. the show producers probably imagined kamala to be president right now.

>>217378646
You are not wrong anon but the fellow you are arguing with does have a point. The ruling regime deploys propaganda for a larger purpose. It wants people distracted, watching television and playing video games, not taking an interest in how the country is being governed.
the poor quality of propaganda is causing people to disconnect from the circus and find other activities some of which might be dangerous to the powers that be.
the fact that the ruling elite don't seem to understand the function of the bread and circus system actually says a great deal about the current ruling elite.

>>217378762
>The problem is people who don’t get agitated at them defend them because they think they’re good.

Those people don't exist. What you think are those people are paid shills. As internet astroturf has been standard marketing for the better part of two decades now.

read: they pay people to pretend to like things on every internet space they can post on.

>>217376378
>like what is the plan here?
They think Star Trek is an IP and not a genre.
What makes old Star Trek good is the kind of stories it tells and how it tells them.

NuTrek is treated like Star Wars: just make whatever and throw Jedis in it. "College Drama with Klingons and Vulcans" is not "Star Trek".
The Orville, with optimistic stories about diplomacy, is closer to "Star Trek" than anything Kurtzman has made.

>>217378744
>nose ring

never lies

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>>217376378
Once you understand this repost you'll see it's not "doubling down", it's a whole frame of reference shift, that's always the same, OP

>>217378821
>screencapping an archive of your own post

>>217378789
>they're distracting people from the state of the nation with shows no one will watch but it isn't working which is disturbing

>>217378646
No, what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense. Yes, Hollywood is dead because they’re a propaganda business now. They’ve stopped making shows and movies people want to see, and instead only make propaganda.

Your own logic isn’t consistent with itself. You say they’re just creating media to stay afloat and maintain their stock, yet if they can do that by making shit nobody wants to watch, then they could certainly do that by making these people want to watch. In fact they’d make even more money doing so.

There’s no reason for them to make shit people don’t want to watch if they’re acting in the way you say they are. The only reason for them to continue making shit people don’t like is because that’s their true goal.

You’re the one spinning mental gymnastics friend.

>>217378839
now tell me how it's wrong

>>217378762
Oh shit.
You're an NPC.
Anon, we're the slaves.

>>217378855
No, they are not attempting to distract and that is what is disturbing. The current elite for whatever reason don't seem to understand that the purpose of things like television and video games is to keep people, young men in particular, distracted and disengaged.

>>217378857
the executives hire yesmen who won't question anything. genuine success is disincentivized by taxation of profit. operating at a loss results in no taxation.

>>217378794
Nah, those people definitely exist.
Everyone on reddit isn’t a shill or a bot. And you’re delusional if you don’t think they’re are a lot of people who defend the mass importation of third worlders the elite bring in to create their slave class.

Your time would be better spent getting your message across to the people who enable and defend the elite in creating their slave class, rather than the people who recognize what they’re doing and get agitated at the bad shit they do. You’re just coming off as a kike by saying nobody is defending what the elites don’t create their slave class, that’s obviously it true.

>>217376378
Nerds once liked the show, so they're making sure there's no more chuds left in the fandom.

>>217378936
>Everyone on reddit isn’t a shill or a bot
considering reddit punishes wrongthink with downvotes, which are easily controlled by shills/bots, yes, they effectively are.