When did you realise this show was made to laugh at the pathetic nature of the Mob? It’s essentially a black comedy about fat retarded wops larping as Prohibition era gangsters or Sicilians while living in 2000s suburbs. Still good though.
They were fucking your wife when she was young and hot, smoking cigars, and getting paid for no-show jobs while you work a 9-5 and cry.
>>217807329If I were a carpenter, and you were a douchebag…
>>217807329Try reading Donnie Brasco, Sammy Gravano book or listening to the audiobook versions and you'll quickly understand how stereotypical they actually are. Every day they seem to have these macho man arguments where they tell others to fuck off, how they are right and others are wrong and they get into all kinds of arguments over simple things instead of being 100% professional as you might have visioned the american mob. Sure they do some things in cover, but they are still 90IQ fat guys, bench pressers, addicts, gun maniacs or all of them at once. So it's not a joke per se, you had to be there.
>>217807329TrueThey look goofy as fuck too
>>217807329It's making fun of performative masculinity while simultaneously catering to performative males who are usually too dumb to grasp any higher concept like irony, like >>217807363.
>>217810011>her only ironically fucked my gf>muh performative malesI mean this actually, define "performative" males. It's sounds like made up women bullshit.
>>217810045Performative males are men who are essentially a caricature of the male stereotype. They lack any self esteem or intrinsic value and therefore look at social conventions and media to see what is considered male by the current culture. They then adopt and usually exaggerate those behaviors to appear "male", but usually it's glaringly obvious to others that they are only playing a role. They are also the people who get irrationally angry at men who do not adhere to the standards of masculinity they believe in.
>>217810193every man is a performative male, one or another. same goes for women
>>217807329I mean, unless you were too young or lack any sort of critical thinking skills, which I know a lot of people do, then the show’s themes and critiques should be very obvious the first time around. The show tried to respect the audience’s intelligence and may not have spelt it out for you constantly like a modern second screen show but even they had to basically spell it out for you by the end because so many viewers actually thought it was a glorification of the mob and a life of organised crime, making Tony a cartoonish ogre by season 6.
>>217810295Yeah sure, all gender norms are social constructs, but performative males are the subsection who make adhering to gender norms their whole identity.
>>217807329>>217810307
It's a show about "izzat".Someone makes a joke at Tony, and Tony loses izzat so he now has to beat the guy up to regain his izzat.
>>217810295no difference whatsoever between a guy that works out for aesthetic reasons and andrew tate amirite my fellow brainiac
It's for the average joe. Think of past movie stars: Robert De Niro, Bruce Willis and Nicholas Cage. They weren't handsome, but they had charisma. Where the modern stars like this?
>>217810638>>217810353>>217810193>>217810011Spoken like a transwoman. This is you in real life:https://youtube.com/watch?v=1HZDFNe4K50
>>217807329Episode one like most people because that’s literally the premise of the show. Are you a retard?
>>217810193I was born with a dick and have chromosomes you wish you didn't have.That's all that's required to make me a male, faggot.
>>217810193Are you an adult virgin?
>>217811386I'm sure he's taken plenty of dick
>>217811365I think that's literally the point. You don't have to act a certain way to be male, you just are.
mate, I haven't seen sopranos yet and even I know the scene where they try to watch godfather only to get stuck on FBI warningif that doesnt tell you its satire, I don't know what will
>>217811423Sure you don't have to, but you'd be a complete faggot if you wanted to but didn't because some troon on 4chan said it gave him the ick
>>217810193That's not what it means at all you retard. A performative male is a male who performs for women, to get laid. They're what we used to call male feminists or virtue-signaling men. They're into matcha and have a mullet mustache combo.Don't use terms you don't know the meaning off.
>>217810193Tony isn’t performative though. If anything the characters are being performative in their nu-male attributes like Chrissy and scriptwriting or Tony and going to therapy. The villains like the Shaw of Iran and Ralphie are the ones who are overcompensating for their lack of masculinity.
>>217810295Women have more intrinsic value. They don't define themselves as being not-masculine the way men define themselves as being not-feminine.
>>217807329The sopranos lifestyle seems interesting when you're a teenager and your brain hasn't fully developed.As an adult, you realise even the more likeable characters are hypocritical pieces of shit. The comedic element really shines>"What, you gonna shoot me">Chris and Jackie having the literacy and numeracy of children and being too stupid to even realise>Gloria hitting tony with a slab of roast beef>Chris and Pauline in the woods>Andrea throwing up over herself and the fedsSeeing these idiots reap what they sow is more entertaining than the plot. I reckon I was in my early twenties when I noticed this.
>>217811593>Women have more intrinsic value. Is this why you're working so hard at being one?Never gonna happen, pal.
>>217811622No I'm happy being a man but I wish we had a better collective identity than being aggressive and violent. It honestly seems like all those sigma edits are subtly feminist while convincing themselves they're actually based.Because it was really feminists who pushed that idea that masculinity is a kind of destructive, inherently toxic, violent, controlling kind of thing.
>>217807363You're a low iq retard. This is what happens to the trashy whores who get involved with the mob:https://youtu.be/1CDlBLvc3YE?si=SwlbGi2F25cochUa&t=39
>>217807329I think there was a scene where someone was talking about Parvati being fat as fuck and then the next scene immediately cuts to her gorging on a plate of food.
>>217807329Tony says outright in an early episode, "y'ever feel like you came in at the end of something?" Its a show that came out at the end of the century/millennium about third generation immigrants who have inherited something they're not exactly grateful for and are doing a shitty job administering it>Tony's grandfather was a stonemason, he can take AJ on a little tour of churches and buildings he worked on>Tony's dad foregoes a trade to become a violent criminal parasite, leeching money from actual tradesmen and business owners>Tony becomes Boss at a young age to the resentment of older mafioso who worked harder than he ever did, mostly observed sitting around and eating while throwing tantrums about how hard he works, has constant panic attacks The entire treatise of the show is that we're a nation of fat entitled babies abusing weaker people, and the people who fail to recognize that are often the fattest and most entitled babies you'rlve ever met
>>217807329When I watched it. How could you ever have any other impression?
>>217813532>Tony becomes Boss at a young age to the resentment of older mafioso who worked harder than he ever didThe other capos all supported Tony, and Uncle Junior was the boss until he got pinched by the feds and Tony had to be acting boss
>>217811682Life is always about aggression. If we're not eating animals, we're eating plants that also respond to pain, and if we're not eating plants we're eating bacteria or just cells, all still independent organisms. The older you get the more you realize your job is to fuck over others and help your own kin the most. Those who don't will disappear. Both their line and their ideas disappear.
>>217813532>>Tony becomes Boss at a young age to the resentment of older mafioso who worked harder than he ever did, mostly observed sitting around and eating while throwing tantrums about how hard he works, has constant panic attacksNo, that's a deliberate misinterpretation of events. All of the older mafioso are portrayed as unreasonable, entitled psychos who believed their owed something for going to prison. Tony comes across as far more reasonable and sensible.
>>217813642And in later seasons they're all quietly stewing about what a shitty administrator he is, and after he gets shot by Junior, they immediately start talking about cutting off Carmella and Vito even implies he could become the boss if Tony doesn't recover, they plainly do not respect Tony even if they did initially
>>217813733>Tony B goes to prison for years after getting pinched in a job he had to do solo>Tony S wasn't there because he had a panic attack after his mom yelled at himTony is a weak minded baby who coasts by on the strength of his dad's reputation.
>>217813532>at a young ageWhich older mafioso were in the running to be boss of jersey? Other than uncle Jr, who was boss prior to Tony?Feech and Ritchie are obviously resentful of him after the fact, but neither of them existed when he was made boss, not are either of them portrayed to be the kind to make an effective boss.
>>217813809He kicks the shit out of that golem.
>>217808448His nose isnt even big, his upper mandible is just recessed
>>217813532Tony yearns for a golden age that never existed. All his blustering about how people never ratted is bullshit when we realize Raymond was a rat this whole time and nobody found out. The strong silent type Tony wishes still existed, how Tony perceived Paulie growing up, was actually a pathetic loud mouth retard. The family values he thought degraded actually never existed in the mob when he realized his father would rather hang out with his goomar then his own family.
>>217813995>his own familyBecause Livia was such a sweetheart to be around?
Like scene one of episode one, where the tough mob guy has a panic attack and goes to therapy.Did people think they were watching a different show.
>>217807329Season 1 episode 1? It’s pretty clear it’s meant to be the opposite of the godfather.
>>217814095It’s totally understandable but he left his kids to be tormented by that woman which is why Tony and Janice are basically little Lydias
>>217814095he also stole his own son's dog, to give to his other family
>>217813705I think human nature is far more flexible than that and one could easily characterize our species by collaboration and conflict resolution rather than outright aggression.The emphasis on aggressivity and competition ultimately derives from the capitalist economic framework which has penetrated into our philosophy and designed a kind of ideal capitalist subject. Intensely competitive, consumes excessively, etc. This is a process that goes on in any sort of political and economic system as with the utopian 'new man', the fascist interpretation of the Nietzschean ubermensch, or the USSR's 'New Soviet man'. People take human nature as the foundation but it's frequently the byproduct so we should ask what members of our community we want to have and then work backwards from there.
>>217813705Terrible way of seeing things. You need to be able to hold your own, and act assertively where necessary.If you pride yourself on "fucking over other people", you make a lot of enemies, and that tends to not go so well for people.Why do they always forget the myth of the Golem? Anything you create has the possibility of turning around on you.
>>217814167Yeah. Leaving his kids with the monster is unforgivable.
>>217811538Yeah, the original point that was made makes sense but they definitely missed the memo that "performative male" is a new-ish buzzword for dudes that read Sylvia Plath in public or whatever. W*men roast them on social media for trying too hard. It's the opposite of the "pick me" girl phenomenon.
It's not really a secret that the mafia hasn't mattered much in decades. The yakuza don't really matter much anymore either.
>>217811538>>217814272There’s a dichotomy here, and I think “performative feminist” is what you’re actually talking about. “Performative” implies the word it’s modifying is only done to draw the attention of others. So a performative feminist would do things one would traditionally consider feminist (posting about women’s rights, Sylvia Plath, etc) while not genuinely believing or acting on the underlying ideals. Performative masculinity, in that sense, is when a man acts like he thinks men should act in performative way without abiding any underlying ideals (honor, strength, reliability, self responsibility, etc). Like the guys who post about how REAL MEN DRINK WHISKEY and buy that rifle coffee and use dude wipes while being huge backstabbing sniveling pussies IRL.
>>217807329>It’s essentially a black comedy about fat retarded wops larping as Prohibition era gangsters or Sicilians while living in 2000s suburbs.How fucking stupid do you have to be to think it's anything but that? Are you some kind of fat fuck who thinks he's a mob boss and identifies with the caracters in the show?
Bro, being "performative" means you're putting on a performance. It is applicable to a variety of types of humans.Why do people try so hard to boil everything down to a specific stereotype? >haha! I don't even have a dumb beard! I couldn't possibly be "the performative male(tm)"This is a low IQ thing, isn't it?
>>217814446you now realize Wojack memes are like baby books for very stupid people, who otherwise would have no blueprint to decipher other humans
>>217807329>When did you realiseS1 EP1
"I love you, Johnny-Cakes"
>>217814617the fact that they play that entire bit straight is perfect comedy.
>>217807329i laugh because the characters are funny
>>217810692>Robert De Niro, Bruce WillisThose guys are handsome though, they're just not pretty
>>217811682Your IQ is 20 points too high for this board. Come back 10 years ago.
>>217814443You’re trying way too hard with your samefagging.
>>217814429Yeah I know exactly what you're saying, but "performative male" memes have been showing up all over my normiegram the past few months and they settled on coming up with calling the "performative feminists" "performative males"
>>217814741You know who was handsome? George Raft.
>>217814983>zoomers learn a new word (just a normal word in the English language)>now it's a meme and "content"Why does the internet work like this now?Are they trying to reverse engineer an education that they never actually received?Hey bros, here's one. "Expedient". Make a Tiktok about the "expedient male". I believe in you.
>>217814632>played straight
>>217815063Here's a word ya stupid fuck, "soi"Now try to rhyme it with something that makes it means somethingI believe in ya kid
>>217815063unc crashing out
>>217815115gosh...
>>217815121gonna force you to watch Sesame Street so you can learn words and letters all day.
>>217815063That is a de facto word... you're displaying a lot of agency using that one
>>217811365Having a dick and balls makes you a male. But nothing you could do will make you a Man.
>>217807329I'll never understand the lefty belief that you're supposed to watch shows to hate the main characters. Nobody watches Sopranos to hate Tony.Nobody watches Breaking Bad to hate Waltuh.You don't have to think that they're good people, but you watch it because they're interesting.
>>217807329Pretty obvious it's a black comedy from episode 1
>>217815335No one hates Tony. doesn't mean the show isn't fundamentally about how he's a fraud, and all of these dudes are just ruining their own lives for small reward.
>>217815335>I'll never understand the lefty belief that you're supposed to watch shows to hate the main characters.Nobody says this and it's not a leftist thing. Sopranos characters are based retards. I root for them, but if they existed in real life, I'd avoid them as much as possible.
>>217815335go back to /pol/ you absolute retard
>>217815335>>217815404>>217816788>Nobody watches to hate empatstaresat is a mini eceleb on here who admits he watches it cause he hates italians and wants to laugh at the mafia and hate on everyone on the show for being le bad over any other reasonthere are definitely people who watch the sopranos to either hate on italians for whatever reason or hate on the mafia. Not saying that this excuses the mafia or anything but to watch something to hate on a group is clearly what some leftists like pat does
>>217815335The obsessive troons who try to shit on sopranos because they dislike its place in /tv/‘s board culture swarm to these threads and try to produce reasons to dislike the show. You’re seeing it with some of the replies to this post.
>>217813853Always found Imperioli strangely good-looking despite this. No homo, I just like his face.
>>217817241>admits he watches it cause he hates italiansbased
>>217810357>he won’t pay up, tone. What should we do?>lop his balls off>oh ok he said he’ll pay
>>217815335>you're supposed to watch shows to hate the main charactersIt depends of your own storytelling preferences, a mob killing someone for bussiness sure, whatever that's why I'm reading this, the same mob killing his best employee over a fucking HORSE, sure beat him up a little no one would complain, no need to kill him after getting into big conflict earlier to cover his ass. Fucking Tony, gabagoogol for brains.
>>217807329They tell you that from the very beginning, none of these guys have glamorous lifestyles or a superior intellect or skills, they're just thugs superposing a romantic idealization onto the violence that earns them a living.
>>217817865>a mob killing someone for bussiness
>>217807329It was when I realized that it’s a fictional show
>>217808448Why are you using 'bench presser' as a pejorative?
>>217814983>>217814429Performativity means that the language, ie the spoken word itself has an effect on reality rather than describing it. Iirc it's something from linguistics originally, like in saying ''I name this dog Bigballs'', the dog's name becomes Bigballs or in saying ''I renounce my vow of incelship'' the words enact the intended action. That meaning then made the typical new idea migration to other fields and was ''distorted'' in the sense that it now means different things in different contexts, which got it into antro-socio-psycho studies where it melded into critical theory, deconstructionism and other high-brow postmodernist jabbering to become a descriptor of human everyday behaviour as a performance act that is continuously renewed and repeated (among many other things), ie a human's everyday behaviour, even absent society, is a constant presentation of self to the external and internalised observer (if this stuff is interesting to you look up Bourdieu's habitus, a concept so vague and encompassing that it seems to easily apply to everything when you learn about it). Anyways that's all I remember from the Engineering for Humans class I had to take in my first year.I guess from there, like all things young college kids find out about in the internet age, it got turned into a meme and applied to all of this stuff. I always thought it a term meant to mock anyone who speaks out in the hope of making their speech performative (''Women deserve equal pay!'' but I'm hoping this keyphrase gets me laid) and then the meaning got stretched further to mean just anything that is not genuine, that reeks of deception and manipulation.Getting mad about the meaning of a word on the internet is stupid though, this isn't wiki edits.
>>217813838random acts of uncontrolled impulsive violence is Tony's only gift, he would have been an excellent enforcer.
>>217807329Someone worded it well on another thread, most of them aren't scary because they're chads but 1) they will go from 0 to 10 in terms of violence in a way civilized people don't and 2) even if you confront them and beat the piss out of one, the wop cowards then come back as a gang to either beat the piss out of you or not killing for having the temerity to stand up to them
>>217815335I don't find it to be a solely lefty belief, plenty of chuds and christfags are angry at the absence of white dudes in current media, claiming they can't cheer for someone who looks different (under veil of other excuses i guess). Humans are retarded, they get angry for stupid reasons.I don't agree with the protag's philosophy and lifestyle in most of the shows I watch, but I'm not dumb enough to let that get in the way of my enjoyment of what is ultimately, meaningless fiction for my entertainment. Watching the worst characters get their just deserts is a bonus although for some I ended up actually liking them and was sad they got popped
LOL most gangs in Italy and Sicily etc today are migrant arabs and africans lol basically just like everywhere else in Europe >tourist gets robbed/raped on a sun holiday>'oh yeah he was totally not some african criminal passed on by turks etc or 'local' looking kebab and didn't speak in some gibberish language
>>217811682>I'm happy being a man but I wish we had a better collective identitylmao two paradoxical qualities
I WONDER IF YOU CRY AT MIDNIGHT
>>217807329I thought Christopher would be the most sympathetic character in the show, being the youngest and most inexperienced as well as having the most insecurities. But no, I was cheering by the time he died
takes like 20 minutes to figure out it is at it's best when it's doing comedy
>>217810193this triggered the xittercels lol
>>217815335I started hating Tony after he took that barkeepers eye out for no reason.
>>217817241Well, Pat's spiteful Resetera tard. He would say something like that.The point of the show is it's a tragedy. Most of their characters in their own ways are likable. They just throw their lives away over stupid bullshit.
>>217815335>I'll never understand the lefty belief that you're supposed to watch shows to hate the main charactersNobody mentioned politics. It's got nothing to do with that. Do you think David Chase made Tony pick on the barman at the bing, push Grillo over the edge and all the other times he took liberties with people just because he could. They basically smack you around the head with the fact if you inconvenience him he'll ruin you out of childish spite.
>>217810722you’re schizophrenic
>>217817865You're missing the point, the horse was Tracy
>show designed to make people reflect on identity, culture, and the self makes /tv/ schiz the fuck outlike pottery
>>217821568
>>217807363>This young buck
>>217807329The funniest part is that real mobsters were shocked by how accurate it was, which is honestly appalling because this is easily the most negative depiction of the mafia in media, there really isn't a single good person in this show. Meadow is probably the only person in the show who you can make a case for as a good person.
>>217811365>I was born with a dick and have chromosomes you wish you didn't have.extra chromosomes because youre so special.
>>217813532I think he was referring to coming into the mob near the end of its life cycle. The way of life his dad and uncles lived is rapidly coming to a close. Police bullets didnt kill organized crime, giving everyone a camera phone did.Like the very first scene, Tony chasing a man down in front of a massive corporate building, running him down in his car and beating the shit out of him in front of everybody. Do you understand how insane that would be today? Tony Soprano would be in the same cell as Suge Knight. Kids would be making Tik Tok dances about it.
>>217821668The "A Don never wears shorts" line is apparently paraphrased from an anonymous phone call they got during filming. That's the only part that offended them.
>>217821668>Meadow is probably the only person in the show who you can make a case for as a good person.Dr. Melfi? I ask as someone who hates psychiatrists and think that entire industry is fucking evil, but that character didn’t do anything wrong besides have problems with alcohol. Finn also seemed alright.
This scene made me realize it's a dark comedy.
>>217821935>it took you to the third to last episode of the series to figure that out damn it must suck to be a total fucking retard
>>217821445No, it wasn't Ralph killed Pie o My to get the insurance money to pay the medical bills for his son. Tony didn't care enough about what Ralph did to Tracy at any point, at most he was mad that something like that could happen to Meadow.
>>217821668lol even AJ is a better person than Meadow
>>217807329>When did you realise this show was made to laugh at the pathetic nature of Italians?ftfy
>>217821974>>217821445what makes Tony flip out is when Ralph calls him a hypocrite. later in the Bing there is a scene where Tony is looking at the photos of various strippers clearly unable to even remember what Tracee looked like.
>>217822003AJ would be just like Tony if he wasn't a coddled retarded rich kid with 0 drive, that was obvious when he let everyone around him use his name to get into clubs and beat people up. Meadow just wanted a job where she helps people.>>217821878Yeah, I guess there's nothing to say she's a bad person.
>>217821878She's kind of corrupt/incompetent for discussing her patient with her circle of friends. Her reason for finally dropping Tony at the end of the series wasn't convincing either, but I blame that more on bad writing than her as a character.
I think trying to paint any of the characters as good guys or bad guys is kind of missing them point.They are all from certain angles likable and redeemable, and they are all from certain angles reprehensible.And there's a degree to which you can't blame them for being who they are, because they're just living in a world they were brought up in.
>>217807329Yeah that's the point. Look at big boy here cracking the code.
>>217821935>>217821974The duality of sopranos-posters: a retard who didn't get a show he sunk 70 hours into, and an autist who remembers the name of Tony's horse
>>217822080>Meadow just wanted a job where she helps people.Just say you're a virgin.
I don't think Ralph killed the horse. I think he was just pissed off that Tony was giving him shit about a horse, while his son was lying in hospital.
>>217807329It's shitting on Italian Americans as a whole. Many Saints of Newark confirmed this, David Chase is a piece of shit traitor
>>217822268>an autist who remembers the name of Tony's horsepie-oh-my was literally the title of the episode, it isn’t hard to remember
>>217822422Based Chase being redpilled about his own people
Did you guys see that the Trump administration recently (quoted) Tont on the Christopher Columbus meme? The zoomers are POL didnt seem to get the FUCKING 25 YEAR OLD JOKE but hopefully you real wise guys do.I loved Sopranos as a young man and I love it for the time capsule that it is for me and people around 40 who grew up in this transition period between the 80/90s into the modern era. It's so wierd to see.the actors from this and how old they are, or to realize how many of the Harry Potter legends are dead.Yall make fun of the fake machismo and toxic masculinity. Fair. But I think the modern ideals of what makes a good mail or something that comes from the environment that those crappy toxic males created over many centuries. Tony soprano is peak traditional toxic masculinity come out and it's what worked. I think a lot of times we have to take a step back and look at the big picture on this kind of thing, and think about what was realistically working in reality for real human beings for thousands and thousands and thousands of years before we were able to philosophically sit down and brainstorm up what our ideal image of hypothetical masculism might be.
>>217810193I thought performative males were just what zoomers called male feminists.
>>217823923>Yall
>>217823923>In this white House, Christopher Columbus is a herono way is this a real quote lmao
