underrated, overhated, should have been a trilogy of movies instead of one but will never be attempted again in our lifetimeeven as is it's a perfectly serviceable movie just with a lot of "oh my god slow down" moments
properly rated, not hated, just aggressively mediocre. is a carbon copy of avatar but three years after and instead of being overwhelmingly beautiful is just arizona with some aliens occasionally.
>>218005873It's more Dune than AvatarI'll die on this hill
>>218005806John Carter is such a lame name for a thing. I know it's based off of books "....of Mars", and they were trying to be "slick" or whatever, but dang. all interest was going to be carried by commercials and word of mouth. "John Carter" could be a movie about anything. lawyer, cop, janitor, athlete, politician... guy on Mars?they didn't even add a cool sub-title.Harry Potter and the Sorcerer StoneIndiana Jones and the Temple of DoomJohn Carter [cricket noises]it deserved to fail, based on the name alone(I can't remember anything about the movie, but I saw it a long time ago and I DO remember it was alright. shame about the stupid name, tough)
>>218006024idk man if they named the movie "Princess of Mars" would that increase ticket sales by even 5%?realistically what movie title would give them the 1000% ticket sales boost they needed to not be a box office bomb
>>218005806That was the plan before it ended up being dead on arrival.
>>218006057John Carter and the Martian War
>>218005920>a disillusioned soldier is transported to an alien planet where its princess needs his help in order to save her home
DIsney's The Lone Ranger is kino and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.
>>218006128that movie is two hours of boredom and then 15 minutes of "the lone ranger." Its the film equivalent of the "surf dracula" meme.
>>218006088that still sounds pretty fucking Dune ngl>>218006070yeah see I kinda understand that to a degree but likethe movie even as is just feels like 3 movies stuffed into oneyou don't sell your trilogy idea on the first movie being this constant whiplash of ideasI know trilogies are different and need all kinds of special things but you don't release the entire trilogy as an abridged single movie to test the waters for approval of a full trilogy, something else happened here
>>218006128honestlygenuinelyrespectfullyit's completely adequatenothing more
>>218006160paul is not disillusioned at all and chiani is not a princess, the fremen also don't need him.the one and only similarity between dune and john carter is they both take place on "desert" planets.
>>218006199look man I get itI'm not saying this is on the level of artistry as Frank Herbert's Dune, I'm not insulting Dune like thatIt's like... Best Choice Dune. I'm not saying it's a masterpiece, I just feel like it could have and should have done a lot better.I could overanalyze or abstract things out to make the comparison stronger and you know I could so let's just at least agree, together, to settle on "it's somewhere in between Avatar and Dune and if someone tried again leaning more heavily into the Dune aspects it would do quite well"
>>218006057If they called it that and made it about Dejah Thoris and had her in jewels the whole time idk if it would have sold but it'd be better
>>218006301You are complete wrong and your assertion is completely baseless, and you clearly know it.a princess of mars, while a seminal work of genre fiction, is really just "a confederate yankee in the princess of mars' court, with superpowers. Also everyone's nude or close to it."
>>218006301I 100% agree that John Carter was an influence on Dune and I know for a fact that Herbert read it. Dune's political theory was a reaction to Foundation, the setting is inspired by sword and sandal Mars, the irl inspirations were Sand County Almanac, the unfinished restoration ecology report and that Cossack book, and spice is oil and mexican mushrooms. Cope, I researched this shit
>>218006378Nope it has pseudo-anthropological themes and a weird colonial savior-subjugator relationship to the desert-adapted natives that are both things Herbert borrowed from. Dune doesn't have knife fights just because they're cool it's because that's what was popular in 1950s and 60s pulp planetary fantasy
>>218006444anon. dune is lawrence of arabia in space.
>>218006469Dune is a Star Wars remake. It came out a few years after, I think David Lynch was trying to put his own spin on the genre.
>>218006057>idk man if they named the movie "Princess of Mars" would that increase ticket sales by even 5%?at least 5%. maybe a lot moreJohn Carter and The Princess of Marsnow you know what you're in for. you didn't have to be told, or do homework before you chose to watch it.
>>218006378>>218006402>>218006444>>218006469>>218006484anonsthis is the kind of discussion I would die forstay passionate
>Virginia of MarsKek
>>218006484Anon. Dune was written in 1965. Star Wars was pulled directly from george lucas' ass in 1977, despite similarities to kurosawa and flash gordon. A princess of mars was written in 1912. Its influence upon genre fiction was undeniable, thus, required an author seeking to stand out to avoid any real similarity to it. Hence why Dune was based upon lawrence of arabia.
They could have at least put Lynn Collins in comic-accurate apparel [pic related]. Even better would have been book-accurate outfit which would see her swalking around naked except for body jewellery, of course, but the Untied Straits of Puritanica can't handle that at all.
>>218006491No one knew what they were in for when avatar premiered in 2009.
>>218006469Lawrence is certainly in the mix, Herbert discussed reading Seven Pillars somewhere, but I think its imprint is exaggerated by the fact that the Lawrence of Arabia movie cast a huge shadow on the production of the Lynch/de Laurentiis Dune movie's aesthetics
>>218006484aneurysm-inducing post, you're lucky I'm immune to weak trolls. Dune is directly the reason why we have Star Wars - and Aliens, and Blade Runner.
>>218006568>guy in unfamiliar environment aligns with the natives against an oppressive factionwow, impossible to come up with such a specific and complex scenario multiple times independently
>>218006575We need an artsy Euro director for it
>>218006606>Lawrence of Arabia movie cast a huge shadow on the production of the Lynch/de Laurentiis Dune movie's aestheticsBy what means you blithering retard, existing and being set in a desert? People have been comparing dune to lawrence of arabia since it was fucking written. The movie of lawrence of arabia came out in 1962, by the way.
>>218005806It's a fucking masterpiece compared to the slop yidsney puts out now
>>218006656No, I mean I read the production diaries of people involved and they said "We're trying to make a big cinematic epic like Lawrence of Arabia"
>>218006633Your reduction is on the level of "things happen," you realize.
>>218006688gee, could it have been because people have been comparing the book, dune, to lawrence of arabia, since it was written?
>>218006689And you ignore the fact basic myth plots exist which is a heavily researched subject, you dimwit.
>>218006704>basic myth plotshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._E._Lawrence
>>218006594"Avatar" is a thingif they named the movie "Jake Sully" is would have bombed worse than "John Carter"
>>218006555motherfucking "forjeenya" lives in my head rent free and always willwhen the whole fucking crowd starts chanting "FORJEENYA" I lose my shit every time
>>218006742What a desperate reach. The name, itself, says absolutely nothing about the movie, and if the movie had just been some name, it still would be the highest grossing movie of all time, due to how incredibly impressive it was.
>>218006703barely anybody read T E Lawrence before the movie
>>218006779Even if you weren't completely wrong, the movie was still released before Dune would be a twinkle in frank herbert's eye. and everyone knew dune was heavily inspired by lawrence's autobiography, which was a huge book.I don't know why you're doing this to yourself.
>>218006769would you go see a movie called"Alex Murphy"?hey, that new "Alex Murphy" movie is out! we gotta go see it!What? what's that even about?how about we call the movie"Robocop" instead?("Robocop" might not be the best example, since that one would have benefited from word-of-mouth advertising, as people talked about how awesome a movie "Alex Murphy" was.)
>>218006916anon. avatar was barely marketed and succeeded via word of mouth. just stop with this premise that john carter, a inexcusably weak avatar clone, flopped because of the name.
>>218006594Bait, but I'll take it because I'm desperate for human interaction.I was 18 when Avatar came out. I'll fully admit I can be a pretentious pseud but that doesn't somehow imvalidate the fact I was bored and frustrated the entire fucking time. The movie insulted me CONCEPTUALLY and I distinctly remember reading tons of fucking articles of people obsessing over the film and I've always dismissed it as midwit (at best) trash.Even without popular comparisons to Pocahontas at the time I was bored and tired watching it, it felt like the most generic tripe I had ever experienced in my life and I can't comprehend how anyone above the age of 13 when they first watched it could cite it as anything other than dismissable tripe.Avatar 2 is the only film I've ever physically walked out of in my entire life.I have not seen and will not see Avatar 3.I understand we are all on different steps in our journey of life and we are not all exposed to the same media but the idea avatar could be meaningful to anyone insults and upsets me. I feel like even a fucking 3 year old toddler could watch an avatar movie and say "that was tripe"
>>218006985anon. the movies have conclusively proven they aren't for the terminally online. for people who's main form of interaction is this mediated text-based nonsense from which you can derive whatever you want from every "interaction."
>>218006985this nibba got nauseous from 3-D glasses lmao
>>218007046online or otherwise it just feels derivative, any kid who's seen half a dozen Disney VHS singslong tapes would agree>>218007075honestly I love 3Dit's my favorite gimmickwish more films would do it more legitimately, I hate when I can tell the 3D is all VFX done in post3DS is my favorite consolei played VRChat in VR for 400 hoursinterested to hear your next deflectionhope it's something cool
>>218007212Anon. The point is you've programmed yourself, or been programmed, to think real human experiences are "derivative." That truth is cliche. Most likely because you've never had a real human experience.Thankfully you're a rarity.
>>218006947well, I wasn't trying to make a point that it failed simply -because- of the name, I was trying to say it would have done better, with a better name.I sometimes think "naming stuff" is an underappreciated part of the process
>>218007296so best name possible. Then people need to get past>its a flashback>all the time on earth>alien planet is just arizona>everyone's wearing too much clothing>main character has less charisma than a six legged pitbull
>>218005806John Carter was a conf*derate chud. Fuck him, fuck the author, and fuck disney for making this borderline AI slop.
If I was a cheeky billionaire, I'd acquire the rights and provide a lavish budget for a short film based on the story Cameron ripped off when he made Avatar.
>>218007247idk man.if avatar was the first movie i ever saw im sure i would be enrapturedbut i was a grown ass adult who had seen a ton of fucking movies
>>218007448isn't this basically how Cowboys and Aliens happened??
>>218007448but anon, its public domain. also wasn't the first example of a "going native" story.
>>218007487>also wasn't the first example of a "going native" story.I'm pretty sure it was the first example of "bitter paraplegic telepathically controls a big, blue feline lifeform on a hostile planet" though.
>>218007459Well, I'm older than you, and have doubtless seen more movies, and I'm impressed by more than novelty.
>>218007552>and I'm impressed by more than noveltylike what dudewhich character do you relate to the mostwhat's your favorite quotewhich plot points resonates the most with you and your life experiencehow many books have you read, how many films have you seen, and does your father love you?
It wasn't Frazetta enough for the pulp purists, it wasn't Pixar enough for the family audience, it just ended up being nothing.It's also unfortunate that it was made during the period where everyone was still mistakenly hoping that Taylor Kitsch would produce 1/10th the charisma he had in Friday Night Lights in any other role.
>>218007653Taylor has that I got raped and im trying to pretend i didnt vibe
>>218006024>>218006057>>218006074>>218007296It's funny that the studio was literally afraid of the word "Mars" because Mars Needs Moms flopped.But honestly, it didn't even need to be set on Mars to begin with. In the 100+ years since the books came out we've demystified Mars to an extent that setting it there seems kind of silly. Especially the whole jumping 200 feet in the air thing.
>>218007653>not X enough for Y, not Y enough for Xthis kills so many thingsnot everything can be for everyoneWHEN WILL THEY LEARN
The books were influential but let’s not pretend they’ve aged particularly well.
>>218006575The book is so incel coded lol.
>>218007891Everything up to Master Mind of Mars holds up pretty well. After that, not so much. I think that's the point in his career where he started to have some or all of his stuff ghost written by proteges.
>>218007595You've never been in love. That isn't a question.
>>218007960First isekai really (unless you count Twain's ACYIKAC). Carter is a civil war veteran who gets portaled to Barsoom and finds himself in the center of ongoing plots which his skills can find an answer to. Wish fulfilment from the days when men were capable of doing things IRL.Modern isekai is more about fat incel losers getting sent to a skiffy/fantasy world and somehow becoming a power there despite being basically useless.Wish fulfilment for fat NEET arsewipes who can't do shit, except dream.
>>218007717>because Mars Needs Moms flopped.and every other movie referencing mars until the martian
>>218006575>Why can’t everyone just be naked!?Because then it’s an R-rated movie and good luck making a sci-fi movie with that rating without it bombing at the box office due to its requirement of tons of CGI
It was great, i enjoyed the movie and dejah thoris actor was very pretty
>>218008282well they put her in leather granny panties most of the movie and it still flopped
>>218007448>the story Cameron ripped off when he made Avatarthis one too
>>218006128Did he really eat people?
>>218006575
>>218008084>gets portaled to Barsooma portal would actually make sense, what actually happens is that he dies and appears on mars in a new body because mars is the god of war and he's got real FIGHTIN MAN SPIRITthen he swaps bodies between his earth body and mars body whenever he wants to travel between planets, leaving the body that he is not currently inhabiting as a dead huskits retarded
>>218005873Avatar is shit
>>218007960Is that codeword for "it caters to normal stright males"?
>>218006985100% agree1 bored the shit out of me. characters, story, concept...didn't come back for the othersonly modern low IQ slopeaters can like it. Would have bombed if made just 20 years earlier
>>218008052you you have no argument and are just emotional
needed more woola
>>218005920I agree with thisMostly because the franchise is so grossly overrated of course the film sucks
>>218006575The book was written by an American
>>218012510That kind of Americans would hate tf out of modern Americans if they were still alive
>>218010275The argument is avatar isn't something that can be explained. You either get it or you don't. the movies are raw emotion. They can't be "meme'd," or explained. You either have a soul or you don't.
>>218005806I have been thinking "John Carter, Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers all need big budget reboot movies to really bring in a new era of epic sci-fi movies", but then I think of how woke and changed they would all be, and it makes me sad.
>>218005873>a carbon copy of avatardude the John Carter novels predate Avatar for almost a full centurythe big problem with this franchise is also its great virtue; it's the first true space opera adventure product, and as such, most other space opera stories take a lot from itI took my younger cousin and nephew to the cinema to watch it without much expectations from my part and I think it's really fucking good for a Disney adventure movieIn my opinion a live action John Carter cannot work anymore precisely because of its natural as a seminal sci fi work. An animated version could work, probably
>>218014157>buzzwordslmao cope.You can't explain it because you don't have any argument
>>218014322It’s adorable how people think people today would give a shit about dated sci-fi IPs that are a century old already
>>218014627Implying modern sci fi isn't a dead landscape and there is still stuff like that around
>>218009160booba
>>218006057Mars Wars
>First Book: A Princess of Mars (originally serialized as Under the Moons of Mars in 1912, published as a novel in 1917). Under the Moons of Mars works just fine. Or simply Barsoom. Both of those were better options.
>>218005806to be fair it was clearly butchered in editing
