What's better? The Patriot or The Gladiator?
>>218419530The Patriot isn't even a good movie.
>>218419544...
>>218419530I think some of my hottest takes are that Gladiator is overrated and that The Patriot is the closest we have ever gotten to an American Kurosawa film and is criminally misunderstood by critics, especially the unrated version which is incredible.
>>218419530The Gladiator. I've seen The Patriot only once, but I recall it being unintentionally hilarious.
The Patriot is embarrassing in its efforts to make the Revolutionary War seem like it was also the black man's war, and that they were "all in it together" against a common enemy. This gives us a very long and very boring segment where the patriots take refuge in an Afro-American village and form earnest bonds with the community. And apart from one man who owns a slave, none of the patriots ever says anything racist. Oh yes, it's a big happy-clappy circle of blacks and whites joining hands and living as equals. The film portrays the American of the 18th century as LESS racist than the America of today.
Gladiator.
how about they're both pretty good, crazy I know.
>>218419544How's the weather over there Nigel?
>>218419601>The Patriot is embarrassing in its efforts to make the Revolutionary War seem like it was also the black man's war, and that they were "all in it together" against a common enemyYou realize that there are Black loyalists and redcoats in this film too, right? You also know that this is decades before the antebellum era birthed the contemporary American racial dynamics and that free Blacks in the Colonial and immediate postcolonial period had similar status to Whites for the most part? Hell the first guy to die in the Boston Massacre was a Black guy.>a very long and very boring segment where the patriots take refuge in an Afro-American village and form earnest bonds with the communityThey're not just Black Americans, they're Gullah who are a very specific Black American group that live on the coasts of South Carolina and Georgia. It's actually one of the most interesting aspects of the film because that's a very influential and old Black population that's never mentioned almost anywhere else in popular culture and arts in the U.S; even ignoring the fact that it's an important part of the film that serves a major purpose in the plot.
>>218419530The Patriot is total fucking shit>very historically inaccurate>Mel Gibson is a slave owner, but not really because he's such a good guy>his black "workers" enjoy being servants and think Mel Gibson is such an amazing master>rebels are portrayed as noble>British are portrayed as laughably evil>atrocities committed by rebels historically are attributed to the British>natives are completely absent, even though they're important to the story and setting>the acting is noticeably bad>Academy Award-winner Heath Ledger is given scraps and can't turn it into anything decent >forgettable score>boring action scenes>way too long for the miniscule amount of storyit's a genuinely irredeemable film
Am I being baited or are there a lot of people that genuinely hate The Patriot all of a sudden, last I checked it was one of this board's favorite movies
>>218419709only meatheaded American dads like itit's a shit movie
>>218419709ive always heard people whining about the similar stuff in this thread but i love it.
>>218419718it's the sort of movie where they tried to recreate the magic of David Lean's epics for an American audience, except without any of the talent to even recognise that what they made was rubbish
>>218419530Would any of these two stand a chance to the gladiator ?
>>218419530clearly the patriot is better just based on no one else talking about gladiator, theres your answer
>>218419730>they tried to recreate the magic of David Lean's epics for an American audienceIt's clearly not supposed to be a David Lean-influenced film because it deliberately sidelines actual historical figures and history to instead tell an sweeping, allegorical story about the birth of the American identity. If you understand it instead as a Kurosawa film (particularly Ran) everything will click into place and you'll fall in love with it the way I did.Picrel is what an American David Lean-style movie is, which is also kino.
For me it’s The Patriot (1998)
>>218419883i remember me and my mom rented a VHS of this when we wanted the gibson one. we didnt even finish watching it kek
>>218419709Redditfags like >>218419695are triggered by anything that portrays slavery
>>218419530Gladiator was one of the worst theater experiences Ive had. (traffic being the absolute worst) Patriot was fun with how corny it was. I'd rather rewatch patriot with some friends than the snoozefest that was gladiator.
>>218419910But enough about the time you had sex with your mother on the couch while The Patriot (1998) staring Steven Segal played in the background.
>>218419792David Lean is more than Lawrence, watch some of his other epics and you'll understandBridge on the River Kwai is especially relevant>>218419928I'm pro slaveryMel Gibson is appealing to the "I can't be racist because I have a black friend" crowd
>>218420360>David Lean is more than LawrenceNever said he wasn't>Bridge on the River Kwai is especially relevantI'm a /film/ user who has watched plenty of Lean and it's not at all a good comp because much like Lawrence it's an apples to oranges comparison to The Patriot. The Patriot is just not an epic in the Lean mold and is far more in the mold of Kurosawa down to the highly exaggerated protagonists and antagonists as well as the use of color and big sets.>"I can't be racist because I have a black friend" crowdI assume you're British given you take offense to the depiction of the English here (which is fair, they're grossly exaggerated to say the very least), but that's not really what the film is trying to say even with the cringey subplot surrounding the slave. It has far more to do with the film being an allegory for America's emerging identity amidst the war than to be taken literally, down to how the Blacks hold Gibson's character in high regard given he embodies the "ethical master" in the vein of the founding fathers.
>>218419544The Gladiator isn't even a movie
>>218419632>noooo don't dare criticize my heckin ahistorical slop starring an aussie retard
>>218420456250 years this July.
>>218420434>an allegory for America's emerging identityyou can't make a film about America's emerging identity when you're literally making things upit's pure jingoistic propagandain history, the church burning was done by the rebels, not the Britishthe blacks having respect for Mel Gibson's character is so self-aggrandising that it's laughable>watched plenty of Lean and it's not at all a good compwhy not? Nicholson abuses the British spirit into aiding the enemy, because clinging to an identity is all the prisoners haveidentity is very important to both films, but is taken seriously by Lean, and not seriously at all by Emmerich, who is German and not AmericanThe Patriot is an embarrassing film to have as "America's Modern Epic" and it definitely can't replace Gone With the Wind or Birth of a Nation
>>218419530Neither are great movies but The Gladiator is a pretty fun vibes movie.
>>218419530Wheat: The Movie is genuinely one of the shittiest movies I've ever seen.
Harakiri
>>218419574>The Patriot is the closest we have ever gotten to an American Kurosawa filmHot take is code for retarded faggot nonsense?
>>218419530Russel crow or Mel GibsonJoaquim Phoenix or Heath LedgerI'll go with the Patriot even if it is dumb, nicer gore porn
the patriot may not be that great of a movie, but you really got to hand it to jason isaacs. damn good actor
>>218419530Gladiator is a better technical movie but Patriot is more fun to watch.
>>218419709It's jeets all butthurt and embarrassed that we had a kino war to gain our independence from Britain whereas they had gay ass Gandhi and his non violent protests. Now they don't even like him and blame him for the split that formed Pakistan and Bangladesh.
>>218420950>the church burning was done by the rebels, not the BritishNobody did the church burning irl retard, that's supposed to be an allegory for how the British government supressed religious liberties compared to the colonies while also exaggerating how evil Tavington is. Yes it's overdone and ridiculous, but that's the point.>the blacks having respect for Mel Gibson's character is so self-aggrandising that it's laughableAgain retard, that's because it fits into the idea of the "ethical slavemaster" archetype that all of the founding Fathers were associated with. You're obviously an assmad Brit still malding about us becoming independent so you're clearly not interested in our history or narratives and mythology surrounding our founding.>it definitely can't replace Gone With the Wind or Birth of a NationI never said or implied that it did retard. All I'm saying is that it's the closest thing we have to an epic story about the founding of the U.S while both of those movies while excellent were ultimately narratives of whiny wankfests waving the bloody shirt about the Civil War.
>>218425067>that's supposed to be an allegory for how the British government supressed religious liberties compared to the colonieslmao no it isnt. its solely for the "unthinkable, brutal savagery" of tavington. that said, the other guy is indeed retarded, making stuff up, and missing the point.
The gladiator is a snorefest.The Patriot, now THAT is a good movie.
>>218425594>its solely for the "unthinkable, brutal savagery" of tavingtonThere's that too.Again, people need to stop taking the film literally and throw out the idea that it's supposed to be historically accurate film. It's a work of historical, allegorical fiction no different than how Kagemusha or Ran are historical fiction.
>>218419734The get out mirrored edit had me laughing for 10 straight minutes. I had it saved but lost it
>>218419544It's Braveheart in America and is awesome
>>218419601>And apart from one man who owns a slave, none of the patriots ever says anything racistWasn't the Andy Richter patriot a racist, but befriends the black guy in the final battle?
>>218419530Gladiator is the better movie. Patriot is incredibly comfy. Real places and real sets. Almost nothing is CG. It's also possibly the most orange and teal-movie ever made.
>>218419709>people that genuinely hate The PatriotBongs aren't people.
>>218425067>that's supposed to be an allegory for how the British government supressed religious liberties compared to the coloniesWhy not communicate that idea straightforwardly instead of through a cryptic allegory? An allegory so cryptic as to be deceitful?>that's because it fits into the idea of the "ethical slavemaster" archetype that all of the founding Fathers were associated withIs this what the average burgerbeast thought when he watched The Patriot in the cinema back in 2000? I doubt it.
>>218420905Will the US make it to 251?Seems less and less likely by the day.
>>218426445>Why not communicate that idea straightforwardly instead of through a cryptic allegory? Because the filmmakers assume that the audience is smart enough to know that the film isn't supposed to be an actual work of history and that Benjamin Martin isn't a real person, which is always a poor bet given Americans are a particularly retarded audience especially when it comes to history, so they either see it as comically inaccurate or think it's what actually happened. Tavington's character himself is based on Tarleton who was irl an infamous British commander in the colonies that did things similar to the character in the film minus the church burning scene. Hell, that scene itself is ripped from an atrocity committed by the SS in France in 1944, so it's clearly trying to draw a parallel between the occupation of France being at the whims of SS commanders and the British being in a similar position in the U.S colonies.>Is this what the average burgerbeast thought when he watched The Patriot in the cinema back in 2000Yes, actually.https://web.archive.org/web/20090205021141/http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment062600b.htmlhttps://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-swamp-fox-157330429/
>>218419695There are plenty of records from black people who didn't hate their lives under slavery.
The Patriot is not a good movie. Gladiator is a great movie.
>>218419530Gladiator. The Patriot is hilarious though
>>218426172It wasn't Andy Richter it was the Irish vampire dude from Blade.
>>218419530Gladiator is better, but Spartacus is even better then that is>>218419544Patriot is decent mainly because theres hardly any movies about the american revolution (for some reason)
>>218426949>for some reasonThey don't want anyone getting any ideas
>>218419544its got some good action scenes, cant deny that
>>218419792wind and the lion rocks
>>218419530Gladiator for the intro scene alone. They really burned that forest. Patriot is great tho, really like Mel chopping away at redcoat in the beginning of the movie. You can feel the anger/sadness.
>>218427184https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qxIBn9owdothis scene is kino, and Im tired of pretending its not
>>218427301
>>218419530the answer is Rob Roy
>>218419530What's better, an apple (good) or a diamond (also good)?
Gladiator is betterThe Patriot is good but gets too silly at times
