I've been watching Mad Men after having done a rewatch of The Sopranos and it's kind of funny and interesting when you view it through the lense of being a "prequel" to The Sopranos in the sense that Don Draper represents, on the surface level at least, the ideal perfect "strong silent type" that Tony idolises (but never lives up to), because Don:>lived in the 60s>is stoic and reserved>is masculine>is confident>is a ladies man>has a submissive tradwife>is respected by everyone>has a generally cool demeanor>despises therapy and self-pity>has traditional valuesAnd yet one of the points of Mad Men is showing that deep down Don is a lot weaker and more insecure and troubled than would appear on the surface, he is just WAY better at hiding it than Tony.Now, personally speaking, I think Don definitely is all of these things to some extent and it isn't a larp unlike with Tony. And Don is way more likeable and genuinely cool. But considering how many thematic and stylistic similarities are shared between the two shows (including some writers), I think it's fair to make the comparison.What do you think of this?
>>218668326>What do you think of this?Mad Men is annoying at times when it feels the need to hit you over the head with >LE PAST CULTURE WAS LE BAD
>>218668326David Chase wrote the pilot. Don is pretty much Tony with less pronounced panic attacks. He’s a hack. Hope that helps.
>>218668514Really only season 1 primarily does that, the following seasons attitudes become almost anachronistic with how modern every major character’s sensibilities and tolerances are.
>>218668514Mad Men is nowhere near as preachy as it could have been.And you have to remember that this was the decade of pretty monumental changes in society and culture so of course it's going to come off as preachy at times because people at the time in real life were preachy about this shit.
>>218668560Oh damn really? That's kind of disappointing.I'm midway through season 1 and one thing I fucking love about the show is how cold and detached it is regarding social values and attitudes, like it shows things honestly and bluntly without making comment, and is very realistic.Kinda lame it just projects modern attitudes to where they don't belong. If that's the case I might not finish the series.
>audible groan
>>218668326>Don Draper>stoicHe's an alcoholic with childhood trauma that ruins his own life and takes out his anger on his employees and family when things don't go his way. He's a very reactive character
>>218668606To be fair it only started grating on me after rewatching it a few times. Most of the time you’re just too caught up in the plot to notice
>>218668326>And yet one of the points of Mad Men is showing that deep down Don is a lot weaker and more insecure and troubled than would appear on the surface, he is just WAY better at hiding it than Tony.There's no inconsistency or contradiction here, it's not like Tony thought that men like Draper, or his father and uncle, or Gary Cooper never had problems and moments of weakness, but that what they had and he lacked was the capacity to go about life without directly encumbering others with their mental issues. Don would get shitfaced and fuck a teacher then go back to work the next day, while Tony would come to dinner in a bathrobe and then go cry to a shrink. Of course though, less was required of Don with regards to raising your children. That's what the money is for. Still, even in Mad Men there are some comparisons made between generations, whoever's fought in the first rather than second World War etc, things like that. The difference is that Don also had the opportunity to be there when the industry was booming. It's good to be in something from the ground floor
>>218668698This is a good point, especially re Tony "coming to dinner in a bathrobe". Like even at the most basic surface-level Tony was unwilluing or unable to behave in an even slightly respectable manner and yet then thought he still had the right to criticise others. It's just so unbearably obnoxious. At least Don actually played the part and pulled his weight and "acted like a man" before he lost his shit occasionally (not even close to as frequently or badly as Tony).
>>218668514Yeah. I tried to give it a watch recently since it's always brought up. The marketing and discussions around this show make it seem like a fun show. But it turned out to be a rom dramedy that was hamfisted with its constant "DID YOU KNOW WOMEN HAD IT HARD BACK THEN??". Dropped after 2 episodesFled under "shit tier" The opinions of any anon who likes this show are automatically discarded without being read
>>218670484I didn't get that impression at all, especially not in the first few episodesIt shows how society was back then, no more and no less. It is remarkably unpreachy compared to practically every other mainstream show set in past eras.Even me, as a solidly conservative and "trad" guy, really enjoy the show and have no problem watching it. I wouldn't even show it my more liberal girlfriend because I know she'd just seethe about how poorly the situation of women is depicted in it. But I love it. It's a comfort show for me. I think most of the men in it are unironically cool, especially Don and Roger.
>>218670348Well yeah. Tony outright says, as I remember, that Gary Cooper had is issues but he could just shut the fuck up about it. What's explored here, especially in the first season, was a meta type of sadness caused by the state of being sad itself, the regularness of life and such. Tony lived in a world where he perceived he was encouraged to indulge in his misery, while Don was not often really put in situations where he'd have to be made to feel regret about his wrongdoings.I really appreciate the family dynamics as well, where Don could fuck off for a day and get shitfaced and ruin a birthday party and then solving the issue by returning with a dog, where Tony had to suffer Meadow's and AJ's mood swings and retarded adolescent behavior, but still feeling compelled to understand and relate to them and treat them with compassion and a more direct and involved form of love
>>218673574Yes that's a good point, the cultural setting they live in definitely tolerates different behaviours which "lets them get away with it" or not. Like yeah Don could just do whatever he wanted so long as he provided the minimum for his family with financial support, whereas the era Tony lived in expected active emotional involvement which he both didn't want or know how to give.I think both men would do poorly in each others' eras though. Don was utterly unwilling to engage even slightly with introspective reflection and had no respect whatsoever for women and weaker people and didn't view it as even slightly necessary to try to appeal to them, whereas Tony, while he admired the qualities of Don and his era, just didn't have the charm and manners and etiquette to pull it off. In Mad Men, you could be a real douchebag asshole but you had to at least come off as cool and respectable. Tony couldn't even do that.
