One of the greatest films to come out of America. It's not really about capitalism, or masculinity, or mental illness, but self-actualisation. What if an idealised version of yourself (or what you imagine that to be) could drag you through the tribulations needed to understand what you're missing, and just as importantly, what you are not? It's an important mental exercise. You could point to Bergman's Persona or Altman's 3 Women as more cinephilic examples of a similar concept but they crucially are not about men. Male inadequacy is a specific, universal malady that few other films dissect. It's likely unintentional, Palahniuk wrote down his homosexual fantasies and Fincher adapted them as a black comedy in his usual diligent fashion. Neither men have answers to the questions Fight Club poses but that doesn't matter, that it illustrates a problem and takes it to it's logical extreme is all the film needs to do.
>>218940073Highly Gnostic film
>>218940073>What if an idealised version of yourself (or what you imagine that to be) could drag you through the tribulations needed to understand what you're missing, and just as importantly, what you are not?Any fucking day he wants to show up, I'll be ready.
>>218940236Like most Hollywood movies
>>218940267Can confirm
>>218940073Critics love to boil everything down to one easily digestible message, and Fight Club’s is “toxic masculinity bad.” It also gets lumped into the “you’re missing the point by idolizing them” group. But while Tyler represents an extreme position, he isn’t entirely good or bad. The narrator’s life is miserable and empty in the beginning, and he needs Tyler to help him find agency. Tyler is alluring because he does have some good points. Ultimately, he is too extreme, and just because mindless consumerism is toxic, that doesn’t mean anarchy is the answer. One must find balance. And yes, it’s a great film.
>>218940899Palahniuk is pretty chuddy, he probably endorses some "extremism."
>>218942112extremism is a solution to finding balance. Only truly intelligent people can find balance without having to make mistakes and learn without personal experience.
>>218942346>extremism is a solution to finding balance.Based.It's similar to situations with overweight, semi-alcoholic, or dopamine-fried (porn, media, etc.) people adopt an "extreme" diet, zero-alcohol, or no-electronics stance. Midwits cry "everything in moderation", but don't seem to realize that people in these positions are so far off-balance than extremism IS the solution to moderation and balance.
>>218940899>he is too extremeThe joke is he wasn’t. He was responding to the hopeless desperation of the people attracted to his message and escalating to give them the purpose that modern reality robbed them of. He found people with maybe one barrier to their self actualization and deleted that barrier with the threat of immediate death. project mayhem was the people who had no dreams at all. It’s a cautionary tale if anything. People with no hope for the future will actively destroy the present.
>>218946613>The joke is he wasn’t [too extreme]kidnaps and threatens police chiefconducts serious vandalism and property damagethreatens convenience store clerk, and commits identity theftaccepts stolen car and totals itmutilates Jared Leto's face and multiple people's handsgets Meat Loaf killed and buries him in the backyardattempts to detonate building>not extreme
>>218940073Maybe they don't hate us after all.We should make them hate us even more.
>>218948206what does that even mean?
>>218949693I didn't say you could reply to me, eurotrash.
>>218948119Maybe read the entire post.
>>218949751I reply to Amerimutts without consent
>>218950217On a website created by an American with an American majority userbase that is subject to American law in a thread about an American movie with an American director, starring Americans.
>>218950154I did. The part about it being "a cautionary tale" or hopeless people "destroying the present" doesn't negate or explain away the hilarity of claiming that Tyler's actions "weren't too extreme".It really doesn't matter why he did those things or what the consequences are: kidnapping, demolition, theft, assault, conspiracy, etc. are pretty fucking extreme actions.
>>218950285I coopt what I want, when I want, from whomever I want. You can hide your individual inferiority behind vague collectivist nationalistic pride. But you can't hide from the fact that: the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must
>>218940899Fight Club's message is: men would rather blow up buildings and destroy each other in homoerotic rage than to just fucking go to therapy.And no, Jack faking illness to go to the various group sessions doesn't count.
>>218950505Peasant.
>>218950588>prozac nation has entered the chat
>>218950783Therapy doesn't automatically = big pharma meds. Plus, do you really think that fucker shouldn't have been medicated?
>>218950948That and or circular bullshit which just deolves into being a paid friend or confidant who has no answers to give but tons of manipulative ideas to keep them coming back.
>>218940073>Reddit Club
>>218951092Its over. No one cares about botland anymore.
>>218951089You didn't answer the question. Because you know I'm right.
>>218950948Dude was an insurence adjusterdissosiative identity disorder is a fake disorderthe movie was basically anti establishment and if you know about psychology surely you're familiar with rd laing and thomas sasz
>>218942112Trans women aren't real women I stand with Charley P
>>218951629>Dude was an insurence adjusterso?>dissosiative identity disorder is a fake disordereven if that's true, the dude is clearly nuts.
>>218951796Youre missing the last part. if the mc just ended up going to therapy the movie would be overvand the themes throughout the book would mean exactly shit. need i remind you the first tactic the system uses to quell rebellion is to call its instigators insane. the dude was obviously rebelling against the system. going to therapy is something women do, just look at all those therapy movies during the same time the mcs were either women like girl interrupted or they were kids still in high school or college not in theur professional careers. even sopranos treated therapy as some kind of farce rather than some legit tool of empowerment that all the new age woke slop portray it as.
>>218950372Okay, so you can’t map a concept. Tyler starts with the narrator, forms the fight clubs, does the death threats, and then forms project mayhem. The narrator and the death threats do not end up in project mayhem. He escalates in response to the desperation he sees. The desperation is what’s extreme, not tyler’s actions.
>>218940073Homosexual filmbro trash. Jordan Peterson on celluloid.
>>218953280>The desperation is what’s extreme, not tyler’s actions.Okay, just establishing you don't think it's extreme to detonate skyscrapers. lol
>>218952498>going to therapy is something women doSomething tells me you don't have any media literacy for this flick. Jack was moderately happy in his group therapy until Marla showed up.>first tactic the system uses to quell rebellion is to call its instigators insaneTrue, but even now and then they might be right.
>>218942112Its ironic he's a homo, remindes me of Tom Ford and Peter Theil where they're gay but refuse to conform to typical liberal shit.
i really like this movie. i don't agree with the message but it's just a good movie
>>218953460Im am all about crazy niggas blowing up credit card buildings and shooting hedge fund executives
>>218940073Nice post for mentioning 3 Women
>>218953460Jack was going to those things becuase of his addiction to shadenfreude, see his career as an insurence adjuster. he got mad at marla becuase she was doing the same thing and pretty much being a mirror for him>>218953460
The color palette is ugly.
>>218954020so? it's therapeutic and not blowing shit up.>>218953936
it's a fun movie like The Matrixit attracted retards like The Matrixretards wrote retarded articles about why it was popular like The Matrix
>>218940073Critics of capitalism love their loans and credit card bills, swear by living on credit and health insurance plans that make the corporate middle men rich. Why would they buy corporate products yet criticize capitalism, unless they are missing the lint as corporate slaves apologizing for corporatism? It's not capitalism itself raping them, it's the rise of giant corporations who erase the individual human and collude with governments to get favoritism.
>>218954181*the point
>>218953831What’s “the message” to you?
>>218940263>if only you realized how much potential you have
>>218954056Stupid>>218954138Stupider
>>218950588Because the actual answer to a society full of problems is to rebuild it without the problems, not to learn coping mechanisms to pretend the problems aren't there. I've been building a retaining wall and done things wrong at pretty much every turn, having to tear it down and restart the step time and time and time again. Why? Because if I didn't the wall would collapse in a few years. I could just plow ahead and use bandaid solutions, but it wouldn't help the thing last. Get it?
>>218954117Therapy isnt as cathartic as blowing shit uppeople want to see the white house blow upthey want to see parliment blow upthe problem with therapy and social work and even cop work imho is that they are all bound by law. i think greater ideals like self acrualization lie outside of the law and society.
>>218940899Tyler isn't even really an anarchist. He makes himself the absolute ruler of a bunch of submissive guys who dress in identical uniforms.
>>218951288Therapy is for fucking pussies. I don't want to talk about my emotions, i want solutions to society's problems. The problems are the source of my resentment and rage. If the societal problems went away, my rage would subside. The stress of having to toil endlessly like we're in a fucking video game is driving EVERYONE crazy. No purpose, everything is retarded as fuck, culture is dead, ubiquitous zealotry of all flavors, and everybody hates and distrusts each other.Fuck you. You're a pussy. Go talk to some snobby academic about your faggy feelings for 200 a pop, retard.
>>218954504>I've been building a retaining wall and done things wrong at pretty much every turnthis is the "people" we argue withjesus christ
>>218955151>cantileverd
It's by far the greatest film of all time, despite its own writer and director not understanding it. Betas and roasties will cope, but deep down you know it's true.
>>218955151I can’t describe them as anything other than cattle at this point, better to just nignore them
>>218954944>>218954681>insecure "men" who can't process or healthily manage their emotions and presumably don't have sex or touch grass want to solve society's problems and blow shit uplol, lmao even.I guess I should be careful making you mad hahaha fr fr no cap ong zig mite
>>218954944
>>218940263What if I told you you are the leader you've been waiting on. When you wake up tomorrow morning, move with that purpose in mind and go towards it.
>>218955521What if I told you you're gay LOL
>>218953389The point is even the narrator doesn't realize how extreme his desperation is, or how shared it is. He is The Atomized Man. Everything tyler does is in response to the extremities of the desperation of not only the narrator, but the people he finds.
>>218955521
I used to be surprised by how many people don't realize the fight club/Project Mayhem is a cult but then I just accepted the fact that most people are retarded.
>>218955374Im glad youre living youre best life bro.congrats. I mean it.
>>218955598The Narrator/Tyler wants to destroy civilization because he is motivated by nihilism, dingus.
>>218955521to be fair, fight club was more prescient in what we need as an organization than it realized. any "leader" who identifies himself will be MK-ULTRA'd (or just executed) to make their followers fall into disarray. we can't have names, just goals. and its hard to have unified goals when they'll be in literally every space feeding us stupid goals.
>Book: Target is the Museum of Natural History (an entirely different symbol that underscores just what nihilism is aiming at). Marla saves The Narrator by making him conscious of himself (i.e. traditional archetypal role for a female love interest). The bombs fail to go off (it's an anti-climax). The Narrator tries to kill himself but fails and ends up in the psych ward. In the end, he's lost his mind and he sees what he did as an achievement; Project Mayhem still lives (i.e. the violent impulse is eternal and it's part of a forever war).>Movie: The target is credit card companies (i.e. instead of the true nature of nihilism we get a mission the audience sympathizes with and cheers on). The Narrator goes on a heroic rescue mission to save the damsel in distress. He sacrifices himself by shooting himself in the head to kill Durden and save Marla. He embraces her, starts making out with her (even though he just shot himself in the mouth, kek), The Pixies blare, and the bombs go off in the background. There are no consequences and all irony is lost.P.S. Most retards miss the use of irony in the story as well, for example:>the violence of the Fight Club is ironic: the characters destroy their bodies in an attempt to reclaim them>they don't catch that the Fight Club develops into a cult (i.e. Project Mayhem) and its adherents merely sublimated their personal emptiness/lack of agency into a destructive nihilism that's the same thing (only reactionary)Basically, the story is about cultural malaise from a masculine perspective (represented by consumerism and illusory social connections that result in the destruction of the personal identity of the individual and, on a larger scale, a social stratification devoid of meaning or real value) and the turn to nihilism that results from it. The differences between the endings of the book/film change the moral and, because of this, the movie ends up becoming what it was criticizing.
>>218955666how womanly of you, anon
>>218955521Its funny becuase i willingly spend my entire day in bed hoping society does the same.
>>218955374You're an institutionalized NPC cuck. Great job on "winning" the argument with passive aggressive sass. I have a wife and kids, and society keeps getting more and more grim as each year passes. The next generation will NEVER see financial or economic prosperity. You don't see a problem with that? With an estimated 60-80% of the population living paycheck to paycheck? Everything's fine. The Epstein files come out and there's definitive evidence of elites on zoom calls watching torture vids they made for each other. And everything's fine? And I'm the problem? I'M THE PROBLEM?I need to be "medicated" to "calm down" and "explore my emotions"? I'm the problem? You're not woke, you're fucking ASLEEP. Woke? More like COMA.
>>218955488>I loved that damn bitch. She knew I had soft feelings toward her and she intentionally used these to lead me on and then she calculatedly humiliated me.>I was so upset by this that for the next 2 nights I was unable to sleep more than 4 hours a night, and, what was worse, I was exhausted by nervous tension. That date was Sunday. Monday I did nothing about it because I was exhausted and had had no time to think things over. But after work I did think things over; I had an overwhelming need for revenge and I decided to get it by persistently needling and insulting her at work. (I could think of no other way to get revenge without getting in trouble with the law.) I started Tuesday morning by pasting up some copies of an insulting poem that I wrote about her. (Copy accompanies these notes.)>There’s a certain young lady named Ellen,>whose fanny is very repelling,>For the overgrown mass>Of fat on her ass>Makes a gross, disproportionate swelling.>Her girdle’s a tight one, of course>It’s nylon- and steel-reinforced.>But no matter how hard She squeezes her lard,>She still has an ass like a horse. -Ted Kaczynskihe was a vengefull, autistic and bitter little bitch
>>218955767>He embraces her, starts making out with herhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh6SDvDhDN4shut the fuck up
>>218955779You're trying too hard.
>>218955685tyler durden (edward norton's character) wants a better life. He imagines the ideal version of himself. He partially becomes the ideal version of himself. The ideal version of himself gains followers. The ideal version of himself doesn't just abandon his followers, he leads and directs them. The ideal version of himself goes out and convinces others to live their best lives with death threats. The ideal version of himself gathers the people who are even worse off than tylder durden was originally. The ideal version of himself turns them into an army. The ideal version of himself sees the whole of modern civilization as responsible for the real version of himself.I'd love to say this isn't hard, but, you need an IQ north of 110 to map this shit.
>>218940899>>218942112>>218945841Balance is a tricky thing. I like that Marquis de Sade idea that people live torn between two sides, could be virtue or malice, loneliness or community, discipline or chaos, one or zero, etc. Both sides fundamentally reject one another and both give their own kinds of joys while demanding a price for what they give. Of course that we want to find a kind of peace between the two sides, to live in balance, gather as much of the good they offer while trying to pay as little of the price as we can.Marquis thought that those who try to do just that are doomed to be nothing, they'll be forever ashamed for what they enjoy, never enjoying it fully, but also unable to stop wanting it. He hated those people and much respected the ones living on the extremes, either fully virtuous or utterly degenerate, totally alone or living in perpetual companionship, one or zero, cuz they not only fully enjoy what they like but actively pay the price those kinds of extreme ways of living demand. They live with a kind of honesty and conviction with themselves. They know they are doomed and still enjoy.
>>218955732Now that i think about it c it literal\y was a cult. his onboarding is text book bootcamp brainwashing and mind breaking. he w`s creating his own army from the get go. and it all started with these fighting pits. pretty genius how effictive that was for alot of people.Like they everyone watching wanted to join tylers cult. Wonderful study in these heady cerebral films. fight club +as the be the another one of those mega narcissistic yuppie power fantasies. like im dure you can find a japenese manga about it.contrasts pretty well compared to the psychopathy of american psycho.
>>218955824Yeah? And women are cruel and spiteful BPDemons
>>218955824>he was spiteful therefore his criticism on society is le wrongway to throw the baby out with the bathwater you midwitt.
>>218955925de sade lived in the period of french history that created the left and right divide
>>218955874>trying is stupid, just be a loser like me!
>>218955948thanks grok
>>218955874You're not doing anything at all. For anyone. Great job.
>>218954222that men are alienated and lack meaning. the film critiques them taking it too far by founding a cult and becoming mindless drones for some other cause. but men aren't alienated and don't lack meaning.
>>218955948cults attract followers because they promise purpose to people without purpose. antisocial behavior is driven by society providing no purpose. browns are fine with a society without purpose because being cattle is an upgrade from their current status.
>>218955899Perhaps the cultish behavior was his personsilty consuming other peoples identitites. His personality bevoming t+e very bavkround of society. his ideal version of himself extended beyond one single person and almost into very existance itself.
>>218956123its not a critique, its a caution. Men with no purpose will embrace literally any purpose.
>>218956018>>218956049Trying too hard to bait, I mean. There are a couple of tells that this isn't sincere raging.
>>218956172No. >>218956175
>>218956123anyone over 100 IQ should feel alienated to the retarded clown world we live in
>>218955775???
>>218956224So beating each other up was a purpose?
>>218956201You're so disingenuous you only view the world through people trying to bait you. My condolences, it must be rough.
>>218956280Fights are purpose, yes.
>be tyler durden>you're a nihilist almost consumed by fear who wants to die every day>imagine the best version of yourself>its a nihilist without fear>the nihilist without fear challenges you to overcome your fears>you do, but still don't get it>he challenges others to overcome their fears>they do>he finds people who's fears are trivial, and challenges them to overcome them>they do>he finds people who can easily overcome their fears but it doesn't help, because they have nothing else>he recruits them>your best version of yourself keeps moving further and further away from you>your biggest fear is rejection>you're being rejected>you still don't get it>you try to get back>it doesn't work>you try to unmake what the ideal version of yourself did>you can't>you realize all you can do is kill the idealized version of yourself>it works>but its still too latethe last three bits are just because a movie needs an ending.
>>218956305I'm sorry for calling it out. I'll stay quiet next time so you can nab someone unsuspecting.
>>218956201What's insincere about being mad about struggling to pay my (((bills))) and feed my family? What's insincere about being mad about elites barbecuing infants on zoom calls?
>>218955779its that you're trying too hard to "fit in," moron.
>>218956328Compared to being an insurence adjuster crashing support groups?
>>218956721Obviously? you just trying to slide >>218956580 or something? Practically no one browses the index anymore.
i don't like marla so its a bad movie
>>218956769It was a pretty apt breakdown. But it wasnt about being without purpose. its i guess rejecting the purpose society gives you. but i suppose that a nihilist would want to destroy history and face their fears if nothing mattered anyways
>>218956989working jobs you hate to buy shit you don't need, at absolute best, is not "purpose."
>>218957064Its a shitty purpose becuase you are just a cog for zog . Its a shitty purpose but whats a yuppie to do?
>>218957108is it really that hard for you to comprehend that it would take someone like the ideal version of tyler durden to shake people out of a cycle of doing things they don't want to do for reasons they don't care about?
>>218955849Sorry you were too dumb to figure out Project Mayhem was a cult, bro. Having a low IQ isn't entirely your fault.
>>218956328Their purpose ends up being ironic, retard. They reclaim their bodies by destroying them (literally) and they sublimate their personal agency to a cult.
>>218957204Crazy people are awesome. The bum yelling schizobabble on the street at night is a god .
>>218957275david foster wallace killed himself because he realized only people with IQs over 130 were even capable of irony. For everyone else, it was sincerity.Every society before modern needed a "coming of age" ceremony (for boys at least) that required pain and would leave a scar. It would involve a challenge, an injury, and a success, and then a boy would become a man. Fight club is commentary on what happens to men (written by a faggot) when that doesn't happen. Men become honorary women who succumb to the "nesting instinct."
>>218957428Dfw killed himself becuase he realized he was getting too old for this shit.
>>218957275you can't know your physical limits until they are tested, is the point you intentionally missed.
>>218957490"this shit" being denial of reality. He couldn't handle that he was wrong.
>>218956658Fit into what exactly?
>>218957984a place (you) imagined that communicates entirely in maymays
>>218957613Cool cliche but it doesn't disprove the irony in the story, retard.
>>218959693There is zero irony in fight club. There's zero irony in real life as well.
wouldn't it be funny if humanity were a live action VR quantum videogame choose your own misadventures USA is in it's series finale?
>>218959921I like inserting Fight Club dialog into my every day conversations. The things we own, end up owning us
>>218957428I don't care about the sexuality of the author "I haven't been fucked that good since grade school"
>>218957204that's called deprograming people
>>218957204you mean cult leader's?
>>218956580fun fact: credit card companies made back ups of their debt record's after this story was released as at the time of release if the servers were destroyed the debt would be released just as current administration is trying to dissolve The Constitution in order to make The USA no longer a legal entity thus dissolving the $38Trillion of national debt
>>>/b/947372270
>>218955151What's your objection to this example?
>>218955775>>218955151>>218955374>>218955344Why are these faggot redditors ITT just to be catty bitches?
>>218950588Therapy isn't necessary if women and faggots had no power
>>218964207>just as current administration is trying to dissolve The Constitution in order to make The USA no longer a legal entityOh just shut the fuck up already, you assblasted queer. Ten years of these bullshit histrionics are enough.
>>218955824>he was a vengefull, autistic and bitter little bitchBut not wrong
>>218955824K, so what does any of this have to do with his analysis and criticisms of society and it's unnatural environment that it treats with SSRI's?
>>218969532>>218969584You don't understand how leftists work. They made fun of him. That invalidates everything about him and now no one should pay him any mind at all.Leftist fags operate this way because it's how the mockery they experienced as children made them feel. Completely invalidated.
>>218969654That's how women and fags work
>>218969721>leftists>women and fagsWe're saying the same thing
>>218942112being a writer isn't a real job, so I would bet anything he actually agrees that the stable white collar 45 hour a week office job that the narrator has would be a miserable existence
>>218969022>t.
>>218969933you romanticize the idea of being upgraded to cattle.
>>218969933That's what im saying, it's not a satire, he wrote a novel with white nationalist themes and he is friends with Jim Goad.
>the comic sequels>written by the original authorLMAO
>>218972926you’re a retard, I was talking about the author and not stating my own opinion>>218973085Yes, I agree with you
>>218973528>i was talkingout your ass
>>218973218>Sebastian>"I am Jack's male pattern baldness">married to Marla>procreating with Marla>suburbia>meds>"cheating" with Tyler
so far the anonymous posters in this thread do not understand the movie
>>218975629the third comic is even dumber
>>218976669I want to forget this as hard as I can
It's just another Jewish film.
>>218977843Explain.
>>218940236How do you mean?
>>218980429It's made by Jews for Jews. All movies are.
>>218985350Then explain "Goyslop"
>>218986631It's whatever shit Jews create that normal people consume.
