Who was actually in the wrong here?
>>219024987adam and eve for disobeying god
they are both trying to open a portal to get to hell so its pretty obvious anon
>>219025135Not a portal, a 1-way gateway to enlightenment.
>>219025693I suppose. but I'd rather not become one of hell's heroes.
>>219025834Satan wants you to think for yourself, it's God that wants to force you to believe exactly what he says, anon.
>>219025881>Satan gave humanity free willfucking retard.
>>219025834Even hell has its heroes!
>>219026418>you have free will goy!>but if you don't follow my ethical philosophy to the letter you're going to hellWow, some free will you got there buddy.
>>219026703Its your choice, dumb fuck.
>>219024987whoever wrote the script and or the book it was based on
Mumbo jumbo
>>219027880BOO
>>219025693a 1-way gateway to enlightenmentenLIGHTenmentbringing lightlight-bringer?Lucifercheckmate retard.
>>219027794Well I liked it, it's very 90's
>>219027756do what I say or I'll kill you is not a choice, kek.
>>219027988Would you prefer the dark?
>>219028018good thing that isnt the choice, dumb fuck.the choice is rebel and pretend to be happy with the consequences or follow and be eternally happy.
>>219028672>be a slave and be happy>take choices on your own and risk being unhappyWho has true freedom again?
>>219028960the ones making the choice, dumb fuck.
>>219029030The choice given to you by God is binary, it's not a real choice. Lucifer gives you a complex decision tree.
>uses the gutter of your priceless 13th century grimoire as his ashtra, stubs cigarettes out on the gilded letteringyeah i'm thinking based
>>219029164see>>219026418dumb fuck
>>219024987Telfar for not killing his wife for her sinfulness and burning the book to erase the temptation from all of humanity.
>>219029260Satan gave humanity the idea of looking beyond the simple binary "choice", which is actually enslavement, forced on us by God.
>>219029174>getting attached to earthly itemsnever gonna open the 9th gate
>>219029341>god forced freewill upon us>this is bad because... it just is ok!
>>219029341>god "Yo i gave you free choice">satan "inject heroin straight into your penis">god "i mean you can, but it's not good for you">some faggot on 4chan thinks satan is the good guy
>>219029385Fake free will, do as I say or go to hell.
>>219029465>do as I say or go to hell.is hell bad or not? make you mind up, dumb fuck.
>>219029454Lucifer presents real freedom, to make decisions based on your own consciousness, the christian god gives you an ultimatum.
>>219029521It's not freedom or choice, whether it's "good" or "bad", is a christcuck concept.
>>219029465Even in the abrahamic mythos, it states around 33% of all people will actively choose to be evil and most people can just be redeemed.It has very little to do with sending you to hell, because God apparently will forgive most things with the exception of one very clear thing he seems to not want to forgive.Which is outright rejection of self.Which seems pretty reasonable.>okay you don't want to be up here with me and your fellow people, uh alright. i'll put you here, have fun. You're the one choosing hell. Why are you implying God is the one forcing you to go.
A choice that has the threat of eternal torment behind it is no real choice at all.
>>219029543Seems like Lucifer is pretty gay, straight clussymaxxing.
>>219029556>hell can be good or bad depending on your perspective :^)dumb fuck. its your choice to choose to hell and pretend to be happy about it.>>219029657why would you want eternal torment?
>>219029657god>stop raping and torturing childrenanon>REEE NO REAL CHOICECan you post nose for me, no relevance to conversation. Just really curious about your nose.I'm sure it's a fine strong nose, go ahead and post it so all the anons can see how strong and fine it is.
All the scenes where he's just walking around and visiting places feel so real, not like movies now.
>>219029732Choosing between hell and obeying Yahweh is not a real choice and that's why Lucifer rebelled. Corso understood this.
>>219029815Shut the fuck up frognigger
>>219029819satan CHOSE hell (separation from god) because of his pride, dumb fuck.
An insane amount of KINO is packed into this 5 min scenehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_LmXRM_Lw8
>>219030137Lucifer came to the realisation that following gods commandments was slavery. You are a slave to god, christcuck. Lucifer is a free agent.
>>219026703>You have free will.>but if you jump off this bridge you will dieFreedom of will is not the same thing as freedom from consequences.
>>219030261Jumping off the bridge to your death is your own choice and you will face the consequences, according to Lucier. According to Yahweh, you do not even have the choice of jumping off the bridge, because if you do, he will also send you to hell for suicide. God won't even let you out of the game.
>>219025834>>219026418Polanski's Satan is not a villain, he represents knowledge, and chose Corso because Corso was genuinely curious and wanted to understand, while Balkan only wanted it for power and immortality. It doesn't matter what your biblical lucifer is like, it's fiction and in this universe Satan is a more neutral force.
>>219030306christkeks dont get that
>>219030300>Jumping off the bridge to your death is your own choice and you will face the consequences, according to Lucier. >According to Yahweh, you do not even have the choice of jumping off the bridge, because if you do, he will also send you to hell for suicideAre you retarded?
>>219030176>free will (the ability to make your own choices) = slavery>>219030300so does the man on the bridge have the choice to jump or not? you keep contradicting yourself, dumb fuck.
>>219030380God says you have freewill, but your freewill begins and ends on terms he decides. Lucifer says you decide your own terms. It's not complicated, fly over american bro.
>>219030405>Lucifer says you decide your own terms.How the fuck do you decide your own terms retard?
>>219030405see>>219026418dumb fuck
>>219030479>>219030524You lost.
>>219029465>Fake free will>FakeBut it isn't? Me saying>Do X or you're a faggotAnd you really wanting to do X, but don't want to be labeled a faggot so instead you don't do X. That's no more "fake free will" than me saying>If you put your hand in that boiling water it's going to get badly burnt. I bet you couldn't put your hand in for 30 secondsAnd you really don't want to put your hand in, but you know putting your hand in is the chad thing to do and you want to be a chad, but we already know you're, not only a faggot, but, a spineless faggot at that because you didn't have the balls to do X originally.Both options in both scenarios have different outcomes. Just because you don't like the outcome over the choice you would make based on your schizophrenic lack of self-control doesn't mean you don't have free will. It means you're sitting crying because "life isn't fair" or some other childish cope.
>>219030804lmao concession accepted, dumbfuck.
>>219030968>>219030816You lost
>>219024987
Balkan was fucking robbed.
Balkan was in the wrong for killing the polite old man who played the violin.
>>219031602Yeah that guy was kino and makes me sad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfDsmbcrBJU
Christians believe that God gave mankind free will but what they don't understand is that God then compels a person to act against their will with threats of eternal punishment, which renders the "free will" down to a form of extortion (gun to the head) rather than a genuine choice. This is called Coercion and has a long standing analytical definition in the legal world, mainly to do with the subversion of an individual's free will. If an action is performed to avoid maximum possible pain/punishment (hell), it is not truly free.
>>219036129>God then compels a person to act against their will with threats of eternal punishmentThat's not how it works.
>>219037056That's exactly how it works. If an all powerful God creates a high stakes penalty for a specific choice, then the "freedom" of that choice is compromised. It becomes a survival calculation rather than a genuine expression of love and will.
>>219037056Yes it is. He also set the rules in opposition to the innate nature of humanity.
>>219029174Back then people used to smoke inside and cook food while doing it. You could smoke everytime and everywhere, even in airplane.
>>219037289God is very much invisible, He preserves His anonymity through various means. If this "coercion" of yours was real and as effective as you propose, there would be a lot less sin in this world, and certainly not all the diabolical stuff like Epstein and such. So I mean no offence, but I can't disagree more with your take since it clearly doesn't produce the results your proposing.>>219037613Some of them, yes. Monogamy is probably counter-intuitive, a real monkey-human society would have you being a docile cuckold subservient to those who wield power and monopolise the sex market. Same thing with loving your neighbour or even private property; we live in a reality of scarcity, so why wouldn't we just take advantage of everyone and subject others to the tyranny of our will? Indeed, there are many things that don't make sense in Christianity, and they certainly do not affirm our animalistic nature. But one must consider if this animal aspect of our human existence isn't really something to be disciplined, if not outright rejected. So where you see a contradiction, I see an affirmation of Christianity as something transcendent and very real.
>>219025881Then why is he associated with interdimensional beings (demons and pure negative energy entities) that want nothing but pure suffering and hate and violence for the human race? I really think this is just a bullshit lie. Plus God does want humanity to be free, he just doesn't like the kind of brand of freedom that satan represents (freedom to hurt others). God is more about the freedom to follow your heart and soul without hurting others. I swear you people have fallen for the psyop that "satan is a heckin good boy" despite him rebelling against God because he hated and was jealous of us because of his ego (he did think he was perfect after all and that the human race should destroyed) Also satan has a genetic bloodline here on Earth that's dedicated to lying and subverting the human race for his cause (he created them when he manipulated Lilith after she fled The Garden of Eden before Eve was created). Also why does satan love blood sacrifice and human sacrifice rituals? He has some very powerful people who engage in worshipping him by causing more harm on Earth.
balkan for going full inferno mode instantly. like damn bro punch yourself in the dick a few times and see if you feel it before self immolating
The jew worshipping christkeks are absolutely triggered itt
>>219029174Absolute kino
>>219037756>with a pack of cigarettes you can smoke anywhere you want he said to himself out loud
>>219029631Someone once said to me, "you basically only go to hell if you hate god, which is fair enough because why would you want to spend eternity with someone you hate?"
I believe in my percentage
>>219037903>If this "coercion" of yours was real and as effective as you proposeWhere did I claim it to be effective? If anything I implied the opposite, since coercion violates a person's autonomy and never results in valid consent, which can foster things like resentment. So no, coercion generally is not an effective method of control, human beings generally resist acting under duress.
>>219024987Sex with satanic, Swedish, lanky, long-toed brunette MILFs.
>>219038712The toe bit sounds weirdly specific
>>219038522I know you didn't brought it up, I wasn't trying to strawman. What I was (clumsily) trying to say is that in the absence of it actually working as some sort of social technology, then what exactly is your problem here? No one is forcing Christianity on you, in fact, nothing is even forcing you to be a good person under the strict Christian understanding of "good". If you're not called to understand God, to seek God, to know God, then this is all pointless to you since you're probably already living in your ideal society. And if you are called to this kind of contemplation, that is also perfectly fine. The Bible says that "fear of God is the beginning of wisdom", but it must be emphasised that it's only the beginning of the journey, the ultimate goal is to understand love of God.
>>219038752I'm just describing Lena Olin with a healthy dose of alliteration.
God gave us free will and our own souls, but to do that He had to make us in His image. Our souls are like a tiny splinter of God. This being the nature of our souls, they're better off the closer they are to God. We can make decisions that bring us further from God, even to the point of going to Hell and being separated from God, but we will suffer as a result of it because is counter to the nature of our souls. Hell is not made to cause suffering, it's only quality is the complete absence of God. Satan hates us for being free so he tries to get us away from God because he knows that it is the biggest danger of freedom and he uses that against us.
>>219038823She looks evil, like she would burn your dick off while you're sleeping
Lucifer rebelled for a reason. God was too controlling and took take away freedom.
>>219027880This
Jumbo Mumbo
>>219037756>even in airplane.movie was from 1999, not 1989
>>219031602>>219033504Bernie's death was sad too
>>219039496I suppose. But he’s shown to be at least a bit mercenary and self-serving, whereas Fargas (the old man) is just a kind host whiling away what’s left of his life with a few books, and glass of brandy, and his violin. Basically the only “good” character in the film, as far as we can see.
>>219039600Fargas was a satanist himself and it is implied he took part in the rituals
>>219025881Wasn't the whole deal with Satan that God told all the angels to bow to mankind and Satan and the rebellious angels refused? So, maybe Satan should get on his knees like the little bitch he is. And here's the kicker: angels don't have free will, they only have reason, so basically Satan and his rebellion were just pawns of God from the start. Only an idiot would follow Satan, as a being with both free will and reason, I'm better than Satan, so why would I follow a fucking lesser than? Why not worship a fucking bird or rock while I'm at it?
>>219039648idk if you are pulling that from the book but there’s no implication that Fargas is a satanist or practices satanic rituals. in fact he specifically warns Corso about the book.
>>219039600I think the mercenary and self-serving thing was mostly in jest. A hustler isn't the type to settle down in a niche bookstore.
>>219039885Satan does not ask you to follow him like a sheep. Hence why Balkan and the other satanists lost. Corso won because he wanted knowledge for its own sake. Not for any power or moral posturing, the latter is what basically all Christians are. Fakes using approved morality to push their own selfish goals.
>>219038786No problem nor axe to grind. Just dispassionately offering my viewpoint on methods of control that I see in established doctrine and to read any arguments to the contrary.
>>219039995Fargas is implied to be tied to the satanic group, from long ago.
>>219030365I'm pretty sure it's only Calvinists and other weirdo low church Protestants that don't believe in free will, and they're filthy heretics, so who gives a fuck what they think?
>>219040045I think you are thinking of the Baroness, who tells Corso she used to be a member of the cult but quit.
>>219038930True… god I love evil women.
>>219040109No, he had occult books and that specific book.
>>219040175so did Christopher Lee. being interested in a subject doesn’t make you a practitioner of it. https://youtu.be/vRVQD4FKPrY
>I'm the only apparition you'll see tonightDid he think this was slick?
>>219040017To me Satan is just another dumb character from the Extended Cinematic Universe of the Big Book of Jewish Bullshit, I'm more of an Odin and Zeus man myself.But ya gotta follow somebody, I mean you can bleat about sheep, but at the end of the day, we're hierarchical pack-hunting mammals, we kinda need someone and something to follow, some grand animating idea and mythos through which we can create meaning and purpose and all the other good shit that human pumps out when it's not in the stagnant morass that we find ourselves in these doldrums of post-modernity.
He wins because of those gay Italian twins. Who were they supposed to be?
Rosemarys baby vs this
>>2190404509th gate has better highs but some lower lows. I found the witch powers to be corny
>>219040444I'm fairly certain their role is to gatekeep anyone who doesn't put the work in themself. As for the iconography, no idea.
>>219040444they were angels (pictured in the engraving of an angel firing an arrow down from heaven) who had falsified one of the engravings in order to stymie any attempt to follow the path laid out by Lucifer. However, they could not deny Corso his agency, so when he returned to their shop the second time they allowed him to retrieve the true final engraving. tl;dr angels discouraging but not forbidding someone to open the nine gates
>>219040017I think your sanitizing Satan and Corso in the film. Corso isn't some philosopher, he's ambitious and greedy and immoral, he wants knowledge as a tool. From the way things go Satan seems to respect competence and resiliance. Balkan comes close to being the right fit but he suffers from pride and carelessness. Corso plays it close to the vest as exposes himself to less risk. Satan chooses Corso because he thinks Corso has what it takes to handle losing his humanity and separating himself from god.
>>219024987Neither. Their agents told them about this awesome movie parts that suited them perfectly and they were smart enough to accept the roles.I love Langella Balkan so fucking much. What a great character and performance.
>>219037756Stop embarrassing yourself, kiddo.
>>219040444I thought that was in Lisbon so they were Portuguese
>>219037903>EpsteinOne of gods chosen people. One has to wonder why he didn't choose better people.
>>219039885>so basically Satan and his rebellion were just pawns of God from the start.Sounds like an evil God to do something like that
>>219036129>pain/punishment (hell)why would you choose this, dumb fuck?
>>219024987johnny depp really looks like cyr
The books
>>219039230>>219040847>implying movie was places in 1999you saw many cellphones dipshits?clothing, environment, everything suggested movie took place mid 80's
Devil's greatest trick was to create Shin Megami Tensei games.
>>219037613>He also set the rules in opposition to the innate nature of humanity.cooperation and communication with other humans is literally our superpower. wanting to be understood and part of a community and putting our combined brainpower together to solve a problem is in our bones.violence, crime or lies are not inherent to human nature, they sometimes happen for various reasons, but our bodies arent even designed to dish out or absorb a large amount of damage. we all need eachother. a lone human cannot survive. compared to most other animals of similar size we are painfully vulnerable.you can be a pessimist all you want, but goodness is inherent to human nature. if you give people the ways and means to make good choices, 99% of us will do so.
>>219038712>>219038823>>219040142
>>219047279w-what did she ment by that...??
>>219047279Lynchian.
>>219046976The movie took place in the late 90s. Stop acting like a retard.
>>219047279Much appreciated!!
>>219048024proving that she doesn't have a dick
I got two hard rules I live by pop. I don't fuck with the devil and I never do tag teams with blood relatives.
>>219040881Dunno. Why did He chose you, anon?
>>219025881>Unironically being so contrarian that you try to Shield Satan as "the good guy"This place is beyond repair.
>>219026703>Free Will doesn't exist if actions have consequences
Johnny
>>219030306>Write a story about Satan>Make him completely fucking different than Satan>Get mad when people point this outIf you're making your own original character(TM), why even claim he is/portray him as "Satan"? Satan, by definition, isn't "neutral". If he wanted a "neutral" force of the universe, why not come up with a new one/use something else?...
>When an overweight NEET on 4chan puts his child-pornography aside for a few minutes in order to to explain to you why Christianity was actually stupid all alongLmao
>>219049904>make him completely fucking different from SatanHe isn't, it's based on an aspect of the Actual Satan, the giver of forbidden knowledge, numbnuts. Do you not remember that story from Sunday school?>ANY PORTRAYAL OF SATAN HAS TO MAKE HIM REAAAAAALLLY EVILplenty of films, tv shows and books made before The Ninth Gate have portrayed Satan as something other than a mustache twirling villain. Why? Because it's more interesting.
>whole thread no a single pic of seignierGAY
>the rich people worshiping Satan was literally filmed in a Rothschild manor
>>219038315>>219040881>>219050057Christ is actively punishing palesitnians and Iranians for their wickedness while Jews laugh
>>219025029>Be God and be all knowing>Create two beings that are 100% ignorant of all things like the concept of disobeying>For no reason other than for shits and giggles you place two trees bearing fruits with one containing all knowledge and the other the power over life itself>Tell the ignorant humans to not eat from the knowledge tree>They literally have no understand what disobeying means but simply follow God's instruction>For some reason God made a snake that can talk AND also understands the concept of deception and first lies to Eve and tell her God said it was okay to eat from it>Once Eve and Adam eat the fruit God acts genuinely surprised by this despite him being ALL KNOWING and knew already this was going to happen the moment he began creationThis story doesn't make sense.
>>219026703>You have free will>Also I'm an all knowing god who already knows every single choice you're going to make thus making your free will a total illusion>I, God, make every human destined for Heaven or Hell and there's no way they can change it as it was set in stone when I first began creation
>>219027756It really isn't if God is all knowing. Choice is a lie.
>>219050595it's like playing your own sim game. you know possible outcomes and behaviours, because you coded it. you can look up all the stats of each character at any time, also you log the complete history of everything, but you let it run to see what happens.
>>219050672>you know possible outcomes and behavioursNo. Being all knowing means you know exactly what the outcome is. There are no variables making the end result in a mystery until it happens. To say God doesn't have 100% foreknowledge is weakening him despite God being omnipotent. Free will cannot work with an all knowing god. Free will in general is an illusion because it's just your body responding to stimuli.
>>219050454>mention Satan and the Rothschilds>you link that to killing Palestinians and Iranians for some reasonInteresting... what made you make that connection?
>>219024987The audience for sitting through this nihilistic snoozefest all the way to the credits.
>>219025881This nigga wears adult diapers and owns an entire closet full of fantasy animal penis shaped dildos
>>219025135Corso wasn't really trying though
>>219038148he did that by putting his hand into the flame for like 10 seconds, i guess the devil trolled him quite a bit.
>>219024987Dude on the left. Professional boundaries are not meant to be crossed and, in retrospect, he really should have just written another book
>>219050018Nice brows but Olin mogs.
>>219048024>>219048356>>219049429
>>219050018
