Which way do you prefer?Brain chips or no brain chips?
Why would he need brain chips when they're bio-engineered to obey him?
No chips. They were unnecessary and taking away the agency of the clones in that moment feels like a copout made by a kid who didn't want the PROTO-STORMTROOPERS to look like bad guys.
>>219217844Brain chips? Why would you need brain chips? I thought the clones were just raised from birth to be obedient soldiers
>>219217844No brain chips. I think it ties nicely into the Jedi being stupid to trust an army of indoctrinated child soldiers while also using the to fight the republics war.
>>219217844I would prefer an Order 66 without brain chips because brain chips are stupidunfortunately no brain chips is even dumber and more nonsensical, so I am forced to go with an explanation I dislike over explanations I dislike much worse
Can we all agree that The Clone Wars was a mistake?
>>219219332this scene single-handedly justifies all 120-odd episodes, even the shitty darth maul ones
Filoni shit is not canon
>>219219481neither is EUshit either tartakucksky
>>219219481who decides canon
>>219217844no brain chips.
>>219219332It was unironically one of Lucas' biggest mistakes.
>>219219553me
>>219219553Him >>219219986
No one likes brain chips. If George wasn't totally resigned by that point, he would have stopped it.
>>219217844You need to be more specific. Are you asking if I prefer the clones to have agency or not? Or are you asking if I prefer for their genetic programming that makes them totally obedient without question manifesting physically in the form of a brain tumor that can be removed or not?If it's the former, then the clones don't have agency and never did. It was established by Lucas both in the films and in the interviews. Clones did not have free will when executing Order 66. Order 66 was a secret directive programmed into them that could only be issued by Darth Sidious, unbeknownst to the Jedi, the Senate, and the clones themselves. They were programmed to obey Darth Sidious, and they could not physically question it or refuse it. It's Manchurian Candidate. Clones having free will is a licensed material retcon made by the writers who had nothing to do with the movies and just did not understand them. Clones were never meant to be morally responsible for it, ever since Episode 2 established that they were physically altered before they were born, thus robbed of agency on a genetic level. They are meant to be living weapons, not someone consciously making the choice of pulling the trigger. They mirror the droid army.If it's about the latter, that it is something physical that can be removed, then I honestly don't care much, as long as you make it difficult and the clone can die in the process or something like that, so that it isn't too easy and has a price. In the original 1962 Manchurian Candiate film, programming was broken by visual symbols and words. In the Manchurian Candidate 2004 remake, it was an actual implant that could be physically removed, adding more body horror to the concept. Knowing how much Lucas takes from various movies, it is not surprising.
>>219220476rare intelligent post in a star wars thread
>>219217844chips rob what little agency clones have entirely they all become dindu nuffinsthey were already bred to be completely obedient to the republic, adding a chip is just an extra complication i'm certain the only reason why they were even introduced is because the tcw writers ran into a wall where the clones were too buddy buddy with the jedi for them to just turn on them because of an order the eu had a better idea of where many jedi commanders were actually just retarded when it came to military tactics and many clones began to silently resent them for it
>>219217844It depends on the direction of clones.Book clones pre disney were just mandolarians who obeyed order 66 because muh honor and the jedi treated them poorly. no chip works because Jedi are written to be shitty.Battlfront 2 clones are just fps shooter protagonist who don't have personality and are there for war and bred for war. No chip works because you're not really a character who interacts with anything outside war.The Clone Wars clones are both charachters and the jedi generally don't treat them like fodder so them turning on the jedi seems less likely.I'm for chip just because why would Palp take the chance the chip is just a visual form of indoctrination hypnosis shit which is what I thought was the case when I first saw episode 3.The "better" option is no chip and you have clones who activily debate the order throughout the war before it comes up and and hope they dont have to deal with fighting their life purpose conflicting with their growing individual personality. But again if I was a evil space wizard I wouldn't even take the risk of my sleeper agent army. The bigger issue is that after war you had chipped clones feel bad when the chip should've just personality reset them to default drones.
>>219217844I would prefer it if all star wars fags had their skin removed
>>219220528Don't suck my dick, fag.
>>219220704why were you thinking about gay blowjobs from a random post on the internet?
>>219220736Why are you attempting them over a random post on the internet?
>>219217844Filoni fucked up by giving them personalities. That was never part of the plan.
I fucking despise the hideous art style of Filoni slop. The writing is shit too.
>>219217844Nothing that wasn’t in the original Lucas movies is canon.
>>219221125So where does Shaak Ti fit into this?
>>219221087it's literally the exact same show as genndywars but in CGI
>>219217844I liked the idea that the Jedi and republic had gotten so comfortable with them they basically forgot that they were an artificial life form and just has easily as they fought beside them all it took was one order to turn on them without any of the clones giving a shit about killing comrades.
>>219221245Genndy didn't have orange jailbait.
>>219217844No brain chips was way better. Made the betrayal all the more destructive when you realize the comradiere was all just a front.
>>219221664But how do you gurantee that they'll do it? Soldiers are by no means famous for forming close bonds with frontline commanders who charge into battle beside them.
>>219221767Famously, even the most diehard nazis in the SS-Einsatzgruppen could not bear to bring themselves to follow orders to liquidate undesirables on the eastern front, and frequently turned to pharmaceutical dependence, crippling PTSD, or suicide.
>>219221843They at least were often blackout drunk during death squad happenings.
>>219221664The reason Jedi are brought in as mediators is that they are very difficult to lie to or otherwise deceive if you are not a wizard yourself. For the trap to work, the Jedi need to trust the clones, and they won't do that unless the clones are genuinely loyal.
No brain chipshttps://youtu.be/2lgG2ENW5Ac
>>219221767The problem with that idea isn't only that. Something that the proponents of "clones did it willingly" never bring up is the problem that it makes all 10k or so Jedi Knights unbelievably stupid for not being able to sense that these armed dudes that are near them at all times for 3 years actually hate them and actively deceive them. Jedi, psychic wizards who can sense subtle fluctuations in emotions like fear, anger, sadness, deceit. These are a bunch of grunts. Not Palpatine, who is a super powerful dark wizard, who has the capability to conceal his power level. And that's not what we saw in the movie. Obi-Wan considered Cody a good friend, who had never let him down in three years - their exact dialogue exchange from the movie. Ki-Adi Mundi confidently and heroically led his men, charged first, and then had a face of utter shock and disbelief as they stopped in their tracks all of the sudden in the middle of the battle. These are all Jedi Masters. Movies suggest that they trusted these clones completely. Trusted them with their lives, and were comfortable around them. The only believable way for it to work is if the camaraderie was real, and the clones were programmed on a subconscious level, and did not actively, consciously know about any of it. Which is what the movie stated pretty much explicitly by having all the clones reply exactly the same way to the order, "It will be done, my Lord." This also indicates that in that moment when Order 66 was issued, they knew Palpatine was Lord Sidious. Chancellor Palpatine of the Galactic Republic was not a Lord. There were no "lords" in the Republic military command structure. It's not a military rank that soldiers would use to address their superior. Making it so that they knew it all along is obviously very stupid. Which means they were somehow programmed/brainwashed/hypnotized and actively did not know. They did it without any hesitation, because they weren't capable of hesitating. That's why it worked.
wait if the clones were all clones, did they all have the same amount of midichlorians
>>219222516this is why the brainchips, as lazy a copout as it is, is the only explanation that worksall the other excuses are even more unbelievably retarded
>>219221245grievous alone is completely different in cw from tcw in cw he was allowed to be a major threat and make good on his concept, which was a jedi killer, and has 5 (4?) on screen kills while also crippling two more jediin tcw he's an ineffective buffoon who routinely gets trounced and only has two jedi killshe's not even able to defeat ahsoka outright when cw grievous was going toe to toe with jedi council members and winning
>>219219437Episode?
>>219217844if you view the clone wars only through the movies - no brain chipsif you view the clone wars through movies and filoni slop and all other clone wars media - brain chips, since the clones are way too humanized to believe that they would just snap and kill everyone on a whim.I think lucas should've done a better job showing that they're basically organic robots, like there should've been a scene where they treat wounded and then execute them without hesitations after someone orders them, something like that
>>219217910This. TCW was a mistake.
>>219222652That's the problem that came with making Order 66 a 2 minute montage scene plot device. Lucas could've shown the Jedi distrusting or feeling uneasy about the clones, include a short 5 minute scene where Yoda, Mace and some other talk about it - he didn't. Instead, he made a point of showing Jedi and Clones being friends and trusting each other completely, despite their shady origins. Lucas could've shown the clones hesitating or debating the order, just a small scene of Cody asking stuff like, "Sir, could you confirm the order?", "Repeat, do you want me to execute General Kenobi?", or show him being visibly confused for a minute or so and then making a choice - he didn't. Instead, Cody gives Obi-Wan his lightsaber and is all chummy with him, and 15 seconds later he without any hesitation whatsoever has a tank shoot him after he inexplicably calls Chancellor Palpatine of the Galactic Republic a "lord" for some reason. Lucas clearly meant the clones as programmed biodrones. A lot of the expanded material just ignored that or retconned it, which came with a myriad of problems that all create contradictions or result in poor, out of character writing. The way the films established it, there is just no other logical way for it to work than what the cartoon did. It was even Lucas himself who came up with this stuff and his daughter Katie Lucas was the one who wrote the script for those episodes. The reason being that clones are ultimately biodrones and there is no way physically that they can disobey a command that was their ultimate purpose and why they were created in the first place. I doubt they wouldn't jump at the opportunity of having Rex or someone else disobeying the order outright, because he is such a free thinker or whatever. But it wasn't about making them "dindus". It was about them not being able to disobey, because the movies showed that none of them did, and it all happened instantaneously and without hesitation, and Jedi didn't see it coming.
>>219222937S2E11 it's in the filename, Lightsaber Lost
>>219221153quantum immortality
>>219223412That's another aspect: of course Palps is considering the Jedi as force-users. If the Clones are brainwashed to hate the Jedi, that seething is gonna be sensed. If they're longtime battlefield comrades suddenly ordered to kill their good friends, there's gonna be conflicting emotions and such, giving the Jedi more time to react or even talk the Clones down. It HAS to be an instantaneous switch, Manchurian style, that no Jedi can detect ahead or time. The biochips work, as inelegant as so much of it is, because basically nothing else works.
>>219217844It doesn't matter. It's a boring conflict between proxy factions that only exists to move the plot.
>>219223681One side being led by Supreme Chancellor Sheev Palpatine and the other side being led by Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Sidious was one of the most interesting parts of the prequel era
