Should it be optional to read the source material if you want to make films out of somebody else's work?
Superman is a guy who jumps really high
>>219706446No idea if this is real or not, but if it is this is hilarious. Just how much smoke and mirrors do they need to pull off to make communism look good at this point? The desperation is reaching comedic levels
>>219706446It depends. If you plan on cashing in on the nostalgia of the source material, then yes. If you instead make it clear from the start that it is a re imagining of the source material, then you have more freedom when it comes to rewrites.
>>219706512>then yes*then yes, you have to adhere to the source material.
>>219706446Some animals are more equal than others, goy
>>219706470If you were to make a movie based on the first Superman issues, yes.
Corporations have been doing nothing but push sodomy and racemixing, I honestly don't like capitalism either at this point.
>>219706446>They kept telling us 'you're just imagining things, chud' when people pointed out the obvious after that trailerWhy in the fuck would the executors of Orwell's state allow this? Do they simply not care? What can they buy now that they couldn't afford before.
>>219706539Orwell would call for trans rights today and you know it
>>219706446>Hollywood is controlled by communists? You're crazy buddy!>Incidently, no movie can make communism look bad, ever.
Tbh communism presents 0 threat in 0 society, there is no communist countries
>>219706562
>>219706582Well there are, but they fail pretty quickly.It's the reason why commie students love to claim why it's never actually been tried, because they know communism actually has an appalling track record.But don't worry, they'll get it right! How? Dunno. Lock all the chuds in gulags I guess, even though the insane police state shit needed for that always contributes to extreme misery and the failure of the state!
>>219706582Well duh, the whole class-warfare idea switched to identity politics where oppression no longer needs to be obvious authortarian power-abuse but can be defined as "anything I don't like and I can blame on some outside group".
>>219706446The story's moral is a warning against authoritarism and systematic abuse, so whatever, that's ok in this hyper-capitalistic reality. Everyone knows this movie it's gonna be shit because of how it looks, feels and seth rogen, not its updated message.
>>219706510It's better... conservitard Angel Studios is distributing the Seth Rogan propaganda for him.
>>219706446Lol
>>219706640The story is pretty specific about the dangers of collectivism which clashes rather hard with the individualistic self-centered society of today that the movie seems to want to satirize.
>>219706582communist countries weren't always communist countries. Animal Farm is a cautionary tale about letting your country become one. Turning it into a tale of 'communism was working just fine until capitalism' got in the way is an utter betrayal of Orwell's intentions.
>>219706640Rogen is just a voice actor on it. It’s entirely Andy Serkins’ baby.
>>219706640>The story's moral is a warning against authoritarism and systematic abuseWhich is specifically delivered through a system that deceptively promise to make everyone equal.
>>219706582Tell the former Soviet bloc that communism isn't a threat. Main places communism has been tried:Soviet RussiaCommunist ChinaNorth KoreaCambodiaCubaVarious African shitholesVarious South American shitholesPlaces communism has resulted in poverty, hunger and piss-poor human rights records:Soviet RussiaCommunist ChinaNorth KoreaCambodiaCubaVarious African shitholesVarious South American shitholesThe only country where communism didn't make it worse was Vietnam, and I think I mainly believe that just because I don't care enough about Vietnam to actually look into it.
>>219706446>Anit-communist Animal Farm is about hijacking a popular revolution to institute an authoritarian dictatorship because the masses are too stupid or cowardly to notice, so long as you can keep blaming an 'other'. Sure, Napoleon is Stalin, but you could fit any dictator that rises from a revolution into that mold. It has nothing to do with capitalism or communism.
capitalism and communism are identical at this point. one group has literally all the power and everyone else has scraps, while money must be printed endlessly to keep the economy from collapsing, leading to "communist black markets" where things are sold at actual cost instead of egregiously inflated prices.
>>219706812>a system that deceptively promise to make everyone equal.so... capitalism?
>>219706823I hope this is the dumbest thing I read today.
War is PeaceSlavery is FreedomHer Penis
>>219706787>The story is pretty specific about the dangers of collectivismNo, it isn't, not even a little bit, not even at all. Is this a burger education moment, or did you literally just not read it?
>>219706565>50 years of getting assraped by hardcore anti-communist propaganda>"you're not allowed to make communism look bad"We need gulags for "people" like you. All day you'd just dig holes or break rocks, you'd get 3 meals, a bed and unlimiter gooning material and vidya. No contact with the outside world, ever.
>>219706822No, bro, it's definitely about communism. So is Fahrenheit 451.
>>219706817>North KoreaYou mean that country whose mere mention strikes fear in Americans and makes them piss and shit their pants? That North Korea?
>>219706446>umm actually Animal Farm is anti-capitalistthis is some 1984 shit.>The film premiered at the 2025 Annecy International Animation Film Festival on 9 June 2025, and is scheduled to be theatrically released in the United States on 1 May 2026, by Angel Studios.why would it have a premier almost a year before being released? What have they been doing for the last year?
>>219706817This of course ignores all the facilitated coups, sabotage, genocide and trade embargoes instituted by capitalist countries that intentionally did their best to ruin communist economies since day one
>>219706812So no different than the phoney "capitalism for thee but not for me" military-industrial circlejerk hellscape we live in now?The movie looks like it'll be dogshit but it is obvious how they can draw a more relevant parallel to the banker bailout crony kleptocracy we live in today than some anachronistic Stalinist terror regime that hasn't existed for decades
>>219706822Except it's the logical conclusion to the communist idea."To each according to their needs, from each according to their abilities" is just a nice way of saying "I decide what you get and I decide what you do".Which surprise! Is how it worked out in every communist/socialist state.
>>219706817Qing China was a failed state The Kuomintang were basically medieval warlords feuding over territory.
>>219706859Capitalism doesn't promise that in any way at all. It promises to give everyone the same opportunity, what you do with it is up to you. A capitalist manifesto doesn't reference class at all, because it's not its problem.
>>219706863the problem with "communism" was corruption and consolidation of power within a tiny group. "capitalism" is now completely corrupt and all power is consolidated with those who can just outright buy politicians. Authoritarian entities always operate the exact same way.Also I accept your concession.
>gommunism is STILL a boogeyman for americans in the year of our lord yaveh 2026
>>219706859You have a below average IQ and you think you got a high IQ.
>>219706900>It promises to give everyone the same opportunitySo, everyone is equal? but they aren't because class mobility is an absolute lie?
>>219706528I see.What if, hypothetically, theoretically, conceptually, I made a movie based on Investiture of the Gods except I changed Ao Bing into the main character's frenemy?
>>219706868fahrenheit 451 is about authoritarianism. same as 1984. every power seeking entity seeks to destroy all information that would lead to awareness of their corruption.
>>219706920You have no argument.
>>219706797Rogan being involved in any way with anything makes that thing a hard pass.
>>219706895>capitalist countries made Mao kill all the birds and melt down all his country's tools for useless pig iron!>capitalism manipulated the Khmer Rouge into murdering anyone with an IQ over 90 and/or shortsightedness!>it was capitalism, it snuck in in the night and sabotaged the Derg's centrally planned economy, resulting in the Ethiopian famine and starving a million people to death!cope
>>219706921It becomes a lie once you introduce outside factors. Like a government that taxes the workers to oblivion to finance wars, immigrants and bailouts for banks.
>>219706897>"I decide what you get and I decide what you do"So... the exact same as an "employer?"
>It's another anti-authoritarian work is confused for an anti-fascist or anti-communist work episode
>>219706446You can literally discard the opinion of any fucking retart who tells you Animal Farm is about 'communism' immediately. Even the retarded kids who eat paste know the book is about fucking Stalin.
>>219706533This is a film about how capitalism is preventing (((them))) from pushing even more faggotry and shitskins onto you.
>>219706533People who defend capitalism are fucking retarded goy cattle. Admitting capitalism is bad does not mean you are saying communism is good.
>>219706966NTA but do you really believe those are the only reasons that make people under capitalism unequal from the jump? Think a little harder about it, the clue is in the name.
>>219706866is this my invitation to the communist utopia?
>>219706975No because i can choose my employer and I can demand more pay for the work I am selling.
>>219706955Why would I waste time arguing with socialist zoomer retards who know absolutely nothing about the real world?
>>219706966>once you introduce outside factorsLike banks, billionaires, and corporations conspiring to print money to reduce the value of any amount of money you could possibly save in order to keep the debt economy running, and being allowed to do so by the governments they own?
>>219707002>i can choose my employerevery "employer" is offering the same pittance for what they decide you do. now what?
>>219706921>It promises to give everyone the same opportunity>So, everyone is equal?No. These are different statements that mean different things. It's fair to start a race with two horses on the same line. But if one horse is faster, it's going to win, and capitalism doesn't see a problem with that. Communism does. Are you young? It's possible you were born too late to ever experience a world before the inherently communist "all people are equal, so therefore equality of opportunity must result in equality of outcome, if it doesn't then there's an abuse somewhere in the system" paradigm, and so don't actually understand that it's not a natural part of capitalism.
>>219706992Reality has proven time and time again that a market that's mostly free from government interference is the best system to enhance the wealth of the masses. This isn't even an argument.Even today it does just that, just not in your country but mostly in China. Which once again is an issue of bad governing.
>>219707024Then I live in a society that has devalued work.Which begs the question how it did that.
>>219707051Why'd you avoid answering my question by responding with a non sequitur?Here's another: do you honesty believe any country on earth has such an economy as you've described?
this will work if the pigs use identity politics to enrich themselves and keep the other animals poor and constantly fighting each other. doubt it will go there, though.
>>219706936No. Why do you think they burn the books in Fahrenheit 451? >It didn’t come from the Government down. There was no dictum, no declaration, no censorship, to start with, no! Technology, mass exploitation, and minority pressure carried the trick, thank God. Today, thanks to them, you can stay happy all the time, you are allowed to read comics, the good old confessions, and trade journals>We must all be alike. Not everyone born free and equal, as the Constitution says, but everyone made equal. Each man the image of every other; then all are happy, for there are no mountains to make them cower, to judge themselves against. So! A book is a loaded gun in the house next door. Burn it. Take the shot from the weapon. Breach man’s mind. Who knows who might be the target of a well-read man? Me? I won’t stomach it for a minute
>>219707032I'm just going to skip to the end of this debate.The point is "capitalism" has this narrative where it internalizes any financial failure as the fault of the citizen, and pretends the citizen could've done better had they just worked harder (for less) while ignoring the only determination of class is the amount of money you're born with. Where morons can eventually luck into a fortune because they have infinite capacity to fail. Whereas the other, lower social class gets maybe one shot and then they're either doing okay or just destitute forever.
>>219706512How can you reimagine a source material you didn't read though?
>>219707078All the wealthiest industrial ones yeah, at least they used to.
>>219707134>I'm just going to skip to the end of this debate.Well that hardly seems fair. If you're not going to engage with my arguments I'm not going to engage with yours.
>>219707134You seem to be under the impression that a society where everyone is a millionaire is somehow possible.
>>219706960Planned economy is what has made companies like Walmart and Amazon so successful where as pursuing fully market based approach within the company itself where each department was basically competing against everyone else was the reason that Sears imploded from a market mammoth and went bankrupt. These things don’t exist in a vacuum and things like poverty and human rights violations are often result of outside interference but can of course also come from bad leadership. Indonesia committed genocide again people it considered leftist at the direction and backing of the United States. Same way US propped up human rights violating right wing dictatorships in South America and Iran.
>>219707145I can skim through a synopsis of the source material and get a basic understanding of the lore; this does not mean I've read the source material.
>>219707161Your arguments are just the internalized bullshit "capitalism" preaches to keep you from recognizing how rigged the game is.
>>219707146Such as?This is gonna be good lol
>>219707134>there has never been a self-made millionaire
>>219707166>everyone can't be millionaires>but also its you're fault you're not a millionaire
>>219707168>Planned economy is what has made companies like Walmart and Amazon so successfulA business is not a country and a country is not a business, it seems inane to even bring this up.
>>219707166That is literally what capitalism is sold as.
>>219707129>unreliable narrator is unreliablewow. yeah there's no government edicts operating within this government organization that exists to do what the government wants. no sir. the "people" wanted it. Yeah. its "their" fault they're being oppressed.
"Animals" is almost 50 years old and still we got people pearl clutching that turning Animal Farm on its head is a subversive idea.
>>219707217and you'll be able to name the differences and they'll totally be meaningful, rather than simply different terms describing the same thing.
>>219707217>*Laughs in British*
>>219706859>it's a midwit thinks he's smart episode
>>219706986But anon...capitalism isn't preventing jack shit...
>>219707191The idea is and always will be that most can live a decent life (a way better life than you could have under a 100% state-controlled eceonomy) not that luxury could EVER be in the reach of the majority of the population, that is obviously impossible.
>>219707191It is. You can become a millionaire. You can start a business. These things are all doable and nobody will stop you. In fact it's actively encouraged. The only things stopping you are your own competence and will. There are a thousand underfilled niches where a man can make a lot of money. I own a business draining heating systems. Is it glamorous? No. Is it interesting? Also no. But it makes a lot of money, and to make this money I didn't have to jump through hoops or go to Stanford, I just had to have the faculty to recognise the niche, the will to actually do it, and a credit score that wasn't even that good.
>>219707274>a person uses a term only used by people it describes episode
>>219707219Not really, no economic theory would ever make that claim.
>>219707309The things stopping me is the fact I can't quit my job and gamble on my future. I can't obtain capital without potentially crippling debt as my family is also a bunch of working stiffs, rather than other "self-made" millionaires.
>>219706446I would think if they are using the lens of Animal Farm to criticize contemporary economic realities of our country and era that they fully understand the intent of the book. What's the point in criticizing socialism in a country that isn't socialist?
>>219707315claiming it is (you)r fault that (you) are not a millionaire is asserting it is possible for everyone to be a millionaire. Not sure why you don't get this. Mapping issue?
>>219706446source material was anti both
>>219707315Why not?Our current economy implicitly does claim that, but that is besides the point really.
>>219707252Scale matters. You can accurately model the movement of a hundred or a thousand ants, you can't accurately model the movement of 10 million ants. The priority of a business is to use the workers to provide benefit to its shareholders. The benefit of a nation is, or should be, to benefit the nation as a whole, including all the 'workers'.A business exists in an economic environment unified by a single economic dynamic (excluding multinationals, of course). A nation exists in an environment surrounded by countries working on their own economic basis.That's just some of the main ones.
>>219707400You're just pulling stuff out of your ass now.
>>219706539They were paid money. Also, George Orwell ain't around to protest, just his descendents who don't give a fuck and want to make new money from old rope, especially since the property enters the public domain in America in 2041.
>>219707331So the investment is too risky for you? That's not capitalism's fault. That's a you problem. >Capitalism is bad because I can't make a lot of money!>Well I COULD, but I'd have to actually depend on my own intelligence and capability, and I might fail, which is scary :(This is a very different problem to the one you are presenting. You can't cross a river while keeping a foot on both shores, that's not the river's fault.
>>219707342Did the king of "capitalism" come down from his throne and give you that promise? What are you even talking about? The free market is an economic system which promises just one thing: to be the most efficient at creating wealth. So if you want wealth you want a free market. If you want commie-block housing, bread-lines, borders with mine-fields on the inside and political oppression you chose whatever flavor of stated-controlled economy you like.If you want the guarantee of exceptional wealth then you won't find that because it's economically impossible for everyone to be rich.
>>219707400>excluding multinationals, of coursethese are the ones people are talking about when they say there's no functional difference between a business and a country.you're also pushing this fantasy that no country interferes with another country. which is interesting.
>>219707457What colour is your Bugatti?
>>219707432Why ask for differences if you don't want to talk about them? That scaling one is important, it's like the unspoken fundamental theorem of statistics.
>>219707400>The priority of a business is to use the workers to provide benefit to its shareholders. Which is why we’re allowing oil companies to destroy the environment for everyone for quarterly profits for the few
>>219707393>Why notBecause work is a limited resource and money reflects that.You can't give people more money than the work they provide is worth or you just get an inflation death-spiral.
>>219707461May we see this free market?>it's economically impossible for everyone to be rich.Why?
>>219706446It makes sense in that there is no push to turn any Western countries communist. It's a fringe ideology on the political left that's mostly held by people who barely knows what it is and who only cares about identity politics.Warning people about communism when nobody wants it anyway is not super relevant. Critique of capitalism is cliched but at least relevant to the people that's going to watch the movie.
>>219707478I drive a Skoda, but if I had one it would be candy blue
>>219707497Because of the definition of "rich" which needs a "poor" to exist.
George Orwell was a Socialist.George Orwell also believed the median Socialist was a faggot retard.Oddly enough that's a level of contrarianism that I think would go over well on 4chan, at least in its good ol' days.>The intellectual, book-trained Socialist is drawn entirely from a rootless town-bred section of the middle class. It includes - so much so that to an outsider it even appears to be composed of - the foaming denouncers of the bourgeoisie, and the more-water-in-your-beer reformers of whom Shaw is the prototype, and the astute young social-literary climbers who are Communists now, as they will be Fascists five years hence, because it is all the go, and all that dreary tribe of highminded women and sandal-wearers and bearded fruit-juice drinkers who come flocking towards the smell of 'progress' like bluebottles to a dead cat.
>(((Rogen))) flick has jewish nonsense in it
>>219706582And humanity has never been more collectively prosperous than when capitalism is the engine of global economies. What's your point?
>>219707490Lmfao did you really just unwittingly subscribe to the labor theory of value and Marxian economics while defending capitalism?How embarrassing
>>219706882>fearYeah ok Kim sure thing
>>219707507>third worlder talks about being a millionaireso in what currency? rubles?
>ITT neets describe an economic system using knowledge pieced together through tea leave divination and meme-able headline ragebaitt. also loser neet but with econ masters
Why's everyone hate a country where 1% of the population controls 30% of the wealth but loves a country where a single guy personally controls 100% of the wealth?I never understood the century of fanboyism for a dude who lived in a giant palace constantly surrounded by celebrities as supreme ruler of a country where things like milk and electricity were rare luxuries
>>219707466The reason I dropped that in there was because multinationals aren't really business, they're conglomerates of co-operating businesses, so you can't treat them monolithically, you'd have to take each subsidiary in its operating nation. >>219707487Corruption doesn't exist because of capitalism or communism, it exists because of people. This phenomenon will happen in either scenario, money in capitalism is influence in communism.
>>219707510Just not true at all
>>219706562no he wouldn't lmao
>>219707574>multinationals aren't really businessYeah, they're more like nations with colonies.
>>219706882If showing literally any concern at all for a highly militarized nation is "fear," wait until you find out the only other name North Koreans know more than Kim Jong-un. It's America. I'm talking about America. That's all the average Nork thinks about.
>>219707548>>219706882The topic of North Korea really worries me about that line between schizo and shitposter because I don't know how any form of conversation is supposed to work with a moron who's starting from>the most horrific country on earth is le goodLike people realize this meme was made on 17 layers of irony rightNorth Korea is the last country on earth that has a border patrol with orders to kill anyone trying to *leave*Actual supervillain shit
Capitalism is so great that it needs constant boom and bust circle where wealth is erased from the poor and acquired at pennies for the dollar by the rich when you don’t regulate wealth hoarding and corporate greed enough (because booo, regulation bad)
>>219707563I live and work in Austin.You're letting yourself get off track. You're taking the things I'm saying personally rather than parsing them for meaning. Take a moment and compose yourself.
>>219707219A random headline by two nobodies? I really hate you simpletons that do this.
>>219707572False dichotomy. Both crony capitalism and Bolshevism are dystopian but the former managed to defeat the latter and conquer the entire world. There's no point in criticizing Bolshevism when it's been dead for decades.
>>219706582>there is no communist countriesBecause the pursuit of communism destroys them first
>modern commies are just ugly faggots that worship niggers and doordash sad
>>219707516How did having a beard become synonymous with being a faggot? It's funny seeing Orwell say that decades before the internet
>>219707635>Castro stans don't existlmfao
>>219707622>and workso not a millionaire. got it. just regurgitating capitalist rhetoric.
>>219706895mega cope
>>219707516It’s just the Bolshevik/Menshevik split ad infinitum>the working classes are too retarded to usher in revolution so we need to speak for them>the working classes need to be motivated to revolution themselvesThe bolsheviks won of course, because they eventually all met the working classes and realized how they were primarily composed of barely human niggers and we’re not noble savages who just need to be given a book
>>219707608It’s not great, but still better than the alternative which is tens of millions of deaths as seen in Stalinist Russia and Mao’s China.
Orwell was pro-socialist, so anti-capitalist is also truer to his vision.
>>219707623Rub your two remaining neurons together and recognize it's just one article about a verifiable trend of unaffordability and the destruction of upward mobility, aka the "equal opportunity" we are so graciously given by capitalism
>>219707673nigga he's dead
>>219707608Who is wealth hoarding? Can I see this vault of unused money?
>>219707574Only in capitalism you’re just seeking wealth just for yourself and in theory (lol) some of it maybe trickles downwards to others. In communism you’re trying to elevate everyone. And that’s why private companies never do research that isn’t entirely about making money quick, where as in socialised system you can develop sciences and medicine without direct profit motive dictating everything.
>>219707591That doesn't really have anything to do with my point. Each of those subsidiary businesses exists within an economy, alongside its competitors. So everyone in that particular market, in that particular territory, is operating under the same economic conditions. Which isn't the case for a country working in the world economy, where so much of the economy they experience is shaped by politics, geography, climate even.
>>219706882what bizarro world are you from mateNorks have been the punchline of geopolitics for decades
>>219707673Are they in the room with us right now?
>>219707674Running a business is workAnd I said before, I'm not a millionaire. But I'm working steadily and predictably towards it at a reasonable pace.
>>219706985Stalin was a communist
Communism is compatible with capitalism. If you lived in a capitalist utopia, you could start a communist enclave. People could voluntarily live there and work for free and share their wealth.But you couldnt start a capitalist enclave in a communist utopia. It's forbidden.Therefore, communism sucks donkey ass
>>219707708Just like there are unironic furries and trannies, there is a distressing cohort on the internet now that is very sincerely assured of North Korean superiority
>>219706446>jews subvert thingswoah no way!
>>219707689Post another headline as if you just made a cogent argument you stupid retarded monkey.
>>219707698Your "point" is trying to distract from how multinationals are more powerful than most nations and function like nations on the global plane.
>>219707681And how many people are damaged and killed every day because capitalists hate environmental regulations and other safety measures? Keep in mind capitalists hated seatbelt rules, environmental rules that for example were designed to combat smog (which Trump wants to now erase), etc.
>>219707695> In communism you’re trying to elevate everyoneHow did that go in every communist country that attempted it? Let me guess, that “wasn’t real communism”, right?
>>219707719I don't really count hvac service/repair as "running a business."
>>219707695>In communism you’re trying to elevate everyone*laughs in oligarch*Sure, when you look at communist countries, those in power are living to the same standard as the average person, eating the same food, living in the same kind of house, driving the same car. There's no graft in communism.
>>219707695>In communism you’re trying to elevate everyone.
First they will rewrite the books
>>219707747Please show me statistics that back up your claims of mass deaths in capitalist countries. Meanwhile tens of millions died in Russia and at least one hundred million did in China, comrade.
>>219707695Can I see these sciences and medicine from socialized systems?
>>219707757Literacy rates and healthcare are just couple of sectors where it’s been massive success
>>219707739I'm not really interested in that. That's not really relevant to any of what I'm saying. Multinationals might be more powerful than countries, or have bigger budgers, whatever, I don't care about that right now. But they don't operate economically like countries, which was the original point made. You're scattered and grasping. If you want you can just close the tab, nobody will know.
>>219707747>>219707781"Capitalists are bad for the environment" arguers when someone asks them who built Chernobyl and drained the Aral Sea and intentionally genocided sparrows
>>219707804prove it
>>219707734Are you really denying that there is a cost of living, inflation, stagnant wages, and widening wealth gap crisis in developed countries? It is one of the main issues in elections in all developed countries including America.
>>219707781Just look at cancer rates when Monsanto dumped their chemicals in the local waterways
>>219707805You were tasked with identifying functional differences between multinationals and countries. You failed.
>>219707781capitalism gets a soft pass on actively killing people because they won't die immediately.
>>219707820Once again, provide statistics/proof that show they killed anywhere near the number of people killed my communism. I’ll wait.
>>219707763I run 6 vans and two light tankers, and currently employ 14 technicians, 10 full-time, 4 contracted. Plus admin staff.But this isn't about me. This is about you, and your abject refusal to do any of the things you could be doing to make yourself a lot of money, and then blaming that refusal on capitalism.
>>219707695You suggest trickle down is a capitalist theoryBut the rest of your post on communism was pure theory, why didn't you suggest that?
>>219707806We are polluting on a global scale thanks to capitalism that is killing the corral reefs, putting microplastics in everything, we created an ozone hole and acid rain, we’ve successfully killed entire species at a record space, the entire planet is warming up because private businesses don’t want to do anything about global warming.
>>219707483I wasn't that anon but your post was particularly stupid >unspoken fundamental theorem of statisticsWhat a moronic statement holy shit you are an imbecile
>>219707545Oh yeah I'm sure Marx invented the fact that ALL resources (including work) are limited.
>>219706446It would be peak
>>219707846US capitalism killer half a million people in Iraq alone when the US invaded it
>>219707845
>>219707577Look up the definition of "poor" and "rich" please.
>>219707548>>219707708https://missilethreat.csis.org/country/dprk/>The incompetent joke of a country has nukes, missiles and weapons of mass destruction and is holding us all hostage!Why is North Korea the most sanctioned country on the planet? Why is North Korea not allowed to purchase or import oil on the open market? Americans fear North Korea so much that they think if NK is allowed to buy oil it'd be gg.
>>219707827No I didn't. All of those differences are still true, just the point about the homogeneity of the economic environment is more complex for multinationals. But you already know they're true, that's why you chose to get bogged down on that detail instead of arguing against them.
>>219707867The vast majority of carbon emissions come from communist countries
>>219707867And we would do it even harder if the USSR had won the cold war yes.
>>219707859>i run a small business and scratch by servicing something in a place where people will literally die without it, which gives me the ability to gouge the shit out of them.this is why i don't consider hvac repair running a business.
>>219707889So half a million killed in a war is comparable than starving one hundred million of your own people to death? Gotcha.
>>219707873Why?>I wasn't that anonI don't think that's true
>>219707896Mainly because it threatens its southern neighbor.
>>219707893its funny how literally no one ever uses that right.
>some animals are more equalthis does not make sense. it is one of the stupidest quotes to become famous.
>>219707867Good luck inventing sustainable, low carbon, alternative technologies in poor countries without a profit motive
>>219707907Now show that chart per capita
>>219707910OK. Well if you don't want to make money, that's fine. I don't have contempt for the poor, we're all just living our lives. But if you're going to complain about being poor while not doing anything to become rich, for no other reason than being too weak to take a bet on yourself without a safety net, then you should keep that to yourself.
>>219707950I also don't want to live in texas. I'm quite aware of how easy it is to run an hvac business in texas. Also how dishonest you need to be. but dishonesty seems to come naturally to (you).
>>219707936China has been able to go green at a rate that is leaving everyone behind in the past few years. They’ve already plateaued their carbon emissions for the past two years and likely will make it drop now that they’re so efficiently creating solar energy fields. They’ve created massive high speed transport systems and something like almost half of all cars are electric now.Meanwhile the US is actively doubling down on oil. Killing green energy projects. Defunding public transportation.
>>219707747>because capitalists hate environmental regulations and other safety measures?as opposed to russia's and china's love for them?you people simply are not serious
>>219707907>china>communistis there anyone left alive who believes this?
>>219706582They don't have to win to be a threat.
>>219706817>The only country where communism didn't make it worse was Vietnam'Nam has some pretty retarded laws when it comes to "offending" the Socialist/Communist Party government officials"Green Onion Bae">Vietnamese govt official goes to some foreign country>eats at a Salt Bae restaurant>gets gold plated steak>Vietnamese people find out the price of the steak is worth more than what the official makes in a month>some outrage>Vietnamese noodle guy/pro-democracy activist does the salt bae pinch drop faggoty thing to lampoon said official>but uses green onions>goes to jail for 5 yearsThe (then) govt official is the current head of the Vietnamese Socialist party or some shit now.
>>219707804>where it’s been massive successsame in the capitalist west, try again
Just a friendly reminder that it’s impossible to debate a leftist/communist because they are incapable of arguing in good faith and purposefully pretend to not understand things.
>>219708002Yeah and Chinese companies doing that are wealthy capitalists. China did fuck all in the 20th century until they abandoned communism as a way of running an economy
>>219708040just like the other side
>>219706446Orwell was a socialist, dipshit.
>>219706510>Muh communismIt's not the 1950's boomer.
>>219708056>n-no youI accept your concession.
>>219707920You mean the US forward operating base? US invaded Korea, then installed a puppet government. It is the south threatening the north.
>thread just commies getting blown the fuck out by capitalism.>Again.
>>219708040>Muh leftismYou voted for a retarded orange pedophile.
>>219708081If capitalism is so great why are so many people homeless?
>>219708093>ad hominem strawmanMany such cases!
random fact: the current country of china isn't even 40 years old yet, yet claims the entire history of the region back to prehistory.i just think this is funny.
>>219708045That’s not true at all. While Mao did major fuckups China still saw significant leaps in modernising the country and industrialisation from what it was before the revolution
>>219708113You still voted for the orange retard. Cope.
>>219708108its th-their fault.
>>219708108If communism is great why is it so murderous?
>>219708132>Capitalist societies never caused mass murder. Stop it boomer.
>>219708081They have a humiliation fetish.
>>219708147Once again, source your claims of this “mass murder” in capitalist countries. You have yet to cite a single statistic.
>>219708131Is it their fault that thanks to muh capitalism wages have been artificially suppressed since the 1980's?
>>219708174see >>219707845just like how capitalism claims its your fault that you're poor, its also your fault that you died due to pollution caused by capitalist activity.ya know its also odd how much asbestos was in the world trade center, and how the entire island was blanketed in the dust cloud, but I can't seem to find anything indicated increased rates of mesothelioma in nyc. i wonder why that is.
>>219706446I have Seth Rogan fatigue. He needs to be lampshaded ASAP.
>>219708174Read up on the vietnam war, el salvadorian death squads, the shah of iran, Pinochet, every war America was involved in etc.
>>219707806>>219707867remember when Mexico caught the ocean on fire and leftists blamed capitalism and men but it was actually a woman-run state-owned company?>>219707889>capitalism is when warlol>>219706921>class mobility is an absolute lie?only if you're a lazy slacker.>>219707134>the only determination of class is the amount of money you're born withit's not though. My neighbor was born broke in a shithole third-world country, grew up in a shitty ghetto, and now owns a house in a nice suburb. The reverse happens too, people grow up in nice neighborhoods and then go to college, do drugs, drop out, live in a shitty apartment and blame "muh capitalism"
>>219708208>communist countries never pollute the environment, chudThis is easy
>>219708233>i'm a third worlder and my neighbor went from third worlder to third worlderwow.
>>219708233>Please Mr. Musk, I'll tongue your anus if you just let me into your mars colony!
>>219708236Who are you quoting? Is he in the room with you? Does he know what that word means?
>>219708078I'm not a leftist, just anytime I've disagreed with something Trump has done someone squeals "You have TDS!!" and leaves no intelligent rebuttal. So yeah... it's the same shit
>>219708248>>219708258>yes, you did prove me wrong. I will now resort to shitposting instead of acknowledging that I live in a shitty apartment in a shitty neighborhood because I make shitty choices and have a shitty work ethicsucks to suck I guess
>>219706446>What is your job on the leftists commune
>>219708233Hey remember when a private drug company singlehandedly created the opioid crisis in America?
>>219708208>ugh your capitalist improved pollution control is ruining my commie smog!
>>219708299so what type of brown are you?
>>219708347Who are you quoting?
>>219706510What's ironic about Animal Farm is that is fits better with what Capitalism has become today than what they thought Communism originally was when it was written.
>>219708400this is what redditors actually believe btw
>>219708474the world is ruled by a handful of banks, billionaires, and multi-national corporations, who falsely claim everyone has the same opportunities they did.
>>219708258>musk out of nowhere it's always someone else's fault huh
>>219706446When the fuck is this piece of shit coming out? I swear I’ve been hearing about it for more than half a decade
>>219708498can you point me to the NEET farm animals in the book that have the independence and agency to avoid work and indulge in leisure by complaining about their life on reddit and 4chan?
>>219708604this type of literature never acknowledges the possibility of rejecting the system while still living off it. because that's the one thing none of them want you to do.
>>219708400>>219708474>>219708498>>219708604NeoLiberalism is literally the other side of the coin of communism. It's not inherent to capitalism, it's just what you get when you go for Jewish godless capitalism
Capitalism isn't even a real thing. No one can define that. There is only communism and various levels/flavors of resistance to it. They're the only ones who ever tried to craft some kind of unified form of total economic micromanagement.
>>219706446To be honest, there wouldn't be much point in satirizing the October revolution now, 30 years after the fall of the USSR, as we're living through a period of increasingly radical neo-neoliberalism. Unless you want to beat a dead horse or something.I know people here like to pretend that the entire ideology of political correctness is some sort of communism in a new dress and that its proponents want to re-enact the USSR, but it's pretty much nonsense. Today's liberals can't stand the working class because it's too racist and conservative for their tastes (except for minorities, they're fine). They are not only perfectly fine with gigacorporations importing cheap foreign workers to replace more demanding native workers, they also view it as a sort of ideal of multiculturalism and tolerance. They serve as an ideological shield of neoliberalism, in that they are justifying it by appealing to human rights, while the right wing justifies the same thing based on their economic principles (they will pretend to oppose it on grounds of national cohesion and security, only to follow it up by issuing even more work visas).But Americans are so stuck in their Cold war mentality that to them this is still the work of those darned communists who haven't properly existed for three decades already.
>>219708680I oppose capitalism but I would never ever ever ever address the core issue of being ruled over by greedy anti-human Jews
>>219708671>Capitalism isn't even a real thingit's voluntarily exchange. you go to the grocery store, and exchange your $5 for some milk. both parties benefit. That's all it is.
>>219707145Worked pretty well for Starship troopers
>>219707910Pretty hard to hand a discussion with people like you who have definitions of words they’ve made up themselves instead. Humour me and explain how this:>>219707859 isn’t a business? How do (you) define it? >>219707867>coral reefs You need to read up a bit more on that.
>>219708748That's what I mean, this is just what humans do out of the box. Trade and exchange things. No one wrote a book on that or had to enforce it. Even in communist countries there are natural "capitalist" sub-economies that grow by necessity, without any mandate at all, quite the opposite.
>>219708645>that's the one thing none of them want you to do.other people want you to contribute your skills or labor to society? what a shocker. this is basically the human condition and unavoidable in any system
>>219708756hvac in texas is about as much of a business as selling cocaine in nyc.
>>219708778if you want people to contribute then you should fix the incentives normalfags
>>219708801>fix the incentivesmoney and food are pretty good incentives I'd say
>>219706797Rogen’s friend, Nicholas Stoller, is also the writer.
>>219707531That's because capitalism is the engine to innovation. If all things are equal in every direction, what would be the point in improvement or creation? Communism is ultimately a static economic position.
>>219708787Why are you avoiding the questions posed?
>>219708824NOOOOOO THOSE ARE HUMAN RIGHTS (TM) NOW (paid for by someone else)
>>219708824i don't need to contribute to get those, and live a better life because of it.
Communism was created by educated middle class "intellectuals" who pathologicaly hated the upper class because of the status they couldn’t reach. They turned this into a call for revolution, claiming it would help workers and peasants. Every time when a revolutions happened it's the educated middle class that gets wiped out while workers and peasants don't see any improvement. The rich have always the means to leave and avoid the consequences. The same thing as in the west now, it's the high middle class spoiled brats who are mad at billionaires
>>219706682Is Seth Rogan the next George soros? I swear this kike is everywhere and trying to actively do the work of Moloch
>>219708824That's just the bare minimum a person needs to survive and not too difficult to get. If you want to convince people to play along in your circus you should offer something more meaningful than that
>>219708850You ignoring the answers doesn't mean the questions were avoided.
>>219708081There is something generally embarrassing about being pro-either of these things. Saying you’re a capitalist is like saying you’re an atheist. Why do you need a word for that? And why are you so insistent on saying it?
>>219708884I asked you how you, personally, define “business”. Saying, “not that” isn’t an adequate response
>>219707775They already did that with the cartoon movie right after Orwell died. It's literally CIAslop they deliberately made more pro-captialist.
>>219708916You're not owed an answer, especially if it isn't relevant to anything.
>>219708852>>219708883sorry but not everyone in the world has the luxury of parents that pay for the food and leisure you enjoy. In the real world, people work for food and money
>>219708947I don't live with my parents. Try again.
>>219708947You'll have a hard time convincing even someone who believes in utilitarianism or meritocracy on a personal level to participate in any system that fucks you over and treats you like cattle. My life is 100000% spiritually worse than it would have been at any other time in history thanks to Neoliberalism. Until that's fixed people will be checking out and quiet quitting and etc more and more until it's all gone
>>219708965then replace them with whoever else is working to provide you leisure
>>219708074>FASCISM IS ON THE RISE NAZIS ARE EVERYWHERE>heh, communism? unc thinks this is the 50s lmao
>>219709020That would be (you). You could've done the same, yet you fell for the ratrace.
>>219708998>people will be checking out and quiet quittingnobody is stopping you from doing that. although eventually, you'll need to eat
>>219706582Venezuela bros...
>another /tv/ post of some random bumfuck screenshot with specific wording to attract dummies>check source>giantfreakinrobot>giantfreakinrobot quoting tim poolLMAO
>>219709030so who's gonna make the food when everybody refuses to work?
>>219708998Not really, you are slavebrained, so you would have been a slave in any other earlier era. You want to be kept and told/forced to do things because you have 0 agency and ambition. The uncomfortable truth about humans is that about 30-40% of us are like this and are legitimately made to be told what to do, not given a platform to destroy society in some vain attempt at enacting that society wide.
>>219708946haha, bless you. Hung in there best you could.
>>219706817China is market socialist country and win the United States of America in every situation. You lost, cuckmerican.
>>219706582A "compromise" was reached. We are all socialist now. State spending used to be like 5% of the GDP in pre WW2 days.
>>219709076>muh everybodydoesn't really work when its so easy to convince (you) to do all the work.
>>2197090781. You're retarded2. You missed my point3. You don't know me or what I'm doing. You're projecting based on my statements which are just perfect descriptions of realityMeds. Take them.
>>219709078>The uncomfortable truth about humans is that about 30-40% of us are like this imo it's closer to 70-80%
>>219709086>you can't criticize predatory "business" unless you ... uh...
>>219709078>you're slavebrained if you don't allow yourself to be enslaved... what?
>>219709104*Socialism for browns only
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moWe3rk7LzQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy_4wklmhJcCommie troons will tell you with the utmost sincerity that these creatures should have agency over your day to day life and micromanage your existence
>>219709132I forgot I'm talking to a 17 year old
> Americans are so brainwashed they actually think Animal Farm was about communism.What a shit nation of 15 IQ subhumans. I'm glad that shit nation of retards is on the way out. Ironically because of capitalism, and the very things Orwell warned us about.
>>219708498oligarchs are laughing at people like you
>>219709208I'm older than you. Try again.
>>219709186Why do you start doing whataboutism about communism every time people start rightfully criticizing neoliberalism?
>>219709268have you ever worked before?
>>219709215this! so much this!!
>>219709179Communism is quite literal consummate slavery. What you complain about except 5x because now you have no choices or agency at all. You're too stupid to realize that because you only think in terms of words, not the underlying factors.
>>219709275>neoliberalismredditors sure love this strawman buzzword
>>219709215Serkis has been in interviews and hasn’t brought up communism at all either. And says it’s not taking a “partisan” stance on anything. When Angel Studios bought the movie, they made a lot of the promotion about how it’s all about the dangers of communism and that it’s relevant today. It’s a bummer, since this was Serkis’s baby since 2012, but almost all potential creative ambition has been neutered in a boring-looking movie with no style (he originally wanted to use HFR 3D VFX). When it premiered at Annecy in 2025, no one wanted it, so Angel Studios had to step in and, in the process, permanently taint it with their brand.
>>219706446Loving the subversion, very cool.
>>219706859Capitalism literally says. "Here's the opportunity, take it or leave it" it never promises everyone will be equal.
>>219709141>why yes I'm a lazy aimless turd that has given up and demanded communism because I can't handle the bare minimum freedom in this economy>YOU DON'T KNOW ME MAN DON'T TRY TO JUDGE ME DUDEyou're a fucking communist slavebrained turd. You CAN check out in this society. You CAN'T check out in communism. They WILL find you and make you work, or go to jail. Dumb faggot
>>219709289Yeah. Wasn't for me.
Animal Farm isn't anti-communist. It's a socialist parable about how a revolution can be subverted by authoritarian leaders who end up being as bad as the original society that was overthrown. At no point in the book do any of the animals want to go back to Mr Jones or his system. The system works well until the pigs take over. The book doesn't tell us how terrible the system is, but how bad the pigs management has made it just like the bad times of Mr Jones.
>>219709215Mh yes, the book that dealt with the core issues and ideas of communism surely isn't about communism. And clearly, all animals being equal, but some being more equal than others doesn't actually mean anything at all. Or the events of the story mirroring exactly what happened in every communist dictatorship during Orwell's lifetime.Retard.
>>219709275Communism has been tried multiple times, communism sucks, collectivism sucks, central planning sucks. The leftist mindset is inherently a castrated one, you put the politburo before your own family and yourself just as you put the third world nigger before it, you worship entropy, decay, rot and evil. When the wall fell people ran to the Western side not the Eastern, people flee communist countries to capitalist ones. The whataboutism occurs when you deflect any responsibility for this on the fact that capitalism did a thing, capitalism did a heck sanctionerino! Or better still the tried and tested 'but it wasn't real communism'
>>219709343how is>everyone has the same opportunitiesdifferent from>everyone is equalThis question has been asked a few times in this thread. still no answer.
>>219709382Like anon said, you're brainwashed.
>>219709384nobody here's talking about communism except you>>219709329It's a descriptive word. Take some ashwaganda and calm down sissy
>>219706900>>219709343do you really genuinely sincerely believe that 90%+ of the goycattle would continue working if they fully understood that their chance of ever reaching a higher quality of life is statistically 0%? Serious question
>>219709317>if you point out there's no real incentive to work in endstage capitalism then you want communismwere you born this retarded?
>>219709403Everyone is laughing at it because it's an ideology for society's dregs to latch on to
>>219709154All I wanted to know was was your definition of business and you are unable/unwilling to do it. Whatever else you’re crying about I’m not interested in, that’s between you and business-anon.
>>219706446So the irony is that it's being made by the very people it's criticizing.
>>219706859>>219706900>>219706920>>219707274>>219709343>>219709393capitalism really does completely hinge on selling everyone the lie that if you just hustle hard enough you can and will be a millionaire one day. Look up what "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" means
>>219709465Its pretty simple to see anon. Sorry if everyone isn't willing to hold your hand through every chain of logic.
>>219709393It's the difference between equal opportunity, and equity.
>>219706446These are people who've already pissed away more money than the rest of us will ever see in our entire lifes on drugs and debauchery, and now they want to preach to us about how "money is bad actually. Being poor is good". it's unironically time to start enforcing the Communist Control Act of 1954. Throw all these fucks into jail and redistribute THEIR wealth. Red Scare 2: Electric Boogaloo,
>>219708474>You simple folk workers aren't smart enough to run the world>Only us owners of production, finance and governance can run it because we're inherently better than you
>>219709490yep
>>219709507You just said the same thing twice. Likely because you're an ESL and, thus, have no idea what "equal opportunity" means to an american.
>>219706895>communism failed not because of its own failings but because of the evil capitalist meany headsYou fucking people.
>>219706533They've been doing that because of pressure from the radical left, you absolute fucking retard. It doesn't benefit them at all, but they're scared shitless of getting targeted by radicals if they fall out of line.Other than that, capitalism obviously needs to be paired with traditional values to prevent exploitation, and no economic system exists in a vacuum.
>>219709582wow almost as if end stage capitalism and radical leftism are a match made in heaven
>>219709504Yeah, it’s pretty clear you can’t/won’t answer the question. There’s no logic involved; the comment chain is right there.
>>219709578Yes, countries tend to interfere with the operation of other, competing countries in every way they can. but of course now, without the free labor of soviet russia, the world needs to find almost free labor to keep the american economy running. and/or just print money. and you see its not actually printing money because its "debt!"
>>219709578communism is physically impossible without an authority. who is going to enforce the means of production and distribution of goods?
>>219706822Except the "hijacking" of the revolution is an integral part of what Marx himself postulated as the path to the communist utopia. Except, naive idiot that he was, he believed the dictatorship would end naturally as soon as it wasn't needed anymore, forgetting apparently that the only people who consistently willingly gave up the mantle of absolute authority were a select few men from the time of the Roman Republic.
>>219709582>the radical leftThe people who want strong government and weak private interest are forcing private interest to do... anything?or is it actually companies like blackrock, using stock selloff as a threat of destitution on publicly traded companies in order to get said companies to push the narratives that are most beneficial to israel?
>>219709609I tend to not answer questions that don't need to be answered. Especially if it lets me call someone stupid for not being able to figure it out, despite the fact it was laid out.Even that hvac guy stopped replying, because he knew i was right.
>>219709671Yes, unable/unwilling, as I’ve said twice already. I’m up to speed, thanks.
>>219709490or you can work just enough for a modest living. you can't avoid work in any system
>>219707516Orwell was an idealist and fan of many of the concepts put forward by Socialism, but he absolutely loathed authoritarianism. Since the term Socialist implies at least acceptance of the authoritarian aspects of Socialism, calling him a Socialist would be categorically wrong.
>>219709721Whatever you need to tell yourself, completely random person who didn't get blown the fuck out when it was pointed out how predatory hvac repair is to people living on the surface of the sun.
>>219708665Capitalism like communism isn't achievable because of human greed. Communism requires humans to abandon all form of class to work together for the betterment of humanity as a whole which requires giving up a lot of natural things in humans and Capitalism requires humans to embrace it while at the same time telling them it's 100% possible to move upward in class and that the system won't become corrupt with greed and trying to remove any possible chance for competition. These systems can only work with humans that have had selfish and greedy attributes removed from them which will most likely make them communist as they would think class structures and money are archaic thinking.
>>219709739If I'm being completely honest I have more diverse opportunities under capitalism and I'm taking advantage of them. I'm not trying to avoid work you ingrate. The problem is that even if I'm a top 5% performer that still doesn't change the fact that society is collapsing and I can't have a normal life interacting with people because people are now mostly zombies. I'd trade in my opportunities for a better more meaningful living environment.
>>219706446So they are saying that we should not buy to see it? Cool. Im opting out of seeing all together myself
>>219709767All I asked was what you define as a business and you, openly state, that you won’t answer. I’ve nothing left to contribute because you’re being obstinate. Since we’ve already established you just reject commonly understood definitions and substitute your own, undisclosed, versions then heaven knows what you define “blown the fuck out” when there wasn’t even a further discussion.
>>219709331It's obviously not going to be even a fraction of what the 1980 Johnson Studio masterpiece. Hollywood is only able to destroy, not create. It's part of their brainwashing. So they made it >>219709382It's about class warfare. Stick to your job twerking outside of McDonald's in your unwashed clown suit for loose change, retard.
>>219709895Anon, lets work this through then, I'll hold your hand!If someone doesn't consider predation "a business," then what must that person think is a business? Use your words!
>>219709451How do you know it's end stage?Did the soviets in the 1980s say they were practicing endstage communism or were they convinced communism was still the future?
>>219709372>subvertedThe dictatorship is an integral part of the communist revolution. It's meant to be transitory, but sadly reality doesn't conform with Marx's very naive view of the world.
>>219706446Yes. The movie is pure revisionist history.
>>219709938Sam Altman, Marc Zuckerberg, and all the other hypercapitalist demons all believe that technocapitalism is the future
>>219709394Great bait buddy, got me to reply if nothing else.
>>219706446Everyone involved in the making of this ought to be shot, after a fair and impartial trial.
>>219709938The soviets in the 80s were aware communism had completely failed in every way shape and form and the country's population was being supported by "black market" capitalism.Today, literally all global power rests with "people" who can just outright buy nations and politicians. If you think this is sustainable, and not a precursor to collapse, i don't know what to tell you, other than you've been lied to.
>>219709616>No you see, our system of government and economics didn't fail because it was patently garbage as proven by literal mountains evidence documenting their awfulness, it was because of the evil capitalists destroying everythingDo you ever stop?
>>219709487Yes, by literal pigs
>>219709958>technocapitalismYou mean technofeudalism.
>>219706446Just gotta name 1 jew that is in and or worked on this movie then tie it back to zionism and there goes your modern audience.
if there's no communism to critique, there's no point in making an animal farm adaptationjust make an original story if you want to talk about crony capitalism
>>219709900>it's about class warfarePlease read the book before continuing to spout such patently false takes, holy shit.
>>219708771Capitalism developed out of the feudal system from the rising educated merchant class during the Age of Discovery up into the Industrial Revolution. It exists because it made them rich and allowed them to invest in things to make them richer. It was a natural evolution of economics. Marx wrote about this and sees Capitalism as a natural thing all civilizations would go through and when the worker class becomes large enough they take power to form Socialism and once things become equal then Communism forms from that.That thing about Communism coming from Socialism is the issue with most of those failed Communist uprisings. They were barely Capitalist nations and so didn't have the infrastructure to support moving from Capitalism to Communism cause it needed Socialism first. You can't skip a whole generational thing needed first to establish the thing you're trying to achieve.
>>219709995Why ask me? Ask whoever you quoted.
>>219710031Do not conflate mercantilism with capitalism.
>>219709490It can still provide motivation to work beyond basic survival, at least it did in the West so far
>>219710061The capitalism of the 1800s (good) is not the capitalism of today (evil and self-cannibalizing)
>>219708847Investment is the engine of innovation. Anything can be done if invested in. TV would have existed earlier but funding was going to WW2 and got put on the backburner.
>>219710061yeah, lies are pretty effective in getting people off their ass. religion did that a lot.
>>219708400[raughs in Xi Jinping Thought]
you people need to worry less about the system and more about the mental geist factorsbasically any economic system approaches perfection if you can simply convince yourself that it's perfectthere is no law of gravity, if I say I float and you agree that I float, then I float
>>219710050I'm saying it developed out of them. All these rich elites who would establish was Capitalism is came from those people.
>>219710091if you're going to go down that route, then you have to acknowledge how the steam engine was invented in ancient rome, but was deemed pointless because of all the slaves who needed work.
>>219710096Imagine you study hard to become a doctor, lawyer, architect, or any other highly educated professional, only to end up with the same standard of living as someone who cleans toilets or does nothing. In a perfect world, everything should be equal, but that’s not how humans or society actually work.
>>219710191>Imagine you study hard to become a doctor, lawyer, architect, or any other highly educated professional, only to end up with the same standard of living as someone who cleans toilets or does nothingyou just described life in the modern west. The person who does nothing is gay or brown or a woman
>>219710191In a "perfect" world, you'd study to be a doctor (or whatever) not because of the promise of material comfort, but because you need to be a doctor. Because the subject fascinates you so completely that you're willing to sacrifice years/decades of your life in said study.The people who are fine playing around with other people's shit/piss are also extremely highly valued.And by "perfect" i mean "the way things should be."The reality is this type of passion/exceptionalism are not compatible with corporatism, where everyone must be replaceable.
>>219709393>>219709490>t. lazy worthless bum who blames his own failures on otherseverybody I know who is hard-working and responsible has a good quality of life. The only people who are stuck with shitty lives either are shitty employees with no skills, or make terrible financial decisions.
>>219710287You're projecting again. My life is quite comfortable specifically because I didn't fall for the bullshit pushed by the west. Today, the only reward for hard work is more work.
>>219710245That's why you always hear how young people are losing motivation
>>219710287you're probably over 50+ years old or the victim of survivorship bias. It's a known fact that every single consecutive generation has worse opportunities under this system of "capitalism"
>>219710099>Xi JinpingLol, he's more fascist than communist. State controlled capitalism and absolute power under him for life. Yeah that's so communist.>>219710125A shitty thing filled with water made from brass that spun around when heated under a fire they had no need for. They weren't mining deep into flooded mines to get coal which is why it was invented in the first place. They were still considered agrarian by economic standards. The technologies for TV to exist was there during the war but wasn't invested in. The technologies to make a proper steam engine in Rome didn't exist in the first place.
>>219710031Boomers enjoyed both massive gains of capitalism as well as strong social protections. What could have possibly changed so much between then and now?
>>219710368>bruh da steam engine was invented cuz they found coal... hey >>219706863, found something much dumber
>>219710286It's basic human nature. In communist countries for example, manufacturing workers had to meet quotas, but because there were no real prospects for advancement or profit neither for workers or managers, nobody cared and did the work halfassed with bad quality results
>>219710368hero's engine was a proof of concept that established it was possible to convert fire and water into mechanical energy. it wasn't developed further specifically because mechanical energy would be a threat to the slave economy. proof of concepts are always "shitty things."
>>219710491You're now comparing being a doctor/plumber to hitting quota for no incentive
>>219710539It's about motivation
>>219710567>>219710539well, you guys been talking all nice and dandy, but who the fuck gives a fuck about anything yet alone society when there 100% will be far more africans and arabs in the western world than europeans within the next 20 years? have you guys seen the demographics for age 0-10 years the next 30 years??
>>219710567No, it isn't. You're injecting motivation of unskilled labor into a discussion about what the incentives for being a doctor should be. You're also going "hoomun nahchur" because you have no actual arguments, much less for why human labor would be needed or even necessary.
>>219710631>NOOOO STOP DISCUSSING CLASS START TALKING ABOUT RACEfuck off fag
>>219710637Whatever, the good thing I can quit this whenever I want
It'd be weird to make an anti communist movie when new york is currently flourishing
>>219710444>bruh da steam engine was invented cuz they found coalIt literally was. The first steam engine was used to power pumps to clear water from coal mines because coal was becoming used more in society cause of its high energy density. It was only later they worked out using it to make things move you could ride on which coal provided the best heating source to maintain long term heat to keep a boiler going making the technology and fuel work hand in hand. It would only get pushed aside once oil become more accessible and refined to power combustion engines.
>>219710694They let you think that. You'll never actually do it though.
This thread is a prime example of how tiresome it is to try and debate these people as they can never retort without first putting words in your mouth, just so they can finally use all little shower arguments they've got lined up in their head.
>>219710712Either way you're ignoring the point of how a proof of concept of the possibility of mechanical work was ignored because manual work was the dominant economic force of the time, because people could only see mechanical work as replacing manual work, rather than being able to do things not possible with human hands.
>>219707051Kek the market has crashed dozens of fucking times and the most spending power anyone ever had was a nearly 90 percent tax bracket for millionaires. In what bizzaro universe has "le free market" ever actually worked in the US outside of benefiting the rich? How old are you?It's like beaten housewife syndrome at this point, the owner class crashed the economy over and over, get bailed out and then retards like you think this is a "free market" or even actual capitalism. America hasn't been capitalist in over 150 fucking years.
>>219710509>>219710860There was no need for it and didn't have the resources at the time to make it useful. They would need to invest in the metallurgy to make metals that can withstand the pressures needed for a steam engine and then find a proper use for it in something. As I mentioned the first real steam engine was used to power a water pump to clear out a coal mine because to get coal you had to dig deep and those mines were filled with water to be drained. The need for the engine came from the desire to clear mines of water asap because there was a high demand for coal. What high demand in Rome was calling out this technology? They were an agrarian society that hadn't figured out how to make steel on the regular and needed it imported. Why would they suddenly have the means to just bang out steam engines? You need investing into other technologies first which were combined to make the first steam engine. Most engineering marvels come from combining various separate technologies into one.
>>219710953So the sherman antitrust act of 1890 doesn't count as a means of ensuring capitalistic behavior?
>>219711014>There was no need for [mechanical work]ya know microsoft got so big so fast because they ran around paying pittances for software companies though "there was no need for," right?
>>219711034I mean...be design, no? Capitalism by its own mechanisms allows for terrible mergers and Trusts to form because it's a feature not a bug. A system that constantly needs to regulate itself to just survive is a bad system and you should just admit you want a social democratic economy instead of putting this round fucking peg in a square hole and pretending it's "capitalism".
>>219711138*by
>>219706868>>219707129Oh lawd you're stupid looooool
>>219711138There is not a single "system" in existence that doesn't require outside regulation to ensure consistent functionality. Trusts were strangling the market and becoming a threat to government and the people. Without regulation they would've just become oligarchical entities.
>>219710027I studied it at Uni. You obviously did not. If you're going to lie, at least be subtle about it.
>>219711197We are agreeing and saying the same thing. I'm targeting anyone who's ride or die for meme capitalism itt as if it could even survive deregulated, which it can't. Anyone who still thinks the US is a functional capitalist market is either a shill or a retard.
>>219711101>Agrarian society still figuring out how to make steel vs age of information software corporation that established itself on top now buying out people they see as possible competition afterwardsHow are these the same thing?
>>219711318... yeah anon i'm talking about them buying dos and stealing xerox's gui code...
>>219711441How is that related to Rome not developing the steam engine because weren't technologically or culturally established in a way to need one?
>>219711602because they recognized the value of dos and xerox's gui code while the companies that developed them didn't, and viewed them as near worthless, because xerox didn't see a need for gui code as that wasn't their primary business model?is this an IQ thing again?
>>219706446
>>219706510Maybe when your desexed kids are sold and enslaved you'll reconsider being stupid.
>>219711658Cause there was no commercial need at the time because literally no one owned a computer due to how expensive they were. And DOS only got big because Gates's mother worked in the military and got them to use it for their computers first otherwise it wouldn't have taken off. They wouldn't become what they are until the 1980's when PC's started to reach a price range and size consumers would go for.
