How did these dickheads achieve space travel?
>>219812864They're fine, it's the universal transportation that's the problem.
>>219812892*translator
well it started with the space race between the usa and the soviet union
>>219812905How do you advance technologically when all you can do is quote past events at each other?
>>219812937It doesn't sound like that to them. That's how the universal translator is translating it.
They're extremely intelligent, he's just trolling Picard
>>219813045So the universal translator is flawed. Did they ever fix it in the lore?
>>219812864Someone else gave it to them, as a practical joke to the rest of the galaxy.
>>219812864What do you mean? "Mister Hands, when the horse came" obiously means E=mc^2
Solkath, his eyes opened repeatedly
cia, his flight plan filed
>>219813307Bane, the fire rising.
>>219812864German scientists when the guns fell quiet.
>>219812864One man, after the glass jar shattered
>>219813115Maybe, there's one of these guys in pickle trek but I never actually watched it.
>>219812892The universal translator worked though
>the ass and pussy>the balls and dick going into the pussy"what does it all MEAN?"
>>219814514Not really. Picard has to retranslate what darmok's saying instead of understanding him at once, like he would if he was speaking klingon.
>>219812864Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, DUH!
>>219814563Yes really. To Picard and the audience the space alien was speaking English.
Its easy to understand. Here is an example:>Big Guy and CIA at the airfield >The fire rises
The writers either didn’t care or didn’t think it through. It’s like how people believe in Helen Keller. Anyone whose thought about it for 5 minutes knows it’s bullshit
>>219812864The French piggybacked on Anglo ingenuity.
>>219814461The guy in lower decks just learned English before joining starfleet.
>>219815325>It’s like how people believe in Helen Keller. Anyone whose thought about it for 5 minutes knows it’s bullshitPoe's law moment. Just in case you're not joking, you can easily go read her writings and watch videos of her. Everything about her is extremely well documented as well.
>>219815447>poes law moment The irony. I actually have read it, have you? Because if you have and you believe it, you might be retarded. Go read the accounts yourself, but this time imagine trying to do it. From both her perspective and the teachers. Consider actually trying to not just communicate but to teach and(essentially) invent a language with no visual or auditory cues. Every step that’s described, think to yourself, would this actually work? Imagine Helen learning to actually speak, actually THINK about it, how is that actually possible. Her/their description of it doesn’t actually make sense. Even just deaf people sound retarded because they don’t have the auditory feedback. She has no real time feedback at all. In other words she has no way to know what is coming out of her mouth, if it’s correct or jibberish. And yes I know obviously “they” have explained all this. But if you think about it none of it makes any actual sense. IF it’s actually possible it woild take more like 1000 years. It’s like how everyone believed chimps and gorillas were learning sign language, but then when it was looked into it turns out it was fake and gay. I don’t know what scam exactly Helen and/or her handlers were running. I just know it didn’t go down the way they say it did
>>219815099It could translate the words, but it couldn't translate the actual meaning so it wasn't working with the language properly. It's a more fancy version of how when translating a language like Japanese into English that it won't always capture what it's actually saying and can sometimes spit out gibberish.
>>219815661Based. Helen Keller has had it far too easy for far too long, it's past time someone finally put that smug little cunt in her place.
>>219815765Yes. Frauds should always be exposed
>>219812937MAYBE HISTORY IS TO BE LEARNED AND UNDERSTOOD TO FURTHER ADVANCE YOUR FUTURE????
>>219815661>would this actually work? Imagine Helen learning to actually speak, actually THINK about it, how is that actually possible. anon...
Bumping to learn more about Helen Keller's schemes
>>219816416Most people aren’t mentally equipped to actually evaluate her situation. For example in the famous movie about her, the way she is shown to learn language is her handler writes “water” in her hand with water pouring on her. Helen says “water”. Most people take that at face value, but that’s absurd(and made up for the movie). She’s never heard language, and even if she had, wouldn’t know how to replicate it. It’s literally impossible for that to have happened, and yet the average person saw no issue with it. If you actually sit down and imagine what it would be like to be deaf and blind, and what it would take to be the teacher of someone in that state, the entire story is very clearly bullshit. I’ll again use my other example, literally everyone thought apes learned sign language, multiple governments spent many millions on it for decades. Dozens of academic papers were written and published. It was all bullshit, they made it up. Helen Keller is MUCH less likely than apes learning sign language, by a huge margin.
>>219816620Ok so now we ask ourselves, what’s the scam? The easiest explanation is it’s the same as the monkey situation, the interpreter is just speaking for her. Easy to see how it could happen, she really wants it to work, over time she even believes it herself, but Helen’s voice is just her own. No one can really question it. A few problems with this, first there’s footage and first hand accounts of Helen “speaking” if you can call it that. It’s pretty limited, and it’s possible it’s all she learned, is just vaguely English sounding jibberish. Also, it seems like “Helen” wrote material without the teacher/interpreter later on in life. Maybe these works were actually written with the teacher but misatributed to later works, or maybe a new interpreter got in on the scam. Regardless, despite the problems I still think the interpreter theory is very possible. The other main theory would be that Helen is not as disabled as advertised. If she could even partly hear or see, everything makes sense. Just a little fib, and her story becomes quite believable. I don’t know why, but I don’t think this is it, even though it’s quite plausible. Lastly, a 3rd scam that no one has thought of. My money is actually on this, it’s a gut feeling really. Just the way so many details don’t add up, but not in a way that points clearly to the first or second hypothesis. Sadly we may never know exactly what scam those 2 crooks played on the rest of us.
>>219815661>Even just deaf people sound retarded because they don’t have the auditory feedback.She also sounds retarded. You can only barely understand what she says in this clip and that's if you listen very closely.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ch_H8pt9M8
>>219817347Ya see if your bullshit detector didn’t go off multiple times during that video I really just don’t know what to say
>>219817347>>219817423However I freely admit the “speaking” she does is probably the biggest part of Hellen scammer I can’t completely figure out. But scams this pervasive are never just obvious scams or they would have been instantly exposed. My posts above offer some theories on the speaking and other things. I also admit I just may not know how they are doing it. I also don’t know how David copperfield does all his tricks though. Doesn’t mean he has super powers.
>>219817423The speech is not really the breaking point. Once you have learned alphabets that allow you to communicate complex thoughts to and from other people it's at least plausible that with enough dedication you can learn to (very poorly) articulate some rehearsed sentences through trial and error.The tough part is learning a tactile alphabet from nothing and then map that onto an existing alphabet like braille. Teaching words for physical words shouldn't be hard but any other concept would be very hard to convey to someone with no language.
>>219817347The most egregious is obviously their “hand language” it’s just fucking laughable. This is like on NCIS where the 2 agents type on a keyboard at the same time and it’s just jibberish. It doesn’t pass the eye test, but it’s when they get a close up and slow it down a little you really see how fake and gay it is. Hellen is missing most of the information from the signs. Keep in mind this is their custom built sign language, and they apparently made it so Helen is not receiving the lions share of it? Look at the actual points of contact on Helen’s hand, compared to the information trying to be conveyed with the signs. A real language purpose built for this would entirely be about the points of contact received on Helen’s hand, it would look entirely different. THIS looks like a derivation of ASL, made to be SEEN, if someone was trying to tell a story on a camera about how it’s really for this deaf and blind chick and no one thought too hard about it. Seriously watch the video again, slow it down. It’s a fucking lie, it’s a scam
>>219817541Well, I mean I’d argue that nearly every step along the way of this story is pretty far fetched. I won’t argue with your point specifically though
>>219812937They're clearly a reference to native americans like sioux/lakotas. Names like Sitting Bull or Red Cloud didn't describe the dude as a bull or a cloud, but some special event in his life that involved a bull which was sitting or a cloud that was red. Dreams also counted as "life events" so good number of indian names were just the weird nightmares they had in a sweat lodge that they told to their witch doctors.
>>219817778>nooooo dont be mean to the scammers
The jester, his ass spread wide
>>219813307>>219814192>>219815263U UU U
pewdiepie, on the bridge
It's pretty fucking obvious how if you think about it for more than two secondsJalob and Tarnor in the mountainsThe river Tamok, in summer
>>219812864Maybe the White people on their home planet have DEI programs? idk
>>219812937>>219812937Where do you think we are?
>>219812864Meme magic
I think the most interesting part of this language to me is the idea of how rapidly it could evolve. The episode implies that all tamarian speech is based off ancient major historical events, but there's nothing stopping people from using more recent and local events to communicate things too. Pretty much any small community could develop extremely localized dialects that are basically incomprehensible to outsiders over time.
>>219820160Your point is one of the reasons this concept is stupid. It would be nearly impossible to have a spacefaring civilization like that. Language barriers would be too hard.
Babish, at the psych ward
>>219817638So do you think it was a complete scam or was Keller really impaired in some way?
fucking dickhead ryker fucked everything as usual got the cool alien captain killed
nedry, his desk uncleaned
>>219812892>>219812905>>219813045>>219813115Wrong. The translator works perfectly. The literal fucking point of the episode is that there is NO error in the translation. So many people don't fucking get it.The translator correctly translates what the aliens are actually saying. But what they're saying is memes. Everything they say is a meme or a reference. Their whole language is stuff where the intended message has little to nothing to do with the actual words said, and the only way to know the intended message is from context. That's simply beyond the scope of the translator, it can't interpret memes of previously unknown alien races.
>>219821661Wrong. It was spitting out backstroke of the west.
>>219820160these people basically only talk in memes.which is completely retarded because even internet subculture from 10 years ago is largely incomprehensible even for online users today.such a language would become obsolete or extremely isolated faster than it could adapt.everyone would need to witness and participate in such a monoculture to even "get" these references.
>>219820518You're saying that because you assume a human brain. They're clearly not human, and the reason they have this weird ass language is probably specifically because their brains are evolved to store and recall events extremely rapidly.I think the concept is great, and Trek could have used more alien races that genuinely do not think like humans do.As a side note, the best way to solve this language problem would probably be to teach the aliens human pop culture and then have them communicate in references where humans do know the context. "Butch and Sundance, at the cliff".
>>219821855No. Wrong. They explictly say there was nothing wrong with the translation. The words and syntaxt were 100% correct. This is literally the point of the episode and you somehow managed to miss it.
>>219822068The universal translator thinks there's nothing wrong with the translation. It's like AI agreeing with whatever you say, it's not smart enough to realize it could be wrong.
>>219822031>aliens only learn pop culture from 4chan
>>219812937You realize you are posting on a site where that is 90% of what people are doing? RighT?
The entire thing was retarded because you need a base language to express stories in, otherwise they wouldn't know what a "wall" is, by far the most overrated TNG episode. The most underrated is Disaster.
>>219822126If there was something wrong with the UT the previous contact attempts wouldn't have failed. The translator can't be broken on every ship they sent.The reason it sounds like gibberish is what we said: they're talking in memes. You can translate a meme perfectly but it still will not make sense to anyone who doesn't know where it came from.
>>219822213The translator isn't broken. It isn't capable of correctly translating their language.
>>219812864I figured the limited expression of their language is a recent phenomenon after centuries of technological stagnation, leading to the lives of their people being very routine and predictable to the point they can just reference memes and people get what's going on.
>>219821261I said it in other posts but I honestly can’t say for sure. If I had more free time, and especially if it was a current person, I’d probably do a deeper dive to try and find out. I think it’s possible she wasn’t as disabled and they claimed. Or perhaps the translator was massively inflating her abilities. Or something I’m not even thinking of. I will say, from watching videos, there does seem to be some intelligence working in there, she’s at least partly aware of what’s going on. So I suspect it’s not entirely on the translator. But it’s just hard to say, you’ve got a couple videos, some books that are clearly mostly bullshit. If it was happening today I’d set up a gofundme to perform some tests. I highly highly suspect she and her handler would refuse the tests, which would all but confirm it’s a scam. Or ideally accept and we could figure out just what kind of scams those 2 were up to.
>>219822190You are making his point for him. Our memes are incomprehensible jibberish to outsiders. Don’t you remember coming here for the first time? I’ve been here for a decade and I still don’t get some references.
>>219815765I know right, how would she even hide in that attic for that long
Warwick Davis and Anon, with the belt sander
>>219822827I watched this movie about leprechauns in da hood the other day and Warwick was in it. Was pretty funny.
>>219812864I always just assumed these guys have some kind of telepathy that isn't fully developed yet and they speak in metaphor as a hold over from needing verbal communication. Pretty retarded but I don't know how else you could explain it
This is just how Gen A speaks
>>219821661ok but humans use idioms all the time and the meaning of those idioms are translated in universe"It's raining cats and dogs" gets translated to its meaning when an alien hears it, they don't have to ask what it meansthis episode breaks star trek canon in a lot of ways
>>219823689No, think about it tard. Chatgpt knows what that means. It only becomes a problem when encountering a new language
>>219824144they never have this problem with any other new alien language
>>219824963It takes awhile to pick up the language of the wart covered refugees in ds9 and there's species they can't communicate with at all, like the bug that attaches itself to B'Ela.nna
A mosquito bites, the itch begins
>>219815661Kek. What is it with rightwing yt grifters and hating on Helen Keller? I'm seeing more of it now. Is it because Trump proved that the Earth is not flat and space is real? So they have to go find a new topic to grift people? Sad!
>>219812937You just refer to new things with old metaphors.Like calling your space vessel a ship.
>>219823689>"It's raining cats and dogs" gets translated to its meaning when an alien hears it, they don't have to ask what it meansWrong. They often have to explain idioms to alien races who don't understand them.Like in one example Data is telling a Klingon captain that they're gonna piggyback a message on a Romulan transmission or something.The Klingon doesn't understand what "piggyback" means so Data has to explain the human expression.
>the crib, with the pimp
>>219815447>Everything about her is extremely well documented as well.You're right, but not the way you'd hoped to behttps://youtu.be/O_th1EszK34
>>219813086Kek. Didn't he then commit to the bit all the way to death just to fuck with Picard?
>>219816620>literally everyone thought apes learned sign language, multiple governments spent many millions on it for decades. Dozens of academic papers were written and published. It was all bullshit, they made it up.Keller was a fraud as demonstrated by "her" books instantly changing subject matter, tone and vocabulary after Anne Sullivan died. Washoe (chimp) and Koko (gorilla) were documented on film multiple times without coaching or signaling. Washoe was provided images and foods she'd never experienced before: a Kewpie doll wearing a tarzan cloth in a plastic cup yielded "baby in my drink," tasting watermelon she called it "candy drink fruit" and a radish "cry hurt fruit." Chomsky was a retard.
>>219823548I watched his genealogy and he was hoping to be at least part Irish given having played leprechauns in 5 movies
>>219814563The universal translator worked like it's supposed to it's just that Tamarians speak in metaphors that don't make sense to outsiders. In weeb terms it's translating literally instead of localizing.
>>219828646Koko, who was infertile, was seen attempting to teach sign language to her new kittens. When her beloved cat All Ball died and she was shown new kittens to pick from her reply was "All of them," proving even gorillas have woman moments.
>>219818056Lmao
Rick James, at Eddie Murphy's house.
>>219828646>her books changed after her handler died Did they? If you are still here can you provide more info
>>219828333Because the universal translator is a plot device that doesn't make sense as a functional piece of technology. Why doesn't it translate certain klingon words and phrases like p'tahk? Are the Klingons speaking English and then slip into Klingon for certain words or does the translator not translate certain words for some reason? And how would it work if you're trying to go undercover, like Picard on Romulus in unification? Wouldn't your lips be out of sync identifying you as a non native?
>>219812864uplifted by salarians
OJ Simpson upon finding Nicole with Ron Goldman.
Donald Trump at Epstein’s Island.
Matthew Perry enjoying his hot tub
>>219829080Watch the video linked in >>219828492 it's not very long and the dude is desperately trying to give Keller the benefit of the doubt but he can't
>>219812937Trans woman, his regret peaking
>>219829109And who pumps the tires on the Batmobile?
socialising is really not that important to society, its very over blown. in fact they would have far less retards because they'd evolve to just get on with their lives without needing to discuss everything and have endless beauracracy etc. its like the difference between working in a womens office and a mans physical labour job. you don't get hand held or lectured you just do things. when communication does need to happen they use references and get eachother. they're based, actually.
>>219815765If it had been me and my kids teaching at that retard school it wouldn't have gone down like it did. There would have been a lot of marks all over that chalkboard and then me saying "Fuck it, kids, lets go get some fries"
>>219812916underrated
>>219814461Two girls, one cup
>>219812864All the others communicate normally.This one just has space autism
>>219812937Most human language is just a slightly more complex version of that
>>219828690I always thought the surname "Davis" was Irish, he didn't have any mick blood?
Crackhead, his baby in the microwave.
>>219812864Terell, his phaser eaten. His atoms unfurled.
>>219831260>I always thought the surname "Davis" was IrishIt's Welsh
>>219831397The realest nigga ITTPaul Winfield played both characters
>>219831397Khan his joy denied, his enemy marooned.
How did those retarded guys who kidnapped Geordie achieve space travel
>>219828744Yeah the whole point of the episode is to explore the concept of just how much of language isn't really "noun=thing, verb=action" but complex bits of interplay cultural knowledge that has nothing to do with what is technically being spoken.
>>219829109It was such a dumb solution to a problem Star Trek 6 had already solved with the court scene, showing that the characters are speaking whatever language is appropriate and we are only hearing everyone speak English at all times for convenience.
>>219832289Probably stole it the same way they stole Geordie to fix their shit. Hell the Klingons canonically never invented Warp Drive and just looted it off some invaders who tried to conquer them. The Ferengi similarly bought their first warp drive of a passing trader.
>>219832468Hunt for Red October did this well too by showing a little bit of the Russians speaking Russian and then it switches to English for the sake of the audience. Fun fact, they use they word Armageddon for the switch since its the same word in both English and Russian.
Janny, when the off-topic thread was posted.
>>219832191So, no REAL difference. He's still a subhuman celt.
>>219828492The fact that he list so many other people who were deaf/blind and learned to communicate and write if anything suggests that the story is highly probable.The quantity of her output is large but so what. She was an outlier. There is no doubt she could have been taught to read, write and communicate.With nothing else to do with read and write it does not surprise me she spent all her time doing just that. Could she have been a puppet to her translator who controlled her education, sure, but that is true of everyone.
>>219829109I agree, if this race's language was untranslatable it means that every other alien language would be similarly untranslatable. It is an interesting idea for an episode but it definitely breaks canon because as another anon points out, every language uses idiom and the translator is able to capture their semantic meaning.The dilemma in the ep is centered around the concept of linguistic semantics; words and phrases have connotations that go beyond their explicit dictionary definitions and exist in a matrix of associated meaning. idioms are an example of semantic associations completely divorced from their word-by-word translation, but any decent translator will be able to pick apart idioms by cross analysis with other examples. if the universal translator was unable to parse the semantic meanings in picrel, it wouldn't have been able to do the same for any other alien species. if you used translating software in the 90s or early 2000s they did the same 1:1 translations without parsing for semantics, but now more modern LLM models are able to do soA better alternative would have been to encounter a species that communicates via pheromones, frequencies, smells or colours; something that a audio-based translator couldn't pick up
Waingro, when he had to get it on
>>219832549Janny, his wage tripled.
The universal translator should have picked up on the memes even quicker than Picard did. It would have to be a basic feature to turn sayings into equivalent sayings when translating.
>>219833203There's a couple of Voyager episodes where they can't communicate with the translator. The one where the bug attached itself to Torres and another one where the aliens are mute but the doctor rigs a tricorder to play music and they communicate with it.
