I don't get why this movie's so controversial. It's genuine capekino, one of the few. I wish those characters existed outside of this one storyline because it's one of the most interesting superhero settings out there, 100x better than the upteenth "subverting the genre" attempt.
Because it’s shit compared to the graphic novel
>>220002670It's kino OP.It's just a bunch of autistic comic book nerds bitching.
>>220002670I saw this in theaters, and then again a few times on DVD... I really don't remember shit about it besides Mr Manhattan being Mr Manhattan and Rorschach being Rorschach.
>>220002946I mean those are the best parts, but you seriously don't remember the Comedian being an asshole?
It's complete and utter SHIT compared to it's source material.It's MASSIVELY obvious that Snyder had no actual understanding of the core themes of the original story, because he completely misses them and even works against them.It's bred a massive legion of Watchmen "fans" who have a completely alien idea of what Watchmen actually is. Then they try to argue with you, as if they do know.
>>220003016I shit you not, ZERO recollection of other characters or any scenes.
>>220003021It’s a shot for shot reproduction of the source material until the end.
>>220003069impressive considering that you've watched it multiple times, I guess it means you didn't like it very much
>>220003076Simply lol.
>>220002670Dr manhattan is my fav superhero ever
>>220002695 (((you)))>>220003021 (((you)))>>220002702>It's just a bunch of autistic comic book nerds bitching.And the only good movie Snyder ever made.
>>220003146The only decent film he's ever made in his entire life is 300. Everything else is tripe at best.
"Shot for shot!" screams the Snyderfan.Okay, but a large part of the comic's appeal was Dave Gibbons' artwork, and that's not represented in the film. It's replaced with Snyder's early-00s music video visual style. The text is Watchmen, but the picture is nu-metal.
>>220003255It's not shot-for-shot at all, to begin with.
>>220002695It's literally the most faithful and straightforward comic adaptation EVER.
>GNAll your 'heroes' are pieces of shit and your worship of them only causes you and them continuous suffering.>movieOMG aren't these guys so keeeeeeewl!The movie is a parody or in-universe adaptation. Absolutely stunning in its reversal of the theme.
>>220003194Hahahahahahaha>No
>>220002670The whole point of the comic was that "real-life superheroes" would be just a bunch of autistic losers in silly costumes. Snyder made them into cool action edgy heroes instead
Ozymandias plan in the movie was miles better than in the comics
>>220003255Dave Gibbons himself said Snyder nailed his aesthetic. There's even a video of him saying this.
>>220003335Literally all of them were pieces of shit in the movie. No clue what you're complaining about
>>220003335I actually feel like the movie is far more cynical than the graphic novel. You are right about the "look how FUCKING COOL this shit is!" thing, though.To me, the cynical aspects of Watchmen (graphic novel) are backdrops and build-up for what ends up being quite a hopeful story with largely optimistic messages. It genuinely pisses me off when Watchmen is mentioned in the same vein a garbage like "the boys" or "brat pack". Those are truly disgusting cynical pieces of edgy shite.
>>220003255>chk'dYour little brother is gay
It's funny how people attack the action of the film when the abundance of action was the entire point. Snyder was magnifying the absence of reality that most comic book films of the time were ignoring. He is literally quoted saying this.
>>220003432I don't give a fuck what he said about it in his dotage. I go by the evidence of my own undeluded eyes.
>>220003415That's not the point at all. Moore has literally, specifically rebutted that interpretation several times.
>>220003311So? It’s still shit
>>220003425No.
>>220003514>Aliens
>>220003503But not the evidence of the artist you're complaining about? Schizo
>>220003505Quote verbatim from Moore:>in Watchmen, all of the characters are flawed in some way. There is no way that they work in terms of the conventional idea of the hero. Their presence is more of a problem for the world that they inhabit than any kind of ray of salvation or hope. With Watchmen, I was actually exploring the real-world ramifications of these characters and ideas.
>>220003529Yeah, it makes more sense that the world would unite against an alien threat. The idea that the world would unite because an american super weapon (that they deployed against other countries) went rogue is beyond stupid.
It's funny as age pushes on, all the criticisms for this film always fall flat as outdated opinions. >Snyder didnt understand the source material Talks about it pretty accurately in the commentary of the film and the BTS features on the blu ray>action basedThat was the entire point >use of popular songsNearly all songs were in the GN, including even ride of the valkrye >didn't get the colors rightDave Gibbons himself said Snyder understood the atmosphere he helped create. Not even in a public statement. There's videos of him at speaking events saying this.
>>220003554From the same interview:>Taking apart the conceptual apparatus of the superhero… it’s not rocket science… but putting it all back together in a more benign and more transcendent form that works – a more flexible form, a better, improved form – that is something which is a bit more tricky.
>>220003569>The idea that the world would unite because an american super weapon (that they deployed against other countries) went rogue is beyond stupid.Nah. Manhattan is world ending threat more dangerous than aliens. He's equal to type 2 civ ayys.
>>220003579>Not even in a public statement. There's videos of him at speaking events saying this.
>>220003579>Dave Gibbons himself said Snyder understood the atmosphere he helped create.Yet it is unmistakably a Zack Snyder film, cut from the same visual cloth as all his other films.
>>220002670Watchmen was good and all, but it is responsible for all that "Subverting expectations" shit that has clogged up hollywood since. They tried to chase that film and recreate the hype/money/fame but never could. The Boys and Invincible wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Watchmen. Take that as a good or bad thing.
Not any previous anon, but I stopped putting stock into artists comments about their older works. That just means the check cleared or didn't clear.
>>220003481The action of the film actively works against major aspects of the comic. The whole point is that everyone, other than Manhattan, is a normal human being. They're not these stupid giga-matrix fighters the movie portrays them to be.In the comic, it's actually a really insane moment when Ozymandias catches the bullet with his hand. It's a massive character moment for the story. It goes to show that he has essentially reached an absurd level of human perfection physically and mentally. Which is very interesting in contrast to the actions he takes throughout the story, that being his grand scheme to massacre millions of people for "the greater good" (which is something that is essentially plainly stated to be wrong and born of paranoid fear and overreaction on his part. You wouldn't know this from watching the film, of course.>>220003606Regardless of that being true or not, the idea that people would be willing to let America get away with this and unite with them is comedic already. The fake alien makes more sense.
>>220003579The violence has no point. Snyder just likes slow-motion violence. All his movies are like that. He may try yo pretend that there's some deeper meaning to it, but the fact he always does it shows the truth. He's like an edgy teen trying to sound deep.
>>220003636https://youtu.be/QGW4N3k_hkk?si=Sp5lT5eD_04rbKQvAround the 4 minute markNot like he was saying this to promote the movie either.
>>220003646Watchmen didn't invent the whole "subverting expectations" trope, you retard. Stop watching Critical Drinker.
>>220003646>The Boys and Invincible wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Watchmenthe source material of both predates the Watchmen movie, maybe it's true that The Boys would have never been adapted but Invincible is by The Walking Dead guy so it had high chances of being adapted eventually
>>220003716>The violence has no point.Did you even read the comic at all? Hah. Have you just been reading other people's third-party ideas?
>>220003641Not really. Everyone can agree it's a 1:1 shot of the comic. He even discusses changing the ending was made to be interpretation and up for discussion just like the final page of the comic "I leave it all up in your hands"He literally says this in the commentary. It plays off that motiff of having the audience decipher however they want from the ending, knowing there would be backlash.
>>220002670my only issue with that film is the stupid ending, no way soviets and americans would reconcile after a rogue american asset nuked a bunch of their cities
>>220003686America was fucked too. There is no other way but unite because even if America was behind the attack you wouldn't able to do anything but kneel. The scale of attack was above potential nuclear war. It is not comedic at all.
>>220003747>InvincibleInvincible is actually a RE-construction of the superhero genre. It is both the same, and the opposite of Watchmen. The same, because it uses almost pure tropes (successfully). The opppsite, because it uses them to bring new life into a singular complete work, not endless commentary on older heroes. It's actually the "bright" new work that Moore predicted would re-synthesize what he brought apart.
>>220003716>>220003686Again. The action and violence is in the same vein if why moore made the novel. As quoted by snyder >When people saw our version of the Ozymandias costume on the Internet, some were like, ”It’s like a Joel Schumacher Batman movie! The costume has nipples! That’s crazy!” And I’m like, ”Yeah, but that’s the point!” With their comic, Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons were saying, ”Superheroes are kinda funky, aren’t they?” We build upon that with a movie that acknowledges that superhero movies have affected pop culture.He's acknowledging the carnage that has been absent from comic book films of the time and presenting them in their raw state.
>>220003788I never read the various spinoffs, but I remember really liking the ending of that comic
>>220003752You seem to think that if you have Word of God from Gibbons, that means no one is allowed to disagree. But you're wrong. I can't be bothered to edit together side-by-sides of the film and the comic, but if you carry out that exercise in your mind's eye, I think you can see the gulf of artistic difference between the two.
>>220003815He chose the wrong adaption to do that in.
>>220003843>I think you can see the gulf of artistic difference between the two.Put it into words, at least?
>>220003146>>220003194dawn of the dead to sucker punch is ok by me i guess but first two movies the most
>>220003843>can't be botheredWell then you concede?
Another thread proving, there's no true Scotsman.
>>220002670This is the kind of movie you watch in your earlier twenties to feel you have good taste in movies but once you grow up you realize there are maybe 3 memorable scenes at best and the rest of the movie is that superhero girl bitching the whole time. >>220003425Trvke
>>220003771In the movie it's actually blamed on aliens.
>>220003924>Put it into wordsWhat do you want, a fucking dissertation? They don't look alike. Even allowing for the inevitable shift that occurs when adapting from one medium to another, Snyder's Watchmen takes a direction of its own. A style much closer to 300 and Batman v Superman than anything drawn by Gibbons. And if Gibbons won't admit that, he's probably just trying to stay in the good graces of the Hollywood director. There are more career opportunities with Hollywood than there are with a misanthropic hermit cunt like Alan Moore.
>>220004114It's hilarious cause they literally do a side by side comparison in that video kek You're just desperate to gatekeeper an opinion that is already outdated; as if your opinion is the prestigious one over the literal creator of the images. Kek
>>220003865I disagree. A comic book deconstructing the comic industry is akin to a comic book film deconstructing the film industry. People just parade the same obtuse arguments from YouTubers because they don't have any integrity themselves.
Because it's ultimately poorly-made. I'm sympathetic to the limitations Snyder faced, but the changes he made utterly undermined the film's central thesis (which is the trolley problem, a fairly easy concept to grasp but which somehow eludes 90% of the Americans who've seen/read the work). I'll offer one example:>rorschach is ambushed at moloch's apartment>he's forced to jump from the third floor>literally "the superman falling to earth", it could not be more plain>he crashes to the surface to join the rest of us mortals>instantly gets his fucking ass handed to him while being mocked for his size and stenchBut ZaCh SnYdeR™ changed it to:>KARATE EXPLOSION YOWEE ZOWEE... to say nothing of the extranarrative scene where he simply disappears while a cop is staring directly at him in Blake's apartment, but the absolute worst of it is making Osterman the villain, which thus disincentivizes the Soviets from interstate cooperation as he is obviously no threat to them. That was the point of the books and now has no meaning.
>>220002670Its decent. Malin Ackerman bitch ruined every scene she was in. Terrible actress.
>>220004236Fundamentally changing the theme of a story you are adapting to "deconstruct" something or "make a statement" about something in a similar vein is honestly pseud shit that is only done or liked by complete midwits. It's the same kind of thing the retards who enjoy the Star Wars sequels say. How amazing they are because they reference a bunch of old films "just like the OT did". "It's good because the director was influenced by this outside thing, who cares if it makes the actual film worse".
>>220004177>as if your opinion is the prestigious one over the literal creatorAnd the creator must always have the final say! You're not allowed to like Lynch's Dune, because Lynch disowned it. You're not allowed to like Natural Born Killers, because Tarantino disowned it. You're not allowed to like Strangers on a Train, because Hitchcock considered it a failure. And so on and so forth.Maybe you should get that creator-cock out of your mouth and start thinking for yourself. At the very least you could put your eyeballs to work and see the obvious.
>>220003311And it still somehow missed literally every point.Not to mention how the entire movie is predicated on the biggest plot hole in film>oh no! My nemesis has discovered [nothing] and is now mentally unstable! therefore I must kill him to keep him from telling others about [nothing]
>>220004236There was nothing for watchmen to “deconstruct” when it came out. The comic had millions of pages worth of trends, themes, and characters to work with, but practically none of that would make it into film.
>>220002695It was actually never a graphic novel. You mean trade paperback.>>220003311But it is visibly not.>>220004424You're almost kind of close yet not so much to how the basic plot of the books is senseless, but it's actually>oh no i a member of nixon's inner circle have discovered his biggest enemy is plotting an interdimensional terror attack and instead of getting nixon to give me seal teams atlantic to go and smoke this dude and steal his shit and make our own osterman, i will now get drunk and cry about it to some retard i haven't seen in 40 years
>>220003311Superficially so, by a director who clearly didn't understand the source material at all, but he liked the costumes and funny one-liners, and he put them in the movie so that's ok
>>220004542Blake was already cracking due to the time he spent with literally God in vietnam, so finding out that the richest man in the world has a island he removed from the charts, that he filled with artists and horror writers to feed psychics information they could beam into the brain of a giant psychic squid vegetable that would broadcast everything in its brain to the entire world upon its death, even if he discovered that much of the project, was his “yeah I’m done” moment.Whereas in the movie, there is literally nothing for him to discover. He is unstable for no reason and killed for no reason.
>>220003815Personally, it always feels like Snyder is vaguely gesturing towards something. Like he points at the direction for things to consider but doesn’t give a thesis statement. Like, how does he want us to think they are “funky”? What am I to make of the Schumacher Ozymandis design and the vague allusions to Schumacher’s homosexually, Oxymandis’s homosexuality, and Batman and Robin? Or what am I to make of the dialed up violence? Snyder is showing us superheroes existing would be more violent than is typically portrayed sure, but how does he want us to feel about it? Because I think I agree with anon here >>220003716, Snyder would have us think the gore and violence is cool, which is a starkly different perspective from the original comics. And going back to the Schumacher connection, I think he’s really just hammering home the gay web that exists between these characters instead of actually saying something about it beyond acknowledging its existence.
>>220003815That only works if you ignore tim burton’s batman, blade, spawn, id even throw in the matrix (not the sequels mind you) due to its hard ties to the invisibles, where the movie make a very clear point about how the “heroes” are casually breaking every bone in another human’s body.
>>220004542>>220004650comedian was already jaded way before vietnam and believed that humanity is doomed so he was just having fun while it lasted while mocking them at the same time. but after figuring out ozymandia's plan he realised that the world can be saved and someone is ready to go to isnane lenghts to achieve that, which makes blake's entire worldview shatter. it's like a nihilist committing casually evil things just to make fun of everyone meets an idealist committing methaphysically evil things to reach a noble goal
>>220005060No. Performative “it’s all a joke” nihilism breaks down when the “punchline” isn’t expected. Not sure what eceleb you downloaded this from, but you really need to realize all ecelebs are morons. Even if you are genuinely stupid enough to buy that read, there is literally nothing for Blake to discover in the movie that would imply anything could or would stop all out nuclear war.
>>220004311>fundamentally changing the themesThe themes are still in tact; in fact they are amplified to represent a commerary on comic book films opposed to just the comic book industry. Only midwits deny that or got filtered kek
>>220004383I never said that? Fun fact, Herbert himself said Lynch got his themes right and loved his vision. Lynch just didnt like it cause of the studio interference. Big difference
What bugs me is that this one guy here treats Watchmen as some sort of layered, complex, genius piece of literature but also says that the author that created it is wrong about the movie being good.
>>220004518>there was nothing for Watchmen to deconstruct These are the retards who claim Snyder didnt understand the GN btw
>>220004613He literally acknowledges that it's 5 minutes before midnight in the commentary. Holy shit you guys are dense. All he did was make the splat more realistic which was the point of the entire film. People who make this shit without comprehension are desperate.
>>220005188Lol, you don't know what "theme" even means. Being commentary on whatever isn't a theme.
>>220005031It was more so the modern comic book films of the time; alas TDK trilogy, x men films, Raimi spiderman etc etc. I dont think the 3 you listed are apart of the vast majority he is criticizing. More so the same can be said about comics of the time when Moore initially wrote it
>>220005292Clearly you dont. Even snyder himself adresses the themes pretty clearly in the commentary and BTS; it just makes you sound stupid desu. You literally have zero idea what you are talking about. Which is why you are desperate to attack me instead. Kek
>>220005264NTA but Gibbons also said the HBO show was great. There is a reason why Moore stopped talking to him. As long as you give him a check, he will praise anything.
>>220003076Until it's not
>>220002670It’s okay
>>220005347Except Gibbons didnt say this in a public release. Nor even to promote the movie. I hated the HBO show but the colors and atmosphere did feel watchmen-esque to say the least.
The issue with the movie is not the movie itself. As a adaptation of the actual story it's fine, it's just the graphic novel works so much better on so many levels. The paneling, the sprinkled easter eggs, the art, the choice of colors. It's a story that takes advantage of the medium.
>>220005242Anon there wasn’t even a dozen superhero movies before watchmen came out.
>>220003432And James Cameron thinks the AI slop 4K remaster of True Lies was his true vision all along
>>220005303>the modern comic book films of the timeIron man and tdk came out 8 and 6 months prior to watchmen. So watchmen would’ve been deep in production before they’d release. Meaning you’re claiming watchmen was a deconstruction of batman begins, ang lee’s hulk and…
>>220005398You know you can be proven wrong by a simple google search right? Theres a reason why theyre a part of pop culture intensively
>>220005465Which still doesnt disregard their relevance to pop culture
>>220005340It doesn’t matter what someone says outside of a movie.
>>220005467Every time I’ve named a superhero movie watchmen could’ve been “deconstructing” I’ve gotten “well not those so much,” so fuck off. You’re still trapped dying on the hill where you’re trying to insist a handful of movies being “deconstructed” is equivalent to the material Moore had to deconstruct with the comic.
I'm not trying to discredit Gibbons, but the true creator of Watchmen is Moore. That guy went full schizo autistic rampage while writing it. There is a reason why all attempts at copying Watchmen or makinh a sequel/prequel have failed. Without Moore, there is no Watchmen.
>>220005486It disregards their relevance to watchmen.
>>220004650No, it was the same essential scheme, just with a different mechanism. Either way, although the film version makes no sense, the villain's plot is still present, and the most likely result is for Blake to report it up the chain of command and take action to kill the guy at the top of Nixon's enemies list and steal his tech.You have the Vietnam calculation totally backward. It was Osterman who observed Blake in Vietnam and concluded he simply didn't care about problems of morality, something stated overtly in his narration. Blake on the other hand was the one who noticed Osterman drifting out of touch with humanity, something he said almost verbatim to Osterman in the EM club after he shot that pregnant woman.
>>220005264Nah Snyder fucked upIt's probably the most embarrassing inadvertent public admission of stupidity in a major piece of art ever seen
>>220005060No, not at all. The utopia Veidt planned to build had no need for men like Blake, something Adrian said out loud during the confrontation at Karnak. Blake's horror at the plot is understandable for that reason, it's his reaction to it which doesn't make sense, so you're like wrong squared.
>>220005615>a different mechanismThere is no mechanism at all in the movie.
>>220004542No one human being that has ever walked the face of the earth and used the words trade paperback ever.
>>220002670Honestly it´s not even that much of a capeshit flick. It´s more of a character driven drama with some neo noir elements in it. Dr Manhattan is the only one with actual powers of the whole bunch too... It´s almost surprising to see the concept work as a live action.If you ask me, with the exception of Burton´s Batman, the best comic book adaptations are the ones not focused on grown people wearing spandex unitards and capes. Stuff like Sin City or Dick Tracy are where it´s at.
>>220002670Because it was made by synderHe causes immense seethe and irrational hatred amongst the comic book manchildren for some reason
Why are people still seething about this movie over a decade after it came out? If you don't like it then don't watch it. Watchmen isn't even that good compared to miracleman or like twenty other comics. Read something else already, you're not in middle school anymore.
>>220005241You can write great dialogue and still be wrong about things. Alan Moore is a magician who refuses to watch movies because he thinks they'll curse him.
>>220003788>It's actually the "bright" new work that Moore predicted would re-synthesize what he brought apart.Grim considering how shit invincible is compared to literally anything else. At least a comic like Nemesis is shocking because of how dumb it is but invincible is literally just lazy trope after lazy trope being used to create relationship drama.
>>220006444No one remembers this movie. It was a box-office flop
>>220003255Ok but it's a movie, not a comic book. Go read some of Dave Gibbon's other comics if you want his artwork. What even is this argument?
All it changed was replacing an inter dimensional glob monster with nukes
It's frustrating because it has some REALLY well done parts and generally plays well to Snyder's strengths, yet as an adaptation it almost entirely misses the point of the source material and makes some very poor-thought-out plot changes that make the whole thing pretty nonsensical.The opening montage and the Dr. Manhattan origin montage are the two best things Snyder's ever done.
>Boring comic book >Snyder makes it into a boring movie >He even adapts the boring pirate ship parts everyone skipped in the directors cut >Nerds cry and shit their pants because aside from the dialogue and some interesting characters the movie is bad and boring (just like the comic)Exactly the same thing happened with Dune
>>220006517>Snyder's Watchmen is the gold standard for comic book movies, because it's a shot for shot adaptation with the Dave Gibbons seal of approval!>W-what, you're not convinced? Uh, well why don't you just go read the comic book if you love it so much. No one here said the film was strictly faithful and shot for shot.
>>220006741Who are you quoting Live action movies aren't comic books
>>220006788>Who are you quotingI'm aggregating pro-Snyder camp in this thread and every other. As you well know.
The script was literally written by Solid Snake if you didn't know
>>220006474Yet you're in here complaining about it...
>>220006914That explains why it's so clunky and tone-deaf.
>>220004056You mean in the comic. In the comic it's aliens, complete with a fake alien corpse that Veidt created. In the movie it's blamed on Manhattan, but Manhattan is firmly associated with US so logically it would be blamed on US.
>>220002670Watchmen the comic is a deconstruction of the superhero genre and how it is an inherent fascistic fantasy that lets small, pathetic men pretend they have some kind of control over an uncaring world Watchmen the movie is an unironic superhero power fantasy by a man with fascist leanings who actually thinks it's epic if you could just put on a mask and kill anyone you don't like.
>>220006544Its the turning point in his career, he still had his youthful talent for visuals but it's when he started to believe his own bullshit that he is a competent writer. Now he's lost his visual flair and writes embarrassing nonsense.
>>220002670>It's genuine capekino, one of the fewTrue. This and Nolan's Bat trilogy still reign supreme.
>>220006367>bad movie? It’s actually good!>no>omg it’s been a decade stop seething
