>kills you and creates a copy
there is already a star trek sex with shran thread
It would have been more simple if Thomas riker didn't exist.Fuck that episode
>>220071099I remember making a thread like this back in around 2014 to 2015 or so not sure on the exact date. I'm convinced I was the first one to make this kind of thread because i recall it hitting bump limit pretty quickly due to the meta physical arguments that ensued. Does it in fact kill you and create a copy? What is "you" though, are you just your physical body? Are there greater aspects to our consciousness, is consciousness local or are we just a fractal of the universe experiencing itself because why not?
>>220071608Continuing on this line of thought I believe we are in fact an individual piece of a greater larger consciousness, and the universe is just a great intelligent fractal of love and divine intellect simulating experiences to infinity.
>>220071099Redditors unironically believe that the copy is just as much you as the real you, because the soul doesn't exist and so individual consciousness doesn't either.
>>220071644that doesn't explain blacks or indians tho
>>220071099They really should ban the transporter. https://youtu.be/Ro_QpDJX-Sk
>>220071608Dude the breaking bad episode with Badger and Skinny Pete discussing it was way before that my zoomnigga
>>220071696The craziest thing is that energy of a soul can be measured in Star trek
>>220071696Soul goes with you
>>220071543>no active series in productionrealistically that general should no longer exist as well
>>220071734I'm talking about specifically making a thread discussing it on /tv/
For me it’s when they transport random aliens they meet without explaining the technology or determining if it jives with their beliefs. You can make the case that humans have evolved beyond ego and don’t care they’re killing themselves (bizarre, but that’s how Roddenberry wanted human morality and ethics to feel to us the viewer), but not telling other species what the process entails just wreaks of complete denial
>>220071696>>220071792I don't believe the "soul" or conscious awareness is a physical thing or something that is easily described using semantic language from a materialist perspective. The soul transcends our physical reality and by extension understanding of it.
>>220071832you also lose your soul if you drive over 35mph
>>220071874And why's that
>have a belief that a transporter kills you and creates a copy>get transported>believe i am now a new person>because i am
>>220071895just happens
>>220071605If Riker committed a murder 10 years before that sode, who catches the charge?
>>220071930Nobody because the perpetrator of the crime is dead.
>>220071605There's also the Scotty/Dyson sphere episode where Scotty "survives" 75 years by copying his data into the pattern buffer, aka the photocopier. And he didn't go mad from boredom or being stuck motionless in some parallel dimension, nor die of thirst or starvation, he lost no mass or anything else, he never aged. He was copied exactly as he was 75 years before. So they whole "Barclay didn't die because he saw monsters" episode is proven wrong more than once.You take the transporter, you die. There's no arguing it.
If it kills you and makes a new one why doesn't it make you effectively immortal?
No, but really, how could your consciousness/soul also be transferred? You'd have to answer questions like what is the top speed of a soul and stuff like that.
Galaxy quest did it the best
>>220071967It can while you're inside it, see >>220071962
>>220071099Why doesn't it keep making copies
>>220072008It does when it malfunctions.
>>220072008Same reason why your printer doesn't print the same page 100 times unless you accidentally fuck up and tell it to or there's an error.
>>220071099They lost the coin toss?
>>220072296Soma is not a coin toss. “You” always stay behind
*loses the coin toss*
>>220071962>You take the transporter, you die. There's no arguing it.They tried to in various episodes to make it seem like some kind of beam(worm hole) that moves you. Troi is aware of being in a wall at one point. It's not consistent. That said, far more episodes centered on transporters and use of it seem to indicate it is copying your data and cloning you. It's how that fix a medical issue in season 2 of TNG. just respawn everyone from before they had the virus, oh but upload their current stats.
>>220071988How did Galaxy Quest do it my nigger?
>>220073493>>220071832>>220071792>>220071770>>220071696Even if you don't believe in souls (I don't), the transporter creating a duplicate is a problem for your conscious mind. If I enter the teleporter, am dissassembled at the atomic level, and then reassembled light years away using a completely new set of atoms, I clearly die in the original location even if my duplicate possesses all of my memories. I get that it would be indiscernable to someone else (anyone meeting the duplicate), but my life/experience would end as soon as I was dissassembled. Which is to say, the level of fidelity of the duplicate is irrelevant to whether or not your conscious mind survives the teleportation process
>>220074047>and then reassembled light years awayIt definitely doesn't do this. Star Trek has always tried to hold on to the idea that it cannot make you from nothing. You can't use the data to just constantly make new Kirks. It needs the original matter. Then they cloned Riker and ruined this.
>>220071099There was an episode of the new Outer Limits in the 80s or early 90s that actually dealt with this scenario. A guy goes to transport like always, but something goes wrong and his original self isn't killed. So there are now two of them and they want to kill or convince him to allow them to kill himself so the "transported" version can live alone. It's creepy as fuck.
>>220074388That was "Think Like a Dinosaur" which had Scott McNeil do the voice of a raptor looking dinosaur in a similar way that he did Dinobot on Beast Warshttps://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8gtm0f
>>220074458OH dude thanks! I remember this episode. Was my favorite of that series. Was more of a Monsters/Tales from the Darkside guy, but this really stuck with me.
>>220074521I remember it cause Im a big Beast Wars fan. A lot of those canadian actors pop up on Outer Limits.
>>220073340That's what pathetic tossers like you want everyone to believe. I'm so good I can win the coin toss 90% of the time.
>>220071099Its fictional. It literally magically moves you across space without killing you. If it was a killer photocopier it would never be used like that.
>>220073340>“You” always stay behindNah I'd win the toss
>>220076558>t.brainletThere's no toss. If youre the one getting copied you dont go anywhere.
>>220074284They didn't clone Riker exactly. It was an accident. It was a freak accident one in a million chance where a clone was created.
>>220076603>says the jealous unskilled tosser that always loses
>>220076846one in a million is quite a lot for the usage rate of the technology
>>220076876>Says the literal 1 day old retard that has defects and will break down soon
>>220076846>>220077019>~3–5 billion car trips happen globally each dayThats 3000 clones a day on current day Earth. So you multiply that by a few hundred/thousand/s for Star Trek? That seems like an extremely high and problematic amount of clones. What do they do with the hundreds of thousands of accidental clones that build up every few days?
>>220071099Couldn't the transporter spit out a healthier version of you if it was programmed too. Just save a scan of your body at peak health and that's what it always references.
>>220071099it doesn't make copies, it dematerialises and rematerialises the literal matter you are made up of.
this happens to you every time you fall asleep and wake up
>>220077193They become section 31 agents
this happens every moment. your brain is like a spinning record and your conscious experience is the music. it's a wave, not a material thing that persists. splitting hairs about which mind is 'yours' is like fussing over which identical stick of dynamite caused the explosion. neither of you would notice a break in your conscious experience because there was no continuity to begin with. your mind needs time to function which means it's a product of a material thing. your soul is something else entirely and equating the two just tells me you're not ready to discuss philosophy with anyone but other children.
>>220080865>>220081329not the same thing. in those scenarios you dont risk a clone being made. youll never wake up next to a clone of you. this shows how the transporter technology is fundamentally different
>>220080370And in so doing, kills you. An organism's composition changes gradually over time, but what is constitutive of the given organism as a physical process is that these changes occur over an interval, above all continuously, and in an unbroken fashion. The reason why the OP's suggestion is correct is because teleportation (instantaneous travel through space) constitutes an instantaneous break in both time and space, or in other words: a cut. Cuts have a way of killing.>>220081329It's true that no one ever steps into the same river twice (your essential point) but you still need to be shoved into the teleporter with Geena Davis and Jeff Goldblum and see how you like it for being insufferable.
>>220076308>If it was a killer photocopier it would never be used like that.People are retarded. If it was socially acceptable then there would be plenty people who would use it without thinking about it.
>>220071099>sucks his own dick in front of you>makes this thread againOP is far out of this world
This idea goes farther back than Star Trek. The Prestige comes to mind as a progenitor of the philosophical and metaphysical issues regarding energy transmission of living beings. Is Danton committing a murder every night if he is only killing himself? Did the original die the first time the device was used? Star Trek has always been inconsistent about the specifics of science fantasy technology because if they had to play by hard rules it would decrease the amount of stories the writers could create.
>>220076308>magically moves you across space without killing youHow do you know?How could you know?> If it was a killer photocopier it would never be used like that.People get "stored in the pattern buffer", it creates hideous mergings of people, it creates duplicate clones of people, there's microscopic alien life in the space between teleportations, if power cuts out at any point or the signal is interrupted you die or become "degraded"... these are all in universe problems and people still use it.
>>220082411>farther back than Star Trek. The Prestige1966 vs 2006? Get a grip zoomie.
>>220071608we've been talking about this since the 90s lil gup
>>220082266>If people were fine with killing themselves they would kill themselves!
>>220082485that movie is set in the 1890's so it clearly predates stark trek that is set in the 24th century duh
>>220071099That's not true teleportation.
>>220082669True teleportation has never been tried.
>>220082607I'm talking about social pressure and socially acceptable behavior. You sound retarded enough that you would probably use one too if your friends told you to, or if it was a requirement for a job.
>>220071608>is consciousness local or are we just a fractal of the universe experiencing itselfwelcome to the "hard problem", aptly named because no nigger has ever come up with a stlatisfsctory answerponder this, a man can undergo a hemispherectomy (total removal of one side of the brain excluding the bottommost part connecting with the cerebellum and brainstem while retaining much of his "personality", social relationships, favorite foods, recall of memories of all kinds more or less, etc. Hardly so debilitating that such a person could be argued they are "lacking their soul" like someone in a permanent vegetative coma after severe hypoxia and massive brain death, kept alive only with medical tech or someone born with microcephalySo it follows that even if the physical brain and its processes produce the realm of consciousness it appears that this realm'a cibtinuiry is distinct from any specific material region or source in the brain but is reliant on more of a "peer 2 peer" means of manifestation from fleshy complexes of electrically charge neural cells. So imagine a process that rapidly divides the brain into several or even dozens of chunks. For lack of an exquisite zero-trauma example let's use a buckshot load passing through a man's skull, for a very brief moment, though his brain is in many seperate connected pieces with some flying through the air outside of his skull, are not all those pieces an instance of this man's personality, or soul? While they are not cellularly dead and continue to transit electrical impulses are they not an indepedant mind?
>>220082726>I'm talking about social pressure and socially acceptable behavior. Ending your life will never be socially acceptable you fucking autist>You sound retarded enough that you would probably use one too if your friends told you to, or if it was a requirement for a job.Why are you projecting so hard? Who are you arguing with?
>>220082873Yeah it would just be briefly fractal consciousnesses of mine before shutting down. I'm not sure we have an "experience" at that speed though. It's very fast.Is there any sci-fi that portrays a man's brain being cut into chunks but all the pieces are kept alive and conscious?
>>220071099Why no one weaponized that stuff? You can create clone armies on demand, or even entire clone societies. Expansionist potential is practically limitless.
>>220071099That's why I don't use them
>>220083474Cutting off your cock because you feel like a girl has become socially acceptable. Slavery was acceptable for the longest time and still is in parts of Africa. Euthanasia was and is accepted in many places.
>>220084405It will never be socially acceptable to die in order to take a taxi. You're fucking weird dude.
>>220071099a transporter is just a replicator with constraints removed, used exclusively to replicate people.
>>220080370No. It makes a scan of matter being transported, hcanges that matter into energy, then from that energy creates matter in a pattern taken from the scan. There is literally a data buffer where the scan is stored, mentioned multiple times and used in several plot points.
>>220071099not my problem.
>>220072270>accidentally
>>220071696The soul does exist dunce, you are your soul, its just inhabiting a meatsuit right now.
>>220071696You can't verifiably prove the current *You* was always the current *You*, so it's ultimately a faulty premise.
>>220082533I was talking about the first person to make the thread on 4chan specfically
>>220071716ever had a hangover?
>>220084405>>220084508I just want to say that you're both fucking retards arguing around the actual point and lowering everyone's IQ as they witness this
>>220071734You have the movie prestige where killing clones was a central moral quandary in the movie
>>220087922>I'm the first person to talk about a very popular topic on one of the most famous sci-fi series of all time, on the most popular image-board
>>220088498Someone has to be. Why not me?
>>220088537Because 2014 is extreme newfag territory retard
>>220071696soul is astrology for incel man
>>220071608It doesn't really even need to come down to metaphysics or philosophy, because if you are instantaneously atomised then your brain is destroyed, even if it perfectly recreates it a few seconds later with no error (unlikely) but I suppose you could argue the "transporter" has magic quantum soul storage array (I'm pretty sure that's the actual way it does work, I don't watch tv though) and it gets stored and injected back into the copy body
>>220071099It doesn't kill you.
>>220071716They are the great id of the noosphere.
>>220076308>Magic quantum bullshit tunneling wormholeIs how they should have handled it if they wanted that implication, but all the description of the process implies that it "atomises you, copies the data, and reassembles"
>makes you younger
>>220089313Does it make you stronger?
Mogged by ninja turtles
>>220071608>>220071099it's a fantasy show for fat losers
>>220071099>kills yougood enough, sign me up
>>220082619Anon, I…
>no one here read Dinosaur Logicthe absolute plebbest, retardest, ignorantest board, but what do you expect from 4channel.
>>220071099>kill yourself instantly and painlessly>don't inconvenience anyone because a copy replaces youWhere's the downside?
>>220091846>condemning a copy of yourself to lifemonstrous
>>220082470You now realize that your body mass is composed of almost as much microorganisms that live on and inside as your actual cells
>>220071832How do you know this?
>>220071608Good lord you zoom zooms are insufferable with your belief the universe didn't exist until you did.
>>220083474Have you never heard of medieval Japan? There have been plenty of instances of societies having socially acceptable suicide. Hell have you heard of modern Canada and various parts of Europe pushing euthanasia?
>>220089376Your soul doesn't have atoms, it's intangible, it's like an Organian, and Organians don't need transporters, so your soul doesn't get atomised and transported, it uses instant transmission to shove itself back up your transported body's nose at the end of the transportation process. It's all very scientific and honestly rather common sensical.
>>220071099Was rewatching Enterprise S3. the Xindi War is one of the finest story arcs to be found within Star Trek. not just that but S3 has a lot of high quality standalone episodes. ppl who sleep on Enterprise are missing out. it should've kept going. when it's really good, it reminds me of high quality DS9. i believe it did go on, but it's all to obvious we've had a timeline incursion that prematurely stopped it.
Suppose we could fully simulate a human brain in a computer, concious and feeling. You could take any moment in that simulation and pencil down the computer's state on a (gigantic) piece of paper. Repeat any number of times. Since the brain feels concious at every step in the simulation it also feels concious on every piece of paper. How can pencil scribblings be concious though? Impossible you say. Yet brain, computer and paper are all the same. Arrangements of atoms and electrons. Then it becomes clear, it is not the arrangement but the act of arranging by the rule giver that makes conciousness. The program, human ingeniousness and ultimately .. God.
>>220083619>Is there any sci-fi that portrays a man's brain being cut into chunks but all the pieces are kept alive and conscious?for a brief moment, you exist as "selves".
I love how faggots who don't even watch Trek don't know that Tom Riker was not created by the transporter but rather the planet's atmosphere fucking with the transporter beamSame thing with Tuvix, except it was a flower
>>220094224do atmospheres ever clone people without the help of a transporter beam?
>>220071608The prestige does a better job
>>220094224They are told but choose to "forget" and discuss the transporter in terms of modren understanding of science despite it existing in a world with things like Q and wormhole aliens and time travel and mirror dimensions. All with scientific explanation we just don't understand.
>>220096389>despite it existing in a world with things like Q and wormhole aliens and time travel and mirror dimensions.yet souls or a heaven are never established
