>Tolkien, WW1 veteran>"yeah, fuck military logistics, strategy, weaponry, etc">Peter Jackson makes it even more absurd by adding elvesWhat was Tolkien thinking when he wrote the battle of Helm's Deep?Why can the good guys never have better and more ecological weapons so they don't depend on immersion-killing-plot-armor?
>>220176762It was trees + Erkenbrand's scattered army that Gandalf helped to gather up.But I see nothing wrong with trees, it's a fantasy setting. I don't like that Uruk hai have plate armor tho, to me Lotr looks better if it's all early medieval.
>"yeah, fuck military logistics, strategy, weaponry, etc"You should read the Witcher by andrzej sapkowski if you're into that shit
>>220176899>I don't like that Uruk hai have plate armor thomakes sense when you remember Isengard cut down all the trees to smelt iron and Tolkien was partially inspired for Mordor and Isengard while taking walks around Merthyr Tydfil and seeing all the smoke stacks from the coal powdered Cyfarthfa Ironworks
>>220177005Maybe, but this is where Lotr falls apart for me, plus few other things.
>>220176762What’s wrong with the logistics, strategy, and weapons of Helm’s Deep as presented in the book as opposed to the movie.
>>220176762tolkien saw the horrors of war and thought every part of it was gay as fuck, why would he lionize it in any form beyond individual valor?
>>220177080>I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend>It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would rather have stayed there in peace.>On the thirteenth of that month Farmer Cotton found Frodo lying on his bed; he was clutching a white gem that hung on a chain about his neck and he seemed half in a dream. ‘It is gone for ever,’ he said, ‘and now all is dark and empty.’I realize the last quote has to do with the ring, but it struck me as being similar to someone with severe depression or ptsd. That line is juxtaposed to a glowing description of how beautifully the Shire recovered and other characters are having “happily ever after moments”. But he stays in bed suffering alone and doesn’t tell Sam when he gets sick.
>>220177057>>220177080Because it doesn't make sense that 10 rohirrim in horses could resist 8k uruks in open battle until Éomer's charge. Why they didn't use the horses when they were 500 (plus the 500 Jackson's elves), then?
>>220177208I believe the book says “all that could be mounted” without a specific number. Are you sure it was only 10?
>>220176762>Tolkien, WW1 veteran>>"yeah, fuck military logistics, strategy, weaponry, etc"Not fair to Tolkien at all, the campaigns of Saruman and Sauron make sense operationallyLet's take Saruman's for example>Saruman's army moves to take the ford of the Isen river>defeats Erkenbrand there>his forces are undisciplined (because he's evil) and disperse to loot>Theoden's relief force are too late, and instead divert to the fortress at Helm's Gate>Saruman cannot bypass the fortress because (a) his war goal is to destroy the Rohan monarchy and control the territory, (b) he needs to conquer Rohan asap, before Sauron conquers Gondor, (c) his army is infantry, whereas Rohirrim cavalry can conduct raids at speed from the fortress upon his supply lines that he cannot guard, (d) his other targets like Edoras are fortified and laying siege to them both violates (b) and renders his army vulnerable in the rear, etc.Tolkien also comments on things like weapons and armour, fortifications, army compositions and movementsNo it's not written like a textbook, but it's a hell of a lot better than most fantasy writers (looking at the fat hypocrite here, whose "war" scenarios make lack of tax policy look like a degree in economics)
>>220177030>reckless deforestation, smog, dams and industry are associated with the villains, not the heroes, of this fantasy tale.>that kind of ruins it for me. Maybe you could write a fanfic, where King Theoden cuts down all the forests and raises a pike and shot army to wage war against the hippy tree-hugger Sauruman.
>>220177030You sound like a whiny cunt.Legend, myth, and good stories don't work with women, and boys who think they are women.
>>220177208how did they fit 10 rohirrim in the horses?
>>220177536They were Trojan horses. They rolled them down the approach and crushed the Uruk-hai
>>220177557dang, that's cool
Isnt fantasy \iterally the "it was magic" genre?
>>220177557That doesn't make any sense as we see them chop down trees in Isengard which means they are versed in anti-timber tacticsAnd before anyone says the ents they had to use water which empowers wood in feng shui to win
>>220177519you sound like you wear cum on your face
>>220176762Tolkien wrote works inspired by poetry and Arthurian tales where vibes matter more than hard logic. The genre is quite literally called fantasy.
>>220177639That’s precisely what Theoden banked on, and why they lost to the ents; they were hyper focused on stationary trees and couldn’t handle wood when it was moving
>>220177400a quick correction but otherwise you're rightbut Saruman's troops weren't undisciplined because he's evil, but rather because he's an amateur at warfarethe Witch King manages to maintain control over his forces and runs the siege of Minas Tirith professionally both in terms of planning and execution It's also a significant difference between Saruman and Sauron that Sauron is perfectly happy to delegate significant authority to underlings he has identified as being sufficiently competent and loyal, while Saruman wants to micromanage everything to his own detriment
>>220176762People like you ruined fantasy.
>>220176762>Can Fantasy makes sense or it is impossible?Obviously yes. Anything with well defined premises can, you just need to follow them to their logical conclusion.Bad fantasy doesn't, and it often ends being D&D, or woke shit.Sadly most retards approaching the genre (also true for sci-fi, and to a lesser extent all genre tbf) just think "it's fantasy, it doesn't have to make sense". And that's how most of these things becomes automatically crap
>>220177242Perhaps not exactly 10, but very few, if most were killed by the uruks during the battle in the walls.>>220177590>>220177705>'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.' Arthur C. Clarke I get that Tolkien's world is based in the Middle Ages, but you can clearly see innovation when Mairon turns Númenor in a steam-punk power and Saruman develops dinamite. Humans refusing to technologically evolved feels stupid, ok Tolkien was an ecologist, that doesn't mean not learn how to develop a parallel tech that still respects nature while also wins over Mairon's industry.>>220177400If only we could get a film or show that portrays the evolution of the 'War of Ring' throught an autistic level of details instead of awful Amazonslops.
>>220177949You are stupid. And that's why all is nothing but slops.>>220178068Glad to see another true enjoyer. I just want good Fantasy, that with the pass of time shows how it evolves to Scifi, when its civilizations and species evolved and learn how reality works.
>>220178113Wasnt humans reliant on dwarves and elves "technology"they all had hard ons for mithril.they all relied on wizards. humans are retarded in fantasy terms
>>220178203>dwarves don't produce mithril in industrial scale >humans don't demand it either>no weapons nor armors made of mithril >wizards let a lot of people doe until they finally decided to intervene >elves do the same as dwarves and wizardsNo, anon, not only humans are retarded in Fantasy, all """intelligent""" species are.
>>220176762>>"yeah, fuck military logistics, strategy, weaponry, etc"you wat matey? orcs were eating themselvesbarely one gunpowder load usedpretty much solid Sauron strategy considering material he had to work with, except leaving Orodruina undefended
>>220178271>>dwarves don't produce mithril in industrial scaleThey can't do that. Mithril is super rare. The only place it is even economically viable to mine it is in Moria. And the dwarves don't control Moria anymore
>>220178113The book had way more men defending helms deep than 300. In the book there was at least 2K there plus another 1k later.
>>220179620also even 300 would absolutely be sufficient to man the walls of a fortress like thatpeople underestimate just how much of a ridiculous force multiplier a well built castle was
>>220176922There isn't much logistics and strategy in the Witcher but Sapkowski shows the horror and atrocities of war very well.
>>220176762there are dozens of military based fantasy settings, if you were a fan of this genre (it's niche) you would know this. the fantasy you are aware of appeals to the widest audience, and therefore is about escapism and magical thinking, rather than realistic plots and events.at that point you might as well read non-fiction about major wars.
Nothing wrong with the Ents defeating the Uruk-hai.
>>220178164You are truly retarded and don't understand the fundamental foundation of 'fantasy.'
>>220179983Nta, but Fantasy doesn't means "it doesn't mean to make sense"Any setting that doesn't make sense is bad by definitio.Mind you, it has to make sense according to the premises, but the premises can be unrealistic as fuck. You just need to make sense starting from those unrealistic starting point
>>220177478Ziggers beat him to a punchhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer
>>220176762That's the point, he was a WW1 vet and wrote a fantasy story where good guys take a heroic action and prevail
>>220180052>Ziggers beat him to a punch>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_RingbearerKirill Yeskov is against the invasion of Ukraine, dumbfuck.
>>220176762heavy cavalry are the icbms of the age
>>220180175And since when that must be against common sense, logic and physics? Last time I checked, Arda is Earth and therefore, it has the same laws about physics, evolution, time, etc.>>220180542Heavy cavalry was nothing against good old English archers in the Battle of Azincourt.
>>220181546Agincourt was a bog.
>>220181546you do know the english lost that war right?
>>220181546>Last time I checked, Arda is EarthBullshit.>therefore, it has the same laws about physics, evolution, time, etc.And it has the same laws about magic, one God, etc.
>>220179526>have ultra-rare material nearly undestroyable in just one mine-city >don't send all the armies you have to kick the goblins and nuke the balrogDamn.>>220179918Can you recommend me some?
>>220181974>according to Tolkien, Arda is Earth that will get nuked in the Final Battle (Dagor Dagorath)
>>220181729>>220181761https://youtu.be/k9WZO4W1be4?si=0DqAKKLO9pSNA55y
>>220182081>>according to Tolkien, Arda is Earth that will get nuked in the Final Battle (Dagor Dagorath)Tolkien also wrote many times that Arda or Middle-earth is an imaginary world.
>>220182050>>don't send all the armies you have to kick the goblins and nuke the balrogThey did. They defeated the orc army but lost too much dwarves to purge Moria, besides they knew city-destroying evil shit is still there.
>>220176762Did anyone watch the tolkien biopic? was it good?
