How is Grace a traitor at all? He sends back the astrophage-eating organism to save Earth's star from being consumed- Thus saving Earth. He also sent back all his recorded data on Rocky along with samples of the Xenonite for further study- And I assume he also sent coordinates/starmap information for humans to someday get to Erid

>>220210527
>Grace betrays mankind for something that doesn't even have a soul. It's explained that Eridians are just a bunch of single cell organisms that live inside the skeleton and have build a computer that runs this skeleton.
such shallow thinking, are you 12 or just a boomer who thinks souls exist in the literal sense

>>220210643
He went with the rock monster to his home world instead of going home to earth. He also saved the Eridians, which could become a threat later. Better to let them die from the astrophage.

The only thing he did right was that he at least sent the solution to the astrosphage problem back to earth. Not dooming humanity to death is a pretty low bar for the hero of a story.

>>220210527
You’re just a bunch of single celled organisms.

>>220210527
>Grace betrays mankind for something that doesn't even have a soul. It's explained that Eridians are just a bunch of single cell organisms that live inside the skeleton and have build a computer that runs this skeleton.
Stout words from a guy whose whole existence relies on stinky mitochondria

(I have not seen nor will I ever see this film)

>>220210823
Eridians are computers made by evolution. They are no different than the AI we've built. No one in their right mind think computer AIs are conscious.

I don't believe souls don't exist in the "21 grams"-sense, or the religious idea of an eternal soul, but consciousness does. The Eridians are just very complex machines being maintained by single cell organism, neither of which has a consciousness.

>>220210865
No, my cells have formed a brain with consciousness.

>>220210883
No, my cells have formed a brain with consciousness.

>>220210527
>Grace betrays mankind for something that doesn't even have a soul
You illiterate fuck. Go jump off a bridge and spare humanity your stupidity

>>220210865
i bet you have lots of ex-friends

>>220211115
>no my cells have formed [a computer]

>>220211135
All you are doing is revealing your contempt for humanity as a whole. Older science fiction was about the greatness of humanity, not this weird anti-human nonsense.

>>220210883
>You’re just a bunch of single celled organisms.
basic biology fail

>>220211338
no, you.

>>220210865
>instead of returning to earth
No guarantee he survives the journey, given the other two astronauts died
>could become a threat later
No reason to believe this. We shouldn’t automatically annihilate every other sentient species like complete savages
>low bar
His only job was to do that. He did that, as well as give earth a bunch of other useful stuff.
There was nothing for him on earth and it’s iffy if he even makes it home alive. His ship also couldnt even make the fucking journey until after the rock people fixed it (explicitly stated) and it’s ambiguous if he eventually went back to earth.
Letting rocky die instead of turning around to save his people AFTER rocky nearly died saving him would be absolute nigger behavior and basically you’re a complete fucking retard. Probably some christcuck dipshit given how obsessed you are with “souls” and “demons”. Unironically kill yourself.

>>220211565
There is the point that rocky’s ship doesn’t have any radiation shielding or detection technology

>>220211565
I hope liberals like yourself are gone by the time we start exploring the galaxy. We need leaders who put our own interests first.

>>220210527
>Grace betrays mankind for something that doesn't even have a soul. It's explained that Eridians are just a bunch of single cell organisms that live inside the skeleton and have build a computer that runs this skeleton.
Is this canon? that's fucked

I just googled it and it says Eridians have brains so OP is lying

>>220212846
They have crystalline structures that run on light, which means they have computers that are automatons, not brains with consciousness.

The living cells they have inside their shells aren't even attached to the crystalline structures. Imagine if some mold on earth started to gather iron then built a boat hull from it and floated around the ocean. Eventually there would be many colonies of mold, all with their own iron boat hulls floating around the ocean.

Then image the same mold gradually made more and more complex structures, through a process of natural selection. Then eventually they have constructed a fully working computer on one of their boat hulls.

Does that mean the mold is somehow conscious? No, it simply mean nature made a machine that has no consciousness.

>>220213023
Our brains run on electricity, does that make them unconscious computers?

>>220210527
How come Gosling is literally the only white speaking character in this movie

>>220213130
The german woman is white

>>220213130
Gosling is the only speaking character

>>220213058
We are multicellular organisms that have our cells arranged in such a way that it generates consciousness.

The Eridian crystalline structures are physically separated from their living cells. The single cell organisms that maintaining the Eridian body is not telepathically connected to the inert parts of the shell, as is explained in the book. Telepathy is not even possible, it's just fantasy and this is a hard science book/movie.

The living cells are essentially just building computers inside the husk that they live in. The computers that they build having nothing to do with the cells. It's entirely incidental that the cells made this or that computer and the computer is just a machine.

>>220213318
That makes zero sense and therefore I bet the book doesn't say any of that. Why would the cells build a totally separate computer for no reason?

>>220213130
Grace is not a hero. He is a coward. A true heroic protagonist would have volunteered for this great mission, then outsmarted the rock monster and then went home to earth as a conquering hero.

Up until the mid 60s, this was how sci-fi was written. Dune was written like that. After that everything was about how humanity sucked, who monkeys are peaceful and something about the environment.

>>220213318
Human brains are also physical information-processing systems. Neurons are electrochemical switches exchanging signals across networks. Consciousness emerges from the organization and behavior of the system, not from the specific substrate that is being organized.
You also mention “telepathy,” but nothing in the concept requires literal telepathy. The cells only need some physical signaling interface with the crystalline structures, just like neurons communicate with each other through physical processes. Rocky clearly demonstrates self-awareness, reasoning, creativity, emotions, language, social attachment, and intentional behavior throughout the story. The entire point of the book is that intelligence and personhood can emerge from a radically different biological architecture than ours.

>>220213362
The idea is that life never truly became multicellular on Erid. Instead of cells keeping together forming complex multicellular structures like on earth, they remained physically separate single cells.

Instead the single cell organisms lived inside rocks and other inorganic material as a colony, and eventually some of the colonies evolved the ability to more then rocks they lived in around through various means such as generating heat in water inside steam pistons.

>>220210527
Didn't read any of that but fuck I love this movie, and Rocky. It made my cry like a bitch, and the ost made me feel things

>>220213460
"Consciousness emerges from the organization and behavior of the system". Do you have any proof of this? If this was true, then some video game from the 90s could just as well have become self-aware.

>>220213620
Do you have any proof that consciousness can only emerge from a substrate made from soft meat?

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>>220210865
So your standard for betrayal is literally just, not going home
Are expats traitors to their country?

>>220213661
I can't be asked to prove a negative. No one can. I am however living proof that consciousness can emerge from a substrate made from living cells.

>>220210823
its a bot pushing literal xenophobia and hatred

>>220213730
i don't know man, you seem pretty soulless to me

>>220211161
>akshuallly its billions of very cheap cellular level computers networked for parallel computation

>>220213452
you're conflating eastern and western science fiction. after the 60s eastern science fiction started gaining popularity despite it literally all being "ah bloo bloo space sucks and people suck and we'd just take our problems into space ;_;" because they lost the space race and would never make it to the moon.

The moral of the story is never trust a woman.

>>220213728
Yes. Some guy I work with is from Bosnia and one time he said something positive about his home country and I said that he must hate his own country because he left when it was in civil war and would have needed him.

He also explained to me that when he goes back there the people who stayed no longer consider him a real Bosnian, which makes sense.

I have nothing against the guy, but it's a fact that he is a traitor to his own people and country.

>>220213730
being tasked to prove only meat can be conscious isn't being tasked to prove a negative. being tasked to prove a rock CAN'T be conscious is being tasked to prove a negative.

>>220213816
Rocky is literally a rock though. There are single cell organisms living inside the shell of this mechanical monster, but it's still just a mechanical rock monster.

>>220213809
you sound extremely autistic. autism is an effect of being born without a "soul."

>>220213871
that is an evasion. you are just a collection of single celled organisms.

>>220213897
No. You don't understand basic biology. We are multicellular, not many single celled organisms like Eridians are supposed to be.

>>220214025
"multicellular" just means "lots of single celled organisms."

>>220214025
multicellular organisms are collections of single celled organisms

>>220213745
You dont know what a bot is you low IQ tranny. Also no need to push what already here, troon

>>220214079
>nobody discussing trannies
>the movies isn’t about trannies whatsoever
>anon brings them up completely unprompted
rent free LMFAO

>>220210527
it's a movie for children 12-16. i'm fine with that. it's a kids movie. i enjoyed it for what it was. rocky was funny, ryan was ryan, the SFX were fine, the space stuff is cool, the story was good, the ending was interesting, the jokes landed.... what else is there to say. a solid 6/10 in general. probably an 8/10 in terms of kids movies.

i will rewatch it someday. how often do you ever say that about a movie these days.

>>220214051
>>220214056
No, you are dead wrong. Multicellular means that the cells are attached physically and can affect one another in various ways, such as forming a network that is conscious.

If Eridians were conscious, that would mean that the inorganic crystalline structures was the consciousness, and that it just happened to be taken care of by a colony of single cell organism. This would also make it an artificial intelligence, not a biological one.

This is however just nonsense. You can't arrange inorganic minerals in any way that would create an actual consciousness.

>>220214220
>You can't arrange inorganic minerals in any way that would create an actual consciousness
source?

>>220214198
nononono you don’t get it Ryan Gosling was supposed to let the only other sentient species humanity has ever been in contact with DIE because one day maybe they might attack us for some reason. He also should have gone home and gotten his dick sucked by the bitchy deceitful German lady even though there’s nothing there for him and he basically gets to just chill as a hero with his rock bro.

>>220214198
The thing though is that movies for kids and young adults that age should instill good values. The main character is a coward and a traitor.

The whole movie is yet another example of trying to get the audience to sympathize with what essentially is a monster from outer space. It's better made than District 9, but that just makes it more insidious.

>>220214220
what is the difference between two cells next to each other communicating and two cells physically attached communicating. your synapses aren’t physically attached they just shoot chemicals at each other.

>>220213564
>>220213362
In the books Eridians, life on Earth and Astrophage all have a common ancestor. They all have carbon based cells, requiee water and have the same mitochondria. Christcuck probably seething about panspermia

>>220214248
My source is that it hasn't happened despite people have been trying to do that since the invention of computers. People have been saying true artificial consciousness will come any moment, but it never does, and it never will.

>>220214374
I am not saying that the single cell organisms inside Rocky isn't living. I am saying that the big glass computer inside the shell isn't living.

>>220214220
>You can't arrange inorganic minerals in any way that would create an actual consciousness
What, you mean like arranging oxygen, carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen and making neurons...in a human brain. What do you think "organic" cells even are? Do you understand was abiogenesis even is? How organic life was even formed?

>>220214325
>government agencies won’t respect your autonomy
>don’t automatically trust someone just because they’re nice, especially if they have ulterior motives
>learn to parse out how good a person is, even if they look different than you
Seems pretty based to me. You’ve never been fucked over by someone you considered friendly, or treated kindly by someone you were initially wary of?

>>220214395
according to current science, organic molecules originally arose from inorganic matter. so its happened.

>>220214395
computers have existed for less than 100 years, and you expect us to have already created virtual consciousness? It took millions of years for the human brain to develop.

>>220210527
nice chud take, I bet you are really popular and well respected among your peers

>>220210527
OP is literally the definition of low IQ third worlder. As soon as he mentioned "soul" and betraying Earth, I knew immediately. Fucking midwit indian or brazil monkey

>>220214548
>you expect us to have already created virtual consciousness?
No.

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>>220214443
It's almost like a bunch of grouped "single cells" in an organism that intereact with one another to form a system of organs are called a multicellular organism

>>220214647
>it hasn't happened
>okay it has happened but it won't again

>>220214647
> My source is that it hasn't happened despite people have been trying to do that since the invention of computers.
you said it isn’t possible because it hasn’t happened yet, but we’ve only had like 90 years to even try.

>>220214676
Virtual consciousness has never happened. Are you confused?

>>220214708
more like 20, as computers were still extremely simple until the turn of the century.

>>220214395
>>220214647
>>220214676
>>220214735
I think this guy might be ESL or just retarded or something

>>220214735
you said consciousness from inorganic material can't happen because it hasn't happened yet at >>220214248. carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen are inorganic materials arranged in such a way as to create consciousness. So you moved the goalpost, and pretended you didn't.

concession accepted.

>>220214527
Science has absolutely no idea how consciousness emerged. I mean the obvious answer is God but modern science won't accept that as a possibility.

>>220214735
excuse me, I meant to point at >>220214220 in >>220214821

>>220214821
>carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen are inorganic materials arranged in such a way as to create consciousness.
Source? What makes you think consciousness arose from a particular arrangement of some particular molecules?

>>220214828
We do know, for a fact, that carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen are not "organic" matter.

>>220214875
Ok. But science has absolutely no idea how consciousness emerged.

Nobody knows what consciousness is or how it emerges from matter. We know that some of our conscious events are at very least correlated with certain activity in the brain because we can ask people what they feel while they're inside an MRI, but that's it. If you want to be a pseud about it, you could even claim that nobody knows for certain whether anyone but them is conscious, given that we are only directly acquainted with our own consciousness, and that we infer that others are conscious too because they behave like we do and we can ask them about it. I don't see how thats any different with Rocky, who behaves as though he is conscious and reports conscious states, and presumably if Grace measured his brain activity he would also find correlations with whatever Rocky reports about how he is feeling etc.

>>220210527
Why did the spider thing kill Ryan gosling wtf was that. He stabbed the shit out of him after the elevator scene. What does that have to do with anything.

>>220210527
tldr who care about this reddit slop

>>220214892
Moving the goalposts again.
OP claimed that we know that consciousness can emerge from an arrangement of organic molecules, namely in the case of our own brains. OP also claimed that consciousness has never emerged from an arrangement of inorganic molecules. Yet, organic molecules originated from some arrangement of inorganic ones. Hence, consciousness emerged from some arrangement of inorganic molecules.

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>>220214892
>consciousness has never emerged from inorganic matter
>okay it did but it hasn't happened again
>okay it might but we don't know how it did or how to do it again

>>220214966
I'm not OP and i don't give a fuck what he said

>>220210527
>grace betrayed all of mankind
by saving all of mankind?

>>220214984
You are OP

>>220210527
When the credits started rolling I thought to myself: this is based on a bestselling book?
star eating microbes that also power our spaceship? come on kek

>>220214856
well, i at least know that I a "particular arrangement of some particular molecules" and I am conscious. I have my doubts about (you).

>>220214974
What are you even trying to say? You're just babbling.

>>220214793
If you must know, I am from Sweden.

>>220214821
I am talking about how there is steps between. Life in the form of single cell organisms can emerge from inorganic carbon. Those single cell organisms can then evolve into multicellular organisms and eventually become conscious.

What you can't do, however, is to put some crystals together and run some light through then, then magically a consciousness come into existence. This is supposedly what the Eridian worker cells do. They arrange some minerals and create a consciousness out of crystal structures.

Can't wait when this film hits the torrents and we will get thread after thread by mid-wits acting smarter than "normies".

>>220215014
But you seem to know how consciousness first emerged. According to you some carbon, oxygen and hydrogen molecules arranged themselves or got arranged in some way and that created consciousness. I'm not sure how you know that.

>>220215020
What you're experiencing right now is called cognitive dissonance. You are being presented with information you don't want to acknowledge, due to it contradicting a tightly held, but mistaken, preconception.

"Organic" matter is composed of "inorganic matter." Humans are composed of "organic" matter. Humans are "conscious." Therefore "consciousness" arose from inorganic matter. QED.

>>220215061
I know that hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen are not "organic matter," therefore consciousness provably arose from inorganic matter.

>>220215055
So the Eridians CAN do it

>>220215068
What you're experiencing right now is called being retarded

>>220215122
You are now upset and lashing out because you don't have an argument, thus, can't refute the information presented to you, but don't want to drop your mistaken preconception.

>>220214892
We do. We see it happen constantly. The question is what is the prime mover. Who started it all and how. Something beyond time and space, I call it “God”. Something created causation and broke it by creating it. Without it, there is no free will. Something that large and complex would be conscious, hence “God”. From complexity energies peaks of sentience it appears. Look at animals and our machines.

>>220215092
You and the entirety of science doesn't know jack squat about what consciousness is or how it came to be and stop rearranging words to make it appear as if you do

>>220215152
shit, the tradlarpers have arrived

>>220215154
Which is irrelevant to the proven fact that consciousness arose from an arrangement of inorganic matter.

>>220215152
>From complexity energies peaks of sentience it appears.
Get off the computer and call 911, you are having a stroke

>>220215152
>From complexity energies peaks of sentience it appears
and he is an ESL retard too

>>220215174
Nothing is a "proven fact" when it comes to consciousness. You can't even prove that you are conscious.

>>220210527
>Grace betrayed all of mankind because he projected something that was never there on a rock monster.
How did he betray humanity? The retards running that space program fucked him over, and also he still accomplished the mission objective. It was a one way trip, he sent back the samples (with the help of rocky btw) and survived. Did ew watch the same movie?

>>220215112
Andy Weir most likely think they can do it. I however conclude that Eridians must be machines with no consciousness that are being maintained by a colony of single cell organisms.

This is just a pointless discussion anyways, because even if they were conscious, they would still just be rock monsters from outer space.

>>220215222
Anon. All you're doing right now is arguing against your own consciousness.

>>220215222
I can prove it to myself.

>>220215254
I know I'm conscious, I can't prove it to someone. Look up the definition of the word "prove"

>>220210865
>betrays mankind
mankind is that species ruled by evil pedophiles right?

>>220215320
You don't need to prove it to someone else, is the point you can't really comprehend here. Your consciousness is self-evident to yourself. You are composed of inorganic matter. Therefore consciousness arose from inorganic matter, at least once. Unless you engage in solipsism, there is no reason to think you're sufficiently different from another human being to think they are also not consciousness arisen from an arrangement of inorganic matter.

This brings us to the endstate of OP's assertion. If rocky isn't conscious, neither is any other human being.

>>220215170
>>220215190
>>220215192
It is what it is. Complexity creates sentience. The universe emerged from one point of pure complexity. Something beyond our time and space, I call that “God”. Sentience breaks the the causation of the other 4 known forces, it violates them in ways that are improbable. What we are made out of is very common and yet we create Suns. That’s improbable, free will is a force just like strong and weak nuclear forces, em and gravity. It interacts and alters them. The universe would not exist if causation from the four forces only existed and sentience hadn’t emerged. Something changed it and created an imbalance which led to the big bang

>>220215423
You don't understand any of the words or concepts you are using, mongoloid.

>>220215381
>If rocky isn't conscious, neither is any other human being.
Then the same could be said about every computer ever made, but no one believes any computer is conscious.

>>220215452
no you see [thing beyond my comprehension] caused [thing beyond my comprehension]! it makes perfect sense!

>>220215469
that's an aside, at best, but I'll give you a real response.

because computers, thus far, haven't acted completely independently.

>>220215381
>consciousness exists in beings that are at least partly composed of inorganic matter
Yes
>consciousness AROSE FROM inorganic matter
No. You're making a massive leap assuming that the source of the consciousness was the arrangement of particular molecules. Again science knows shit all about the nature of consciousness, stop pretending otherwise

>>220215517
This requires "organic matter" to exist that is not composed of inorganic matter.

OP didn’t get it

>>220215452
You can’t explain the universe starting without sentience emerging. The complexity is to great and that would explain the big bang and how a flaw in the binding force leading to it. Why wasn’t regular matter matched by the anti.

You can pretend you are a chemical reaction all you want I choose not to

>>220215574
Too* great

>>220215574
anon. metaphysics is just playing pretend at the olympic level.

>>220215574
You should choose to stop pretending to understand any of these concepts, mongo

>>220215609
It’s not metaphysics. Sentience arises from complex systems and allows the being to act against the 4 forces which govern the universe
Or you are just a chemical reaction without free will

It’s that simple of a choice for you to make
If you go with option one, God made the universe. No free will without God.

>>220215667
>its not metaphysics! its [metaphysics]! if you don't believe its not metaphysics then you are just [physics]!

>>220215493
"Acting independently", or "being able to fool people it's human", or any other measurable metric is not a good way of telling if something is truly conscious.

There's tons of computer programs that act independently, and there's tons of people being tricked by AI. Those things says nothing about whether or not the computer is conscious.

The truth is that if someone ever creates an artificial consciousness, then we would not necessarily even be able to tell it had happened.

Grace being fooled by the machine Rocky means nothing, and the machines ability to act independently doesn't mean it's not a machine.

>>220215667
Classical theism defines God as omniscient: God knows everything, including every future human action. If God already infallibly knows that tomorrow you will do X, then it is impossible for you not to do X; otherwise God’s knowledge would be mistaken, which is impossible. But if it is impossible for you to do otherwise, then you lack free will. Therefore, if there is a God, free will does not exist.

>>220215730
and applied to humans these arguments end up creating a solipsist. but hey, you don't seem to really understand what any of the words you used actually mean, so whatever.

>>220215717
Sarcasm is the last refugee of a weak and weary mind. There is a God. Nothing like a human but it does exist.

>>220215758
reminder: the torah originally had hierarchical arrangement of gods and demigods and angels, which was at some point retconned into being all one god, without changing the stories. this is why satan comes out of nowhere and "god" acts so irrationally and contradicts himself frequently.

>>220215776
>doesn't know what sarcasm means either
yeah i guess that tracks.

>>220215822
That’s not what that phrase means. Unless you add complimenting me. It’s not meant to be a pejorative phrase. Try again.

>>220215917
Are complimenting me*
But hey everyone likes redefine words and phrases these

>>220215770
I am well aware of that, but it's not hard to make the leap of faith that the other "things" that look, talk and act like you are most likely conscious just like you.

Consciousness can never be measured, since you can't enter someone else's consciousness. You can then instead either assume that many things are conscious, or just a few.

I don't believe any computer or man made device has consciousness. It could probably be constructed at some time in the far future. I also do not believe some colony of single cell organisms could arrange a few mirrors and shine some light through, and then that arrangement would be conscious.

Eridians and Rocky are just mechanical rock monsters with no consciousness.

>>220215917
You have consistently displayed very little understanding of the concepts you reference. You also confused direct and straight mockery for sarcasm, due to a lack of understanding of sarcasm.

See, all you're doing is attaching magical properties to things you don't really understand, so you can pretend to have some handle on why the universe exists. This is the height of arrogance. You could just admit you don't know shit, but that would interfere with the rotting bliss of false enlightenment.

>>220215797
How does that refute anything I said?

>>220215974
>the leap of faith
that would be a logical conclusion, rather than a "leap of faith." Just as "people are composed of inorganic matter, people are conscious, therefore consciousness can arise from inorganic matter" would be a logical conclusion.

>>220216032
that there is no such thing as "classical theism." The "omniscient" god was an amalgamation of a once polytheistic religion that decided to just have one god, but didn't want to change any of their stories.

>>220216086
Yes, retard, there is such a thing as classical theism. Its a well known theological position which defines God, amongst other things, as omniscient..

>>220216143
Did I need to just outright state that theology is bullshit?

>>220210823
Consciousness is the battleground, it is free will and personal choice/agency. The very resource that all predictive programming (with "entertainment" as reward) try to remove/kill.

Betrayal implies he owes mankind his allegiance, when they clearly betrayed him by sending him to die in space against his will. You could argue it was Grace who first betrayed them by refusing to go, fully aware of the consequences, but then that makes the whole point of your thread moot, for he was already a betrayer, in your twisted view, before even meeting Rocky.

>>220216177
So how do you appeal to God in your gibberish posts if you think he is a Jewish invention?

>>220216241
The answer to that question might lie in the idea there's more than one person on 4chan.

>>220213809
Grace didn't leave by choice and his mission was designed as one way
doing exactly what your people ask of you is the exact opposite of this situation

>>220216834
>neuroscience
ah yes, the field that gave us the idea that brains aren't "fully developed" until 26. pure coincidence that's the age most people have stopped ranking their brain over the coals of higher education and have settled into a career.

>>220210865
Posts like this are all I need to know imprisoning all autistic people is morally correct and the only way anyone can ever be safe at all. You are all sociopaths with malfunctions in your brains. No one is safe around you ever for any reason.

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what i dont get is why didnt he asked her out. why not have one last one night stand.

>>220217647
because she is unattractive

>>220217647
he saw anatomy of a fall

how are people watching this? i can only find a cam version. it looks decent but is there a real one out?

>>220218330
go to the movies you cheap ass

>>220210527
>about to get mad at this post
>remember that just the other day I made a thread asking "why space turn red duhhh?" because I wanted a project hail mary thread and you need to trick people into talking about things
carry on

filtered

>>220218330
theres a leak of the cinema copy from russia, in fact I've not seen any hand cam versions and only seen the cinema leak uploaded multiple times