This is so fucking dumb. Didn't they have survival instincts?
>>220212524Just make sure you don't get hit and you'll be fine.
>>220212524
>>220212524Yes, you survived by staying with your unit and following orders.
>>220212524They were part of a civilization not fight or flight cavemen
>>220212524It was more of a show of force. Most battles were quick and easy, ending with the other side running
>>220212524War is awesome and an epic adventure I wish I could be in a war
>>220212760thisit was about rizz and bit of strategy not raw power like in negro world wars
>>220212524Its either that or the navy.
>>220212792why don't you enlist then
>>220212524there is always a deficeit of marrigable women. always. all the way back to eve there have never been enough decent women for every deserving man. until 70 years ago the solution to this problem was war. they knew how stupid it was and they did it anyway because they knew that there was no point in living without a decent women to breed. the problem, my zoomie little friend, is that you dont understand how pointless life is if you dont breed. its mostly the jews fault for conditioning you but thats really no excuse unless your brown.
>>220212823I am 34 I’d be a saltier recruit then they have in the navy
Just use horses.
>>220212830I'm brown and I will never ever breed, because I think it's immoral
Here's what happened when brownoids tried facing the "dumb" European line warfare tactics
>>220212524War used to be a gentlemanly pursuit. Pip pip.
>>220212617lol
>>220212524Idiot, standing close together like that actually lowers the statistical probability you get hit.
>>220213162how?
List of reasons for linear warfare >Command needs to know where you areWithout radios orders had to be given out by riders or even guys just running across the battlefield. If your unit is completely scattered they won't know what's going on and can't find your officer as quickly, which why they also carried two flags which consisted of a flag dedicated to your nation (Britain, Prussia, France) and your regiment's flag. >Your officer can't give orders if you're out of earshotBattlefields are loud. If your officer needs to tell you something it will be through either shouting or an instrument.>Defense against cavalryIf a horde of cavalry crest the hill everyone needs to be able to stand their ground together to defend against them. Individuals will be hunted down and slaughtered one by one.>Better effect per volleyMuskets are more accurate than many give them credit for, but they're still not rifles. Everyone firing together increases the chance of hitting as well as dealing greater damage to the morale of enemies.>Better moraleWar is war. It's horrifying and no amount of colorful clothes or happy tunes will change that. You feel better when you're around friends, and will feel less in danger when there's so many more targets for the enemy around you then you getting shot at individually. Cowards can be motivated through encouragement from those around them as well as threats.Q&A:>Why didn't they sprint?They did when it was appropriate.>Why didn't they dig trenches?They did when it was appropriate.>Why didn't they wear armor?Expensive, heavy, and required high maintenance. Legionnaires had slaves, knights had assistants, redcoats had no one.>Why not use bows?Easier for raw recruits to learn the motions of operating a musket, ammo is cheaper, firing is less physically draining, and muskets were for more lethal and traumatizing. Watching your buddy get hit in the gut by an arrow is less scary than his head exploding.Feel free to ask more.
>>220212524They realized how fucking stupid this tactic was in ww1 when they got slaughtered by the thousands by machine guns. It was only the dominant war theory because everyone was using it except third worlders who were just retards with bows and arrows.
>>220213241This tactic only became stupid after machine guns were invented.
>>220213224NTA but: Its about you as the individual. If theres more people around you there's more people for the enemy to be shooting at besides you. It's of course mostly psychological but that's really half the battle.
>>220213241>They realized how fucking stupid this tactic was in ww1 when they got slaughtered by the thousands by machine guns.Entirely different style of fighting and they still fought in formations. Modern infantry fights in formations too. Just smaller and more spread out.
Why do you think the military training was for?
>>220212524What do you mean?What's wrong with what they are doing?
>>220213039Now thats soldiering
>>220213334Except modern military formations don't or shouldn't just walk straight in front of the enemy with no cover like they once did. It's not the formation that is the problem.
I've heard all the arguments before and they make sense BUT:why not walking sideways? Literally no reason to offer a larger target
>>220212524they had grenadiers behind them that would shoot them if they ran
>>220212914that's younger than the average age of men fighting in Ukraine
>>220213465You can't bayonet charge walking sideways
>>220212524You couldn’t really see and artillery then you’d pull back if you were losing. It was like a weird gentleman thing. If the colonist could stand a chance they’d do it if they had no chance they went guerilla. Washington wanted to fight that way but later on they started fighting more modern. Napeleon started copying American rev warfare as well.The English severely underestimated the amount of rebels willing to fight and their generals were born rich morons trying to one up each other and constantly fucking each other Washington barely won and he spent a good chunk of the war beating the shit out of rebels who went loud mouth. Seriously Washington if he was alive would be beating ass. Like physically kicking the shit out of people publicly. He nearly mangled a guy for making fun of his transsexual military leaders boyfriend using his horse. Apparently dragged someone through a field behind a horse
>>220212524Replace the riflemen with archers and infantry and you could ask the exact same question.
>>220213555>you can't rotate your torso and charge once you're close enough
>>220213465The ground wasn't ever smooth and walking sideways means a lot of tripping.
>>220213581no. For the rich, armor was effective, for the poor, shields were enough. You could even go roman testudo and avoid damage entirely.
>>220213607Apparently not because they never did it that way.
>>220213403>Except modern military formations don't or shouldn't just walk straight in front of the enemy with no cover like they once did. Which are you talking about? The 18th century or WW1? Because you're wrong on both accounts.
>>220213645>trip>you immediately switch from front line to second-third line good
Have you guys ever fantasized about bringing a gun with unlimited ammo back in time?
How is it dumb? It was the best tactics at the time. Should they just follow their survival instinct and flee?
>>220212793>>220212760Most casualties occurred during the rout. You would know this if you play Total War series
>>220213719My brain autonomously fantasizes everyday about doing exactly that to help Romans in Teutoburg, crusaders in Jerusalem, Byzantines in Constantinople, Spanish in the Anglo-Spanish War, and then some german guy in the 1940s
>>220213719nah, god mode and cheats are boring as hell in video games
>>220212524Fighting in formations was just the optimal way to use shitty muskets.It was all about getting off as many shots as possible from the optimal range.If you have 1000 men you want all 1000 in a line shooting at the enemy. You don't want half of them stuck in the back unable to shoot. So you pack them in a tight formation so you can have as many guns in the front line as you can.Every musket army in the world used the same tactics, including the Continental Army in the Revolutionary War. The idea that they hid behind trees is a myth.This style of fighting only disappeared when better guns were invented.
>>220213241>They realized how fucking stupid this tactic was in ww1 when they got slaughtered by the thousands by machine guns.It was only stupid by that time BECAUSE they were walking toward machine guns and being hit with artillery.
>>220213465>why not walking sideways?haha
>>220213758only true before pike and shot era. Once firearms became common battlefield mortality sky rocketed and armies shrunk. By the time of the red coats which was after pike and shot had been refined and advanced that was not true at all anymore, almost all battlefield casualties came from guns during the battle.
>>220212524>This is so fucking dumbSmoothbore muskets aren't accurate.If you didn't do this, they'd never be able to hit anything.It wasn't until rifling (of small arms and artillery) became the norm that massing infantry and artillery (to ensure they hit what's in front of them) no longer made sense.You'd understand this if you'd ever thrown a football with a spiral vs. without.
>>220212524It's not as dumb as it looks if you understand the tactics and weaponry of the time as well as the tactics used previously. It's only silly from the point of view of someone that only knows post world wars warfare every barrel had rifeling.
why not have rollable ladders with multiple people shooting from them?(no not a siege tower)
>>220213850They only did it if they thought they had a chance and could make a statement. Increasingly they stopped. By 1778-1779 what they wore for instance looked like what our “operators” wore by the way. Basically a front plate and overalls, usually light brown with reload gear on the chest plate which was almost a skirt. It was basically farmers overalls with a long sleeve shirt if needed, they tended to go without shirts a lot to stop infractions from clothe driving into the skinAlso Washington did the first vaccination drives He wanted to make statement victories at times so they’d use formations then to convince the rest of Europe the English were fighting an actual army not peasants but he constantly had raids
>>220212805Makes me laugh every time. It's such stupid dad-tier humor, I love it.
>>220213465>why not walking sideways?what if the enemy turns?
>>220212524they had something americans will never have.courage.
>>220214018It makes sense as individual though
>>220212916Cavalry WAS used in musket battles.But only for flanking maneuvers and shit because it's retarded to just charge your horses at the enemy line.
>>220214069Everytime cavalry has been recorded just charging in head on they got raped afaik. Not counting horse archers since they're gameplan is completely.
>>220213039>loseslol
>>220214219This is just Westerners fighting Westerners though. They're brown but they have the whitemans Y chromosome leading them at the very least.
>>220214069
and thus.
The Colonists learned a lot from the natives.
what language am i speaking oh its english, wait, what language are you all speaking oh it's english too huh. yeah man wtf timmy gon do little bad teeth cup'o'tea faggots
>>220214579bro you're probably a irish scottish italian mutt shut the fuck up lol you'll never be a wasp stop the larp
>>220214446Wonder if any chaps riding on these old tanks got run over like a modern Indian. Had to be a couple.
>>220214579what language are the 6 millions pakis and nigerians in london speaking?
>>220212792Wars are not at all fun. 90% of it consists of drudgery and patrols and logistics work. You are also totally at the mercy of your CO or generals.What's more, humans aren't designed for modern warfare. The noise of explosives and gunshots, and the constant threat of being shot or shelled isn't something our psyches can endure over time.
What war's problem?
war was extremely kino in medieval europeknights would rarely kill each other, it was more valuable to capture your enemies and get the ransom from their noble familyplebs maybe died sometimes but not even that often, and they also had their moments such as in Legnano battle against the Emperor
>>220213228They don't actually want reasons, Anon.
>>220214929There's a bunch of other horrible shit I'm sure we're not designed for in warfare too. Still, being in a firefight could, for a short time, be fun, as long as you were "doing well," that is, killing in the enemy and not being killed. Adrenaline, training hopefully comes alive as instinct, that sort of thing. For many there'd be an overwhelming sense of fear most of the time in that situation. But I do see how it could be exciting on rare occasions.
>>220213228address this >>220213465
>Can only fire on average 2 shots a minute (we're not all Sharpe's Rifles).>Weapons are shorter range and not as accurate as modern weapons.>Had to create a wall of fire whilst people reloaded.>Melee still a distinct possibility.>Threat of cavalry too.>So to hold an area you needed a large amount of people.>Early bayonets would plug the barrel so you couldn't fire, until technological improvements created better bayonets.
>>220213465Try and walk sideways across uneven ground in formation at pace with equipment and then try to fire or do anything.
>>220214547Falklands war kino
Why did the Br*ts think it was a good idea to take turns in a duel like a fucking rpg?
>>220213241No, that's *why* the tactic got phased out. Line firing became obsolete when it became possible for one man to fire as many rounds as an entire company in the same time. But prior to that it was the most effective way for large armed forces to face each other.
>>220215655Wait, so a line of a few men firing slings can still break a mass of unarmed thousands?
>>220214001you're not only wrong but also retarded
>>220212524You have no possible way of understanding the psychological effect of hundreds of muskets fired at you in a volley. This alone was enough to break all but seasoned, drilled, professional european lines. And if the volley didn't send you running, the doom march of that same host of thousands of men walking in unison with raised bayonets would. Especially the english bayonet charge, which was so feared even other europeans ran when they saw them doing it. Discipline under fire and drill was paramount for victory. Plus, if you falter even a little you're just food for cavalry
>>220215162skill issue if you can't
>>220215928>english bayonet chargewhat made it special?
>if you just commanded soldiers to walk sideways, it'd cut casualties down 30-50%, and you'd win every battle, conquering Europe where Napoleon and Hitler failed
>>220215647
>>220216023in a word? the english themselves. the redcoats had an inhuman fearlessness to them partly from being drunk and partly from being scottish and irish alot of them that made them unironically demons in a melee. I'm not making it up either, read accounts from soldiers and youll see casual bloodlust and a base level of death defying that truly boggles the mind
>>220212524You know Britain conquered half the world right? Calling them dumb for their tactics makes you sound fucking retard.
>>220214219The Mexicans used the same tactics as Europeans.And the French were attacking uphill fortified positions.And it's virtually the only battle Mexico won in that war. After that the entire country got invaded and they spent the next four years under French occupation until the US scared them away in 1866.
>>220213403Modern military formations are "sit miles away from the engagement and pelt your enemies with air strikes and drones." The weapons determine the best strategy. In a world with muskets and without radios, line formations were the most effective strategy.
>>220216267*blasts your ass with havana waves and storms your presidential palace in hyper armor*your idea of modern warefare is 20 years behind lil pup
>>220215729It depends. If all the thousand charge at once, they obviously win, but no single person wants to be the guy hit during the charge. That could be enough of a deterrent to stop the entire charge.
>>220215647If your opponent is too hasty and misses then you have all the time in the world to fuck him up.
>>220212524britain made the largest empire in the history of the world like this
>>220213668Until bodkin arrows were invented, and more powerful bows, and crossbows and so on. Military technology is a constant arms race - offense tries to one-up defense tries to one-up offense and on and on it goes. The tactics change when the technology can't keep up: Rifles and artillery made armor and shields pointless, and tactics shifted to prioritize superior and concentrated firepower through line firing, and that became the norm until automatic weapons forced another change in tactics; armor that could stop bullets was still too bulky to employ en masse and higher fire rates and bigger artillery lead to trench warfare and then ultimately the adoption of mobilized and combined arms tactics.
>>220213465>t. dancerSideways walking is slower, requires much more coordination, and is much more energetically taxing. Add uneven and slippery ground and it'd be a shitshow instantly, even before accounting for the unnatural torque of the body to keep your gun or bayonet pointed in the direction of the enemy.
>>220212524you niggas need to watch the first 5 mins of free state of jones
>>220216910Most of the British Empire was conquered between 1860 and 1920, so not really in the peak era of musket warfare
>>220215647Don't worry about it Hernandez.You wouldn't understand anyway.
>>220216145Honestly what was his fucking problem?
>>220217081advancing in formations was still standard up until the beginning of WWI when they were forced to stop.
>>220217183>can't explain>can't use proper punctuationESL detected; post disregarded.
>>220212524Their zeal for King and Country trumps survival instinct. You'd feel the same way if your country actually cared about you.
>>220217277ok spic beaner.
>>220217327Speak English, Pedro.
>>220214010If you can handle it, read the books. There are jokes in them where it builds up the entire duration of the book. Patrick O'Brian did a great job with them.
>>220215647>people in the past cared so much about honour they were willing to stand there and let you take a free shot at them just to defend itmad
>>220215928People are really sheltered and have no frame of reference. Earlier, I thought you just had to be brave and "hold the line" in the face of cavalry charges. I couldn't understand why people just did not hold the line.I came to understand everything better after witnessing just 20 Kirghiz horseman charge through a field. Horses they were riding were not war horses, they were lighter steppe horses. They weren't wearing armor either but you could feel the ground shaking under galloping steeds. It felt quite powerful and left an impact on me.Now imagine hundreds of armored knights are galloping towards you on huge war horses. I definitely see people shitting/peeing themselves, losing their nerve and running away.
>>220215647Imagine how awesome it would be to be that kid-- he just won your family fortune back from a brutish charlatan in a duel, risking limb and life. He's gonna elbow deep in pussy.
>>220217230He was Fr*nch. That was enough.
>>220217740it was hard to root for him because I liked Barry more, especially after how despicable of a move it was to take another shot after being shown mercy, but Barry did have it coming
>>220212524>Act arrogant expecting an easy victory>walk straight into perfectly timed canister shot>run away
>>220217310Nobody, except maybe noble officers, would think that way.
>>220218029>NobodyReally? I doubt it.
>>220217802>but Barry did have it comingYeah exactly. Fuck him.
>>220212524THAT'S RIGHT COCKSUCKA, GO BACK TO JERSEY
>>220218190What's this from
>>220218388The Thin Red Line.
>>220216175any links for the lazy? Dying by bayonet seems so terrible.>>220216267Drones have really changed modern warfare. Wonder what the next warfare tech that changes it more will be. Lasers?
>>220218474Anti artillery lasers exist already.
>>220218440
The song is stuck in my head and i keep whistling it outside.
>>220218544Old Hollywood was so kino
>>220212524it's called showing fortitude (and not pissing your diapers), j*ws wouldn't understand
>>220218596Funny as its a Soviet-Italian production.
>>220218544what PS2 game is this from?
>>220217310>your country actually cared about you.That would be interesting, to live in a country like that, where you sort of had a "massive relationship" with your countrymen/countrybrothers. Sucks that many of us won't get to have that experience.
>>220218295For most of history a country was just some lord's demesne. It had no unifying culture or customs that extended to the common person.
>>220217429as opposed to todays west financing their own invaders
>>220215647Did you miss the duel at the start where they fire at the same time?
>>220218801chuds will never understand this. they think the nation state existed since the dawn of time and no amount of explaining can change their tiny minds.
>>220218654Wrong
>>220218847This view is still reconcilable with nation states. But they would be smaller. Like the HRE or Ancient Greece.
>>220218809There is nothing about this that makes it worth your time to clip and post on 4chan, and really knowing about it that makes it worth my time. I want my 0:56 seconds of my life back.Do better chud
>>220218894No. The HRE was not a collection of little nation-states because its territories were not organized around national identities. They were personal domains ruled by princes, bishops, dukes, and cities, tied together through feudal loyalty and imperial law rather than by a shared 'nationality'.
>>220219031Nta but didn't they all speak some version of German?
>>220219062Depends on what you mean by "some version of German". They certainly weren't all mutually intelligible.
>>220219062They spoke different dialects in different parts. Modern nationalism picks one dialect and privileges it over all the others and then considers it "proper" while discriminating against the rest. This happens all over Europe and is happening in China today.
>>220219092Right but they were speaking something closer to modern German than the French or Italian, etc., spoken by their neighbors. They had a common identity in that they weren't part of larger neighboring states too.
>>220218833Did you miss the duel at the end where they took turns? Did you miss the picture I posted from said scene? I missed the part where that's my problem.
>>220219293There were French, Italian, and Czech city states in the HRE too.
>>220219398>Czech No such thing. It's a meme language and a meme country.
>>220219442here comes the chud cope
>>220212916They were using horses, retard.
>>220220434Its true.
It's criminal that /tv/ doesn't get to have gifs with audio. It's just retarded
>>220220507>>220212524Why didn't they run into the woods or to the sides where the enemy would have turned into a dot instead of a line?
>>220218801>no unifying cultureWhat is the church?
>>220218474I don't have any quick alg links my knowledge came from books. I can't remember 100% if it was in this book but I think in Sergeant Morris of the 73rd Foot's recollections he mentions the general feeling extant at the time towards the Redcoat charge somewhere amid his stories. An interesting book nonetheless even if I'm not 100% certain it has the information I'm referencing
>>220212524There's guys behind you who will kill you for breaking rank you just don't see that in the movie. The book is more accurate to how warfare would work you can't just break rank like they do in that scene, Redmond in the book doesn't break rank to carry Grogan's body. Instead he fights in the battle and is then a bit sad when he sees his dead body afterward.
>>220213973well?
>>220218864One of the weirdest parts of Waterloo is that they have the Scots cavalry charge break off, when it never did IRL. They just charged the infantry lines and failed to rout them. I think they just didn't have the budget to film horses running into lines maybe? That's the only explanation I can think of.
>>220213973Czechs had war wagons, that's sort of similar. I don't know why they died out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_wagon
>>220220740horses in movies are really expensive I'm told
>>220220763surely one grape shot round would smash that all to hell
>>220220781but they had already paid to have all the horses and filmed them charge, they just didn't have them hitting the infantry lines.
>>220220815if a horse was killed, PETA would make terrorist attacks against them.
why not shields? The chinks seemed to use them but idk of a battle that this was used against Europeans armies, would it just create a load of splinters when hit and also inhibit the rate of fire?
>>220212830the rules are only the rules until they arent.
>>220212524Something something discipline something something stuff upper lip
>>220220861A movie would be finished filming before peta could do anything, they did manage to piss and moan enough about horses getting killed on that Dustin Hoffman show about horse racing that HBO cancelled it after one season.
They fought this way because most muskets were not that accurate and took a bit of time to reload.With a big formation like this, you could volley fire where a bunch of guys all shoot at once and at least some of them will hit what they're shooting at.Then, while one rank of guys are reloading, the guys behind them step forward and all fire too.By the time they're done shooting the first rank of guys are done reloading, they step forward, fire, and repeat.Once rifles stopped being so inaccurate and armies started getting issued pre-measured charges of powder they started using looser skirmish tactics and smaller units.You can see this in Sharpe where his guys are using Baker rifles which are miles better than the mass produced muskets the regular guys are using. The better equipment means his guys can use different tactics that look more familiar to the modern eye.
>>220212524why didn't the first line of guys walk with a shield?
>>220221326How are you supposed to carry a musket and a shield?
I finally watched this film last week and I absolutely loved it, I'd say I slightly prefer the first half more but the second half is still great. Also Honoria Lyndon is fucking gorgeous.
>>220221378you just carry the shield and the guy behind you shoots over you
>>220221475What's the shield made from?
>>220221553>>220221475>>220221326They were already melting church bells down to have enough iron for shit already they did not have the literal tons of iron that it would take to make shields in quantities enough to be even slightly useful that would just get blown to shit at the first canon ball or cavalry charge anyway
>>220213228How is it determined who the lucky fellows that get to go in the front row are?
>>220213465
>>220221627front row of a line battle wasn't any more dangerous than other parts because after your volley your position changes anyway. if you want to know how it was decided who would be the first in through a breach on a siege, a job that was highly fatal to the point where they had a cute name for it "the forlorn hope" and those men were volunteers. now why would someone volunteer for almost certain death? for money. any survivors of a forlorn hope assault were given what was called a commission which was basically a pension for life and a promotion. which was huge for what were most likely simple farm people that's pure success and damn near a ticket to the middle class at a single stroke
>>220221785Adam Smith talked about how surprising it was that the British armed forces never had any trouble finding volunteers, despite the fact that soldiers lived in some of the worst conditions imaginable, faced gruesome death routinely and had extremely low pay to top it off. His explanation was that human beings always see themselves as special. Every solider thought that somehow, he'd rise up in the ranks and win glory for himself. Usually they just ended up dead in a ditch somewhere far away from home.
>>220221620And even if they did it doesn't really seem feasible to carry a giant chunk of iron into battle.
>>220222452What about some bags of sand
>>220222512mmmm milkies
>>220222122>His explanation was that human beings always see themselves as special. Every solider thought that somehow, he'd rise up in the ranks and win glory for himself.But officer ranks were only held by nobleman?
>>220212524If you didn't fight like that you would lose to people who did.
>>220214414Picking up some homoerotic undertones here. I will be leaving this thread now.
>>220218474> Wonder what the next warfare tech that changes it more will be. Lasers?racemixing
>>220212524you fucker. you've been making these dipshit threads on /k/ and /his/ for ages, and now you're reduced to fucking /tv/? Are you so afraid of getting btfo'd that you'll prey on the ignorance of the spics and jeets here?
>>220218544I wonder how many injuries there were during production? Had to have been a lot, it's guaranteed whenever Italians, Russians, horses, and sharp objects are mixed together like that
>>220216245the real enemy of the french was disease, they lost more men from it than in battle
>>220222122>His explanation was that human beings always see themselves as special.That, and people aren't very smart.
>>220222122>>220224371There's a reason why they primarily hired young men who they gassed up with nationalism, and race and religion wars. A bit like people who sign up to join the US military to die for Trump and Epstein.
>>220224630Preach, sister
>>220224630I wish I could upvote this comment with some gold.
>>220224630More like when young people signed up for the army after 9/11 to take EARTH BACK.
>>220224699>>220224810Triggered
>>220212524Using tactics was considered to be dishonorable at that time.
>>220226205Those are tactics, very careful ones.
>>220213465Crabmaxxing.
>>220213777>Romans in TeutoburgThis, but I imagine slaughtering them with guns. Same with charlemagne and his forces.
>>220215647He should have cast Reflect, what a moron
>>220212524>This is so fucking dumb. Didn't they have survival instincts?Its less retarded than it seems.The British trained a lot with bayonets. Typically they'd lay volleys into the enemy till the order for bayonets came then they'd advance at a quick; but controlled pace so they didn't get fatigued then they'd charge right before they reached the enemy. A lot of the enemies they faced lacked the discipline to hold their line in the face of a bayonet charge and they'd break ranks and get slaughtered. Those tactics worked really well against the Continental army and particularly against the militias during the early days of the revolution; but later on we got better training and learned how to fight back against bayonets and we started winning battles against the British. Still worked great on most of the swarthy savages the British Empire was facing though.
>>220214414Look at that curved sword. On the wall, behind him
>>220222540>But officer ranks were only held by nobleman?Absolutely not. In the red coat army, noble officers were a minority. Most who purchased their commission (literally bought an officer's rank) were wealthy commoners. The very highest ranks could not be bought at all. And even during the time of this purchase system (it was abolished in the late 19th century), a certain percentage of promotions had to be done from the ranks, by merit. Some branches like the navy, or artillery only promoted on merit with no officer commissions for sale at all.https://youtube.com/watch?v=w-1a74BlRuY&pp=0gcJCVACo7VqN5tDiggUQAFKEDJDSHgyazdZRTlPQXRpZU0%3D
>>220217230He losthe was barbarian brained enough that he always saw everything as an insult that required satisfaction and then he tried that same shit against someone he finally didn't clearly win against (and probably would've outright died if not for the woman jumping in) so he subconsciously held that for the rest of his life
>>220220920shields that are man portable will hardly do shit against guns, cannons especiallyearly gunpowder warfare carried shields around because they were still facing off against lots of archers and spearmen who needed to work past it
>>220221627volunteers or punishmentvanguards get more pay
>>220214219>leaves out the casualties due to how insignificant the battle really wasYou're feces colored and smell like beans.
>>220224208That's a lot of armies, most of them probably, disease and desertion Battles really weren't all that bloody in general, not until late modern era, most casualties were sustained after the battle was already won during the rout. War is just a test of morale, food and training and equipment are all just functions of making your soldiers more confident in or desperate for success. Completely unbreakable maniacs with rocks and sticks stand a decent chance against cowards with machine guns.
>musketmen HATE this one tactic!
>>220217002Bows can't penetrate armor.
>>220218847Braindead leftoids, pardon the pleonasm, think that the nation state being a fairly modern concept means that peoples didn't share language, religion, cultural practices, blood ties, or that they were somehow incapable of recognizing that the traits they shared betwen themselves also made them different from others. Aristotle was referring to Greeks and barbarians long before any Greek nation state existed because Greek was an identity that long predated it.
>>220213228They dont care anonYou could rattle on about the logistics of 17th century warfare all day if you want and explain in detail why the peopel acted the way they did but these people dont want to be educated they just want to shit on it and meme about a subject they know nothing about to feel smarter than they actually are
>>220230100it's just trolls trolling trolls, like half this website.
>>220217230Feraud was of lower social extraction and had a chip on his shoulder.
Human fucking shits.
>>220218474Antimatter weapons. One shot can vaporize a whole city.
>>220214219>1862anon, Mexico was a full modernized country by that time
>>220220523Agreed. I've made threads about this too.I think right now 4chan is losing money and Hiro is too depressed and reclusive to come out and make any changes
>>220230100Trvth.
>>220218863They're not.
>>220212830Third world cope. You are probably an african or even worse, indian.
>>220218864
>>220212524>>220220920>>220221326>>220221475I always felt the same - if you can field such gigantic armies, it would surely be feasible to equip the first line with iron shields. the weapons at that time weren't strong enough for the enemy to break it. And the second line could hide behind those shields when the enemy fires their shots.
>>220231850based.
>>220231934Not decisive. You want to get at the enemy, not hide behind shields.
>>220231934How much does the shield weigh and how is it transported when not in use?
>>220212667> march> stand up when the volleys hit> don't crouch> don't sprawl> take the bullet> whole unit decimated from the first volley except the lads in the back> repeatno that sounds retarded
>>220232838You sound like you're still seething about being conquered by people using these exact tactics.
>>220232870friend, both sides used them and both sides were equally retarded
>>220231934I think an important factor too was the availability of forgeable metals, the relative Supply & Demand of metals compared to the "cheapness" of life. (metal is pricey, life is cheap..in a way)To the point where, a lot of history may have been decided before anyone set foot on the battlefield, simply by whomever happened to have settled near copper/iron deposits.Not a historian. Thoughts?(pic loosely related)
>>220231974the first guy really went for it unlike those other fucks.
>>220212916Better run and tire myself out before getting near the enemy.
>>220232931Africa has so many metals they should have taken over the entire world.
>>220213039Seeing Arthur Wellesley listed with his name is odd
>>220222122for a man who's famous for writing on the subject, it's surprising that he couldn't see the obvious material motivations involved. Pic rel had the right of it when he pointed out that most volunteers were complete fuck-ups looking to escape debts, pay for their bastards, etc. You only get the idealist bravado after you start disciplining them.
>>220232797Using shitgpt:>Estimated Penetration:>Given the relatively low velocity and mass of a musket ball compared to modern ammunition, a musket bullet would typically have difficulty penetrating thick steel armor. However, historical records suggest that a musket ball could penetrate:>Soft steel: About 1-3 mm of softer steel at close range.>Harder steel: With harder or thicker steel, penetration would be much less, perhaps only 1 mm or less.>Density of steel: The density of steel typically ranges from 7,750 to 8,050 kg/m3. We'll use 7,850 kg/m3 as an average value for this calculation.>A 3 mm x 2 meter x 50 cm steel plate would weigh approximately 23.55 kg.So technically doable, and it would have been a logical continuation of the pavisse.my bet is that it just cost too much to do (pre-industrial revolution) versus the lives of a bunch of peasants, so why bother?
>>220233257>technically doableHow the fuck is carrying a 50lb steel plate in front of you doable? And how is it transported when not in battle? Do the men carry it themselves or do you have to find more draft animals to carry them when on the march?
>>220218705I'm starting to understand. I don't think us millennials had this unless you grew up in some based country like Poland.
>>220212524sometimes I think they should have worn some light padding on the face or something like a half helmet but for your cheeks and eyes. Mostly for all debris, not to block bullets. I feel like going into battle would be like going into a workshop during work hours it's gonna full of dust and shit all getting in your eyes and little rocks wanting to go into your cheeks fuck that.
>>220233309
>>220232797>>220233257Even if you are able to, you're sacrificing firepower for defense.The formation that musketmaxes will overwhelm you, and ironically suffer less casualties because they were able to end the engagement with a decisive victory.>>220233309Also this
>>220213465the fencing stance for muskets.
>>220233309>howHandles and wheels. You don't have to constantly carry it, just while advancing. Basically like a mantelet.But yes, the logistics make it probably not worth it. Why waste another mule on carrying a shield when it can carry more ammunition/food. Just round up some new peasants when the lines get a bit thinned out.
>>220212524That's the point when you talk about the military. They follow orders. Nazis followed evil orders. Americans will follow evil Trump orders.>they have no survival instincts?They do, but they shoved into their minds that they need to follow orders.
>>220233309Not that anon but you're 100% right. The British commandos in WW2 would train with 50lb packs on their backs. They could speed march hundreds of miles carrying these, but this was the modern special forces. Your average soldier back then couldn't carry that into battle for 20 minutes let alone sprint into close quarters with it.That last part is essential as well. The whole point of pitched battle warfare was to run at the enemy in a way that made them turn and run away. Once they break, it's over. Until then it's all about morale. Every general knew this from Alexander the Great to Napoleon.
The scene is completely inaccurate btwThe French fire like 10 times in just a couple of minutes, and there is NO FUCKING SMOKEIn reality they would attempt to hold fire until they were as close as possible and one side would break with a bayonet charge, then repeat.
>>220212524You wouldn't use man-held shields if you were going to go with a "shields up" sort of doctrine you'd just build war wagons and use those as mobile walls like those faggots did that one time. But even then you'd still need to sortie outside the wall and at that point it's be the same as this.
>>220232976The people are less evolved humans
>>220233517>peasants You don't understand what this word means ranjeesh. Peasants produced things like food and were usually too valuable to waste on warfare. The rank and file of militaries of this era were the scum of the earth, the mere scum of the earth.
>>220233656Yes, that's what I said. Peasants. They breed like rats and there's always too many of them anyway. That's why it's good Noble husbandry to regularly cull your herds by starting a jolly war with your fellow Nobles.
>>220233657Sir Ridley's last good movie.
>>220233657this movie just isnt good IMO but I cant figure out why I dont like it.
>>220233791But they didn't recruit from the peasants because peasants already had jobs. Lower class and peasant aren't necessarily synonymous.
>>220233814Fuck. Off.
>>220233880Love you Ridley.
>>220230320Now try that again if the spear is double or even thrice that length.
>>220222122I truly think the English people were and maybe still are uniquely suited for hardship and battle and happily bunking in appalling conditions for months or years at a time. It's definitely not a human universal about feeling special, it's just the English, scottish, and irish mindset from the noble on a horse to the grunt in the ditch. This remarkable combination of fatalism, alcoholism, and gallows humor>>220224630People in those days felt an ownership of their country. And when one's country was doing well, the average person experience benefits. All those shipping lanes opened for England brought in tons of wealth and the defeated countries were often in sorry states for years. Nobody wanted to be a subject in a kingdom paying tribute to another or to have lost a colony and with it a whole sector of the economy
>>220224630>A bit like people who sign up to join the US military to die for Trump and Epstein.Does anybody actually join the US military for patriotic reasons these days? My understanding was that most soldiers are trying to escape poverty or get their university education funded by the government.
>>220234530
>>220233604by that time bayonet charges were extremely rare
>>220234583based war wolf.
>>220213228>Expensive, heavy, and required high maintenance. Legionnaires had slaves, knights had assistants, redcoats had no one.The second one being the most important. Any armor thick enough to withstand a musket shot was also too heavy to wear on foot, even if it's just a breastplate.
>>220231187>anon, Mexico was a full modernized country by that timeThis, it wasn't crime-ridden third world shithole as nowadays
>>220217230d'Hubert insulted him a little bit
Someone probably put it elsewhere in the thread, but it actually was effective for the time. The whole point is volume of fire. A musket doesn't have great accuracy, actually aiming takes time, and after you get enough smoke and gunpowder residue everywhere I imagine it would be even worse. The thought process is you get everyone trained and in sync so they can just fire forward. Rifles back then weren't really standardized in the same way muskets were (mind you, muskets weren't exactly exactly the same either, but paper cartridges could at least be more standard), had to be cleaned more (I believe) and took longer to reload. A unified force with more bullets down range outweighed trying to have a few scattered people taking pot shots from a distance.
>>2202351533 shots a minute was standard, seasoned soldiers could do 4+. in practice only the first few volleys were your typically seen in movies "ready! take aim! fire!" full volleys, after that it did descent into fire at will. For short engagements, two volleys would sometimes be enough to break the enemy and you march down and they run. Longer fights you'd want to be together with your unit because you piled the dead up as barriers and walls to provide cover plus you had to be together to make a square if cavalry ever came. It was essential, you'd die if you couldn't make and maintain a tight square in the face of cavalry
>>220212524Statistically you were only maimed by such a wound and died horribly of infection later.
>>220212524They had to do that because if they didn't and the other side did they'd lose.
>>220213228Thank fuck there's at least one person with a brain in here. >hurr durr why they just stand in a straight line? That's the kind of question a grade schooler asks when they first learn about 18th century warfare. Heaven forbid people do a bit of research on one of the most commonly asked and answered questions about the time period.
>>220213241It only became retarded due to the relatively recent invention of the machine gun and major improvements in artillery. Nobody was prepared for what ww1 would bring. The armies that marched off to war in 1914 look indistinguishable from those that fought in the Franco Prussian war or even the Napoleonic wars.
>>220213850Rifles did exist in the revolution but they were very few in numbers and so you would have sometimes a sharpshooter stationed in the trees of a distant flank trying to get an opportunity to take out an officer or NCO. Losing one of them could oftentimes send a section of the line into disorganized chaos making a prime opening for a cavalry charge.
>>220218919>troon posts his autogynephilia collectionWhy?
There's something incredibly based about dressing up as a peacock, and then march shoulder to shoulder on open field in order to shoot other dudes at a close distance.
>>220235914This guy has also listened to Blueprints for Armageddon by Dan Carlin.
>>220212916>one guy trips>50 wounded
>>220214219ruling elite of mexico was white, you dumb browncel
>>220232971You'd have to be fit.
>>220236127Indeedy. Hardcore history is one of my favorite things to listen to during busy work.
Would you erectly march into battle behind a fat guy with a pony tail, /tv/?
>>220212805What retard edited this to not include the reaction and comeback? Fucking morons.
>>220236127Used to listen to Carlin often, still do occasionally, but his intonation and almost randomly bringing up Wikipedia level factoids started to bug me. His content is still interesting enough to listen to, but it could be better. I think the Japanese Supernova series is my favorite.
>>220213228I'd like to add this: a musket is basically a spear. You kind of have to operate in the same way that spear-men have operated since the dawn of war. The phalanx is not famed for it's maneuverability. At least with a musket you don't have to bunch up shoulder to shoulder. However, muskets are still big and heavy and long, plus you have to carry a lot of other shit with you at the same time to support your new fancy spear. Running with a musket in hand is unwieldy; running with it strapped to your back is better, but then it might take like 10 seconds to set up when you need to shoot, plus you'll be less accurate sine you're tired from running with 40 pounds of shit on you PLUS your uniform is heavy and hot and probably hasn't been washed in weeks, not to mention the stupid big hats some of them had to wear. And that's just one dude, imagine a line of 10 men with muskets in hand running. They would be knocking each others teeth out constantly if they want to try and maintain any close formation. People like OP also seem to forget line formation, like everything else, was countered. The reasons that make line formations make sense for muskets are the same reasons they make sense for guerrilla warfare. I think Americans have the view that all europium warfare was just dudes in straight lines for like 300 years (until ww1, then it's dudes in straight line in a ditch) despite the fact that most of what I'd think of as famous battles in the American Revolution being were very much not that. Washington's whole deal was he wanted to avoid pitched battles.
>>220214069>cavalry WAS used in musket battles>except it kinda wasn'tAny other historical wisdom you'd like to impart, o wise /k/ master?
>>220214547Fake and historically inaccurate-pilled: they're not using Lee-Enfields.
>>220213241Try using something else to stop a cavalry charge or something. Group firing is still a tactic to this day. Concentration of fire>individual firing in most circumstances so 1000 musket balls all at once > disparate firing from random bunches
If anyone cares you should read On War by Carl von Clausewitz. He also invented war gaming.
>>220237130Zulu War - 1879Lee-Enfield - introduced 1895
>>220233257>cost too much ... versus the lives of a bunch of peasants,So true, especially since those peasants that didn't pay their taxes were the first to get drafted and likely sent to the front of the front lines.
>>220212524all wars are depop events. leaders on both sides agree to kill as many of their men as possible and one side is selected to be looted
>>220233814>>220233880He was never the same once his son murdered him & his wife after Conan's Xmas party.
>>220234583Why do they make it cutting the trigger rope? They'd run out of rope before long.
>>220234619not reallyBritish tactics in the American revolution were based almost entirely on the bayonetI would recommend reading With zeal and with bayonets only by Matthew Spring
>>220213241Bows and arrows were far superior to those shitty muskets
>>220237461Apples to oranges ofc. Muskets got better. Early iterations of b&a were ass, too.
>>220212524How they did it in that movie is not realistic btw. or at least not representative. Just marching at the enemy, without firing, is done when you're in a special situation and need to break the enemy line RIGHT FUCKING NOW (in that specific spot), kind of like a spearhead to break up the enemy formation. And you would do it with overwhelming local superiority (arranged in a column) because otherwise you just get shot to pieces while you advance and your attack will fail.The normal mode of attack was move into range, fire, advance a little, fire some more, and so on. And often you might just move into range, start firing, never advance until the enemy runs away because he's exhausted or flanked or something. Not every attack is on a tight schedule.
>>220237707were you there?
>>220238222Whites have this thing where they actually write shit down. Hard concept for some cultures to grasp but we can do this thing called citing records.
>>220214980Killing women, children and elderly because some shit theory about dominoes
>>220238258There are 147 McDonalds in Vietnam now. America won.
>>220234583fuck CGI. won't watch it.
>>220238521They could have had the same without thousands of dead americans and hundreds of thousands of dead vietnamese.
>>220233493POOR NED
>>220238832idkif north vietnam just invaded south vietnam soviet and chinese spec ops would have been able to move on to organize / gas light other countries to do the same (allegedly)now what did happen definitively was that the north vietnamese developed a very strong sense of nationalism from all the fighting (keep in mind at this point it would have been for decades vs the French, Japanese, French again, then America) and became disassociated with the rest of the communist aligned world, openly defying "suggestions" from their wartime "benefactors" to play according to the propaganda line, leading to the Sino-Vietnamese war among other things.Nowadays, Vietnam is undoubtedly in the US sphere of things
>>220213228Another thing to add is that arquebusiers were originally used mostly as skirmishers in the preceding era of pike and shot. In a Spanish tercio formation, they would engage the enemy with largely independent fire in a loose formation and retreat to a block of pikemen or other armored infantry if they were threatened. One of the reasons pike and shot was phased out was because arming, training and recruiting pikemen was a lot more resource- and time-consuming than with arquebusiers. During the Dutch Revolt, the Dutch army ended up becoming mostly arquebusier as a result. In response, Maurice of Nassau devised tactics to turn this to his advantage by using old Roman drills to maximize firepower by revolving squads within a formation. The Japanese independently developed a similar technique at the same time. The Tercio model would be amended and refined further by, among other, the Swedes during the 17th century, ultimately resulting in a way of warfare at the end of it that was very different than at the start, consisting largely of highly-drilled musketmen in packed formations.
>>220238521Isn’t that more to the point? It seems like post WW2, most aims can be achieved without war.
>>220224630>>220222122Most recruits were impoverished or coerced in some manner to join 18th century armies. Some countries like France and several small German states imposed conscription, which obviously wasn't popular either. Desertion rates were therefore also high.
>>220212524War was a gentlemanly pursuit once... Then all the browns got involved.
>>220234619Bayonet COMBAT was very rare, as the point of a charge was to force the enemy to retreat or break
>>220217230Manlet rage. We've been over this hundreds of times.
>>220232264It's also useful to stay alive.
>>220239208>chinese spec ops Lmao
>>220241101Aided by the mexican spic ops.
