Why to this day are people so extreme and binary about this movie? Why does it have to be 'it totally sucked' or 'it's the best SW film ever' always? Why can't it be "it's flawed but there are great scenes and some interesting ideas in it," which is what the case actually is?
>>220313326
>>220313326>some interesting ideas in itWhich ones? Because I think you just made that up to bolster your argument.
>>220313326Its not good, but neither are any of the star wars sequels. so fuck it
>>220313326Binary??? You're a faggot fucking troll implying there's people out there that genuinely like this movie, that's just patently false since the reaction to it killed all interests in the future movies, including solo and the last movie in the trilogyThe better question is why do you continue to spam the board with these faggot troll posts and why can't you admit that this movie was made to be intentionally shit
>>220313435Not sure if seriously asking, but either way:>failure as a core theme>deconstruction of the Jedi as a myth/acknowledging their legacy as flawed>the Force belongs to everyone (not just special bloodlines)>tension between "kill the past" vs learn from it>war profiteering/both sides funded by elites>leadership does not equal reckless heroics>Force connection between enemies>the importance of differing perspectives>hope as survival/inspiration, Luke goes out literally projecting the version of himself everyone needed to see in order to spread the message of hope across the cynical galaxy againBear in mind that none of this is to defend shit like Leia flying through space or the casino sidequest that eats up 30 minutes, I'm just talking thematically. Meanwhile the theme of TROS is 'vapid fanservice for 2 hours.'
>>220313326I just liked the Luke scenes and thought everything else was trashAlthough in defense of Rian he had to inheret all the shitty characters from Abrams and find something for them to do, but usually unsuccessfully
>>220313490I liked it fine enough. TFA was a bland New Hope reheat and TROS was just laughable dogshit. TLJ was still not great but it was the only one with an actual creative vision that had something it wanted to say.
>>220313326The movie is actually pretty impressive considering it was made by someone who wasn't a hardcore SW fan.Meanwhile, JJ Abrahams who claimed to be a huge SW nerd actually made shit.
>>220313326women ruined star wars.
>>220313326Are you rian johnson or just trying to like larp as himYou have to be sitting there giggling to yourself about how you got away with ruining an entire star wars movie and trilogy, your butt buddy jew jew abrams basically took all the heat and has basically been blacklisted to a degree and you got to fuck off to make those faggy low quality wes anderson type murder mysteriesWhy do you want to bring attention to yourself and remind people of your subversive deconstruction, you must have an insanely large and inflated ego, if you think we should be praising the piece of shit you shat out I personally would think you would want to put this shit behind you and not call attention to it, but there must be some huge amount of hubris or guilt going on, you're trying to deal with, maybe you feel embarrassed when people mention in passing about your time filming and can't live down that you can't come straight out and say you purposely fucked the production on purpose, is that what's eating at your soul if you even have one
>>220313800Nonsense comment since a woman actually co-wrote Empire Strikes Back. Look it up.
I think the first half isn't bad. it doesnt come across as hollow as TFA or as much of a fucking mess as TROS. I think Hammil does well with what hes given. thats about all i can give it
>>220313818>anyone who has anything positive to say about a film must be its director?????????
I'm not a SW fan really, can someone explain what it is about this film in particular that rustles people's feathers so much? I've seen clips and it doesn't look any different than the million other SW projects, they all have stupid shit in them but apparently this is the one that "killed the franchise"?
>>220313326it is pretentious which makes midwit redditors think it is deep, but it's actually a hollow boring stupid cringe movie. there is also a second layer to it in the sphere of gay culture warring, the movie was implicitly supposed to be an icon of left wing art packed with their virtues, so that influences the reddit media-minded desire to depict it as deep. the same reason they would go out of the way to worship black panther or captain marvel.
>>220313326it's not a very good movieit's also the only Star Wars sequel that had anything remotely interesting to sayit's very well shot but also missing the dynamism that Abrams' hashalf of what makes it suck is dumb shit from TFA that Rian Johnson had to follow up on and wouldn't have worked regardless of who made it, and the other half is from retarded self-owns Rian madethe fanbase was polarized enough that no one was willing to overlook its shortcomings the way they did on past movies, I've seen the argument that if Empire Strikes Back was released today it would be almost as divisive as TLJ
>>220313717nigger
>>220313326Because it does suck, and whatever “interesting” ideas it presented are invariably tainted with the headcanon of the person relaying them rather than what’s actually in the film.That aside, it’s also incredibly tedious and does not respect the viewer’s time.
>>220313326Part of why the discourse is so extreme is because a large number of people in the pro-TLJ camp (seemingly ALL of those vocally defending it with YouTube videos and such) do so because they've been convinced that the film's critics are their political opponents.
>>220313326>it's flawedIt killed Star Wars, a brand worth of of 45 billion dollars.>there are great scenes There are not.>and some interesting ideas in it,Some of the dumbest ideas ever put on screen.You can take solace in the fact that while TLJ is one of the worst movies ever made, it is still not the worst Ryan Johnson movie. That would be Glass Onion.Muh engagement won't save you btw, just ask Acolyte.
>>220313919being sold to disney is what ruined the franchise.
>>220313326>Why can't it be "it's flawed but there are great scenes and some interesting ideas in it," which is what the case actually is?Most of the "great scenes" either just rely on good cinematography, or are things that don't hold up under any scrutiny; usually making no sense for the overall plot or themes that are trying to be portrayed. And pretty much every "interesting idea" is something that was touched on in Star Wars in some way already, a large bulk of them in previous movies, and the rest in various EU and new canon materials. So if you're a bigger fan, even of just the movies, it's just retreading already explored concepts, but doesn't go into any extra depth. It's both bad on its own and bad as part of the bigger whole, but because it's got a few nice shots and relies on subversion, it hits a sweet spot in Reddit users' brains that it's a groundbreaking masterpiece.
>>220313876I can't think of anyone that would want to come here and beg for praise for such a piece of garbage, other than himI think I read somewhere that jew jew abrams and him are notorious faggot trolls and they've always had this plan to get the reigns of these franchises and fuck them over and guess what they failed upwards enough to make it happen
>>220313717>the Force belongs to everyone (not just special bloodlines)Good job outing yourself as someone reading off a script while pretending to be a neutral third party.If you can’t tell why this is fucking stupid, ask yourself how many of the multitude of Jedi not named skywalker have a special bloodline, then ask yourself how many times the Jedi persecute anyone who isn’t part of the cult that, in any actual star wars product, mandates hatred, dominance and murder to even use the force.
>>220313919if you havent watched them then it will have no meaning to you but episode 8 was supposed to have a lot of answers to why the galaxy is under threat by kylo ren, the first order and snoke, why luke is hiding, what happened to the new jedi order and ruin johnson just decided to fuck it up entirely, he wanted a deconstruction of star wars with expectations subverted for subversion's sake, killing snoke when he was supposed to be super important to the new trilogy's story etc
I actually blame force awakens more. Its the laziest movie maybe ever in terms of how it was written (just a beat for beat remake of a new hope). up until its ending which is a pointless cliffhanger ending mid scene when luke is introduced. and then when last jedi comes out you realized nobody wrote anything after that cliffhanger, rian johnson just ignored everything and did whatever he felt like. so the whiplash of 1 extremely safe and generic almost remake followed by something that barely connects at all to what proceeded it just completely ruined the whole story. so in summary: force awakens too lazy and safe, last jedi too distant and contradictory, and rise of skywalker is just terrible because it has no reasonable way to wrap things up based on the tough spot it was put in
>>220314019true, but george lucas himself chose to do that. so its really his fault still
>>220313818>wes anderson type murder mysteries
>>220314155the farce awakens really suffers from the classic jj abrams mystery box bullshithe is famous for setting things up and not having a satisfying conclusion like in lost, i dont know why in the world disney decided to put him in charge, we meme that it is mister plinkett that did this but it cant be right
>>220314017glass onion was complete dogshit. somebody recommended that to me and after watching it I never looked at them the same way
I was on board and enjoying it (just about) until Luke died. Incredibly stupid way for him to go out that was mandated by external marketing needs.
>>220314155all these posts deflecting to his butt buddy jew jew abrams to try and protect some non-existent credibility rian johnson never had and never will have is so laughably stupidhow many samefag posts have you made saying the same exact thing above this, what is this the third or forth onefunny how this thread pops back up after rumors they are decanonizing the sequel trilogy, must really string to know how mainstream it is and acceptable it is to disregard your faggot subversion, literally no one wants what you were selling, everyone wants to throw your work in an incinerator and pretend it never fucking existed in the first place lol too bad it's not legal yet to hunt faggots like you down and lynch your faggot ass, hopefully soon though
whats really wrong with the sequel trilogy is that 30 years after return of the jedi all the main characters have become huge failures. It completely un does the happy ending of the OT for no reason other then justify its own existence. and then also the sequels skip over many events which would have made for better movies then the things we actually get to see. its like everything was already ruined off screen by the time force awakens happens timeline wise.
>>220314155Imo the problem is that Jonson didn’t subvert enough.JJ set up a scenario where he implied the status quo had completely returned to the OT style, but never actually confirmed anything outside five planets we don’t know the significance of getting blown up.Then Jonson plays that implication entirely straight by having it completely back to the OT atmosphere, where the FO is just as powerful as the empire was and the rebe-resista-rebels are the plucky, hopelessly outnumbered, underdogs again.Jonson had carte blance to do whatever the fuck he wanted and he went with the most absolute boring follow up ever, spiced only with a dash of utter stupidity with the Luke resolution
>>220314555the first order never should have been super powerful like the empire, it made no sense. but disney was desperate for it to be good rebels against evil empire again to further ripoff the originals.
>>220314555yea, didn't subvert enough, why didn't he make everyone a black trannyfuck off, nigger
>>220314555>>220314635I would not even set it in space and there wouldn't be a war. no bigger subversion of "star wars" then ground peace.
Rian attempted to tell a story to a fanbase that has thrown an autistic tantrum over every attempt at storytelling for decades now.What the audience wanted was The Force Awakens repeated at them on a loop every 2-3 years.Don't remind them of the prequels. Don't have Luke do anything but swing a lightsaber around. Don't rock the boat.
>>220314635Are you blind or too retarded to read a post beyond the first sentence?
>>220314700I just wanted (and still want) star wars to stop being made. I want it to end permanently.
>>220314700crappy baitfuck off, nigger
Nobody sincerely liked this film, it just attracted contrarian cocksuckers who claim it's good because of how aggressively hated it is. And the hate is absolutely merited. It's not just an atrocious Star Wars film, it's a bad film in general, with a laughable idiot plot whose author clearly forgot what he wrote from scene to scene.
>>220315071>Nobody sincerely liked this filmvery true. Its why nobody wants to watch that now, it was just a really dumb culture war hill to die on. not an actual movie you want to rewatch because you truly enjoyed it
>>220313326>Why to this day are people so extreme and binary about this movie?They're not. People who claim to like it are invariably dishonest as to why, while people who dislike it are generally honest about it.There is no binary, there's just people who have varying levels of antipathy contrasted with performative cheerleaders.
>>220314700>Rian attempted to tell a storyAttempted and failed. >entire premise of movie is slow-speed space chase>except our heroes can come and go from the chase as they like, so we can fill a third of the movie's run-time with an irrelevant side plot that goes nowhere>virtually all the drama in the film is resistance fighters bickering with each other due to plot-induced stupidity>also Luke being a curmudgeon who completely turned his back on everything he stood for in previous movies for poorly explained reasons>nobody in this movie is competent or likeable >in the end most of the people in the slow-speed chase die because they choose to evacuate to a nearby planet to make a suicidal last stand>they could've just sent small groups of people off the ship in multiple trips since the First Order were apparently unable to stop Finn and Rose leaving and returning to the ship during their retarded side quest to the casino planet>but nope, gonna do a desperate final stand on a planet nobody lives on or cares about, dying for absolutely no reason>this is punctuated by Rose literally killing herself to save Finn after chiding him not to kill himself to save othersSuch a fucking stupid movie. This isn't even close to everything, it's just so fucking dumb. Could write a whole post just about Holdo the fucking retard.
>>220315071>>220315343I sincerely wonder how many people who professed to liking the movie actually tried rewatching it. Even if you don't care about it butchering the core themes of star wars, the movie is so fucking boring that it's a slog to sit through.
>>220313818>If you enjoyed The Last Jedi you do not care about Star Wars. You don't care about the transcending, timeless power of stories and myths and archetypes.I'm convinced nobody on this board actually watched the movie.The movie is entire ABOUT the transcending, timeless power of stories and myths and archetypes. That's the plot of the movie. It is spelled out to you in excruciating detail.I don't think the point could have been made more obvious unless Luke literally looked at the camera and said "AND THAT KIDS IS THE POWER OF STORIES MYTHS AND ARCHETYPES"I feel like Alex Jones screaming into the void every time this movie comes up in conversation>These are CHILD LEVEL ideas. CHILD LEVEL. How can you not understand it?
>>220315357The moral of the movie is that evil wins because good is dumb, which I believe is a quote from Dark Helmet.
>>220315452lol you can't even give a single example of this nonsense that you typed, you don't even try to back it up. You fucking cretin
>>220315452Because it's so incompetently written that nobody takes it seriously.You have an entire subplot about breaking down the mythos of heroes (using absolutely childish logic to do so, no less) and then someone having a last stand in the middle of nowhere, witnessed only by people who would never repeat it, to save less than two dozen people, is supposed to plaster over all that?Fuck off. Don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining.
>>220315357>Rose literally killing herself Rose never died
>>220313326It’s a lame remake of Empire Strikes Back. It’s a fitting follow up to The Force Awakens, which was a lame remake of Star Wars (or A New Hope, as it’s called now).However, Disney sent out talking points to influencers and critics, and one is that TLJ “did something new,” and that people who didn’t like it were “afraid of change.”A lot of people get all their opinions from influencers, so this is parroted a lot. The cognitive dissonance is why the film is so controversial.It wouldn’t be as decisive if more people just said “I liked it because I liked ESB and this is a cool new take on it. I clapped when I saw the battle of Hoth again, it made me nostalgic”
>>220313326I’m not the most frequent film watcher or anything, but TLJ was, without a doubt, the worst movie I watched during the decade of the 2010s.There’s so much jumping from place to place, with a slew of characters I couldn’t give less of a shit about, and then it just sort of ends.But at least they got themselves the Star Wars branding.
It's objectively a bad movie anon. Even if you are not a fan and go into this movie as a standalone with no knowledge of previous movies its fucking bizarre. Tons of moments in the movies that contradict itself and are just tone deaf. The movie ends with the protagonists dealing with a defeat. What should have been a somber ending turns around and is a very happy moment despite literally being defeated.
>>220315585>to save less than two dozen peopleAnd thats somehow a bad thing?
>>220315452you're a pompous fart sniffing faggot contrarian, mr johnsonyou'll always be a hack and the cornerstone people can point to that brought upon the death and decay of the film industry, you believe in nothing so you are nothing and will never be anything more than nothingyou're even bad at being a troll
>>220315734they were trying to fight to save a galaxy of billions of people. dying to save a few dozen is pointless in that context
>>220313326because the two groups are paid shills and actual people.
>>220313326>it's the best SW film evernever happened, people who like it say it's a decent movie at best, it's mostly the og trilogy boomers, that's how you know this is just a contrarian opinion to try to own the prequel trilogy
>>220313326only retards like it
>>220315760Luke has risked his life to save significantly less people multiple times in the OT
>>220315734Don't be obtuse. It's simply not an act that would spark the reaction Jonson wants. He's showing us a selfless sacrifice that few will ever know about, while framing it as a grand gesture to inspire billions.In a better movie, RoTJ for example, this act would work just fine, because the sacrifice is for a personal goal. In TLJ it falls flat because Jonson is contradicting his own script in order to dictate to the audience what the sacrifice means.
>>220315846You understand that the purpose of a story and myth isn't solely to inspire the people who were there to witness it personally right? In fact that's the exact opposite. If billions of people witnessed it first hand there'd be no need for a story at all.
>>220315805those were better movies full of characters the audience actually cared about
>>220315896Are you being willfully dense?The problem the movie has is that it's trying to imply Luke's sacrifice is some well known event that would spread through the galaxy like wildfire, while giving absolutely no vector for it to spread.The people who would spread the story knew nothing about it, and the people who knew would never spread it.It's a glaring problem because the movie went to great pains to show how nobody gives a shit about the resistance
>>220315974>and the people who knew would never spread it.Why would the surviving resistance members not spread this story?
>>220313326Holy FUCK do they have you disney shills busy today lmao
>>220316016Why would anyone care? The movie already showed us that they were left to die by everyone except Rey and Luke.Are you grasping the problem yet?Obi-Wan's sacrifice was never held up as some great martyrdom because it was meant to be something personally inspiring to Luke, not a rallying cry.Jonson was too stupid to see this as he tried to rip it off while making it bigger and better.
https://youtu.be/I15q_TFlNZA>it's a terrible place filled with the worst people in the galaxyIt's worse than I remember. Literally treating the audience like retards & explaining to you exactly what you're supposed to think.
>>220316482Didn’t even realize that was music from a commercial and not the film’s soundtrack until the very end. That’s how little of a shit I give about these movies
>>220316033It’s still the 4th in their countries
>>220313326Because it's fucking awful.
>>220313326>OP starts with the "aw shucks, don't you all see both sides are just as bad?" routine>slowly devolves into a full on white knight as nobody buys the actevery fucking time
>>220314317Knives Out was an IQ test, but Glass Onion is straight up relationship filter.
