Reminder that George Lucas believes Darth Sidious has good intentions (even if with evil ways to achieve them) and that the Empire WAS more successful than the Republic, it's just Order 66 and the Clone Wars were too much to be justifiable. That's why the intro crawl to Revenge of the Sith has "there's heroes on both sides".Retarded takes like>Dooku is a total psycho who hates everyone and everything>Palpatine is pure evil and doesn't believe in the Empire and hates Vader and only wants people to suffer to feed his power>The Empire is a totally corrupt government which is worse than the Republic and only exists to torture random civiliansare not canon.
Why do you care so much about a franchise made for children?
The same Sidious that shouts UNLIMITED POWER and smirks when Vader grieves his dead wife?
>>220400513>UNLIMITED POWER Yes, he gained control of the Republic which he saw as under Jedi control and inefficient. It's mocking the Jedi because Sidious believes the Jedi to be evil and have destroyed the galaxy.>smirks when Vader grieves his dead wifeHe smiles because he has managed to save Vader, and can see the power he radiates. He doesn't really seem to care much about Padme
>>220400476Somehow, a franchise made for children has caused a lot of people to misinterpret the story being told. I'm simply setting it straight
>>220400448That's a not too rare instance of a creator being a bit too stupid to understand the inner logic of his creation. He wants to make some loose analogy to Hitler and the like, but it doesn't work in a universe where the good/evil-metaphysics is materialized as the completely real sides of the Force, and the dark side and its adherents consciously adopt selfish striving for power as a religious principle.
>>220400448"Bad guys think they're good" and "George Lucas believes Sidious has good intentions" are two different things, and you are a fucking moronic, stupid, retarded dipshit for equating the two. Do not reply to me until you are no longer a dumbass.
>>220400758>That's a not too rare instance of a creator being a bit too stupid to understand the inner logic of his creationRetarded, George Lucas somehow doesn't understand what his franchise is about?>it doesn't work in a universe where the good/evil-metaphysics is materialized as the completely real sides of the Force, and the dark side and its adherents consciously adopt selfish striving for power as a religious principle.There is no defined Dark Side in the films beyond what the Jedi say, and the Jedi are proven wrong multiple times. In fact in RotS Sidious seems to curiously selfishly hint various times that Vader will overshadow him. Lucas Dark Side seems to be far more based on power than selfish control (Sidious kills Plagueis because despite his ability to manipulate life he was too complacent and stagnant. He wants Anakin to supercede him, to become the greatest Sith)>>220400795Meds, both mean the exact same. Sidious thinks he's a good guy, he has good intentions. Under Sidious' view the Empire is better than the Republic. And Lucas even goes as far to say that "it MAY be true", which considering this is the last film in the franchise and he's looking retrospectively, it means Lucas believes the Empire has traits which make it superior to the corrupt Republic.Meanwhile, there is no commentary track or BTS thing where Lucas goes "Sidious just created the Empire to torture random civilians and murder billions of aliens because he's just that evil." That's a bad fan interpretation that's too common
>>220400448He also wanted to give Sidious a tragic backstory where he becomes evil because some woman broke his heart, who gives a shit. He sold the franchise to "white" slavers he apologized to and defended, what he believes doesn't matter anymore.
>>220400969>He also wanted to give Sidious a tragic backstory where he becomes evil because some woman broke his heartI don't recall ever hearing about this.>He sold the franchise to "white" slavers he apologized to and defendedFair, he does get a big paycheck.>what he believes doesn't matter anymore.It does because the movies make little sense otherwise and it's also far more interesting than the flat caricature of Sidious portrayed everywhere (especially under Disney) where he's just evil because of evil, he doesn't even have a goal that makes sense (see TRoS having him nuke planets for no fucking reason other than "le dork side"). Lucas actually gave him a reason to do what he does, he believes he's saving the galaxy which the Jedi have turned complacent and corrupt. He's using the corruption inside the bureocracy and the corporations like the TF to get rid of them. His evil comes because of the actions he does to achieve the Empire, not because he just wants to kill Jedi just cause he hates them (which he does, there's an element of contempt at play, but he believes the galaxy can only be saved with them out of the picture)
>>220400866>George Lucas somehow doesn't understand what his franchise is about?Yes, that's perfectly possible. An artist might channel ideas he doesn't fully understand. Especially considering Lucas just took Campbells book as a manual on how to construct an archetypal story. It's like using calculus, it just works even if you can't derive it from first principles.>no defined Dark Side in the films beyond what the Jedi saythen who are the Sith, and what's Sidious talking about when he mentions the Dark Side to Anakin? >hint various times that Vader will overshadow himto manipulate him of course. He's perfectly willing to drop him for Luke later.>Lucas Dark Side seems to be far more based on power than selfish control (Sidious kills Plagueis because despite his ability to manipulate life he was too complacent and stagnant. He wants Anakin to supercede him, to become the greatest Sith)Yes, desire for personal power, which is almost definitionally evil. S kills Plagueis because that's what Sith do according to lore, the apprentice tries to kill the master to become the master.
>>220400513Man, I hope I have an “unlimited power” moment in my life. Must feel good.
>>220401174You mean a moment of great triumph or literally shooting a nigger out the window with lightning?
>>220401227Both.
>>220401171>Especially considering Lucas just took Campbells book as a manual on how to construct an archetypal storyCampbell's Hero Journey only applies to the OT retard. The PT is a total subversion and a lot of it proves Lucas isn't some incompetent idiot who got lucky or plagiarized shit.>then who are the Sith, and what's Sidious talking about when he mentions the Dark Side to Anakin? Sidious explicitly explains the Dark Side to Anakin as knowledge beyond the Jedi's moral limitations, able to do things which are normally unatural to the Force like reviving people or saving them from death. There is nothing in the films beyond what the Jedi say that proves Sith are selfish power hoarders, in fact Sidious says he wants to collaborate with Anakin to find the secrets to immortality.>to manipulate him of courseHe says that to Yoda when Vader isn't even present. Why lie to Yoda during combat instead of just admitting "yeah I did this all for myself" or keeping quiet? Yoda even tells him he has faith in his apprentice, it proves Sidious does believe in Vader>He's perfectly willing to drop him for Luke later.That's a test similar to Dooku's. When Dooku failed to apprehend Anakin, it proved he was too weak and complacent to be a Sith. When Vader failed to even want to fight Luke (even when the goal was to capture him, not kill him), Sidious saw Vader had become weakened by family and wanted Luke to overcome his father. There is nothing there that shows selfishness, rather the films show the Sith are about acquiring power, and when one stagnates he fails as a Sith.>desire for personal power, which is almost definitionally evilNo, Siths can share power, the point is that the power should not be limited by others.>S kills Plagueis because that's what Sith do according to loreLater inventions from the EU. Sidious kills Plagueis because he was weak and didn't want to keep acquiring power. Sidious wants to work with Anakin to go beyond
>>220400448This quote isn't George believing Sidious has good intentions, just that Sidious himself believes his intentions are good. Everyone, even people you could argue are objectively evil, is the hero of his or her own story.
>>220400866You're very stupid and have no reading comprehension. Sidious is a fictional character, Lucas is not. Good day sir.
>>220401424Have you read the full quote? Sidious isn't just a mass murdering tyrant, he wants to straighten out the Republic from corruption and chaos, and even Lucas admits that he MAY be right, it's just the price that's paid for the Empire (Order 66 and the Clone Wars) are too much to justify any government.This isn't Lucas saying "oh yeah Sidious delights in torturing everyone and enslaving the galaxy to his whims because he's evil and selfish, and he thinks that's good". It's Lucas explicitly stating Sidious' goal is to indeed solve the problems in the Republic
>>220400448tfw Yuuzhan Vong sequel trilogy never
Luke and Leia are functional the Bourbon Restoration of the Galaxy.
>>220400448This is why anakins character should have been set up as an autistic neizchean autist with exacting morality and real a conflict over which side of the conflict to serve ala Octavian rather than just a whiny traumatized teen getting taken advantage of by daddy p
>>220400448not agreeing or disagreeing, only saying that there is intrigue going on that goes unnoticed as a kid>>220400866why is sidious evil then?
>>220401652>why is sidious evil then?Well it's from Lucas' perspective obviously, but for a few reasons:1. Lucas clearly believes in deontology. Even if the Empire is a better state than the Republic or even the New Republic, the actions done by the Sith in order to achieve it make it evil because there is no way to justify the horrendous actions done to "cleanse the Jedi".2. The Sith abuse the Force in an unnatural way. This is presented as evil by Lucas: the Force should be used respectfully as something that builds us, not something to manipulate for our goals. 3. Sith search for power ends up overtaking them to the point where they sacrifice their humanity in order to make the Sith Order grow stronger and stronger. Lucas believes in the Jedi more, where it's wiser to be more ignorant but still remain human. Of course, the Old Order is partially wrong with attachments and Luke changes that (though under Lucas, Anakin did fall because of his possessive nature), but that's far more respectful of the Force and understanding of its secrets while remaining humble. This is represented best by Qui-Gon who is a precursor to Luke.The point is that Palpatine is not just the shit flat meme figure people think he is, he is far more dimensional and has reasons and motives beyond being evil for the lulz. This does mean that some people who believe in more Nietzschean methods of control could agree with Palpatine more under Lucas' design for the character
