Could anybody here explain to me what the whole conflict between Luke and Kylo was about?
>>220427669Luke had a vision that Ben Solo was the next Hitler, so he goes to kill him, and Ben is like "Uh uncle what the fuck" and trashes the place and Snoke is like "Yo bra come with me, I ll be your friend, not like you crazy Uncle that hates you"
>>220427669They couldn't have a legacy character survive so they had to assassinate his character
he was making a move. he had to get it on
>>220427669Did you not read the Opening Scroll? Kylo was very angry Leia had the body parts that he wished he had. And he could not cope. This eventually spiraled into the downfall of Luke Skywalker and the end of the entire Jedi Order
>>220427669Luke, who knew that his father was a murderous genocider and redeemed him anyway, tried to kill his nephew because he had a bad dream about him doing something bad in the future
You'd think Luke, having fought off the influence of the Dark Side before, would be wary of visions that encourage him to kill his nephew. Not only that, believing he had the control to be able to do it himself.
>>220427669The whole thing was just a really really shitty version of the New Jedi Order series. Kylo is a shit version of Jacen Solo. Honestly the more I look at it the more NJO was everything disney would have wanted but in a package that might not piss off fans including a female lead.
>>220427669This is such a fucking lame approach to take for Luke skywalker for a new Generation. Boooooring I don’t care if some dream vision or whatever made Luke evil. That’s so fucking lame. Wish they do anything else would be way more interesting than a prophecy bullshit. Fuuuck that
>>220427669>Could anybody here explain to me what the whole conflict between Luke and Kylo was about?No. Because it never happened.
>>220427669>I got a bad feeling about thisThat's literally it
>>220427979Plenty of people hated NJO and hated Legacy of the Force even more.
>>220428148I would gladly take the Vong over what we got.
>>220427669Would people have been happier if the reason Luke went to hiding was because he had visions of Ben's fall to the Dark Side and ignored them because he still believed Ben was a good person despite everything? That way when Ben finally fell and became Kylo it would challenge Luke's entire world view on redemption since he managed to being Vader back from the brink but couldn't manage to save his own nephew. So Luke's self imposed exile is both a means for him to punish himself for his failings while also stewing over his inner moral conflict. That way Rey's role is to reinvigorate Luke's belief in redemption and the light side of the force. Hell you can even tie Rey's palpatine lineage into it so that Luke sees that the spawn of the Emperor is still worth redeeming.
>>220428170You would have hated that too. No one was going to accept anything that didn't involve George and that's all there really is to it.
>>220427908It's hard to not see it as extremely strange and out of character, but it was mostly just a really bad movie
>>220428170No the vong are just as if not worse than the sequel trilogy. That shit is the antithesis of Star Wars in every way.
>>220428277>That shit is the antithesis of Star Wars in every way.You are NOT the arbiter of that.
>>220428296How the fuck is a species that literally exists outside of the force and actively despises technology not the antithesis of Star Wars? The Yuuzhan Vong were always retarded fag teir xenobites masquerading as an alien faction. They're more appropriate for fucking warhammer 40k than star wars.
The real question: why did neither EU, nor Disney succeed in giving Luke an adult personality? I get he joined the Rebellion as a young man, but all the times he had to depend on himself should have given him some perspective and values. Instead, he became Yoda Ii, plus an accidental wife to be his cipher in the EU. For Disney, he forever stayed RotJ Luke and spent his whole life only around children.
>>220427669Luke was jealous that Han got to fuck, creampie & breed his sister Leia and thus Kylo was born (you know the birds and the bees shit). Luke got mad and was sick of jerking off to incest bro/sis prOn all this time since he couldn't cum dump her himself when they were younger and got pissy and wanted to murder Kylo before Kylo got mean and shitty and came after him for vengeance.
>>220428440As for Disney I think they're just afraid to do anything in detail with him. I never bothered with the EU so have no idea what's going on there
>>220428170I would have hated it like I hate the PT movies. Not a fan but not to the point where it poisons the brand.
>>220428440He was cool in the comics
>>220427669
>>220428550who gives a fuck about the comics
>>220427772kek
>>220428605everyone that likes the franchise apparently and not your subversive deconstruction, you smarmy ginger faggot
>>220427669The plot demanded that Luke be a retard and Ben become a bad guy, so it happened.
>>220428632The Last Jedi did crush that. No one gives a fuck about Star Wars anymore and they never will again.
Rian Johnson has seen Rashomon and thought:>Star Wars is inspired by old Japanese films, right? well, wot if same event, viewed different ways?it doesn't matter what it actually was, just that it was in the film. i still can't tell you how they got Luke's lightsaber, whether Rey had magic blood, how/if the chrometrooper lady survived, what the First Order even was, or how Palpatine stayed alive (and/or cloned himself).these films might actually be made as pre-viz action setpieces with connecting dialogue scenes. the 'mechanics' of plot and character no longer matter.
>>220428632>you're a dog that drools when the bell ringsStar Wars Theory in a nutshell
>>220428645Did you know the plot can just demand whatever it wants, and people's whole jobs are to execute that in a way that makes sense?
>>220428600This is just depressing
>>220428662wrong, just the mention of decannonizing your faggot nigger trash last jedi has given people hope and seen a resurgence of hope surge through the fanbase
>>220428605The comics are the most consistently cool media in the franchise, beating even video gamesComics>Games>Shows>Movies>Novels>Produce Marketing Tie-Ins
>>220428672I still can't believe they thought they were clever about Chewie's medal. Tag and Bink did that shit as a joke and you could just FEEL the writers thinking this was clever and moving.
>>220428694Wrong. You lost the zoomers and alphas. It's over. Dead in the water.
>>220428694second use of hope = interests*
>>220428255For this to work everything would have to be reworked, including the previous movie.
>>220428713still trying the generations demoralization angle, stupid shitskin shill fuck off with your nigger spamthe original trilogy is timeless and appeals to all demographics and age ranges, it will still be loved when they sideline or flat out destroy the crap like the prequels and sequels that is keeping the ip down
>>220428605only grade A retards care about the movies. The real cool shit of Star Wars is all in the outside material (comics, games, books, animation)
>>220427669OP let me put it to you this way, although absurdly this is considered some kind of 'theory' and not the obvious intention of the scene's subtext. What would you usually picture if someone described an uncle (who is also a priest) deciding to go into a sleeping nephew's room, at night, and on seeing the little boy's back, the uncle's has a picture come to mind which causes his rod to involuntarily extend, which shocks him and brings him immediate internal shame which is then disastrously rendered external when the nephew happens to wake and see the extended rod, so that this priest and uncle is forced to flee, exile himself and go into hiding. What would you normally picture. Now do you really think it's just a coincidence that a scene that's nominally about "force powers", "darkside visions" etc, in a carefully overwrought-ly, neurotically (to its detriment) constructed film, takes place at night, in a bedroom?Do you not think that a scene that is not meant to have this subtext could have taken place in any other time or place, and like, without the whole involuntary extension which is very obviously inspired by body reactions, etc. Stop being such nerds. The rest of the movie is also full of sexual subtexts there's plently of articles about it and the director talked about it. 'Oh but this one scene that seems to have the bad kind of sexual undertones... hmm nah not that one, ew. Rian Johnson would never do that!'
>>220427669I think Palpatine was manipulating Kylo
The OT is like classic Dungeons and Dragons, it fits the classic heroes journey, the classic archetypes. The prequels are like your DMs weird world backstory, you can appreciate its themes but it is messy in application. The sequels are like modern DnD, pic related. The thing about the Star Wars universe is, as big as the galaxy is, it has the depth of a puddle. Only some stuff really works. And all the attempts at expanding it out don't really go anywhere. So it is stuck doing the same shit or subverting the same shit.
>>220428672>Rian Johnson has seen Rashomon and thought:When Acolyte was being shilled, the creator brought up Rashomon too. She also claimed it would be a Jedi murder mystery. And yet it doesn't feel like Roshomon at all.>i still can't tell you howThe sequels completely failed to explain the status quo. And the book explanation was retarded.>New Republic just demilitarised because lol
>>220428796I don't really see where clickbait about someone's homebrew DnD shit plays in to star wars
I just can't help but wonder how future generations will look back on this. The originals were a timeless classic that spanned decades of fans young and old alike. How will the people to come view this franchise? It's bad enough it got crowed to fuck with all the cartoons and streaming shows but to go the road it did? Will people even care anymore?
>>220428709i like how they made a big deal of the dice on the Millennium Falcon. IRL, just some 70s set dressing, neat, cute detail.then in Solo it was important what the dice were.then in The Last Jedi it was A Touching Moment(TM) they were passed on.10 years earlier in the real world, that same object held as much weight as these gloves. WHAT HAPPENED TO HAN SOLO'S GLOVES, /tv/? WHO DID HE GIVE THEM TO?!
>>220428767>The rest of the movie is also full of sexual subtexts there's plently of articles about it and the director talked about it.Name 3 other scenes with sexual subtext. Post 3 articles.Post 1 instance of Rian talking about sexual subtext
>>220428261People would've rejected Darth Throatus's hackery too. The reality is people think they wanted more Star Wars but they don't know what they want.
>>220428832>With Candlekeep Mysteries featuring a wheelchair-compatible adventure, and Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft having characters in wheelchairs, it's becoming more common even in official Dungeons & Dragons content, and is perhaps a sign that this stigma is dwindling.They started adding official Wheelchair support to DnD.
>>220428788I think Kylo was GAY
Star Wars got Marverlised. See the entertainment industry was ruined by everyone chasing the MCU success. Universal, Sony, all these companies made retarded choices. Even Disney chased itself, Star Wars was Marvelised, the tone, the production. Then Disney forgot how the MCU worked to boot. >Originally going to be a sequel movie and A Star Wars Story movie alternating (just like having two MCU movies a year). >Then TLJ and Solo happened, Iger declared Star Wars fatigue (like superhero fatigue). >Post TRoS they hired Jon Favreau, who kickstarted the MCU with Iron Man, to make a show about a helmeted hero. >Mandalorian was just built to set up spin offs.>Now Thrawn will be their Thanos or whatever.People don't want everything to be like the MCU.
>>220428847It's just bizarre the details they'll fixate on. They'll lose their mind over the "LORE" behind a backgrounds tchotchke but can't pay attention to meaningful story and character details.
>>220428832Star Wars went from classic archetypes/heroes to super specific backstory that people could take or leave to clear retardation. See: >>220428883Nowadays it is purely about demographics and bubbles. Which ends up making retarded decisions. No one wants official wheelchair support in their heroic adventure anymore than they want Rose Tico.
>>220428847Lore, details, universe, was like extra spice. Mostly unncessary, most of it was dumb or could be ignored. Sometimes it was fun. Nowadays lore is everything. People watch 5 hour youtube videos about lore or whatever. Demystifying shit that doesn't matter like it matters.
>>220428709didn't the new comics make this guy a comic relief character?the film treats him like a cool bad-ass assassin, but he's some guy with a magical fortune-telling dagger who can't find what planet a little girl is on (protip: it's the one her parents just left, that you're currently flying away from). then i guess he just died of old age or something, off-screen.
>>220427772I still have this saved from the very first time it was ever posted lol
Raw green milk is a hell of a drug
What annoys me about all this "deconstruction" business is that Star Wars was already deconstructed. It was called The Empire Strikes Back. This was the exact opposite of A New Hope. This challenged the heroes and story and themes.
>>220429012TRUTHNUKE
>>220428847I've seen the OT countless times and I never even picked up on the dice even being there, or that they existed at all. When they showed up in TLJ like it was some big heartfelt moment I was just confused.
>>220428796>>220428951if we're going THIS route, D&D sucks at heroic fantasy. 'plot-based' D&D is the worst D&D, a lot of that shit came in with Dragonlance because the Hickmans insisted your games existed in continuity with their novels. The Forgotten Realms as originally published were written to AVOID this exact situation from happening, but then the Drizzt books happened.if you've never hopped over to >>>/tg/osrg and ran/played in a proper OSR game, you owe it to yourself. D&D should be about an uncaring universe where you can pick a wilderness direction and delve into some dungeons. if your PC dies, he dies: no matter what epic orphan backstory you wrote. it's not about The Hero's Journey, it's a game where you gain XP by recovering treasure (NOT by killing monsters or completing 'quests').
>>220428333Yeah. Nobody thought the Yuuzhan Vong were cool. Nobody. They were the EU version of Death Star Destroyers. Just power creep to the point of being retarded.
>>220429061It was just mean to make the Falcon looked a bit more "lived in." A bit more cluttery. It shouldn't have been anything at all. Dice were chosen because Lucas did a hot rod movie probably. You might as well make a story about how they got their holographic chess set.
>>220429081It's a metaphor more for the state of the game not the exact details. Original DnD had more of a purity of purpose. Now it's colonised and ruined.
>>220428600This should have just been the opening text scroll and the movie takes place after
>>220429081Back in the 80's (Gen-X) my squad never used modules. We just used the rule books like we were lawyers for the supreme court and made our own dungeons.
Deconstruction is schizophrenic and at conflict with itself. You know how some adverts have beautiful people selling you a feeling? And some other adverts have Average Joe selling you something? A lot of woke people think the former is bad because it pushes unrealistic standards, and the latter is good because of realism and breaking unrealistic standards. Whilst at the same time the woke person often constructs an ideas of themselves as the beautiful perfect person too. Even though that's against their ideology.So Luke can't be the perfect hero or whatever. We also need bod standard average looking people like Rose or whoever. But at the same time we also have Rey be practically perfect and know loads of shit because. You flee from one set of tropes and standards and run back into another set of tropes and standards.
>>220429211>Deconstruction is schizophrenic and at conflict with itself.it can only really work if those doing it have love for the genre and tropes being deconstructed
>>220429519What people don't realize is that once you tear something down you still have build something back up in its place. Watchmen had a lot of piss to take with the superhero genre but it was still, at its core, a super hero murder mystery.
>>220429519>>220429559or you could just not give a beloved franchise over to a jew and a spiteful shit weasel
>>220428600
>>220430027
>>220430047
>>220427669Reminder all nu wars is faggot shit
>>220430057
>>220430057man when they showed this as the first trailer reveal the only thing I could think of was that bit in space balls where the guy who played Tuvoc went "WE AIN'T FOUND SHIT!"
>>220430068
>>220428504More believable than the actual story tbqhwyfam
>>220427669He gave Luke the ick.
>>220430379But he grew up to be 6'3"
>>220429559Watchmen worked because it was an original ip with original heroes. It didn't turn the Punisher into a ra.pist and Daredevil into a racist xenophobe. It made the Comedian a ra.pist. and Rorshach a racist xenophobe. They were original characters in an original universe. Not existing characters in a long beloved and storied universe. The turbofaggot that tried to deconstruct Star Wars using EXISTING characters no less....just shows how out of touch and out of his depth that turbofaggot Rian was. Dude was a spiteful hater and completely jealous of GL plain and simple. It was the reason behind everything he did.
>>220430539>Watchmen worked because it was an original ip with original heroes.Sort of. They were all originally supposed to be the Charlton comics characters DC had recently acquired till they changed their minds.
>>220427669Luke has PTSD. Palpatine used that and the Force to manipulate him into a conflict with Ben. Ben was also susceptible to manipulation cause he was a jit.
>>220428255Yes. Luke riding high off redeeming Anakin and refusing to accept a lost cause would be an entirely fitting character flaw.You’d have to cut out the retarded >I’m being pulled to the lightPart of TFA, but since that completely contradicts everything about the dark side anyway, that’s no big loss. Honestly, anything to avoid >HEY BEN, WANNA DO SOME LATE NIGHT SABER TRAININGworks
>>220427979This>>220428148Also this
>>220428255As corny as those rewrites from the time were, I think the only path forward was to have Luke go to that planet to look for some lore mcguffin shit to defeat Snoke.It was just a bad path to take the story to.
>>220431285Was JJ's reason Luke being in hiding ever leaked? Was there ever ANYTHING there in the mystery box at all?
>>220427669I always took this as Luke molesting Ben.
>>220427669>>220427792Yeah this is the thing that bugged me the most about the entire sequel trilogy. Luke isn't the greatest fighter or most powerful force user. The only reason Luke beats Vader in the end is because Vader is old and Luke is mad. Emperor was more than capable of finishing Luke off and finding a new apprentice. Luke's true super power, and the reason he wins, is his faith in humanity. His faith in his friends and his father. Vader is able to overpower and kill Palpatine because he was so inspired by his son's belief in him that he did something Palpatine didn't believe was possible. Luke broke the cycle of paranoia and mistrust that sent his father down the path of the dark side in the first place. He was ready to die before killing his father in cold blood and becoming a tool of the Emperor. In all his plotting and planning it was the one outcome Palps didn't account for, because he was misanthropic and Luke was literally the opposite. That's why Luke is such a cool character. He doesn't win by becoming the best warrior through training and self belief. He wins by retaining his core belief that no one is beyond redemption. I'm not a religious person but an unyielding faith in the overall goodness of humanity being the key to defeating evil is such a great message. The Kylo scene undermines every bit of that and the worst part is the writers didn't even realize it. For as much as Luke in the OT embodies the archetypal "hero's journey" the climax deviates from that in a really profound way.
>>220431219I think even with any displeasure people have with NJO they'd be more content if only to see Luke as an actual Jedi Master trying to start the order.>>220431285The EU had all kinds of crazy force crap he could have been trying to prevent. Hell some of the later books had this crazy ass force Azathoth bitch CALLED Abeloth
>>220431474Do you see that face on the OPpic? Seems like a crazy man to me, so you most likely read all the story the wring way. No need to be ashamed about it, we even got Ray to make this crazy old man to do the right thing in the and and then turn to fart from the overstrain
>>220431729We can all be thankful for Ray. I'm glad she was able to inspire Luke to pretend to sacrifice himself. It's just a shame he died from being too force fatigued right after that :'(
>>220428600Everyone should read the Thrawn trilogy. It's the true sequel trilogy and the only EU books to 'nail' the star wars vibe, like you're experiencing a new movie.>“And now, farewell,” Ben said, as if he hadn’t heard the question. “I loved you as a son, and as a student, and as a friend. Until we meet again, may the Force be with you.” “Ben—!” But Ben turned, and the image faded…and in the dream, Luke knew he was gone. Then I am alone, he told himself. I am the last of the Jedi.He seemed to hear Ben’s voice, faint and indistinct, as if from a great distance. “Not the last of the old Jedi, Luke. The first of the new.”
>>220427669The rise of the antisemitic right
Luke should have been the last Jedi and the sequels should have had nothing to do with the jedi
>>220431965How strange for Ben Solo to think about Luke as a student and son
>>220427669Ben never flushed the toilet and Luke got tired of his shit.
>>220427669Luke caught Ben planning a pipe to pipe bushman with another student and immediately took action.
>>220427669Story for another time.
Are you actually confused by it or playing dumb? Because it's very simple. Luke basically found Kylo's manifesto about committing a school massacre, and he thought for a second that he should take pre-emptive action. Whether you think that's a good story or not, it's objectively not at all complicated.
>>220427669>Luke Skywalker, hero of the Battle of Endor, entered his sleeping nephew’s room, shaking with tremors of apoplectic rage.>He could hear soft breathing. That ungrateful nerfherder fuck scum lummox of a nephew of his was asleep. ASLEEP!>Grandmaster Luuke had been VERY CLEAR on his monastic stipulations. Sleep was not the way of the Jedi. There is no snooze, there is only the force. >Why, he only gave them beds and bedrooms as a TEST. He was so tired. So very, very tired. Like Obi Wan he was disintegrating decades before his natural time. But this ascetic self destruction is what made him a Jedi Knight, same as his father.>Luuuke’s fingers fondled the hilt of his lazersword. A meaningless object fit only for killing defenceless children. At some point soon he would discard it as well, as he moved closer and closer to a state of absurdist hermit enlightenment.>He lent close to Ben, close enough to kiss the sleeping boy. He mastered his natural instinct to make out sloppily with a close relative, and instead reached out with the force, like an insidious proboscis.>Luuuuke’s unnatural mental probe returned the answer he feared and lusted for in equal parts. Ben was in snoozetown. He had taken a train to the land of Nod. >Luuuuuke was going to make sure it was a one way ticket. With a primal scream of rage, he drew himself up to his full height of five foot seven and three quarter inches, seemingly a much Bigger Luuuuuuke than the startled, suddenly awake muscular little boy who looked like exactly like Adam Driver ever remembered. >“WAKEY WAKEY EGGS AND BAKEY!” screamed Luuuuuuuke, calmly. >The incredibly broad, thick, yoked and wide, scared little boy drew his own sword, and threw up a desperate parry, no doubt derived from the third form of lightsaber combat, and laid down in precise detail in some comic book you got free with a bag of coco puffs back in the 90’s.
>>220432794>Luuuuuuuuke was salivating like a rabid wampa, his hands squeezing so tight that the metal one threatened to break his own lightsaber hilt. The extra mechanical torque he usually kept for when he was spending time alone, meditating about his sister was straining the metal to the limit. >panicking, the timid little powerlifter stammered out a pathetic, and half asleep plea for mercy. >“Master Luuuuuuuuuke, what’s going on? It’s too early for training”>“Early? Early? EARLY?! I’ve been awake since 7 ABY!”>It was Luuuuuuuuueke’s flesh blood hand that finally caved in his lightsaber hilt, with a final spasm of inhuman rage at the thought of sleep. His metacarpals broke instantly, and he received a mild electrical shock, allowing his traitorous murderous nephew to escape into the cold night, to gather up a new evil empire and slaughter billions. >Luuuuuuuuuuuke sighed as he watched Ben dissapear from his sight.>“He was a good friend.”
>>220428170What about the Kilik bug orgy with Jaina Solo
>>220427669Luke had green lightsaber and Kylo had a red lightsaber, learn some media literacy
>>220432115Aren't the left the biggest antisemitics nowadays though?
>>220428600How were they allowed to get away with this?
>>220434707Nothing short of vandalism
>>220427669Is crazy that the guy who was unwilling to kill his evil father because there was an inkling of good left in him, decided to kills his innocent nephew because he migjt be evil.
>>220427727>and then Ben was like, "wow what a great idea" and Snoke was like "btw Imma need you to murder a bunch of people and enforce general fascism and shit" and Ben was like "say less senpai"
>>220428255Yes. Literally anything would've been better. But this would actually fit with the character and provide a cruel character development arc for Luke
