>Takes full responsibility for a failure that wasn't even his, doesn't throw his subordinates under the bus, nor dissembles the truth to his superior>Gets executed anyway so a sycophant of inferior leadership prowess can take his placeThis is why Vader was such a fucking faggot and demonstrated why the Empire should've been lead by a bureaucratic-aristocratic elite and not the spook Sith voodoo shamans.
>>220454303Based.
>>220454271Vader was a pussy yeahNever understood his so called redemption especially since his killing kids in ep3>he- he killed the emperor! Yeah a sith would eventually have killed master anyway or should do.
>>220454271Yes, the Empire is supposed to be the bad guys anon
>>220454616>>he- he killed the emperor!>Yeah a sith would eventually have killed master anyway or should do.Correct, actually. Vader said as much in EPV when he pleaded to Luke to join him and to overthrow the Emperor together. This, as opposed to what happened, would've meant that the silly Rebellion would've been crushed and Luke could've created the Skywalker pan-galactic dynasty. If he thought the Emperor wasn't perfect, he could've made it so. The structure itself wasn't bad, as figured by Fel.>>220454644"Bad" is a point of view and doesn't necessitate stupidity.
>>220454271>Apology accepted, Captain Sneeda :)))
>>220455337In a classic good vs evil fantasy story like this one, it's not really a point of view. In the Lord of the Rings it's also not a "point of view" whether Sauron and the orcs are evil.
or its physically impossible to can't lie to such a powerful force user
>>220454271You're missing the point of imperial rule. The republic was weak because it was divided and subject to liberal ideologies. Fascist dictatorship only succeeded because terror was a highly effective control over disparate masses of gazillions of lifeforms. The whole "evil" aesthetic was part of their core power structure.
>>220454271Every imperial who got executed for incompetence by Vader deserved it. All they had to do was catch the millennium falcon and they couldn't.
>>220455476It's literally said in the films that morality is a point of view, Anakin. You don't have to agree, but it is precedented in Star Wars that morality is not objective.>>220455569Thrawn managed to reprimand - even with execution - of officers who failed. But that wasn't his solution to everything which is why the officer corps improved under him. Vader just killed everyone who failed which would've resulted in the death of many capable commanders who failed because of matters out of their control. Especially in Star Wars with the Force being a thing.
>>220456055Human capital isn't a limiting factor, Vader could kill a dozen generals a day without running out of them. There would still be thousands of generals who take a calculated risk that 1% of them have to serve with Vader at some point.
>>220456055>morality is a point of view, AnakinThat's the Prequels, not the original trilogy. Also it's said by the villain in order to manipulate the protagonist into becoming evil.
>>220454271This is literally how things worked at my last job. Not even joking.
>>220456325>in order to manipulate the protagonist into becoming evil.How do you know? What makes you think he is the villain, and not the hero just by the story being told by the perspective of his enemy?>>220456515Not unbelievable.
>>220456055>>220456208The wisdom of killing subordinates for negligent or reckless mistakes is debatable. But killing them for earnest failures is beyond moronic.When the penalty for honest errors is the same as treason, you create a situation where it's logical to flee, sabotage, or fight back rather than submit to certain death.
>>220456707It wasn't policy, he just happened to be in a bad mood at the time. You're really debating the ethics of absolute power, which is not for military men to do.
>>220456730>it's not policy, boss just happened to be on his period>military men can't into ethicsOh, okay. That clears it up. Thanks
>>220455337>The Empire has virtually no effect on the daily life of the average, law-abiding citizen>>unless you make a mistake, piss off some pissant "leader", are in the wrong place at the wrong time, or happen to reside on land that the Empire wants
>>220455337>comparing Sheev to Pinochet>when the Empire is like the platonic representation of Fascism>deleted scenes of ANH literally have Biggs talking about nationalizations of farmsJust because the Rebels are traitorous criminals doesn't mean you have to be a COMPNOR bootlicker anon.
>>220456821if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to fear :)the definition of wrong is fluid and ever changing
>>220456525>What makes you think he is the villainThe fact that he cackles manically, wears black robes, gleefully kills innocent people including children, shoots lightning from his fingers, uses the "dark side" of the force, runs a military dictatorship and has red glowing eyes.>the story being told by the perspective of his enemyThe story being told is the story being told. And in the story we were told he is a villain.
>>220457052LONG LIVE THE 24-year EMPIRE
>Every other officer gets murked on the spot >Piett survives until EndorHow'd he do it?
>>220457001I unapologetically would be a part of COMPOR and then COMPNOR.>>220457073Just say you're swayed by aesthetics and presentation more than independent thought. I'm sure you're a college graduate leftist or mainstream conservative.
>>220457209by being based?
>>220457209He was shitting bricks kek I bet his asshole relaxed so much when he saw Vader leave the room he sharted his tight officer trousers full right up to the belt line
>>220457501>A clear, tasteless small cube, the ration cube, or nutrition cube, was full of nutrients. They had no smell... and they had no fiber to excrete minimal waste product Imperial officers don't shit their trousers. They piss them.
>>220456778I didn't say soldiers couldn't practice ethics. I said they can't debate the ethics of absolute power. Being in a chain of command means you have to obey higher powers even when they're wrong or arbitrary. Vader's position as dictator allowed him to use whatever means he deemed necessary, in this case extreme terror, to achieve the common goal.
At least his apology was accepted
>get manager of janitorial services job on the death star>fucking die probably not even knowing what's going onIn some ways Star Wars can be as bleak as 40k
>>220458332>I said they can't debate the ethics of absolute power.Why not? Debating doesn't equal acting on it.>Being in a chain of command means you have to obey higher powers even when they're wrong or arbitrary.Okay, and?
>>220458530You're not making a moral argument because those imperial officers knew the risks and made their own decisions. You're really questioning whether Vader has authority to execute them, which he does.
What's the difference between joining the military and getting choked to death by your boss or joining the military and getting sent off to get shot in a war you don't want to fight?
>>220458579I'm really questioning if the taste of boot is really that delicious, or if you're just that submissive>>220458609>making no difference whatsover and getting killed by your boss directly because he's a histrionic faggot>falling in battle and possibly having a benefit for your side, however remoteBoth suck, but if you can't tell the difference you're a moron
>>220454616the EU went into this some and the Sequel trilogy should have. I remember one of the books in the EU dealt with Luke seeing his father as a hero who killed the Emperor, while Leia can't get over the evil shit he did and Alderaan being destroyed.
>>220458930>Luke seeing his father as a hero who killed the Emperor, while Leia can't get over the evil shit he didlmaooo, so should Hitler be praised by the Allies and jews for killing Hitler?
>>220459053I think to Luke it's more about how he wasn't evil in the end. Remember believing that there was still good in Vader is why he refused to kill Vader in the first place. And it ties in to Obi Wan's "point of view" that Darth Vader was evil but Anakin wasn't.
>>220458746Like I said, you don't understand how important terror is to the imperial program. It's not like Trump killing a guy.
>>220454271Nice little Star wars thread you have here.It would be a shame if AAARRRRRRRRUUUUUGHHHHHHH!
>>220459223TOO LATE
>>220459104>responsible for killing and/or oppressing trillions >kill emperor, who would have died anyway, for selfish reasons (saving son)>die>>GUYS, MY DA--, UH, I MEAN VADER WAS TOTALLY A HERO
>>220457073>The fact that he cackles manically, wears black robes, gleefully kills innocent people including children, shoots lightning from his fingers, uses the "dark side" of the force, runs a military dictatorship and has red glowing eyes.What makes Star Wars liberal propaganda (yes, even the good movies) is this part right here>runs a military dictatorshipis grafted on to the rest of that to subtly indoctrinate children into the idea that a military dictatorship is not the best and most sensible form of government.Think about it. In a properly ordered society, those who are capable of protecting it should be the ones in charge. And you can't be deciding things by committee. You need one supreme leader at the top who has the absolute final word - and also gets all the blame.
>>220459310SIR I AM FROM KRISHNAGIRI AND I SAY KILL 'EM ALL
>>220454271>bureaucratic-aristocratic eliteBut anon for all intents and purposes that WAS what was leading the empire. There were a total of two voodoo shamans around. And one was almost a bed-ridden geriatric. >>220455569Ironically the republic had lasted centuries while the empire crumbled within a few decades. And it's clear the republic was weakened by subversive forces that were specifically designed to create said empire. Their "aesthetic" clearly developed as a continuation of republic aesthetics: clone trooper armor became stormtrooper armor, republican ship designs became imperial ship designs. There is clear continuity and logically speaking the same continuity had to take place in the bureaucracy. If you're at the galactic DMV giving out speeder licenses under republic law you'd do the same job under imperial law.
>>220459154oh, I understand terror. >Terror built into the system
>>220457209Just a guy who did his job. Probably reminded Anakin of his 501st days and liked him better as a result compared to a slimy dickhead like Ozwel or w/e.
>>220454271The point of the scene is that Vader is temperamental and mercurial. There is a great scene at the end of the movie where Capt. Pretty loses the Falcon in almost an identical manner and Vader just Saunters by him with Piett having the biggest "oh fuck" expression on his face. There is no logic or justice to Vader punishments. He even makes a joke in the next movie "the emperor is not as forgiving as I am" The joke being that the emperor may not be as forgiving... but he is at least fair, in a way Vader is not.
>>220457147For a guy who ruled the entire galaxy, and had unlimited powah, Palpatine had ZERO drip. Black robes, grey ships, grey buildings, grey everything.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmFnZRyOhm4
>>220454271>is a nazi>does nazi shit>diesRot in hell faggot.
>>220459223>>220459244if he was going to Kamikaze the super star destroyer, why didn't he Holdo maneuver the Death Star II instead?Talking about that, why even create the Death Star II and Starkiller Base if the Emperor had a gigantic fleet of Star Destroyers with planet destroying cannons in Exegol?
>>220461670A good question...for another time.
>>220461554>inb4 "evil cannot create..."seriously. my nigga should have worn purple robes and used to force to float around instead of walking, stuntin on everyone
>>220461670I think it's implied the emperor built those star destroyers using manpower and time from parallel universes. Each destroyer probably took 30 years to build but he had 500 universes to extract labor from
>>220461751>I think it's implied the emperor built those star destroyers using manpower and time from parallel universes.source?
>>220461670
>>220461835World between worlds faggit
>>220454303
>>220462424>shit from Star Wars: Rebels>citing Filoni slop to explain how the emperor built the Death Star in the OTlol. lmao even
>>220454616>Never understood his so called redemption especially since his killing kids in ep3That's called George Lucas fucking up and making him retroactively unredeemable, another case of George not understanding his own work
>>220455337Andor retroactively fixes this by totally buttfucking the previous conception a lot of empire apologists had of it as an authoritarian and strict but ultimately competent, organised and benign force of order in the galaxy. Instead it showed exactly how and why the Empire was evil at the level of ordinary citizens. It also makes a lot more sense that the empire is in fact evil when you consider the fact that Palpatine literally feeds on negative energy for his strength and turning the galaxy into one enormous miserable, corrupt orwellian nightmare is actually exactly what he wants. The empire was never trying to be the good guys. What tricked people in the audience before is that a lot of people who work for the empire themselves even at some of the highest levels genuinely didn't realise this was the true purpose of the empire and genuinely believed it was a force for good. Ironically if the empire was actually run the way the way some of the more benign imperials THINK it is it'd be a great thing.
>>220463463>cue impotent chud seething over Andor
>>220463463incidentally as the empire gets closer and closer to going fully mask-off once the death star is complete and begins to commit more and more atrocities, you do in fact start to see many devout imperials start to realise things are deeply wrong. Cyril for instance is shown to have his entire belief system crumble after the massacre he witnesses, and even Dedra is shown to be visibly uncomfortable with the way the massacre is being set up once she's in the thick of it and sees how it's going to be achieved whereby even innocent, fresh recruits are seen as appropriate fodder. Hell even Partagaz the guy who ran the literal space CIA is strongly implied to have realised he's on the wrong side at the very end.
>>220463505let them come, but I genuinely would love to discuss how Andor retroactively perfects the empire as a well-rounded villainous entity. I'm still a huge empire enjoyer don't get me wrong, but you've got to be conscious that they really are the villains.
>>220463463There do be a lot of sith younglings who look up to palps who think being authoritarian is a good in itself. It do be like that. Took me a long time to realize this.
>>220463463>>220463528I'd also add my favourite thing in this version of the empire is that you repeatedly see "good" people on the empire's side getting fucked over by their own organisation. This guy in particular stands to mind https://youtu.be/a1DlP_f3ur4
>>220463548wow, I was expecting bait or cope, but you're sincere and sound based, anon.
>ordered to capture the falcon>gives up immediately at the first difficulty No, I’m with Vader on this one.
>>220463528Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's like I always say: Andor is so fucking good. My preferred rewatch is literally just:AndorRogue OneEpisode 4. Basically this insurmountable evil is established, it seems totally hopeless, then your hero for 9/10ths of the story gets blowed up by the superweapon. Then somehow a bunch of plucky outsiders that the Empire ignored manage to topple this evil.In my headcanon, the empire crumbles and peace and justice are restored to the galaxy at the end of Episode 4. I don't need the prequels to explain how the empire came to be, and I don't need to know that Darth Vader was space Jesus. He got BTFO by Han Solo and Chewbacca, end of story. In this headcanon, it becomes my favorite work of fiction.
>>220463463Yeah and andor also suggest that revolution is impossible without the backing of either the political families or trillionaires, which can be misleading for statist retards.
>>220463661eh I think that's a bit extreme. The OT is still phenomenal and pretending like ep V isn't kino is a miss, than and the prequels although deeply flawed still hold loads of great content. My personal watch order would be>EP 4>EP 5>PT >EP 6>Andor>Rogue onebecause I think the shift in production quality going from rogue one (a movie made in the 2010s) and ep 4 (a film made in the 70s) is too extreme for me. I'm also very much looking forwards to the upcoming revised edition of rogue one which accounts for andor to a greater degree and incorporates leitmotifs and flashbacks from andor more coherently. the sequels on the other hand, I simply pretend do not exist
>>220463702>>220463661>>220463528>>220463463>>220463548Fucking gay. Trandor is not Star Wars. Faggot fanfiction for plebbitors.
>>220463702I've done a masters in security studies including specialisations in insurgencies and I will be dead honest with you, if you want to pull off a successful rebellion in any kind of at least somewhat industrialised or centralised state you're going to need to coopt existing elites and rich people and ideally get international backers. I actually found the way andor depicted insurgency shockingly reasonable and well thought out for what's meant to be schlocky sci fi space opera
>>220463763just because redditors like something doesn't mean I'm automatically gonna dislike it. it's ad hominem by association fallacy and it's something I see fucking CONSTANTLY on this board.
>>220463505>>cue impotent chud seething over Andor>>220463763took you long enough, lmao
>>220463786>you're going to need to coopt existing elites and rich people and ideally get international backersYou needed a graduate degree curriculum to figure that out? Non-STEM masters and non-IVY MBAs aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
