Even if he won, Eru would just intervene to make him lose. Why would he bother playing a game that was rigged against him from the start?
>>220500436Well you tell us, OP. Life is rigged against you and you're still playing.
>>220500474Kek
>Eru would just intervene to make him loseUnlikely. The only time Eru intervened was then the Numenoreans dared assail Valinor. His game is bigger than kings and conquests.
>>220500436He is not a quitter like your father or his son.
>>220500436Eru is pretty much the christian God.so everything will turn ok because he loves us even if we dont notice.there is not an scenario in which sauron wins.
>>220501160He made golum fucking slip lol
>>220501819>Eru is pretty much the christian God.He does the absolute bare minimum then
>>220501928yeah,he has a misterious plan and somehow allows evil to exist.But LOTR is an optimistic work,everything turns to be fine at the end.
>>220500436>Eru would just interveneNo He would not.
>>220500436There are literally no stakes in this universe. All evil is sourced from a singular bad guy who's canonically nowhere close to the strength of God, his maker. Thats not even counting the other angels(whatever the fck they're called in universe) that would swoop in to whoop his ass of he ever got too out of line. All he can do is create nuisance for a short while before he gets btfo and has to run away and hide before surfacing again. Tolkien doesn't even exactly explain why Morgoth was evil in the first place, just that his song was different and evil now descends from him.Why tf would I ever read anything from this universe if I already know the good guys are simply going to win? It's retarded.
>>220501970Because Morgoth sung his song of discord into Erus creation and, just like the Christian God, he's not going to just destroy all of Creation just to get the thread of evil out.
>>220501915Nope. Wrong.
>>220502015>harpertranny POST THE XXXXXL SHIRT
>>220502004thats not what happens in the books though
>>220502093That is what happens. The angels even cheat and revive Gandalf + boost him to go whoop ass. There's no scenario when Morgoth the Chud wins.
>>220500436He was sending a message to the gods of creation.
>>220500436This confuses me, too. And Saruman even more so. ALMIGHTY GOD sends you down to do a job and you turn against ALMIGHTY GOD? The fuck do you think is gonna happen?
>>220501970>somehow allows evil to existBased 13 year old atheist
>>220501970that's more or less the thesis of lotr. God permits evil because stopping it would give melkor exactly what he wants. by weaving the discord into the song elegantly, He creates something more beautiful than before as one big fuck you to the devil.
>>220502268> more beautiful than beforeAll ugly evil things in Lotr are descended from Morgoth's song.
>>220502223the alternative is living eternity as an slave of God ,is better to reign in hell than serving in heaven, and all of that.
>>220501915Gollum slipped because Frodo cursed him with the ring
>>220502337Okay the individual notes are off-key or off-time, but the song, the whole composition works around it.Tolkien's answer problem of evil is "chromaticism." God is out here making bebop.
>>220500436Who made Eru?
>>220500436faustian spirit. non-whites wouldn't get it.
>>220502557That is problematic because God informed Melkor even his song is ultimately sourced from God himself, so the ugly stinking Orcs that Sauron forced human women to get raped by to create those hybrid orcs are a result of Illuvatar's song.
>>220500436eru isn't actually the god, he was just first among them. that's why he had to send his agents instead of just deleting sauran and melkor from the universe. that's why he wanted to destroy the ring so much - it was a living proof of his weakness - sauron created something the almighty god couldn't possibly destroy.
Tolkien himself answered this.>In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit. Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants, by a triple treachery: 1. Because of his admiration of Strength he had become a follower of Morgoth and fell with him down into the depths of evil, becoming his chief agent in Middle-earth. 2. When Morgoth was defeated by the Valar finally he forsook his allegiance; but out of fear only; he did not present himself to the Valar or sue for pardon, and remained in Middle-earth. 3. When he found how greatly his knowledge was admired by all other rational creatures and how easy it was to influence them, his pride became boundless.Sauron was trying to do good, bring order and perfection to the world. But he was too clingly to an old relationship, prideful, ashamed of redemption, lonely with no friends and over-reliant in his own tech (the Ring) is what ruined his greatness.He needed friends, and time, and some great purpose in which his greatness could be applied. Someone built for perfection like he was couldn't really live with being wrong for so long.
>>220502752Would you, I or anyone with his level of skill and ability to lead men and nations fall into the same trap? Imagine being not only more intelligent than 99% of everyone, but also more charismatic, more personable, more able to see grandiose, nations-spanning plans through to their conclusion.
>>220500436yup, OP i made the same point: sauron manages to get the numenoreans to build an unstoppable army>the fleet is sailing into the undying lands>we're told there's no force there capable of stopping it>eru loluvatar smashes all the ships with a godsmack>everything gets plunged into the ocean including sauron's physical form as annataras was said in one of the rick james threads...YOU CAN BUILD SOME NEW SHIPS WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO ABOUT MY BODYYYYYYtotal bullshit if i was sauron i would have ragequit at that point what can you do if god's gonna' come in at the end with a godsmack anywayit removes the drama from all the goings on in LOTR 'cause eru loluvatar could just save us at the end.
>>220502857Imagine losing to a hobbit lol
>>220502722counterpoint: thelonius monk rules, therefore it's okay we have rapists and kids with leukemia
>>220501915You could argue he simply held him to his oath
>>220502652Tolkien
>>220500436the moral philosophy of lotr doesn't work if they didn't actually have free will the entire time (tolkien, a christian, would have likely said something similar)
>Sauron could not, of course, be a "sincere" atheist. Though one of the minor spirits created before the world, he knew Eru, according to his measure. He probably deluded himself with the notion that the Valar (including Melkor) having failed, Eru had simply abandoned Eä, or at any rate Arda, and would not concern himself with it any more. It would appear that he interpreted the "change of the world" at the Downfall of Númenor, when Aman was removed from the physical world, in this sense: Valar (and Elves) were removed from effective control, and Men under God's curse and wrath. If he thought about the Istari, especially Saruman and Gandalf, he imagined them as emissaries from the Valar, seeking to establish their lost power again and "colonize" Middle-earth, as a mere effort of defeated imperialists (without knowledge or sanction of Eru). His cynicism, which (sincerely) regarded the motives of Manwë as precisely the same as his own, seemed fully justified in Saruman. Gandalf he did not understand. But certainly he had already become evil, and therefore stupid, enough to imagine that his different behaviour was due simply to weaker intelligence and lack of firm masterful purpose.https://fair-use.org/j-r-r-tolkien/notes-on-motives-in-the-silmarillion/
>>220504289>imagine that his different behaviour was due simply to weaker intelligence and lack of firm masterful purposeIn this we are more like him than different.
>>220500436>Why did Lucifer rebel against a guy with "Almighty" in his fucking nameI dunno dude you tell me. In this case though, Eru didn't even intervene against Morgoth who was an order of magnitude more evil and powerful than Sauron. It's a pretty safe bet that Eru is hands-off and intervenes in subtle ways if at all.Sauron wouldn't understand that, since he's all about domination, just as it would never occur to him that anyone would try to destroy the ring, it probably also wouldn't occur to him that Eru would be able to intervene but would choose not to, so at this point he assumes the big guy is just impotent.
>>220504546>>220504289Oh. Hadn't actually read the thread, yeah that's exactly what it was. Sauron simply cannot conceive of having that much power and not discharging it immediately, so he has to assume that Eru wrote Arda off and checked out.
