>>220846449Mandalorian and Grogu 2026 it just a 2-hour filler episode.
>>220846449filoni really is fucking retarded. first star wars film in like a decade and it's some glorified tv episode
>>220846449>finally get a star wars movie with a male action lead and zero wokeness>/tv/ still hates it despite not haven even seen it
>>220846563Stop clutching your pearls.
OH NOOOO NO NO NO NO
>>220846449
>>220846557Why is everyone blaming Filoni? This was Favreau's film, and it was made while Kathleen was still in charge. If anything, it was her fault.
The best part is, Disney will continue to pump out flop after flop after flop. They'll never let Star Wars go. It is going to be so fun to see.
>>220846563Pedro is LITERALLY a faggot with an actual boyfriend.
Fap fap plap fap fap fap brap
>>220846449Star wars deserves to suffer.
>Needs $412m to break even Will it even make that?
>>220846672I love how they threw in 4 billies and now are in a gambler mode where they keep throwing more money to recover and never will.
>>220846449Watch them blame star wars fatigue even though it hasn't been in the minds of the public for almost a decade
Reminder that this movie exists only because Disney execs were no longer willing to throw billions of dollars into the television streaming sinkhole, SAG-AFTRA/Writer's Guild strikes just ended, and the higher ups were still living under the illusion that Baby Yoda is a huge money printing machine. So Iger and Kennedy told Favreau to scrap Season 4, that he'd already written, and make a cheap movie in the hopes of making easy money and return Star Wars to cinemas after 7 years.>When we sat down with director Jon Favreau in London, we asked him why Mando and his tiny green charge Grogu were the right characters to bring the saga back to the big screen – quite the full circle move, considering they helped launch Disney Plus back in 2019.>"I'm not sure what, exactly, why we were asked to do this," Favreau tells us. "I suspect it was because these are characters that people, even who hadn't seen Star Wars, may be aware of, especially Grogu. Baby Yoda was everywhere. And these are two characters that were used to launch Disney Plus, and we made no assumptions when the Mandalorian TV show came on that anybody had seen any Star Wars before.
>>220846677that nigga is like in the movie for 3 minutes top. for the rest its a stund man with a helmet on
>>220846721Time to greenlight 3 more low effort Frozen sequels, I guess. Women never say no to slop.
>>220846646I sincerely doubt the brown teens who started the prequel reevaluation had read any book in that image.
>>220846655filoni has second writing credit and is an executive producerhe was very involved, even if he wasn't the big cheese
>>220846449Bad unimaginative title
is anything this makes at the box office not basically free/bonus money to disney, since it's just the next season of the mandalorian edited together and would have released on disney plus for nothing anyway?
>>220846866No one involved wanted to make this movie, or even was sure why they were doing it in the first place. Because it was pushed by the corporate overlords and came to be as a result of strikes and season 4 getting cancelled.
>>220846900While that might be true, this movie doing poorly is going to affect the actual theatrical Star Wars movies that are released afterwards. It failing damages the brand.
>>220846743What a glowing endorsement of this movie by the man who made it. Excited to watch it this weekend!
>>220846866Probably that was when he was writting it as episodes and not a movie. Same thing happened with TCW movie
>>220846449KWAB
>>220846976and that was a turd toomaybe dave needs to stop writing
>>220846915probably notbut dave is the big cheese now, and he will get his shot to redeem himself, or further confirm the doubters
>>220846563>finally get turd (polished)>still smells like shit
>>220846655>>220846866Filoni also cameos as TWO SEPARATE characters in the film. It's literally his baby even if he didn't direct it.
>>220847208That's a complete non-sequitur. He also wasn't the only one who had a cameo. Other Mandalorian episodic directors did too.
>>220846449If Zeb can't put butts in the seats then I don't know what can.
>tanks your biggest franchise on earthnothing personal kid
>>220846449Maybe they should have called it something else instead of Quombalubian and Splink-Splonk
>>220846563>Oh, so you want to see Han, Luke & Leia reunited again? NOPE!>Watch us clown on Luke Skywalker as we shit all over his legacy>Poe, how DARE you save us against orders you MAN!>A literal DECADES WORTH of woke man-hating DEI nonsense>Oh, so, you thought Obi Wan was gonna be about a crusty old huwyte guy? NOPE!fast forward>where...where is our audience????>guys! guys! Nonwoke!!!>Boba Fett & Yoda oc donutsteal guys!Do. Not. Care. OG SW fan, NEVER watching ANYTHING DisneyWars. You do NOT get to antagonize your fanbase then complain when they abandon you.
>>220847295
>>220846743Moron, this movie exists because the licensees threw a massive shitfit because they licensed Star Wars as a theatrical property, THAT'S why KK talked originally about their ten year plan that they pile drived into the dirt, the companies like Hasbro, Funko, etc are PISSED at KK & LFL because they paid on contracts for a theatrical property, not streaming shovelware.GOD, all of you fucking moronic children don't know fucking jack shit and keep gossiping like little bitches thinking you know everything.SW is back in theaters mainly to make the licensee companies happy.
>>220847295>nothing personal kidIt was though. It was intentional.
>>220846449>worst opening and worst dropit's dead, jim
>>220846449How did this piece of crap end up costing $160,000,000? If it was 4 episodes if a TV show cobbled together that means each episode had a budget of $40,000,000. For reference, Starfleet Academy and The Boys season 5 cost around $10,000,000 per episode.
>>220847529>>220847529>Starfleet Academy and The Boys season 5 cost around $10,000,000 per episode.that's 10x more than it looks
>>220847496I wonder how that's working out for them.
>>220847546Are you saying this looks cheap, Anon?
>>220846712no
>>220847579the lens flare makes it classy
it had the benefit of not being entirely reshot like Solo
>>220846721Money is fake. It's not about the money, its about destroying every last shred of white culture and history.
>>220846449Nobody wants to see Homo Pascal and his badly made puppet in the kinoplex. This stuff should remain in streaming.
>>220846853You act like it wasn't white zoomer guys wanting to be like Anakin.
>>220846541Should add his wife wearing the hail Satan shirt into the background
>>220847556>I wonder how that's working out for them.>le HURRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!Pretty fucking well, you dumb fuck!>le Ollies Discount! Le heckin' Ross clearance!!!!The licensees sold their wares to Wal Mart, Target, etc. What happens to it now is everyone elses's problem. Like I said, you're all a bunch of fucking retards.
>>220847323A rare image of Carrie Fisher not off her face on coke.
>>220847694This fan is having a meltdown lol
>>220847496Source: your ass?
>>220847579>they have to blind you with lights to hide how shitty it lookskek
>>220847694
>>220847778>>220847792>>220847818Point out you're retarded, get inundated with retarded replies. You're all morons flailing about, failing to grasp basic things and screeching like the autistic retards that you are at the slightest challenge to your stupidity. Disney serves slop, all of Hollywood serves slop, because you're the dumbest generation and you lap it up. You get what you deserve, retarded faggots.
>Baby Yoda doesn't talk in this movie>Not even one "This is the way"It wrote itself?Why didn't they do that?Was it at least a finale, or are they going to make even more Mandalorian?
>>220848076Oh no, it's getting mad. It's going into a tard rage! What are we gonna do?
>>220848186Raise shields and arm tardpedoes. ...FIRE!
>>220846449>with critics praising the score and Pascal's performance, while criticizing the plot, visuals, and action sequences.I like how critics always criticize everything except the tools, those have to be praised no matter what.
>>220846627This is fucking insane.
>>220846449Glup Shittobros, I’m not feeling so good …
>>220846449To think, Star Wars could have been saved had Disney never listened to Red Letter Media.
>>220847295>WHY COULDNT YOU JUST TRUST THE PLAN?
>>220846563>zero wokenessIt's a queer LatinX guy taking care of someone else's baby, with a bunch of elderly girl bosses like Ripley from Aliens. It's absolutely woke.
>>220846655Don't excuse Filoni's as if he's not a Big party of why SW is creatively stagnant rn.
>>220846449Is the CG Clone Wars movie included in these comparisons? I don't know how that one did, but I find it hard to imagine it was better.
>>220847295Based Rian
>>220846743>sink 750 million to a project>creates the greatest Star Wars media possibly surpassing the OT in both emotion and gravitas>uplifts A New Hope as more than a children's movie>no one watches itIf Andor can't save Star Wars, nothing will. Disney fucking torched this franchise hardcore.
>>220846646>a 4chan shitpost makes more than star warsthe absolute state
>>220846449Imagine if this had came out back in 2021 when the show and characters were still popular
Imagine telling people in 2012 that a Star Wars movie would be utterly BTFOd in the Box Office by two Indie Horror films
>>220848117>>Baby Yodatheir first mistake was giving a name to this stupid marketing gimmick
>>220848117S3 flopped and now this flopped as well so probably not
>>220848579The second mistake was not naming him Baby Yeed
Star Wars is dead and dead.
>>220848700then show me the body
>>220846449For me, it's Malakash and Gort
>>220847295thats not pokemon tho
>>220848700who the fuck is going at 10pm. Millennials are tucked in bed at that hour and zoomers are scared to go outside after sunset
>>220848872these are gen x creep hours
>>220847818>woke-slophola normalfag
>>220848274RLM never said turn Star Wars into a girl franchise while telling adult male fans to pound sand. It was perfectly reasonable to suggest a sequel trilogy be a transition between the old guard and a new generation.
>>220846449"2nd weekend drops" literally don't matter. Aggregate numbers do.Thing is, it'd doing terribly in that measure too. So why focus on the one that is meaningless?
KWABOTY
>>220846563>zero wokeness >Starring giga-homo Pedo Rascal.
What went wrong with Star Wars
>>220848076You're a mongoloid, and you should immediately kill yourself.
>>220846563I'm just pleased to see thing go bad for star wars.
>>220850484White women.
imagine backrooms debut #1 on the domestic box office, hollywood will be forced to taking FUCKING notes. btw i have seen the movie yesterday before my 23rd BDAY. peak or not, this is 10/10 based on my own movie expericence.
The funny this is George is probably delighted that a 20 year old has the number one movie in the box office.
>>220847295People LOVE to act like TFA killed the franchise, but no. TFA was retarded, but it was crowd-please normie slop. THIS is the movie that accused everyone who disliked it to be sexist and racist, and completely turned people away because of that.
>>220850484boomers
>>220850596So we're gonna get a $200m liminal space blockbuster starring Tom Cruise and Jenna Ortega? Tilda Swinton will play the twist villain
>>220846449Why does sad news always make me so happy?
>>220848373Why didn't she just say she's got a plan? She didn't even need to say what the plan is, just say she's got one. Why did she refuse to talk at fucking gunpoint, when they mutinied?
>>220850725Because the message was, "obey authority if it's /our/ kind of authority." Or, "trust the experts."
>>220850484Disney for some reason are incapable of making things for boys if they somehow stumbled into a male market they have to quickly kill it or market it to girls
>>220850954Trouble is they're not stumbling into male markets, they're buying them and then fucking it up.
>>220846743>the illusion that Baby Yoda is a huge money printing machineLEAVE MY ADORABLE BABY ALONE!
>>220847579People forget how expensive lens flares are.
>>220846563>pedo pascalNo thanks
Big blockbuster movies and IP sequels are bombing while the smaller unique shit is thriving. I love to see it. Whether you like backrooms and shit like it, at least it's a return to unique premises in movies even if it's not actually an original idea (since it was a meme). I'm just glad it's not going to be all marvel and starwars slop and Disney is getting hit hard for it. They honestly thought they could churn out the same shit over and over and people would eat it up. I want to see some more fun romcoms like we got in the 90s. You've Got Mail, Serendipity, He's Just Not That Into You, etc.
>>220846627>-81%holy shit audiences are done with Star Wars
>>220850954They truly thought the "guaranteed audience" was a thing. It can be in the beginning, but you're riding off the good will of whomever made it great in the first place. People figure out very quickly when that quality doesn't show up. They came out of the gate wanting to grab women and minorities thinking white men will show up regardless.
for a dead franchise there sure is a dedicated and thriving antifan community built around using it as a culture war wedge issue, even when this movie had nothing offensive in it
>>220849926Wasn't portrayed as gay in the movie, most times it's not even him in the suit, you do know most actors are faggots in real life, right
>>220851665Yeah, just like they were "done with Star Wars" when the Clone Wars theatrical feature flopped in 2008.The point is: People don't care about Star Wars outside the mainline films. Never did. The only one that ever performed relatively well was Rogue One, and most of that is due to the Episode 7 hype carrying over. Still did worse than episode 9 even.
>>220846563>male action lead and zero wokenessNobody fucking cares if movie is shit. Do you think The Predator was good? Also 95% of fans are done with Star Wars. And they are never coming back.
>>220846712No way it's that low. 160 million budget + at minimum 100 million marketing. They will start making profit around 500 million. It might never even reach 400.
>>220851807nigger, the clone wars cartoon show rehabed the star wars brand and was so good with certain arcs it had people wanting more star wars media, it's the reason we even got the sequels in the first place, nice cherry picking the movie they made as a way to disregard the impact the series has as a whole
>>220851823contrarian faggot troll
>>220847694>What happens to it now is everyone elses's problemThat was true years ago dumbfuck everybody knows SW merch no longer sells.
>>220851869>the clone wars cartoon showDifferent thing. Entirely.And, no, that one didn't have anywhere close the same audience as the films did. Neither the numbers, nor the same demography. A TV series has completely different success criteria than a cinematic release. Hence why the (successful) Mandalorian streaming shit was never a good idea to bring to the big screen.
>>220851887You are retarded. Baldur's Gate 3 made 1.5 billion $. Not everybody is obsessed with political trash.
I remember when Rogue One was coming out it was an event in it of itself. The absolute state
>>220851869LMAO not this shit again. Vast majority of Star Wars fans never watched that crap not even mentioning mainstream audience. What made a lot of money for the brand back then was video games.
>>220851869>the clone wars cartoon show rehabed the star wars brand, it's the reason we even got the sequels in the first placeIs this supposed to make me like TCW? LMAO
>>220851786>you do know most actors are faggots in real lifeFaggots tend to think everyone is a closeted faggot.
>>220846563I want Star Wars dead, period.
>>220847425>>Oh, so, you thought Obi Wan was gonna be about a crusty old huwyte guy? NOPE!Christ my brain memoryholed anything about that show, it's that bad. Not ONCE do they play a John Williams song, and Vader and Obi Wan fight in some dark as shit landfill or some shit. At this point I truly believe they destroy the IP on purpose, yet for some reason expect you to pay money for it.
>>220846563Yes. That is correct.
>>220846449>Sad News] Mandalorian and Grogu has the worst 2nd weekend drop for Star WarsI'm amazed that it beat out melania, pic related.
>>220852151>melania, pic relatedYou didn't post a pic of Melania, anon.
>>220846506>Mandalorian and Grogu 2026 it just a 2-hour filler episode.yes, we all know the talking points
>>220847743She must’ve been an insane lay
The same fag is currently shitting up the board with the same posts about Star Wars and that other shitty horror movie and their supposed success and failure. Everyone appears to be taking the bait.
>>220851786>most actors are faggots in real life, rightfaggots always think there are way more faggots than there are, all types of faggot including dykes, troons etc are less than 3% of the population and half of those have no actual sexual actity at all. The number of active male faggots is less than 1% of he populationSource: Office for National Statistics – Census 202143.4 million people (89.4% of the population aged 16 years and over) identified as straight or heterosexual. 748,000 (1.5%), described themselves as gay or lesbian. 624,000 (1.3%) described themselves as bisexual. 165,000 (0.3%) selected “Other sexual orientation”And no sean connery, harrison ford, brad pitt etc etc etc etc etc are not faggots
>>220852382>>most actors are faggots in real life, right>faggots always think there are way more faggots than there are, all types of faggot including dykes, troons etc are less than 3% of the population and half of those have no actual sexual actity at all. The number of active male faggots is less than 1% of he population>Source: Office for National Statistics – Census 2021>43.4 million people (89.4% of the population aged 16 years and over)>identified as straight or heterosexual. 748,000 (1.5%), described>themselves as gay or lesbian. 624,000 (1.3%) described themselves as>bisexual. 165,000 (0.3%) selected “Other sexual orientation”>And no sean connery, harrison ford, brad pitt etc etc etc etc etc are not faggots
>>220847295During the "Leah in space" sequence I literally looked around the theater to see if I was being pranked in some viral marketing stunt
Was it worth it?
>>220846563>male action lead
>>220852550>Was it worth it?
>>220846743That is interesting, only though mando premiered quite awhile ago. I still haven’t watched it.
>>220847295>>tanks your biggest franchise on earth>nothing personal kidit absolutely destroyed star wars but was also a genuinely awful film an now carrie fisher is dead there is never going to be any way to undo it
>>220851807I don’t believe Rogue One did as good as they wanted. And critically it’s about as good as TLJ. Thankfully we’ve had a decade to bitch about these movies, or the whole thing would be totally dead.
>>220847295what a talentless shit spewing cunt rian johnson is and was
It's actually unbelievable how hard they fucked this franchise up. It's just knights and wizards fighting in space, it's not complicatedI'm replaying the KotOR games and they are 1000X better than anything disney has done with billions of dollard despite being made by some random nerds in the 2000's
my personal favorite
>>220852663>THREE chances to reunite the original trio on screen one last time>one of the three cast members literally dies, and they STILL had one more chance to reunite them on screen using archival footage and cgi>"nah">focus on the fucking fuzzy dices in the millennium falcon insteadIt seems like such a small thing but it's so indicative of everything wrong with disneywars. Like they refused to give fanservice that people might enjoy, and could only do the most retarded attempts at it to artificially pretend that they cared.
These threads are just filled with contrarian faggot trolls that makes discussing any of this pointless, when they use talking points and false narratives to suggest the last jedi being good because of it's box office numbers which were high from nostalgia just like the force awakens and not the actual quality of the filmPeople really thought we would get the same quality filoni was pumping out with the last few stellar arcs of the clone wars cartoon, not an absolute poorer rehash of a new hope or an absolute deconstruction and burying of the franchise like the last jedi
>>220852509>7.47% Not answered.Interesting. What kind of taboo fetish could this be that is not fully summarized by any of the ones given?>0.03 QueerIsn't "queer" just an umbrella term for gay/lesbian/bi? Why even give it as a choice? Why pick it?
>>220852582You're honestly not missing much. I'd literally recommend just watching the first and last episode of season 1 and leaving it at that.
>>220852915The thing about the dice, and other small detail fan service elements, is that even those only exist because they were done by set designers and prop people, and overlooked by the director's themselves. Like think about the most memorable scene in TFA, some random Storm Trooper having a short little sword fight with Finn, literally just the stunt guys throwing something in.
>>220852726>Rian Johnson: Most Star Wars fans are great people who show humor love and respect.>Star Wars fan: What a shit spweing cunt.You really don't take compliments well, do you?
>>220846563>PLEASE COME WATCH IT CHUDS, IT'S NOT WOKE THIS TIME WE PROMISElol
>>220846449>Poison the well>Destroy the biggest movie franchiseDisney deserves it.
>>220852726>>220852891a gentle nod to my fellow third weekers
>>220852382>>220852509that doesn't refute anything I saidnice spergout, retardwhy would you post anything like this from a general census to try and tie it to the acting industry, which is filled to the brim with literal faggots, even your most masculine depictions were gay for pay like arnold shwarzenegger
>>220852930>What kind of taboo fetish could this be that is not fully summarized by any of the ones given?I'm a 70 year old man I'm not answering this regugnant shit about faggots? That kind?
But but women and sodomites are the new audience of Star Wars and they were supposed to get a billie.
>>220850592>second from leftMWWWUUUAAAH *POP*MWWWUUUAAAH *POP*
>>220852959this idiot thinks the stupid traitor scene and swivel stick shit was memorable, please fucking kill yourselfyou're obviously too autistic to understand when people are mocking something extremely stupid
>>220853013That kind of answer just outs you as a closeted gay though.
>>220852988Hah your just a dumb fucked up little creep who sees homsexuals everywhere because your brain is malfunctioing
>>220853040>Hah your just a dumb fucked up little creep who sees homsexuals everywhere because your brain is malfunctioing
Disney and Kennedy still paying for the Last Jedi's sins and that's a good thing.
>>220851760>even when this movie had nothing offensive in it10 years ago I was called a sexist pig for not liking Luke drinking green monster titty milk. I will not forget.
>>220853052you just can't cope with the fact so many male actors are faggots and the few that aren't are coerced to suck dick and give up their asses for continued roles in the industry, it's one of the most widely known secrets in the business
>>220853096>Literally waddling around flailing her arms like a toddler>This is meant to be strong and empowering
>>220853133I love old Star Wars with heroic Luke. The prequels were watchable. And I love watching Disney Mouse Wars bombing and getting cancelled.
>>220847660>Nobody wants to see Homo Pascal
>>220853096>massively successful film from a decade ago that reddit disliked is to blame for a general lack of interest in a cheap TV show cash-inThis is your brain on youtube shills.
>>220853133That doesn't even make senseI didn't like it either, but that's like you taking a retarded troll's comment to heartIt has nothing to do with being a sexist pig and everything about humiliating the characterIf the only people still left are easily trolled idiots like you, no wonder the discourse is so fractured and nonsensical
>>220853243silence chuddy
>>220848472Andor sucked and you're gay. Sorry.
I don’t think this movie actually cost them that much to make and they clearly used every favor they had when it came to advertising it unlikely they spent much there either. I think they just owed a lot on toy sales so they threw the cheapest movie together with the coolest characters they could think with yesmen vested directors and just see how it flies
>>220853205the prequels were soulless and the dialogue was offensively bad, stop trolling
>>220853133>Luke drinking green monster titty milk.As opposed to him drinking blue monster titty milk in A New Hope?
>>220853243>but that's like you taking a retarded troll's comment to heartIt was the director, the actors, the studio, the general million and billionaires, actually. They mocked everyone who didn't slurp the slop, and now their franchise is dead. Maybe they should've been more humble?
>>220853265>and just see how it fliesLike a pigmade of lead
>>220846449Oh no Red Letter Media bros. Disney Star Wars is dead…C-C-Can JJ Abrams save us again like he did with Star Trek?
>>220853250Turns out chuds have all the consumer money for media and vidya while faggots and niggers, well not so much
>>220853298Yep. Think you got a gotcha with that? People certainly thought that was a gotcha 10 years ago. Well your franchise is dead now. Who got got?
>>220853303you're flounderingwe've deviated too far from the shill script dialogue tree for you to still be coherent
>>220853406??? No. Disney mocked people for not liking The Last Jedi. I stopped giving Star Wars money because of that. Many people stopped. And now the franchise is dead. Are you misunderstanding what I'm saying?
>>220853265>I don’t think this movie actually cost them that much to makeI think you'd be astonished at the incompetency of these boomer execs. You only have to look at the mcu. Every film in it is one of the most expensive films of all time and they all look like ass. When every shot is 90% vfx, it rockets the budget. Pedro almost certainly got a hefty payday for this shit. As did Favreau and Filoni. And then there are all the custom props they made (only to paint over them with shitty cgi) that drove the cost even higher.
>>220853341>your franchiseMy franchise? Kek. Who do you think you're talking to?
>>220853617One of the few bottom feeders left who seems to enjoy Disney Star Wars.
This is the way.
>>220852971
>>220853645I don't care much about Star Wars, mate. I'm just here to laught at people like you who obviously consider it (or their headcanon version of it) their whole identity.
This shit is not even worth a pirate bro, if it was streaming on Disney+ it would probably be one of the worst episodes. IDK how Filoni managed to write this shit, he's a slopmonger but this is beyond his shit writing.
>>220853435>Many people stopped. And now the franchise is dead.What is this kind of delusion?
>>220853774Who's making it their whole identity? I'm antagonizing Disney, which any sensible person ought to do.
Making Jar Jar Binks, midichlorians and the Star Wars Holiday Special look better is quite an achievement.
>>220853746Why did they blame chad studs (chuds) for this flopping when it wasn't made for them in the first place?
>>220853797Well let's fucking see. They last put out a movie seven years ago, and now their latest one is a flop, losing out to a 4chan meme directed by a 20 year old.
>>220853269the prequels were at least funny bad
>>220853874Mouse Wars used Kenobi, Anakin and Ahsoka for their shit shows.
>>220853829>I'm antagonizing DisneyAnd why are you doing that? Right, because they hurt your feelings by making films that didn't cater to your demands. You're either ten years old or you never learnt that the world doesn't revolve around you.
>>220853858>now their latest one is a flopRight. That surely must be due to some comments some random Disney employee made to some random racist twitter user ten years ago. No way there's any other reason, like, dunno, the film that flopped being trash or no one actually caring about the characters and story it is supposedly about.
>>220853874no, they were pure shitevery single moment put to the screen in the prequels is a missed opportunity
>>220853787you gave the last jedi a five out of five, your opinion is meaningless trolling
>>220854011"Anti-capitalist" leftards spend most of their time defending the trillion dollar corporations like Disney's Star Wars and Marvel, Amazon's Rings of Power and the Boys.
>>220854011>world doesn't revolve around youEntertainment kinda does.If you make shit no one likes, you can't force people to watch it. Sure Disney can MAKE it because they're jews who can just borrow money at 0 interests, but they can't physically drag people to see it.Jujutsu Kaisen and Demon Slayer have stronger cultural power over Gen Z than Star Wars, and Disney seethes about this.
>>220854045>>220854011Oh we have an actual fucking Disney shill here. I love it. Yes, faggot. Star Wars is a flop now because Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy were rude to ME 10 years ago. Maybe they shouldn't have done that? Think it worked out badly for them.
>>220853435This current movie is doing fine and it's inoffensive, you obviously have a chip on your shoulder and grudge to bear, but it has nothing to do with this current movieyou're trying to hard to antifan and it's coming off as extremely scripted and fakefucking move on and fuck off then, if you're actually being sincere, but here you are using a different genre completely to bash this solid movie
>>220846563It's literally just another episode of mando, and I already saw the first two seasons when yoda fucked off with Luke (which should have been the end)
>>220854215>This current movie is doing fineIt's not. It's doing worse than Solo. You seem to think people have object impermanence. "This movie is inoffensive!" Okay. How does that fix you offending me before? And yes, you HAVE to please me. You are asking me to spend money on your product. Why should I do that when you were rude to me before?
>>220846449All debates about the quality of the movie aside, I just dont get how disney believe that their customers will pay for a TV subscription to watch star wars slop and expect the same people to go out and spend money to watch the same slop at the cinema when they're already paying to watch at home. I think this double dipping alone is reason for its failure.
>>220846655>FavreauSwingers? He can suck my dick, that swings too
>>220854283I think they're quiet dropping the streaming bullshit because they know it makes no money.Also betting on nostalgia is very dumb, I'm a millennial and I never paid for any streaming service because I pirate everything, and so do most people my age, they should have catered to gen Z and alpha who don't know how to use computers
>>220854269reddit spacing of course you're a shill projectingthere's that shill tactic you so often fall back on, just because solo didn't have high box office numbers like awakens and last jedi which are objectively worse films means it's a bad movie when it was one of the best movies produced during the prime kennedy era along with rogue one, the only negative was a poorly casted han that looked nothing like harrison ford fuck off with your contrarian trolling faggot, you're fucking pathetic and most likely the real mouse shill sent to deride anything produced after kennedy to try and keep the culture war faggotry alive
>>220846563>PLEASE WE KNOW WE TRIED TO GIVE EVERYTHING TO BO KATAN IN THE 3RD SEASON BUT WE PROMISE THIS IS BASED AND RIGHT WING
>>220854366Oooh, you got worked into a shoot for that one, buddy. Well hold on. Hold on. Look at this.The MEGA reddit space.Oh, yeah, look at that baby. What time does the narwhal bacon? Who even knows. Anyway, I don't care. I have no obligation to give these faggots money. I don't even care if they make new things that are "okay." You made a 7/10 Mandalorian movie? Great champ. You still made the Sequel Trilogy. Unless you produce god's gift to man, you have fucked this franchise royally, and will never recover.
mk too went woke and too lost. many such cases.
>>220852028Based
>>220854127>Entertainment kinda does.No. It really does not. Grow up.
>>220854436also forgot to mention the reason for solo doing poorly was because of how repulsive the last jedi was, which you always conveniently leave outit's so funny how angry you get when people call out your frustrated reddit spacing, you have no self control at all
>>220854138>Oh we have an actual fucking Disney shill here.Right. A Disney shill would definitely call their most recent release "trash" and attest it "no one actually caring about" its contents, while it's still in cinemas. Definitely what a shill marketing campaign looks like.
>>220854516Reddit spacing doesn't exist. They're called paragraphs, nigger. They've existed on this site since before reddit. And aren't you just proving my fucking point? The Last Jedi killed the franchise. This whole conversation stemmed from "I will not give Disney money because Rian Johnson was a twat." Seems to overall be working out in my favor.
>>220854516>the reason for solo doing poorly was because of how repulsive the last jedi wasKek. Imagine actually believing that when Solo not only was badly made bullshit that no one ever asked for, but also received next to no advertisment budget because Disney had already given up on it after all the bad press it had gotten during its troubled production.
>>220854559nigger, only a moronic fucking shill faggot like you formats your posts like that and it's always fucking hilarious how you get derailed trying to defend yourself over ityou just can't help being a niggerfaggot sore thumb sticking outgo bite your pillow while your handler rams your faggot ass with a broom handle like how they used to churn butter
>>220854492I get your point, but Star Wars will never be a A24 slowburn spectacle for soibois, it's a dumb space western with magic monks fighting with lightsabers and shooting laser guns at each other, there's no place for rian johnson bullshit. Apparently everyone got the memo but you and KK.
>>220854067They were entertaining, and we got some great video games out of them
>>220854535>>220854623Defending The Last Jedi. 100% Disney shill.>>220854632Nigger what are we even arguing about at this point? You don't like The Last Jedi. I don't like The Last Jedi. Are we on the same side and just miscommunicating?
>>220854657imagine playing prequel based video games during that era of gaming, yea you're fucking retarded, on top of pulling images straight from fucking reddit
>>220854677>Defending The Last Jedi.Not even. Learn to read.It was a significantly better film than pretty much any other Star Wars released after 1980 though.
>>220854863lmao yep. Clocked you faggot. I know every facet of your being and person now.
>>220854657>we got some great video games out of themThose games literally ruined LucasArts. One of the greatest adventure game developers, if not the best. Just because some management bigwigs degreed that rather than keep doing what they did best, they were now to produce cheap Star Wars cash-ins.
>>220854900What post-ESB Star Wars film do you argue was better than The Last Jedi? The prequels? Kek.
>>220854439you mean the one that drinker wouldn't even call woke, gee it's almost a coordinated discord antifan shilling campaign is playing out in this thread
>last modern slop worth pirating was PHMAm I just being a boomer or is modern shit actually bad?
>>220854934Yep. Every Star Wars movie is better than the one that raped Luke's character, had a pointless casino b-plot, and didn't have this character. I know exactly what you like about it, too. You SPECIFICALLY like the Luke stuff, because it's a "deconstruction." Or maybe you'll say "the visual direction is good."
I haven't watched any mouse slop after TFA
>>220854999>raped Luke's characterSomething tells me that you don't really understand "Luke's character". You think he was a flawless hero? Never wavered, made rash decisions, gave in to the dark side? Have you even seen the films you claim to love so much?Also, I find it funny that when I ask you about the respective quality of films, all you can come up with is your personal pet peeves about the story, rather than, say, looking at the cinematography, or editing or even just acting or sound design. Then again, of course, any of those topics would immediately set you up for an argument you cannot possibly "win". So you'd rather keep going on about how your subjective expectations not being met make something a "bad" film.
>>220855123Yes, YES! You're doing it. Oh my god, I love it. I fucking CLOCKED you, bro. It's like I'm back in December 2017 again. Anyway, no. The character who refused to strike down his father, and give into the dark side right in front of Sidious would not be tempted and waver in attacking his much less evil, and much less competent nephew. This has been gone over countless times.>rather than, say, looking at the cinematography, or editing or even just acting or sound design.Oh I can get into audio if you like. Like how the movie clearly temp tracked the force theme ad nauseam. Using it something like 21 times in the film. The sequel trilogy had weak OSTs overall. Williams was not in his prime, and was not given room to breath with the editing, and was forced to equally give a bunch of member berries. Ironic, considering Johnson wanted "the past to die."
>>220855123>You think he was a flawless hero? Never wavered, made rash decisions, gave in to the dark side? Not him but the entire point of Luke's arc in Return of the Jedi is that he sees the power of the dark side but chooses to reject it entirely and triumphs over evil because of it. Having him waver AFTER having redeemed Vader is just nonsensical walking back of his character development.
>>220855403Watch. He'll argue, "what, he can't make a mistake ever again?" Ignoring that this is the VERY next "canon" time we see Luke. If you watch "The Skywalker Saga," you go from Return, where Luke overcame the Dark Side, to TFA/TLJ, where he was terrified of Kylo... just because? The character who's less evil, less capable, and less competent than either Vader, or Palpatine.
Hello, Anon from >>220848927. Thread died so I was unsure where to report back, so I'll just do this thread.I was actually shocked at how bad the writing in this movie was. There is a lack of... friction, for lack of a better term, to the action. Like the opening scene has Mando just storm an Imperial Garrison no problem and kill a Moff that was on his bounty list. And I'm not thinking "wow that was a really cool action scene" I'm thinking "why the hell would you get in an AT-AT if you can take out their legs with the equivalent of a hand grenade?"Mando has to fight a giant white snake dragon monster and it only manages to bite him, so they can say "ah, now you'll die eventually from the poison!" but Mando still manages to kill the snake, rescue Grogu and the little alien mechanics, run through a swamp in full armor, proceed to kill over a dozen droids that are chasing after him, sees grogu off, and finally succumbs to the poison without showing any sort of effect of it hurting him otherwise. I can't help but feel that it would have been more compelling if he was actually seriously injured by the snake dragon monster, and then that injury made him actually struggle to escape and get rid of the tailing droids following him before succumbing to his injuries.And like one of the big things that bother me is the ending, the New Republic sends Blue Squadron to rescue Mando from Nal Hutta, and it's just a bunch of X-Wings and Y-Wings (as usual) but it's also like... less than ten planes? In the entire squadron. And they just blow through all of Nal Hutta's defenses, they destroy all the anti-air turrets with a few laser blasts, and finally blow up the palace with a few Y-Wing torpedoes. Like... what? It was just that easy, huh? That's the whole movie, everything is just so damn easy! It's like they're deathly afraid of making any sort of challenge for their heroes.
>today I decide to kill my nephew over a bad dream instead of meditating on it and taking steps to prevent this Nice wise mentor character. Can't wait to see what they will cook up next, horses in space? Hell yes
>>220855566One caveat (the post ran over the word limit) I'll put in is that the opposing bounty hunter was very cool. Never talked but was very imposing. Tall, slim, wide-brimed hat. Had a dog companion, won every encounter. Really only left because the Hutts who were paying him to be there died and he had no real stakes against Mando. I have no idea what his name was, because they never said it. But he actually gave the heroes a challenge and it made all the encounters with him actually exciting. So they know HOW to challenge their heroes, they just... choose not to for the majority of the movie? Very frustrating, honestly.
>>220855566I said Mando kills the snake, but he doesn't actually kill the snake, sorry. He injuries it and escapes. The snake dragon is still around at the end, so they can have it kill the two hutt twins. Like the whole palace explodes due to the Y-Wing bombs anyways so it seems exceedingly pointless.
>>220855403>Having him waver AFTER having redeemed Vader is just nonsensical walking back of his character development.No, it's not. It's what it means to be human. You keep your flaws. Character development just means that you learn to live with them.
>>220855709Oh! You fucking did it! >>220855459 You are a fucking NPC.
>>220855214>Like how the movie clearly temp tracked the force theme ad nauseam.Not only is that not sound editing, it's also untrue.>The sequel trilogy had weak OSTs overall. Williams was not in his primeThis is just slander of a great composer>and was not given room to breath with the editingCongrats for doubling down on your entirely misinformed notion of what sound editing is. Thinking that the film's composer ever has anything to do with it.
>>220855749>You are a fucking NPC.Kek. Imagine using that buzzword, in this day and age even.
>>220855756I didn't say sound editing. I said audio. Particularly I was talking on the score. And yes it's true. Do you know what a temp track is? All films now have them. The sequel trilogy absolutely was packed to the brim with temps of Williams' older material.>This is just slander of a great composerI'm not slandering him. He had a ton of work stacked against him, and he was simply an 80 year old man asked to compose a clusterfuck of a production.
>>220855773I like how you didn't deny it, or counter anything I said. Literally, "Luke's character development just got backtracked... just because. And that's a good thing!"
>>220855123You lost, tranny.
>>220855214Oh, and:>considering Johnson wanted "the past to die."tells me that you didn't get the the film, considering that you thought what was the message is only ever said by the film's villain, who gets proven wrong by the end, while the heroes embody the opposing mindset, which gets outright verbalized by Yoda in a pivotal scene that is incredibly hard to miss the point of.
>>220855833>you didn't deny itSaying "No, it's not." is not a denial of the backtracking? Interesting perspective you have there.
YAWNtoo much samefagging
>>220855876You're a fucking retard NPC. Luke isn't "human." He's a fictional character. A person writes what happens to him. You don't go from having completed a great challenge to then immediately faltering on a much lesser challenge. i.e. overcoming darkness from Vader and Palpatine, to being terrified of your lame nephew.
>>220855709There's a difference between a character being "flawed" and acting in idiotic, out-of-character ways just so your dumb plot can happen. Nobody is saying Luke should be perfect, but he SHOULD act like Luke Skywalker would because he's an established character and we know what he is like.
>>220855817>I didn't say sound editing. I said audio."Audio" is not a thing. You either mean sound editing or soundtrack. And since you quoted me talking about sound editing, and literally brought up "editing" again yourself, that's obviously what you meant to reply to. But, hey, I get it, you don't want to confess that you have no idea what that is. So instead you invent the new category "audio" that somehow encompasses exactly what you think you meant to say.>The sequel trilogy absolutely was packed to the brim with temps of Williams' older material.And you know what else was? Every single Star Wars film after New Hope. Lucas liked using themes, so they repeated the Force Theme (Luke's Theme) over and over. Or Vader's Theme which became the Empire's signature theme.Now, for the sequels Williams wrote completely new material as well, of course: Rey's Theme, Kylo's Theme, Rose's Theme, The Jedi Steps. To name a few. And those were used pretty heavily throughout. But let me guess, the few times Last Jedi used an older theme, like, dunno the Luke's Theme during the double sunset when Luke died, that is way more offensive than Attack of the Clones using Vader's Theme when showing of the clone army for some contrived reason, right?>He had a ton of work stacked against himDid he now? Care to elaborate? Because Williams himself seems to have valued and enjoyed the collaboration to the point where he himself insisted on conducting the orchestra recording.
>>220855905>Luke isn't "human."Wow. That indeed says a lot of how you see Star Wars.
>>220855566Not a big SW fan (still haven't seen Episode II or IX) but the AT-AT scene immediately pulled me out. The Mandalorian takes down 3 AT-ATs in the span of five minutes single-handed? What? And why the fuck is the intro villain taking siege weapons to a shakedown meeting that requires them to navigate a narrow canyon pass where they're effectively sitting ducks? Why is the one Stormtrooper who gets stabbed during the first AT-AT breach just standing around in the background until Mandalorian whips around and shoots him? Why is his toolkit so underutilized? During the ending sequence where they're escaping the Hutt's compound before the bombing run he jumps into the water with Grogu when he has a jetpack.. this movie was so mind-numbing. Why are there 0 aliens in any of the crowd shots? It's like the old animation trick where something looks clearly drawn against a static background image because that's the only thing that will have any interaction in the frame. Why would you make a 2.5 hr movie with a faceless protagonist who barely talks and does even less emoting and a silly little puppet whose schtick gets old after 5 minutes? How does this get made..? I saw this for free and I still felt cheated. PS Mandalorian didn't kill the snake
>>220856053>And since you quoted me talking about sound editingNo, I meant the visual editing. You do not understand what I was saying. Williams was not given room to breath in the visual editing of the material, especially compared to prior Star Wars films, which allowed time to breath for the soundtrack to develop new melodies and motifs. Topple on the fact that the film was clearly temp tracked with prior Williams material, and he was clearly just asked to "fill in the dots," for much of the trilogy's score.>But let me guess, the few times Last Jedi used an older theme, like, dunno the Luke's Theme during the double sunset when Luke died, that is way more offensive than Attack of the Clones using Vader's Theme when showing of the clone army for some contrived reason, right?No, you do not know what a temp track is. See my enclosed image. In the visual editing of the film, JJ, Johnson, and whoever, clearly edited the movie around cues of prior written Williams material, and more or less asked him to re-record it, without any variation, or development. Temp tracking is a notable thing in media scoring. Every project does it, but the sequel trilogy did it in a way where Williams was not given a considerable amount of room to breath.>Did he now? Care to elaborate? Because Williams himself seems to have valued and enjoyed the collaboration to the point where he himself insisted on conducting the orchestra recording.I'm sure he's always happy to work on Star Wars. That doesn't mean his results are above critique.
>>220855942>idiotic, out-of-character waysHow is it out of character for Luke to overreact to a danger in quick lapse of judgement before reflecting catching himself?May I remind you that this is the same Luke who insisted on canceling his Jedi Training in Empire because he had a "bad dream" about Leia and Han being in danger. Who then rushed to Bespin, into a trap set by Vader, despite both his mentors warning him that the vision was just that, a trap? And ended up losing his hand and needing to be rescued by the same people he went there to help?The same Luke who, after going to the Death Star in Return to redeem Vader, got baited by a small little thread towards Leia, into tapping into the dark side and unleashing all his unbridled rage onto the guy he came to redeem, not stopping to repeatedly strike him with his weapon even after that guy was basically defeated and helpless for half a minute, until Palpatine's gloating snapped him out of it?
>>220856067No fictional character is human. Every single fictional character is something someone wrote, and decided the actions of. This might be shocking to you.
>>220856177Because Luke overcame those challenges, and grew from them. This is called character development. Having an arc. Having to repeat the same lesson again is character regression.
>>220846541Lmao
"Huge apologies to Rogue One" - RedLetterMedia
>>220856092Also what the fuck ia the obsession with the Hutts?! Jabba was cool because he was a big fat disgusting fuck you. His son looks like a Battletoad. I at least give them the slightest bit of credit for opting to animate an interesting morphology but most of the time it falls flat (especially in the climax where it looks.like 3 turds rolling around). Didn't they already do a Hutt rescue plot as a Clone Wars movie? I have not watched the show; have they already given everyone Mandalorian vs Boba? I feel like they're missing the whole point of why Boba Fett was so beloved
>>220846743The Star Wars brand is so dead, dude. I was at the theater yesterday and none of the teens were watching it. They were watching other movies instead.
>>220846563>zero wokeness>your lead male super gigachad actor is actually a faggot who literally kissed another man on the lips to promote the movieYeah ok
>>220856164>No, I meant the visual editing.Kek. Sure you did. Because Williams always had the final cut to work with for Star Wars in the past. Oh, wait, no he did not. When he scored the original Star Wars, he basically only had the very same raw cut that Lucas showed to his friends and was told was crap. But, hey, who cares, right?>the film was clearly temp tracked>No, you do not know what a temp track isThere were no temp tracks in that scene (or the film as a whole), moron. The film used that theme in that scene because it meant to use it there. Because it made 100% sense to use it there to close Luke's journey off. What do you think they could have possibly replaced it with in the final cut?>clearly edited the movie around cues of prior written Williams materialWhat? Are you really this fucking stupid? Scene editing is not static. A film goes through several iterations of the process, some without soundtrack, some with soundtrack (temporary or final), and, believe it or not, you can even take a piece of music and recut it to match the scenes.>Temp tracking is a notable thing in media scoring.And it has absolutely nothing to do with the things you see and hear in the final film. That's why your whole argument here is bullshit.>That doesn't mean his results are above critique.His results were masterful. And you being unwilling to admit that just because of some irrational hatred towards the films shows how deeply biased you are.
>>220856320can't separate the art from the artist when it doesn't fulfill their biashypocrite
>>220856204>Because Luke overcame those challenges, and grew from them.If Luke overcame that challenge and grew from it in Empire, then how come that he fell for the same weakness again in Return? Where the trigger was even less immediate and pressing?Why is Luke allowed to keep his flaw impulsiveness from 5 to 6, but not from 6 to 8?
>>220850635TFA killed it intellectually but it was still being puppeteered, TLJ confirmed to anyone who was swindled by TFA that disney wars had a rotten foundation
>>220856190>No fictional character is human.You should take a creative writing course. Any creative writing course. Your perspective on fictional characters is terrible.Any halfway decent writer will tell you that your mindset is what produces carricatures of characters rather than actual compelling ones.
>>220856371He kissed Steven Colbert on the lips to PROMOTE the movie retard, it wasn't one of his hundreds of faggot moments. And you wonder why straight men don't want to go see a movie when your lead faggot plants one on another man and says "go see my movie"You know what that says? Star Wars is now for the gays
>>220856358>Kek. Sure you did. Because Williams always had the final cut to work with for Star Wars in the past. No, he did not. But the visual editors, in decades past, when quick cutting was lost prominent, gave shots longer time to hold still, with allowed for more melodic development, which Williams excels at. There was less so in the sequel trilogy.>There were no temp tracks in that scene (or the film as a whole), moron.Anon, I'm being serious here for a moment. I know we're having a 4chan argument, but this is just a genuine normal part of film making, and media production. When a film is edited together in the initial phase of things, TEMPORARY music is placed into the edit. This is to help define emotion, and give a guideline for the film composer to work. Sometimes, a composer can be asked to work "closely to the temp," which is a creatively stifling situation. Here's a short youtube video explaining temp tracking, from music editor Michael Baurer.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sAZfzEaDYkMy critique of the sequel trilogy's music is that it was heavily leaning into the temp music, which was all clearly Williams' prior material, down to the same notes, and orchestration. This is different from the concept of using a leitmotif, or motivic development.
>>220856407exactly, TFA will always be the original sin that people didn't realize was shit until later. Because what can you do with this franchise once you get to the Force Awakens? The conflict was effectively reset. All the things the characters achieved in the original trilogy was gone. We have a new cast that is totally shit and the old characters are decaying husks. It's literally impossible to tell a compelling story over the course of 3 films with this setup.
>>220856396Because Luke was in the middle of his arc? His arc to become a "Jedi, like his father before him," did not conclude in the middle film. It concluded at the end of the trilogy. Where he proved himself, and helped end the empire, and redeem his father.
>>220856436It is not compelling to see a character go through an intense ordeal, only to then immediately falter on a smaller ordeal. That is the trouble with Luke's character in the sequel trilogy.
>>220846563pedo pascal is a franchise killer. zendaya next.
>>220856462>gave shots longer time to hold stillIt's ridiculous that you make that argument when critiquing Last Jedi, considering that that film arguably had some of the longest-held shots in the entire Star Wars catalogue. The final duel between Luke's projection and Kylo was literally styled as an homage to Kurosawa, led by several calm establishing wide shots for multiple seconds each, followed by the calmest and most clincally conducted fight scene since the Obi-Wan/Vader duel in A New Hope.You also get scenes like Rey meditating, several slow scenes following Luke on the island, the "Holdo Maneuver" and Leia in space (no matter what you think of those scenes), long dialogues that linger on the actors and so on.Really, there isn't a less fitting talking point to bring up against this film in particular than "too rapid scene editing".>this is just a genuine normal part of film makingIt's a normal part of very early edits. It's not a normal part of the final film, as you claimed, excluding a few notable examples like Kubrick's 2001. Hence it's not worth discussing.>My critique of the sequel trilogy's music is that it was heavily leaning into the temp musicAnd how did you come to this ridiculous conclusion? As I told you before, Williams wrote a lot of completely new things for the sequels, which did end up in the final films.
>>220856488>His arc to become a "Jedi, like his father before him," did not conclude in the middle film. It concluded at the end of the trilogy.If "becoming a jedi" was his arc, it had nothing to do with impulse control. It would also be a rather poor arc, since it doesn't imply any actual character growth, but only an external quest.May I suggest instead that the arc Luke went through in the original trilogy was mainly about trust and reconciliation? Trust into others to do the right thing (his friends, rather than worrying about them, his mentors and that they had good intentions, and lastly Vader, and that he'd be able to redeem himself rather than requiring outside forces), and reconciliation with his own flaws (i.e. accepting them rather than overcoming them).Generally, the best character arcs are not those where a character just becomes a perfect being at the end, and sheds all his darkness, but those where a character comes to the conclusion that he can do better even with his weaknesses.
>>220856439lies always come reddit spaced
>>220857061Along with getting longer shots, you also need the privilege of the music being allowed to be the emphasis and focus, which Williams, in general, was not given as much up, in the sequel trilogy, especially in regard to developing new material. Each prior film had a sequence, and new musical identity that was almost a voice for the movie itself.>A New Hope: The main theme, force theme, Leia's theme>Empire: Imperial March, Yoda>Return: Luke & Leia, Palpatine's theme>Phantom Menace: Duel of the Fates>Attack: Across the Stars>Revenge: Battle of the HeroesThe sequel trilogy introduced several new motifs, but they weren't given sweeping moments to develop. Ultimately out of the sequel trilogy, only maybe Rey's theme stands out?>It's a normal part of very early edits. It's not a normal part of the final film, as you claimedI did not claim the temps were in the final film. Recordings were ultimately used however, that were exceedingly close to the temps, down to the same notes, and orchestration. Here's composer Junkie XL (Tom Holkenborg) talking about the phenomenon.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovJggBZfcOo>As I told you before, Williams wrote a lot of completely new things for the sequels, which did end up in the final films.I did not claim Williams wrote zero new material. There was a considerable amount of material however that was extremely close to prior Star Wars score, to the point of where it was obvious that he was being asked to play close to the temps.
>>220857200Luke is not a "perfect" being at the end of Return. He simply overcame the darkness in him, and redeemed his father, one of the darkest people in the galaxy. The problem then with The Last Jedi, is Luke fell back on all of that, and was fearful over his... teenage nephew? Who was much less intimidating and capable than Vader or Palpatine. It's regress. And pointless at that.
>>220856503The character arcs that Luke goes through in the originals and in Last Jedi are not the same though. The inciting flaw sure is, but the consequences of that flaw are wildly different. Luke's rashness in the originals results in several things: Vader's "I am your father" reveal, him endangering his friends, his jedi training ending prematurely, doubts in his mentors, his determination to redeem Vader, but also himself being tempted by the dark side repeatedly. His arc is then not primarily to become less hot-headed (even though you could argue he does), but to solve those conflicts and accept certain things. I just made this post about that: >>220857200.In Last Jedi, his rashness leads to a short amount of doubt, which escalates to cause the very thing he wanted to avoid, and that in turn makes him doubt his own capabilities as a jedi and, more importantly, as a mentor. His arc then is to train a new mentee and rebuild his own self-image, reconcile it with what he thinks it means to be a jedi or a hero, accept what he cannot change (Kylo being lost) and to take action to make things right by the people he loves in as far as he can.
>>220857429If that's what you want to argue, sure. Mark Hamil disagrees with the character, and its arc. Most people disagree and rejected it, to the point of where Disney tried to undo the damage in the following film (terribly). The fact that 10 years later people argue over it, and it's such a point of contention does not do the film favors.
>>220846672They need to just fire everyone at their studios and start over with some Japanese and French autists
The main problem is that nobody knows who the fuck Grogu is, they should've called it Mandalorian and Baby Yoda and it would've done better
>>220857538Surprised more people aren't saying this. Grogu is a stupid fucking name. Everyone calls him Baby Yoda. Then again, Baby Yoda peaked in popularity like 5 years ago and no one cares now anyway, so what's the point of this movie.
>>220846743is that the guy from breaking bad
>>220847295I literally couldn’t make it more than 15 min through this movie.
>>220846563Being against evil is woke now. The only way a piece of Star Wars media could avoid wokeness is if it's explicitly pro-Empire. Not just exploring that side but actively rooting for it
>>220848872Just went to a 630 showing and there was maybe ten other people
>>220852086The company is ideologically captured. They can’t conceive of film making or storytelling as anything but a means of peddling their ideology(diversity is our strength, women are strong, believe in science).
>>220847496>SW is back in theaters mainly to make the licensee companies happy.Well they're fucked then because no one is buying the merch because the only people who like GooGoo are unwed childless women, and apparently there isn't enough of them willing to buy to keep the movie from losing money.
>>220846563If they had made this movie after season 1 or 2 of Mando it would have at least done moderately well but Season 3 was so bad it killed any good will people may have had.
>>220857341>you also need the privilege of the music being allowed to be the emphasis and focus, which Williams, in general, was not given as muchHe literally was in Last Jedi. It's the only Star Wars film where the director was so smitten with Williams' work that he had an audio track made that included no dialogue or sound effects, just to let the orchestral music shine in its fullest. But even the film with dialogue has scenes that have nothing but the music, particularly the establishing shots before the Luke/Kylo duel I already mentioned. Really, your whole criticism reads as completely unfounded to the point where I have to wonder whether you've ever seen it.>The sequel trilogy introduced several new motifs, but they weren't given sweeping moments to develop.Here, I'll link you the scene in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdAK4c3x6iIThe track playing here, I think, is called "The Spark". And it's incredibly effective.>I did not claim the temps were in the final film.Then why bring it up at all?>Recordings were ultimately used however, that were exceedingly close to the temps, down to the same notes, and orchestration.I can recall one such scene, the dual sunset when Luke dies, and as I said, that's the only thing that made sense there.>extremely close to prior Star Wars score, to the point of where it was obvious that he was being asked to play close to the temps.Sorry, but I don't see it. Not any more so than how they all sound "starwarsy". If you take, for example, the prequels track you brought up "Across the Stars", it not only has clear melodic allusions to Leia's theme, but also a similar tone to the Luke and Leia theme. No one in his right mind would conclude that that's because George Lucas fell in love with a temp track and demanded that Williams write something as similar as possible. The obvious explanation is that either Lucas or Williams himself wanted to draw parallels in character (Leia/Padme) and in tone.
When will we find out the actuals for saturday?
>>220853239I fully lost interest as Star Wars slop a decade ago when TFA came out
>>220853746Is this the fucking movie? Holy shit this is painful
>>220854657Pod racing was based
>>220857538They should have called him Yeed unironically
>>220847295It's salt
>>220857227>lies https://mashable.com/video/stephen-colbert-pedro-pascal-kiss-tequila-interviewNext time Pajeet shill, instead of riding on top of a train step in front of one
did anyone even hear about this movie? i never even knew it existed until i heard about it on this board
>>220857735>Then why bring it up at all?Because you objectively do not understand the subject matter I am talking about, despite me linking you multiple videos of industry professionals explaining what a temp is. The actual direct recordings of the temp tracks were not used. They followed closely in the orchestration and writing of the "new" material. The Last Jedi, for instance, I believe utilizes 21 instances of The Force theme, more so than any other Star Wars film. This tells me that it was likely slotted in by a music editor, as just a general "get this tone" concept, but was followed instead by extremely close statements of the track itself.>Sorry, but I don't see it.Because you do not understand the difference between thematic development, and reusing orchestration and prior material in an exact way. The Hobbit had this same issue. An Unexpected Journey had several scenes of original score subbed out for re-recordings of material from Return of the King, exactly, note for note, because at the last minute, Shore's original music for the film was scene as not going to work. Or taking Tom Holkenborg, who I just brought up, his score for Sonic 2 (the live action film) actually had a cue from fucking Ant-Man and the Wasp MAKE IT INTO THE FILM because the director loved it as a temp track so much, that they just bought the rights.At this point, I am simply trying to educate you on how this shit works, man. I may or may not work in some capacity in this subject matter as part of my job. Not a big guy. But this is day one stuff.
>>220857509>Mark Hamil disagrees with the character, and its arc.Mark Hamill entered the project with expectations of what he wanted to play and was taken aback to how different the demand was. He also was able to give the acting performance of his life after spending way more time to discuss his character with the writer and director than is customary on most sets.How Hamill spoke about Johnson and their disagreements is nothing compared to how he spoke about Lucas and the dialogue they were given by him over the years. (Or how Alec Guiness or Harrison Ford spoke about Star Wars altogether.) Hamill famously once said in an interview (after Empire Strikes Back) that he'd love to have Luke turn evil in the final film. The thing with Hamill is that he's quite outspoken about his opinion and a bit sarcastic, and if you love that about him, you'll have to give him some leeway in how he comes across rather than seeing every statement of his as a judgement of things you like or dislike.>Most people disagree and rejected itNot sure whom you mean by "most people", considering the film had a mostly positive reception by both critics and general audience members (no, Rotten Tomatos is not a better gauge for that than Cinemascore).>Disney tried to undo the damage in the following film (terribly)Disney didn't do anything. Abrams did. But all he undid was Rey's parentage, Kylo's determination to stay dark and Snoke's death (by replacing him with Palpatine). He notably did not change anything about Luke's arc (which was fully concluded in Last Jedi anyway). You could argue he underused Luke as a character though, considering Last Jedi had teased the possibility that Luke would come back as a force ghost to "haunt" Kylo. I think the initial Trevorrow script even had that.
Which will gross more, Star Wars 1977 re-release or Star Fighter?
>>220848076Do you think that adding as many insults as possible makes your arguments more true
>>220846655Filoni wanted to make it a movie, and he was heavily involved in the writing. Jon Favreau even clashed a few times with Filoni when it came to writing the story and they disagreed. Filoni didn't want to let Jon Favreau cook and keep interfering.
>>220856190Human characters are fictionally human you Mumbai ESL retard
>>220857982That will be the ultimate and final test for Star Wars. The franchise can be considered effectively dead if Star Fighter flops but the re-release of A New Hope makes good enough money.
>>220858013They aren't real. That's the point. They don't have agency. Every action they commit is an action someone else commits for them.
>>220857971Why do you like The Last Jedi exactly? You clearly have a very unique attachment to it, and it's always fascinating to see people who die on a hill over it. Most of you people seem to have disappeared after The Rise of Skywalker. I'm obviously not going to convince you of anything, but I dislike it because I think the movie is antagonistic towards its audience and fans, and people in general who like the characters, for the sake of subversion, and promoting of the "new" characters, who do not stand on their own.
>>220846449took my wifes sons to it>theres only 1 female character>its mostly just the mandalorian and grogu browing out on adventures>the young hutt voice actor sucks but his action scenes were cool>incestuous hutt twins, kinda gross, but interesting i guess>cool new jungle planetall in all it was a good movie, we all had a blast too bad nuWars lost all credibility i get why people dont want to give it a chance
>>220856320>>220856439nta but I've never even heard of this. How do you know so much about it.
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>>220857955>you objectively do not understand the subject matter I am talking aboutProjecting much? The point is that temp tracks don't matter.>they followed closely in the orchestration and writing of the "new" material.I already told you that they do not. Unless you want to claim that episodes 5 and 6 followed episode 4 in the same way and the prequels followed the originals. Of course Star Wars has a signature style. Would you prefer an Indiana Jones style track to show up instead?>utilizes 21 instances of The Force themeWhere do you even get that from?>This tells me that it was likely slotted in by a music editorAgain, if that is your conclusion, then the whole "Skywalker Saga" is plagued by temp tracks.>you do not understand the difference between thematic development, and reusing orchestration and prior material in an exact wayExcept there is no "exact way". You seem to be projecting once again. I just spent a whole post going in-depth into not only new music and how it's very different, but also into where themes were reused (quoted almost literally) and why it made sense, both in Last Jedi and Attack of the Clones.>At this point, I am simply trying to educate you on how this shit worksKek. This is fucking ridiculous. The pompous arsehole who tries to tell me that Williams' work on the sequels sucks and that the Last Jedi was cut so incredibly fast and never let scenes linger with just the music and also is so utterly derivative that it released a soundtrack with 20 completely new tracks, surely needs to educate me on "how this shit works". Yeah, sure.
>>220857890and that doesn't make his performance in the movie gay, you fucking morongod damn you're fucking retarded
>>220853269>soullessThey're the meme goldmine of the entire franchise
>>220858165this is the opinion only a redditor could hold
>>220858106>The point is that temp tracks don't matter.They very much matter. They are the overall skeleton of almost any film score.>I already told you that they do not.I am getting into minutiae I think you genuinely do not understand. We are talking about using exact material from prior score sheets. Down to the same instrumentation, tempo, and notes. This is different from having a specific "style," this is different from "motivic development." >Where do you even get that from?You listen to the score.>Again, if that is your conclusion, then the whole "Skywalker Saga" is plagued by temp tracks.The sequels, yeah.>Except there is no "exact way".Yes. Yes there is. See what I said at the start of this post. Reusing orchestration and arrangements, maybe adjusted slightly for timing. You seem to be confused over leitmotifs, and themes, and reusing material. >it released a soundtrack with 20 completely new tracksThere are plenty of soundtracks that release "new" music that's not particularly new.You should look into how television scoring is done. So much of it is writing as much as you can early on, and then fiddling with that old material to create new stuff. If it's all done in a DAW, then it's even easier.
>>220846770and trans sibling
>>220858073>Why do you like The Last Jedi exactly?It's a great film. You know, as a film. Best cinematography in any Star Wars by far. And better than most mainstream films. Best acting as well. Very strong character writing: It has characters actually go through complete arcs in one film, something only A New Hope did before (albeit in a smaller fashion, and understandably, since it was basically a standalone) - not only talking Luke here, but it's the only one of the sequels where Rey really changes as a character, it gives Finn an actual internal conflict (where Force Awakens only set up an external one), gives Poe any character arc at all (he was meant to die in Fore Awakens, so he was utterly neglected there), manages to develop Kylo into an actual villain and even Hux gets to be dynamic rather than static (even if that means he has to become Kylo's punching bag instead of a respected leader).It's also the most theme-heavy of any Star Wars, and it actually lets people draw their own conclusions rather than spoonfeeding them messages (to the point where most of it goes over some people's heads and they end up thinking Kylo's "let the past die" was the films message).In terms of filmmaking and writing (and no, I don't think people getting their headcanons destroyed is bad writing, but I'm also not someone who ever gets attached to such things) it is right there at the top when it comes to Star Wars, with only Empire possibly competing.>Most of you people seem to have disappeared after The Rise of Skywalker.Frankly, I don't get into these discussions that much anymore either. I have other films to talk about. And, frankly, I think we can all agree that Rise of Skywalker failed on such a basic level (both as a film and a cohesive story) that it's not worth talking about.
>>220858073>I dislike it because I think the movie is antagonistic towards its audience and fansSee, that's where I disagree. Challenging the audience's preconceived notions is not antagonism. It's taking the audience seriously and begging them to ask uncomfortable questions.Have you ever seen a Lars von Trier film? I'm not even a fan of his, but I have to say, this is something he does incredibly well. No, you won't feel good leaving the cinema after seeing his stuff, but it'll make you think. That doesn't mean he wants you to feel bad and hate him. He wants you to take a stance and grow. And Last Jedi was somewhat similar in that respect. Maybe more so for hardcore Star Wars lore-nerds, less so for people like myself. And, well, I guess if you're not used to that approach, that can hit you hard.
>>220858419>Challenging the audience's preconceived notions is not antagonism.I think the entire sequel trilogy is incredibly antagonistic. It undid the original trilogy, and made the entire cast a bunch of failures. Bitter losers. Yes, much of this is JJ's fault, I will absolutely blame him. But the execution of Luke felt incredibly antagonistic. He's a failure. He accomplished nothing. And it's all handed and gifted towards Disney's new characters. For what? The assumption that everyone would love them just as much. They did not.
>>220858400yeah bro i love when they're doing a chase through space and leave the rebel ships to go fuck around on casino planet and then come back that's such great filmmaking LMFAOoh man or when Poe is like pretending he can't hear the ginger bad guy over the com? Hilarious! Truly, a great film, with great writing!
>>220858268>They very much matter.When we look at the final film and its score, no, they don't. They once mattered to the director and editor, maybe somewhat to the composer, but that's it.Can they influence the style? Sure. So what?Do they lead to beat-for-beat recreations? No, usually not. And as I've demostrated, they didn't here either, since most of the music is brand new.>We are talking about using exact material from prior score sheets.Funny how not one single time have you pointed out where this supposedly happened during the film.The only example is one I gave. Well, two. One is Luke's theme in the death scene in Last Jedi. The other is the Imperial March playing in Attack of the Clones in the clone factory (and, yes, that was the original Imperial March, not a thematic variation).>You listen to the score.So in other words, you have no evidence you could point to. Great.>The sequels, yeah.And the prequels even moreso. "It rhymes", remember?>Reusing orchestration and arrangementsAnd again you fail to point out a single scene where that's the case. When you should be able to point out ... 21, was it?>There are plenty of soundtracks that release "new" music that's not particularly new.Oh, please. Just listen to the soundtrack CD. Even if you don't like the film, it's genuinely great. It's fucking John Williams. You cannot credibly tell me that you've listened to it and believe that it isn't entirely new material.
>>220858400Yeah you're right. The Last Jedi does indeed have more character development, thematic depth and intention than any other Disney Star Wars. Unfortunately those characters and themes were fucking garbage so whatever. I'm not gonna hand out participation trophies.
>>220858464>But the execution of Luke felt incredibly antagonistic. He's a failure. He accomplished nothing.The whole point of the film was to show you that that he is not a failure, that he was and still is an inspiration for many and that he can make a difference. Luke is the one major character that gets a big hero moment in the film. Not Rey. Not Poe or Finn or even Leia.You're so consumed where Luke starts out (which is mainly depicting the way he sees himself at that point) that you completely overlook what development he goes through to regain his hope and optimism, and where he ends the film - content, serene, at peace.It doesn't just give Luke everything on a silver platter like you wanted. He had to work for it. And maybe you saw your own darker depths in him. That hurt, and it should. But it also should give you hope to turn things around when your life isn't going well.>>220858538You really seem to be confused as to what character writing is about, anon. It's not about individual plot points, which by themselves aren't good or bad anyway. It's about conflicts, struggles, growth.
>>220858597>than any other Disney Star Wars.No, than any other Star Wars. Period.That's the thing. You get a bit of character development for Luke and Han in the OT. Leia? Nothing. Obi-Wan or Yoda? Static. Vader, only at the very end. That's it.The prequels, Anakin devolves, as expected. Other than that? Padme, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Qui-Gon? Not much growth from any of them.And in terms of themes? It's bleak. The OT has something there, as a whole. Mostly tied to Luke. The prequels? Meh. You can draw some conclusions about why Anakin failed, or rather who failed him. And debate the restrictive nature of something like the Jedi code. But it really isn't that strong all things considered.
>>220858076That's kind of the problem; it's not offensive, it's just pretty eh like the released-to-home-video Ewoks movies that both LucasFilm and Disney like to pretend don't exist.
>>220858657you called it "a great film"I call it "a pile of garbage"
>>220858841Well, film professionals call it "a great film".Butthurt youtubers call it "a pile of garbage".I know which side I'd rather be on.On a more serious note though: If you do understand certain things about filmmaking, you'll be able to see what exactly makes it great. There's a reason I specifically mentioned cinematography. Not only does it stand out in how it uses colour as a narrative tool (which Star Wars has always tried, sometimes more successful, sometimes less so) and for visual clarity. It also has a really striking image composition to the point where even small and unassuming shots just casually do everything right in terms of picture composition rules going back as far as renaissance paintings.Then there's sound editing, and, well, just watch the Holdo Maneuvre if you want to know what effective sound editing looks like - when you notice it. For what it looks like when you don't notice it, there are so many scenes for that. Rey training on the island. Or her meditating while Luke explains the force. Holy shit, what's going on in the soundscape there is not something you ever got in Star Wars before or after. And it's really not insisting on itself or pushing in the foreground.And not to get too technical, there's so much subtext to the visuals. Everything we see on the salt planet Crait is basically a nod to Akira Kurosawa's visual language, who was one of Lucas' big inspirations back when he made Star Wars. You'd only notice that as a film fan, of course, but this is an outright love letter to George Lucas. No wonder he stated that he thought Last Jedi was beautifully made. Parts of it felt like they were made, if not for him, at least with him in mind.
>>220859065>Well, film professionals call it "a great film".An appeal to authority? You know that's a logical fallacy, right? But hey, I've got an opinion by a noted film critic for you: "It stinks!
>>220858771its more entertaining and less pretentious than andor
>>220859133>An appeal to authority?It was tongue-in-cheek. Notice the>On a more serious note thoughtwo lines later? I really though that would give it away.Read said serious note if you want to know not only why I think it's a great film, but probably also why so many film professionals seem to agree.
>>220852382Less than 3% of the population yet here you are
>>220859183Your argument basically boils down to "it looks pretty" which I do not care for even slightly. If I want something to just look pretty, I will look at a painting. For a movie, I want a strong narrative, with strong characters, sensible motivations, and a well-thought-out setting that is logically consistent. That is where The Last Jedi collapses in on itself. A movie is a vehicle for telling a story. And if you can't tell a compelling story, then all of the audio or visual flare is akin to bedazzling a fresh turd.
>>220859281>basically boils down to "it looks pretty"See, that's the difference between film fans ("cinephiles") and, well, people who just happen to like some films (like Star Wars).Cinematography is so much more than just "looking pretty". It's bascially the bread and butter of how films tell their stories. It's the connection between visuals and narrative. I tried to get a bit into that in my post, but it's clear that you're not really receptive to those arguments. Fair enough, I guess. It is a bit meta, and most people don't want to get that deep into the medium itself. I can promise you though, if you ever do, it adds a lot of enjoyment to the viewing experience (for most films at least).>For a movie, I want a strong narrative, with strong characters, sensible motivations, and a well-thought-out setting that is logically consistent.Ironcially, Last Jedi did have all of that. It just didn't give you the exact type of story or characters you expected from Star Wars. Had it not been a film in that franchise, which you therefore approached with lots of rigid expectations, you probably would not have minded. Again, fair enough point, you don't like something that didn't match up with what you wanted. But you can probably also see that it never had any chance to meet every single viewer's expectations anyway. This time you were on the wrong end of the equation, and since you cared a lot about this your expectations for the franchise, you took it hard.
>>220859404I don't particularly consider giving some passing thought as to how a spaceship chase that is central to the movie's plot would logistically function or thinking through how to move characters to new locations and then back again as "rigid expectations." If those are too rigid for Rian Johnson to meet, perhaps he should stick to half-baked murder mysteries set in single locations.
>>220859574>how a spaceship chase that is central to the movie's plot would logistically functionSame way it did in Empire Stikes Back, I guess? You do remember that it literally had that, right?
>>220859404Your argument never mentions the actual storytelling or characters, which, while I agree the movie is all right technically, it has major failures from a storytelling perspective. The technical parts of the film can't carry poor writing.
>>220859662>Your argument never mentions the actual storytelling or charactersLook a few posts further up. I elaborated on character writing in particular in a post chain with another anon. It actually does a lot better than Star Wars usually does.
