>We have so much planned for this exciting new era! I have a script written and casting is underway!>Just joking I lied about all that LOL, fuck you, go and sit on a chair and wait for me to be proven wrong about my run! I did nothing wrong!Previous: >>221070329
>>221075412Honestly they should just fucking do it now but if they’re going to continue with the horseshit we’ve had the last 5 years it’s better to wait.
We got RTD and Moff's opinion. When are we getting Chibbers opinion?
>>221075451He caused this by proxy for being so bad that the BBC begged RTD to return
>>221075417Oh the places that finger has been.
Guess who officially outlived NuWho?
I'm tired bros
Remember when Murray Gold said he saw "multiple" crimbo scripts not all that long ago?
Anyone watched pic related? Full of plot contrivances that end in laughably bad fear porn.
>>221075467currently up a 28 year old twink's anus
>>221075489I heard it had a bunch of orange man and Farage referencesNever saw it
>>221075489>Russell T Davies Gay Drama #47Lol no, why the fuck would I watch that. I've only watched Dr. Who for so long because of Stockholm syndrome.
>>221075478All it took was the blood sacrifice of Sladen
I haven't seen a /who/ general in fucking ages, where were you bros?
>>221075417WOKEISDEADIts about time too
>>221075543you know who kept showing up
>>221075543Dead along with who
>>221075543we're just here for the funeral
>>221075564>>221075567>>221075583If Who is dead could I at least finally get an unironic reply to what the fuck any of this means? At least the tableleg Tennant, I quite literally never understood any of this and I would like to get some closure
>>221075417why was he so angry about people thinking something was happening in his statement
>>221075489RTD is such a boomer. He still believes as soon as you put something online, EVERYONE in your city will see it
>>221075612puns based on the actor's names
>>221075614I don't think he was angry, it's just the way he types. Very faggoty.
>>221075614Because the fans hated finale
Perhaps we can be of some assistance.
>>221075614He and Bad Wolf clearly got fired and he's salty about it. He went into making this era thinking he was the best writer Nu-Who had thanks to the Covid Lockdown. He's now leaving it because he got fired for killing the show when he was hired to fix it with the fans rightfully shitting on him.So he does the usual passive aggressive gay response
>>221075649calm down
>>221075612Also this one>>221075626Are you shitting me? All these years and they were just name puns? It can't be just that right? How is Tennant related to tablelegs or Capaldi related to peg legs? How are both related to a fucking hedgehog?
>>221075666Patrick Troughton - TroutTom and Colin Baker - bakersSylvestor McCoy - McCoy's crisps Christopher Eccleston - eggleston / escaltor kind of sounds like Eccleston dont get Tennant or Capaldi either Paul McGann - Paul McGandle - candle
Reminder that it was doomed from the start
>>221075713Oh my fucking God I've been obsessing over this shit for years and it was so obvious, I'm retarded>dont get Tennant or Capaldi eitherLMAO those were literally the ones I wanted to know the most, I guess it will still keep me up at night
https://strawpoll.com/ajnE1vzAMnW
Wait lads, if Doctor Who if over does that mean.....no more /who/? ;_;
They should have done an episode whey the doctor gets black pilled and goes on an incel shooting fest. Would have been funny instead of the pathetic stuff they put out.
I for one can't wait for Ncuti to throw Russell under the bus.>2022: ZOMG I AM SO PLEASED THAT RUSSELL CAST ME ON THE CASTING COUCH AND STUCK HIS PENIS IN MY BUM>2027: Racist T. Davies is a racist Welsh racist who disrespected my chocolateness because he is a racist 6'6 racist. He dismissed my opinions because he is racist and stifled my creativity because he is racist. He is also a homophobe and a transphobe and I am going to have my penis removed off to spite him.
>>221075766cant work them out but they are both scottish so maybe there's something there. But then again, so is Syl and he doesn't have a peg leg or hedgehog hat
>>221075612With Tennant and Capaldi it's alliteration. Tableleg Tennant and Pegleg Peter.
>>221075782
These youtube thumbnails are cracking me the fuck up
>>221075778Is this from that WhoCulture channelUtterly bizarre how that channel has so many shillsI remember when Harbo Wholmes shat on them for being pure WatchMojo-style corporate slop and his comments were full of seethe over him saying that
>>221075792remember when he made a BBC joke on instagram after Ncuti's casting too
>>221075787Yeah... :( I haven't seen these threads in so long and it might actually be the end (not that it was very alive lately anyways)>>221075794Shit I think this might be it >>221075813 this is great thanks, don't get the hedgehog but it was actually all much easier to decipher than I thought
Robert Shearman was right. By ending it with the Piper regeneration, RTD has effectively ended Doctor Who - not just show, but the whole thing itself. The story cannot be continued and any future stories will have to be set in the show's past. What an impressive feat.
>>221075856hedgehogs might just be in reference to their hair. Tennant had spiky hair in his run (like a hedgehog) and Capaldi's hair went a bit mental by the end
>>221075856>it might actually be the endBut the moment has been prepared for...
>>221075856There's been a few /who/ threads these past few weeks.
>>221075478didn't NuWho officially die in 2022? this is NuNuWho getting cancelled after only two and a half seasons.
>>221075869Remember when Jane Tranter was seething over his commentsShe would have known there was no christmas special by that point
>mogs every nudoctor
>>221075897I missed them all since I stopped frequently visiting /tv/ (I mostly came for /who/ so) I spent most of that time on /sp/
>>221075764There was hope back then.
>>221075914he's a nudoctor too tho
>>221075787/who/ could see a brief revival when the cbeebies show airs, but after that, it's over.
>>221075612the joke is that this is an opposite thread
eternal reminder
>>221075869If the show is ever picked up again, rebooting it is pretty much a necessity. Chibnall and RTD2 did a really thorough job of destroying everything and making it impossible for anyone else to actually continue the story.
Now that the dust has settled, this was the only good episode in the show.
>>221075972i aint even putting in my top 5
The Angels Take Manhattan still baffles me
>>221075972One of maybe sevenish.
>>221075972Lol fuck off. Blink is basic bitch shit and has been forced so hard that even Zombie Doctor Who took a potshot at the meme, pic related. Next time name a legit kino episode like Dalek.
Send in the universe's greatest assassin to save the show
>>221075957Just do it like Rose - The new Doctor is already there with no mention of how he regenerated. The Time Lords/Gallifrey aren't mentioned, leaving the possibility for their introduction later. Any plot holes can be filled by books/comics/audios for those who care.
>>221075897I guess they’ll die off if the BBC doesn’t find a co-producer soon. How likely is that? On the one hand, the last co-production appeared to be a disaster since Disney dropped it as soon as they could and didn’t even bother showing everything they could. On the other hand, is that the BBC’s fault or RTDs? If they can blame RTD then I guess there’s no reason for another company to step up?
>>221076034i hear Death (literal Death) got her :(
>>221076019Hahaha they made fun of #ripdoctorwho that’ll teach those stupid haters don’t they know the show is queerer and stronger than ever and is going to last … oh wait …
>>221076034>ONE SHOW
>There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream. People made of smoke, and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, and somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
>>221076113funniest thing about that is the woman who says that looks like the exact opposite of people who say that
>anthology show is quintessentially collective>give absolute power over it to a single guy>it ends in shit>who could have tell????
>>221076034Every time I see this clip, her turns to the next camera angle always remind me of that one Nathan Fielder bit and I just crack up even more.
Doctor Who died on 2 June 2005.and it already was RTD who killed it.
>>221075778https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaRAhLiN0rY&t=4s
>>221076019The show shit on Doctor Who fans for... liking Blink? The fact happened? RTD trying to get back at Moffat or something? Those people don't even look like chuds.
>>221076233>The fact*The fuck
>>221076150>quintessentially collectiveThe classic series had all power in the hands of 2 people (producer and script editor) and the producer had the final say anyway, so it really wasn't that different.The script editor also rewrote whole stories from top to bottom on many occasions like RTD did.
>>221076138A classy dignified way to end your show. Total opposite of RTD2
>>221075417Looks like a fat version of Pat Cooper with a boil on his face, nice... my boss just walked by
>>221076201Is Gallifrey Chronicles decent? You can still get it for 10 quid off Amazon
>>221075883That makes sense, enough for me, thanks!
>>221076297>He's right behind me, isn't he?
>>221076297RIP Pat, god I miss him
>>221073982It makes you wonder what the actors who played the Doctor must think about it all.
>>2210762572 people is better than one.and none of them could normally write a full serial, script editors often ghostwrote, but it was more one serial in some seasons as a last resort.it was absolutely different and that's why the show ran for 26 years. NuWho's showrunner cult doomed it from the start. having RTD's whims treated as unretconnable canon when tons of similar shit was ignored before in the Classic series was a clear warning of the Oncoming Storm.you sucked RTD's dick. now shut up and eat his shit and think better about how you inevitably ended up here.
>>221076377>you sucked RTD's dick. now shut up and eat his shit and think better about how you inevitably ended up here.I didn't even watch the last 2 seasons lol
>It's okay! We've totally got plans for a Christmas spec-
>>221076019It's always a good sign when shows start making fun of their fans.
>>221075417>even the brits hate progressive leftistsjoin the club bruvs
>>221076412anon, that shit started in 2005. you sucked him up in 2005. maybe you didn't know better, too bad. the seeds were sown.others were more lucid about the NuWho format and the showrunner system.
Anyone who unironically likes the Ruth Doctor's a faggy nerd.
>>221076419based Davidson
Is the wiki still up?
>>221076138Ghost Light was supposed to be the finale, but the order was shuffled to get Fenric in for Halloween.
>>221076423> I've never been able to visit it before now, but I've got all sorts of souvenirs. Copies of all the advertising satellites that have ever been sent out. All the posters. I had a long correspondence with one of the founder members too, soon after it started. Although I never got to see the early days, I know it's not as good as it used to be but I'm still terribly interested.
>>221076233Blink is the standard overrated Doctor Who episode. If you're parodying the fandom that's something you need to include.
>>221076301>You can still get it for 10 quid off AmazonCan you fucking nerds quit paying for shit? You can get them online for free. You fucking dorks are WEIRD.
>>221076458>you sucked him up in 2005.not unless I have some horribly traumatic childhood memory that I've suppressed
>>221075417I am glad it is over in as much that it has been put out of its misery, but it is ultimately cultural vandalism how both incompetently and spitefully Doctor Who was ran into the ground. I do not need to list all the ways as you all now the multitude there are, but there is just so many utter fuckups and lowering of the bars to new lows with it. It is like if someone shitposting 15 years back or in an alternate world about what would be the most hyperbolic retarded decisions they the show could make.
Pick your endings, anons. What's your cut off point? Not just tv, but other media too.
>>221076180Fucking hell this never fails to make me laugh, BBC are so unbelievably shit
This is Emergency Programme One. Anon, now listen, this is important. If this message is activated, then it can only mean one thing. We must be in danger, and I mean fatal. The show is dead or about to die any second with no chance of rebooting.And I bet you're fussing and moaning now, typical! But hold on and just read a bit more. Doctor Who can never return. Emergency Programme One means we're facing a writer that should never get their hands on this show. So this is what you should do. Let Doctor Who die. Just let this old show gather dust. No one can watch it. No one'll even notice it. Let it become a strange little thing advertised on a streaming catalogue. And over the years, the world'll move on and the show will be buried. And if you want to remember it, then you can do one thing. That's all, one thing. Have a good life. Do that for Who, Anon. Have a fantastic life.
>>221076563got to be The Doctor Falls innit?
>>221076591Too basic.
>>221076563I can accept everything up to 12th before he regenerates - as some sort of cope view of either ignore what follows and we do not know who he regenerates into, or even just the Doctor accepts death. The more I watch of Classic I am tempted to just to say when Classic ends and probably expand that to include the 8th Doctor film. I am yet to check out Big Finish or any of the books. On which note, any 8th Doctor Big Finish recommendations?
>>221076563books: 2005audio: 2015TV/comic: 2017
>>221076630>any 8th Doctor Big Finish recommendations?Scherzo is my favourite but i'd listen to Storm Warning through to Zagreus first
>>221076630>any 8th Doctor Big Finish recommendations?Start with Storm Warning if you want Classic style 8 storiesStart with Blood of the Daleks if you want New Who style 8 stories.
C'rizz sucks.
>>221076301NoThe EDAs fall off the rails with the "stranded on Earth" arc
>>221075972>>221076511TRVTH NVKE: Blink is a mediocre episode that is only rated because it introduced the Weeping Angels and they do all the heavy-lifting. Carey Mulligan was a bitch and her role should have been swapped with that bubbly brunette babe from the start of the episode, she mogs her both in looks and as a character. I also didn't appreciate the mangina brother character.>HURR DURR HURRY UP SALLY THEY'RE GETTING CLOSER *BOOM* *THWOMP* I'M GOING TO PISS MY PANTS *THRASH* *SCREECH*
>>221075412From what?
If you're doing a chronological order with BF and the books, the Lungbarrow would be after Zagreus. 7 being present is because 8 was indisposed due to the events of the latter story. Same thing happened in The Apocalypse Element where 6 showed up instead of 7, who was the present Doctor at that time. What makes it even greater is that Lungbarrow sets 7 on the path to becoming 8.
>>221076630>On which note, any 8th Doctor Big Finish recommendations?Literally just go from Storm Warning onwards, and give up whenever you feel like it. The wonderful thing about McGann is that it's completely new Who. He's never been tied to pre-established continuity like 5 through 7 have, so Big Finish are free to take his Doctor wherever they like. Even with Night of the Doctor in 2013 providing a definitive end, that's still an entire undiscovered country. The downside to that fact is that it means they can keep going as long as they like without ever having to actually wrap things up. Off the top of my head the 8th Doctor has about three different periods in his life they're still actively continuing right now, and they've just announced a series even further on in his life with a new set of companions. So it's easier/better to recommend that you simply go up to whenever you get bored, rather than try to listen to his hundreds of hours of stories.
>>221076699A great big fat bastard who eviscerates his victims, parades them around as skinsuits, and plagues Doctor Who with a toxic stench. Here we find him standing next to a Slitheen.
missed cheese
What comics, if any, are worth looking into?
>>221075417This is what I was told several months ago by a guy who knows a guy. I'm not claiming my Uncle works for Nintendo so take it with salt.The Xmas/Easter special may not have been scripted but it was plotted. It would have been another cameofest. It would have been Bad Wolf/Rose basically going through the Doctor's timeline in what was described as "Moff trying to make Rose more important than Clara." At the end the new Doctor was supposed to be an old one...again. They begged Matt Smith to come back for a mini season like Tennant and offered him a ton of money (by BBC standards) but he turned them down to concentrate on GOT and Star Wars (incidentally Disney offered him a lot for a 3 picture deal as the villain in the new trilogy but he didn't want to spend 9 years dealing with it. So they reversed the plan for his character's sister to get killed in the first film and he'd be out for revenge for the other two). So they got a nominal agreement from Tennant to come back...again. It would been a repeat of last time where Tennant would have become the carefully cast next Doctor under an approved Showrunner and they would have gotten a mini season immediately following Tennants callback and EVERYTHING would have been riding on it. If it didn't hit the needed numbers it was going to be put away for several years. It looks like they've gone to that, unless somebody is willing to put money into it under this "competitive tender" thing.
>>221076774AIDS
>>221076778Obviously there would not be all the Eight Doctor audios done by him if things were different but, seems a shame McGann never had a better career and had to do Big Finish.
>>221076774I dunno, whatever killed Anthony Head? If there's any justice in this world then Tennant won't live longer than he did.
>>221076823He has a wife though.
221076820>Moffyou were doing good until then
>>221076778How long is Eight supposed to have lived for?
>>221076819literally anything that isn't titanslop
>>221076741>The EDAs fall off the rails with the "stranded on Earth" arcHad the thought to have 8 regenerate at the end of The Ancestor Cell, so the later books would feature a 9th Doc instead.
Giving me the most absurd, creatively retarded, or whatever is just hyper autistic EU lore. The more esoteric the better.
>There are shows being cancelled all over your world, yet you do not care about them.
>>221076778I know we slam doink on Big Finish nowadays but it's honestly crazy how great McGann's run was for the longest time when you think about it. You had his initial kino run with Charley. It went a bit off the rails with the C'rizz stuff but then you have a rare case of executive meddling actually working out when they launched the Eighth Doctor Adventures with Lucie Miller, which was just dynamite from start to finish. That first Dark Eyes was also good before Big Finish collapsed under the weight of Briggs's boxset fetish but that still adds up to nearly 10 years of McGann Gold right there.
>>221076819>Frobisher stories>8th Doc runBTW, the Flood was supposed to have 8 regenerate into 9.
>>221076879There's that one audio in the Lucie Miller series where he lives on one planet for 600 years. Come to think of it, if you include everything from the various books, comics and audio series he could be a contender for the longest-lived Doctor.
>>221075782Grace > Rose
>>221076819https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/DWM_comic_storiesSteve Parkhouse's Doctor Who Magazine run starting at the end of the 4th Doctor and continuing throughout the 5th and the start of the 6th. Also the ones Grant Morrison wrote for the 6th.The 8th Doctor's run (actually starting with the last few stories before he's introduced that set up the Threshold arc, I'd say from The Curse of the Scarab onward), but especially The Glorious Dead.I also enjoyed the 10th Doctor's Titan run, though it's technically unfinished.https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Doctor_Who:_The_Tenth_Doctor
>>221076837He's not had a BAD career. Just not as big a career as some of his contemporaries. If you look at his credits he's been working pretty consistently since he began. Sure, he's had some bad luck (breaking his leg on the pilot of Sharpe, Doctor Who not being commissioned for a series) but I don't think that's an awful career. Any filmography with Withnail & I in it is worth celebrating.>>221076879Frankly, it doesn't really matter. The Doctor's age has almost never lined up whenever it's stated in the show. If you really want to, it's easy to say that 8 lived for however long you like and chalk up any discrepancy to the Time War de-aging him at some point.FWIW, there is a story in the Lucie Miller run where it's an explicit plot point that the Doctor spends 600 years stranded on Orbis>>221076946When Big Finish is good, it's great. A shame they've been mostly wank for about a decade now. But there's plenty of great stories in the years before that and every so often, they come up with another good one here and there.
>>221076971>if you include everything from the various books, comics and audio series he could be a contender for the longest-lived Doctor.Those were intended to be seperate universes.
>>221076989
Would you rather 8 regenerate at the end of To the Death, or keep Dark Eyes 1 and nothing else? The former gives an origin for 9's accent.
>>221075782Shit taste, losers.It's Peri.
>>221077009What's this from?
>>221076921Most shows being cancelled today are either 8 episode Netflix slop or paint-by-numbers network TV slop. Not shows that have been around since before we went to the moon.
>>221076920Lance Parkin wanted 8 to marry Bernice Summerfield and have 13 kids with her. And one of their sons is the First Doctor due to how regeneration works.
I think it's very fitting that worst-written period in the show's history ended with them regenerating the Doctor into an old companion without anyone on the writing or production staff giving any thought to why or what it might mean or what might happen next. It's emblematic, it's like a big banner strung across the end of the show that reads "This is why we failed". I'm so glad it's finally over and the disgustingly decayed zombie that the show became can finally lie back down in its grave and die again, it was in so much pain.
>>221077041I have no idea. I almost certainly got it from a thread one here at whatever point. I have it saved from 2025. For all I know that could be 20 years old at this point in terms of its actual creation.
>>221076987https://tardis.wiki/wiki/DWM_comic_storieshttps://tardis.wiki/wiki/Doctor_Who:_The_Tenth_DoctorFTFY
>>221077026Why would he ever regenerate in To the Death?>The former gives an origin for 9's accent.The accents aren't even close lad
Which actor will you be seething forever that never got a shot at the Doctor now?
>>221077113You know his name.
>>221077113Johnny Vegas
>>221077113Anthony
>>221077097Marc Platt wanted Leela to be the Doctor's human mother. Whereas fatty Kate Orman wanted her Mary Sue self insert to be the Doctor's mom using ideas from McGann's scrapped show. Big diff there is that the show would've made the Doctor's mom an Egyptian princess, with the Doctor's dad being hailed as a god. Forgot which one.
>>221077113This does not apply to the question of Doctor Who now, and he is dead anyway, but I, have no idea if this is based on anything at all, seen lots of fan casting for alternate timelines of the show where Richard Griffiths became the Doctor. It just makes me really interested to think what his Doctor would have been like.
>>221077150>fatty Kate OrmanBit mean.Cheers,Jon Blum
>Bernice Summerfield>Iris Wildthyme>Penelope Gate>Miranda DawkinsThese are proto-nuwho characters. Yes, in a bad way.
>>221077130>Push, old chap!
The next Doctor should be a Capaldi-style remembered face regeneration, but with James Corden.
>>221077173>Proto-River Song>Proto-River Song crossed with Deadpool>Proto-River Song>Proto-River Song
Ncuti > Tennant
>>221077168>Bit mean.Tough.I hate self inserts. Especially since she described Penelope Gate as a "plump"(FAT) redhead who was the first to build a time machine in Victorian times and that's why Ulysses thought she was hot shit. Disgusting.
>>221077173I only know of the first two, and vaguely at that. Explain to me as a non-EU anon.
>>221077191>The next Doctorbro...
>>221077177I think we should become a Death in Paradise General now. They regenerate their lead every few years too and all.
>>221075792Ncuti should accuse Rusty of sexual assault or something, that would be the most hilarious outcome.
>>221077168QRD on Jon Blum?
>>221076920Jar Jar Binks is real and sent a psychic message to George Lucas so he would put in in Star Wars
>>221077203>Proto-River Song>Proto-River Song/Proto-Missy>The Doctor's super badass mom>The Doctor's super badass daughter
>>221077113I think Daniel Ings would have been great. He brought good manic-depressive energy in The Gentlemen.
>>221077203>Bernice7 companion that replaced Ace for a bit until she came back so it was a trio.>IrisRule 63 Doctor>Penelope GateKate Orman's shitty self insert>Miranda8's blonde daughter. Jenny before Jenny.
>>221077252>7 companion that replaced Ace for a bit until she came back so it was a trioAnd she's an archeologist from the future.>8's blonde daughter. Jenny before JennyAnd was implied to be Susan's mother.
>>221075782Martha Jones should have way more
Lmao get rekt nu-cunts. It's about fucking time.
Cold Fusion's audio version had the Other played by McCoy which is interesting. And the Doctor's son and Susan's father played by Peter Davison, which is also interesting.https://youtu.be/hsVDZBVXQq0
The Eighth Doctor Adventures novels seem like they were a lot worse than the Eighth Doctor Adventures audios, especially with unrestrained authors going crazy
>>221075782What exactly do you, and if you are not the same guy the other guy who did that poll however long ago, hope to discern from this?
>>221077113Jeffrey Epstein
>>221077322Don't forget the gay shit they tried to pull with 8 and Fitz.
>>221077198People always forget about Scarlette from The Adventuress of Henrietta Street when talking about River Song inspirations.Moffat basically took her and Benny, mashed them together, and threw in his own fetishes.
Seeing talk about Big Finish. A lot of the time it seems to be the undercurrent that it lost its way at some point. When and why exactly did it become bad?
>>221077322I'd honestly prefer BF adapted some of the books but with the BF companions instead.
>>221077113Jack Black
>>221077322Briggs Finish had better standards (emphasis on had)
>>221077344When it got the New Who license.
Why didn't any of the nu-Who Master incarnations DREZZZZZZZ for the occasion?
>>221077344Boxsets, impersonators, generally weaker writing across the board and the grotesque mashing together of Classic and NuWho elements.
>>221075417That middle finger looks familiar...
>>221077344It's these >>221077363 >>221077370and when multi-Doctor stories started being done on a whim instead of coinciding with an anniversary.
>>221077352Matt Smith was pretty much skinny British Jack Black. But he reined in the hyperactive grade schooler act when the scene called for it. Jack Black only has one setting. Loud.
>>221077344Basically Briggs took over in 2008 and over the course of the early/mid 2010s it became more about nostalgia/”recapturing the feeling" of old episodes than about telling compelling stories.Then they got the NuWho license and it became about fanwank.
>>221075417
>>221077366Someone headcanoned this order for the Master>Frontier in Space>TV Movie>Mastermind>The Deadly AssassinThoughts?
I miss Gary Russell era BF. The atmosphere on those first ninety Main Ranges remains unmatched.
Bros, is it true? I just heard the news. Is it canceled for real? Are we finally free?
>>221077456Yesh
>>221077344There's a point about 2013-15 where they just began stretching themselves way too far. Their best stories/arcs are almost all from the first decade or so of their existence.By now, they've committed hard to the prospect of putting out multiple long-running series side by side each month. This relative flood of pure content means that they've long since lost the chance to keep any semblance of consistent quality (although early BF certainly had some shite) while paradoxically becoming far less experimental. It's also near-impossible to keep up with all of it unless you're a pirate with no life. That's not to say there's absolutely no quality modern BF. It's just a lot rarer. Plus, it means that a lot of older actors I like get a nice easy day's work, so I think it's good for them at least.
>>221077464What about the Christmas Special?
>>221077495lol
>>221077495Scrapped. There also was never a script for it.
>>221077495Anon...
>>221077525To this!
>>221077495Erased.
>>221077516>There also was never a script for it.That's an RTD cope lie.
>tfw they absolutely shat all over your legacy and it all splattered back in their faces
>>221076519Fun fact: you could also get them for free if you were a freezing Polish orphan in the 2000s.
>>221077456No, actually.
>>221077562Is this real? /Is this real?/
>there will never be a cute femboy companion
>>221077559
>>221077562This was the 1990s and they were talking like it was 1945
>>221077610I love the faces Hartnell would do. Just in general his mannerism as the Doctor are great.
>>221077562Is that photo really what Poland looked like 20 years ago?
Business idea for the reboot: Stay the fuck away from Earth. Stay away from humanity except in the distant future where we've spread out into the galaxy. NO EARTH. NO CARDIFF.
>>221077495They can't find a Doctor for it.
>>221077643Sorry, best I can do is one dimensional old bigot.
>>221077536I don't get it.
Anyone interested in giving this thing a go?https://grids.fun/t/about-me-doctor-who-7l3sd?list=movies
>>221077559How did they shit on his legacy?
>>221077609
>>221077599yup, it's from thishttps://tardis.wiki/wiki/Love_and_War_(documentary)
>>221077556No, it's the truth. A script existing was the actual lie.
>>221077689All that shit with Timeless Child and the fat Jamaican woman Doctor.
>>221077650Too expensive
>>221075417I got introduced to Doctor Who through NuWho and over several years have been gradually watching Classic. I do not know if it is just that I prefer Classic or if what NuWho descended into has tainted by perception of NuWho that even has value but in any case, NuWho may as well not exist to me at this point. The only unquestionable thing of value is it getting me to watch Classic.
>>221077764Nuwho > classic who
apologize.... /tv/.
>>221077783RTD, it is over. You lost.
>>221076563The 50th anniversary movie for retconning what had become a crucial component to the universe lore and the Doctor's background? I wouldn't mind if some time lords found a way to preemptively break from Gallifrey and survive what the Doctor did to end the war, but taking that darkness away from the character after so many years where it was foundational to his identity? It was total retardation. Still, even though it came afterward, The Name of the Doctor was probably the best ending for it. Very holy in the sense that he's literally defending Christmas. If I could I'd alter the pretense to be such that the Doctor still destroyed Gallifrey and the crack is some breakaway time lords that want him dead as much as everyone else, basically setting a trap woven into the fabric of time so he is destined to die there, until of course Clara's words manage to convince them to have mercy and help him.
>>221077783
It's time for an AMERICAN Doctor Who.Let some American network adapt it for a US audience.
>>221077813I blame Saward more than JNT.
>>221077813Moffat > JNT>>221077815Moffat > RTD
>>221077831The movie and the nuTenant/Gatwa era were attempts at that.
>>221077875Smith era is more American than the Gatwa era.
>>221077875also series 6
>>221077893Gatwa was bankrolled by Disney for the American audience. Smith had a few America-focused episodes like that one with Crowley from Supernatural in it.
>>221075417I am glad it is finally put out of its misery but, this is both such an open ended clusterfuck it ends on and a whimper at that. Ending in 89 at least had the riding off into the sunset aspect to it, and the Eighth tv movie had the ability to use him as a springboard for new stuff.
>>221077831Latina companion
>>221077875No, dude, no they weren't. RTD was still entirely in charge.In any case, I'm saying adapt it in the sense that The Office was adapted.(Hopefully not shit, though. THe Office sucks.>>221077906Chubby latina companion.
Where did it all go wrong my fellow Whovians?
>>221077947This guy changed clothes too damn much.
>>221077906Got ya covered.
Episode idea: Pakistani Doctor heads to a mosque in Islamabad because he only feels comfortable around muslims
>>221077893The Smith era came at tbe right time to be a global hit with the tumblr crowd. For black who RTD just banked on "bits" that he hope would generate reactions regardless of if he knew shat he was doing in the long run
Hear me out, hear me out:American Doctor modeled on Edgar Allan Poe.
>>221077967Why is there blood on her?
>>221077969>BRAH MUH HAIR BRAHngl this episode was gay as fuck.
>>221077311Based.
>>221077991It also made no sense.
>>221077969Why did he forgive the bad guy?
>>221077989Because she's on her period, duh.
>>221077984An episode where he meets Poe would unironically be cool. Could maybe make something out of the weird way he died too if done right
>>221078007It would have been more realistic if the Doctor killed the barber in a drive-by shooting.>No second chances. I'm that sort of a nigger!
>>221077989Mexicans have a natural blood lust.
>revives doctor who>kills doctor whopottery
>>221077969People will tell you with a straight face that this was a good episode. It's like the Rosa or Demons of the Punjab of RTD2
>>221075417stop trying to bait lee, he's dead
>>221078045It was better than Journey's End.
>>221077836I blame Saward and Ian Levine too
>The only new episodes of Doctor Who we're getting this year are the two recovered Hartnell episodesClassic chads win again
>>221077999It was originally written to be a Jodie episode so yeah
>>221078169Why would that episode be written for a white female?
I haven't watched Doctor Who since Tenant left way back when.Is this a good place to jump back in? I keep seeing people talk about it, so it must be good.
>>221078157I hope we get complete Hartnell and Troughton sets eventually. Fuck the BBC for destroying their archives.
I honestly think this is all a butterfly effect of KtM anon hyping up Kill the Moon beyond measure
>>221078214Anon, if they'd not destroyed the old tapes of Doctor Who where the fuck would they store the tapes of Jim'll fix it?
>>221078157It's also caused more and more people to watch classic and realize how kino it was
What caused the decline of the show, in your opinion?
>>221078250Canonising sex-change regeneration
>>221078250Welsh nationalism.
>>221078209That anon is shitposting but tbf the episode is set at a hair salon. I sure would rather have seen Jodie glow luscious blonde locks going down to her arse rather than Ngubu growing kinky arse wog hair.
>>221078250Poor showrunners combined with pandering to certain crowds.
HAHAHAHAAHAAAHAHHAHHHAHAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAHHAHHHAHAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHA
>>221078246I'm falling asleep watching early Hartnell. Where do I skip to?
>>221075972She was so hot it's unreal
>>221078295Honestly, you could skip ahead to Pertwee and go back to any Hartnell and Troughton kinos at random
>>221078250Honestly the changing times within the BBC itself. You could tell by S10 era Capaldi that the people pulling the strings were forcing the woke shit harder than ever. I think Moffat was really the bulwark holding the worst of it back and I'll always think he's based for seeing that ahead of time and giving us one final old school old man Doctor for the last time. By S10 you could tell the internal institutional invasion was complete.
>>221078308Best teeth in the game. Say what you want about nuwho, but you have to admit she has a spectacular gob.
>>221078214What gets me is how the BBC keep dragging their heels with the animated episodes. I personally prefer to watch the Loose Cannon recons but I do appreciate that it makes the classics more accessible to as yet unenlightened plebs. It's fucking ridiculous that they started it back in 2006 and still haven't finished them all. That and the wildly varying quality.
>>221078250Beyond just the wider cultural war stuff and the attitudes of the BBC and the creative industry in general, the showrunner concept and the small clique of writers. The showrunner puts too much work on a single person, and the advantage of the producer / script editor concept is they can often mutually tard wrangle the other. The small clique of writers meant 1) it was similar ideas both due to them all agreeing on a lot of stuff and just in general output they could provide, 2) very likely pushed others from being able to or wanting to work on the show, and 3) it created a situation where you get a situation where the only option to inherit the mantle of showrunner gets determined to be the likes of Chibnall, considered not really good as a writer for Doctor Who and Torchwood, and RTD again.
>>221078340Mouth like an Aardman character
Watching the deadly assassin oh fucking well no more faggot TV show going forward
>>221078308This is what Davros saw as he flew into the jaws of the Nightmare Child.
>>221078356>That and the wildly varying quality.a lot of the animated episodes are fucking terrible
>>221078379>50th anniversary special finally shows the time war in full swing>no nightmare child, no other abominations>it's just timelords with star wars blasters and daleks with their conventional weapons
>>221077407That approach has always annoyed me. What I like about early BF is that it's so fresh feeling. They are explicitly not trying to make the TV show.
>>221078340
>>221078304For me, Pertwee's first season clipped along; I barely even noticed that it was all 7-parters aside from Spearhead, which was 4, that's how engaging it was.
>>221078308It's never been more over than it was at this precise moment
>>221078385Funnily enough I think the Shalka-type recon they did of The Invasion is better than the recent ones.
>>221076180
>>221076180What were they thinking with this?
>>221078250Chasing an audience that doesn’t exist. Same thing that killed every other nerd IP. People who virtue signal about wanting “more queer and BIPOC voices” do NOT pay for entertainment. Even when it’s free they don’t show up. It’s like that Smiling Friends episode where they go to the video game villain’s house and he’s like “Ooh sorry I just have so much going on right now. I wish I could hang out, but you know…”
Our man lived long enough to see Doctor Who die twice.
What's worth watching from this series as a newfag? I watched a little bit of Tenant Doctor Who as a kid, this shitposting has sparked my interest. The Reddit/Tumblr fanbase in the 2010s dissuaded me before.Any runs with genuine good writing and substance? Or was it mostly slop in the first place?
>>221075489Fear porn?
>>221078501Flee anon while you still can.
>>221078494Why did she colour her bottom lip?
>>221078465I think they just wanted to give some old jew's niece a job.
>>221078501Fundamentally it's a kids show. Sure it has moments where they turn to the camera and make a joke for the parents, but there's nothing mind-blowingWatching this doesn't make much sense if you don't have nostalgia for it. I'd steer clear
>>221078501I imagine IMDB ratings are not all that far off from being reasonably reflective. I take it you are asking about NuWho and not Classic? Or do you want Classic Who recommendations?
Are we regenerating?
>>221078501If you've already seen Blink, you don't need to bother.
>>221076502I just found Ghost Light confusing, A master story was much better to end on.
>>221078561Anon, time enough.
>>221078546What's a higher brow scifi series you fags recommend instead? Genuine question. Can be any medium, not necessarily TV.>>221078556I don't know the difference but I'm fine with older shows.
>>221078572Ghost Light, like a lot of late JNT era stories, felt like a rushed first draft script put to screen
1. Straight White Man2. Straight White Man3. Straight White Man4. Straight White Man5. Straight White Man6. Straight White Man7. Straight White Man8. Straight White Man9. Straight White Man10. Straight White Man11. Straight White Man12. Straight White Man13. Lesbian White Woman'Fugitive Doctor' Black Woman, also the show reveals #1 wasn't really #1, and there's tons of previous foreign doctors, breaking decades of lore.14. #10 back again for some mental reason15. Gay Black ManGee... I wonder where the show went wrong? I guess we never can tell.
>I actually want to go
>>221077783t. gay
>>221078584>>221078501Pyramids of Mars, The Talons of Weng-Chiang, City of Death. That's 3 fourth Doctor serials that have a good reputation. Honestly, you are going to get a bunch of different answers if we are to not shitpost reply to you. The recommendation of checking imdb likely has value in it as a rough guide. Probably just reading synopsis as well and seeing what sounds interesting to you may have value. A lot of Classic is basically stand alone that you can largely around the different eras of the show. Classic is serialised in what is essentially TV films broken up into parts.
>>221077311It must have been rough for these people to see it just constantly get worst.
>>221077344BF has always felt like twee cbeebies tier story telling in how the actor read their lines.
>>221078608The first 7 Doctor's weren't straight.
"Doctor... I let you go." *Dies and takes the show with him.*
>>221075417The only good thing RTD2 did was Tales from the Tardis and putting Classic Who on iPlayer for more people to watch. Everything else was shite.
>>221078723Susan is his Granddaughter... explain, explain!
>>221077113After seeing him in that one episode of Timeless where he time travels to the 1920s I would've killed for Paterson Joseph.
Has anyone checked how Jay Exci has handled the news? Has he finally flayed Karen Gillan alive and worn her skin?
>>221078846Didn't that guy stop posting on his YouTube channel?
>>221078584Farscape is pretty much everything I wish Doctor Who was, so there's that.It's got the same sense of fun and anarchy, but it's an actual really really good show.
>>221078608In fairness it went wrong with 11 because Moffat can’t write for shit.All he knows is>most special man in the world who is revered as a god>plucky young woman who is sassy sometimes>mature dominatrix milf who is smug and can outwit god complex man>human personification of cuckoldry itself
>>221078494If we're talking Smiling Friends bits the whole situation especially reminds me of this one.https://youtu.be/xO0yuf-ToAk?is=xsv89bn6BTiOP4q-
>>221078214The story of what the BBC did could make for a fun lighthearted meta episode of The Doctor travelling back in time with a companion to find lost episode of a show they like.
>>221078846Maybe they should make another five hour video.
>>221078881NTA but I tried watchy it and it is slooooowI don’t know why Americans ever thought it was acceptable to shit out 22 episode long seasons but I’m fucking glad we’ve moved past it
>>221078908>theyCome on anon, youre with us 4channelers now, treat yourself to calling him “faggot”
>>221078883>>most special man in the world who is revered as a godThis started with 10 and 11 was about subvooting this.
>>221075782>Amy, Clara and Martha all way above RoseYou anons are alright.
>>221078943This is legendary cope. 11s literal introduction was a monologue about how scary he is and the ayys running away in fear once they know who he is. And then during the fucking shitty astronaut arc an entire religious order is dedicated to stopping him (somehow???) and his name brings terror and hope across the universe.Fucking mental to call that a “subversion” it wasn’t it was the shit Moffat wrote for Sherlock but on a scifi scale
>>221078921It takes a minute to get in gear, but once it goes, it goes. It finds it's feet somewhere in the back end of season 1, once Chiana joins the crew.
>>221078979I made my boyfriend sit through about 9 episodes of it with promises that it gets good when the bad guy shows up, just couldn’t commit to getting that far.
>>221078976Yeah and once he realizes that people fear him and make all these legends BECAUSE of his boastfulness he decides to step backUnlike 10 who embraced being "the lonely god" and all that bullshit
>>22107899710 very briefly flirted with the idea and it was immediately torn to shreds in the specials where he decided he could control time itself and then someone he saved fucking shot herself. Moffat took that, multiplied it by 100 and said it was a good thing. Fuck of with this “took a step back” shit, it literally didn’t happen.
Why do Moffspergs blame him for things that RTD did, and was worse about it?
>>221079024>DORIUM: So you're going to do this? Let them all think you're dead?>DOCTOR: It's the only way, then they can all forget me. I got too big, Dorium. Too noisy. Time to step back into the shadows. Are you illiterate? Oh, I can tell you're a ReTarD. I can smell the cum on your breath.
>>221079045>LOOK MOFFAT WROTE A LINE ABOUT HIM STEPPING BACK INTO THE SHADOWS SO THATS WHAT HAPPENED!!!!!Actual fucking spastic, no wonder youre still watching Who in 2026
>>221078976>11s literal introduction was a monologue about how scary he is and the ayys running away in fear once they know who he is.Which is also a set up for the season 5 finale where his enemies team up and bait him into a trap.>And then during the fucking shitty astronaut arc an entire religious order is dedicated to stopping him (somehow???) and his name brings terror and hope across the universe.Which is a specific response to the fact the Doctor had been too loud and proud, which has now come back to bite him and get his friends hurt.A lot of the Smith era is deconstructing and reacting to the idea of him being the greatest hero in the universe, which was very much a thing throughout the Tennant era. It was just less examined as a thing. He quite literally saves the universe in Series 4.
>>221079072See >>221079064 thanks
>>221079072Don't bother, it's some faggot who can't stop sucking RTD and David Trannant cock after all these years even though they literally killed NuWho
>>221079024>mUh TiMe LoRd ViCtOrIoUs!!!111you fucking child.
>>221079093It's no one else's fault that RTD wrote the character pulling off huge feats that were obviously going to get him noticed.It was actually a bit of interesting writing to say "yeah, people are going to notice, and it's going to have consequences".
>>221079100This is the cope you have to tell yourself so you can run away and still claim victory>>221079126Not a well written arc, not given enough time. Still vastly better than Moffat wanking on screen.Absolutely hysterical that you spasticity are going to sit here and call the Smith era some brilliant subversion of godhood when it is literally beat for beat fucking Sherlock in space
Series 5 was the best nu-Who and I'm tired of pretending it wasn't
>>221079158I don’t know which that is thanks
Remember when David Tennant lit the Olympic flame?Remember when David Tennant flew the Titanic over Buckingham Palace, and the Queen said "thank you, Doctor"?
>>221079195Yes, truly comparable to being described as a literal deity across half the universe.
>>221079207Remember when David Tennant fought the actual devil?
>>221079212He fought something claiming itself to be the inspiration for the devil. What it really was we’ll never know
>>221079212I don't remember Tennant having anything bad to say about Rusty?
>>221079229Oh, you!
>>221079158I remember watching each episode online the day they premiered because BBC America was four weeks behind. Shit was hype. The way they did the series arc was unique and interesting. I thought the new cast was great. Even the weak episodes were elevated by the actors.
>>221079212>LATIMER: Because it was waiting. And because I was so scared of the Doctor.>JOAN: Why?>LATIMER: Because I've seen him. He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night and the storm in the heart of the sun.>DOCTOR (JOHN SMITH): Stop it.>LATIMER: He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and he can see the turn of the universe. - The Family of Blood, Series 3, 2007
>>221079277Meant for >>221079207
>>221079207>>221079277>MASTER: What did it feel like, though? Two almighty civilisations burning. Oh, tell me, how did that feel?>DOCTOR: Stop it!>MASTER: You must have been like God.
We will never know who Meep's boss is or who took the Master tooth or where Anita Dobson Rani went
>>221079207Remember when everyone prayed for the Doctor and he transformed from Dobby back to his normal self, and then started floating?
>>221079277>one character is describing him dramatically, this is just like that time a universe-spanning religious order dedicated itself to his downfall!The funniest thing about all this is that Moffat literally wrote him faking his own death because he became too famous, it’s LITERALLY the fucking plot of Sherlock.And just like Sherlock fans, you think the writing is so bad it has to actually be bad on purpose as some genius subversionActually dented in the head
guys is this a bad time
>WILF: What, they go back to being human? They're alive, and human. Then don't you dare, sir. Don't you dare put him before them. Now you take this. That's an order, Doctor. Take the gun. You take the gun and save your life. And please don't die. You're the most wonderful man and I don't want you to die. god damn RTD1 is so much more corny and indulgent than I remember it being
>>221079346Doctor Who did it before Sherlock, you mongoloid.
>>221079212I liked that episode
Over time I've come around to The Wedding of River Song. At first, I thought it felt anticlimactic but I understand what it was going for. The rest of Series 6B is still pretty shit though.As for the other most controversial Moff era finale, I've always been satisfied by Hell Bent.
>>221079378Why would it matter what was first you utter spastic? The point being made is that Moffat isn’t subverting the idea of godhood left to him by RTD, he’s a fucking hack writer who writes the same shit over and over again and he wrote a clever man with a god complex faking his own death after getting too famous TWICE
>>221079128The mental gymnastics here are quite frightening to watchRTD and Moffat both wrote the doctor the same way - as a superpowered godlike beingBut Anon here has decided that he likes Moffat and dislikes RTD, so now he ties himself in knots for hours about how its okay when Moffat does it and Moffat was just making do with the mess RTD created. Like, are you really this deluded man? The two of them literally cooked this shit up together in the same writer's room
>>221078764She was made in a loom.
>>221079450But you laid the fault squarely at Moffat's feet when RTD since day one had all of that "omg lonely god, oncoming storm, fire and ice, time lord victorious, you are so beautiful so wonderful you are bigger than god" bullshit
>>221079491>given demonstrable proof that Moffat wasn’t just working with what RTD left him>”I know, I’ll argue that he’s just working with what RTD left him again!”I’m genuinely worried for your intelligence anon. You might get a free ticket for a lifetime of neetbux if you get your IQ tested
I love watching RTDfags still defending him after all he's done. They try to justify it by treating "RTD1" and "RTD2" like two separate individuals. They're the same man.
>>221079538Not the same writer.
>>221079346>character does a lot of shit that brings attention to him>topples governments. Drives civilisations into ruin>appears all over the history books>ends up with organisations that are specifically created to counter himI mean, yeah. Why is that a bad story idea?If your problem is that the show sucks the Doctor's dick too much, then RTD did that first, and arguably did it in a more obnoxious way. Every character in the RTD era really does think the sun shines out of the Doctor's arse. The Moffat era is more balanced. There's a lot of lampshading of the idea that the Doctor is basically just a crazy old man who is making it up as he goes along, and actually maybe he's fucking things up and getting people hurt.
>>221079538>"2026 Dr Who and 2005 Dr Who are literally the same">"That's retarded, anon. You're a retard.">HAHAHA RTDFAGS SEETHING??? nice bait I guess you got me to reply
>>221079544>double, triple, quadruple downI grow weary.
>>221079544I guess he forgets that Torchwood was literally founded to capture the Doctor one day because he's considered an alien threat lol
>>221079464I like Moffat maybe a little more than RTD. I think they're both hugely flawed. The "Moffat makes the Doctor too important, and too much like a God" stuff just doesn't wash though. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
>>221075972>>221078296
>>221079564Torchwood was bollocks, however.You see Torchwood once as an actual thing, and then it turns into Captain Jack's clubhouse.
>gaaggrrrraauuggauuaaggg i can't stop putting russel's cock in my mouthWe know, anon.
>>221079544again you're being dishonest, the fat fag did play with ideas about the doctor being fallible. first he had him mistreat martha, then he had the whole "you've actually corrupted all your companions" thing in s4, then he had time lord victorious.
>>221079611Series 2 Torchwood was not the worst idea I've ever seenMore interesting than UNIT anyway
>>221079571It’s literally the same plot as Sherlock. You have no answer to this, you can only deflect. Moffat just likes writing men with god complexes as much as he likes writing milfy women who can outwit them, simple as
>>221079626Okay, but ultimately sanity wins the day, and everyone comes away thinking the Doctor is great actually. Whereas with Amy and Clara, he really does kind of ruin their lives. Amy loses her daughter and gets trapped in the 30's, and Clara dies(and gets turned into an immortal ghost or something. That part was shit).
>>221075972Dalek remains about the only episode I think I could recommend to a scifi fan who has never seen Who and expect them to love it
>>221079647I don't think Sherlock was a bad show. At least until the later episodes. And I haven't denied that Moffat relies way too hard on his pet tropes. He does, and it's annoying.
>>221079667That’s one of the other archetypes Moffat loves writing, the most important young woman in the universe tragically in love with the god complex man
>2026>RTD has literally killed NuWho>STILL defend him>STILL justify his shit writing>STILL blame other writers for HIS shitty writing
>>221079690Bill wasn't in love with him. Amy is in love with herself, ultimately. Clara was, but it gets weird.
>>221079702>old writer gets dragged back in after over 10 fucking years of bad writing and diminishing views>he has a completely different writing style >”he is solely responsible for the show ending and also always bad actually”
>>221079710why are you trying to revise history amy is in love with him. there's like 50 episodes devoted to this fact. i am slogging through them right now on my rewatch. please don't pretend it didn't happen.
>>221079710Holy fuck are you seriously going to argue Amy wasn’t in love with 11?
>pretending RTD's writing in 2005-2010 was the pinnacle of qualitylmao
>>221079710If you took all the companions and counted the number of times they made a sexual advance on the doctor, Amy probably has more than the rest combined
>>221079748Weak bait
>>221079748>>221079702>>221079612>>221079538Who are you talking to?
>>221079733>>221079740Amy is a slag. She doesn't love the Doctor. It's different.
>>221079786Kek the cope
>>”he is solely responsible for the show ending and also always bad actually”yeah
>>221079786Yes yes Rory, I'm sure she was thinking of you while taking the big timelord cock.
>>221079779>>221079792>posts some top tier cringe-kino and expects me to be madDon’t think so
>>221079791The show iterates over and over that Rory is the one she actually wants. Did you watch it?
Amy & Rory was a redpill nuke for the youth
>to most people, this is where Doctor Who peaked>to people with actual taste, this is where it fell off a cliff
REGENERATE>>221079919>>221079919>>221079919
