Why do they only ever adapt the sequel?
>>222345485Plot spoiler? What happens in the Illiad that makes it worth reading?
>>222345485REEEEEETAAAAAAAAARDDDDDD!
>>222345485because it doesn't have a coherent storyThe Iliad's plot has similar logic to a 5-year-old mashing his toys at each other
>>222345485Because the premise of "Guy who just fought in some war has to go on a grand adventure to go back home" is easier to introduce to people than all the bullshit that lead to the Trojan war in the first place.
>>222345681>t. ADHD retard
>>222345485The Odyssey is simply more suited to adaptations, with a story that modern audiences can relate to.
>>222345485So much untapped kino
>>222345528The Iliad is about the rage of Achilles.It’s year 9 of the war and morale in the Greek camp is low.Achilles despises Agamemnon and refuses to fight someone else’s war.Without mighty Achilles, the Greeks get beaten.Achilles’ young cousin Patroclus can’t stand to see the Greeks being beaten so he dons Achilles armor and joins the battle.He does well for a while but is eventually killed by Hector.Achilles swears revenge, kills Hector in battle, and defiles the corpse by dragging it around the city walls behind his chariot.King Priam goes to Achilles and begs for Hector’s body to be returned so he can be buried.They both realize they’ve suffered losses. Achilles lets Priam have his son’s body and calls a 12-day truce.That’s the whole thing.
>>222345903Also there's a funny scene where Achille's horse randomly starts talking to him and tells him to go die
>>222345903Oh so its just the movie Troy?
>>222345969The illiad doesn't include Achille's death and the trojan horse
>>222345969It’s the middle part of the movie Troy. The Iliad doesn’t go into how the war started or how it ends. The Iliad and the Odyssey are just two books in a seven book epic cycle. Those two are the only ones that survived whole but we know the plot of the others.Even the Trojan Horse is only briefly mentioned in the Odyssey.
>>222346061>seven book epic cycleYou're forgetting the Telegony anon
>>222345681>because it doesn't have a coherent storyYou don't actually know what the Iliad is do you? The Iliad is the story of the Wrath of Achilles. It covers like three days of the ten year long war. Its an episode in the trojan war. The story is about Achilles getting mad at Agamemnon, sulking in his tent, which turns the war into a stalemate, and everyone begs him to come back to the fight. Patroclus puts on the armor, gets killed by hector, and Achilles freaks out, an then 1v1's hector after chasing him around the city three times. Achilles kills hector, then defiles and drags his body around the city three times before taking the corpse back. Priam sneaks out at night, begs achilles to give him his son's body so they can observe the proper funeral rights, and Achilles agrees. End of story. The war doesn't end, Achilles doesn't get shot by paris in the heel, no wooden horses show up.
>>222345903Alongside this is Achilles’ pride and lust for making his name immortal through his deeds in battle.That part is closed in the Odyssey when Odysseus meets Achilles’ spirit in the underworld and Achilles is like>I fucked it all up. Glory isn’t worth anything. If I had to do it all over again I’d have rather been a humble farmer.
>>222345556spbp
>>222346113Did you just feed this guy’s post >>222345903 into ChatGPT?
>>222346165No anon. Two different people on this board have a highschool education.
>>222346102The one I always forget is the Nostoi.
>>222346136>>I fucked it all up. Glory isn’t worth anything. If I had to do it all over again I’d have rather been a humble farmer.No, he says "dying sucks, damn I wish I wasn't dead"
>>222346102>Ends with Telegonus killing Odysseus, then he and Telemachus marry the other's motherSo hot
>>222345485I think to a modern person, Achilles’ behavior is incomprehensible. He gets butthurt because his king takes his slave woman who he claims to be in love with. Then while his men are getting slaughtered because he’s not out there, his best friend puts on his armor to help out and dies. He’s so pissed that he goes ape shit and kills everyone. Hector is a more sympathetic and modern character than people can get better today, I even recall writers in the 1800s saying as much. So any adaptation of Iliad has to essentially butcher it.
/tv/ would call it woke because achilles takes pity on priam, instead of decapitating him with double swords and sending the head flying with cgi starz style blood gfx effects
>>222345934Based horse.
>>222346308quite a few of the myth variants surrounding the Odyssey are>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penelope>Pausanias records the story that Penelope had in fact been unfaithful to Odysseus, who banished her to Mantineia upon his return. In the 5th century AD Nonnus names Pan's mother as Penelope of Mantineia in Arcadia. Other sources report that Penelope had slept with all 108 suitors in Odysseus's absence, and gave birth to Pan as a result. This myth reflects the folk etymology that equates Pan's name (Πάν) with the Greek word for "all" (πᾶν).[b] The Odyssey carefully suppresses this variant tradition.[
>>222346196You can always tell who has actually read it because most people have no idea the trojan horse and fall of troy doesn't happen. menalaeas describes it to telemachus in odyssey but it didn't really get fleshed out for several hundred years.
>>222346282Maybe he says both.
>>222346424>Other sources report that Penelope had slept with all 108 suitors in Odysseus's absence, and gave birth to Pan as a result. This myth reflects the folk etymology that equates Pan's name (Πάν) with the Greek word for "all" (πᾶν)>108! MY WIFE FUCKED 108 GUYS!>In a row?
>>222346424Anon,
>>222346460No, he says he'd rather be a living slave to a landless peasant than be a dead skellington in Hades. Nothing about him regretting his life of glory, only regretting that he had to die.>“O shining Odysseus, never try to console me for dying.>I would rather follow the plow as thrall to another>man, one with no land allotted him and not much to live on,>than be a king over all the perished dead.
>>222345681Tells a little story about Achileus.
>>222345485I honestly think it's because people like the word "odyssey" more than "Iliad."
>>222345528I haven't read either and I'm glad about that. We were about to read the Odyssey in my literature class in high school but then we decided to read something else and I was relieved.
>>222346424>Penelope had slept with all 108 suitors in Odysseus's absenceYABBA DABBA DOOOOOOOOO
>>222346424This could make for a really great porn game, Penelope has to placate all 108 suitors either through words or blowing them. You have to work consistently on the shroud and failure to do so will result in the suitors being by your side and groping you while you're forced to work on it. Bad endings consist of scenes of her getting creampied while on the olive tree bed that Odysseus built, and all 108 suitors have their different variant ending. The more you resist the suitors, the more Athena approves and helps you, the more you give in, the more Aphrodite approves and gives you higher sexual prowess and skill
>>222345903>yeah so, and I'm just gonna completely ignore all those deities toying with other characters for fun throughout the book
>>222346709Yeah, real Krillin moment.
>>222345556kek
>>222346920It’s a summary, anon. If you want the whole story, just read the whole book.
>>222345681were the ancients retarded? All their shit reads like that.
>>222346976You could've at least mentioned it, as it's kind of an important part of the story.
>>222346362>his best friend
>>222346785Well, you have thishttps://messymoonmad.itch.io/hearts-before-the-arrow
>>222347044You don't give bro jobs to people who aren't your bro's, now do you?
>>222346990Ancient stories like this spent hundreds of years being repeated orally before they were ever written down, so that has a lot to do with it.
>>222346362> I think to a modern person, Achilles’ behavior is incomprehensible.It becomes incomprehensible when you think of war in the modern country-vs-country sense.Modern readers imagine that Achilles puts his personal pride over patriotism.Those considerations didn’t exist back then in the same way.He was convinced to fight because there would be glory (kleos) to be gained. Once dealing with Agamemnon’s drama became too much, it stopped being worth it.
>>222346136The fact that they didn't include this conversation in Nolan's Odyssey is the worst departure from the original telling, IMO. The conversation is so important because it adds a very meaningful nuance to the character of Achilles, but also because it gives incredible meaning to Odysseus's choice to leave Calypso. While he's on the island with Calypso, he's immortal and can't die, but even with Achilles's warning about death in mind, he still desires to give up his immortality to return to Penelope, knowing full well he'll end up joining Achilles one day. Skipping over that major plot point just so that "Cinnon" could guilt trip Odysseus about his role in the Trojan war is a subpar substitution.
>>222347201>Gives up immortality>Gets killed by his bastard son>his son and wife end up becoming immortallol
>>222347201I agree. It was an omission that really would have driven home how fucked the whole war was.>the mightiest king got shanked in his bathtub >the strongest warrior couldn’t enjoy his glory.>go home to your family, man. You can’t forgive yourself by yourself.
>>222345485Illiad is the sequel to the Odyssey. Or rather, Odyssey is a prequel to the Illiad.
>>222347201Zeus sent Hermes to tell Circe she had to get odysseus back on the road.
>>222347307You have it backwards.
>>222347322No, Athena noticed Odysseus was trapped on Calypso's island and told Zeus to let him go and he sent Hermes to force Calypso's hand.On Circe's island however, Odysseus willingly stayed their for a whole year before one of his crew members said "Hey, uh, shouldn't we bounce?"
>>222347307No it isn’t. They are two surviving pieces of an extremely long epic. Imagine if, a thousand years from now, only Attack of the Clones and The Force Awakens survived in their entirety and all we knew of the other movies were plot synopses.
>>222347377In Odysseus’ defense, book Circe is supposed to be radiant and beautiful, being a daughter of Helios.
>>222347307The Aethiopis is the sequel to the Little Iliad. Or rather, the Little Iliad is a prequel to the Aethiopis. The Cypria is the true prequel to the Iliad, which means the Iliad is just a midquel to the Aethiopis, making the Iliou Persis a late sequel to the Nostoi except the Nostoi is obviously the prequel to the Odyssey, so the Telegony must be the definitive sequel to the Cypria, which would of course make the Little Iliad a soft reboot of the entire cycle that only makes sense if you treat the Aethiopis as a prologue to the Iliou Persis.
>>222347414Really glad Nolan omitted that entire aspect of Circe
>>222347307>Book 1: CypriaThe events leading up to the war and the first nine years of the conflict >Book 2: IliadThe rage of Achilles and the death of Hector>Book 3: AethiopisThe death of Achilles >Book 4: Little IliadBuilding the Trojan Horse >Book 5: Iliupersis The Sack of Troy>Book 6: NostoiThe Greeks’ voyage home >Book 7: OdysseyOdysseus’ voyage home >Book 8: TelegonyThe death of Odysseus
>>222347414>radiant and beautiful>conniving psycho bitchHyperrealism much?
>>222347622I thought the Circe scene was really well done. Probably one of the only scenes that I didn’t really have a problem with. (Yes, even though it wasn’t 100% accurate to the text)
>>222347662Achilles dies before the horse?
>>222347736Yeah, he didn't die during the sack of Troy, it was some other skirmish post-illiad and Paris cheap shots him
>>222346113>Achilles doesn't get shot by paris in the heelWhen... Where does that part factor in? I knew the horse was actually referenced in odessey
>>222347800It's depicted in a lost work that was composed after the Illiad. We only know about it because various other sources referenced it.
>>222347800In the Aethiopis, Achilles charges at the gates of the city, Paris looses an arrow and Apollo magically guides it into a kill shot.
>>222345903um isnt this the plot from troy?
>>222345556LMAO
>>222347854>>222347842Damn it's so frustrating how much of these stories we lost. I'm sure there are all sorts of crazy stories about Hercules and Theseus that we never got to read. Considering that then... Since the Hector vs Achilles duel is the essential focal point of TROY I would argue it does a good job at telling the story of the wrath of Achilles. Otoole even nails the part where he asks Achilles for the body back.
>>222347924I’m glad you picked up on that. Most viewers didn’t which is why the movie flopped.
>>222347994It also doesn't help that you had this one french guy going around Sparta smashing up all their templeshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Fourmont
>>222347994There’s a good reason why it’s the most impactful scene in the movie.
>>222345903>Achilles despises Agamemnon and refuses to fight someone else’s war.That had nothing to do with it. Agamemnon took the female captive Achilles had taken for his sex slave because Agamemnon had to give the one he took back.
>>222348181>The gay icon threw a fit over someone threatening to take his female sex slave and was willing to let the Aegean army lose because of it
>>222345903Which one's Hector, is that the Hulk?
>>222346362No? His behaviour is based and only modern goyslaves think it's normal to be a zogbot for a society that hates you. Like you are unbelievably cucked if you don't side with Achilles in that scenario. He had zero beef with the Trojans, why should he continue to carry the war effort for the sake of Menelaus's honour. Note how the moment he stopped putting in effort to the war, the greeks started losing.>Then while his menThey weren't his men. The myrmidons were abstaining with him.
>>222345841>minoan woman's traditional garb>t. disney
>>222348216Eric Bana, yeah.
>>222348263Modern audiences aren't ready for it
>>222345556RECTUUUM
>>222348181That was why Achilles despised Agamemnon: it was an insult to his honor.
>>222348244Modern slave morality has gotten so bad that the weak genuinely feel entitled to the labour of the strong, that's why people dislike Achilles. It doesn't help with the superhero psyop where ubermensch like Superman are literal slaves expected to serve the every whim of the public. Like if this dude is the only reason you're winning battles, maybe you should show him some respect, or at the very least don't disrespect him.
>>222346785get the guy from behind the dune to work on this ASAPalso just add some goddesses and temple virgins acting like whores as well
>>222346670You're dumb as bricks and yet you still want attention, hers a (you)
>>222345485You can watch Helen of Troy on youtube:https://youtu.be/FBSLzOLgOHI
>>222348214>Le gay iconAchilles fucked, simple as. Stop bisex erasure.
>>222345556I remember Troy 2004 sucking ass, is it too much for a Homeric epic that isn't hollywood trash
>>222345485Because it's boring as fuck nigga. I'm black and I have read it. Stop hyping such an ass of a sort. >Hurrrr, I won't fight dur simp war no moor>Wuhh muh buduh dud!>Huuuuurrrrr, Huuurrrr I'm gunna keel u Huurrrr
>>222348612>sucking assIt certainly isn't perfect, or faithful, but its still a good movie. One of the best fight scenes in modern film with Hector and AchillesBrian Cox being an evil ham as Agamemnon is great. Peter O'Toole's priam in Achilles' tent is a testament to that old drunk queen's acting chops. And I am always happy to see Eric Bana get a paycheck.
>>222348612>is it too much for a Homeric epic that isn't hollywood trashActually, yes. If the studio puts their foot down, none of the good directors will do it because they want creative control. So they give it to a hack director who does what the studio says and puts together something that is late-stage MCU capeshit quality, at best.
>>222348431Don't forget an historically accurate Minoan dress as an alternative outfit
>>222348736Diane Kruger as Helen was great right up until she opened her mouth.>why does only one character in this movie have a thick German accent?
>>222348657>I'm black and I have readNice try.
>>222348799Because she's a dumb bimbo model and she couldn't learn to do RP.
>>222348657>"In the Trojan war cycle myths, it is said that Achilles called Memnon a nigger before slitting his throat"Oh I see why you have such a negative disposition towards Achilles
>>222348546The title is misleading.
>>222348799I honestly don't remember her having any lines.
>>222348289they'd make her a quippy marvel sidekick and have her explain that the labyrinth is actually about generational trauma pass
>>222345681>The Iliad's plot has similar logic to a 5-year-old mashing his toys at each otherAnd that's why it's a classic
>>222349530She had a few with Paris about how much she loves him and how much Menelaos sucked as a husband.
>>222346362Roman propaganda I'm not falling for.
>>222345681That's because it's only one part of an 8 part series of epic poems, most of which are lost.
>>222346785Coming soon in Broadway
Why didn't Zendaya look like this?
>>222348081>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Fourmontfucking french shits
>>222346362Because we live in a matriarchy and many people see Helen of Troy as the hero.
>>222349634>"Hey dumbass, any of you intellectuals back at Athens ever heard of string?">"My parents had... marital problems thanks to some bull...and it wasn't a black bull this time, shocker right?"
>>222348736This is why Troy still mogs half these new “mythology” adaptations. Even when it was dumb Hollywood trash it at least understood that bronze age kings and demigods should look cool on screen.Modern costume departments see Athena and go>tan bedsheet>no helmet>no spear>no owl>as little color as possible>call it groundedJust let the gods look like fucking gods.
>>222348612it does suck ass but because you like the story of Achilles et al you watch it a few times more and then it becomes okay
>>222345485Wasn't there an Iliad musical? >>222345556Hell yeah.
>>222345485making the iliad would be like making game of thrones but starting the story in the middle of season 7 and ending it episode 2 of season 8.the reason it's like this is because it's just a piece of the epic cycle that covers at least 3 generations and 1000s of characters.
>>222346424It's worth keeping in mind that when you're dealing with oral tradition stuff, any storyteller randomly inserting his fetish across the centuries will become a variant of the myth. So you have versions of the story where Odysseus railed every chick he ran into on his way home and versions of the story where his wife was in daily gangbangs for 20 years, all because some crusty old storyteller wanted the story to be hornier at some point.It's like if 1000 years from now, historians couldn't tell fragments of actual books from fanfic porn parodies, so they shrug and call them variations.
>>222353208Well either way, there's alot of greek mythology plays and tales that were lost to time because they weren't documented but someone thought that Penelope's sexual escapades were worth noting. So either the Penelope being a whore myth variants were widespread enough across greek city-state(s) or whoever wrote the source decided to add in their own version of the myth but then again, how we do know Homer didn't add in a bunch of his own shit on to the existing oral traditions of the Odyssey? It's heavily theorized that he did but it's still treated as a primary source of greek mythology "canon" (or something close enough to it)
>>222347662Stretching out the construction of the Horse and the sacking of Troy into two separate books seems extravagant.
>>222353443Anyone's version of the story is going to be a distillation of the oral traditions guided by personal principles. What elements get lost and preserved is subject to both the arbitrary whims of the person writing it down and the whims of time. Versions of the story that stray from Homer's telling don't necessarily reflect something widely popular, just something that someone bothered to write down or depict which survived through the ages by luck of the draw.It's almost depressing how much of our historical knowledge is dependent on luck.
>>222347379It's worth pointing out that the Iliad and the Odyssey were the ones credited to Homer while the other books in the cycle were credited to other authors. And the ancient sources pretty unanimously consider Homer the best of the bunch. So it's not like we've been missing the best parts of the story this whole time.
>>222352522>it at least understood that bronze age kings and demigods should look cool on screen.Batamemnon looked cool as shit in the Odyssey.
>>222353460A lot of shit happens once they get into those walls.
>>222347842I've explained it to someone like, "Imagine if the only Star Wars movies you could still watch were Attack of the Clones and Return of the Jedi, but we knew what happened in the other ones because the Family Guy parodies still exist."
Its crazy how there were 8 poems but it was only the Illiad and the Odyssey that were huge epics. Every other poem combined were smaller.
>>222352688There's a ton of illiad musicals, there's even a new tiktok musical coming uphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTR9nz_AZnAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqy1okNJvzchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E325TRQ7ETchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E325TRQ7ETc
>>222347736Iirc>Helen is betrothed to Greek Prince>Paris of Troy woos her, causing war>Which is why Achilles don't give a shit>Until his friend dies wearing his armor>So he kills Paris' older brother Hector>And is then killed by Paris' arrow>Odysseus pleads to gods for wars end>Which begets the idea of Trojan horse It all happened because of trifling hoes.
>>222348081>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Fourmontwas he jewish?
>>222345556.
>>222355873>because of trifling hoesthe oath of Tyndareus was Odysseus's idea and Agamemnon uses it as a ploy to get the greeks to go conquer Troy, which makes the horse all that more interestinglook it up, the ancients had just as much sense of nuance in their stories as anyone
>>222345485Blaming everything on a disloyal slut is problematic these days.
>>222354379It was out of place that there was one guy with "cool" armor and everyone else in the movie looked like shit.
>>222347069>tumblr art style
>>222353460Not all books are that long. Illiad and Oddysey were among the longest ones and thats why they were preserved.
I summon Mr. Zack Snyder.
>>222345485because oral tradition doesnt work in any format other than in-person rhetoricits not about the story, its about how you tell itsame reason why adaptations of musicals always suck assWicked is a good example
>>222348244You got some post in your buzzword soup there, faggot
