Was it bad like people say?
>>222504422Really everything wrong with it stems from Venom's forced inclusion and Raimi not understanding the character. If you take out everything related to the symbiote and Eddie Brock, and fill in that time with more Peter vs. Harry (cut the amnesia shit, just have them at each other's throats the whole movie until they have to team up) and it becomes just as kino as 2.
>>222504422Worse than the other two but still alright. Raimi was fantastic at making these movies. Overhated.>>222504558>Raimi not understanding the character.There isn't really a whole lot to get. Venom's comic origin is really bad, people have actually just been ripping off the 1994 cartoon's story all this time. ALL this time, if Symbiote Peter is acting badly then it's just the 1994 story. Raimi took that and sprinkled in some more comic stuff like Eddie going to church, and also putting his own spin on it with Eddie being more of a foil to Peter. People didn't like Raimi Venom but I wouldn't call him unfaithful.
>>222504422Its exactly like TDKR. A lot of meme material, not as good as the previous two, but definitely overhated
I just found out that people consider the Holland movies as eclipsing the Maguire movies. Raimi kept the character grounded and explored real life issues which made him more relatable. Holland's Peter is only empathetic in the abstract because of the convoluted nature of his story from Tony stark being a mentor to the memory wipe. Spiderman 3 is hit and miss but at least continues to explore those character relations. Too much forced soap opera elements muddled it though. The action scenes are still really well choreographed which still isnt topped even in new day.
>>222505250>people
>>222505274Someone was arguing that people only like those movies because of nostalgia. I've also seen clips from podcasts where they are rated low which baffled me.
>>222504422Literally the only "bad" part of this movie is the rushed final fight. If they had an extra 5 minutes of run time even I think they coulda made it work better. Raimi, imo, does a good job juggling all the plots going on with the other villains in the movie. People went from being super critical of movies like Spiderman 3 to slurping up marvel shit, so I find their criticisms of Tobeyman 3 to be insincere
>>222504422In my opinion, it’s a completely decent movie. It’s certainly not the best of the original trilogy, nor is it the greatest superhero movie of all time, but it’s far from being the horrible mess people still remember it as. To a certain extent, all the characters are memorable, the dialoge remains good, and the action scenes are also cool. The script itself isn't bad; what weighs it down is that everything is way too rushed, and some narrative resolutions are weak, to say the least. For instance, Harry’s butler goes up to him and conveniently reveals (at just the right moment) that his father was killed by his own weapon and not by Spider-Man, not to mention the forced scene of Harry's death to save Peter.People used to blame Venom as the movie's biggest flaw, and he is indeed very rushed and underdeveloped in the story. However, I’d argue that the film's greatest issues are all related to Harry, who was ultimately shortchanged by not being the sole villain, having to share screen time with two other antagonists.Overall, the excessive number of villains hurts the movie significantly. But if there’s one thing I can praise, not just about this one, but all three of Raimi's films, it’s that none of them are boring or a drag to watch. The pacing is great, and you never get bored, even though you might often question the choices made in the script. That’s something I can’t say, for example, about Andrew Garfield’s movies or almost any of Tom Holland’s, except for his most recent two.
>>222504422A New Hope = Spider-manEmpire Strikes Back = Spider-man 2Return of the Jedi = Spider-man 3
I walked out of it extremely depressed because I expected it to complete and round out another classic quality trilogy for the ages like Star Wars or lord of the rings, and instead we got, whatever it is we got. And I felt that retroactively diminished my enjoyment of the first two.
>>222506194I do remember a similar reaction. I loved the action such as the Peter and Harry fight but being baffled by the story choices. I didn't ruin the first two but it was definitely a whimper in comparison to what we got in 2. I really disliked that we never got closure with Mary Jane and relationship never really came together. I still remember that look at the end of 2.
>>222504558Sandman being the REAL killer of uncle ben was pretty bad. Harry not being conflicted about his dad murders and just trying to kill Peter right away was pretty bad. Gwen and Captain Stacy are kind of unneeded characters. Any kind of ups and downs with MJ. Honestly, Venom is barely in the movie and can't be blamed for the issues.>>222504907Raimi's Venom was a unfaithful. Comic Brock is more of an ego driven asshole, and not a mirror to Peter. That said, I don't think Raimis take on it is that off mark or off putting. He does resemble a version of Venom. It's a spin on the concept of an evil spider-man, I can see people not liking it, but it has merit. It's the fact they had to tack him on at the end that makes him unsatisfying. The more satisfying move would have been to resolve the Harry/Sandman story and save Venom for a 4th film. Lean into the concepts in the film more. Have Brock see Spider-man "kill" Sandman. This raises the tension. Really give Brock reasons to hate and distrust Peter/Spider-man. You don't need the Uncle Ben plot when you have the symbiote, let that be the reason Peter goes too far with trying to kill. It's all there, they just didn't do it. Alvin Sergent was the writer and Raimi is not one, he trusted Sergent. Sony and Raimi were down to film 3 and 4 back to back. Sergent said he couldn't figure out the story break to do that. Originally, most of the movie was the same with Vulture in place of Venom. Yes, Vulture in part 3. He'd have fought harry in the final battle. Avi Arad pushed for Venom and Sergent made a pitch and Raimi went with it. A lot of these issues would have still existed in the Sandman/Vulture version.
it lost me in the first five minutes with them trying to speedrun “u kill mah faddah” with franco hitting his head and getting amnesia.
>>222506390I don't know how to have MJ engaged to JJJ's son at the end of 2 and not even touch it in 3. Like, she was wearing a wedding dress and left him at the alter. Legit was bad story choices every which way.
>>222504422as with a lot of movies from this time, they were worse then their predecessors so they were considered bad at the time, but if they came out today they would make billions of dollars and be considered masterpieces compared to the current set of superhero films.
