>>683625997
git gud

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You can just lock off.
You can just block.
This is a skill issue.

>>683626282
>Bro just stop locking on
>Just manage this core feature that actively sabotages you if you don't
That's my literal point

>>683626406
You have the ability to turn it on and off whenever you want with the push of a button, so there's no issue.

>>683626578
The issue is being given a set of controls that actively works against you instead of something that feels snappy and responsive. Yes, you *can* overcome being gimped but being gimped still feels like dogshit.

>>683626668
They work against you sometimes and are extremely beneficial other times. The same is true of being locked off. That's why you can freely switch as needed even midfight. Again, no issue.

>>683626805
There are zero benefits to sprint and roll sharing a button. They only thing that causes is misreads and inconsistency.

>>683625997
>roll working on release instead of press
This was the most maddening thing for me to get used to in this game. Whenever I'd think I timed my roll perfectly I'd still end up getting snagged like 80% of the time, and for a while I thought it was something wrong with my controller and it was infuriating. Then I realized it was just input lag by design, so I really had to start timing my rolls just slightly before when I actually wanted to. Works better now but still super gay to deal with.

>>683626878
If that's causing you anguish it means your IQ is less than 100. I like how the controls for running and rolling are handled. You're just bad and creating a pseudo intellectual, "hurr I'm aware of game design" response.

>>683627104
Timing your rolls like that is great until the game decides to randomly drop your inputs and you die because of it.
Even though it worked perfectly fucking fine in Sekiro and Lies of P.

>>683627725
It's probably the input buffering system

Its weird how so many people don't notice the reason why most Fromsoft games are difficult is due to lack of good control. From swinging weapons like a sloth to little stamina.

>>683627725
who the fuck rolled in sekiro?

Sure, controls are bad.
How do you fix them?
Shoulder buttons are taken up for left/right normal/strong attacks.
I don't think it's feasible to put any non-menu action on select/start buttons, or anything else that might be there if it's some custom fancy controller.
Dpad scrolls through items, spells and weapons. Not that you can somehow move with stick and hold dpad button, unless you maybe switch which stick is for movement.
Stick buttons are aids to press and hold while actually using sticks.
Of face buttons, one is used for items (estus, lube, whatever), other is for rolls.
What remains is "interact" and "jump". Interact is required even if we cut out all talking and other stuff out of game simply because you need a button to 2hand with (unless you want to make 2handing be accessible from menu only). We maybe could cut jumping ability, but then you'd have to either remove jump attacks (all shitters' rage melts earth down and we all die), or to put them back on those awkward combos like "tap forward + attack".

>>683627974
>*compulsively uses gigantic 6-ft long greatsword*
>AUUUUUUUGGGGHHHHHH WHY DOES IT SWING SO SLOW AND HAVE SUCH A LONG RECOVERY
^me btw (but also still frustrating when so many bosses in ER are not only fast af but can poise their way through your attacks, so unless you catch them in a rare recovery animation you're basically guaranteed to be trading damage)

>>683628141
>"tap forward + attack".
DMC and tons of action games that follow it proves there's nothing wrong with this input method if you're competent.

>>683627104
There's a mod to fix that but then you can't dash as soon as possible.

>>683625997
No the "issue" is just waterfowl
>Waterfowl is stupid but it can be overcome
Yes but most of the waterfowl avoidance techniques are retarded.
>frost pots
Only works once, if you're doing RL1 or something and need a lot of attempts, having to gather materials is annoying.
>circle running strat
Fun and easy to learn but is not consistent
>bloodhounds step
Was braindead easy on earlier patches but is just a worse version of the circle strat post-nerf
It's not even worth it to bother learning how to "properly" avoid, just tank the first two flurries, roll the rest, and chug after or just shield and let her heal. It'll get you through the fight but it's not fun or interesting at all which leaves victory feeling more hollow than exciting.

>>683625997
skill issue

>>683628141
Its sprinting. Just make it so you start sprinting if you hold the button after a roll. It takes a full second to kick in as it is now so you'd barely notice a difference in travel speed and the roll would feel 1000% better which is obviously the priority.

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>Still buckbroken by Malenia
LMAO

>>683628542
Yes there is, you actually have to move in Souls games, you don't cover the arena with a stinger, which is why the input choice for kicks was constantly pressed with this system

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>>683629992

>>683626282
>Block
It's funny as fuck how many people actually forgot this was a thing you could do until the dlc dropped.

>>683628141
no
>>683629992
>>frost pots
>Only works once
retard
>>683630138
no lol that's awful

>>683630863
Oh yeah thanks for bringing this one up I forgot about it, this one is also retarded
When you jump you have I-frames on the lower half of your hitbox but not your chest + arms + head. This dodge is completely dependant on how low the character's arms hang when they hold the weapon at rest because if the weapon is held too low (like 2 handing a straight sword) the arms will hang lower than the rest of the enabled hitbox and clip into the waterfowl damage sphere.

>>683630863
>bloodhound's fang
ydbtg

>>683631489
That makes it harder, not impossible. You can still dodge with straight swords and katanas, just need much more precise timing

>>683630574
>>683630863
The more I see of this fight the shitter it looks. Every boss is some anime extra bullshit meanwhile your still stuck doing R1 spam.

>>683630938
blame Bloodborne's joke shields

>>683625997
The "problem" if you want to call it that, is that they keep upping the blender factor on bosses while fundamentally using the same combat system on the player side from the DeS and DaS1 days. Those games were a lot slower, the combat was designed around observing carefully and finding openings when the enemy is committed to an attack, while also leaving yourself open when you commit to an attack and still having a chance to react when you see something coming. This worked fine in ye olden days when they actually came up with this combat system, but since then they have become deathly frightened of their video games not being hard enough (DeS and DaS1 weren't actually that hard, despite the memes) and their solution to that seems to be to give every boss whirlwind blender combos with delayed attacks and roll-catch patterns while the player effectively has the same toolset as those much older games.

This "works" but the blender school of design basically just pushes you into a corner where you must learn unintuitive and often unreadable attack patterns by heart and chain-dodge with correct timing in the correct directions while abusing the dodge i-frames, or into the alternative of "RPG-ing" your way into a tank build by specing into big shields or stacking buffs / consumables (nothing wrong with this, the game IS an RPG). It works, but it's feeling a bit ill-fitting at this point, you can tell that this wasn't what the core of the combat system was made for. It was made for a slow, oppressive dungeon crawler, not for bosses which are capable of acting at 5x the speed of the player.

>>683631874
R1 spam doesn't work unless you're using magic or a light weapon. STR chads are lucky to get one swing in before having to back off and wait for another opening

>>683627974
Slow weapons are not a fucking control issue
>>683630138
>make it so you have to roll every you want to sprint
That sounds truly awful, did you even think this through? How would you do a sprint jump?

>>683631294
>frost pots
>Only works once
Bosses gain increased status resistance every time they are inflicted.
I was mistaken it's twice not once before a pot isn't enough buildup but even in a quick fight using waterfowl three times isn't uncommon.
Also having to pull a frost dagger out of my ass to reset it is retarded and annoying.

>>683631641
I beat it in several ways actually
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL5KELx8R-E

But what's important is to have fun, and understand why you having fun.

>>683632375
>frost dagger
Fire dagger I meant

How are people still bitching about Malenia? She can be staggered of 90% of her moveset. Don't know how to dodge the dance point blank? Block the first part and dodge the rest or throw a freezing pot. No really what's left to complain about her?

>>683631874
>The more I talk about a game I haven't played nor ever will the more I think it's shitty

Really incredible stuff.

>>683632120
skill issue

>>683633135
skill issue, but for From's game designers

>>683632120
>(DeS and DaS1 weren't actually that hard, despite the memes)
those games had a different style of difficulty. they were about the levels just as much as they were about the bosses. elden ring has some cool levels (legacy dungeons obviously, and a number of "hidden gems" like rune strewn precipice) but the sheer number of graces combined with shortcuts is just absurd and effectively makes every feel like a "boss fog waiting room" instead of something you have to beat to find the boss. 100% in agreement with you about the anime-tier trash that basically forces rollspam as the playstyle of choice, but the issue with souls games lies more in the trend away from the focus on levels vs. bosses. sekiro is my favorite fromsoft game but thats bc they just embraced the fact that it was all about the bosses (and by extension made it fun & fast to fly from boss to boss). bloodborne was the only 'real' souls-ish entry that balanced it perfectly. DaS2 started the bonfires every 5 ft trend, DaS3 made it worse, and elden ring is just a joke

>>683625997
Sorry, but no. The root of the problem, is that learning to dodge waterfowl is a complete guessing game. you just have to roll and pray. Doesn't work? Roll another way and pray. Still doesn't work? Roll another way and pray. It's entirely poorly designed trial and error. You can fine tune the controls and camera exactly how you want, and you would still need to trial and error her attacks.

>But here's a webm of me dodging with no issue, after I spent 100 attempts learning the frame data
Get that shit outta my face.

>>683633606
Or just block it.

>>683626282
She ate 85% of your stamina bar. This isn't viable for most builds.

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>>683630938
wait so malenia is only hard for 2 handed weapon users? no wonder i was struggling so long

t. staff and sword user

>>683633724
The more you block, the more health she recovers. Even blocking a partial amount of waterfowls sets you back, look at her health bar in the webm: >>683626282
If you're actually stable enough to block the entirety of the attack, she'll recover even more. Undoing your progress. The fight could go on for an hour.
God forbid she RNGs two waterfowls back to back. She could get her entire lifebar back.

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She filtered billions of retards lol

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>>683633606
skill issus

>>683625997
>great stars with endure
>opaline hardtear
>boiled crab
>dragoncrest greatshield talisman
>bull GOATed set
dead on my screen

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>>683625997
>Make it so any player with any given level of possible character power and skill will still have to try 200 times
>"I now have bragging rights!"
From just went way overboard. I have 800 hours in DS2 alone and I can pretty much first-try any boss in the game with zero grinding.
Elden Ring, though, you just can't do that. The RNG and bosses' movesets are forever keeping you from that, there's no "getting gud", only luck and an abysmal need to grind

>>683633291
>those games had a different style of difficulty.
Well it's certainly correct that they do have a different style, where the level matters a lot more than it does in ER, but overall I'd still say the game difficulty is several notches below ER. Both of them can be very punishing if you're not careful and patient with how you play, but on the other hand if you ARE careful and approach the levels methodically and attentively they're really not that hard. I mean you'll die here and there but the difficulty is moderate at best, maybe with a few "asshole" sections every now and then but they're really not that bad. Plus unlike some blender combo thrown in your face while the camera has a seizure or the boss goes off-screen since it's too huge, learning there's a trap or something in one section of the level makes it way easier the very next try, it's much easier to progress than a hard barrier like a boss.

>>683635706
>I have 800 hours in DS2
that explains the brain damage

>>683634158
She's already squishy, the amount of health she gets really isn't that much in the long run.
Nobody should try to block every attack Malenia does either, you have to find the balance between blocking and rolling and figuring out which attacks are worth blocking vs rolling. Sure she can heal a bit if you block an attack but you know what's worse than that? taking damage and having her heal or dying

It has already been proven that Malenia was an improvised boss. A few weeks before launch she existed in the game in a much more sober way, but at the last minute the devs made a series of adjustments to make her super hard in a very cheap way.

>>683638946
skill issue

>>683638946
What makes her cheap? Waterfowl is clearly meant to be a challenge for people that only roll and every other attack she does is very well telegraphed.

>>683638820
>>683639336
I don't get this insistence that blocking is a viable strategy, because my first build of the game was a high strength build with soft capped endurance. So my stamina bar was quite large, and I carried around that ugly great shield with the face on it. Blocking only served to extend the fight to impossible lengths, until she wears you down in a war of attrition.

And as for telegraphing, some of her attacks come out faster than the the player's recovery frames, if they're wielding slower weapons. Sometimes when you attack, she gets that staggering animation that allows you the time to recover before she retaliates. But then other times, she's just like "nope, I don't feel like getting staggered", and immediately transitions into an attack. So you're quite literally trapped in your recovery frames, while she just grabs you and skewers you.

There's no strategy to this, you just have to account for the fact that she won't stagger sometimes, and so you can only attack once, and then stop and see how she reacts. In order to mitigate retaliation. MITIGATE, I say. Because she can always decide not to stagger during your first attack, and retaliate.

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>>683633606
>you just have to roll and pray
*throws pot and carians on*

>>683640118
If you're in a war of attrition with a shield then you aren't using guard counters properly

You always have enough time to recover and dodge/block from your attacks unless they miss.

>people still bitching about her
>years after
Is she the most difficult From boss?

>>683640478
It's only waterfowl that makes her hard if you're a rollfag that refuses to use items. But I would still say yes considering how many people she left mind broken.

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>>683639091
>>683639336
Here's an explanation from a guy who's much better at it than I am.

>>683640476
>You always have enough time to recover and dodge/block from your attacks unless they miss.
WRONGWRONGWRONGWRONGWRONG
You must have never played with a truly large weapon before.

>>683640801
My first time killing her was with a colossal weapon

Why do people act like lock on is a fucking requirement. If the lock on sucks dick for a fight, stop fucking locking on. Just aim your attacks with the stick, its not even harder to do.

>>683640962
too used to games that have auto lock on for any melee combat

>>683640874
Then you must be truly an unga bunga. Too dumb to really tell what's happening. Let me reitterate: If she doesn't do her little animated stagger animation after you strike her, then she can transition into a move faster than you can recover. Do you grasp the condition I have set? Without the stagger animation, it's *as if* you missed her. Even though she still takes damage from the contact, her AI has not registered it as a hit, and so she just transitions into her next move, as if you didn't hit her.

>>683641204
You have enough time to roll away and block, that's what I'm telling you, you can refuse to believe it all you want

>>683640749
the random block was what really drove frustration into me when fighting malenia and she just has too many moves she does randomly that you can't predict, you just guess and hope for the best

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>>683640749
The very first point is already a lie, since Malenia's hitstun and counters are never shorter than your own recovery. You can only be punished if you press an attack way after seeing her block and retract.
Not reading any further either. Maybe if you seek more validation for your low skills you will find more retards like you to circlejerk

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>>683641329
Because you are button mashing like a retard so you lose it against a boss that requires constantly reading her state through animations

>>683640749
>here's a bitchfit from a button mashing retard that got filtered

>>683625997
There is also no good reason to not have a setting to separate the dodge button and the run button.

>>683633754
>blocking with a small greatsword

Why does /v/ pretend to be better than they actually are? Silly question, but you faggots are insufferable in these threads.

Malenia is top 5 souls bosses of all time and not even actually that hard unless youre a summoning faggot.
>Direct Bloodborne & Sekiro references mechanically, the 2 best modern Soulsborne games
>Subtle deflect mechanics, often counters your moves by clashing it with herown
>Every move is INCREDIBLY telegraphed by effects like her sword's sparks or animations
>one of the ONLY bosses post 2015 Ludwig that actually catches the player off guard that it has a secret second phase because of how intense the first phase is
>actually DISCOURAGES summoning and co-op
>the very final superboss of the endgame
Malenia is top tier. Waterfowl is the only retarded move because of how instantly you have to react to it

>>683638820
>She's already squishy
She literally has as much hp as Miquella for most builds
>33251 / 0.9 = 36945 (Malenia, before any HP regen)
>46134 / 0.6 / 2.05 = 37507 (Miquella)
She is not squishy by any sort of measure and you are fucking stupid

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>>683641204
>If she doesn't do her little animated stagger animation after you strike her, then she can transition into a move faster than you can recover.
no she can't

>>683635706
>I can first try DS2 bosses
Do you think that's an accomplishment LMAO

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>>683641204
>Even though she still takes damage from the contact, her AI has not registered it as a hit, and so she just transitions into her next move, as if you didn't hit her.
Look at this dude trying to explain hyperarmor like a caveman is trying to explain fire after the lightning lol

>>683641897
>DISCOURAGES summoning
She does not no such thing. It's pathetically easy to overpower and stunlock her with a summon.

I'm not very good at souls, but I am stubborn. Malenia made me absolutely seethe in my first playthrough but I was also stubbornly powerstancing colossal weapons. Since then on my less stupid builds she has been pretty fine. The build I did for the DLC was using Ordovis' Greatsword and that thing fucking destroyed her. Its weapon art can pancake her at full charge and you can do it risk free after a critical.

>>683641950
skill issue

>>683640962
I prefer being able to see the boss as they're attacking.

Never really struggled with Malenia because I don’t have the “spirit ashes are like coop mode” autism

>>683626668
>snappy and responsive
Souls games are anything but, I really think people just like it as a challenge of overcoming inherently sloppy and slow animations. Everything feels delayed and slow, I wonder if people actually enjoy it or do they just bang their head against the wall cause they're too stubborn to play something that's actually fun?

All of your Malenia problems go away the moment you put the Raptor Talons on. Just press R2 and watch the magic happen. She can't trade at all.

>>683642443
So control the camera yourself. Get that claw grip going.

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>>683641897
Malenia is one of the best bosses ever made. She is Friede upgraded in every way. Everything about how she counters, moves and reacts punishes the most braindead spammers but let good players can dance around her.
Same for Rellana and Messmer

>>683642709
>just change your build bro
>RPG mechanics aren't there for you to express yourself it's there for build autism bro

>>683642859
Rellana is just walking backwards until the last part of her 10 second combo and then punishing. Extremely boring.

>>683641295
No, you absolutely don't. I tested it. The results are replicable. It's scientific fact.

Do you think your webm proves anything? You don't have a sufficiently heavy weapon. And her first attack in your webm is one of her slow ones. It's not one of her fast ones. So you literally just got RNG lucky there.

And then halfway through your webm, she actually manages to retaliate on your after getting staggered. You guys exchange damage. Showing that even after a stagger, she can still move fast enough to make follow up attacks risky.

>>683642120
Hyper armor is typically active during a specific timeframe of a move. It's not always hyper armor with her. Because she's not always doing a move when she becomes unstaggerable.
But let's say it's proper hyper armor, and she's doing a move, the hyper armor activates on frame one of her move. Well that only proves that she began her attack before my attack even struck her. Which is worse than her attack starting in my recovery frames.

>>683643041
Meant to reply to you too >>683641982

>>683643041
She activates hyperarmor on recovery exactly because she is slow, and will give away she is about to do hyperarmored moves when that happens and she is hit so you can always react.
The only people who struggle with Malenia are retards that spam attacks blindly.

>>683642913
If you suck, you suck. Find another way, dickhead. I've beaten her with every weapon type. Some are clearly better than others in this fight. Adapt your arsenal or master the fight. Those are your options. Raptor Talons require 6 STR and 14 DEX. Milicent's prosthesis, an heirloom talisman, Okina's mask, the DLC pieces can get you the DEX you need if you somehow have none. They infuse well with everything. The Raptor Talons are just one example.

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>>683643041
>No, you absolutely don't. I tested it. The results are replicable. It's scientific fact.

>Do you think your webm proves anything? You don't have a sufficiently heavy weapon.
skill issue
>Showing that even after a stagger, she can still move fast enough to make follow up attacks risky.
to charged R2s

>>683625997
Yesterday I beat this bitch with a +0 Giant Crusher. I was challenging myself to beat the game without weapon upgrades and it took 12 minutes of whaling on her (total of both phases) to win.
The fight is an incredibly fun dance once you get the feel for it, but I've come to the conclusion that no matter how good you get, the waterfowl is still bullshit.

>>683633754
So block with a well-upgraded shield instead. Not only do you take no chip damage, but you also lose less stamina. Shield grease helps even further with blocking.

>>683643458
Nope, waterfowl is perfect, there's nothing wrong with it

>>683625997
Still haven't beaten her

>>683625997
Waterfowl isn't even the worst part of her moveset, it's the 3-hit slash that she cancel into and out of at random. That's why Phase 2 is significantly easier than the first, since she hardly uses it.

>>683643215
>She activates hyperarmor on recovery exactly because she is slow
What? Explain what you mean by "on recovery". You're saying she activates hyper armor at the end of her attack? Also, explain what you mean by "because she is slow". What does activating hyper armor at the end of her attack have to do with compensating for being slow?

>The only people who struggle with Malenia are retards that spam attacks blindly.
Not true. I very deliberately observed my hit timings. Because I was trying to determine when she staggers and when she doesn't. As far as I'm aware, she will stagger about two or three times, before the game decides that you're no longer allowed to combo her, and she stops staggering. But occasionally, she won't stagger even after the first strike. I haven't been able to figure that one out. I suppose it could be hyper armor. But I would argue that if she can hyper armor before your attack can land, then it's still bad design.

>>683643402
Again, your webm proves nothing. She did her stagger animation every time you hit her. You used your unique, weapon specific ash to ensure she staggers. In the end, when you didn't use your unique ash to stagger her, you one struck once, and then waited to see how she would react. Which is exactly the mitigating strategy I already said you had to do with slow weapons.

>to charged R2s
No, on the exchange, you R2 was not charged. You let it out prematurely. It was relatively fast. Faster than your standard colossal weapon swing speed.

>>683627974
>Fromsoft games are difficult is due to lack of good control.
No they're not, you're a retard. Take your DMC bullshit somewhere else.

>>683625997
The game is so much easier when you have a camera mod that lets you zoom it out it's not even funny. It's incredible how shit the camera is in ER when it was just fine in Sekiro even for big bosses like the ape and Demon of Hatred.

>>683625997
Sure but Radahn is still a bad boss no matter what.

>>683642859
>trying to call this pathetic combat system a dance
lmao

>>683630938
I've been shilling for shields since forever. People kept arguing against me.
Until this DLC I guess.

>>683630938
Yeah, its strange. The entire fanbase seems to be concerned with beating a boss with only rolling because everything else is "dishonest." Like the boss gives a fuck about how honest you are being.

>>683643726
I just beat her 3 times with different weapons

OP here, just beat her the first time I used Mimic :)

>>683626406
when you get good at the game you go from locking on to an enemy to locking off and back on again.

>>683646478
>Just block
This seams unhelpful. Most of Malenia's moveset is pretty easy to learn and react to, even her variations that seem like 50/50s at first.
Waterfowl is the only move you'll be blocking and if she busts it out at the end of an exchange of dodging and attacking you *will not* have enough stamina to block her first flurry unless you're running a weight/shield build anyway. If you do have enough stamina, you probably have enough time to just run away and out range the first flurry anyway.

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>>683638820
>Nobody should try to block every attack Malenia does either
Why not? At least if you've got a spear to offset her heal or interrupt her attacks (preventing her from healing or draining your stamina).
Even in phase 2 you can just keep trading blows with her. If you've got 50 or more endurance, Malenia is likely to fall to her knees before your guard is broken. I hadn't even upgraded my shield when I fought Malenia and I still won my trades against her.

Ultimately. What made the fight go from complicated to uncomplicated for me, was to stop being afraid of her and to just challenge her head on at every opportunity.
Turns out her poise and stance is so bad compared to other bosses that she actually crumbles first if you just never step away to allow her to rest. Even in phase 2.

>>683641408
You sound like a fanboy using "low skill" as an argument when the analysis I posted came from a guy who posted 50 videos killing Malenia with ease. Are you retarded?

>>683641729
>got filtered
I know that fanboys often use the "git gud" as an attempt to escape any discussion, but at least use this strategy with the right people.Holy shit, you guys are really retarded. No wonder you think Elden Ring is some kind of game design marvel.

>>683647349
>fingerprint shield and spear
fucking based
But if you aren't using a spear and shield it's not really worth blocking everything

>>683628542
But ER is literally in a shitty reverse dmc territory. Bosses style on player instead of other way around.

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>>683647349
>Ultimately. What made the fight go from complicated to uncomplicated for me, was to stop being afraid of her and to just challenge her head on at every opportunity.

This. If she gets her health back, it's not the end of the world

>>683648132
The people that think it's the end of the world remind me of the people that absolutely hate being poisoned despite it not being that bad at all.

>>683625997
Holy shit who the FUCK cares, just move on. How are you still not over it? Was this the only annoying boss you've ever fought in your entire life?

>>683629992
>Yes but most of the waterfowl avoidance techniques are retarded.
I just held my Greatshield and held forward.
If I tried to strafe or retreat backwards. Waterfowl would hit around my shield when she zoomed past me. But I learnt that if I just held forward instead, my character would maintain the proper shield angle and keep blocking the entire Waterfowl.
Pretty easy. Not complicated. Honestly very simple.

>>683648363
Show you respect faggot. This is Fromsoft we're talking about here.

>>683642848
>claw grip
Nah lmao
I'd rather learn to play the game on mouse & kb if it came to that.

The whole difficulty comes from having one game for the player character and a different game for the bosses. basically having to deal with sekiro bosses while still controlling the demon souls guy.
it's insane that we got sekiro controls which were amazing and then immediately reverted to this old stupid shit in the worst, most disjointed way possible.

>>683642848
Just get a controller with back buttons and bind run to one of them. Works for me.

>>683642859
>literally only possible because you're two-handing your weapon

>>683650549
it's almost like they are 2 completely different games going for 2 completely different styles of gameplay, turns out you like 1 more than the other

>>683626406
Not being able to understand that locking on is optional, especially in the game with the most small groups of enemies is indicative of being a game journalist or a woman
>>683642530
>I really think people just like it as a challenge of overcoming inherently sloppy and slow animations.
This isn't Metal Gear Rising wish fufillment power fantasy slop, attacks take time to wind up because weapons have actual weight behind them, making combat methodical and realistic. Thinking they have just been accidentally made the animations slow for the last 14 years is also indicative of being a game journalist or a woman.

>>683640749
>block mechanic
if she clikcs her prosthetic she has hyper armor
>front flip
don't care, it punishes players using slow windups without poise investment
>swipes
literal skill issue
>waterfowl
IQ check to see if a player can make a connection to when she starts using it more and her health bar
>kick
don't care, it punishes players with slow reflexes using slow windups without poise investment. minor vig check
>muh recovery
she's a boss you can freely stagger out of every clickless combo that isn't waterfowl. Malenia is just a IQ check, vig check and poise check. You only have to pass 1 or 2 of those 3. You can literally just wait for her to go back to neutral and you won't get touched phase 1 if you're patient

>>683625997
People criticize sekiro for being a rhythm game yet waterfowl is pretty much a really shitty QTE kek

>>683640749
>input reading kick
she does it on reaction to being hit, which looks like an input read if you mash. just don't mash.

>>683655165
>if she clikcs her prosthetic she has hyper armor
off the top of my head this is only true for the stab; triple slash makes sparks but has zero armor, a bunch of random attacks and actions like both kicks, forward jump/dash, side/back steps, waterfowl, part of the grab, and some others have armor with no click

>>683630938
Because of the old DS1 meme. Now with the SOTE release people are realizing "Oh shit I should be using a shield"

>>683625997
>the problem is the controls
It's funny because that has been the case since fucking Demon Souls, and for some reason they decided it was a good idea to make the games significantly more fast paced and action focused without adjusting the controls accordingly

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The worst part about Malenia is the camera

>>683632120
>combat was designed around observing carefully and finding openings when the enemy is committed to an attack, while also leaving yourself open when you commit to an attack and still having a chance to react when you see something coming
the game still works like this if your brain has a high enough clockspeed

>>683658406
people who say this are just coping with the fact that they have subhuman reaction times. What changes would you make to the controls if you had the choice, because I don't think you have an answer. i think you just blame "the controls" because you're shit at the game

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Loretta was harder. At least she can two/three shot you.

>>683659159
No it isn't. You aren't positioning yourself around Radahn so that he whiffs and you can hit him when he has such aggressive tracking, you certainly aren't outspacing him and most of his attacks aren't jumpable. You roll, block or trade. That's it for most of the fight.

>>683659995
I think you just give up easily and were overwhelmed by the speed and effects because everything you just described is still present in the fight

Malenia is fine. Actually, every boss except Radahn 2 and Fortissax is good. That is because Malenia utilizes your base set very well while Radahn doesn't reward experimentation with jumps strafing that much at all. It DOES reward experimenting with ashes and shields and all that, but Malenia did that too and it was more fun there.
Fortissax is bad because ancient dragons are bad. Drakes, Placidusax, The Ice Dragonkin, and Bayle are fun. The Ice Dragonkin is pushing it a bit, kinda just a neat spectacle.

>>683625997
I'm going back to Malenia after completing the DLC, and it's astounding how much you can bully her

>>683660163
The ancient dragons would be fun fights if they actually lower their fucking head so you can smash it instead of their ankles.

>>683652693
>not two-handing a greatsword

>>683660163
Malenia doesn't have a balanced moveset at all and practically all her sword attacks can be ignored because she has the poise of a paper bag, unless you're attacking her during hyper armor. The whole fight boils down to playing around a SINGLE combo (Waterfowl) every 30 seconds while the rest of her attacks can be cancelled by attacking her or easily avoided. It's always been a shit fight.

>>683625997
the controls are utter garbage, yes. the game has a lot of effort put into weapon combos, movesets, positioning but it all boils down to turning into an armadillo to phase out of enemy attacks because they track anyway and any worthwhile enemy just ignores your combos. the fucking red misbegotten faggot being a huge red tumor of tracking as an example, slowly rising during his leap attack like it just plopped sv_gravity 02 and slowly turning towards you up to 270 fucking degrees to land that sword slam. holy shit.
Or you can just ignore anything about positioning by using a shield, suddenly malenia's killer tracking move is just a virtual HP bubble for her and back we go to the roll mines go get that juicy charged R2 that you've been doing the whole game because nobody fucking lets you test your weapons so might as well stagger-spam.
OR just dragonmaw her ass with a mimic tear and she'll never get up again unless she waterfowl dances... then you throw a frost pot on her cunt and she chills down, that charge up is slow enough to make elden ring look like a turn based active time RPG, you're already pressing 1 button to win like it's fucking final fantasy.

The game is genuinely built around you finding ways to dunk the shit on bosses. I can't confirm to you if that's what they wanted, From is very hazy in managing to make good shit out of garbage, and the hard controls serves as a way for you to find another ways to deal with the boss. I'm inclined to believe that they don't know how to make shit and the controls are garbage, malenia is pure undiluted rotten unbalanced shit made in like 3 minutes on blender and the playtesting and balancing team consists of Hidetaka Miyazaki recording his playthroughs at home while streaming the pre-release builds to the rest of the from team as they party and giggle away at the game's bullshit because none of that shit makes sense but the games keep trucking on.

>>683661221
unironically sounds like you got filtered

>>683661389
how the fuck does one get filtered after 100% the game in 2022?

>>683661465
Emotional filter, it filtered out all of your positive emotions and left you with anger.

>>683661534
I'm pretty sure wanting to mating press tiche is a positive filter

>>683660620
you're supposed to hit their heads
maybe not plasiduax but I killed all the white ones heavy attacking their squishy heads
when they do a roar after an attack its a green light for whacking, no roar and they can follow up very quickly

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>>683641204
>then she can transition into a move faster than you can recover.
Wrong. Fromsoft literally designed this shit with 200iq.

Every single frame of an attack animation is governed by specific mechanics and classified as specific frames. When your attack hits and causes a flinch it causes recovery frames and Malenias ability that cancels recovery frames can not cancel enough of them so that her next attack comes out faster than the recovery frames from your weapon swing. Its LITERALLY impossible for her to attack faster than your weapons recovery frames allow you to dodge unless you press attack after she already starts her recovery frame canceling animation.

The youtube video showing that "she is unfair for attacking faster than you can recover" is hilarious because the example the guy gave shows him pressing R1 like a half second after she does her recovery animation.

If you dont R1 spam as fast as possiblethen its easy not to get trapped, just wait like 0.5 seconds longer than normal in between attacks to see if she cancels her recovery frames and if she doesnt then attack again, if she does then dont attack, easy.

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>>683625997
>>Full second of holding roll before you can sprint
I like how they made the best control change of all time in Sekiro and made dodging on button press instead of on release, and then rolled it back for ER and then added input lag on top of that.

>>683625997
The problem is retards can’t parry which is her biggest weakness

>>683640749
if this is the guy im thinking of he learned how to fight malenia by turning on god mode for like 6+ hours.
This makes him an authority figure on elden rings game design apparently.

>>683661941
I found it very hard to hit the head of those ancient dragons with melee weapons, while for the normal overworld dragons i can smack their head just fine

>>683662417
>three parries for one riposte
>vs a boss that gets interrupted from being hit and stance breaks in two hits from some weapons/AoWs
I can get it for most other bosses, but I don't see the advantage at Malenia. If you're patient enough for parrying you've already gotten past the mashing habit that filters most people, might as well do damage with the hits leading up to the crit too.

>>683659286
>fall off ledge for the 967263324243797th time because the game controls are janky as shit
>damn, I wish I had better reaction times

>>683664817
The delay before every action makes the game feel so much worse
You get used to it, but almost a half second before you actually jump and roll is such a fucking weird design decision

>>683640749
No hit challenge runners are mostly retards who push a lot of misinformation with no source to back it up, like in this image.

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Malenia is arguably the best designed and funnest boss in souls history. Just come clean and admit your feelings got hurt because you couldn't figure out how to play the game.

>>683626406
What? Do you also think that your supposed to be jumping constantly just because the jump button exists?

I've seen this argument before but I never understand why people think that just because a feature exists, you need to use it all the time every time

>>683663848
>I can get it for most other bosses, but I don't see the advantage at Malenia
Her attacks are very telegraphed and easy to parry on reaction.

>>683625997
Deflecting tear turns this bitch into arguably the most fun boss in the game. Further proof she was designed for Sekiro.

>>683625997
>the problem with the bad game is that it's bad
No shit Sherlock.

>>683667841
she was the 2nd best souls bosses pre dlc

>>683625997
ocarina of time's settings had it right
lock on should be a held button

>>683655165
>vig check
Or you just do >>683647349 even with a mere 10vig.

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>>683626282
>Has a shield
>Blocks with the sword

Reutrning to this game makes me want to play Bayonetta. Stopping my offense because the boss is attacking feels outdated.

>>683639336
>Waterfowl is clearly meant to be a challenge for people that only roll
Then why, pray tell, did they design a game where rolling is the universal defensive option accessible to all builds and 90% of attacks in the game are iframe baits?

>>683669279
You know what else is accessible to all builds? Shields, and running, and jumping.

>It's the control scheme's fault I died
>It's the shitty boss design that I died
>It's because of input delay
>It's not fault though, it's never my fault for dying

>>683632032
wooden shield is one of the strongest items in bloodborne anon

the entire time I fought her, I thought
>"wow this would be ludo if it was a bloodborne fight"
then I realized that applied to all of ER

>>683630938
I haven't used a shield and still beat every Souls game. I'm just not going to use it plain and simple, only pussies hide behind them or blocking.

>>683668146
what's the first?

>>683670874
isshin

>>683642530
you think it's unintentional or what?
dark souls 1 is slower than demon's souls despite being the newer game

>>683667841
You are now aware that 90% of her moves can be interrupted if you hit her just before she hits you, including those side steps where she has hyper armor. even her forward triple blade flurry attack can be safely interrupted with a dagger if you tap r2 just before it hits you.

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>>683671712
>people whine about having to dodge 5+ attacks just to R1 once fighting Elden Ring bosses
>get to the boss that isn't like that
>she generates even more seethe than anything before her
how does she do it?

>>683673186
>using the dlc gears to fight base game boss
>buff stacking
May as well just turn on cheat engine

>>683673186
>post nerf patch
This proves nothing.

>>683627562
Not him. It's bad.

>>683632705
>She can be staggered of 90% of her moveset.
>*animation cancels you*
>I AM MALENIA, BLADE OF MIQELLA.

>>683642848
I prefer being able to use my hand when I'm in my 50s thank you very much.

>>683632120
Agreed too many attacks are impossible to read from the animations and you just have to memorize the timings like a metronome, it's tedious

>>683642329
kys dicksucker

>>683641897
>>683642859
There are like 2 or 3 autistic challenge runners on this board and they are all in this thread.

>>683642990
You can jump a lot of her attacks
>>683642859
The latter two are fun
Malenia is tedious bullshit that forces you to play passively and has too much health
>inb4 some fag who used Blasphemous Blade says she dies too quickly

>>683640749
>complain about a boss
>git gud
>guy that got gud complains about a boss
>g-git gud git gud GIT GUD DR. HAN
Elden Ring fans are cancer.

Waterdowl dance can be blocked. Malenia's other attacks can be parried. Those who think that Malenia doesn't give enough windows either don't know how to play or are just delusional who think they are playing DS3.

>>683625997
There's literally no problem with Melania.
There is however a problem with the god damn hippo and the fact that you can never see his attacks when you're under his head because the fucking camera is spastic.

Rellana and Messmer being 100x more cancerous than her now makes it funnier.

>>683676036
>Waterdowl dance can be blocked.
Why would I intentionally heal her?

>>683676409
Until an enemy deletes your save file upon death, I don't think Malenia is going to be topped. Her speed with that regen is just the worst.

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Still not as bad as le promised consort

Its malenia and her heal by hitting the air

>>683676409
Anon thats the stupid skibidi tuning

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>>683676589
True, but just because my computer literally couldn't handle it.

Trying to predict a retarded swing timer on a boss sure is fun.
The next Souls game should have bosses do slight twiches while winding up their attacks to bait you into rolling and then hit you with their one shot desperation finishers.

>>683676409
three of them are the top tier soulsbornekiro bosses
cope retard

>>683676923
>Miyazaki-sama! What should we do about the last boss of the DLC to make it memorable?
>Give the retards a light show. That's all they care about anyway, right?

>>683675245
cry about it

>>683676409
Rellana only took me 3 tries and I barely even had any scadutree blessings
Dancing Lion I got on the first try

you guys have really exaggerated the difficulty of the DLC honestly

>>683679242
/v/ is absurdly bad at videogames these days

>>683676170
>There's literally no problem with Melania.
>>683625997
>The problem with Malenia isn't Malenia
BITCH LITERALLY HAS BROKEN ANIMATIONS THAT INVALIDATE GAME LOGIC AND MECHANICS

Does that make her harder? Potentially. Is it intended? Fuck no. So no, Malenia does in fact have problems.

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>>683631874
What R1 spam. You can clearly see in the webm that the anon is turtling the flurries to then hit back with a reversal during an opening. These reversals are incredibly strong that landing a few in short succession results in the enemy staggering allowing you to follow up with a critical hit.

>>683644215
DMC, Monster Hunter, DD, Bayonetta all have infinitely more complex combat than DS and better controls
play actually good action games or kill yourself braindead fromdrone tranny

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>>683644169
>What? Explain what you mean by "on recovery". You're saying she activates hyper armor at the end of her attack?
No, on her hitstun recovery
>Also, explain what you mean by "because she is slow". What does activating hyper armor at the end of her attack have to do with compensating for being slow?
Because if she didn't have hyperarmor she would get stunlocked hard, but the tell that she stopped flinching to attacks is enough to know that her next attack will have hyperarmor
>Not true.
It is
>But occasionally, she won't stagger even after the first strike.
You are not supposed to know when she will stagger, you have the time to react when she doesn't. It's chainin attacks carelessly that gets you killed
>She did her stagger animation every time you hit her.
No she didn't
>You used your unique, weapon specific ash to ensure she staggers.
Except she didn't stagger to it, which told me she is about to counter it

>>683682087
>all have infinitely more complex combat than DS
wrong
>and better controls
nope lol, games with directionally boubded jump/dodge moves and mandatory lock-on all control like garbage

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>>683682087
>Elden Ring
>Complex combat based on reading animation states and evaluating hyperarmor values on each of those states unique for each enemy in relation to 3 tiers of hitstun and 12 hyperarmor values while navigating a 3d enviroment to manipulate hurtboxes to your advantage
>DMC
>If enemy glow = no stagger
woahh so complex, I wonder why hack and slash faggots gets filtered by Malenia

>>683644169
It's very simple dude, anon hit her with an R2 and she didn't flinch while getting up. That's a tell that she will do something with hyperarmor.
The game tells the player when she will not stagger, you have to pain attentiob and not spam.

>>683682503
>wrong
I'm right
>nope lol
yes lol
cope fromtranny, soulslop will never be real action games

>>683625997
Bump

>>683667136

It doesn't really make sense that the way to counter an attack is for your character in-game to arbitrarily forget they exist for a moment.

My only real problem with her is that she still lifesteals through your shield
>oh it's uhhh because lorewise that's her DETERMINATION letting her lifesteal
yeah, nah
it's bullshit
my shield does not have life to steal