but i beat the game without them?

I didn't use them.
I had more fun than you.

>>683669986
>USE SUMMONS YOU FUCKWITS
No. I don't like the game bypassing all challenge for me without input. I want to kill the enemies myself.

>THE DLC IS SCREAMING AT YOU TO USE SUMMONS
I do not care.

>THE BOSSES ARE BALANCED AROUND SUMMONS
I still beat them all without them.

>JUST USE THEM
No.

>>683670016
>used a piece of meat with bleed cheatcode skill
wow

>>683669986
>THE BOSSES ARE BALANCED AROUND SUMMONS
This has pretty much never been the case.
99.99% of Souls bosses are designed around solo melee. A boss can only aggro on one target at a time, a summon can take that aggro, therefore you don't have to master the boss's moveset.
The one exception in the Elden Ring DLC is the NPC fight where they clearly want you to summon NPCs for story reasons.

>i think the mechanics of these bosses are becoming tedious and frustrating
>have you tried *feature that lets you just ignore boss mechanics completely*
might as well just turn the game off, which is what I ended up doing

i used magic-missile to beat every boss, so summons made sense

>>683669986
I don't want to. I became a fromsoft fan because I liked fighting bosses 1v1. Why the fuck would they design their next game around using cheats?

Ok, which ones are good then? Mimic Tear and Tiche got old.

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>>683669986
No thanks.

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I'm gonna have fun playing and you sweaty faggots can be try hards
>yes I did beat the game
>I have the achievements that say I do

>>683669986
why yes I did 1v5 leda fight and parry radahn to death

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>>683669986
They like to torture themselves. Let them go.Smart people know how to keep their minds from getting unnecessarily tired. Just like hard work is for the lower class people. Even Miyazaki are agree with me . That's why he have time to do something else like read berserk manga and create great games.

>>683670501
>Even Miyazaki are agree with me .

It's basically there for normalfags and streamers.

You have to be absolutely retarded if you think bosses are designed with spirit summons in mind.

My primary criticism over summons is that, unlike being able to master a skillset of using pretty much any individual weapon or spell or incantation, spirit ashes are a sliding skill of worst to best with almost no variance beyond the two archer summons being crazy against things that they can actually stagger. You work your way up to Tiche (You have to put effort into your build to make mimic tear better) and there's no mechanical reason to use anything else.

Beyond that though I'll say Elden Ring is the hardest fromsoft game to do challenge runs in, but the easiest if you use all the tools provided.

It was so crazy seeing all the newfags get into fromsoftware games with Elden Ring. the player base increased by like 10 times and they were doing retarded shit.
>farming XP like its a korean MMO
>sharing exploits to get to max level asap or skip boss fights
>people talking about which youtube guide for builds to follow before they even start the game
>people buying items off of chinese sites (the trainer is free, lmao)
>people arguing that the bosses are too fast and designed around summons
>people complaining about "input reading" because bosses punish them for healing when the boss is sttaring right at them just walking towards them
This shit was wild. im glad i decided to stop buying new games after elden ring, the nu-fans are absolutely atrocious and bandai/fromsoft jumped the shark and went full pander mode. i cant even pretend they arent making knee jerk reaction balance changes to appease bad players anymore.

>>683670473
Anybody can go watch a movie, but only some people can truly appreciate it.

>>683670501
>ESL starts making up stories to cope with a hollow victory
You love to see it.

>>683670110
>>683670071
nice larp

>>683669986
The only boss in ER that was designed around summons was original Radahn in Caelid.

>>683670637
>but the easiest if you use all the tools provided.
that would be dark souls 1. you can face tank every attack and poise through it, ignoring the damage, for almost every attack i nthe game. i think manus had 1 attack you needed to at least block if you werent rolling though.

YOu dont know dark souls 1 is the easiest because the veterans of the series successfully gaslit you into not wearing armor or using a shield in order ot make the game more interesting for you.

>>683669986
Look, as much as I appreciate From putting in the effort to give use summonable monster buddies, the problem with summons since DeS is the bosses are not designed with multiplayer in mind. I mean this not in terms of health but in AI.

The player is given such room to decimate a boss who lets up it's assault for just a moment that fights become trivial to anybody who has learned the mechanics of the game.

From has not taken steps to fix this or to truly give the player a meaningful experience when a summon occurs.

It's always been a game of "Lol this retard is garbage and summoning me to beat the boss for them".

>>683670825
loser cope

>>683670886
DaS1 Poise was the best Poise system in the entire series thougheverbeit?

>>683669986
it's a shame you couldn't have the summons with you all the time, but with the way pathfinding works outside of the boss arenas it's kind of understandable that summons didn't quite meet their obvious vision playing the game with an rpg party
maybe next time

>>683670854
also the only boss that is harder with summons

>>683670795
>he analyzes movies for deeper meaning
or you could go outside and stop living vicariously through some directors "vision"
I bet you're the kind of faggot that can't enjoy a B movie

i did use them

golem smith fucks

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>>683670825
Nope.

>>683670940
>DaS1 Poise was [subjective opinion without argument] in the entire series[meme word salad babble retardation]?
Cool post bro

>>683670897
I'd also like to add that this is the case for a lot of games. Monster Hunter is Praised for its multiplayer but a lot of the times you feel like other players are detracting from the challenge by distracting the monster.

It's not as bad, because monsters in that series tend to have sporadic aggro breaks and attacks that indirectly fuck up everybody, but it's something worth noting in all multiplayer third person action game fights.

I dunno what version of ER you guys are playing but it must be the one where summons are literal gods that do 10% of a boss' HP as guaranteed damage per hit if you're so adamant that spirit ashes break the game in half.

>>683670942
it sucks that invaders cant use summons. the coliseum with ashes is the funnest pvp mode in the whole game. i wanna have pokemon battles with people

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>>683670796
What make up ? He said in the interview that he is so bad at playing and need help with all opinions the game offer. Also his multiplayer inspired come from his experience when his car stuck in snow and many strangers folks help push his car.

Nah i am doing guts berserk solo playing right now and beat every boss without spirit or npc. So i can return to use it as i want . It's not much difference. Just more wasted of time to remember boss patterns. Plus i don't to be " the 8000th let me solo her" players. It's nothing special about it at all

>>683670940
Weve reached a point of contrarianism on nu /v/ where all the third-worlders and people who follow streamers think DeS, DaS and Bloodborne are bad games.

>>683671049
>shield
>buffs
lmfao, you did NOT beat the game

>>683671164
>Unironic namefag who's also avatarfagging
Better secure that before I make you suck cock.

>>683670313
i forced myself to use other summons. i think in the base game cleanrot finlay is just overall the best outside of those.

>>683669986
nah, you go ahead if you need them so much :)

>>683671208
I didn't use the shield, parrying Radahn is pointless. I deflected Radahn. Both times. It was a fuckin blast.

>>683671208
>weapons
>armor
>magic
>items
Nobody beat the game

>>683671208
It's okay, he was probably just doing his first run on training wheels, I'm sure he plans to do his next playthrough properly.

>>683669986
It really isn't, though. Summons and co-op make SotE ten times harder (which is one of the many reasons it sucks dick)

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>elden ring
>hard
the game is a joke if you actually use your brain and care to try, people who brag about defeating any boss are losers

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*snipes the boss from across the map, staggering all non-huge enemies*
Nothing personnel, kid

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>>683671219
>Suddenly talk about Suck cock
So that's your hobby? No thanks . This is why i hate low class people . They are no manners and rude.

>>683669986
>THE BOSSES ARE BALANCED AROUND SUMMONS
A handful of major bosses feel that way, but most are completely trivialized. And even when they aren't trivialized, having a meat shield that draws aggro feels wrong.

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>>683669986
Some people will just never understand how it feels to have that nigga that's got your back.

Please please PLEASE disregard that I suck cock.

>>683671369
>Healing items
You did not beat Radahn.

>>683670139
>you don't have to master the boss's moveset.
You're almost there, but you missed the mark.
The problem isn't that summons trivialize a boss, it's that they make it impossible to master a boss. With bosses able to switch targets midswing and aggro being impossible to truly manage, you're just gambling that you won't get dead angled or smacked in the face.

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>mage build with Carian Regal Scepter
>try mimic on Radan for the first time with all my spells equipped
>mimic only tries to cast the spells with long ass casting times and gets interrupted all the time
>try again but only equipping the Comet spell
>mimic goes and tries to hit Radan with the spinny staff thingy
I ended up just cheesing him with Impenetrable Thorns

>>683671372
Shoop the Whoops is fucking back.

>>683671057
>Simple and relatively easy to grasp
>Allowed heavy armor to be actually good
What else is there to be said? It would've been perfectly balanced with modern Souls movesets, it only feels OP because DaS1 is such a slow paced game.

>>683669986
You're so scared of Fromfags screaming git gud at you that you'll accept this horrible shit instead of asking for an easy mode.
>The best strategy to beat bosses is to run away most of the time and only get the free hits given to you by the AI controlled spirit who's actually fighting the boss.
If I said I was going to make a ball-bustingly hard game but that was the easy mode I would be rightfully laughed at but since it's Fromsoft who can do no wrong then it's somehow a good thing.
Make no mistake, summons are turbo easy mode and an actual setting that made bosses have less health would be harder and less intrusive on everyone else since getting spirit ash rewards (maybe 30-40% of rewards are to do with them) wouldn't feel like shit for players who don't use them. But I guess that way normalfags, the major Fromsoft audiance, wouldn't be able to feel like they beat a hardcore game.

>>683671784
The game is not hard without summons, you just outed yourself as a shitter.

It's cheese, IT JUST IS OKAY?

>>683670139
elden ring bosses can switch targets mid combo and have multiple attacks that also hit behind or beside them
all those people complaining about not having a window to attack because the boss attacks too fast are ignoring the mechanic that would give them extra openings

>>683669986
>I NEED VALIDATION
Maybe you need to convince yourself that you beat the game, not others?

>>683669986
Haven't played the game yet.

Are summon items one use and finite or as long as you have it you can use it as much as you want? or something in between?

>>683671952
You can use them once during any boss fight, there's even a big icon notifying you whenever you can do it, almost as if the developers intended for you to do it

>>683669986
no way fag
im not a pussy

>>683671847
Kill yourself. If you actually engage with the bosses instead of using lame cheese shit that you probably looked up which gives you an 80% chance to blow the bosses head off first try then it is hard.

>>683672058
>nooooo you did not beat the boss it was cheese! you are only allowed to use: (insert arbitrary list of restrictions)
lol
get good

>>683672018
So they're one use items that you can only get one of in a playthrough?

It sounds like even if the game wants you to use them, you don't want to because of how little there is. It's like the Drago Powder, Max Revives, etc

>>683672118
No, you can use them as many times as you want, but only once during one fight.

>>683672092
How do I do that? Most of the things I've seen make the game look lame as fuck.

>>683672118
the limitation is when you enter the area where it can be summoned, you can only summon it once per life, meaning that if the summon dies it cannot be resummoned in this area till your death
if you enter a second area where you can summon, in the same life, you can summon it again

>>683672228
>>683672178
Oh thats what you mean. Good to know. Any recommended ones?

>>683672228
i suppose death isn't the right term either, since if you rest you can summon it again, but then the area has reset anyway

I started summoning and using spirit ashes on my second playthrough and found it unfun. It really is easy mode the bosses don't focus on you half the time so you can charge heavies all day. Don't have to learn a damn thing just attack when they aggro the spirit epic gameplay.

>play the game the intended way
>it isn't fun
>blame the players for "cheesing" and not the developers for bad game design
When did From gain immunity from criticism?

When in doubt I summon my jarbros, their sacrifice makes me play better.

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Does everybody forget that summons, both players and spirit ashes, have been prominently featured in the marketing of these games as a selling point since DeS?

>>683669986
The only time I extensively used summons in the DLC was during the Needle Knight Leda fight. It's absurd how long they make you wait for Ansbach and Thiollier to spawn in. Even when they do spawn it, there's a chance they'll stand back and not approach the people I'm fighting at all even when I have all of their attention. That fight in general soured my opinion of the DLC. If your Scadutree Blessing level is 0, you HAVE to use every summon the game gives you. Otherwise, you'll be stuck fighting against a group of enemies that all have higher health than you do. They all do a lot more damage than you do to. They do essentially nothing during the fight with Radahn because he deals so much damage to them that they won't have a chance to hit him back.

>>683672294
Watch Fromfags say how this is better than a normal easy mode because then they wouldn't be able to say they beat the nice hardcore game that sold 15 million copies and is normalfag core.

>>683670139
>99.99% of Souls bosses are designed around solo melee.

The game is called, Elden ring, BOOMER GET ON WITH THE TIMES. This isn't Dark Souls where you could chain backstab a black knight and pretend online the game is hard. Elden Ring is a hard game so use all available game mechanics, you tryhard.

>>683671192
?
Haven't touched BB but yes des and ds1 are bad games like the rest. des has soul/atmosphere, da1 has world design and way better combat than des. that's about it. some of the overhaul mods are truly good upgrades to the base trash that is ds1 though!!!

>>683672425
it's okay that you were 40 levels overlevelled, not including your effective levels with the talisman you were using
we played a different game than you, that's all

>>683672425
for real brother, I played the game in true hard mode, strength only, spamming giant hunt with my guts sword and jumping attacks with my dual wielded greathammers, now that was a real challenge

>>683672425

The summons esp. Mimic tear/Tiche are literally easy mode only you don't use are in game setting so the tryhards can still pretend their game is hard and made for real gamers.

>>683672557
don't really see how this is related to what I said but ok. Is parodying Fromfags who have to show off how hardcore they were by saying they beat the normalfag GotY Elden Ring is a more legit way than someone else?

>>683672663
run on sentence too long

>>683672712
git gud at reading

>>683672483
The game is called Elden Ring because you run the old ring around the bosses until you can smack them in the face.

>>683672616
Thanks for admitting Elden Ring is a horribly designed game.

>>683672118
>>683672228
>>683672281
I have played Code Vein, and still need to finish Bloodborne, so die or reach a checkpoint then.

Is there any level cap on to what you can summon? Like will there be a point where your too strong to summon anyone? How does it work with multi phase bosses?

>>683670139
Is that why every boss has AOE in ER?

>>683672810
Let me guess, you got stuck at Margit.

>>683672810
no shit, the people who DON'T use summons or """cheese""" are the cultist drones

>>683672903
How could I get stuck when I had the no skill summon option?

>>683669986
Summons are essentially like bumper rails for bowling, except when I go bowling nobody that uses bumper rails tries to to force them on me.

>>683672949
>How could I get stuck
By being a casual who blames the game for his lack of skill.

>be told to play the game
>I play the game
>"you didn't beat the game"
Faggots

>>683672984
You don't need skill to beat the game, how did you think it got so many accolades? You can let your AI partners do all the fighting for you, there's not much skill to be found there.

>>683673024
>plays the game wrong
>uses built-in cheats
>gets mad when told this isn't the intended experience
retard

*spawn in 55 lord runes*
*level up*

>>683672830
the vocabulary is getting tricky here, what most people refer to as "summon" is going to be spirit ashes, then there is "cooperators" that are more player-like
cooperators come in two flavors, npcs (not available for every fight) or online players
online players you can matchmake with will depend on your level, but that will not be relevant to npc or spirit ashes

npc cooperators may increase the health of the boss if summoned outside of the boss arena, but will not increase the health of the boss when summoned from within the arena
player cooperators are summoned outside of the arena so they will increase the boss's health
spirit ashes do not increase the boss's health

npc cooperators have no cost associated with them to summon
spirit ashes generally have large FP cost, but some use HP, and there is a summon with zero cost of any resources
the FP cost for some spirit ashes can be so high that your character's build restricts you from being able to use that one

>>683673080
summons and spiritasjes are the intended experience, but that experience is rubbish.

>>683673080
>built in cheats
You mean one shotting bosses by stacking buffs?
Or did you mean stagger locking them with heavy attacks?
Or was it any of the bugged spells that did too much damage?

>>683672381
*spawn in

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I recognize the designers intended for us to use summons, but given that it's a stupid ass design I've elected to ignore it

>>683669986
Cope, loser

>>683669986
i quit playing and using summons isnt gonna make me go back

I've never played a souls game, is this like trying to beat SMT3 without debuffs or is it more like beating SMT5 without dampeners?
Those are different things

I avoid having fags connecting to my game

>>683674395
>I play the worst rpgs ever made, is it like the best action games ever made?

kys faggot

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I like to fight bosses with my cute girlfriend Tiche

>>683670139
bud thinks fromsoft wants him to "master movesets" after they put waterfowl dance in the game
you're playing the game wrong buddy

>>683674613
>redditor is still getting filtered by waterfowl in 2024

>>683674495
didn't graduate middleschool so you can't manage to work an analogy?

>>683674395
How’s Vengeance?

>>683674815
great, better than base. especially if you didn't like the level scaling or the barebones narrative.
I think the only reason to play base V now is for the exclusive superbosses or to see the neutral end

>>683669986
>like the boss
play it fair
>don't like the boss
use summons

Shrimple as that

>>683669986
Nah I’d solo

>>683674783
sorry should i make a food analogy you redditor piece of shit?

>balanced around the summons

Summons trivialize them.

>>683675091
>dancing lion again for some reason but that summons basilisks
those two carnival niggas can eat my poison arrows

>>683671281
>deflected
Using MODS? lmao, jesus

>>683675292
reading comprehension is shit too,
as expected of a niggerlipped smoothbrain

>Game rewards you for summons
>90% of the dlc bosses just bumfuckrush you before you can even summon once you're in the mist wall
God I hated the dlc.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO I NEED TO PROVE MY EPEEN!

>>683675318
As someone who does melee and two-hands a weapon I just slapped on the Beast Repellent Torch and none of the basilisks attacked me. It works even if you have it equipped on your back.

>>683669986
Even without summon, fights feel kinda shitty now, you either do attacks that delete 1/4 or half of the boss's hp or you gimp yourself and extend the fight and have to deal delayed and long string of combos waiting for attack, feels like in previous game you always had great balance fight

>>683669986
Only using the NPC summons on my first playthrough because story.
Will not use any on second.

>>683671630
>Connecting controller or keyboard
You did not beat Radahn

>>683676620
Bosses and NPCs will never abide by the players limited rules, their next game is going to make ER look like a joke because they'll double down on it.

>>683669986
The summons actually made the game way harder this time and they buttfuck you faster than you can say Gyatttt

>>683676192
>It works even if you have it equipped on your back.
holy fuck i never knew that

>>683676869
Their next game was AC6 and it wasn’t that difficult

>>683669986
DSP didn't need them.

>>683671164
Trust yourself!

>>683670016
>>683670071
Based. Bosses like Rellana and Messmer are just so much more fun without them.

I don't think people who play with summons actually enjoy the game. They just wasted their money on a game that they hate every second of, but they want to get it over with as fast as possible

>>683677628
/v/ cried about Balteus for months

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Summon if you're outnumbered.
Don't summon if it's a one-on-one.

It is THAT simple. /thread.

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>>683669986
I summon my wife all the time though

>>683674957
> only reason to play base V now is for the exclusive superbosses
What?
Isn't it Lucifer, Shiva, and Demifiend, which the latter is DLC? Aren't they all in Vengeance (Including both canons)?

>>683676192
that's clever, I for one didn't even remember that this torch existed

>>683678427
heal if they heal

>>683669986
>I didn't beat the game!
>I DIDN'T BEAT THE GAME!

>>683678623
I think he means the route in Vengeance that follows the same story as base V. It has a superboss that doesn't appear in the Vengeance route.

>>683673406
>bugged spells
>bugged
ER doesn't have bugs, everything is dictated by lore. Sometimes that lore gets amended when the tryhard players misuse the related items or spells. But there's never been any "bugged spells" in the history of the game.

I played through the DLC once using summons and backhand blades. I am now playing through it using Milady and no summons. There is absolutely zero room for debate that the game is more fun without summons and feels like the intended experience. You have to be severely mentally disabled, delusional or disingenous to argue otherwise.

>>683679348
Probably. he said base V which made me wonder if I was missing something and O 5 has content that didn't carry over.

>>683669986
Having over a 1000h in ER + SOTET my perception of summons changed. During my first NG I tried to avoid them. But after going into NG+ cycles I just said fuck it and pulled out the Dungmuncher (holds aggro well + tanky). I would say summons make some of the 40+ try bosses into 5-10 try bosses if you dont use a OP summon, it equals going from "hard mode" to "normal mode".

I dont think they make the fights too easy in NGs. Ofcause if you are a casual who never starts NG+ I would say they arent really needed.

>>683677742
I like souls games but I don't care about hard boss fights, which is one of the reasons why I prefer the older titles. Rellana and especially Messmer were fun to fight, but I couldn't be arsed learning Gaius, Bayle and Radahn so I used the mimic tear to get those fights over more quickly

>>683677742
>I don't think people who play with summons actually enjoy the game. They just wasted their money on a game that they hate every second of, but they want to get it over with as fast as possible

Nah, that's bullshit. I enjoy the atmosphere, level design, character building, exploration, art design and even about 90% of bosses in Elden Ring because of the challenge. I unironically enjoy far more getting filtered by the boss for 1 hour and gradually improving until I beat it then iwnning easily the first try.
But when the boss is an exercise in frustration that encourages passivity like Consort Radahn I summon and go on to enjoy the rest of 98% of the game.

>>683670313
Dung eater, I got him in my current playthrough and he is a beast.

>>683679914
So you cheated. Got it. You've only got yourself to blame then.

>don’t use summons
>80% of spells and AoW become unusable
Pointless to play that way

>>683670313
Birdman and apparently he even has a grab attack for fighting NPCs

The only correct play style is to stack buffs for two minutes and one shot the boss you're fighting. Doing anything else means you are bad at maths and therefore have a low IQ.

>>683680306
>So you cheated.
Challenge run all you want, but it makes no sense how some anons have convinced themselves that something programmed into the game is "cheating".

Beat Halo or Half Life with just the pistol and pat yourself on the back but don't pretend it was "intended"

>>683669986
Is there a mod like seemless coop but instead it just lets you have a summon out at all times? I want to adventure with my bro.
Or better yet, is there some version of the pocketsouls ds3 mod but for Elden Ring?

>>683681389
I use a bleed+strength build and carry a shield for poking with seppuku ash of war on a bloodfiend fork with a mimic spirit ash just in case.

people need to stop pretending that this game is hard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAhkGaK-IKQ

>>683681715
I will not watch that for a myriad of reasons. It gives me secondhand embarrassment just seeing the thumbnail too.

>>683680732
>it makes no sense how some anons have convinced themselves that something programmed into the game is "cheating"
Cheats used to be programmed into games all the time, zoomzoom.

>>683681783
then why are you replying to me
the point stands regardless, you don't even have to level up or roll to beat the 'le hardest boss in the game'

>>683681229
https://www.nexusmods.com/eldenring/mods/336

>>683681837
>Cheats used to be programmed into games all the time
and nobody cared if you used them

>>683682068
So why are you so desperate not to acknowledge that you cheated?

>>683682112
because From never called summons cheats, why are you so desperate to make others adhere to your headcanon?

>>683680306
>>683681837
>>683682112

Anon, you are not an elite gamer for beating Elden Ring. Millions of Reddittors, did it too.
And about the game mechanics: Miyazaki himself agrees you should use all the mechanics you can to make the game easier: https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/i-absolutely-suck-at-video-games-hidetaka-miyazaki-discusses-how-he-prepped-for-elden-ring-shadow-of-the-erdtree/

But what does Miyazaki say abourt summons ? He surely admits you shouldn't use them, right ? NOPE: "Some players may look down on others who use summons or other items that can give you a helping hand against enemies. I've never felt any shame, after all, I'm trying to take down gods and demi-gods—shout out to my Mimic Tear for always being by my side. " LMAO, my playstyle is officially approved by Miyazaki himself !

By summoning Mimic Tear I literally follow Miyazaki artistic vision and play the game as he intended and as he plays it. You on the other hand make your game hard and miserable to play by sheer stupidity and stubborness, so you have become miserable yourself.

>>683679914
>But when the boss is an exercise in frustration that encourages passivity like Consort Radahn I summon and go on to enjoy the rest of 98% of the game.
Use the Sekiro tear and he immediately stops being a passive boss. Tho honestly I have no problem with people using summons against him — 2nd phase made my GPU chug so much beating him legit was bordering on impossible.

>>683684695
>Tho honestly I have no problem with people using summons against him
Why would you?
It's a 2 on 1
Radahn gets a free Empyrean on his back and I'm supposed to sit there like a tool?

>>683682860
>Millions of Reddittors, did it too.
By cheating.

Summons make bosses too easy, whilst they're a chore of spammy AOEs without them.

It's kind of the whole problem.

I don't get why redditors get so offended when you call spirit summons easy mode. It completely trivializes every encounter by splitting the aggro of the boss and getting a separate damage sources.
Even summoning other players is more honorable since at least the boss gets buffed a bit to scale with more players and it allows invasions, but spirit summons is just bitch-tier easy mode and even more so with mimic tear.

>>683685639
It's not easy mode. It's a cheat.
Like old school 'press a combination of buttons to spawn a tank' cheats.
Just because the devs encourage you to cheat, that doesn't make it not cheating.

>>683669986
>THE BOSSES ARE BALANCED AROUND SUMMONS
No, they are not. They break immediately when theres multiple targets, even the intended ones like Bayle.

>>683687528
What does it mean for the boss to “break” to you?

>>683687528
That's just FromSlop's AI. It has nothing to do with balance, it's just bad by default.

>>683676620
You're meant to block delayed/random attacks.
Roll through predictable and rhythmic attacks.
Jump over or away from slow attacks.
And guard counter attacks that aren't followed up by a new attack or attack chain.
Insert parries wherever you're comfortable if you've got gear on that can parry.

Most complaints appear to be from people who for some reason only engages with one aspect the defensive manoeuvrers the game gives you.
Your critique would hold more water if the game was just about rolling. But it isn't.

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I wonder if BS3 will have Spirit Ashes and Scadutree Fragments.

>>683669986
I'm playing a mage so I don't use summons. Summons lets me set up meteor and one shot the boss, without them I actually have to work out a window to use the big spells.

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>>683669986
okay, done.

>>683688116

None of this accounts for rolling through one attack and getting hit by the second, though?
And the dead-angles?
And the untelegraphed unblockable attacks?
And the moves where bosses turn invincible and blast an arena-wide AOE?
And attacks that damage you in the downed invulnerable state?
And the general lack of openings overall?
And the shitty camera?

Give the player 20 more defensive tools and it doesn't matter because the core mechanics aren't good.

Also I think it's really EPIC and COOL how none of what you said included Poise because From doesn't think players need functional poise in a game with 7-string comboes. Here's a bunch of filler mechanics but you still get staggered in vull Verdigris by everything. It's so boring.

>>683669986
Why would I use ashes or summon? I actually enjoy playing the game.

>>683688508
>None of this accounts for rolling through one attack and getting hit by the second, though?
But it does. Because you block instead.
>And the dead-angles?
Jump or block.
>And the untelegraphed unblockable attacks?
What? These don't exist.
>And the moves where bosses turn invincible and blast an arena-wide AOE?
If you're playing blind and you have no idea what's happing. Run, turn to the centre. And block. Then you can attempt to jump or roll for future attempts.
>And the general lack of openings overall?
But the openings are plenty. And with stance breaking and the bosses actually being susceptible to poise rules. You can create your own openings too.
>And the shitty camera?
Yeah it sucks. But it doesn't exactly change anything laid out above.

Why are fromdrones so obsessed about the way other people play?

>>683688908
Because this is a hardcore gaming community, and we want to kick casuals out.
We need to make sure their voice doesn't grow loud enough for Fromsoft to dumb down their games for them.

>>683689082
This, but also the people who will use items, ashes and summons that make the game significantly easier, but are obsessed with being validated for it. How they played the game should only matter to them, shouldn't obsess over of people's opinions.

>>683689082
>Hardcore
lmao

>>683689082
this so much

>>683688908
Because they are trying to figure out why only they had fun.

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>>683689082
>We need to make sure their voice doesn't grow loud enough for Fromsoft to dumb down their games for them.
Oh but we already have
Muhahahahahaha

>>683689463
True for Elden Ring. That's why we're far more aggressive towards casuals nowadays. We can't let this snowball.

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>>683669986
No, I don't think I will.

summons should only be used for mage builds. Mostly cause I genuinely believe that there is no way for a mage to beat saint of the bud without one. only consistent opening you have for spell casting is the butterfly explosion, and 99% of the time you're dodging butterfly's. Spirit summons for meele builds are pussy shit though.

>Midra
how am I supposed to deal with this fucking bullshit

>>683691329
Too much variety ruined Elden Ring. So instead of having a creative approach where a boss punishes builds equally. You either wipe the floor with a boss, or it wipes the floor with you.

>>683691721
Get scadutree blessings. Taking damage is practically unavoidable because of AOE madness bullshit. I was at scadu blessing level 13 before the fight started feeling fair and I managed to beat him. If you found him early just save him for later, he doesn't drop anything good anyway.

>>683691721
>>683691919
Nevermind, I just got him
Didn't realize he was so easy to guard parry

>>683692118
*guard counter
whatever it's called

>>683669986
>have an NPC beat the boss for you, learn nothing, don't get good, and basically don't have fun
vs
>get my shit pushed in by overtuned bosses with bullshit patterns because fagsoft designed them to be beaten with ganks
I wish there was an inbetween. Bosses should be balanced for beating them solo and spirit summons should increase their health and damage, not the other way around.

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>>683691780

That's not even the issue, actually.

The problem is every boss has an identical kit to deal with every problem, so they all feel the same.
If there was any cohesive design in regards to the boss roster, then some bosses would be absolutely bodied by mages, and some bosses would counter mages. Some bosses would counter heavy armor, whilst other bosses would be useless against it. Some bosses would make doding an ideal counter, whilst others would punish dodges but be super weak to block-based mechanics.
The summon system would then actually make sense because you would summon something that makes up for the deficiency you lack. Alternatively, Talismans would also have more impact and then be shuffled around accordingly.

The issue is it's an action game with RPG elements but those just end up being flavour rather than having pronounced pros and cons. Every boss is an action game boss that needs to have a solution to everything, so they counter everyone. That means if you're squishy and ranged, you get to enjoy the gapclosers and gigantic AoE attacks meant to also be strong enough to kill tanky
melee characters. It's exceedingly dull.

>>683691721
He's one of the easiest bosses of the DLC with romina though. Very slow and very punishable at the end of his moves

>>683669986
Summons make the game boring.
Beat it without them twice already, why should I start using them now?

>>683669986
peak midwit take

>>683693202
Yeah, I was just being too timid. Once I said fuck it and got in his face I discovered how easily dodged some of his moves are, and he's oh-so-easy to guard counter and stagger

It was still a close fight though
I probably need more scadutree fragments

>>683693418
His helicopter move can be completely dodged by crouching too. Most of his moves are really tame compared to what you see in the DLC

>>683693634
Yeah, it was just counter-intuitive to me to stay right in the face of a guy spewing frenzy flame everywhere
I was psyching myself out too much

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The bosses are designed around using a variety of weapons, spells, and skills to consistently deal damage to the boss while negating damage by rolling, jumping, strafing, blocking, parrying, or even low profiling - rewarding your aggression with a stance break that lets you control the momentum of the fight. Or you can choose to hide behind a greatshield and poke everything to death with a status-infused antspur rapier because you don't want to engage with the mechanics of the boss at all, that works too.

Anything else is cope.

>>683693895
your magic is WEAK, Carian metal man

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>>683693996
Do not insult the bubble

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>>683671369
>Endurechad mogs yet another AOE spam anime boss
Based.... So... Fucking zased...

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ITT

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>>683669986
no I'd rather bang my head against the wall and make 1000 pointless "attempts", and come crying to /v/ after each and every one claiming that it's the game's fault that I'm retarded

i will never use summons
i will make /v/ proud of me
i will beat the game

>>683669986
No you fucking pussy

>>683671369
>if you actually use your brain
Unfortunately 95% of players are incapable of this, and demand that the game be dumbed down to accommodate them instead. People seriously needed content creators to tell them how good defense is if you want to take less damage. Fucking DEFENSE. We're one step away from people needing to be told what the buttons on their controller do.

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>>683694254

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>>683669986
I did. I do it with Tiche or not at all
We ride together and die togther
Bad boys fo' life!

>>683693895
I'm honestly SHOCKED that the boss doesn't flair around in rhythm to the player's casts. Did they forget to set a flag or something?

>>683694254
>i will beat the game
no you won't lmao

>>683694476
Stuff like this I can get behind, but I wont use them myself

>>683669986
The only time I summoned in shadow of the erdtree was for bayle, and it made it so easy I immediately regretted it and loaded up a different save to do it properly.

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>>683688908
Because those people then proceed to very loudly repeat their stupid misconceptions in the Internet echo chamber of their choice (Reddit, Twitter, 4chan, YouTube, Twitch, etc.). Luckily FromSoft doesn't seem to pay attention to feedback too much, but any other developer would be bending over backwards to ruin their games to appeal to people who don't even enjoy playing them.

With the choice of spending 30 hours not playing the game, or 0 hours not playing the game, I know what I'll choose

>>683694556
It's mostly humanoid bosses that tend to dodge spells. Some minibosses like lions / the red wolves do as well, but big bosses just stand there and take it.

>>683694752
>Igon's summon sign is in the arena, not outside of it
>have to run right over there and summon him ASAP so you don't get ganked
>game actually brings up the dialogue box and makes you confirm your selection, costing you precious time
whose bright fucking idea was that one

>>683692924
Summons are not going to beat the game for you, not even Mimic or Tiche can do that.
The advantage of summons depends on the summon but the universal one is aggro management. It makes it easier which also gives you more windows to do things like heal or do big attacks. But if you don't do damage the summon won't last

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>>683694904
>big bosses just stand there and take it
Boy do they ever
Thanks for this one Master Sellen, you're the greatest

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>>683669986

>>683678427
So I can summon for phase 2 of Consort Radahn then?

>>683695005
>spam r1 on his back while summon takes aggro
>roll roll roll when you take aggro while waiting for the summon to take aggro back
>repeat
yawn

If you didn’t kill Radahn maidenless, you didn’t beat the game.

>bosses can be annoyingly difficult without summons
>bosses become laughable with summons
Why did from do this?

>>683694953
Narrative importance + balancing the boss.
Igon, Hornsent, and the various summons for Starscourge Radahn are inside the arena so they won't increase boss health. This is both because From you to summon them without making the boss harder. This is because From wants you to experience their narratives, but also because those bosses From likely felt the need to give the player more tools to handle them without the same drawbacks.
As for why Igon and Hornsent require you to click yes on the dialogue boss. lol who knows.

>playing through the base game and DLC again
>actively trying to strafe bosses / enemies because there's been a massive uptick in posts whining about elden ring being rollslop, bosses having 360 degree tracking, it being impossible to strafe attacks like in muh dark souls
>it works on nearly every enemy and boss
obviously not every single move in the game, but basically anything has at least 1 or 2 moves where you can just hold down sprint or even leisurely circle strafe them while locked on and they'll miss

how did people get so filtered?

>>683695234
They wanted to pander to ultra hardcore RL1 hitless tryhards and clueless casuals but nobody in-between it seems

>>683695174
Not what happens. You don't actually play with summons if you think this is the average experience.

>>683693029
I take back what I said, your version of the truth sounds more legit, so I'll adopt your opinion as my own.

>>683695383
Most of the people I've seen play with summons do this.

>>683695467
Most people play with massive strength weapons and jump R1 which in of itself casualizes a lot of the game.

>>683695519
There's no need for summons if you play like that.
My Str Guts Sword run was the easiest one and didn't even have to summon for Malenia.
Maybe in the DLC things changed, still finishing my run preps before starting it.

>>683671164
>Playing the game is wasting time
>but I'm going to do it anyways

Namefags are the worst and their opinions belong in the trash

In ds3 you had summonable npcs for almost every boss fight but they were well integrated into the story instead of "level up the shitty ghost that will fight for you in every boss battle"

>>683696470
There are plenty of those in ER, still. It's just that there's 99 bosses and you can summon NPCs for half a dozen of them.

>>683696470
They should've made spirit tuning a school of magic, instead of a reusable item.
Similar to that spell that summons skeletons that swing around wildly.

>>683669986
>USE SUMMONS YOU FUCKWITS
>THE DLC IS SCREAMING AT YOU TO USE SUMMONS
>THE BOSSES ARE BALANCED AROUND SUMMONS
>JUST USE THEM
>GODDAMN
Ah yes, the balance of the bosses instantly launching a hyper combo at you as soon as you enter the doorway in and then having gap-closers so that they are always on top of you so you can't summon.
>balanced around summons

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>>683669986
I did a tanky as fuck Mimic Tear setup on my first of the DLC. I found only about 70% all of the skadoodle fragment and spirit ash buffs
>I beat the hippo on my first try
>I beat Romina on my first try
>I beat Rellana on my 5-6th try
>I beat Bayle and all of the shitters on his way on my first try
>I only beat Radahn at about 100 attempts but the fault was mostly with me. When I only focused on tanking and dodging, the Mimic Tear consistently got Radahn down to about 40%-ish HP. I just had to figure out how to involve myself in their fight and hand the aggro back to the Mimic at the right time.
I had fun and I don't mind spending month mastering the new bosses.

>>683696837
Something wrent wrong because the point of bosses wasn't so you died for 15 hours straight.
They causes the disease just to sell us the cure in the form of spirit ashes.

>>683697264
To be fair, I'm very bad at these kind of games.
And imo the absolute final boss of the franchise in his prime + getting help from another demigod shouldn't be an easy challenge to beat. It should be balanced to be very hard.
Granted, some of Radahn's roll catches and combo ending fakeouts are not fair at all. They could have made it more of a balanced fight while maintaining the high difficulty by cutting some of those out.

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>>683670313
these guys are lunatics

>>683670313
The ruined forge golem summon is an amazing tank. It's good at taking the aggro too.

Playing Elden Ring with summons is basically playing a shmup with infinite bombs and saying that you actually beat it. Yeah, you finished the game, but instead of developing your skills to beat the enemies, you wiped them out with the press of a button because you're a faggot.

Note: okay, it may be an exaggerated comparison because most summons die before the boss even if you're playing right, but the analogy is 100% valid in the case of Mimic Tear.

>>683699014
I paid $100 for the game and dlc I'm just gonna beat the game with things that are in the game.

>>683694790
I kinda feel that way with the new souls fanfase,
nothing in darksouls/demon souls/bloodborne is as hard as Friede/Malenia/Messmer

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You're shit at the game and beat it on easy difficulty (summons/ashes)

>"I BEAT THE GAME"
>"I BEAT THE GAME"
>"I BEAT THE GAME"
>"ashes are in the game so I NEEDED to use them okay?"

Actually pathetic as fuck lmao

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I just did an invasion to see why when I try to get summoned as a yellow I keep getting activity error into forced offline and what the hell, I got summoned into a world where they were super far so I used a resummon finger to spawn somewhere closer, and I spawned INSIDE the boss arena while they were doing the boss.
I only noticed after I killed the host, kek.

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Don't care what anyone says, I'll keep summoning da boiz. We beat the game.

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>>683693895
Based bubble bro

>>683688908
>>683689082
>>683694790
>>683700062
It's bizarre, because back in Demon's/Dark Souls the community would actively encourage cheese and help each other beat the game (jolly cooperation, etc). Then Prepare to Die brought in the PC audience and everything went to shit.

>>683669986
>Don't use summons
>Don't use spirits
>Don't use greatshields
>Don't use 'OP' spells
>Don't use scadu fragments
>Don't respec

>"WTF THIS IS TOO HARD THIS GAME IS BULLSHIT POORLY DESIGNED SLOP!"
I get this a lot. I do think there are some issues, like how you can only target Bayle's head or Radahn's attacks having their own attacks but still.

>>683695034
This spell was absolutely hilarious on Placidusax.

>>683669986
but summons increase the bosses' health and defense making the fight harder

Daily reminder that if you use:
>weapons
>armor
>talismans
>consumables
>level up
>summon
You didn't beat the game.

>>683670313
The knight dudes from the DLC are good. Taylew is very good at tanking and can be healed very easily too (has low HP but extremely high damage negation, it's easy to fill his HP bar but it goes down slowly). The bird guy and hornsent warrior guy from the DLC are good too.

>>683699014
Nah that's completely inaccurate, infinite bombs in shmups are usually different game modes and / or difficulty levels. ER has no different game modes and no difficulty levels, everything that's in the game is meant to be used so just take your pick.

>>683701561
Yeah it's weird as fuck. In every other game people try to figure it out, get excited when they find good items, try to learn how to build strong characters and so on. In ER it's like
>wow I found this cool item and it's good too!
>I figured out this effective build which works well!
>NO STOP REEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE IT STOP YOU DID NOT BEAT THE GAME STOP STOP STOP YOU DID NOT BEAT THE GAME YOU DID NOT BEAT THE GAME YOU DID NOT BEAT THE GAME YOU DID NOT BEAT THE GAME
I have no idea why this game attracts such autismal idiots.

>>683669986
Yes I used my mimic tear a lot in the DLC. I used it almost always whenever fighting mobs in the open world, I used it to most returning bosses from the base game, I used it on the two red bears (I hate the rune bear and I would not hesitate to use it on them if I can so there's no way I would not use it on the red bears), and I used it on all the ghostflame dragons aside from the one in gravesite.

Why do they keep releasing dark souls and changing the name

>>683670886
I still remember my first playthrough of dark souls 1 with full havel set. You really had to do nothing but mash R1

>>683694348
The reason people disregarded defensive stats at launch is that defense/absorption made very little difference in Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3.

>>683680306
>play skyrim
>open console and type "tgm"
>literally no one batting an eye
>play souls games
>use an actual in game mechanics
>retards like u lose their fucking marbles

>>683670313
Horned Warrior and Taylew are chads, Taylew is tankier but Horned Warrior is quicker and does more damage
Dung Eater is tanky as fuck
Omenkiller Rollo goes hard as hell and is super agressive but isn't as unstaggerable as Horned Warrior
Jolan and Anna are a DEXfag bleed-specific build Mimic Tear with the bonus of there being two of them and both being aggressive as fuck, they literally rape anything capable of bleeding

>>683670637
Isn't that pretty much the same with sorceries? You get Carian Slicer very early on, which is like the best sorcery in the game when it comes to FP per damage

>>683669986
When the "intentional way" to beat a fight is to break the AI and gain a cheap win, there's a problem.

>>683704296
And you call the AI broken despite the fact it is obviously working as intended?

>>683701561
Back in those days the bosses were just part of the level and were often meant to be defeated using strategy or a gimmick (the adventurer playstyle). These retards infested the fanbase because From's boss design swerved into pure slugmatches with aggressive crackhead bosses that you're just supposed to ROLL 1000 times until you "master" them. I blame Bloodborne rather than PtD.

>>683701561
It's all because of spirit summons. None of this ebola-tier discourse would've happened, if they didn't add easy mode.
Miyazaki was right all along. Difficulty options do not belong in souls games.

>>683704851
Character and build options are not difficulty modes unless you want to make the entire concept meaningless

>>683682860
>"Some players may look down on others who use summons or other items that can give you a helping hand against enemies. I've never felt any shame, after all, I'm trying to take down gods and demi-gods—shout out to my Mimic Tear for always being by my side.
That's the journalist

If you healed in any way, you didn't beat the game. You are supposed to do stuff on one health bar between graces.

>>683705195
They're not character, and build options.
It's just 'press to halve aggro'. Which effectively makes any boss half as difficult.

>>683705564
You’re just being reductive in describing a character option

>>683704851
No it isn't, because back when this franchise was young you didn't have this "you didn't beat the game" shit when you could summon sunbros, and the few people that did make that claim were drowned out by people having fun helping each other.

>Miyazaki was right all along.

The same Miyazaki that says he uses ALL the options at his disposal to beat Elden Ring? Including spirit ashes?

>>683703543
They disregard defensive stats at launch because armor by itself does nothing and buff stacking is nonsense game design. NO sane player would ever put on the goat set, see their character still getting staggered by rats and their HP chunked by everything, and think to themselves "the problem must be that I haven't equipped the relevant magical rings and applied multiple temporary buffs via spells and potions".

>>683669986
no

>>683706153
To summon your 'sunbros', you had to use a rare resource, and revive yourself. So it was only a last-resort thing.
In Elden Ring, summons cost a bit of FP, and you can use them for 1000000 attempts in a row without running out.
It's not the same.
And yes, same guy. What's your point?

>>683705897
reddit

>THE GAME IS BALANCED AROUND SPIRIT ASHES BRO USES SPIRIT ASHES!!

Ok but why do I have to play summoner? Why can't I THE PLAYER have a cool moveset similar to enemies for once? The only From game that allows players to actually have cool moves that makes them feel cook is Sekiro. Its annoying

>>683670313
i personally think dung eater is stronger than mimic tear

>>683706996
The player does have a cool moveset, though

>Summon Ansbach and Thiollier to fight Radahn to see what they say
>They're fucking worhtless and die before even half into phase 1 and now Radhan has a million gorillion HP

>>683669986
I gotta be honest, summons just throw me off most of the time. Few of them aren't jobbers, and trying to sneak up on the boss while it's distracted often gets me hit by a sudden aoe or abrupt shift in target. Boss is more predictable without. I made an exception for Leda's ganksquad though, since I didn't finish Thioller's retarded quest. I chose the hornsent inquisitors since it seemed fitting, though maybe I'll try that Messmer guy who keeps invading you next time so it feels more like an npc cooperator.

>>683706996
Some weapons really do not faithfully get represented once you are the one holding them, Grafted Dragon and the Dragon Talon hammer are a good example, what's more annoying is that if you look up mods that change those weapons to be cooler they always go overboard and miss the point.

>>683670016
You'd still get your ass beat in pvp by players that used summons. So not impressive.

>>683707226
mimic tear with heal from afar, and then you go face to face with the boss.
Foolproof.

>>683706916
Why the fuck are you people pretending an AI controlled imp is the same as a player

>>683699014
>Playing Elden Ring with summons is basically playing a shmup with infinite bombs
Sure, if at the very first boss an NPC flew on screen and gave you the ability to temporarily use Infinite Bombs, encouraged you to use it in dialogue, and then in every subsequent boss fight there was an icon that appeared at the bottom of the screen that said "Activate Infinite Bomb-Mode"
sure it's basically the same

I don't know why people have such a hard time just accepting that the game expects you to at least experiment with the Summon Ashes. It gives you every incentive to do so, it guides you in that direction very pointedly.

Summoning is not "easy mode", it's normal mode
NOT Summoning is hard mode

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>>683677742
>I don't think people who play with summons actually enjoy the game. They just wasted their money on a game that they hate every second of, but they want to get it over with as fast as possible
the boss fights are a small fraction of these games for me
I spent over 120 hours on my first elden ring playthrough and I rarely took more than half a dozen tries on a boss; I beat many of them on the first or second try
but hey, enjoy doing whatever you do with these games

>>683701992
That's exactly the boss I was thinking of as I posted
I mean it's just absurd what it does to him

>>683707706
I'm saying it's not the same. What do you mean?

>>683707721
Because it makes the game fucking unfun as shit.

>>683703280
I remember I had the knight set with a shield and the halberd and I just poked everything to death
thought I was real hot shit

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I summon because I like to use spells and ashes of war that are mostly useless if you're being targeted because Fromsoft did not think to actually test them in a combat scenario.

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>>683707681
>pvp

>>683707959
>goes into detail saying a Sunbro costs more resources than a spirit ash
>just entirely ignore that that’s by design since spirit ashes do minimal damage

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I only use summons when it's a gank boss fight like the triple rot crystalians in Caelid or the double Crucible Knight.

>>683708635
>says some bullshit that relates to nothing
>expects a serious response

>>683708273
OK but that doesn't impact the truth of what I'm saying
The game does expect you to summon
wether that's good or bad is not relevant to the fact that that's true

>>683677742
>I don't think people who play with summons actually enjoy the game.
lmao
I think getting stuck on bosses and getting wrecked over and over for who knows how many attempts must have clouded your judgement or something. Even if somebody hates the bosses in this game, the time you spend on them is probably not even 10% of total play time - assuming you don't struggle with them. Boss fights are a minor part of the game, even if you hate a minor part there's still the vast majority of the game left to love.

I can't even imagine how you end up with such a twisted and lopsided view of the game, unless you really did get dumpstered over and over and over again by bosses to the point where that was the main time sink in your playthrough rather than being a minor part.

I have no problem with bosses being hyper-aggressive but you need to let the player get in on that action too
Bloodborne understood this

>>683709056
>bullshit that relates to nothing
Anon you are seriously retarded
Just because they are both mechanics that let you summon a separate entity doesn’t mean they’re the same, spirit ashes offer support damage and some aggro management. A player summon can beat the boss for you unassisted.

>>683709814
>Anon
Stopped reading there. Don't talk to me like you're my friend. Kys.

>>683670139
Not true at all. Elden Ring bosses can switch targets on the fly and have more AOE attacks than ever before in a souls game.

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I love my team. Bros for life

>>683670139
The dlc bosses have very obviously been tweaked to prioritize you over your summons now.

So far in DLC I summoned about 20 seconds into Divine Beast Dancing Lion. As soon as he started going airborne, flying behind me, causing camera to clip his model, etc., I determined that this is retarded untested bullshit not worth spending any time on.

>>683670854
Radahn isn't the only boss with NPC summons. Margit, Morgott, Godrick, and several other bosses allow you to summon NPCs.

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>>683669986
Grug forgot bell in pocket. Grug know only big unga bunga!

>>683670897
>bosses are not designed with multiplayer in mind
>which is why bosses have more health in multiplayer

>>683676869
I don't see how they could possibly make the next souls-ish game more difficult then the DLC here without giving the player another major defensive option or buffing them in some way.

>>683670110
Gigabased
Spirit ashes/summons are just fucking retarded

>>683711389
But Radahn's don't increase his health since its part of the fight's gimmick.

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>>683684695
>It's a 2 on 1
>he had to summon for the retard horde
lmao

>>683669986
It's funny because only like a handful of Spirit Summons are even that good enough to solo the boss and/or not get killed almost immediately.

>>683698640
never worked for me
they always get clapped

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>>683695969
I'm afraid your little brain won't be able to process my flawless argument. So you have to summarise wrong message to make yourself feel good. This is ordinary people who think of themselves as special. Just ordinary anonymous with ordinary tastes and ordinary intelligence.
You can't accept that name user like me beat all of you . And your "not using spirit" in elden ring is not special at all because even me who love using spirit can did the same .I did it to mock all of you. Like the doctor who make himself ill to understand your sickness. I never said playing game is wasted of time. I said playing without using spirit is wasted of time on remember boss patterns. It's just another way to torture yourself in hope you will look better than anyone.

>>683709389
they think everything between boss fights is filler
show them a webm of dark souls 2 enemies peeling a player off the fog door and they start foaming at the mouth

>>683711892
Literally just bring back Bloodborne movement
Enough rolling, let me step

>>683712384
they're basically worthless if the boss has any kind of element or AOE that doesn't just hit from the front

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i fucking love this stupid sunflower its so comical and hits like a truck

>>683685368
You can only summon Latenna since she's the only summon without mobility
To make it fair.

>>683713872
Only if she could ride on my back

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>>683669986
Summons remove like 70% of all boss mechanics.

You quite literally didn't beat the game if you used them. You played a different game.

>>683711892
I really think they should add more defensive options, ideally multiple variants depending on what you spec into or something. DEXfags can have enhanced rolls or sidesteps or whatever, deflects and so on, STRfags effectively already have their fuckhuge shields, INTfags should get some sort of magic shield / barrier spells, or a "blink" type teleport spell that's actually good and somehow usable without manual scrolling through 10 spell slots, or wards on the ground or who knows what else, hell maybe even minion summons, FTHfags should also get something thematic that goes beyond a buff which gives you some extra passive protection, though I'm not sure exactly what, maybe just a reskin of some spells would work since they're both magic effectively.

Making every single build just roll roll roll jump unless you spec for shields is getting kind of lackluster, there needs to be more variety and when you spec differently you should get different options which fit the build and ideally evolve with your character power in some way, it's super lame that - once again unless you spec for greatshields - your core defensive options are basically the same from beginning to end and no matter what you build your character into.

>>683669986
>>683670016
i just started the base game and im at atlus plateau and ive yet to figure out how to even use summons, spells or incantations. so ill just roll without them since i have no idea how they work.

>>683717015
You might be a little slow.

>>683717176
prob but i dont really see a need for them yet. my wep is strong enough ive only struggled with the void dude.

>just took down Messmer in only 3 tries with my Mimic Tear
Yeah
OK
maybe they are kinda busted

>>683717494
Once you get to a snow area you might consider it.
For summons since you missed the npc that can give it to you, you can buy a bell from the twin maiden husk merchant at the roundtable. It's a key item but it lets you equip any summon you picked up into your usable items bar, they use FP and stronger ones require more FP to use.

>>683669986
Ash summons are a free DPS increase unlike past games. Which is why I always use them in ER unlike past games. I was never againts using summons before, they just slowed me down.

Summons are only necessary as a caster

As in, a cloth wearer should not ever be a close quarters combatant

>>683717572
>Fight Bayle 20 times, and only manage to take out 15% of his health each attempt
>Decide to summon Igon
>Beat him that same try
Miyazaki wanted us to use cheats. I don't get it. It's such a dumbass design choice.