The great debate.
ewalanczossharp
N64 vs PS1
>Raycasting enginesFiltering off.>Polygonal enginesFiltering on.Simple as.
I prefer right.
>>683708686idTech 2 versus Unreal Engine 1
>>683708694every pre 2000 game looks better without texture filtering if you use current monitors/resolutions. The only scenario where you would prefer texture filtering is with a CRT monitor of the time in low resolution.
I am torn between designing my assets with texture filtering off versus on in mind because sometimes it feels it can feel out of place if you have more organic looking meshes as opposed to voxel/pixelshit. At the same time, the crisp look is too good sometimes.
>>683708487Upscale it with AI
>>683708903your sister vs your mom
>>683709640I wish I had a sister
>>683708487Nearest+CRT shader. If some pixel shit doesn't offer even a rudimentary CRT filter I'm not even going to bother with it. It's 2024 it should be fucking standard.
>>683708487Right
>>683708487for me it's nearest with glasses off
>>683709771You weren't even sentient when CRTs were common.
>>683709252I don't think it looks as good here in Half-Life At the same time to me it just feels a bit weird when you have the big pixels around organically sculpted meshes and monsters
>>683710724You're not sentient now so does that change anything?
>>683708487filtered low-res textures look like shit
>>683708487!
>>683710724You can think whatever you like, if that's how you cope. I don't have anything to prove to you.
>>683708487consider the following
The visible pixel edges detract from the visuals in Half-Life. There's a reason it defaults to bilinear when using hardware acceleration.
I turn off whatever supported AA is ingame and just force SSAA. I get so mad when AA can't be turned off.
>>683709252Problem with filtering on modern hardware is you're taking shit resolution, running filtering on that, then stretching the filtered result across many pixels when actually running the game.There should be supersampled filtering. Basically integer scale 4x or 9x the initial image then filter that giving you filtering without sacrificing sharpness
>>683711412what about unreal it even uses detail textures sometimes
>>683708487nearest works good on 2d games
linear vs cubic vs closest in blender
>>683711931detail textures are essentially a high texel density overlay so the base texture acts similarly to those low res n64 textures, just providing some base colors essentially so I'd say filtered is better in those cases. Without them though, definitely unfiltered.
>>683711412I imagine you want better texel density on characters especially.
lanczos
Unreal had texture filtering in 1995 already
>>683708487the real answer is there is no answer. depending on the resolution of the texture, how the texture is used, and the resolution of the game, filtering can look better or worse. both of them can be used as an artistic choice and both of them can be a detriment to the art.
>>683708686sex vs sex
no texture filtering, no anti aliasingsimple as
>>683708487There is another.
>>683708487Very few games look good in nearest. It needs a certain attention to detail and care that most games just don't have.
>>683714709>turning everything into a melted oil paintingHow disgusting.
>>683714709>am I eating jelly?>no, I am masonry jelly
>>683708487I chose the impossible.I choseGL_NEAREST_MIPMAP_LINEARgl_rounddown 0
>>683714709
>>683711743Left looks way better. Most 3d games were designed to run with filtering. Pretty much if the game supports it natively you're expected to have it on.>>683713181Problem with that shot is that the textures don't tile properly. Looks like they made the stairs by stacking cubes.>>683714709Why anyone does that I will never understand. Whenever I see one of those """HD""" texture packs I'm not sure if I should laugh, cry or vomit.
>>683708487It weirds me out how everyone thought that filtering looked good and raw pixels were le ugly in the 90s and early 00s but now the general opinion has completely flipped-flopped.
>>683715627You shouldn't try to sound smart when it's so obvious you don't know what the shit you're talking about. What are you, a redditor?stacking cubes?my nigga that's Unreal Engine 1, that's BSP
>>683708487In practice right looks better. Filtering is like motion blur, it can make for sick screenshots but when you're actually playing a video game it just gets in the way and makes everything look worse.
>>683712392 What’s the use case for cubic? its way too blurry
>>683716348>What’s the use case for cubicI forgot desuSomething to do with displacements/normal maps I think
>>683708487Nearest, every time. I even play HL1 with nearest.
>>683716419Oh so for data, not for colors? Makes sense I guess?
>>683708487
>>683708487more importantly how do we fix the audio problems on games that relied on audio cardshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FYuMQ5M1cU
>>683716949There's an EAX emulator that uses OpenAL with DSOAL. There's a github for it somewhere.Audio emulation has gained way more traction over the last few years. Like Munt, that emulates Roland MIDI devices, like the MT-32.
>>683716079>that's BSPThey still fucked up the tiling.
>>683708487The irony with nearest is that it looks properly filtered when viewed from the farthest.
To this this day I still don't comprehend Anti-Aliasing and just end up picking the last option in the settings / last option before "Off" of it loops. Is there a definitive option or a quick rundown on what exactly is being offered.
>>683716949Trueaudio died for your sins because gamers don't actually care how games sound, only what they look like.
>>683716949>those crowbar swing echoes in big rooms with EAX
>>683716949audio cards are cheap
>>683716036Different times. Before really getting hardware-accelerated 3D rendering, we still had some 3D games which just did software rendering (on the CPU) and these produced the "chunky pixels" 3D aesthetic because the rendering resolution was low and they couldn't afford texture filtering, both for performance reasons. When we finally got decent 3D acceleration (the Voodoo I guess), these new devices could suddenly actually do texture filtering and maybe even run at higher res (like 640x480 instead of software which was often like 320x200 or something in DOS games), so this was basically the new / impressive thing compared to the chunky pixels of old.Graphics then progressed and we got used to higher res textures, so at this point the extreme blur of the earlier 3D years just looks awful compared to the sharp chunky pixel style of software rendering. Blur is just ugly as fuck in general.
>>683709252>only scenario where you would prefer texture filtering is with the thing it was designed for and all the art was designed around
>>683717350Unfortunately, it depends on the game. Generally speaking, it should be something as follows:>MSAAOl' reliable. Not used much anymore because it doesn't work with modern rendering techniques. Just crank it up to max if it's the only option.>SSAABasically downsampling. Renders the picture at a larger resolution, then scales it down to your monitor size. Provides objectively best results, but is also extremely taxing on performance, so rarely provided out-of-the-box.>FXAAPost-processing AA. Looks like garbage, only introduces shimmering.>SMAASlightly better post-processing AA.>TAAPost-processing AA that uses data from different frames to smoothen the picture. Removes jaggies well, but also makes everything look blurry as shit and introduces ghosting.>DLAAAIslop postprocessing AA. The best option for modern games as of now, but still has some ghosting and blurryness.
whichever is more performant and cheapest, looks don't matter
>>683718314For me it is TXAA.
>>683717350They all have their own ups and downs. If the game supports it, do supersampling/renderscale or whatever it might be called in a given game. It's when it allows you to set the render resolution separately (sometimes done in % sometimes it just lets you pick a second resolution). For example if you have a 1080p monitor and would like to run the game at that and then you set render scale to 4k with AA turned off. Looks way better than any AA algorithm in my opinion. I think nvidia drivers support this nowadays but last I tried it was a bit janky to use. Maybe it's gotten better. I'd try it but my nvidia control panel doesn't open for some reason..
>>683708487Should combine both.
>pixel art texturenearest>photo texturelinear
>>683708487Depends on character model and enemiesIf character model are high res then left look awful, kinda like how old games looks very ugly on emulator max graphical settings
Choosing nearest neighbor depends on the artstyle, but I would never choose bilinear over other more advanced upscaling methods.
>>683719214Ugly games look ugly no matter what. There are a lot of old 3d games that look amazing when emulated at a modern res. It's mostly ps1 games where it doesn't work because they weren't designed for it but even those look better when ran in higher res and enabling the fixes for texture warping and vertex jitter.
>>683719214They look even uglier in low res + the same blur, if the game is that ugly then there's not much you can do. Maybe play it on a real CRT since those have some blur effectively built into the technology, plus TVs or old ones are less detailed in a way that's usually less offensive to the eyes.
bump
Bilinear filtering is fucking AIDS
>>683709771Are crts standard in 2024? No.Cope.
>>683709252>>683711412>Muh chronological cutoffIt's far less vague than that.If a game uses a global 8-bit palette, texture filtering is better left off.However, anything higher than this can facilitate smooth texture gradients, and nearest gets in the way of that.
>>683719214>If character model are high res then left look awfulAre you talking about 3d poly characters?
GoldSrc is kino with bilinear. You'd have to be a revisionist zoomer to think otherwise.
>>683719791https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5663iDtGuQ
>>683719791fxaa.png
>>683723485
>>683714709I improved the game enjoy
>>683716949OpenAL Soft just werks.
>>683723774Unironically yes.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r_-ZJjtmKo
>>683712392what is the vidya engine equivalent of these
counterpoint: low poly models with low res textures but subdivided with tessellation to appear high-poly but with low-res filtered textures so now it looks like clay or paper
>>683708487Pixelated only looks good at very specific not too close not too far distances and with textures designed for it. Most games from Half-Life and up were using digitized photos for texture.
>>683729239>Most games from Half-Life and up were using digitized photos for texture.I do my low poly models in the same fashion a lot of the time and I usually prefer to use texture filtering for some of them as a result especially when I'm not hand painting them. Especially cause a lot of the models end up being right in the players face, I find that unfiltered can be a bit janky at close distances on high resolution video outputs particularly on character models.
>>683714709Right should look the way it does but be 8x bigger
>>683728391do you have an example of a game that does this?
>>683730597
4x scale then nearest. Get majority of the 'original' art maintained, and mipmaps don't alias as hard.
>>683708487Nearest with scanlines
>>683708487I think it's funny how early 3D games used texture filtering as the latest technology, but now it's looks like shit and I'd rather have nice clean pixel textures.
>>683708487Depends on the look you're trying to go for as a game developer.
>>683725161Bethesda hire this man
>>683711896you can do that with driver settings. It's what I did to KotOR to have it at 1440p without microscopic menus and text.
>>683732120
seams suck
>>683730828how the fuck did I not know about this
>>683735828That seems like a problem with the bilinear implementation.
