Why won't Japanese developers admit to ripping off Ultima?
>>683732384How the fuck is a trial or court unfamiliar to most japs?This was the fucking 90s
>>683732384It's kinda sad how Ultima has been memoryholed despite being so influential. EA's fault for destroying the franchise I guess.
what happened in muttland that anti-japan propaganda keeps getting spammed more than usual?
>ripping offWhy is it "inspired by" only when Westerners "rip off" Ultima?
>>683732384Oh shut the fuck up Spoony. Nobody gives a fuck about your shitty, forgotten Ultima series, while Japanese RPG games dominate the genre.
>>683732384>Ultima 7-2Imagine thinking that Ultima was in any way at all relevant at that point. Early Ultimas were influential but they were quickly overtaken by the games they influenced. Ultima 5 came out after FF1 and DQ3, and just look at it. At that point Ultima was influencing nothing
>>683732645The past few months proved westoids only care about integrity when they can be racist against japan to please their kike masters.
>>683732645It's an homage if I like it, otherwise it's plagiarism.
>>683732527>EA's fault for destroying the franchiseAnd it wasn't the last one they destroyed.
>>683732384>theres a problem with this>at the time, games didnt revolve around wordsmy first playthrough of ff6 was like 70 hours in 199x, most of that time was spent reading dialog. wtf is this faggot talking about. all square games of the 90s were like this.>>683732529jews are buying up anime studios and importing forigners to rape the japanese. the jews told the jap boomers they need more workers to pay taxes so they can pay their own pensions, the same kike lie they told american boomers in the 90s.
>>683732384It wouldnt be the first thing they ripped off and it wont be the last
>>683732384>JRPGs of this time (note: 1 year after FFVI) do not revolve around 'words'Nobody tell him>Why would the Japanese care about American moviesMight as well ask why non-Japanese weebs exist or why a year ago the world went crazy over Squid GameIt's pretty funny seeing the world's last remaining Ultima fan coping when trying to keep his franchise relevant
>>683732527It wasn't influential. It was a rip-off of D&D. Dragon Quest was influenced it, and then the rest of the industry was influenced by Dragon Quest. Ultima is a big nothingburger only hyped up by people who Spoony who don't play console games.
>>683732952
>>683732384are you also called out in ultima's court scene for decisions the player had to actively make themselves?because that's what most people consider so memorable about chrono trigger's court scene
>>683732384They 1000% ripped off Ultima 1-3 but I think japs stopped caring after that.
>>683732527this schizo shit is definitely not helping the case that it was influential
>>683732384>A Japanese person could never watch or appreciate an American movie>But they could have played and appreciated an American video gameIt's hard to fathom how retarded you have to be to work as a games journalist.
What's Lord British up to lately
>>683732384whoever wrote this is a fucking retard.
>>683733118>It wasn't influentialKek, yes it was you retarded sawed-off twerp. Whether Dragon quest or FF or Chrono trigger stole from it, does not matter. Japs cannot innovate anyway, just like the rest of bug races.
>>683733682Being old
>>683733118nta but nah, a lot of things ripped it off in subtle ways. Xanadu was heavily ripping of Ultima 3, and then Sorcerian and Zelda 2 ripped Xanadu off while dropping a lot of the Ultima 3 influence.
>>683733849To be fair lord "British" didn't innovate shit either since PLATO games did pretty much everything he did in Ultima earlier. He just stole from them and made it popular. So did Wizardry. The real innovators were some unnamed college kids, forgotten by history
>>683732384>Sean MalstromThe same guy that claimed that Mario Wonder 'bombed' because... it went on sale?
>"When I played Chrono Trigger the first time in 2000 and got to the court scene, my reaction was, “WTF is this Serpent Isle knockoff?” ">" “Are you trying to attack the developers of Chrono Trigger?” No. They should be celebrated for their cleverness and craftsmanship. What I am saying is that they shouldn’t be worshipped as gods. Every game generation a new batch of kids thinks the current games are ‘amazing’ and ‘original’ while they actually stand on the shoulders of giants."lmao this retard
Ultima 7 part 2? Serious nigger? I think the Japs would be way more likely to have seen A few good men than play the 7th entry in a game. Did Capcom directors play that too when making Phoenix Wright?
Lord British is an overrated hack.He's not just a has-been.He was never a good game developer.Ultima always sucked balls.And, of course niggers tongue my anus.
>visit this retard's blog>this is literally the first thing I seeNot even an American but it's funny how he seems to get everything wrong. Nice "critic".
>>683734519Did it even get a JP release?
Ultima is shit. I guess that explains certain things
>>683734694it did apparently in 94. Still pretty unlikely.
>>683732384The idea that a 4-time Academy Award winning film INCLUDING BEST PICTURE that grossed 100 million USD internationally couldn't have possibly influenced the Chrono Trigger developers but a sequel to a game that sold maybe 200,000 copies total was something they directly "ripped off" is laughable. What's the theory of mind here? That Japanese people don't watch American movies? Are you fucking stupid? Almost everyone on the planet watches American movies and Japanese culture in particular is heavily influenced by it. The Daicon IV Trailer has a Darth Vader fight in it, Kojima is basically the video game equivalent of Quentin Tarantino, and anyone who watches 80s anime will see the western action film influence in stuff like Gunsmith Cats or the literal D&D campaign playing out in Record of Lodoss War. Like yeah, Ultima inspired Dragon Quest but it was far from the only game that JRPGs drew from (Wizardry is arguably a much larger influence) but by the time of Chrono Trigger the Japanese industry was already standing on it's own.
>>683732384Pretty much all jap media in general is just premises and styles they directly ripped off from the west, but nobody ever wants to admit it.
>>683733118>and then the rest of the industry was influenced by Dragon QuestMegaTen was not influenced by it tho
Obsessed
>>683733118I'd say Wizardry is the most influential Western RPG in Japan.
>>683732384I doubt thisBut then again Horii and Sakaguchi were huge nerds soo...But I see no reason to doubt Sakaguchi’s wordsWe know that for example Horii is a fan of time travel and movies like Back to the Future and series like The Time Tunnel
>>683734930In that case the timeline doesn't line up. Chrono Trigger started development in early 1993, and the time travel elements were a big part of that early development period so they wouldn't have been able to play Ultima 7 Part 2 to be inspired by it even if that had been the case. They've also said that the plot was essentially finished within the first year of development. It's likely that these longer scripted scenarios, like the trial, were completed before the JP release of Ultima 7 part 2. I suppose it's theoretically possible that the writers played an unofficial translation before hand but that seems like a reach. Cross cultural importing in 1993 was extremely difficult compared to the modern age. Anime fans for example often could only watch subtitled Japanese releases on masse at conventions, or they could import them for a huge premium for personal viewing. More obscure stuff was almost impossible to get, and the same likely holds true for Japan.
I think Chrono Trigger must've fucked his mom or something
>>683735507>We know that for example Horii is a fan of time travel and movies like Back to the Future and series like The Time TunnelMore than this, the idea of time travel leading to a dark future where humanity is extinct is extremely common, to the point of being the main setup for The Time Machine, the original time travel story. Terminator is probably the most famous modern example, but it's probably easier to write a list of all the time travel stories that DON'T involve some kind of horrible future that the main characters work to prevent.>>683735872This comparison also does a serious disservice to Ultima 2's story as well. It's nothing ground breaking, but Minax as a villain has a bit more substance to her than a "Big baddie at the end of time". Also, minor point, but she's a the ORIGIN of time. Specifically because she wanted to avoid being killed the same way the boss of the first game was.
>>683732384I am tempted to believe they actually didn't directly rip off Ultima, but more because Japs have otherwise been extremely forthwith about how they otherwise do rip off Western RPGs wholesale. Like the entirely JRPG genre basically exists as a fan work for Wizardry. Hell, a sizeable chunk of really good Japanese media in general comes from them ripping off Western horror, Hollywood movies, sci-fi novels, and so on, and they don't exactly hide it. It's why stuff like Fatal Frame stands out, when the vast majority of the survival horror genre up to that point is just Western horror imagery. If they did rip off Ultima, they would've just said it.It's funny how it's something weebs don't like to admit either, which is weird because they could easily just go>it was good but it took Japan to work on it to make it greatbut I guess the idea of ANY western "poisoning" really makes them shit blood
>>683735475>July 20th, 2024One thing I've noticed about a lot of big JRPG critics is that they seem to be frozen in time. Ultima 1 is 43 years old at this point. If you started playing the first game at 5 years old (Target audience was likely teenagers) you'd be 48. It's a storied series, but it's gone and in 2020 Lord British himself said that EA is going to keep it dead. Not that you should never play old games but honestly, take a look back at Ultima 1. I don't want to say it's clunky but looks like this, and even by the time of Ultima 7 it doesn't look (Or sound) half as good as Chrono Trigger. The series as a whole carries with it a lot of the unrefined ambition and lack of creative restraint that characterized early 1980s development houses. Lord British (Both the character and the real life person) is emblematic of this. It's a blatant developer self-insert based on Richard Garriot's Society for Creative Anachronism character. I like the SCA, and I've been to their events a few times, but if you're trying to tell a serious story don't make yourself the noble king. Like a lot of 80s games, there's so much about it that also loves to say "I dunno, CAN you?" whenever you ask if you can go to the bathroom. Sierra adventure games were also notorious for this, taking an almost sadistic pleasure in killing the character for minor mistakes.By contrast, a lot of JRPGs have much more professionalism. Chrono Trigger was also developed by a bunch of weird nerds, but there's no major characters based off the director. The games have a level of refinement that just can't be found in the more experimental, personality driven games like Ultima. That's not to say Ultima sucks, it's worth playing, but for different reasons.Also, the idea that anyone who does an idea first owns it forever is a laughable understanding of the creative process. Ultima 1 has fucking TIE fighters in it.
>>683732384>how did you come up with the idea for a trial, something unfamiliar to most Japanese?Stopped reading there.
A dozen western devs rip off Phantasy Star Online and give it zero credit by the way. Destiny being the biggest example.
>>683732527That's a wider trend. The easier to play, more digestible thing will always overshadow the original source. If Ultima didn't suck shit for anyone who wasn't a computer geek in early 80's, it would be remembered.
>Why the hell would the Japanese care about American law and American military is beyond me.Americans are so retarded they literally cannot fathom someone being interested in aspects of a culture that's not their own.
>>683734992well, either the west or china
>>683737796>>683739394That both JP and Western games are influenced by each other is obviously true, and has been true of a lot more than just games for years. Japan and the west are major cultural exporters, and just like Star Wars was inspired by Kurosawa films, so too were a lot of Japanese movies/anime inspired by Star Wars and other 80s sci-fi/action movies. This hasn't ended even now, for a great example watch Paprika and Inception back to back.I think calling this influence a "Rip-off" is a great misunderstanding of what it means to be a creative though. Almost 3000 years ago, the ancient Greeks observed that there was nothing new under the sun, and that holds true even today. Most creatives take something they've already enjoyed and break it down into particular elements they want to riff on or explore in different ways, and a TON of modern genres are almost exclusively riffing on prior ideas. Take Neuromancer and Cyberpunk (The broader genre, not the game) for example. If you took a shot every time Neuromancer used a term or concept that is almost standard in Shadowrun or Cyberpunk 2077 or Johnny Mnemonic you'd be dead by the 30th page. Being entirely original is extremely rare, and taking influence is a very different thing than plagiarizing. Such a broad interpretation of plagiarism would likely render almost all creative productions illegal.
>>683736969Nigger, you are missing the point.Horii in particular is a time travel nerd and has had time travel as a focus in some of his DQ games.Toriyama also is a huge nerd and had time travel featured in the Android/Cell arc.Final Fantasy 1's story was a time travel story.It doesn't have to do with with a horrible future in particular.One of the most interesting things for Horii for example is the Grandfather Paradox with Marle.Time Travel was simply always a popular trope in Science Fiction literature.And all 3 of these guys Horii, Toriyama and Sakaguchi were huge geeks who loved shit like that.
>>683737796In general there's a lot of people that think building on previously established ideas is bad wrong and only pure novelty can be considered a good thing. These same people tend to not really create anything themselves.
>>683740253I'm not gonna read all that but I hope this serves as a respite.
>>683732520Because most Japs don't commit crimes.
>>683732729This is the truth. Starting from the Ultima 4 trilogy, Ultima released a series of games that would be timeless classics that stand up to this very day, with or without patches to enhance them. But the market in which Ultima landed was very small. Ultima 7 itself influences more indie games today than it influenced all games 30 years ago. Ultima as a series influenced many more western games like The Elder Scrolls than it did JRPGs. And even then, a lot of that is lost to the fact that D&D overrode most of that influence with it's own.To suggest that Chrono Trigger took inspiration from Ultima 7, when nearly 100% of court cases worldwide with a prosecutor and defendant involves the prosecutor doing everything he can to throw suspicion at the things the defendant has done, is a real detachment from reality.
>>683741056Except when they do it's the most obscenely repulsive degen types of shit like concrete girl, candy letter murderer, gas attacks etc.
>>683733008>JRPGs of this time (note: 1 year after FFVI) do not revolve around 'words'He's not really wrong though. Memory was a huge concern in 16 bit era so they didn't have that much dialogue.Compare SNES RPGs to PC RPGs or PSX RPGs like Xenogears which were literal books.
>>683742160i mean yeah the crazy crimes are always what you hear about the most cause they're crazy but it's usually just boring white collar garbage like Yuji Naka insider trading
Sakaguchi didn't play shit, he watched movies, he ripped off movies, the entire reason why he hired fucking Kitase is because he wanted FF to be like movies, he was the one who wanted to pushed FF into Hollywood with fucking Spirit Within, CT has fuckall to do with Ultima 7 and he had no reason to lie about that.The people who actually played Ultima have no problems saying they were inspired by it, but japs didn't give a shit about Ultima past 5, mostly because they're sane.
>>683735719>Cross cultural importing in 1993 was extremely difficultNah, not for JapanJapan had their bubble decadeLook up how the Shibuya-kei music genre of the 1990s was created in the first placeAlso back then games could change entirely within a few months because game development wasn't as complex.Mega Man 7 was developed in only 3 months.Chrono Trigger had an entire version scrapped because Sakaguchi delegated it to somebody else because he was busy with FF and when he saw it he thought it was trash(source: Kazuhiko Torishima interview 2015 chrono compendium).That said, I can't find any info on Ultima 7 being released on Japan nor its second part Serpent IsleAnd I also am taking Sakaguchi on his word
>>683742809>Sakaguchi didn't play shit,Of course he did, are you retarded?He played plenty of games both Japanese and Western>he entire reason why he hired fucking Kitase is because he wanted FF to be like movies, he was the one who wanted to pushed FF into Hollywood with fucking Spirit WithinOh it's Barry being a schizo again
>>683742160Serial killers, terrorist attacks, and gangs covering up their gruesome murders are hardly unique to Japan. Hell in India there are regular reports of doctors and male nurses raping young female patients, sometimes even after they come in for treatment due to a prior rape. Or how in Africa someone spread a rumor that bald men have gold in their heads, so a group of locals went around killing bald people and cracking their skulls open. In Mexico, narco gangs will hang the bodies of their victims, sometimes complete with ritualistically skinned faces, off the side of bridges as a warning. This idea that a society with an overall lower criminality is secretly harboring a darker violent streak that appears more violently or deranged when it does break out has no basis in reality. It's literally just the premise of shit like Jekyl and Hyde, Harvester, or the Stepford Wives.
>>683732384Serpent Isle is such a good fucking game, how come /v/ never talks about it?
>>683734990>The idea that a 4-time Academy Award winning film INCLUDING BEST PICTURE that grossed 100 million USD internationally couldn't have possibly influenced the Chrono Trigger developers but a sequel to a game that sold maybe 200,000 copies total was something they directly "ripped off" is laughable.Apply that logic to the ultima and wizardry games that dragon quest and FF directly descend from which sold even less copies and your whole argument appears absurd. Your arguement could be used to refute the idea that any game ever ever inspired another game because whatever movie was popular at the time sold more copies.
>>683737796I remember in my neo contra or shattered solider disc there was a developer interview and he joked that all they do is copy alien and terminator.
>>683744358Bullshit. They ripped off Predator too.
