Is Marth the most carried character or am I just coping?
>>683752084That’s fox you retard
>>683752084god, i cant wait for toothpaste-chan in smash.
>>683752212Fox requires far more skill than Marth IMO.>grab range>can chaingrab half the cast>every attack is spammable (especially aerials and forward smash)>nair autocancels>best tilts in the game>tipper is basically a crit waiting to happenFox's shine is the most broken move in Melee, but he, as a character, requires far more labbing than Marth.
>>683752084give fox's shine to any other character and watch them jump up 5 tiers
Melee is a kusoge, its high-level mechanics were not intended, and competitive play is nothing more than a glitch exhibition, and I'm tired of pretending this isn't the case.
>>683753342>Melee is a kusogeYou have to go back
>>683753342This is true but also weirdly not true. Some high-level mechanics were known to the devs but they clearly didn't know how far they would be pushed. Sakurai claims he knew about wavedashing, especially with characters like Luigi, but didn't know how useful it would be. And there's evidence from old official Japanese websites that they knew what they were doing putting L-canceling and DI in the game. Funny enough the western competitive scene largely didn't even know about DI for the first few years. The devs also knew characters could do some crazy combos and combo-enders off-stage as evidenced by the fact that they changed some spikes to meteors in the PAL version. And in general they sort of did tiny nerfs and buffs in the PAL version along the same lines the competitive scene would think of the characters - like Fox and Sheik getting some tiny nerfs and Kirby getting tiny buffs.But yeah I don't know what the fuck snapped in Sakurai's brain but for some reason seeing all these techniques that they put in the game without telling anyone used in tournaments broke something in him. Because Brawl went so far out of its way deliberately trying not to be competitive. Like, any game CAN have tripping. It's just inherently an unfun mechanic. But they went out of their way to put it in Brawl to spite the competitive community and make them know the game is meant to be silly. And now in modern day Smash they kind of have one foot in the door with the competitive community with the matchmaking and balance patches and all. But for some reason Sakurai is still bashful talking about the competitive aspects in showcases, as if it's something he's embarrassed to talk about too much
>>683752084yes he is, out of every top tier he gets the most out of the least. the fact he's so massively disjointed alone invalidates tons of characters, but add in his grab range, fmash, and dtilt and he has multiple of the strongest and easiest tools to use in the game.
>>683752084Try playing Kirby.
Shiek is easily the most carried character.if you had to win a local next week starting from zero Shiek is the character you'd pick.
>>683757314I've seen Sheik mains screech when this is pointed out but you're absolutely right. Like if someone points out that Borp isn't a literal god of fundamentals when he dabs on spacies players. And that he's maybe a little bit helped by the fact he's playing Sheik, who requires no tech skill to dmash ftilt fair things to death out of the box. But people don't want to hear it.At the highest level it's different. But at a low level you'll absolutely get the most bang for your buck playing Sheik.
>>683754345Samurai has this weird obsession with anyone being able to win. Even items became more over the top. He's cooled down on this a bit, but he thinks all people won't want to play the game if there is depth.
>>683757684Yup. At mid level it turns into Falco.
>>683753342>its high-level mechanics were not intendedoh, it's another episode of "zoomer that thinks he knows better about melee because he parrots opinions from reddit posts and youtubers"
>>683754345>And there's evidence from old official Japanese websites that they knew what they were doing putting L-cancelingL-Canceling is completely intentional, it's just officially called "smooth landing".>>683757314I have this feeling sometimes (especially when tilts start getting spammed). Her fair is insanely annoying too, and ofc lets not forget her chaingrab, ledge stalling, unfathomably good roll, etc.However, I still believe Marth is more broken.>>683754356>out of every top tier he gets the most out of the least/thread
>>683753342>its high-level mechanics were not intended, and competitive play is nothing more than a glitch exhibition, and I'm tired of pretending this isn't the case.Okay then what's your point?
>>683753342>its high-level mechanics were not intendedBoth L-cancelling and wavedashing were officially acknowledged by the devs and got left as it was.
>>683753342I doubt you've even tried to play the game earnestly
>>683758432L-canceling is very clearly programmed intentionally and was a response to Z-cancels in Smash 64 being broken, but they wanted to clearly keep what was in Smash 64 and make it better.
Marth and Shiek are the true gatekeepers of lower tiers. Plenty of mid-tiers aren't actually terrible, and at least have combo game on Fox and Falco. However, these characters can't compete with Shiek crouch canceling and chain grabbing them or Marth just being a lame disjoint character that has to take few risks.
>>683753342It's still incredibly difficult to master all "glitches" and its one of the few fighting games that has kept an audience for 20+ years. Regardless of how you feel about glitches, the game is fun for casuals, fun for pros, and is fun to watch tournaments for, evidenced by the continued viewership to this day. It's one of the few esports where even the biggest noob can tell exactly what's happening on screen.
>>683754345I'm not talking about L-Cancelling and wavedashing and other basic shit like that, I'm talking about all the weird moves that have janky properties that clearly weren't intended. High level Fox and Falco play is essentially a glitch exhibition because their moveset is so hilariously broken.
>>683760061Not sure what you mean. I guess you're just talking about shine. Because I can't think of anything else in their moveset that's weird except maybe side-b shorten but that's kind of gimmicky anyway.Yeah shine is bizarre since it's obviously meant as a reflector first and foremost. They must have known you could use it offensively or they wouldn't have given Fox and Falco's shines opposite properties, but they obviously couldn't have predicted how fucking wild it would get when paired with other movement tech
No one gives a shit about melee anymore
>>683760061Just get gud.The movement in Melee is unparalleled, maybe only comparable to Rocket League.>>683760438>t. ultimate mouthbreather
>>683752212fpbp
