How do you like your so-called "metroidvanias"?More metroid? (no leveling up, direct upgrades, no equipable weapons or abilities, everything blends in.)More vania? (or more precisely more RPG-like, grinding, farming, experience levels, equipment, etc.)
It's open world slop but 2D. I don't like it at all.
>>683755806I don't like the RPG elements. Just give me upgrades.
i like a little of everythingrpg elements but they aren't really a "grind to make the game fair" and i like updates but i hate getting stuff removed when playing ng+
>>683755806I can see the good in both, for me these games live and die by map design and controls.
>>683755806I like everything but they have to cut back on the farming and RPG shit
Both are good, but the most important thing is the acquiring of abilities that expand your moveset to open up new locations at the same time. Getting glorified keys for glorified doors with no other functions is shit.
>>683757139this
>>683756387That's OK, not every game is for everyone.>>683756561>>683756836Me neither, for example, Order of Ecclesia feels like a huge grindfest.>>683756629>>683757139>>683757206That's the thing, in case of Bloodstained even certain rare materials are removed from your inventory, they should either make the movement upgrades convenient but not mandatory or have some other way to prevent huge sequence breaks.Let´s also add some music.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=089mxpcB5sY
>>683757206The irony that the pictured example was actually the bad kind
>>683755806More Metroid but I like having a variety of weapons/attacks/abilities. I don't really care for the RPG stats unless they are direct weapon stats or something that simply modifies weapon stats (ie. bullet damage/speed/size).
I'm thinking of making a 2D platformer focused on exploration. But instead of having a sprawling world, I'd rather have traditional maze-like levels that the player must explore to beat the level. The levels have special abilities hidden in them that are reset every level, kinda like the powers in Mario 64. Does this sound good?
what was that metrovania for pc?about a robot?anyone remembers that? its 20+ years old i believeGrey robot . or blue
>>683757597If you ask me at least loop the levels around themselves for convenience.
>>683755806Either are good, but they have to play and look nice. Bloodstained was fucking awful in both regards and vastly inferior to even stuff like OoE.
>>683757815>they have to play and look nice. Bloodstained was fucking awful in both regardsI agree about the way it looks but Bloodstained plays way better than then all of the Castlevania games
>>683758029Not with those janky 3d hitboxes it doesn't.
>>683755806I think a balance of both is important: If you go full Metroid, you get garbage like Ori 2 where there's a million optional attack moves that you will never have to use because the game is braindead easy, if you go full Vania you get Bloodstained where once you have enough upgrades the game plays itself (though to be fair it also happens in SotN)Personally what I care about the most is the exploration being fun while also feeling worthwhile, recently I played Afterimage and the map was very good but the stuff you got for exploring was shit that gave +0.1 to stats that your character has +100 of so it was hard to deluete myself into thinking that it was not a waste of my time.
>>683755806less cringe elements more sexy elements
>>683758174works on my machine
>>683758276>more sexy elementsThis
>>683756561I'd rather have both (RPG elements and upgrades) than whatever the fuck Hollow Knight did with the formula by introducing trinkets. I'd rather be strong than limiting myself.
>>683758029My problem with many modern games like that is the need to use every single button there is on a modern gamepad, I would prefer to ditch analog sticks and triggers, an SNES layout with optional "macros" for everything else should be the standard, hell, even something like Metroid ZM/Fusion.
I simply do not understand the appeal of sprawling 2D corridors that you bumble around in for 90% of the game.
>>683758174The only boss that felt kinda bullshit in that regard is the blood bitch, besides that I had no problems with the hitboxes. Also it has great KB+M controls.
>>683758427Exploring unknown worlds is fun
>>683758426Yeah I don't like that they force themselves to use every button it makes everything needlessly complicated
>>683755806I'm fine with both but lean a bit more towards vania.
>>683757805anyone?
>>683758571Directional shards were the worst in my opinion, if anything Bloodstained could have just ditched all weapon types in favor of making the shards into those weapons themselves like OoE but less wimpy (having to find Vol shards instead of making the base ones stronger.)
>>683758702It wasn 20XX right? that one is a "roguelike."
>>683758689Heard really bad things about Souldiers. Is it any good or is it just as bad as people say it is?
>>683757327>Let´s also add some musicokhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tReKAwO_cXIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1nRjNO5qvQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6hQhI3L-Aghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX0HYTeuhhshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnxpJIIEz54
>>683758793>roguelikesorry i suck at vidya terms or terms at all . i suck for music toowhat was called? remember?yea i'm sure it wasn't 20XX because i remember playing it close to 2001
>>683758807As far as I know it was a mess when it was released.I got it recently on steam sale and so far it's fine, nothing really sticks out.I'm not sure what was the problems even, I heard it was too difficult and too long?
>>683758717I rather them go the quality over quantity approach which is why I always do no magic runs in HoD and SotN
>>683757327https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMRK2A6bXrsbtw ender lilies sucks
>>683757805are you talking about Cave Story?
>>683755806Megavanias for me.
I'm going to do a replay of Order of Ecclesia tonight. Any tips?
>>683758807It's just really fuckin long
>>683758932Roguelike, it basically means procedurally generated stuff and permadeath, at least in the most general terms.
>>683759069Ender Lilies is great, YOU sucks
>>683759076>Cave Storyno, it looked better . all i remember is you control something that looks like a robot and and kind of looks like metroid
>>683759003Precisely, I hated how OoE basically required me to get better glyphs instead of upgrading the base ones, so instead of Macir (hammer) getting better you find Vol Macir which is just another hammer but better.
>>683755806i like them all. i want more specific types of metroidvanias though.i want more games like environmental station alpha and more like supraland.luckily supraworld is happening but i want more 3d metroidvanias like shadowman as well. id also like more like the aria/dawn games.
>>683759128Download the OoE+ patch to save some time, it improves upon some drop tables and exp gain without breaking it.
>>683759315Is there anything similar to Portrait of Ruin?
>>683759507I mean, a romhack for PoR.
>>683759315>download the O-you didn't beat the game
>>683755806call them what they arecastleroids
>>683759245It also clutters the weapon menu screen which is annoying as fuck
>>683759208ender lilies is mediocre and entirely carried by its anime aesthetic and the mili soundtrack (both things that aren't related to the gameplay itself) without both of those nobody would have given a shit about itif you want to play ender lilies but good, pirate little noah
>>683759568romhacking.net is your friend.>>683759601Well woopi-fucking-doo, I don't care.>>683759657I actually call them "exploration" + whatever else they include, or depending on what they mostly have, like metroid style.
>>683759738I am also not a fan of having to switch loadouts constantly, even with the glyph sleeve, the game teaches you early on to equip two of the same or same class to combo, then it throws you many enemies that highly resist one type of damage so you are forced to sacrifice attack speed and union glyphs for versatility which rarely pays off because you may have all three loadouts WRONG for the area you are visiting.
>>683755806I like both
>>683759789>roguelikenot fooling me
>>683757805https://store.steampowered.com/app/603530/A_Robot_Named_Fight/ this maybe?maybe https://store.steampowered.com/app/463270/Ghost_10/ ?or it could be https://store.steampowered.com/app/347800/Ghost_Song/
>>683760010That was my most hated thing about OoE it really bring down a great game
>>683758427Would it be any better in 3D? I don't care about immersion.
>>683760037no one , isn't ghost song "new"?
>>683760137Let's not forget union glyphs using hearts instead of mana, with almost no candle around dropping enough hearts, this in turn encourages "hoarding" because you are not sure when you will be needing those.
I love Megaman ZX but I’ve never played Advent. Does MZX Advent have a similar metroidvania style of progression? Getting around did suck, but it at least forced you to traverse the world
>>683760184For me it would be interesting to see 2.5D sprawling, I don't mean graphically, I mean like how Valkyrie Profile's dungerons were laid out.
>>683760236kind of. its been playable for over a decade now and was in development hell for some time.there was an "official" release 2 years ago but the game really got released around 2014 or so i think.
>>683759214Perhaps it's Ghost Song. That game isn't that old, but it was in development for song long it can feel like it is.
>>683758807The game on release was without exaggeration extremely fucking hard, as in really, really fucking hard and frustrating to play, even on normal mode the game was 100% mercyless anything higher was pure masochism.The game was so ridiculously fucking hard and required way too much focus and patience from the player that people shit and pissed themselves until the developers decided to lower the difficulty in a balance update, but when they did the game became too easy, even the hardest mode of the new balance was easier than the easy mode of the old balance.If you are willing to play souldiers then get the old original version of the game and play all the way to the final boss on normal mode, then switch to the new version, the final boss is pure unadulterated bullshit and night impossible to beat in the old version normal mode, seriously the game is hard but doable until that point, but they really decided that you WON'T fucking beat the final boss, even if you manage to survive the first phase then there is second phase and the boss get a good deal of bullshit ass extremely hard to evade moves which might as well be 1 hit kills, that it can string with each other like combos and that give no window to attack, oh yeah they also have tracking and AoE because fuck you, I think you can't even damage the boss unless it is attacking you, and it has a fuck load of HP, basically, you won't win.Oh yeah, each stage is very long, I shit you not, that pyramid level alone is like 10 hours long.
>>683760315Apparently it is easier on the eyes compared to ZX's map, but the transformations suck ass, you are no longer using a boss themed armor, instead you turn into the boss, recycled sprites and all.
>>683759128Switch to jap voice for sexnoa.
>>683760363>>683760384anyway i'm pretty sure it isn't because i played that while i was at high schoolaround 2002
>first metroidvania with great combat>noone played it so devs will keep copying hollow knights shitty hit and run combatShame
>>683760260>Let's not forget union glyphs using hearts instead of manaI did forget...
>>683760384>>683760363https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLYZTTfFHTYfound it, thanks for the help in the end i was faster checking the name of every game released between 95 and 04
>>683757805tell us more about this game, what else do you remember?
>>683760386>Oh yeah, each stage is very long, I shit you not, that pyramid level alone is like 10 hours long.Did they shorten the stages too? I just finished the pyramid (not 100% it yet just beat the final boss of the place) and in total I have 11 hours in game so far. I also wander around a lot especially after getting the double jump.
What glyphs can I cheese Order of Ecclesia with?
>>683755806My favorite games in the genre all lean more Metroid, but it's far easier to make an enjoyable Castlevania since it's quantity over quality. So it's better for a game to lean more towards Castlevania unless the devs really know what they're doing with the game.
>>683760721If watching speedruns is any indication, I don't know the names but early on Dominus Hatred can work a bit, then you just get the one which throws a blade which you can use with Magnes to zip around levels.
>>683755806i love a good balance. SOTN is the GOAT. The castlevania collections on steam are excellent. I've been playing circle of the moon and the platform puzzles always frustrate me. I'd say that I'd prefer for these types of games to be more soulslike, with slower more precise combat, and more rpg-ish with more time in dialogues than jumping.
>>683760670>>683760664anyway>game is 8mbnow i need to remember how to play dos games oh well
>>683760664Dang I remember playing this as a kid, it was on a random game disk a friend gave me. Good times
>>683760894
>>683760664never heard of that game
>>683759789I thought Ender Lilies was pretty bad, and the anime style really only extends to Lily. The worst part about the game is the way your character stops all momentum as soon as you attack while jumping. The best thing is using the little girl flop you start the game with as your dodge and flopping off of ledges and cliffs.Anyways I have little anime girl fatigue especially when they aren't anything at all like actual little girls and are hyper competent and strong.
How is SMT Synchronicity? Does it lean more towards Metroid Or Castlevania?
>>683760639it is pretty fun but boy is the protag fuck ugly
>>683760686No, they keep the stages the same, but the difficulty was lowered for everything, so there is less risk of eating shit while in the middle of the pyramid, allowing you to explore for longer and get everything done faster.In the old version, you went in carefully because some encounters if not dealt with correctly will almost always guarantee that you will die.
Not really a metroidvania, it's more like a combination of dark souls + ocarina or time + super mario 64, but I hardly get to talk about this game.Really fun exploration and traversing mechanics https://store.steampowered.com/app/1220150/Blue_Fire/
>>683761064It's more like Castlevania with SMT's weakness system.
>>683761009can't say if it was popular or shit , i just remember playing it
>>683761160oh ok. I've had this game for years but never played it.
anyone good ones on ps5 lately. i haven't played any since bloodstained and that castlevania gba collection.
>>683761229didn't mean it in a bad way, I'm just surprised that I've been looking stuff on video games my whole life and there are still games that I never heard of.
>>683761279>blasphemous 2>prince of persia the lost crownThese are amazing. Nine sols is too but that‘s not on consoles yet. Blasphemous 2 is also getting dlc soon
What are some post-2010 Metroidvanias that are more Metroid and less -vania?
>>683761374or you forgot . that one is from 95 and i was thinking i played it on 2002i just saw one called JFK reloaded
>>683761413The Mummy Demastered
>>683761129Ah yeah, that makes sense.
this game is too fuckin hard
>>683761374i was checking squakenet.com to find it . seems a nice page to check weird things we forgot existed
>>683761454great tastewished the movie didn't tank so hard and put people off on the game
>>683761064I seriously dislike all of this company's games. They all feel the same, and they're all super simple metroidvanias. All they have going for them is their nice sprite work. Speaking of metroidvanias I dislike. I finished Ender Lillies today.
>>683761506lmao, first main boss is for babies wait until you get to the fat bitch or the old hag, those are sekiro on steroids levels of parrying and dodging
>>683757597So you want to make Yoshi's Island.
>>683760386What about bugs? Because that's the main issue I see repeated with it, people claimed that both the old and new versions of the game have gamebreaking bugs.
>>683761392Blasphemous II DLC? Provide evidence. I am painfully close to getting it at half off right now but I like to wait for games to be fully complete before buying.
>>683755806All Metroid. All the -vania adds is mindless grinding and "meta build" autism aka cancer.
>>683759789100% correctI still think it was worth it for the emotional beats and this though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aex-HIngbQ4&list=PLLiHaMFYDWBTFMLdgVBKUPxW2vs0WlAKL&index=29
>>683761413Metroid Dread
>>683762039I've never encountered one but that's still "works on my machine"
>>683762076https://x.com/blasphemousgame/status/1816479785037533327?s=46The dev liked comments on his instagram asking if it‘s dlc
>>683762126Yes. This was the only area I really liked. This is where the game started to click for me. The tower was cancer.
>>683762039The one and only bug I found on the original version was related to a side quest on the sewer level, basically a door didn't work correctly so an optional enemy won't spawn, other than that everything went smoothly for me.
>>683762320Hmm. I guess I'll be waiting longer.
>>683761392>Blasphemous 2 is also getting dlc soonchrist I forgot about that, how long does it take just to add a ng+? I was immensely disappointed when I finished the game at launch and found out ng+ was fucking dlc.
>>683762197Finished a hard mode replay and man what a great game
All of you fags should play SotN hard type patch, it removes the only flaw of SotN by making the game hard.
>>683760315I remember ZXA being more "linear" than ZX. All areas are either directly or indirectly connected but most of the time they feel more like stages (sorta like Zero 1).The new boss transformations fucking sucked. They are only useful as glorified key items to access new areas because they are terrible as playable characters.
>>683762889What's the only flaw? game breaking weapons?
>>683762889Luck mode already existed though
>>683763323Is harder than that pussy shit.>>683763132The game breaking weapons are nerfed in the patch, so is soul steal.
>>683763484>The game breaking weapons are nerfed But finding cool things and breaking the game with them is half of the fun in the inverted castle.
>>683764710Now the fun of the inverted castle is to not fucking die.
I've only played 3 Metroidvanias: Ender Lilies, Bloodstained, and Order of Ecclesia. I dropped Ender Lilies halfway through despite the godlike OST and anime aesthetic because it just wasn't that interesting from a gameplay perspective.I just beat Bloodstained last year after downloading it on a whim and while I did enjoy it, it didn't particularly stand out to me. The graphics looked okay at best, ugly and distracting at worst. The main characters were boring and the game didn't do much to elaborate on their background together. In fact my most vivid memory of that game was of frustration, since there's two points that required you to do something really obscure to progress and I got stuck for hours each time.Order of Ecclesia I just beat last month and I was in love with that game. It was fairly short and straightforward, but still had enough exploration that it felt good to discover the map secrets. The difficulty was just right being challenging enough (compared to Bloodstained) yet never too unfair. The 2D sprites and gothic-anime artstyle looked perfect for a handheld game. Also the characters really stood out to me despite having little dialogue probably because the story was simple yet elegant. I actually loved the concept of the main character being raised as a child soldier/religious zealot and how she still managed to defeat Dracula despite not being from the heroic Belmont clan. Ironically even though I played this game second, Miriam and Johannes were the ones that felt like copies of Shanoa and Albus. The ending left a really bittersweet taste knowing Shanoa would be forgotten by history AND that her game was the last. Finally, the music was pure kino. When this theme started blasting I got hyped as fuck.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj3T7cVy5eA
>>683765289game is pretty good
>>683765289Play Portrait of Ruin.
>>683765289I really don't get why people praise ender lillie's OST that much. I felt it was very mid. Bloodstained was fun but it dragged on imo. I couldn't get into OoE, but I loved PoR.
>>683765289If you like OoE then you should play the rest of the Metroidlike Castlevania games you should also play the Metroid games
>>683761064Honestly? Find out yourself, it's essentially a demo to market Strange Journey, you will be done with it in 4 hours or less iirc.
>>683766012I know I keep saying that I'll play it but I just end up playing something else
>>683755806EXP is cringe but equipment and straight upgrades are good.
>>683765690>anime trashlol
>>683755806I only like the Metroid and Castlevania (I'm including Bloodstained in this) games. Don't really care about the other games in the genre
>>683765802Harmonious, witch's breath and bloom are great.Specially bloom outro, really exemplifies the foolishness of the situation, Ulv is kino.
>>683766452good one anon I almost took the bait
>>683766452Isn't there a patch to remove the animu portraits? I think there is.
>>683766643That one is for DoS, dunno if there is one for PoR.
>>683765802>Ender Lillie OST>MidShit taste.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiTMTGqcGmc
>>683766764Search here, maybe there is.https://www.romhacking.net/?page=hacks&game=2549
>>683766643Portrait of Elegance.>>683766764The DoS one is Definitive Edition+.
Uhhhh I actually like PoR to be anime cuz the main characters are basically cool youngsters with attitude.
Let's assume someone makes a "castlevania-like" game that is not Bloodstained, Dracula is kinda public domain but many other elements are not, vampire hunters are not exactly copyrighted, etc., but let's be real, what other sources of monsters, demons and vampires are there that are not Dracula or whatever Bloodstained has?
>>683768156Most Castlevania enemies are actually generic monsters, just don't make a super obvious enemy like an axe knight which attacks mainly by throwing axes.
Thoughts?
>>683757206>>683757402Is this one better?
>>683768868Backtracking is the backbone of a good Metroidvania.
>>683769293Yeah, its better if that door place with the breakable wood is something you see before the crowbar, I think that steve lee guy on youtube talks about that alot on his channel about source engine level design
>>683769435That breakable wood door must be the first thing you see like 10 minutes into the game as a way to force you into another path, the crowbar must be 2 hours in and after a boss battle or a dead end.
>>683769625but then how would your player remember it? my design philosophy says that you should only backtrack to places you were 10-20 minutes ago max, unless it was super duper memorable like a character telling you what you need and the level natrually brings you back to that point
>>683759113Any more like this one?NX
>See thread on /v/, feel the urge for a re-run>Remembered CVrandomizer for character swap works for every DS title except OOEI just wanna play as Albus with access to Shanoa's armory.
>>683769939Maps are an integral part of a metroidvania, the player doesn't need to remember, the player must simply look at the map after getting an upgrade and see if there are unexplored areas which could be accessed with the new ability.
MV castlevanias are not good, they don't even have good level dseign. They are carried entirely by visuals and music and honestly, only sotn is peak. The rest of the series is either worse because of handheld hardware or worse because the combat is even more basic than their first outing with sotn. PoR is probably the best overall with OoE having really good potential but just kinda dropping the ballBloodstained is much much better tho it still suffers from a few outdated design decisions.
>>683770252Nothing quite like it, you could however try little Samson for the NES, which has the same mechanic of switching characters to beat certain obstacles.If you want a much more recent title witch character switching, there are the retro looking bloodstained games and gal guardians.
>>683770252https://store.steampowered.com/app/1966220/Pampas__Selene_The_Maze_of_Demons/
>>683770621Yeah I guess that's true, I don't ussually mod games with maps so when I try making metroidvania-ish design I have to dumb it down
>>683760386>Oh yeah, each stage is very long, I shit you not, that pyramid level alone is like 10 hours long.That Pyramid level was honestly such a love it or hate it risk at release.Because when you show up at the pyramid you're fucking stuck there until you finish it, you can't go back to upgrade your weapons/armor or get new sideweapons or try to explore and get more stuff. Can't fast travel out, front door is locked and you're here faced with a huge level and its confusing sublevel of an area with fairly difficult enemies, like three or four sub bosses and one boss.I loved it but god damn even though I think people pissed themselves way too much at certain parts of the difficulty they were right to complain about that and I can see most players dropping the game there.Worst part is that it's not even the most difficult part of the game. I think the airship was worse on release, having turrets that deal so much damage, an extremely annoying debuff and can snipe you a good way off screen was infuriating.Love the game but I still haven't finished it with any of the characters. I think locking all the cool abilities each class has to level ups instead of actual gear you can find ingame was a poor choice.
>>683771404The worst part were the fuckers with the mini drone suicide bombers, which are invisible and will target you from any place can teleport and will always spawn in different places so if you die you won't find them where you found them last time, they will force you to move and attack while avoiding stage hazards, fuck those guys.
>>683770513I wonder if someone would ever do a multi Castlevania randomizer that's similar to the Super Metroid + ALttP randomizer but with just Castlevania games. Maybe just two games at a time.
>>683765289Did you play Ecclesia Hard Mode? I think it's even better, Shanoa turns into this kind of glass cannon Witch where you both deal huge damage, and take huge damage. The game becomes I kinda of puzzle where the object to win is to zap, burn and raise cutting winds to dismember tricky enemies as fast as possible, exploiting their weaknesses every chance you get, Shanoa is also the best female protag.
>>683766837>documentary music>remarkable in any way at all
>>683772197
>>683765690Portrait of Ruin is my least favorite of the three DS games. It's immediately obvious that Charlotte is broken and you can break the game further in no time at all by discovering rapid fire character switching. Besides that upgrading Jonathon's weapons is a grindy pain and is plain worse than just charging magic spells You basically need to play Jonathon only to get any enjoyment out of the game. Also heavily reused late game areas,that they trick you into liking with good music.
>>683756387A Metroidvania game by design has to have progression, structure and flow in order to function, since your repertoire of abilities expands and opens the game up as you go. Open world slop by contrast is designed so that a team of narcoleptic amnesiacs can design it, since it doesn't need to have progression, structure or flow, you just homogeneously plop developed content everywhere.
>>683766837>>683772447Ender Lilies ost tries to hard to emotionally manipulate you and instruct you on how to feel. It unironically insists upon itself.
>>683765289How the hell can you like order of eclessia but drop ender lillies when EL straight up iterates on the basic mechanics of OoE but does them better and has far better enemy and level design???You put very little effort into just saying you found EL gameplay uninteresting then write a whole paragraph describing how you love the world of OoE and the fucking story of all things, while barely saying anything about gameplay. Like what you like but you really need to go back and finish EL.
>>683755806they're fun, but the term "metroidvania" is fucking retarded and should be retired
>>683773618EL level design wasn't anything special and like I said I wasn't feeling the gameplay. Honestly only the bosses presented a challenge and even then they weren't that hard. I'll go back to it someday, but only after PoR I guess.
>>683773724I promise if I make a game like that I will NOT use that label on the steam page for sure.
>>683755806I prefer Metroid/Zelda versions. Find upgrades which give you new capabilities and not just stat adjustments. These upgrades naturally open up exploration further--where the map was fairly linear and limited at first, new routes, side areas, and shortcuts open to you each time you get something, eventually allowing you to explore the entire world on an entirely new level. If a game can make these upgrades into choices, mutually exclusive with what you pick, and still make the exploration feel meaningful, that makes for an even stronger game.I'm not opposed to RPG style leveling, but when you're just getting gradual increases in power as you play, it doesn't make it nearly as fun. Eventually you just start overpowering bosses because you have more HP and do more damage than you did before, it's not as deterministic and too granular compared to discrete upgrades.
>>683770513>Knows Dominus will kill Shanoa>Knows Barlowe is evil>Does nothing about it until Shanoa is about to use it>Attacks them, steals the rune, then runs away without explaining anything>When Shanoa confronts him, multiple times, doesn't bother explaining why he's researching Dominus and instead just keeps running away>End up going crazy and tries to kill her for some reason What the fuck was his problem again?
>>683756387I’ve ended up thinking this a couple of times over the past few years, then I play a good MV and remember why I’ve liked the genre. Bad MVs are a fine pastime but there are a bunch of poorly-designed ones that people love.
>the insanity of Ulv starts ramping up as he fights youhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gR46RtoBl8>Ulv desperately fights to protect his last strand of hopehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tXoMkngPt4Holy fucking kino.
>>683761506You're parrying, right? His attacks have huge hitboxes which rapes players who insist on dodging instead of parrying.
Recently finished Afterimage, it had beautiful backgrounds. It felt like too many chinks worked on it, there was so many zones to explore.The quests system it had was so bad though, with a lot of bosses hidden behind those.
>>683770252I haven’t gotten far in it but Legend of the Wizard (NES) shares some concepts
>>683772197Shanoa sexo
Speaking of, has anyone tried the ender lillies sequel at all? It's in early access afaik
I'm tired of these "souls-like" metroidvania, fuck the combat I want more focus on exploration.While i'm at it, fuck those games where using healing potions make you vulnerable for few seconds
>>683774470Hollow-likes*
metroid games are terrible metroidvanias despite the namesake. the most important part is the interesting items you can find with useful functions, and the exploration and secrets of the map. things like leveling up and equipment don't matter - it's all about the map.
>>683773879He didn't know Barlowe was evil. I don't think he knew what Dominus was at first either, he only knew that the user would be sacrificed. Also the loss of emotions and memories seems very important to be able to bear Dominus, so he had his mind melted on top of it all too.
>>683755806like this. basically be super metroid but then also be like an rpg with magic and "stats". and then also be something completely unique that nobody else ever did. but dont worry nobody will play it because they're braindead consolefags who just want to watch movies
>>683768857I was enjoying it. Then I got the fire whip and forgot where all the burnable bridges were and didn't feel like re-exploring a bunch of areas again so I put it down. I'm gonna finish it, I'm still enjoying it. Also best card.
>>683773879It's been more than a decade since I've played OOE so memory could me fuzzy. IIRC Albus found out about Dominus after Shanoa have been brainwashed/had her memories wiped my Barlowe so he took it upon himself to steal Dominus from her. That action lead to Albus mental degradation throughout the journey until he was ultimately put down by Shanoa and that's when the truth comes to light.
>>683755806it's honestly a shame there aren't more vaniasmetroids are fucking trash
>>683768857Fire whip is the bee's knees and I bodied every boss with it once I got it. The traversal abilities and how the map was laid out was a bit linear though. At least I could teleport between save points or that would have been a lot more tedious.
>>683773618I loved OoE, but I suspect I would hate Ender Lilies, because I've come to really dislike games where combat revolves primarily around usage of a dodge/parry button that briefly makes you invincible.>>683770252Legacy of the Wizard is somewhat similar, in that you have several characters to choose from that can get past different types of obstacles. I enjoyed it, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you're fine with getting stuck for significant periods of time and having to experiment a fair bit. While I wouldn't say it's ever unfair, some areas and items can be somewhat difficult to find, and it can be hard to tell at times if you're overlooking a way to proceed, are missing an item you need, and/or are using the wrong character. It also has a pretty huge dungeon and no map system to help navigate it.If you do decide to give it a try, be sure to read the manual. It has some very important information that isn't immediately intuitive, like what all you can do with the gloves item.
>>683775569Vanias are plentiful compared to metroids.
For me, it's Salt and Sanctuary.
>>683777156based.I'm not touching salt and sacrifice with a ten foot pole though.really wish salt and sanctuary got a proper successor game.
>>683761064Why does it look like those guys make the exact same game every time?
they use the same sprite style for every game
>>683777596Same sprite artist, same engine, same platformer metroidvania gameplayGood for them and all but it gets to be kind of actual slop at a point. I'm jelly because it seems like they just get to stay afloat by getting licensed to make the same game
>>683755806-experimental abilities / control schemes-atmospheric ludo narrative harmonic experience(Within a Deep Forest)
The DS Castlevanias were pretty cool but mostly for the fights and not exploration.
>>683777264Fuck me Salt and Sacrifice was a disappointment.How do you shit the bed so hard that you think a bunch of metrovania Soulsfags would be interested in a 2D Monster Hunter game?
More music.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7WnPPQ2dnc
>>683772197DIE SHANOA!
What's the most unique power-up/ability ever put into a metroidvania? Bonus points if it sees a lot of use and isn't simply a one-off gimmick/niche.
>>683780445depends what you think about the grapple hook meme being so prevalent in games nowadays but I would vote for the grapple from rusted moss, the entire game is based around it with physics tech and actually hard platforming puzzles, kinda feels like playing umihara kawase
>>683780445Probably the ability in the lost crown where you can leave a shadow and return to it anytime
Bum0
>>683755806I'm playing bloodstained right now and I'd be lying if I didn't say I wasn't having fun but at the same time it feels so cheap>every boss beside the samurai guy at the start has been easy as fuck to defeat>game wouldn't let me play on hard from the start just because>"go defeat 5 skeletons" side quests >random Shantae and Shovel Knight reference just to remind you California dirty hands touched the game >"We put a librarian in the game and put a hole below his ass, remember when we did that in SOTN?">yesterday I accidentally entered the final boss room and it was so anticlimatic I didn't even realize it was the final boss room until the game went "you didn't find the magic dildo that reveal the final boss is being controlled just like SOTN, game over!"It feels like playing a Chinese ripoff of dawn of sorrow
>>683774470>I want more focus on exploration.This. The main feature of games like SotN was always the exploration. You can go here, there, find yet another branch, find some item, some hidden boss, some easter egg or lore room. Maze, that you explore to unveil the mystery. Not just a corridor. A place. And not just "collect 50/500/5000 feathers". I want various, unique content. Unique things i can use/read/kill/admire/solve.Modern developers went the path of gameplay downgrades, when player is either limited as fuck or have nothing to do. Game design is not only dead, it is desecrated by retards, who can't even copy good things, let alone create new good things, and who just create most retarded simplified shit for retards.
>>683783502Cuz it was the same director from SotN.
>>683783603It is not the same director as SotN, you fucking ignorant retard. SotN was made almost fullu by Hagihara, Igarashi was director's assistant, responsible only for rushing the reverse castle i.e. for the sabotage. And since then fucking Igaretard tries to overcome SotN, but failing again ang again, coming relatively close only with HoD (which he might not has been an active developer of).
>>683783603>>683783807After SotN IGA has primarily been a producer and writer, he didn't direct Bloodstained either. It was Shutaro Iida who was mainly a programmer on the older games.
What are some good metroidvanias to play after hollow knight? Just beat the game.
>>683784521SotN, HoD.
im gonna POOOOOOST>Valdis Story: Abyssal City (Actually really fucking good and hard)>Touhou Luna Nights (Time stop 2hu fun)>Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth (literally same game as above, same deal)>Environmental Station Alpha (a bit pretentious in how it handles secrets, but good)>Pharoah Rebirth + (Haven't put much into this but its solid)>Aquaria (OLD game, but amazing metroidvania.)>UnEpic (A little cringe at first and difficult but I ended up loving it)>SteamWorld Dig 2 (I had zero expectations for this and was surprised at how fun it was)>Ghost 1.0 (Kinda cringe western anime style, ended up being good)>AM2R>KreisReise (Holy SHIT the camera is a bitch but eventually you get used to it)>ゆりかごのそら "yurikago no sora" (EXTREMELY CHARMING, high japanese density, reading optional but menus might trip you up with no experience)>Blue Guardian Margaret (ecchi, underwater drowning simulator, horrendously difficult.)>迷宮のミウPLUS (3D exploration metroidvania, you will get lost a fucking lot, reading somewhat optional but menus are bad)>Repure Aria 1/2 (Porn, actually a VERY good metroidvania. English fan patch somewhere)>Boho Youyoumu (Touhou themed doujin metroidvania, not porn. Pretty decent)>Asakura/Asakura P!>A Robot Named Fight! (Its literally just Super Metroid)>Vision Soft Reset (prince of persia-esque time rewind/branching timeline gimmick)Not quite "metroidvanias">Crosscode (Scratches a similar itch)>Hyper Light Drifter (Same as above really)>Iji (More stagelike, not much of a persistent world for backtracking, freeware)>Meritous (Yes this counts, freeware)>The Messenger (More old Ninja Gaiden but with some collectables and explortaion)>ASTLIBRA (More hack & slash, like OoE but even more linear. Amazing game)>Gal Guardians Demon Purge (More classicvania, don't get baited by trying to explore early nothing will happen)
I just want my Metroidvanias to stop being Soulslikes.
>>683784838Thanks for the suggestions.>Touhou Luna NightsActually played this one a couple years back and really liked it!
>>683784838I'll second Aquaria. Combat is a bit eh but the exploration of swimming around the sea is really good fun
>>683783807Harmony of dissonance is dogshit. How did he come close?
rpg elements are fucking shit and they ruin every single modern game.i just want pure metroid.pure item progression, no currencies, no npcs or quests.
Should I play Super Metroid?
>>683785461Play it and find out. SotN second best features after exploration are visual design and atmosphere. HoD did it at the same time like SotN, but with its unique horror twist.
>>683785870I did play it and all i remember is that it was boring and had a terrible map
>>683756387They're not open world they're "big", every part of a Metroidvania is hand crafted and often progression-gated
>>683761053The artist was really inspired by balthier
>>683784838>UnEpic (A little cringe at first and difficult but I ended up loving it)some of the best coop fun i ever had along with lost planet 2 and avp2 evac. would highly recommend in multiplayer.
>>683785853Yeah, its pretty good and not very long, bonus is theres a ton of romhacks for it and even some of the most basic ones make the game feel completely new again (uptroiddown that just flips the map)
More Metroid. Rpg stats takes some focus off of action and exploration which is why I like Metroidvanias. Upgrades and hidden or optional items are good but I never want to stop exploring and grind exp in a Metroidvania.
>>683785932Then you have absolutely zero ability to enjoy the artistic side and should not touch SotN ever.
>>683760458Based Kuwashima enjoyer.
>>683784967how many soulslike metroidvania are even there? Blasphemous 1+2, salt and sanctuary and the new bloodbornish(?) game. Hollow knight is not even souls like. There are not too many of them desu
>>683786545>Hollow Knight>Not Soulslike
>>683786298NTA but lmao HoD is gaudy as fuck, it's a very poor imitation of SotN and made way too many sacrifices to get there. And how can we talk about the "artistic side" without bringing up the shitty soundtrack? Obviously not even close to SotN. I definitely respect AoS way more, feels different while still being classy.
>>683786889Corpse run and cryptic story are not souls like things
>>683755806I love them all except for one thingFUCK CONTACT DAMAGE
>>683787063See? That is what i am talking about. HoD is definitely SotN 0.8. And you can't even properly evaluate its soundtrack. I presume it is because you had played it on actual device with its shitty sound system. Play it on emulator and hear the difference.AoS is not bad on its own, but it is as far from SotN as Castlevania can get. And AoS and onwards are exactly what Bloodlines is formed from.
>>683787136That one plus no i-frames from damage.
Here are my PERSONAL METROIDVANIA RATINGS5/5 Prince of Persia - The Lost Crown5/5 Strider (I seriously like this for some reason)5/5 Shadow Complex (This too)4.5/5 Ender Lilies4/5 Rabi-Ribi4/5 Islets4/5 Infernax4/5 F.I.S.T.4/5 Astalon4/5 Enviromental Station Alpha (Crazy postgame)4/5 Grime (Le Soulslike, not as clunky as Unworthy though)4/5 Hollow Knight4/5 Ori 24/5 Ori 4/5 Bloodstained4/5 Blasphemous4/5 Steamworld Dig 24/5 Touhou Luna Nights4/5 Axiom Verge4/5 Yoku's Island Express4/5 Dust: An Elysian Tale4/5 La Mulana3.5/5 Death's Gambit3.5/5 Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth3.5/5 HAAK3.5/5 Shinsekai3.5/5 Axiom Verge 23.5/5 Haiku3.5/5 Guacamelee3/5 Unepic3/5 Ghost3/5 Pharaoh Rebirth3/5 Sundered3/5 Timespinner3/5 The Mummy DemasteredThese are the ones I didn't enjoy and didn't finish. If I didn't give a reason, it's because I got bored:Ghost Song (Time-wasting backtracking, slow traversal)Souldiers (Plain terrible)Guacamelee 2 (The puzzle platforming ramps up to unbearable levels)Unworthy (Le frustrating soulslike combat)Valdis Story (Didn't like the combat)Vigil (Performance issues)Batbarian (Unsatifying exploration)Afterimage (The maps are way too big)Death's Gambit AfterlifeMoonscarsOwlboyApotheonDexHell Yeah! Wrath of the Dead RabbitMagicians and LootersInsanely Twisted Shadow PlanetAquariaSalt and SanctuarySuper Daryl DeluxeZapling BygoneMoo LanderPronty
>>683787601Skill issue.
>>683787601i couldn't take anyone that rates Ender Lilies so highly serious. Does having cutesy anime art style help that much?
>>683777156shit game, doesn't even have item description when you pick item at the beginninghow the fuck am I supposed to know what it does without using a wikigames that require you use a wiki and guides are trash
>>683787827I just liked the exploration and combat. That's all.
>>683787827Gameplay is important, but sometimes you just like a game because its atmosphere, music and art vibes with you. And these are parts of video games as well.Wouldn't rate Ender Lilies a 4,5/5 either
SOTN on steam when
>>683758418HK trinkets and all the perma upgrades make you grow strong as hell, both mechanically, damage output, and most other things you wish for
>>683787827What should make it clear that it's a shitpost is that the first game is an ESG product that isn't even out yet.
I like GBA and DS igavanias and BlasphemousSotN, Super Metroid, Zero Fusion was mediocreHated reddit knight (dropped, all locations look the same) and bloodstained (finished but was boring and I hate the plastic unity mobile shovelware look)Metroid Dread was shit (doesn't let you explore because you need to escape from a monster like in some fucking amnesia game, streamer bait)what should I play next
How's this shit?https://store.steampowered.com/app/1231990/Gestalt_Steam__Cinder/
>>683786889hollow knight is the polar opposite of souls in every aspect of combatThe one big similarity is the world. Once you get past the early game you have an extremely interconnected and nonlinesr progression, more than DS1's
>>683787601Would you rate ESA 5/5 second half, 3/5 first half?
>>683783502>>random Shantae and Shovel Knight reference just to remind you California dirty hands touched the gameWhat non-cali, modern day indie games should it have been?
>>683788191That depends on if we are talling about Hollow Knight or boss rush addon. Because various faga consider the addon to be the main part.
>>683774470Unironically check out Hollow Knightits the n-1 game dumbfucks call souls but its really not alike outside of interconnected world>Once you get the walljump, its one of the most nonlinear & interconnected, yet well refined and coherent progressions in the genre>actually feel like you carved your own path>unlimited healing, you take small damage and heal small damage, no gay chug potion for 80% your health>the most notable thing about the corpse run is that it allows you to do tricks in order to reach places you otherwise couldnt without further upgrades
Silksong any day now
>>683755806RPG stats, inventories and equips are dogshit and ruin the flow of the game.You upgrade by exploring, that's the only way you upgrade, and every upgrade counts for something. That's the way a metroidvania should be designed.
>>683787601
>>683788165great start. way to short.shit endingnot enough gear or upgrades.takes about 5-6 hours to 100%not worth 20 bucks. go wait for a sale or pirate it. the game would feel better if it was about 3 times longer and had more upgrades and gear.its not a bad game but it was really disappointing overall.
>>683788404interconnected world isn't even ''souls-like'' at all. Only DS1 pulled it off competently and even then only in the first half
>>683788981In fact, and I will shill this game again, Salt and Sanctuary actually did the interconnected world better and thoroughly through the whole game.
>>683787601>OwlboyUnderstandable, that was the most disappointing thing i've ever sat through. Just when you think they're going to take the story mode training wheels off for some gameplay its over and the credits are rolling.>Valdis Story (Didn't like the combat)Curious, I thought the combat was its strongest point compared to the map itself.
>>683788932That's sounds disappointing as fuck, but that tracks from what I gathered from the steamies in the games' forum, thanks anon.
>>683789065shame S&S sucks in every other area I care about. Shit platforming, shit combat, shit aesthetic
>No one has yet posted Anarieta and Catharina
>>683755806You just wrote a list of things I don't care about. The IQ here is fucking me up.
>>683789225Eh, don't think there is anything particularly wrong with the combat itself and the platforming works for the most part. I probably fell to my death a lot more during any of the regular souls games.I wish it had more than five songs total, though, and a certain level of jank is ever present.
>>683788924EL RATTA?!
I've played 2 Metroidvanias and I loved them both: Hollow Knight and Blasphemous. I think Hollow Knight is a perfect game and Blasphemous 1 was amazing for me as well. I find I'm an absolute sucker for art style + aesthetics + good soundtrack and they both hit in all these dimensions.I intend to play more metroidvanias and I tried this week to get into Blasphemous 2 but I can't hold my attention it seems worse in every way and I have already been given fast travel before killing a boss after the very first one. I'll probably slog through it but it has really soured my mood on it already.Personally I love exploration and getting good at traversing the map but I also want the difficulty to ramp up towards the end and give the player significant challenges to overcome (think colloseum + pantheons in hollow knight). Fast travel in the first half of these games just ruins it for me I don't think it should be added until right near the very end, I feel the same way about the souls games after 1.Both games have amazing soundtracks.HK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JWANCA-PbwB1: https://youtu.be/JvCXvoqXkm8?si=e8N6XWZ9FKGzstRk
>>683788240I didn't bother playing the postgame if that's what you call the second half.Otherwise it felt okay all the way through.>>683788098It was on sale and I wanted a polished metroidvania at the time.
>>683789826I got Blasphemous 1 and 2 last month during the steam sale and had an absolute blast with the first game. The setting, music and gameplay were absolutely stellar. Putting the second game on hold for a bit, but I will definetely get around to playing it soon.
>>683789171NTA but I hated almost everything about it. It feels like an object lesson in why less is more. It lacks focus and tries to give you a whole bunch of tools that don't combo together at all and sometimes go as far as getting in each other's way (or being a completely worthless useless addition like the consumables system). I played Bo just after it and that game is so insanely laser focused on what it does that it made Gestalt's flaws stand out even more starkly. Still wouldn't recommend Bo though, it's only worth at most half the price they ask for it given how short it is.
>>683789983I've had a massive break between playing 1 and 2, and tbf only played 2 hours of blasphemous going by what steam says but from what I've played so far it hasn't gripped me. Maybe it's just me but there's just a ton of minor things that have rubbed me the wrong way.
>>683755806Direct upgrades should be a significant choice for the encounter. Its a complete replacement to the talent system. You can maintain the tank/healer role, and allow 3 choices per. Free to change anywhere outside of combat. It's an easy way to give us a ton of creativity and prove our game knowledge about the encounter. Loadouts are helpful. Overdesign here: Points upgrade, evolution, slot increaser, interacting with anything else.
>>683789826>has played literally 2 games>"i think this one is the best one ever"I always knew hollowbabys only liked it because it was their first game.
Psyop. Direct upgrades subsystems are corrupt. Filled with way too much junk. Makes more. Probably because of the confusion involved, and the desire to pay more money to skip ahead in life. Or, it's a way to add value to a subsystem in a cheap way, by influencing tons of tables. I don't love them, too complex. Maybe it can work, but the trends aren't setup for it to feel natural yet. It hurts me to see it. Like it should work. It should. But it doesn't. Even wow sucked. It's just a 1(123) 2(123) with extra steps. 123 for life. Put that other junk some place else, like in reforging armor or a unique game interaction like items. It's hardly a choice because of bloat and items we have. It does become a choice eventually, but it always takes awhile because you need tons of unlocks.
>>683791082I didn't say it was the best one, I said I think it's a perfect game. Are you fucking stupid?
>>683789826>I played two metroidvanias>x is a perfect gameluhmao>>683789225The platforming is great as you're running around upside down by around the third or fourth zone and it even has a variety of platforming challenges further along in the game (upside down long jumps in the pyramid to get an axe, traversing through the Blackest Vault, accessing the Sky and Fire Creed, etc.).The combat lets you dual wield weapons like a whip and pistol while allowing you to chain attacks together. Weapons in this game all even have combos that you can work out.Big surprise! A dumb newfag nigger who didn't play the game!!
>>683756387>using the word slopOpinion discarded.
>>683791082>said that he loves the game>anon got madreally make you think
If you're looking for lesser-known titles in the genre, here's some random faggot's random tierlist (this nigger SELLS hi-res maps lol)>demajen.co.uk/tierlist.html
>>683792260>Afterimage >SAs someone with 20 hours in that game, I won't even put it at B tier.
How the fuck are there no coop/multiplayer metrodvanias?
>>683794194unepic
>>683755806Definitely prefer Metroid over Vania. For me it's all about those shiny new toys and new places to use them. No shade o the latter type, but leveling up just gets in the way of the almost primal appeal of the genre.
>>683757405>I don't really care for the RPG stats unless they are direct weapon stats or something that simply modifies weapon stats (ie. bullet damage/speed/size).I also enjoyed the way Cave Story did it. If you're gonna make me deal with stats, it should be tied directly into the gear I'm collecting.
>>683756387first post worst post
>Good Metroidvania (Super Metroid, SOTN, La Mulana)You have fun progressing through the world like a normal game and find an upgrade that lets you move on.>Bad Metroidvania (Super Metroid Suversion, Castlevania ReVamped)You find an upgrade then have to backtrack aaaaaall the way to a previous area, progress 1-3 rooms to find another upgrade, then return to where you started to progress 1-3 rooms to find another upgrade...
>>683774216I’m apparently about 2/3rds through the game and I agreeGreat art direction but it’s way too big in a bad way, a lot of zones just feel there and serve zero purpose Most treasure is nonsense currency drops or health potions (completely useless once you get at least two of the self heal signs)The story is also laughably awful. The game opens with an hour of word salad, I’ve never encountered so many useless terms thrown haphazardly at the player. Even when you finally start piecing things together, it’s very underwhelming and the translation is just wonky enough to make it not worthwhile. I know people say plot doesn’t matter in metroidvanias, but if the game is going to take the time and present itself with huge amounts of text boxes and lore text a la Souls, at least make that stuff enjoyable
>>683755806I prefer metroidvanias in their most pure sense: exploration and getting abilities which give you access through increased mobility, or by being able to solve puzzles with them.That said, I also think that an igavania without the leveling system would be cool, since I also love collecting the souls/spells/shards in Aria of Sorrow/Order of Ecclesia/Bloodstained, as they not only give you new abilities, they also enhance the way you explore the map.
do we have a worth playing pic?something like pic related
more Metroid. just started Ender Lilies and already want to drop it for being slow as shit.
>>683787827Customizable combat is awesome and it's executed very well in Ender Lilies. I like creating my own loadout of attacks, the game lets you create cool combos without going full autism like games who think 2d DMC where you juggle enemies for 20+ seconds is fun or interestingHas actual enemy and boss designGood progression of universal abilitiesIt has maybe one of the best metroidvania maps and I literally mean the map itself, as it will mark your progress while not completely detailing the map out so you still actually have to explore an entire area. Obviously, fantastic artstyle and musicThere's also a kind of unique story and world to dig into if you care about lore or whatever but for me personally I didn't care too much. There just really aren't that many MVs that are high quality or have well polished imo and that makes ender lilies stand out.
>>683791082>>683791747NTA but you do realize that someone can perfectly understand good design and why a metroidvania is good having only played a few, right? He didn't say it was the best ever, just that he thinks it's a perfect game. Metroidvania as a genre isn't anything special. A lot of the design choices are literally taking from other games before it (mainly zelda) and there are games that have come afterwards in 3d space that have executed the ideas just as well or even better.
>>683794364"vania" adds nothing interesting to this poorly named subgenre. Every thing good about it comes directly from metroid.
>>683798317>i have only eaten at dominoes and this is basically the perfect pizza>yes i completely understand how good of a design this is despite not trying anything elselol
>>683798317haha
>>683798379Akshully Metroid wasn't the progenitor either. The genre already existed, but in japanese arcade games.So we have a genre named after two franchises, neither of which created the genre, which has become so emblemic that even the japanese are calling them metroidvanias despite knowing better. It's funny and shouldn't be obsessed over.
>>683756561i fucking love the shallow rpg elementsbloodstained has so many granular upgrades from food and killing things and collecting duplicate souls, it's really satisfying coming back to the hub after a huge outing and just getting a massive power boost
>>683798379>>683798650>this shit againAlright, which Kotaku writer got uppity on Twitter?
>>683798447Instead of trying to prove me wrong you come up with a stupid food analogy that does not work at all. It's more like someone whose played guitar for several decade and owns a variety of them picks up a banjo for the first time and is able to easily identify the quality of the instrument itself.
>>683761392I dunno, I couldn't bring myself to finish Blasphemous 2 despite playing the first one several times. Something about it just felt off and I didn't find myself liking the combat system. I think I eventually dropped it during the fucking kaizo platforming section towards the end of the game.
>>683755806I liked Steamworld Dig 2. But it was short, so I’m glad it was free.
>>683798848I'm not going to take your opinion or replies seriously because I find them retarded, hope that helps. Play more games dumbass before you start touting baby's first (genre) as perfect.That's why Halo is so overrated even today because it was ever kid's first shooter despite being an actual detriment to the genre in every single way minus storytelling.
>>683798650metroidvania was used to describe castlevania games with metroid elements, as a way to distinguish itself from the "classic" castlevanias that came before it. This term eventually spiraled out of control to describe games that were either directly trying to copy SotN and other games or simply games that just copied metroid elements but maybe with castlevania inspired aesthetics or the character used a melee weapon which clearly means it's just like castlevania and it has a big continous map so it's a metroid.It's really autistic but ultimately, there isn't a better term to call it. People immediately know what you mean by metroidvania and the only other alternative is something like...action-exploration or something, which sounds stupid.>>683798821meds, now.
>>683799125And an RPG system. It was (and from what I can tell, still is) a prestige title to be called a metroidvania.
>>683755806To me a metroidvania isn't a metroidvania unless it has lots of weapons, lots of abilities, lots of gear, lots of rpg stuff, lots of numbers, and can be easily beaten by grinding.All the games like Hollow K***ht are not metroivanias.
>>683755806You get an autoplacing program.>1234567890ABCDEF84219631DB3142101234567890ABCDEFGIJKLMNOPQRSTUV1234567890ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUV=1=2=3=4=5=6=7=8=9=0=A=B=C=DBASHVOIDRELAY0FINDHASHTAGTRXAUDIOINOUTFDXZXBOXATFLOP48D2CNFA546372811F2E3D4C5B6A7089PDIALGAME1XYZ123>TERMINAL.EXE-tYou get an ditherous biospreservance.
>>683799120I'm not the original one that called hollow knight perfect, dipwad. I'm just pointing out that you can identify it's a good game because there are many other games that do something similar to hollow knight before it's release just in other """"""genres""""". Again, most 2D Zeldas have all the elements of a metroidvania just with more puzzle elements and being more level/dungeon based than one fully connected world.
>>683799424stop samefagging
>>683759315I've beaten OoE maybe 20+ times and I've never had issues with drops or exp.How much of a baby are you?
>>683799252so friggin true
>>683799252>unless it has lots of weapons, lots of abilities, lots of gear, lots of rpg stuff, lots of numbers, and can be easily beaten by grinding.So, JRPG?You have forgotten free exploration, core gameplay of a 2d melee platformer and at least partial non-lineriarity.
>>683799493I accept your concession to the argument.
>>683799612not that anon, "dipwad". your samefaggotry and newfag behavior is embarrassing.
>>683799543I didn't forget those I assumed they were there since we're talking about 2d platformers with open explorable worlds.But since you're going this route you forgot that they're playing using electronic devices, need an electricity bill to be paid either by you or externally, oxygen is required for prolonged play, food resources irl can be consumed to prevent the player's hunger, sound will come out of the device, you have hands, etc, etc
>>683799424>I'm just pointing out that you can identify it's a good game>its perfect>has no other games to compare them to
>>683799682bud, I already said I accept your conession, you don't gotta keep replying.
>>683755806I'll omly try metroidvanias if they are porn, I don't have fun with the genre.
>>683799902But there are 0(zero) good porn ones.
>>683789826>>683798317>>683798848>>683799424>>683799612>NTA but ACKSHUALLY
>>683799772What's the issue here? I didn't even read what the original guy was saying about HK. I was literally just pointing out that the MV genre isn't complex that it requires this vast knowledge to understand what makes a fun game, especially if he's talking about hollow knight where the world design and simple but polished combat is easy to identify as high quality. I actually feel bad for the guy because he'll probably try to play shit like sotn because of it's praise and be absolutely disappointed. >>683799970thanks for the (you)
>>683799945IGAvanias have tits.
>>683800073But they are not porn games and not all of them have tits.
>>683800268Tits aren't porn? Are you gay? Because SOTN has uncensored cocks in it. IGA is a colossal pervert.
People should really play The Lecarde Chronicles 2it's an amazing castlevania fan game and feels like an alternate timeline game, where SotN didn't happen but in its place, they made another attempt at the Simon's quest formula, but way better.also has a great OSThttps://youtu.be/oFvZT7Ja5qY?si=IdQndJw_BuEa_KHW
>>683800348I'm playing it, I just fought the Corpse Brigade boss in the academy. It's clunky and unpolished as fuck, but the atmosphere is perfect.
>>683800348Does it do Simon's Quest better than the new Bloodstained DLC?
I really liked grime, it's like what if oddworld was a metroidvania with sekiros parry in itAlso the sole good israeli game ever made though they like to hide they are from israel kek
>>683800462>though they like to hide they are from israelAmericans love Isreal, there's no reason to hide it. Flaunt it.
>>683800462>with sekiros parry in itAh so it's immediately garbage. 2D games are usually much more movement based, when you add a parry that just lets you negate all damage without having to move around then that's admitting that you don't actually want to design real bosses, you just want to create a rhythm game experience where the only thing that matters is that the player hits a button within a certain window
>>683755806I enjoy both just about equally. But if I had a gun to my head, and I was forced to choose, I would say Metroids are better.But the PEAK of Metroidvanias, are actually Mulanas. As in La-Mulana. They're basically metroidvania the rely more on puzzle solving than either action or RPG mechanics. Unfortunately, these style of games are very rare.They would be La-Mulana 1 and 2. Eldritchvania. Environmental Station Alpha. And Phoenotopia Awakening.Phoenotopia Awakening styles itself more of a Zelda-like. But Sidescrolling Zelda is essentially Metroid with puzzles when you think about it. It just has a bunch of narrative on top of it all.)Also, while it's a top down game, I would also include Tunic in the list Mulana-troids
>>683800994There was that "metroidvania" about an egg, that i constantly forget the name of, presumably from Celeste creator way before he went wromg way.
>>683800348Why is alucard in the horror gallery
>>683800994la mulana is not a metroidvania
>>683801201I don't know what you're talking about. But "egg" made me remember Animal Well. That's another good Mulana-troid.
>>683800442yes>>683800431>It's clunky and unpolished as fuck, but the atmosphere is perfectthat sums it up well. it's just so incredibly charming and has a strong identity.I am currently replaying it (the rework version that has some small fixes and improvements) and I am really enjoying myself just like I dis the first time.and on the topic of Simon's Quest like games. Infernax is really good too
>>683801201>>683801316Ah, yes, An Untitled Story.https://tig.fandom.com/wiki/An_Untitled_Story
>>683801302Yes it is. More or less.
I saw a robot names fight mentioned and went to look it up. I immediately liked the visuals and people saying its basically super metroid made me hype. but then>roguelikeFUCK OFFwhy the fuck would you mix two design philosophies that directly oppose eachother?go make a turn based racing game, then kill yourself
>>683801371It actually feels like gothic horror unlike every other metroidvania I've played. Not dissing IGA but his games always have a whole kitchen-sink of random unrelated crap thrown at you, ruining all sense of cohesive atmosphere. Lecarde is just perfect, everything is what I want to see in my gothic horror game.
>>683801615>go make a turn based racing game, then kill yourselfAnon i...
>>683801454No. Your post literally says why. The massive emphasis on puzzles explicitly makes it well...a puzzle game, not a metroidvania. Metroidvanias are much more combat heavy. La mulana wants you to sit down and critically think about puzzles before you can fully move on. The actual "combat" is extremely simplistic and some of them are more puzzle heavy than anything. It's a great game but it's much closer to a puzzle game than an MV imo.
>>683801615It plays 100% like a Super Metroid randomizer romhack. Either that's your kind of thing or isn't, fuck off.
>>683801625yeah it really does. it's also more in line with castlevania 1-3 in that respect.I love the baroque bizarre beauty and ugly that the igavanias have but there's something really cool about the classicvania aesthetic that I didn't even realise I was missing until I played Lecarde Chronicles 2
>>683801659>someone actually did itfucking hell. well, at least its a board game, I can see the appeal, but it's just board game that is about racing, it dossnt appeal to people who like racing games, is my point.just like when YOMI hustle came out. that game appeals to people who don't play fighting games
>>683802075>properly directed rooms' positioning>le random mish-mash of random and completely same shit, thrown at you again and again, that is expected to be reexperienced until you'll stop noticing any differences
>>683801893>The actual "combat" is extremely simplistic and some of them are more puzzle heavy than anything. Uh, what? The combat in La Mulana is as refined as any other metroidvania, with multiuple weapons and subweapons, and the bosses will fuck you up. Just because the puzzles are harder...
>>683801615>turn based racing gametapped out at dragster eh
>>683802075it's not and I hate that devs take their inability to design proper game flow as an excuse to shit out roguelikes left and right in every genre, even in genres where that is of high importance, like metroidvanias.you fuck off
>>683801893Yeah, no. Metroidvanias don't have to be combat heavy. Hell, the gold standard for Metroids: Super Metroid is less combat intensive than La-Mulana. You can't name a boss in Super Metroid that's harder than say Sakit. And he's not even the hardest the game has to offer. He's just hard enough to be a fun challenge. Like Kraid but a little harder.And Super Metroid has a number of puzzles of its own. Albeit minor ones. Most of it is just hiding paths behind breakable walls. And remembering what skill can be used where in order to advance. But still.La-Mulana just ramps up the requirement for environmental observation.
>>683802214Fun thing: The winner is not the player who crosses the finish line first, but the player who on the last turn covers more distance BEYOND the finish line.Much salt was thrown around over this game at my board table.
>>683802243>>683802326Then go play super metroid againbecause it's basically the same game even down to the weird floatiness of super metroid
>>683802465yeah, damn, i'd probably get salty too. i have a difficult relationship with board games anyway.i never liked them as a kid and when i discovered video games were a thing, I never looked back
>>683802494Really? It kind of looks like Fusion from the screenshots and I fucking hate Fusion's physics.
>>683802494I have played it many times.I would like to play new, good metroidvanias and despite it being a popular design approach with dozens of games, only very few manage to actually do it well and not fuck it up, which is very annoying.there are like 5 good ones that have come out in the last 10 years
>>683802623IIRC it doesn't have ledge grabbing, but physics wise it feels like Super. Theres a ton of other weird powerups and shit in there that I haven't gotten so maybe. It's been on the "to-do list" once i'm not trying to finish up other longer games.>>683802648I gave a whole list of good ones above >>683784838 take your pick. From the way you whine about muh map purity you'd probably enjoy Valdis Story but if you're dead set on something purely Metroid feeling maybe go with Ghost 1.0, Steamworld Dig, Vision Soft Reset or Aquaria.
>>683802261The combat is nothing special. If you were the remove the puzzle games it would be a terrible mv game. The puzzles are a lot of what makes up the actual content of the game.>>683802460I never said the games have to be hard but the large majority of what you'll be doing in lamulana is platforming and puzzling. >And Super Metroid has a number of puzzles of its own. Albeit minor ones.Optional stuff and they really aren't brain twisters either nor are they something you really need. You can definitely use your brain to get to some extra stuff in unintended ways tho and that's why SM is so good
>>683803019I mean the combat in SOTN is pretty poor, the aesthetics saves that game. It's still a metroidvania and not an art exhibition as far as I can tell.
>>683803115Combat in SotN have attack, backdash, blocking projectiles with shields, spells (one of them is a teleport with launching fireballs or meteors on player's choice, just like Dracula), various secondary weapons, weapon spells, buffs/debuffs, consumable item-weapons, attacks in form of wolf/bat (dash and, for bat, fireballs), familiars and their interaction with various tranaformation forms, various statuses, inflicted on player etc.
>>683803620>more stuff = betterno
>>683803731Yes. Variety of combat is one of the selling points of SotN.
>>683803115>I mean the combat in SOTN is pretty poor,It has both moves and magics that can be triggered by button combinations, that's more than most metroidvania can say.
>>683803115Yes, I know SotN is shit but it's still an MV because the entire game is just combat and platforming/exploration
>>683803782The game is so easy and unbalanced that there's no reason to explore a fraction of that variety. It's the ubislop of its day.
>>683803862Reason to explore is the exploration itself. If you don't want that - proceed to linear platformers and rolling games of souls.
>>683804025As I said - ubislop.
Here's a retarded question, but do all modern Castlevanias have the "farm enemies to get their summon/power" shit? Other than Super Castlevania, the only games I remember playing were the DS ones, which I really liked. And I think all/most of those had a mechanic where enemies drop themselves or something that uses their move. I'm sure that's been implemented in other games, but nothing immediately comes to mind out of all of the "metroidvania" games I've played. I apparently play ones that lean way harder into the "metroid" side.
>>683803620>>683803830>demolishes the game with 0 effort
>>683804372for me it was soul steal. once I figured out that input on accident I never even bothered trying in combat again.
>>683804238Near every enemy in bloodstained drops an ability
>>683804467Mechanic wise, bloodstained is pretty much an Aria of Sorrow clone.
>>683804238> but do all modern Castlevanias have the "farm enemies to get their summon/power" shit?That's specifically an Aria/Dawn of Sorrow thing, which Bloodstained took from unfortunately.
>>683804467Is the game good? I remember the Kikestarter or whatever for it, but I thought most people didn't like it. But I might be conflating it with the Megaman knockoff Kikestarter
>>683804928You are conflating it. Bloodstained is a little ugly but everything else about the game is solid. It's well worth a play if you like the other Igavanias.
>>683794194AM2R multiplayer
>>683804928Its alright. Like its definitely the highest effort metroidvania we've gotten, but it has its flaws.If you do get it, look up a mod that gets rid of the kikestarter backer portraits, trust me.
>>683755806the best metroidvania i have ever played by a lot, and as someone who loves the genre, is definitely aeterna noctis. polished, huge, and the most challenging metroidvania ive played that was a full "game". its basically the hollow knights white palace except thats just where it starts. i never see it talked about for some reason even though its a massive game, tons of good bosses, good balance, huge world, difficult platforming, etc. kinda crazy. if you havent played it its definitely my recommend
>>683802243There are several areas like Super Metroid and the visuals and themes of each area stay consistent to themselves. The roguelike part is simply unlocking new abilities that's added to each run. If that's enough to filter you from a decent game, your loss.
>>683803019>I never said the games have to be hard but the large majority of what you'll be doingThe combat to puzzle ratio is flexible within the genre.>majority of what you'll be doing in lamulana is platforming and puzzling. This is false, because the mere act of traveling from one place to another involves combating a lot of enemies. Arguably more enemies stand in your path in La-Mulana than they do in Metroid.>Optional stuffNo, there are various rooms that are required, that don't signal to the player that they need to break the wall or floor. The player just has to be curious enough to check their surroundings. Like the path leading the speed boost in bubble zone. Or that shaft in the red zone where you have to use ice to freeze enemies to ascend. In order to *descend* that shaft in the first, place, you just have to be curious enough to break the floor. And to get back up(which you have to do) you need to be curious enough to freeze the enemies and use them as platforms.Or what about that one room on the way to the grapple hook, where you have to clear the grounds in order to make room for speedboosting? I've witnessed a number of people get stuck on that one. They run around confused, because they don't think to use the power bombs to clear out the debris along the path on the ground. They just assume it's the shape of the room, and jump around it. Turns out merely platforming and combat can't help them out of this room, they need to actually stop and think and use their heads.
>>683755806Why would it be a metroidvania if it didn't have both? The only thing Castlevania added was the RPG shit. God I hate video game genres.
>>683755806If I can't get lost in them, they suck.Didn't like metroid dread for this reason.
>>683755806However you'd describe Touhou Luna Nights. I adored that game's tight, no frills progression and cool powers/boss fights. It's like 5 hours long but it's all killer, no filler.
>>683804605No. It's sotn with a fleshed out "soul" system. Aria's soul mechanic is a good concept executed poorly because that game is so short and the large majority of souls have a low drop rate and unless you're looking shit up there is no reason to grind out for specific souls just to see what they do.
>>683755806I haven't played a metroidvania that hit quite like La Mulana 1 and 2. Love them.
>>683761053>Anyways I have little anime girl fatigue especially when they aren't anything at all like actual little girls and are hyper competent and strong.been real tired of this for a long timeso many games turn me right off
Has anyone tried out Frontier Hunter? It is finally out of early access on Steam today. From what I remember, the demo wasn't bad.
>>683780445The permanent bouncing in Within a Deep Forest.
>>683807195Fucking forgot to add pic!
>>683805570i just dont really like the way it looks and sounds and that's what put me off. same with ender lillies, I hate it when games animate the way that game does, it's so sinfully ugly.but based on what you said, I might give it a shot
>>683805712how are you supposed to design a coherent and rewarding pace if all your upgrades and abilities are randomised?if you can explain that to me, I might try it. it seems the way roguelikes work is exactly opposed to what makes metroidvanias fun to play through
>>683807381honestly when i first looked at the steam pictures it looked pretty mid and low budget, but after playing it its an absolute masterpiece. i can see what you mean and i thought ender lillies was kinda mid and easy, but aeterna noctis is pretty masterful. in my opinion, if you enjoy the genre then this game is a no-brainer must-try
>>683807195It's a bit more polish than the Frontier Tower one, but still a bit amateurish. You get 3 characters, the main one gets 3 different weapon types, the other two gets 2. You can freely tag between them. It also has something similar to Mega Man Battle Network's block system for weapon improving with gem blocks that enemies drop. Maps have obvious spots where you need a new ability to get through, but you have ways to traverse the map with your innate abilities to get around a few of them.>>683807478I mean, people enjoy randomizers for a reason. Metroidvanias are fun to play through because I like exploring and finding new stuff. Roguelikes don't change that. Pace is a non-issue because I can just sequence break in SM anyways. And I can sequence break because I know where everything is because that never changes, hence why I like randomizers. I like change.
https://demajen.co.uk/tierlist.htmlThe official /v/ tier list.
>>683808405>Didn't finish La-Mulana>Ori 1 that highBrainlet take.
>>683807670okay then, I'll try it out. would be cool to have something good to play again!>>683808000randomizers of a game that you know vanilla and games that rely on randomization for the core experience are two radically different things though. one was properly designed first
>>683798163>It has maybe one of the best metroidvania maps and I literally mean the map itself, as it will mark your progress while not completely detailing the map out so you still actually have to explore an entire area.All but the most incompetent metroidvania maps do that as standard.
>>683807478>how are you supposed to design a coherent and rewarding pace if all your upgrades and abilities are randomised?Because its not truly random, runs are seeded and generated based on what it knows is possible to complete. Its not going to generate (red door) and not give you a (red key) for example.It wont generate certain tall rooms if theres not a double jump upgrade on the path, etc.I will agree its kind of boring to just start a new run and see the same areas but then again I haven't unlocked a whole lot.
>>683808947Romhacks that completely change everything are also popular. Look, if the randomness puts you off that much, then let's drop it.
>>683808405Pretty mediocre tier list honestly
3 games for 5 bucks.What anons recommend? Already have and played Grime and Pumpkin Jack. I think 9 Years would be one, but what about the other 2?The Imp one looks decent and cute
>>683809560>>683808584why??
>>683809629Valfaris is okay but I dunno about any of that other shit on the list.
>>683809631Why are you a brainlet? I don't know. I guess you were born that way.
>>683809041Not the way ender lilies does. It marks how many paths a given room will have and it won't tell you how many things there are in that room you need to collect, it just marks incomplete/complete then gives a rough idea of how many paths there are. It's very convenient while still letting you actually discover stuff on your own.
>>683809631Personally what offends me the most is both thinking that the second Ori game is worth of a S while also being better than the first one. I think this person values budget and aesthetics more than gameplay which makes me feel he's not a very good critic. There's a lot of other stuff I disagree with but that's what I feel is the most egregious showing that the tier list is bad.
>>683755806Either can be good, problem is there way too many metroidvanias in the market these days and few of them dare to do something different rather than being a copy of castlevania/hollow knight
>>683809780>>683809873Thanks...
>>683809387yeah but are those romhacks based on the idea of randomized playthroughs that inhibit good level and progression design?no, they're largely not, aside from the literal randomizers.we can drop it, sure, but I won't have people sit there and tell others that a roguelike/lite formula gels in any way with a metroidvania design philosophy. it is a fact that the two are fundamentally opposed to what makes each special and interesting on their own.
>>683783502Bloodstained is legit one of the most lazy metroidvanias out there. All the ideas and mechanics feel recycled from other better metroidvanias.
Quit Bloodstained after the "fake" ending and when I got to inferno cave I was over it. Finished Nine Sols with both endings and it was a more well rounded experience overall
>>683784838I'll second that:hollow knightender liliessalt and sanctuary 1,2Deaths Gambit AfterlifeBlasphemousGuacamelee 1,2vigil the longest nighthaikuUnbound - Worlds Apartsundered finisher3000th DuelminoriaDust: An Elysian TailfearmoniumitorahTUNICdark devotionkunaiBlue Fire Balance of JusticeDeath's Doorclunky heroBloodstained: Ritual of the NightHaakTimespinnerAeterna NoctisMoonscarsGrimeF.I.S.T.: Forged In Shadow TorchGhost SongAfterimageProntyThe MessengerVernal EdgeAstalon: Tears of the EarthThe Knight WitchGhostAxiom Verge 1 и 2Shadow ComplexCHASMSuper MetroidMetroid DreddThe Last Case of Benedict FoxTEVIMindseinzeSlain Back from Hellmoonriderthe parhelion blaze in the deep blueFlash back 2Unworthy8 Doors afterlifemonster boyEternal HopeMorbid: The Seven AcolytesHyper Light Drifter, MoonlighterThere Is No LightSummum Aeterna.
>>683810235because people wanted another Igavania. all the DS ones are the same as you described, maybe barring OoE. and seeing as the last one released in the late 00s, I'm not mad about getting basically a "greatest hits" game.there's more than enough metroidvanias out there that try to do "something new" and are worse for it. originality is in no way a mark of quality. I wish people used their brains and finally understood this
>metroidvania thread>ctrl f rabi1 hit>ctrl f tevi0 hits>ctrl f momodora0 hitslmfao... stay classy /v/
>>683810792yeah your love for chibi girls makes you superior to all of us, I kneelfuck off
>>683810304i quit it after the reddit portraits
>>683810792Tevi doesn't deserve to be mentioned.
>>683810898keep arguing over whether or not hollow knight is a ""souls-like"" brother
>>683808405>>683808584grime seems kinda fun.how's the exploration/map design?>>683809873i still can't believe people like ori 1 more than 2.it's one of the most straightforward upgrade in a sequel i've ever saw.not even talking about graphics, ori 2 added base building, quests, an actual combat system, more advanced movement mechanics using the new weapons.can't remember if 1 had the combat arena challenges, but in 2 they were a lot of fun.i once spent 3 full minutes midair as i was juggling some basic enemies to reach an area i wasn't supposed to get to early
>>683810792Momodora was too easy and really basic. It was alright but nothing special
>>683756387> open world slop but 2Dgenuine mental illness
>>683811069>grime seems kinda fun.>how's the exploration/map design?Grime has a unique world that's kind of cool but the platforming is absolutely the game's weak point. Exploration is good because of what you can find but also bad because of how it plays out, if that makes sense. It's definitely a game where the combat is the better handled part.
>>683809873Ori 2 has better gameplay, it's the most clear fucking advantage. What are you on about? I wouldn't even call the first game a metroidvania because the game is practically linear outside of one area that was added post-launch. The entire challenge of the game comes from platforming and I like that don't get me wrong but ori 2 has a much better designed map, fun combat that lets you play around with it in interesting ways, and it still retains fun powers and platforming section. It's such a clear upgrade to the first game that I can't understand anyone who can find some way to pretend it's worse. I would even argue the platforming is much better in ori 2 because there's more powers, more variety, and more interesting ways to play around with those powers.
>>683811069Grime is all about combat. Map exploration is slow. Backtracking is tedious due to the warp points being only few, far between, and in inconvenient locations. There are secrets in the map, but you always have to ask yourself, "is it worth plodding over this long distance, and through so many difficult enemies, just to see what's over there?"Much of the tedium could have been mitigated if they allowed the player to teleport via the save points. But nah, instead, they opted to make teleportation rooms, and then place those teleportation rooms in out of the way locations. So they're barely more convenient than just walking where you want to go.I'm complaining a lot, but it's still a good game. worth the money. Just be prepared for a difficult combat game.
>>683811610>>683811069Oh yeah. And another thing: they have a cool mechanic, where you sort of sling shot off objects by "pulling" at them. Very similar to the pulling mechanic from Order of Eclessia. But for some god forsaken reason, they made the controls to where you have to push the analog stick *toward* the think you're pulling. Which is counterintuitive, imo. I asked them to give the option to invert that control. They said they would include it in the next update, but they never did. Bastards.
>>683811338>>683811610>Backtracking is tedious due to the warp points being only few, far between, and in inconvenient locationsehh.that's kind of a deal breaker actually.i can handle difficult combat, nine sols for example was a lot of fun.but if i have to slog through areas all day just to get where i'm going i'd prefer not to.it's tedious enough when i have to do it near the end to get that 100%
>>683811069>>683811549The good mechanics of Ori 2 are inherited from Ori 1 besides the sand diving, it adds terrible forgettable bosses, the base weapon is an obvious Hollow Knight rip-off, exploration is pointless because you don't need ANYTHING to beat the game, the story is garbage (at least in Ori 1 they don't waste your time with so many inane cutscenes besides at the very start), it changes the save system from Ori 1 which actually gave agency to the player regarding how much they trust their abilities for the tricky parts into regular braindead autosaving, it's full of useless upgrades that are totally missable, it's even easier than Ori 1 which already was pretty damn easy, the list goes on and on but you get my point.Ori 1 clearly has a lot of thought put into it and the developers delivered a good experience without straying away from their core idea, Ori 2 is another run-of-the-mill metroidvania but with a bigger budget where they "borrowed" ideas from their betters and applied them in the most mediocre way possible. If you like Ori 2 you like Ender Lilies, if you like Ori 2 you like Blasphemous 2, all utterly mediocre gameplay experiences proped up by their presentations. It's not like I disliked these games but they are definitely not the best of the genre because they do nothing new as GAMES
>>683811014i don't even know where you get that from>>683811610not who you're replying to, but that sounds awful. combat centric metroidvanias usually kinda suck in my experience. they hinder the flow of exploration and combat in 2D is way more fun when its about movement and positioning, which is what most of these get wrong and go the comboslop route instead
>>683777596>>683777994At least the Konosuba one wasn't, since it was a Mega Man clone.
>>683780445I love the Float Buckle in Supraland. You get to magnetize to any bare metal surface and float up or down as you will, and in then sequel you get to reverse polarity to launch off the surfaces. It even gets a special property with magnets where repelling is much more powerful but it's very rarely used.
>>683807670>aeterna noctis is pretty masterful[pukes externally]it's like if some faggy Brazilian without self-awareness tried to make SotN and failed miserably. got memed into pirating a couple of days ago. should have known after how bad Summeme Aeternum was.
>>683765289Do you only play games with cute girl MCs?
>>683812672>it adds terrible forgettable bossesi like the bosses>the base weapon is an obvious Hollow Knight rip-offa sword with an arc-shaped hitbox? in a metroidvania? unthinkable>exploration is pointless because you don't need ANYTHING to beat the gameexcept, you know, all the things you actually need to have to beat the game>story is badit's literally the same story from ori 1, pretty emotional and it's just there to tug at your heartstrings. if you don't like the cutscenes just skip em.>saving systemeh, the autosave worked fine, while in ori 1 it was a pain to have to re-do a lot of stuff because you forgot to save>If you like Ori 2 you like Ender Lilies, if you like Ori 2 you like Blasphemous 2i fucking hate ender lilies and i liked B2>because they do nothing new as GAMESdoing something new doesn't make a game good, it makes it original.these are 2 separate, independent attributes
>MetroidvaniasUhh we call them Turrican clones around here buddy.
>>683755806So were The Last Faith and Gestalt: Steam & Cinder any good? I've gotten really wary of indie games with great spritework because more often than not that's where most of the budget and effort tends to go to while every other aspect is lacking.
>>683755806If it's not pixel graphics I want nothing to do with it. 3D and "smooth" metroidvanias all look and play like ass. Yes, even Hollow Knight is fucking garbage.
>>683813638Last Faith was basically a 7/10 Blasphemous clone with a Gothic aesthetic and almost all the same pros and cons of what it's cloned from, with less memorable visuals and more walking.But overall fairly decent imo.I didnt realise Steam and Cinder is out so thanks for reminding me
>>683812672>it adds terrible forgettable bossesnon-issue. There are like 4 bosses in the entire game. The first game didn't even really have bosses, just chase sequences. Also, the bosses aren't even bad they're just okay.>the base weapon is an obvious Hollow Knight rip-offOkay i'm stopping here. If you're gonna complain about the game having a basic fucking sword as the first weapon you get, then clearly you're stretching to find reasons the game is bad and calling it a hollow knight rip-off is doubly retarded because one, it's not and two, the implication here is that it's bad to take ideas from hollow knight. Christ. How do people like this exist. You have to scrounge for retarded points to try and make ori 2 out as a bad game, why? Any normal fucking person would agree Ori 2 is an upgrade, even if they might like Ori 1 more.
>>683813650i agree with your general sentiment, but saying hollow knight is bad just makes you a cringe contrarian.can you even explain why it's supposedly garbage?
Why do people pretend blasphemous 1 is a good game and isn't carried entirely by aesthetics.
>>683814079I tried playing that game for 2 hours and I couldn't put up with it anymore. Even the controls and menu navigation were tedious, let alone the level design. Hated this one.
>>683757139This guy absolutely fucks.
>>683755806Is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night still the best one?
>>683814079It is not. It have too much instakill linear platforming instead of exploration and it is balanced around self-staggering combos, which for 2d action game just doesn't work right.
>>683814213Similar experience. I could've maybe tolerated it for longer if the slide didn't have an arbitrary cooldown that made it way slower than it needed to be.
>>683814340Yes. Good projects try to add top much from other genres to be the best, copies mostly substract too much.
>>683773618Ender Lilies just has a shitty artstyle. I had to look it up just now to remind myself of what it is. Not playing that souls shit. The "protecting a girl" story is also overdone as fuck.
>>683788404>>unlimited healing, you take small damage and heal small damage, no gay chug potion for 80% your healthhollow knights healing system is even more retarded than the dark souls one>oo, you're trying to heal? >too bad.. you just got le hit and took... le more damage
>>683755806Every time I try to play this, I give up midway through or so because the enemies become too spongey and hit too hard and I can't keep up. I'm not finding enough weapons on the field nor enough materials to craft stuff and the leveling alone doesn't seem to make much of an impact. Is the game badly balanced or am I playing wrong? am I supposed to play with a guide to know where to farm stuff for the latest weapons or something?
>>683786545If you don't see the similarities you may have autism.
>>683812112You don't *have* to slog through areas, because there's next to zero backtracking if you only go from main objective to main objective. The quickest way to play the game would actually be to just do the main shit first, ignoring all alternate paths. And then when you get to the end of the game.(like literally just before the final boss) the game will unlock the ability to teleport via save locations. At that point, you can backtrack easily to collect all the stuff you missed.>comboslopGrime is NOT combat slop. It's mostly about positioning in fact. The combat is great. If frustrating at times. It's all about knowing where to be, at what time. And there's some build variety too. Fast weapons, slow weapons, short weapons, long weapons. Most weapons have a unique moveset. Each one was crafted purposefully.There's this one weapon type that's unique. They're lanterns. When you press the attack button, they shoot a light at enemies. If it the light hits, it adds a counter to the enemy. Then, when you press the other button, it deals damage in proportion to how high the counter is. So if you only get 1-2 counts, then you deal almost no damage. If you get 10 counts, you deal a decent amount of damage. And if you get 20 counts, you deal a MASSIVE amount of damage.The catch, is that if you go too long without increasing the count, then it's reset back to zero. So you have to find as many opportunities as you can to increase the count. Get it as high as you can, and then cash in the damage. I don't think a weapon like this would be viable in comboslop games. Because it relies on combat design where hit opportunities don't come easy.
>>683805290WHELP. didnt know about this.didnt know am2r had a modding community.now im going down that rabbit hole until the new poe league starts.
>>683755806I like being able to equip shit and make a "build" but don't care for levelling and rpg experience shit like that in ANY game.
>>683784838>Valdis StoryIsn't that that one autist with the boomerang DA OC's game?
>>683815994>And then when you get to the end of the game.(like literally just before the final boss) the game will unlock the ability to teleport via save locationsi guess i'll give it a try since there's a demo
>>683814006I didn't say it was a bad game, I said it's worse than Ori 1. My opinion is that it is mediocre, if you want to prop up derivative garbage then do that but thinking the opinion of "normal people" is what matters the most means you don't really care about genuine criticism.
>>683755806Enough with this shitty genre. There's a perfectly good forgotten platformer RPG genre indiefags should be working on instead. From Xanadu and Sorcerian to Zelda 2 and Ys3 to Popful Mail and then to total oblivion because nobody makes those games anymore for some reason
>>683812672>Ori 1 clearly has a lot of thought put into it and the developers delivered a good experience without straying away from their core ideaYou exagerate the problems of ori 2, but this is fundamentally correct.Ori 1 feels like a far more concrete, bolder and finely crafted approach. They had the unique save mechanic, they maximized its qualities once you have the middle-lategame movement, among others.It had a much higher consistency in quality of the backgrounds because every place is highly detailed with lots of depth. Ori 2 has 3D graphics, but what good is that when it has so many areas that feel like corridors where nothing extends out further in the backgrounds, everything is horribly blurry, and most places that compete with the art quality of 1 are either few specific regions that feel disproportionally high quality, or dedicated "HEY HERES THE COOL BACKGROUND" rooms. BF straight up has no place that looks bad, WOTW has some specific rooms that look horribly uglyOri 2 has a metric fuckton of cut content all overOri 2 has some fun with the addition of weapons, its neat. But the bosses are very anemic compared to what the player can do. Its so pathetic how the player has an extremely fluid and fast potent moveset, and most bosses are utter slowfucks, with the worst example being Shriek, the final boss itself, that is absolutely pathetically slow. With the exception of her last phase, which is where its actually kino. Not to mention the terrible bland healing. It also gets brought down so incredibly hard by stupid decisions that should have been an easy fix, like the player being limited to three slotsOri 1 has a much more well interconnected world than 2 because 1's world wasnt build around constant teleporting.Ori 1 has a much better balance of damage, health and etc once you get past the early game click spam. Ori 2 progression is just fundamentally fucked. Even on Hard, youre inevitably super tanky if you slightly bother hunting upgrades
>>683814901Sounds like you just suck at the game. Some people are too impatient to deal with crafting. For those people, they can find new level appropriate weapons in the shop as they progress. I forget when and how the shop updates their inventory exactly. I think perhaps, when you find a new alchemy cook book? Well whenever it updates, it does update. So you just have to check in periodically to see what they have in store. Their selection is going to be more limited than the crafting selection. The shop gets the "basic" weapons for each new tier. The rest you have to craft. So if you don't feel like crafting, then just purchase the newest basic shit. It should be strong enough to keep you going. If you don't have enough money, then just sell some of your loot. Crafting items in particular sell for a lot. But again, only do this if you don't give a shit about crafting.
>>683815994shit, just realized I failed to reply to you >>683812864
>>683813638Last Faith's dialogue and story genuinely felt like a chatbot wrote it. If you want bosses and exploration then play it until you get bored.
>>683816697While O2 mostly jobs on the bosses, it has way too many escape sequences that feel far below the level of quality of Ori 1'sO2 ruins a lot of what was nice about 1's movement, like momentum when you let go off the movement keys, and mantaining speed. Its funny how the abilities keep from 1 all have proper momentum, if you bash in one direction and release your keys, you will stay moving far faster than your typical speed. Now try grappling yourself across a huge distance and perfect angle to get huge speed : Your momentum will completely die and you will fall like a stone if you let go off the movement keys. Chaining light bursts? nope no more, you only get one. etc etcI can understand people thinking both games are on the same level, but people who say O2 is a "total direct upgrade to O1" just feels like a low iq take and that theyre being dumbfucks that never could truly comprehend some of the prettiness and qualities of Ori 1 in the first place. I dont comprehend how people call it a direct upgrade in gameplay.And it was clear that a lot of the talent from Ori 1 was gone from the dev team, yet they were still riding off of of it. Too bad its completely gone after O2, no longer the developer's next game is looking like an absolute waste of potential
>>683789826>I find I'm an absolute sucker for art style + aesthetics + good soundtrack and they both hit in all these dimensions.>I love exploration and getting good at traversing the map but I also want the difficulty to ramp up towards the end and give the player significant challenges to overcomeif you haven't alreadyThey don't really have the "find powerup to add to arsenal, then go use powerup to get to new place and find new powerup" thing.But really give demonsouls and darksouls 1 a try if you haven't already.
>>683794194I thought gal guardians had co-op
>>683797015how is sotn not on that list?
>>683816060Yeah, we had a bit of fun with it a few weeks ago. We did a normal run and a randomizer run.https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/682555267
>>683817465>p2 of 2its on castlevania chronicles? (ts on p1 of the pic) otherwise i don't know i just save those for when i have nothing to play check them>can't post p1 pic because it considers p2 a duplicate
>>683817787Post it on some hosting, there are a shitton of them.
>>683816689if you like Zelda 2 or Simon's Quest you should play Infernax>>683816825no worries, thanks for the explanation, sounds a lot better than what I thought it was
>>683815994>When you press the attack button, they shoot a light at enemies. If it the light hits, it adds a counter to the enemy. Then, when you press the other button, it deals damage in proportion to how high the counter is.That's just Gunvolt's tag and zap mechanic.
>>683819319Uh, sure. I never played Gunvolt. But I'll take your word on it.
>>683755806The first oneI like exploration the most. I like fucking around and finding secrets, relaxing and shit. I've seen some of these games that are almost purely combat focused and progression seems a bit too linear despite being a metroidvania.I also like being able to sequence break and use my abilities to reach places I'm not supposed to visit at a specific point in time. As of late I've been playing Rusted Moss and it does have some of that. I've reached some difficult extra areas fairly early on because I love fucking around without the upgrade that would make things less painful.
>>683817349It does but it's not a metroidvania.>b-but the Steam tagsSteam users are clueless retards, the game's a linear action platformer with optional alternate paths leading to the same goal.
>>683755806>More vania? (or more precisely more RPG-like, grinding, farming, experience levels, equipment, etc.)More vania for sure. Especially bloodstained which has tons of unbalanced RPG elements. I really like the progression from being able to hyperfocus on shit and gaining insane levels of power.
>>683819319>That's just Gunvolt's tag and zap mechanic.And of rogue class in that Van Helsing diabloid. And of rogue class in WoW. And of Kalista character in LoL. And, i think, in several other games.
>>683819479>I also like being able to sequence breakThats a good one. Bloodstained only really has one main sequence break, but its really easy so a lot of casuals end up doing that and getting slightly fucked. That said bloodstained gets progressively easier the more shit you unlock, sequence breaking into a high level area just gives you access to more shards and higher level materials for upgrading them.
>>683813939The last faith is nothing like blasphemous apart from the visuals. Why do people come to this site and speak with such confidence about games they haven‘t played?
>>683755806I like either, just don't try to do both at once like Hollow Knight did
>>683773918Any good recommendations?
>>683820158i found it to be very similar, even down the way combat felt sluggish and enemy encounters were designed.I played through and finished the game last december, stop your stupid assumptions
>>683820158>>683820446I see where he makes the comparisons to be fair, but I also felt like it stood on its own as a unique thing. You both have valid points.
>>683808405I dont like your taste. I think its directly opposite to mine.
>>683820269Not him, and my favourite parts of the genre are the ones with overloaded, overpowered progression systems like bloodstained, sotn, Aria of sorrow, and touhou luna nights with the timestopping. You might like more MVs with more constrained progression, as all of these games have progression systems that really quickly get out of control.
>>683820446Ok, let‘s compare them>blasphemous has 1 weapon only while the last faith has more than 10 with unique special attacks>blasphemous has no movement upgrades while the last faith has the classic metroidvania ones>blasphemous has enemies with contact damage while the last faith doesn‘t and lets you walk through enemies which changes combat a lot>blasphemous is nonlinear, letting you do the 3 major areas at the start in any order while the last faith is more linearThe last faith is closer to castlevania than it is to blasphemous if i‘m being honest
>>683821051>Touhou Luna NightsBased, really enjoyed that one and bought the other metroidvania from Team Ladybig, Record of Lodoss War-Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth- (quite the mouthfull amiright) during the summer sale.Still have to get around to playing it though
>>683821359*Ladybug
>>683821359have you played SMT synchronicity?
>>683816689Abathor just came out. Play that Rasthan-like.
>>683821523Added to the list, thanks!
>>683757597So Kirby?
Things I like in metroidvanias:>Fuckhuge maps with variety>Getting lost without having to break the game>Enjoyable/fast backtracking>Upgrades that do more than one thing>Lots of secretsThings I don't care about / don't like in metroidvanias:>Emphasis on RPG mechanics>Bosses everywhere>Multiple upgrades that just do something "slightly better">Multiple areas that look the exact same and only encourage constantly checking the map>Randomness, "rogue" elements>Spikes everywhere>Lengthy areas where the gimmick is "it's dark and you can't see anything other than your fucking character">Character moving extremely slow until you get an upgrade
>>683757805You aren’t talking about the Robot wants series right? Robot wants Kitty/Puppy/Fishy/Ice creamThey are all short metroidvanias made using flash. Main character is absolutely a grey robot
>>683816689I like the Wonderboy in Monster World variety myself
>>683822559>I like the Wonderboy in Monster World variety myselfincredibly based
I've played a few and here is how I would rate them:>Hollow Knight - 9/10Great world and the biomes feel really different which creates a meaningful sense of progression. Moment to moment combat isn't very good but exploration feels great. More of a platformer than an action game outside of bosses (many of which are really cool). Good amount of secrets, many of which are meaningful and useful.>Metroid: Zero Mission - 8/10Very fun. Not much else to say. I never finished Super Metroid because I found the controls a bit too floaty and had a big backlog. ZM controlled nicely and was fun to progress through. Secrets weren't as interesting/rewarding but I feel that way about most 2D Metroid games.>Ender Lillies - 7/10Thoroughly average. Music is nice but I don't know if it's the lack of color or what but every area felt the same. I lost a lot of enjoyment on CotM for a similar reason but if I don't have the different levels 'feeling' different I don't get the feeling I'm making meaningful progress or exploring a world. Everything in EL feels like the dingy insides of a castle even the swamp/outdoor areas. Combat is neat if a bit clunky at times. Bosses are the standout part of the gameplay for sure. I also felt that the level design leans way too much into endurance rooms with lots of enemies but very little into unique or interesting platform placement. Many rooms feel very similar for this reason.>Aria of Sorrow - 9/10Really fun. Lots of cool secrets.>Circle of the Moon - 7/10Neat concepts with the card system and some decent platforming (expected in a CV game) but the environments are too bland. Bosses were cool.>Dawn of Sorrow - 9/10Art style is a huge downgrade but and the seal system is silly. Other than that it is an improvement over Aria in every way. DS allowing for map on the bottom screen is an insane QoL improvement.
>>683822846>Portrait of Ruin - 7/10I don't know why people like this one so much. Environments are repeated and the lack of interconnected world harms it. Tag team against Drac + Death is absolutely wild and some of the other bosses are cool but the music, enemy design, and upgrade/progression options all feel really limited compared to both DoS and OoE. Worst of the DS Vanias for sure.>Order of Eclessia - 8/10I enjoyed this but it had pacing problems for sure. Level based world felt like a better realized version of what PoR was trying to do. Boss fights were great particularly Albus, Giant Enemy Crab and STUPID DISCIPLE!!! Moment to moment gameplay was good but not great.>Bloodstained - 9/10Just Aria/Dawn with a new coat of paint. Great game. In-game art style (models) weren't to my taste and some abilities were too strong and while most SotN inspired games have busted shit, it's usually harder to find than in Boodstained.>Afterimage - 10/10Call me a Chinese shill if you want but this scratched the itch perfectly. Shameless ripoff of Hollow Knight but includes enough new systems and genuinely interesting level design that I am willing to forgive it. Loads of extremely well hidden or cryptic secrets and fresh biomes that you explore a LOT. Upgrades feel meaningful and are necessary for later game challenges because the bosses do not fuck around. Only real complaint is there is a bunch of shit that seems very much unfinished/sequel or DLC bait that I spent way too long trying to figure out what to do with only to learn 'you cannot do anything with this'. Genuinely cannot recommend this one enough.>Deedlit in Wonderland - 6/10I don't know anything about Lodoss War so I played this 'just' as a Metroidvania and it was bland. Very short and upgrades felt trivial. Environment is pretty samey all the way through as well. There are some neat ideas with the element system that remind me a bit of Ikaruga but execution was too basic. Good potential.
>metroidvania without a mapWhat were they thinking?
>>683823010I think a metroidvania where you have to draw the map yourself would be fun
>>683823231play metroid 1 and 2 and play Simon's quest
>>683823010see >>683791747 shame there's no ingame map though, seriously
>>683762110This is the correct take. Also it’s the only possible take. Metroidvanias are fucking nothing like castlevania besides the platforming, which could also be shared with Mario or megaman or literally any other 2D platformer. The vania game in the metroidvania moniker refers to Symphony of the Night, the game that tried as hard as possible to be a Super Metroid-like.The vania attatchment has only brought bloated garbage gamedev ideas to the genre and it needs to die NOW.
>>683811069>i still can't believe people like ori 1 more than 2.I prefer Ori1 over Ori2, but 1 isn't really metroidvania, just platformer. 2 felt like it was giving no room to breathe, I got upgrade and 10min later I get another one. Quick pace should be good thing, but somehow I didn't like it in 2. I really liked bash in 1, but in 2 like half hour later you just get teleport. Still some nice platforming sections.
>>683814340it's the best only if you haven't played gba and ds ones
>>683825408Dread was pure cringekino
>>683816286Sounds like Axion Verge, sadly the weapon selection doesn't make me feel any more powerful.
>>683819498>linear action platformer with optional alternate paths leading to the same goal.ok but what do I play if I want more of this since I loved gal guardians
>>683825665
