>>683793718
>encourages players to not try to "mow the lawn" in an open world game
why would I want to encourage that? isn't that the whole point of open world games?

>>683793718
>mow the lawn
What do you mean by this? Do players go back and forth in rows when playing open world games?

>>683794282
>why would I want to encourage that?
Because a specific game experience you want to convey doesn't gel with that sort of player behavior
>isn't that the whole point of open world games?
No

>>683794394
I don't understand why you'd design an open world game and then limit the player's ability to do open world things in it, can you explain?

>>683794564
You know how a complex RPG has all these options and branching paths but only lets you do one decision per choice per playthrough and if you want to see the rest you have to replay the game?

>>683794715
Yeah, so you want players to only be able to do a certain amount of things in the open world and locking out the rest until another playthough?

>>683794920
Not necessarily locking, just discouraging them from treating the world like they would e.g. a small level in Spyro or Mario. Covering every inch of the world and turning over every rock makes it feel trivial and gamey and not like a real fictional world you can get immersed in, so you're trying to discourage players from ruining the feel for them like you would by e.g. discouraging them for looking up spoilers or guides.

Add competition, AI players doing the same thing, either you get to it first or you beat the shit out of them for it, but there's so many of them that they get to at least some shit before you do

Shit, I just turned it into an RTS

World is falling apart. Visiting one section makes another fall to hell and become unvisitable. Or increases that areas difficulty so it's only accessible near end game. Done.

>>683794715
>You know how a complex RPG
Well, you just proved that complex RPGs should never be open worlds
Stop chasing the open world meme just because it's what normalniggers play

>>683795124
Complicated, I feel like the only way of guaranteeing it is by making the rewards not worth the hassle.
>>683795131
I think Might and Magic (World of Xeen?) did this where opposing AI parties would go around solving quests so you'd have to kill them for the quest items/rewards.

>>683795261
You missed the point of the analogy

>>683795124
>Covering every inch of the world and turning over every rock makes it feel trivial
Don't fucking make an open world then. Make a handcrafted world with loads of shit to find

>>683795124
That's retarded. If you have to actively fight player psychology you have failed as a dev.
Human minds are straight up programmed to do two things
>Find the path of least resistance
>Get the optimal experience
Your method of restricting people from seeing everything won't discourage guides, it would do the exact opposite and prompt everyone to just look up what's worth getting and the perfect path.
Devs trying to be quirky and going "Take THAT, gamer!" has never worked out well in the history of the medium, it straight up always backfires.

>>683795407
Fighting player psychology is literally the entire point of game design

>>683794715
>You know how a complex RPG has all these options and branching paths but only lets you do one decision per choice per playthrough and if you want to see the rest you have to replay the game?

50% of people don't even finish the game let a lone repay it, that number is sub 20% of players
What you are talking about is something like soul games where in replays you can visit some areas in new game+ due to having items or levels needed to ignore the normal systems and get to new areas sooner. That said I don't think you can make this work in a way that people will like because when people hear "open world" they are wanting to do whatever they want and the moment you pull away from that you are just going to get sour players that will shit on the game for not encouraging open world. And a game did do a open world that encouraged you not to clean up the map: Metal Gear Solid 5.

>>683795450
Actually, according to OP, the point of game design is to make a game in a well-established genre (open world) without thinking critically whether it's the best choice for your game. Just pick whatever sells the most. Then try to somehow bend that genre into something that resembles what you actually wanna design

>>683795479
>50% of people don't even finish the game let a lone repay it, that number is sub 20% of players
Nothing wrong with that, not everyone is meant to see every atom of the game's content, it makes them feel rich and alive rather than simple like short linear games where every player sees everything the game has to offer

>>683795338
>Might and Magic (World of Xeen?)
It's not it. World of Xeen never had anything like this. Probably the closest thing in M&M series is scavenger hunt on emerald island in MM7 but there were no any opposing party (alive at least)

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>>683794332
make weapons unlockable from hub and give entire tree of various weapons to explore but each branch needs different reosources
kinda like monhun is doing
Something like you do hard water dungeon and get a water ancient device of Atlantis, you can invest it into water splashing axe or bubble of death spell from the tree
then you can make a branch with unholy water axe so if someone is playing with unholy builds and not water ones, he profits too
Sure in the end that would require shitton of combinations but that would also benefit the game that you have the options to chose from

>>683793718
Have timed objectives that players have to move to other parts of the map to complete, that allows for plenty of time to explore, but not comb the earth.

>>683795535
>you should absolutely never ever EVER challenge genre conventions or try to create new ones
Bet you were mad you can't shoot people with the gun in Portal since it's an FPS? Don't work in game design

>>683794332
The solution to this for me is always to give passive permanent bonii. I know most people hate +3% to damage absorption or whatever but I love it
Also, the XP you get from beating the cave's boss should be worth it on their own

>>683793718
>xhe develops ANOTHER open world game
fuck open worldslop, its objectively worse than hand made, deliberate linear design and always has been, 'cept minecraft I suppose.

>>683795124
>discouraging them for looking up spoilers or guides
You are not beating that. Millions read guides to games before they even buy them
>>683795450
game design is crafting experiences that engage and entertain the player

>>683795638
>you should absolutely never ever EVER create any game that isn't an open world so you can easily market to normalniggers
Yeah you have a real passion for game design
>>683795709
No shut up, my game can't be good unless it sells 20 million copies, so I have to make it open world. Actual game design is retarded

>>683795553
I think the anon's point is more that in terms of making a game with this kind of restriction is most won't even know it was there or give a shit about it.

>>683795580
Artificer gaming, make it now anon.

>>683795580
>Something like you do hard water dungeon and get a water ancient device of Atlantis, you can invest it into water splashing axe or bubble of death spell from the tree
>then you can make a branch with unholy water axe so if someone is playing with unholy builds and not water ones, he profits too
And all of them are inferior to just making the weapon with the biggest number, thereby fully completing the Monster Hunter inspiration

It sounds like you just wanna make Witcher 2 (which is great). What benefit does your game gain from being open world?

>>683793718
The original ps2 version of Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy had a worse and glitchy version of this, where the door that locks is between the save point and the level + boss. If you need to reload, whether from dying or from just quitting the door is permanently locked in your game and you’re now softlocked. It was very easy to fix in new releases like the GoG release but in the ps2 era you were screwed though you could mail in your save and they’d fix it but bleh.

>>683793718
anon you can't just put quotes around random phrases and expect people to 100% understand. That's really "repatriating the ointment".

>>683795730
>You are not beating that. Millions read guides to games before they even buy them
That's okay, it's on you as a designer to make them not want that and as long as you gave it your best shot it's good

>game design is crafting experiences that engage and entertain the player
By fighting their psychology, you yourself said that humans are programmed to find the path of least resistance yet games are about simulating dangerous and deadly situations

>>683795843
How the fuck do you even accidentally make a door that stays permanently locked, if the savegame is before the door ever got locked?

>>683795857
You don't know how to mow a lawn?

>>683795569
Hmm, was it Wizardry then? I seem to recall it being M&M but I could be wrong.
I read about it on the RPG Codex so maybe either I or the poster were drunk or it was something a lot more obscure.

>>683795757
>he thinks the only purpose of open world in a game is marketing
Yeah don't work in game design

>>683795779
That's okay, you're not making the game for the people that don't care

>>683795946
if you mean that players shouldn't overly analyze a game that is 99% empty and devoid of content you are beyond help.

>>683796010
>I wanna create game with feature X, which is incompatible with open worlds
>I wanna make it an open world, how do I do this?
Yes, you wanna make it an open world because that's the most popular genre. Kill yourself, no more (yous)

>>683795709
>>683795757
the funni thing is, while normalfags CLAIM to want openworldslop and they CLAIM linear = bad
they continue to buy games that have linear, hand made, deliberate design and praise them for that very design, yet being normalfags means they cant figure out that their whole concept of linear = bad was proven wrong, every time.
Then they go play openworld sloppa #256, tell the world its a 10/10, then never beat it because they got bored and quit.

>>683796098
>I want to create an FPS where you don't shoot people, which is incompatible with FPSs
>"NOOOO YOU CAN'T DO THAT ALL FPS GAMES HAVE TO BE ABOUT SHOOTIGN PEOPLE"
Don't work in game design

>>683795479
>50% of people don't even finish the game
This is incredibly important to remember, because those 50% still include people who love the game. Which is fair enough in some cases but you gotta keep in mind that the guy who praises the combat as the best ever or whatever never got far enough into the game to get bored of the gimmicks
>>683796109
>tell the world its a 10/10, then never beat it because they got bored and quit.
Exactly.

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>>683793718
Every staircase having items underneath

>>683794332
If the boss encounter is fun and challenging then the reward shouldn't matter much.

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>>683795878
>it's on you as a designer to make them not want that
You can't, most people won't even play games unless they are hand held. It sucks but there is nothing you can do about it.


>By fighting their psychology
No, fighting it is a really good way to make them to put down the game and just call it the shit it is. You have to feed and reward it. Your mind needs to be thinking ways to encourage their interests in wants.

>you yourself
I didn't their are a few of us here.

>humans are programmed to find the path of least resistance
That's a midwit take at best, humans are encouraged to seek reward over punishment. Sometimes that's least resistance, other times that's getting a major power up doing the most resistance. The idea is they are having fun.

>yet games are about simulating dangerous and deadly situations
Some are some are not, but pause and think why they don't do real dangerous and deadly situations is because they want a fun environment of low risk and punishment.

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>>683793718
For my (not open world) game that I will surely one day get back to making, the plan is to put some random shit in the player's inventory if they press the interact key anywhere that isn't something with actual interactions. This stuff will be completely useless and just be there to clog up their inventory, as a reminder not to look for secret items literally everywhere.

>>683796085
You are not making it for anybody considering your idea.

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Fix pic related without making mages just archers flinging fireballs instead of arrows
Couldn't find a bigger pic so here's the tl;dr: Mages in games are squishy at the start and outperformed by warriors, but as they get access to more spells their powers grow exponentially while the warriors only get linearly better

>>683793718
>How would you design a game that encourages players to not try to "mow the lawn" in an open world game without time limits
You just need two bridges, and one collapses once you cross the other.

>>683796493
>later on you get an upgrade that makes you traverse the world faster and also lets you jump over the chasm where the bridge collapsed
KINO

>>683795791
give water debuff that increases chance of being shocked
and make unholy disabling regen
covering a robot in water and then zapping his balls would be much more efficient than cursing the soulless automaton that is not going to throw a holy healing spell
truth be told it entirely depends on the game setting, he asked for solution and i've provided one
monhun is very shallow in this term because like you said, biggest number and crits matter

>>683794564
>can you explain?
doing open world right multiplies required effort exponentially so no games are truly open world. they all have locked levels and puzzles that demand powerups and unlocks from other zones, effectively making them linear

>>683796375
>You can't
You can, all the best games do a great job of fighting player impulses

>>683796375
>You can't,
https://www.designer-notes.com/game-developer-column-17-water-finds-a-crack/

>>683796426
they'll just cheat engine unlimited inventory space, collect everything, then review bomb your game if they brick their pc.

>>683797503
And that's a GOOD thing. I'm not dealing with shitty design choices

I think then only game that ever bothered to acknowledge the player psychology and directly address it I've ever played was Deadly Premonition.
>Oh hey Zach, the museum's about to close for the day. But I know how you're a free spirit and love to explore. It's all right Zach, I'm sure we can still meet up at the museum tomorrow, if you want to keep wandering around for a bit.


If some character in a game acknowledges how I'm playing and tries to persuade me to play differently that's probably the only way I'd consider changing what I'm doing.

>>683793718
Let them mow.

>>683794394
That is my playstyle. You have no say in the matter.

>>683797938
>some character in a game acknowledges how I'm playing and tries to persuade me to play differently
that's called railroading anon

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>>683798285
No it isn't. Railroading means you have no control

>>683798398
kino

>>683798398
This is an expert.

>>683798206
No one makes games for you autismo

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what does the goop do?

>>683796481
martial/caster divide is quite easy to fix; fighters just need to fulfill the role of tank/dps more than mages who just tend to be glass cannons, fulfills the role as a summoner that works as a stand in for a warrior, or solves issues through different means (identification)

role playing games need to put the role back into them imo, but the special magic nerds feel like they should be good at everything, bring back spell failure.

>>683796481
Pathfinder already fixed this.
A strong enough melee character will just massacre everything and resist every spell.
A champion can one round Deskari, a mage can barely do anything except with MAYBE the few spells he really focused on. the crpg WotR even had to massively buff casters, despite the original archmage being utterly broken(access to any spell on his list as if it were quickened for 1 MP)

>>683799223
>a mage can barely do anything
So you "fixed" the problem by reversing it, good job

>>683793718
This is actually a huge issue in all games, not just open world, and it only has one solution. NPCs need to actually move. For instance, say you're playing a shooter or survival-horror type with limited inventory and a box where you can store resources. Why would you not go back to the box after every room of enemies? If your inventory is full, go back so you can deposit all the loot on the ground. If your inventory isn't full, go back to stock up. The only reason not to is it's tedious, or you lock doors behind the player to save them from themselves.
It's only solved by having enemies repopulate areas you leave, or by having your objective move so leaving it uncompleted results in starting over each time you come back. Of course, players would hate this. Game design isn't that useful because the average person wants a little of everything but never so much it gets in their way, they cut a straight line through everything and if they can't they give up. The industry acceptance of this is what's doomed us to the worst timeline.

>>683795226
Then there's no reason to make it open world, just make it a linear game with some branching path

the method by which you understand you are playing trash is when the developer attempts to influence what you do next, or even force your actions for some time

talking npcs
npcs giving you orders
npcs can't be killed or ignored
you are stuck in a narrative sequence
cutscene
you have to run away from enemies
you are facing respawning enemies
there is a 'gimmick' that suspends the normal game logic

these are some examples of 'oh I'm playing trash, guess I'll uninstall now'
why do you think nintendo stays so relevant, in spite of the fact that they are still making kiddie trash, decades later?
its because they respect the agency of players

>>683799547
>average gamer whose first game was Skyrim or any other """""""""""open world"""""""""" slop that was released since then

>>683799547
From what I can gather from your post, the only good game ever is New Vegas

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>>683799547
>its because they respect the agency of players
No they don't lol
>can't go back left in Super Mario Bros
>can't kill NPCs in Zelda
>can't skip tutorials or cutscenes in any of their games
>enemies respawn endlessly
>one-off gimmicks galore
>no player choices ever the narrative is always the same

The Elder Scrolls solved the "mowing the lawn" problem before it even existed. Just have NPCs give out quests that give players a reason to go to different spots in the world.

>>683799952
well I'm only taling about the open world zeldas and mario odyssey
I haven't played any other nintendo games

>>683799960
mowing the lawn is not the problem, its the solution to what is wrong with modern game design
you morons are responding to a moronic question because you really don't know any better
you actually think that a game like half life 2 or cawaddoody is good, even though there isn't a single aspect of its design that respects your own decision making

>>683795696
>bonii

>>683793718
When the grass regrows right away I'm less inclined to clear out a patch

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>>683796481
Mages are an inherently self-defeating concept. If they access a resource non-mages can't, you can build a simple magic item that spins faster and faster and uses up that resource until the magic goes away -wheel stops spinning, slaughter all mages. If mages don't use a unique resource, applying that power to a form crafted by evolution would be more effective and physical stats triumph. Either way, the ability to create magic items and potions negates the importance of stats, because realistically the wealthy would be the strongest, which flies in the face of the wizard's journey.
The quadtratic wizard idea represents the only reasonable alternative, which is that people just don't become wizards because it takes a long time, so wizards don't have significant attention.

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>>683800676
>>683796481

honestly this would be my ideal. if at each point in progression the power would alternate, it could bring interesting dynamic to multi character groups, and (ideally) having power be equal near the end of the game's progression

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Post more challenges this is fun
>>683793718
Make enemies not respawn unless you leave the zone or "pass time". That way you are encouraged to sweep the path clear so repeated trips are mob free, but people trying to grind drops can still hunt for items.
>>683794332
Give a better indication of what kind of loot you're gonna get from the dungeon. Like, put magic-geared items in a dungeon protected by magical creatures, or poisoned weapons in a spider's den, or knightly weapons protected by knights, etc. Even better, make the dungeon designed in such a way that it's challenging specifically for the kind of build the item would be used in (like a fire weapon protected by fire-resistant foes)
>>683796295
Don't put items under every staircase?
>>683796481
Make warriors capable of becoming superhumanly powerful as well. On the other hand, this isn't an issue that really props up in gameplay outside of d&d, and even then the warrior is still capable of just shanking the silly wizard.

>>683802046
Not quite what you're looking for but spells and melee usually alternate between being the strongest in Final Fantasy games

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>>683796481
>blue: magic
>red: melee
>green: ranged

OSRS does this and I like it, although there's occasional complaining about magic being a bit of a joke until you're in god tier gear

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>>683796481
No TTRPG with playable casters and martials in equal footing have that issue (that I know of, and I know a shit-ton), save D&D and its successors.

And D&D has that issue because:

1. GG wanted Vancian magic because of the omnipresent S&S inspiration of oD&D.
2. GG didn't understand how Vancian magic was naturally balanced in S&S and implemented something that wasn't balanced to begin with in D&D.
3. GG didn't understand how his bad implementation of Vancian casting would interact with greedy players (and actually profusely apologized for his mistake)
4. AD&D, D&D 3.0 and 3.5 each buffed magic because "magic is fun!", removing all previous few limitations and adding metamagics and retarded feats.

This isn't a natural problem that arise when caster and martials coexist. This is purely a D&D problem, and because it has become the standard and the norm, it has tainted the rest of pretty much everything since then.

>>683796481
Diablo 2.
Everyone uses mana and casts spells.
Just a matter of channeling it into weird spells or to enhance physical combat.

>>683802795
Can you give an example of a system which uses vancian magic which doesn't have the flaws you are saying exist in D&D?

>>683794332
>Items can be broken down into components and rebuilt, ie special effects or modifiers can be harvested
>Items are all dynamic (ie Noita) and simply randomised or created as loot.
>Weapons to be infused to change their stat affiliation (souls)

>>683793718
Players are happy to pursue main objectives if side objectives etc remain available with progression. The mow the lawn mentality is a manifestation of completionist autism as many are willing to 100% 1 playthrough but not 100% 2 playthroughs even if the time investment is the same or less. I like the idea of games that heavily invest content in the postgame where the main plot concludes 'halfway' in a linear fashion but unlocks the map.

>>683796295
Mix in some instant death traps and a note that says "someones been taking my stair loot, fuckers gonna pay" for some ebic environmental storytelling

>>683796481
A class that operates without mana and a class that consumes mana or another resource to act can immediately coexist in a semi balanced state. The wizard has access to stronger abilities but maybe the tradeoff is either that these abilities have some condition or they cost more resources while the warrior has a more consistent DPS but lacks technical options. BG3 managed it reasonably well with mage classes having some incredible support and combo potential limited by spell slots and cast points. As long as your wizard class remains relatively vulnerable to other classes they can be almost as glass cannonish as you want.

>>683799446
>playing games well and thoroughly is a problem, the solution is making games no one will like
I don't understand the combination of arrogance and stupidity you have to have.

>>683794332
Like 90% of the rpgs I've played that let you customize stats overwhelmingly favor specializing in one attacking stat. Having a mixed spread is more often than not a skill issue.

>>683794282
>play my game! u can do anything
>noo ur not supposed to do that!

>>683804601
Minmax is bad when a player can use other means to offset the min part of the build or overload the max to breaking point, as is the case with a lot of games, probably to make it more difficult to softlock games (ie you're too min in HP to survive any damage realistically)
>You can make the optimal weapons hybrids with mixed stat requirements and combined arms effects.
>highest performance weapons with a singular stat affiliation can have negative effects (such as HP debuffs) or no special effects to still allow minmaxing while creating tangible weaknesses the class cant easily offset

>>683804153
If you're that proud of literally backtracking an increasing amount after every single moment of gameplay, just fucking staring at the screen for days as you turn every game into a silent walking simulator and call it "playing well and thorough" you are unironically autistic and you needn't join the discussion because you're just going to spend 1/3 your life playing World of Tanks and nothing else anyways.
If you want to actually play a game well, if you're challenging yourself and the game presents something which is both optimal and monumentally stupid, I would be angry. I would rather the game signal to me that I don't need to do that in order to clear the highest difficulty.
I do honestly think it's a problem that I want to play good games but I share an audience base with an army of madmen who will ensure I never get to have fun.

>>683804975
The biggest issue I find is that what few games do try to encourage hybrid damage do so poorly. Most characters that have the ability to both use, say, melee attacks and magic will have 5/5 physical atk/magic attack as if that's supposed to balance them with a warrior that has 10/0 or a mage that has 0/10. The hybrid character ends up sucking dick at doing both and gets benched in favor of the specialists. They really need to be like 7/7 or 8/8 to compete, or like you suggested have access to special effects to make up for the power difference. Rarely see that happen however.

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>>683793718
Make it like the harpy feathers and gorgon eyes in God of War where you have multiple chances to find and complete mini objectives but once you’ve done them all you just receive money/bonus exp.

Example: Collect 50 Korok shits total but there’s 150 locations to find Korok shits. Once you’ve collect 50 from any of the locations the remaining 100 just have a 200 rupee there instead

>>683805563
all this because people can move freely. just play arcade shmups like the other trannies

>>683794332
The first Diablo already had this solved where loot for other classes never dropped or was available. Of course Diablo 2 went back on this.

>>683805743
Dragon quest games with classes do this perfectly

>>683794332
Exchange it for unique upgrade materials. Higher value of the item - better materials.

>>683794715
barely anyone replays games you dumb nigger, we all know what they mean by 'choose new decisions in new game+!!'
you get the most minute of differences and maybe an ending slide is different otherwise you are actually just playing the exact same game twice for 0 reason other than to hear a couple sentences, it's a joke, i'd rather just look up the responses online then play through the entire game again only to find out the only difference is RIGHT AFTER YOU CHOOSE THE CHOICE in the form of ONE SENTENCE and then it devolves back to it's original script because they don't have the time or budget or WANT to spend money on that shit
players are retarded and will say that it's totally fine to do a new game+ for the most minor of changes when they themselves literally only played the game once and they don't care about it so they never replay it

>>683806546
The point is that you can customize your experience at the cost of not seeing some alternate route, same principle can be applied to the playable spaces

>>683807086
Name, ONE GAME, that did this well.

>>683807232
New Vegas

>>683794332
Make the staff function as a quarterstaff, allowing you to use it as a melee weapon with some neat magical bonuses

>>683806149
Thanks, talking to you was worth my time. I think the internet has fried your brain, see about getting it replaced.

>>683793718
>without time limits
GUYS, DON'T SAY THE SOLUTION OKAY?! JUST DON'T!

>>683807296
Are you talking about the factions? I don't agree with that opinion, you can do a majority of every factions quests before the 'point of no return' along with getting their safehouses, but it certainly does fit what I asked for. Still suffers from replaying an entire game for a few different sentences.

>>683806274
Never played those games, how do they handle it?

>>683807696
I'm not really sure what you're getting at but i'm curious. Anyways, your post made me think that putting a time limit in place would solve the issue. Some of my favorite moments in gaming is when I exit a room and get a clear sight of how far the objective is and I realize there's not even enough time left to walk unimpeded, so I put my controller down and just feel giddy thinking about how five rooms back I should've done things differently. but I couldn't know at the time. Surprise mechanics wrapped up in a package with a timer.

>>683794332
let the player still use it but its not as effective as if you had the stat requirements. so lets say spellcasting is tied to int but since you have less int than required the wand will only do half damage or misfire. then the player can choose to pursue increasing that stat too see its full potential or get rid of it. and then if the player had to raise their stats for that weapon they also get a bonus effect on it for their hard work they wouldnt get otherwise if they did have the required stats

>>683794715
Idk I just read up a guide and check which option gives the highest affinity points for my waifu

>>683808070
It's a solved problem. Dead Rising did it and it works great. Hell, even real life works this way. Why don't you become an expert martial artist, race car driver and astronaut? There's just not enough time for that.

>>683795638
you misunderstand fps with first person camera. plus portal was always advertised as a puzzle game, not a shooter. what was that post even supposed to be? proving how retarded (You) are?

Scaling difficulty based on loot obtained. So it's not a race of speed but there are still content limits. Tie player power to that loot, instead of infinite level grinding.
Unlock stronger equipment behind linear progression. Players that spread too wide doing side content will get outscaled and find themselves on a harder difficulty. Progressing forward the story will immediately resolve the imbalance.

>>683796295
regenerating health

>>683793718
Have a character in the intro or in the first area outright state that picking every single piece of litter up is gay/pointless.
Have a hard limit on the resources you can store, assuming that's what the collectibles are. Like only 1000 wood, only 500 stone, only 125 metal, max 1000 bullets, 10k in cash, etc.
Have the resources you pick up in an area spawn asshole-ripping punishment enemies. So grinding out one spot makes a bulletproof ohko tank spawn and beeline towards your position. No reward for killing it.
All of the above is pointless and even bad design though because you're supposed to have fun doing 100% of the map if you want, it's more of a dev problem inserting crappy filler where it's not wanted or needed and even trying to punish you for picking it up. Or it's even worse if you mean actually limiting quests and other high-effort stuff.
>>683794332
Have the items be 100% unique including the way you play and movesets and allow a stat reroll on NG+.
Allow stat reroll for a good chunk of your money.
Have the items be generic rng items, but sell for a good price. Either use it or turn it into cash to buy something you want.
>>683796295
How is that a problem? Just don't put items there. Or place ones that spawn surprise enemies like in a Serious Sam game.
>>683796481
Warriors get mana bars too. Allow mana to regen from doing melee damage.
Give the mages magic buffs that allow them to perform well in physical combat. Resistance to X damage type, more damage done through melee, burning fists, etc in addition to flinging magic missiles in 5 flavors. Think Witcher potions, prepare for specific encounters. Warriors get permanent buffs on levelups while mages get stronger temporary ones.
Lategame wizards sometimes get aoe death spells and/or single-target nukes that eat up your entire mana bar, give the warriors something like that too. Bigass judgement cut, jumping from enemy to enemy and instakilling a couple, a hulk smash on a single guy etc.

>>683796481
dont just make magic different projectiles. make summons, conjure items, cast debuffs and poisons on enemies, or tear up their character model and call it disfigurement. im surprised no game ever tried that last one

>>683809471
>How is that a problem?
The problem is unoriginality of devs.

>>683794332
Have NPC characters of each character archetype that players can trade/sell/gift items to. This could affect character questlines or reputation.

>>683810062
What is it exactly that you want?
To not put items there for explorative types or place easter eggs, traps and/or useless npcs there?
Or completely block these areas off and hide stuff in different spots like a generic cave behind the waterfall? Give us some ideas, man.

>>683810414
>wow, this item will give me +3 reputation with some shitty NPC

>>683807232
Every cyoa ever made.

>>683794282
Make the world smaller. Open worlds don't need to be huge. If you have to fill it with junk copy pasta like BotW then you made it too big. Maybe have a rule where if 1 out of 3 point of interests aren't unique content then reduce the open world scope to match what you could realistically create. There will be autists who try to 100% your game like me and if it's boring they will just not finish it.

>>683810824
This is correct. Plus, you don't even need to make it a classic open world to make exploring the world fun. Witcher 2 has some of my favorite world design and that's chapter based

>>683796481
Add specialization. with different schools of magic needing different requirments, and have some inherent weaknesses.
Like necromancy solely relying on summons, with no offensive spells of your own.
At max level you should have at best maxxed out less than half of available schools.
Or you can choose to be be a jack of all traits with midling stats on all.

>>683806546
Back in the day they used to.

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>>683809616
World Of Horror. It's a shame people don't see it as the game it is. It's the most fun I've had in a while, but the format makes people assume there's no mechanical solution to a problem besides trial and error.

idk how would you design a game that discourages game designers from being overbearing authoritarian pricks?

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I don't even know if I'd want to play this game I draw...

>>683810824
Yeah. I also think BotW would be a super interesting experience if they removed the Glider function, and accomodated with a smaller world, and then used stuff in the environment to make you travel by air on occasion.

The trend I've noticed in modern Open World sandboxes is that they make the largeness and verticality feel trivial. Spider-Man PS4 is supposed to be grand and epic to fly over buildings but they just have a feature to run directly up by holding R2. They don't want the environment to be cumbersome, but why not? Why not build the gameplay around how finnicky the world is in its most intricate parts?
Zelda BotW is a much more enjoyable adventure if you travel by horse as far as possible, and scale large places by climbing up. I wish there was more level design in the open world to make the climbing feel interesting, or huge risks like not having a glider, and knowing you have to jump across a chasm and climb the rest of the way.

>>683796481
mages are inherently fast burning from the existence of mana

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>>683793718
You make it feel open world, but it’s actually not.
Progressively open up areas. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a single order either.

>>683793718
>without time limits
You're asking for the removal of the best solution. Your areas should have dynamic stories that progress with out without you that bring the world to a different state every playthrough depending on where the player goes as what they do.

>>683818154
Examples of this are simulated game worlds such as X4 and Dwarf Fortress

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>>683793718
Make the content so incredibly dull and tedious that players won't be able to justify wasting their life on all of it.

>>683798964
From a player perspective I expect that’s going to be absolutely miserable slowdown terrain. It looks like tar.

>>683806114
The one issue with this is that the player has no idea how many they actually need, nor do they know how many exist in total.
So they will likely feel compelled to hunt over minutiae anyway, up until they hit the cap suddenly and it flips to not giving a shit.

>>683818562
This, look at Minecraft

>>683793718
Clearly direct the player via roadways, and restrict where they can go. There's a reason GTA games are some of the only good open world games, and that's because the buildings and obstructions serve to restrict and direct the player, while creating memorable landmarks. The player still has ways of exploring rooftops, it's just not a natural part of the gameplay flow.

>>683794332
wait a minute, that sigil