>>690742861>>690778808Wanted to talk about this game briefly (more briefly than I could as evidence by the length of the posts that one of the linked threads is replying to).When attempting to talk about something there are two considerations one has to go through. Whether what one says is meaningful (communicates something real, true, and honest) and whether what one says can be appreciated or understood.This thread is about understanding. In the context of silent hill 2.The two linked posts in this thread are context for a broader point. Reading them. I was met with a conflicted feeling. I just poured out dozens of words of text about the game, why its meaningful to me. What it's strengths are, and what it's weaknesses are. And in both replies. I wasn't just told I was wrong. I was "invalidated". I don't know how to explain some things on /v/ sometimes because there are strong preconceptions (echochamber culture) that disallow certain things from being true even if they're not. Which is why I'm not sure what somebody is thinking when I say "invalidated" because I've seen that word associated with woke people, and rarely used here.If somebody just called me "wrong" I'd be bitter, but it's whatever. But that's not what was communicated here. It was implied that I either DID NOT play the game...or that I misremembered the game...despite giving more specific and particular details about the game, demonstrating an understanding further than either of the people that replied to me.It left me mentally disoriented...here are two people. Telling me that I am a fake fan (despite having objectively played the game) for essentially disagreeing with them...and it's not as if this is an uncommon narrative regarding this game. There is something about Silent Hill 2 fans that comes across as a "holier than thou" attitude. As if they can only determine whether Silent Hill 2 is truly understood or not. Ironic for a game which so many pride for multiple interpretations.
I didn't want to make this thread, because often when you make high effort criticisms of any sort of social media site. If your opinion isn't part of the majority, it's either ignored, delegitimized, or invalidated. But I couldn't stand the absurdity of what the entire discourse around this game feels like.In those threads, I just wanted to talk about Silent Hill 2 earnestly. Give my thoughts on it. And challenge a narrative about the remake. Because I had hopes that it could address some things about the original that are either a detriment to the strengths of the story. Or simply and utterly "meaningless".This game has such a weird and odd reputation. For a game where James LITERALLY WORD FOR WORD out loud effectively says to Pyramid Head "I needed you...to punish me for my sins" It is RIDICULOUS how many people think of this series as some deep super subtle masterpiece layered with subtext. I just...I don't understand why this game has garnered a community and perception like this? Everybody ignores the actual meaningful aspects to jerk themselves off about how the game foreshadows itself by showing Mary's clothes in the apartment? Or James dead and slouched in front of a static TV? Or the stupid hole in a wall meme, or the idea about the monsters being representations of James' psyche...which is what the first game did anyway, so why is it treated as so special in Silent Hill 2?What is OBJECTIVELY unique about Silent Hill 2. ISNT the subtext. ISNT the "serious themes". It is Mary (and James a bit). The game is so UNBELIEVABLY raw and honest when it comes to Mary that I don't think I have ever seen such a genuine display of somebody thoughts in a game as in Mary's letter and dialogue towards the end of the game. This is a character that BARELY shows up for the entire game and you learn and understand more about her than any character in the entire franchise. THAT is the brilliant fucking display of writing, and nuance and complexity.
Not the retarded theories that the ORIGINAL FUCKING CREATORS, CHARACTER DESIGNERS, MONSTER DESIGNERS and everything have to shut down. This entire...almost simulacra surrounding Silent Hill 2 has gotten so absurd, that I have unironically seen people trying to insist that the original creators of Silent Hill 2 don't even understand the game themselves when you've got shit like evidence that the remake character designs are actually more faithful to the original concept art, or people making assumptions that something shown in the remakes is inconsistent with the original. It starts to feel like...what the fuck even is Silent Hill 2 anymore? I don't get it? I don't understand it? Before I played the game. My impression of Silent Hill 2 was everything that was shown to me in YouTube videos. The LE DEEP psychological subtext and references to Freud. Every monster being an expression of James' repressed sexual frustration (lmao??? this is a "theme" btw that adds absolutely nothing to the game and infact takes away from the more intimate moments). Silent Hill 2 became about the "interpretation" rather than the actual substance. It was about finding any and everyway in which something could be viewed as an expression of things we already know about the game. But are suddenly more "alluring" because it's "le hidden".None of this shit actually matters. Not even a single bit of it. The entire game is a very close and personal look at the relationship of Two People. Now, I would love if the other filler characters included also had any depth. But that's besides the point.Ultimately the entire reason I made this thread. Is because I was made to feel like I didn't "understand" Silent Hill 2 or was a "fake fan" (even though I literally said I wasn't a fan at all) by people who couldn't actually demonstrate any greater understanding than me. It made me doubt myself, but I also had no reason to. So I was in this limbo of hollow internal conflict that could be resolved.
https://www.metacritic.com/game/silent-hill-2/critic-reviews/?platform=playstation-5Also, just going to say this straight away. This ISNT a good score. Scores literally don't matter (anymore than they already don't) if they're under a 90. Nobody gives a fuck about an 87, which will almost certainly go down anyway. Now if it was a 90? Or higher than the original games score? That could be something. I'm only saying this, because I've already start3d seeing falseflaggers annoyingly parading this score, so as to further fuel the weird culture war and outrage bait. And because everybody is fucking weirdly shallow. They will bite and see what is presented to them. Not what really is.I made this thread because the weirdness surrounding this game has made it impossible for me to talk about it in earnest, impossible to want to love the game by talking about and reconciling some of the problems I think it has through reasonable discussion.So I choose to have faith in the remake. Just hope it's not another disappointment like Alan Wake 2 was personally, really hope they emphasize it's genuine strengths.This game is one I have tried so desperately to find a way I could fit it into my favourites. And I desperately want to love it.I read some of the reviews, and theyre pretty shallow. Almost want to make an entirely other thread about the problem of videogame reviews and how they rely heavily on conventional words, to carry any "meaning" more than actually saying anything about the game but...I'm pooped.
>>690829760>>690829792>>690829841>>690830072I'm glad you finally got this rant off your chest, but I did not read it.I've already pre-ordered the remake, and I'll be playing it day one.
>>690829760Didn't read any of this shit. Just wanted to say that you're gay and ugly.
Based threadI only read the first paragraph
>>690830219>I've already pre-ordered the remake, and I'll be playing it day one.Okay. I wasn't discouraging that. I'll probably hear how it runs on steam deck first and decide to buy or pirate it based on how well it runs.
>>690830072>So I choose to have faith in the remakelmaoretard
fail thread lmao op btfo
>>690829792>the idea about the monsters being representations of James' psyche...which is what the first game did anyway, so why is it treated as so special in Silent Hill 2?1. A part of the fanbase only watches videos of the game (I wish I was fucking joking).2. People will refuse to learn the tank controls or adapt to PS1 graphics so don't care and don't play the first game.3. The cult exists in the game (Yes, that is all it takes for retards to drop some of these games)4. Because Alyessa's monsters only go as far as 'Her fears but made worse and given flesh' which does not allow for faggy theory-crafting.5. A lot of what SH2 does, is not unique but it was easily accessible and was people's first experience with a decent story in a video game so it gets treated as though it is special.
>>690831378Both SH1 and SH2 are good though and both are equally the best in the series.
>>690831378>4. Because Alyessa's monsters only go as far as 'Her fears but made worse and given flesh' which does not allow for faggy theory-crafting. And? That's the exact same case for SH2. There's no further depth, and even the retarded theory crafting there is, has been many times denied by the fucking creators of those designs.The only MILDLY distinct aspect of SH2 is that different characters technically supposedly see the town and monsters differently. But this is so poorly developed and touched upon that I don't think it matters and it objectively barely means anything.
>>690829760>>690829792>>690829841>>690830072Meaning is relative so you can't say something is more meaningful then the other thing. You can make judgements of people and their interpretations, but nothing taken for meaning is meaningless. The actual area of critique is in how that meaning is being applied and what goes into its creation. All that stuff you're calling meaningless is just your misunderstanding of what went into it and what came out of it. The discussion of Silent Hill 2, that led to a lot of the stuff you called meaningless undertones, was a big part of everyone's enjoyment. It's always like that for these kinds of things that lead to discussion. The discussion becomes part of the enjoyment and even integral to the identity of the media, especially on a place like 4chan. So the reason some people hold all that undertone stuff dear to their heart is because it was integral to their prolonged enjoyment of the media. However, most people aren't these people. Most people (normies) find the game when the discussions have been had and so they only catch the trickle of the memes and discussions, yet they idolize all of it because they see others enjoying it so they try the same. At this point, the discussion is broken into a relentless loop of the now assimilated memes, which muddies up the original icons (discussion points). This is how what starts as discussion points becomes iconified by trickle drinkers, to the point that these points are put up on some wiki or youtube analysis for every tard to consume and accept as canon. It even gets to the point where the nu fans start making their own shitty memes as they take over the media. This is usually seen by whether or not any actual discussion regarding the memes is happening, or if its just the same memes spread over and either being disavowed or agreed with, without discussion.
>>690831549>Meaning is relative so you can't say something is more meaningful then the other thing.No it's not. Yes you can. You don't understand subjectivity or objectivity beyond a high schoolers "well that's just your like opinion" level. Unironically too ignorant to debate with. Maybe if you actually made an argument or counter argument, but if you're saying things like this in the first place, then you've likely never encountered an argument in your life anyway.Let's see if the reading the rest will be worth it...And no. It wasnt worth it. Not a single thing said was actually responded to. It followed the standard train of "affirm what I already think instead of disprove what has been said" that people who don't understand arguments or even just basic MEANINGFUL communication (inb4 the retard says, "well even if I use a word OBJECTIVELY wrong, aslong as it's meaningful to me that's all that matters!" lol)And then completely irrelevant baseless empty understanding of "normies" (anybody who uses such a word is almost certainly a certified retard)>Most people (normies) find the game when the discussions have been had and so they only catch the trickle of the memes and discussions, yet they idolize all of it because they see others enjoying it so they try the same.This is an utterly shallow judgment, that has no actual train of logic let alone argumentative validity. If this was the case then the exact same should be the case for other Silent Hill games since SH1 doesn't spell out its story anymore and is unironically probably harder to understand for somebody on their own, particularly because they can miss the true ending. Let alone the plethora of other games this doesn't apply to.Also, you're a fucking retard so you completely ignored the behaviour I outlined which Silent Hill 2 fans engage in. Its not really relevant to me whether they're "normies" or not. They're all regurgitating the same narrative.Waste of my time as expected.
>>690831497I wasn't making the argument that SH2 was bad. Just that some of the fanbase that 'likes' it are both retarded and like it for shit reasons. >>690831506>And? That's the exact same case for SH2It doesn't matter to the more unhinged of the fanbase. They'll say something like that the Mannequin shows SH2 has more depth even though it is a shallow display of James' supposed sexuality. Hell, you can do the same with SH1 and the Air Screamers showing that Alessa likes to read, all the bugs showing she likes insects or the Children representing her bullies but you'll be brushed off and told it is different in quality anyway. These people will felliate SH2 regardless. (although never its gameplay. I actually want someone who says they like SH2's gameplay. Not to dunk on them but to actually find someone who actually enjoys the fucking game.)
Silent Hill 2 is considered special and sacred by SH fans (and people at large) because all of the other main Silent Hill games, 1, 3, AND 4 all focus heavily on supernatural powers, cults, etc. The monsters are manifestations and reflections of themes in those too, but are more general and not specific to the character. Silent Hill 2 is a bit of a trendsetter in that regard.Also lol @ saying that people should have seen James's dead body by the TV as an arguing point. You do realize most people played this (very dark) game on CRTVs where you literally couldn't tell that much detail, especially not on a bloody dead body in the corner of a room somewhere? Come on brah.Back when it first came out, Silent Hill 2 was a bit obscure and only talked about on internet forums and stuff. Word of mouth wasn't discussing the deep themes, just that it was scary. You're seeing 20+ years of fandom canonizing it "the greatest horror game of all time" even though others have come and gone doing the same thing as more. It's not special anymore because everyone copied it. But it certainly was special.
>>690832147>It's not special anymore because everyone copied itIt's still special.
>>690832014>Hell, you can do the same with SH1 and the Air Screamers showing that Alessa likes to read, all the bugs showing she likes insects or the Children representing her bullies but you'll be brushed off and told it is different in quality anyway. These people will felliate SH2 regardless.I'm starting to realize exactly what you mean. Looking at this: >>690831549 guy.If I had to guess. Somehow, someway, Silent Hill 2 represents this modern understanding of art and literature. The idea that "death of the author" and "le everything is le subjective".When you exist so steeped in subjectivity, you don't need to be remotely coherent, rational or consistent. You can just say something is more meaningful to people... because anything can just be meaningful, and even though there is ALWAYS implied subjectivity (hilarious how the same types of people that will appeal to subjective meaning, will trash certain modern games and sensibilities as if its objective criticism, as if something can "miss the point" when the point is ultimate subjective. But I'll get triggered if I start rationally engaging with these fucking retards) Because they have no awareness of the fact that saying anything is meaningful, makes nothing meaningful (I mean the word is LITERALLY meant to mean that something distinctly means something more than another thing but fuck me whatever)My thoughts is that the PS2 is closer to modern. Silent Hill 2 has a more "immediate" and "personal" twist (by that, I mean it is directly about the main character, making it easier to identify with James than Harry) the graphics are clearer, and therefore communicate more with less ambiguity and...DVD.Combine all these factors with the modern day context, and it sort of makes sense why there are more videos about Silent Hill 2 than 1. Its the easier game to engage with, related to. And project onto. That's my LOGICAL guess.
>>690832413you literally said nothing meaningful
>>690832147>Also lol @ saying that people should have seen James's dead body by the TV as an arguing point.That's not the fucking point retard? Are you fucking stupid? The entire point is that everything everybody tries to identify as some subtle fucking detail doesn't actually fucking mean anything, there's a mountain load of evidence I already outlined to suggest this. Mary's clothes being shown mean absolutely nothing. Its like people didn't play the first game and didn't realize that the games do this shit alot where they show something mundane, that's obviously not supposed to be there, in a "creepy" or "unsettling" context. It's just about being weird and spooky. Its aesthetical. It has no more substance than anything In Silent Hill 1.Also Silent Hill 1 was just as personal. The only difference is that it wasn't directly related to the main character. Infact SH1 was even more subtle. Because you never actually get any direct word for word dialogue of Aleyssa's thoughts. You have to infer what kind of person she is, based on the monsters that manifest and the context of her childhood.My entire point is that THIS aspect for me is actually what makes SH1 worse than 2. Because of being so "subtle" you don't actually get to understand Aleyssa that deeply. Even if everything related to her is very personal.You get to understand every single on of Mary's flaws, insecurities, and what makes her happy. But that is NEVER the aspect of the game that anybody actually cares about or latches onto. Its the "foreshadowing" or the "there was a hole here, it's gone now" foreboding graffiti.I hate you retards so fucking much man. Genuinely has me livid.
>>690832609To declare something as not something. You have to understand it enough, to know that it can't be or isn't something else. Or even...nothing.Space can't be a vacuum, without the context of earth not being one. Nothing is really "nothing". Even "nothing" is something.Anyway. What is it that wasn't meaningful? What was not understood, or did you think wasn't communicated well?
>>690832753nothing you say is meaningful, it's all word salads with no objective or conclusions
>>690831930Don't be a little nigger, saying I can't argue followed by spamming insults not even a sentence later. Even worse you're doing what you're complaining about. First, I wasn't even implying 'well that's just like your opinion', but that you were deconstructing it wrong. Meaning is something imposed by people so yes it is relative to what leads people to thinking something is meaningful. >Not a single thing said was actually responded toYou asked why the community is the way it is and I addressed that plus I addressed the rawness you mentioned. To clarify, yes people know about what you're talking about, but it's been so many years that it's become 'meaningless' to talk about it. How many Star Wars fans talk about Darth Vader being Luke's father anymore? Everyone knows it, but it's like talking about cheese being made of milk. >If this was the case then the exact same should be the case for other Silent Hill games since SH1 doesn't spell out its story anymore...No it's as simple as normies didn't flock to SH1 discussions, because there wasn't really a place for them to exist and thrive in the first place.>so you completely ignored the behaviour I outlined which Silent Hill 2 fans engage in.I addressed this, please go back and read.
>>690829760>He come to Sirent Herr to find his dead wife>He fight a lot of Monsters>He scared!
>>690832864I'm going to take it that the irony of the fact that you can't actually point to anything directly, is indicative of your not just lack of understanding, but unwillingness to understand in the first place, seeing as I asked you to point to what you need clarified or elaborated on and you didn't...therefore actually making your retort even more meaningless, since it's dishonest, it doesn't seem to rectify a lack of meaning. It seeks to use the word "meaningless" like a blunt weapon. To slap it on me like a label to be derided for.Was that too meaningful for you?
>>690832753>>690833076>calls others who call his opinions meaningless misinformed>calls other peoples' opinions meaningless in the OP
>>690832971>Don't be a little nigger, saying I can't argue followed by spamming insults not even a sentence later.You're a retard. I don't want to talk to you it's that simple. You genuinely and completely do not understand anything about arguments if you think anything you've said in this single sentence is meaningful, which means it can never be rectified, you are literally too stupid and ignorant to engage with.One of the most basic logical fallacies of all is the "adhominem" it is literally the EASIEST fallacy ever to understand to. It doesn't even pretend to be complicated...and yet...somehow...people never understand it. I don't know quite why this happens with all concepts, ideas, words and "meanings" but they become hijacked by the expresser. They become used to fit the convenience of the user. So even though there is a MEANINGFUL and LOGICAL reason why logical fallacies are LOGICAL. People use it arbitrary, almost like a "grade" to tell somebody they did a bad job.I'll give you a hint: An adhominem is a specific type of fallacy.And informal fallacy of irrelevance. If you understand what are the necessary characteristics of an argument (please don't make me have to spell this out lmao) then you will understand why "insults" are not adhominems. "Being mean" isn't the logical fallacy. Something else is.>Meaning is something imposed by people so yes it is relative to what leads people to thinking something is meaningful. You're fucking retarded. Subjective is not the same as relative you fucking retard. Just because we "impose" meaning doesn't fucking mean it's relative. Are you fucking retarded? What the fuck?? Please do tell me. What do you think scientists do, when they "impose" different animal classes. When they dub an animal a "mammal". Or if that one is too much to wrap your head around, then what do you think Mathematicians mean when they say "1=1"? Why isn't 1 a relative concept? Why can't it also mean 2? You know numbers are made up right?
>>690829792>It is RIDICULOUS how many people think of this series as some deep super subtle masterpiece layered with subtext.Its symbolism is complex. Like with novels and movies, some people think it is fun to decipher them or derive unique meanings from them.
>>690833390more words salads with no objectiveness or conclusions
>>690832971>addressed this, please go back and readNo you didn't. I responded to everything you listed. And the fact that you couldn't do something as simple as quote what you think was addressed is indicative of that.>To clarify, yes people know about what you're talking aboutNo they do not lmao. Otherwise the Laura theory wouldn't be pushed so hard. Nor would the defenses of Eddie and Angela's characterization which are in direct contrast.>How many Star Wars fans talk about Darth Vader being Luke's father anymore? Everyone knows it, but it's like talking about cheese being made of milk....You're fucking retarded oh my god. You don't even realize we're not talking about the same thing, holy fuck. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER THAT JAMES KILLED MARRY HOLY SHIT IM TALKING ABOUT THE MEANING.Vader being Luke's father is a fact of the matter. What that actually means (of which, it doesnt actually mean much) is the difference.
>>690833390>you are literally too stupid and ignorant to engage with>continues to respond>ad hominemsYou did not critique my statements beyond "you don't understand" or "maybe if you actually made an argument" and others like "you're a fucking retard" (keyword: you). Meanings are relative to what they bear meaning to, and what they bear meaning to is relative to our view of them, and our view of them is relative to our repeated interaction with them or recognition of patterns, etc.
>>690829841Why would you complete annihilate any credibility you might have with a soijak picture?
>>690833532Jesus fuck for someone complaining about people being holier than thou, well.Here is a quotation and match to how I addressed the OP.>Whether what one says is meaningful (communicates something real, true, and honest) and whether what one says can be appreciated or understood. I don't agree with this so I said so by stating meaning is relative. >They will bite and see what is presented to them. Not what really is.This is what I was addressing as the trickle, it's straight out of mgs2, which was my explanation for what you're asking about.
>>690834148..............I don't even know how to respond to this. Sometimes when I get responses like this, I trip myself up to see whether there was something I missed or didn't explain properly for me to get the responses I do. Whether I was too hard or what.Then I return to the thread see stuff like this: >Here is a quotation and match to how I addressed the OP.And realize why I bothered to imply that an anon is retarded.It feels like...it just feels so fucking meaningless?I don't even know how to respond to somebody like this. Where I addressed exactly what they were doing from the get go, and explained that AFFIRMING WHAT ONE BELIEVES is not addressing something. Its not engaging with anything. To engage with something is to INTERACT with it. And to interact with claims of truth. You have to disprove that claim or else it doesn't fucking mean anything like holy fuck. Man holy fuck.What the fuck? Why is discussion so bad on here?Do I really have to fucking explain for the hundredth time. That if scientists say "The earth is a billion years old because of determining the age of the oldest rocks on earth and the moon" and somebody else says "No it's 7000 years old because the Bible says so" They are NOT addressing the scientists claim. They are NOT engaging with it. They are simply expressing and asserting what they believe meaninglessly. With zero actual point, or substance, because not only do they have no ACTUAL directly relevant evidence of their own, but they haven't even disproved the validity of the scientists evidence.But...I just...I feel like explaining this concept is uselrss on /v/. Because retards like this unironically say empty statements like "meaning is relative" and then when I bring up counters to that, they just ignore it and keep on repeating it.OBVIOUSLY something is wrong here, since somebody else by now should have been able to point out what is wrong with OP's argument but...that hasnt happened so it feels meaningless.
>>690833532Darth Vader being Luke's father has a connotation to Mary and James. The themes of redemption, goodness in darkness, undying love, internal suffering, internal desire, etc. fit both. For someone claiming people just see what they want to see you sure do the same a lot and always assume the worst of others lmao. tebeH I don't think you'll honestly listen to anyone here, unless they regurgitate what you say, so I would advise you pull your head out of your ass so that you can see those you are complaining about, but this time not from the comfortable perspective of the inside of your rectum. Then you'll see all the other people with heads up their asses and realize you were the same.
Bro, Silent Hill 2 is one of those games where avant-garde aesthetics have successfully breached the boundaries of commercialization. It is a game where the deictic tools of common computer game interfaces work against the player, or to be more precise, guiding the player by disorienting him or her. Normally computer games are worlds made of signs, where everything has to ‘make sense’ to be playable. In Silent Hill 2, however, the gameplay is all about making sense out of empty signifiers. The point is that the game works by using disturbances as signs and vice versa, a strategy that goes against the grain of Claude E. Shannon’s information theory of communication, where information is the exact opposite of disturbance or, more precisely: disturbance is the chaos from which information (signs) have to be extracted.
>>690829841>The entire game is a very close and personal look at the relationship of Two People. Now, I would love if the other filler characters included also had any depth.I think that's a massive disservice to Angela's character, personally, she has a very beautiful and intimate story. And the reason Eddie and Angela are in the game is to show that not everyone is strong enough to self-actualize in the way James can/did, they were both consumed by their guilt.
>>690835418Meaning in this context is a discussion of opinions not facts. To address something is to affirm what you believe about what you are addressing. "The Earth is a billion years old because of these billion year old rocks", "Well I do not believe that, could you show me rocks" is also affirming what one believes.
>>690830072>This game is one I have tried so desperately to find a way I could fit it into my favourites. And I desperately want to love it.I realized recently through playing other games like Umineko, Library of Ruina and Pathologic is that I like stories about mental illness but I don't like whiny, sappy idiot protagonists. I like stoic and hard people like James or Roland who don't betray much of their inner feelings and instead the game world becomes the foundation for exploring what's wrong with them. Their issues get billboarded and written large as the game world. SH2 is mostly impressive for the labyrinth portraying a descent into madness with clarity at the end for example. That's so much more interesting than a game like 12 Minutes or whatever where a character just bloo bloo I'm sad, here's my sad story, feel sad for me. The symbolism and artistry is what makes it fun
>>690835906You're a retard and don't understand anything. Meaning doesn't change because of perceived facts or not. The world doesn't exist "objectively" it is constantly and always filtered through a subjective observer. When somebody says "The world is 7000 years old because the Bible says so" they are making a statement about "meaning" they are saying the word of God is absolute and true, therefore the Bible itself is the evidence of the world being 7000 years old. This isn't REALLY a conversation about "facts". The facts are "some rocks are something years old because of techniques that measure the age of something" facts must be collected and FORMULATED into something coherent. Indicative.Anyway you won't understand any of that anyway. The point is that the creationist is wrong because his logic is circular. It doesn't matter whether the earth is really a billion years old or not. The exact same point I am making could be said about evolution, and if you understand anything about evolution it isn't actually "all facts" only retards with zero fucking brain cells actually think Science is "objective" because unfortunately philosophy is considered a meme subject so nobody knows how to think.You managed to miss the fucking point entirely. When somebody makes an argument. You have to CHALLENGE the content of that argument, not simply assert the opposite and affirm your bias.Meaning is Meaning, no matter the context. Whether something is more meaningful a la: Whether the Bible is a meaningful indicator of truth. Is a question about whether something is MEANINGFUL. You're so fucking retarded it's unbelievable. Everybody knows that somebody can choose to FEEL that something is meaningful just because. That's the surface level understanding of meaning. Literal "well that's your opinion man" level. That is divorced from whether it actually indicates meaning. And EVERYTHING says something. Life may not be meaningful. But what it is means something.
>>690832014>I actually want someone who says they like SH2's gameplay. Not to dunk on them but to actually find someone who actually enjoys the fucking game.)It's me, I'm that guy.Hi.I do urbex and explore abandoned buildings IRL, I'm always in love with any game that gives me the same feeling of going room-to-room in cool abandoned urban locations and filling out the map always feels really good. I actually liked SH: Origins more than Homecoming or ShatMemz or even 4 just because that game nailed the environments and the theatre/sanitarium are both really authentic and cool locations
>>690835906>To address something is to affirm what you believe about what you are addressing.Okay I missed this entirely I do not know why I even wasted my time with the response I did.>"Well I do not believe that, could you show me rocks" is also affirming what one believes.I don't understand? How can somebody be so fucking stupid man? Like what the fuck? Is this what "all meaning is relative" gets you? I don't even think you know what you're saying so I'll repeat what I said:"Saying the earth is a billion years old BECAUSE rocks on the earth and moon that old exist" is MAKING A CLAIM and PROVIDING EVIDENCE for that claim. Saying "The Bible says it's 7000 years old" does not MEAN anything. Because that doesn't change the fact, that the fucking rocks indicate the earths age. You'd have to PROVE that the evidence of the rocks is invalid. And this is even ignoring the fact that the Bible isn't evidence. It doesn't directly indicate anything. It just SAYS something. Therefore. When somebody say "the Bible says otherwise" they are not making a statement of truth, of logic, of meaning. Or one that could even actually be argued against. They are simply STATING what they already believe. They are saying "Yes I believe otherwise" that doesn't mean anything. That is just affirming oneself and their believe. Telling themselves that they are right because they believe themselves to be.Like holy fuck you're retarded man what the fuck.
>>690835830>And the reason Eddie and Angela are in the game is to show that not everyone is strong enough to self-actualize in the way James can/did, they were both consumed by their guilt.Are you retarded? James literally kills himself in one of the ending. The entire story can't make sense if that ending is invalid.Silent Hill 2 analysis at display right here btw.
>>690836907I said the way James CAN, learn to read
>>690829760>>690829792>>690829841>>690830072Not going to read all of this
>>690836967You realize...the existence of one consequent...means the other can't be true right? I wish these concepts didn't just exist in my head as ideas. So I could just throw out some word instead having to put in the effort to explain them but...basically let's say there's 2 parents, and 2 children. one of those children is low functioning autistic, let's call them child B. the other child is a star athlete child A.it doesn't make sense to say "Child A is proof that successful parents breed successful children" when child B exists.do you understand? basically if there are two different outcomes of the same scenarios and conditions. you cant them use one of those outcomes to validate an overarching idea (in the example: success) when one of those outcomes directly contradicts that. Because it logically suggests that theme you proposed...was a made up interpretation. it CANT mean that logically.
anyway. I made this thread to criticize the exact type of people that ended up participating in this thread. guess I forgot that there is a reason why these types of persons are so common and widespread anyway. I don't know what I was thinking. thread made me disillusioned. I feel like I came in with a very clear point that somehow so easily become muddled and not engaged with... ironically like the threads I linked in op.I feel stupid. At this point it doesn't even feel necessarily like anyone else's fault as much as I want to blame someone else.I don't know what's wrong...with me? there's this strong feeling, that I don't even know why I have anymore at this point. And I seek reconciliation through argumentation...but I never get a sufficient answer. I have principles I understand and standby to make sure some meaningful conclusion can be reached, but apparently "meaning is relative" so that means you never have to be right or true.all I know is that the thoughts that were the basis of this thread were meaningless and that I almost wish I didnt have them at all.
>>690838104fascinatingAnyway, that all aside, my point was just talking about why Eddie and Angela were included in the game. You seem insane so I doubt you'll be able to accept what I'm writing here but I'll jot it down for anyone else who likes discussing this stuffThe reason Eddie and Angela are included in the game is to show not everyone can make it out of Silent Hill alive. James only makes it out psychologically intact in 1/3 of the endings (please don't ask me to clarify this, you can figure it out) BECAUSE he's able to have an emotional heart-to-heart with Mary's spirit where she says she forgives him.Eddie and Angela have nobody like that to pull them out of their rut, so they just die. Angela even says as much to James, she dares him to sacrifice as much of himself for her as Mary did for him, it makes her whole situation even more tragic because he's not able to do that. So for OP to say the game is about the close and personal relationship between two people and not understand this is kind of funny
>>690836815Ok cool it with the aspergers for one second and just write what you need to write, most of what I'm reading is insults. Maybe you're missing what what I was saying implies so I'll try to add that too. >Whether what one says is meaningful (communicates something real, true, and honest) I disagree because whether something is meaningful is less so because of whether it is real, true, or honest, but how it relates to someone on a personal level. That personal level is relative to experiences, such as how one grows up. It is not that meaning is subjective, but that it is relative to what led to it and what it leads to. Meaning is a repeated recognition of patterns and tying patterns to what holds those patterns. This isn't up to truth, or what is real, or honest, especially because meaning is what establishes what is truth. Meaning is reliant on pattern recognition, more than already established meanings (truths). Pattern recognition is how meaning is relative, as meaning is relative to the arbitrary patterns we see, which we break from arbitrary by giving them definition. You lack the context to enjoy looking for undertones in SH2, but you have the context to see it as you do. With "Well I do not believe that, could you show me rocks" he is affirming his belief, without evidence, and not claiming the alternative. But he is also not challenging the other's claim, although not agreeing with it, so he is also not affirming his own claim.
>>690838472I think you need to take a break from this site and clear your head. You'll feel better, I promise.
>>690838472Yea the exact type of people as in yourself. This thread will stand out to everyone, not as a testament to how you heckin showed em, but how much of a self conceited faggot you are, and are living proof of what you hate.
This is all essayfag, also known as okiirano, a well known poster on this board who posts essays about games that no one wants to read, complaining that the games aren't oot but also he hates oot. His essays often show that he barely played the games he complains about (if at all). Very insufferable, claims he wants to discuss videogames but flies off the handle and tells people to kill themselves if they have a different perspective, then goes on to say no one else on /v/ knows how to have a civil discussion. He spends more time with video essays on youtube than playing games, gets most of his opinions from them. Resetera reject, hates /v/ with a passion but can never leave (likely because he was banned from everywhere else for telling people to kill themselves constantly).He does not do this for "videogame discussion". He does it as an alternative form of rage bait, one that uses the veil of "videogame discussion" to do it, unlike the /pol/-tier threads that just do it mask off. People have been duped over and over into engaging honestly with his threads, only for him to dismiss what they say and call them retarded, then pretend what he is doing is what /v/ does (it is, but he pretends he is above it). Often he will make nonsensical and/or contradictory claims, or just be otherwise extremely unclear and vague, and when asked to clarify he will go into a blind rage about how stupid /v/ is, rather than attempt to rearticulate. This is not about videogames. This is some strange autistic obsession with turning himself into one of /v/'s lolcows.
Bloober meltdown
>>690839486>I disagree because whether something is meaningful is less so because of whether it is real, true, or honest, but how it relates to someone on a personal level.This is a belief. And opinion. Not an argument. And you don't understand that no matter how many times it's spelled out to you. Its why it's a waste of time. You fundamentally don't understand certain things. The same way religious people make fun of the concept of evolution or the bing bang as ridiculous. They lack the fundamental components necessary to understand those phenomenon and the basis for them.I don't know what else to tell you. You keep just saying denying the antecedent. You keep saying the opposite of what I'm saying. You're not making an argument. Nothing you say follows from premise premise to conclusion. Your premise IS the conclusion, and even now as I say this I don't think it matters or you'll understand.When it's normal for people to unironically make replies like this: >>690840034Then it's just kind of over. there is something fundemental to either this place or the broader internet that makes people incapable of engaging with things logically or understanding anything...at all. Its not even just understanding other perspectives. Because some retard...like this retard just did, will just effectively throw it back at me with zero actual argument as day "No u" see that's the thing about "truth" in the modern day and why disinformation is so widespread. Its so easy to push collective ignorance, as an indication that actually the thing one is ignorant about is wrong. And when ignorance is validated collectively. Or by delusion. Then it dominates reality. Because perception to some degree is a social phenomenon. That's how narratives are formed.Brb
>>690839486>It is not that meaning is subjective, but that it is relative to what led to it and what it leads to.That is not what relative means.Or atleast it does not rule out subjectivity.>Meaning is a repeated recognition of patterns and tying patterns to what holds those patterns. This isn't up to truth, or what is real, or honest, especially because meaning is what establishes what is truth. Meaning is reliant on pattern recognition, more than already established meanings (truths).I have no idea what this means. None of this connects to a logical conclusion.Yes truth is a human concept. That doesn't mean it's relative. Nor is human. All you've described is that human beings create categorizations. That doesn't mean those categorizations are relative. You don't understand relativity or truth. All you've done is describe something on the surface level. Not formulated it into an argument or point.This is why people make references or examples. Since in the abstract anything can technically mean anything. It doesn't mean anything.>With "Well I do not believe that, could you show me rocks" he is affirming his belief, without evidence, and not claiming the alternative. But he is also not challenging the other's claim, although not agreeing with it, so he is also not affirming his own claim.I don't know why you injected your own arbitrary answer into my example and think you remotely made a point. You really are supremely retarded."Could you show me rocks" regardless isn't saying anything. The evidence exist, the effort to substantiate that evidence exists. Nobody needs to "show you rocks". You can go find the rocks yourself and replicate the argument. Although that's retarded since scientific papers are already peer reviewed and it would be a ridiculous expression of skepticism to do it yourself. "Can you show me the rocks" is an empty statement. It doesn't say anything at all. And it certainly doesn't engage. Its what a child would say.
>>690839486>most of what I'm reading is insults.Yep, that's okiirano alright.
>>690840775>that is not what relative meansThat is not what I'm saying you need to listen to the context in order to get it (it's ok if you don't).>Or at least it does not rule out subjectivityIt does you're just insisting. >I have no idea what this meansYou said it yourself the world is not objective, it's inherently as it is and we perceive it. That perception is relative to experience, which is relative to existence, which is relative to its own arbitrary self building form. If you can't understand this I don't think it's worth the effort to come up with another retort calling me a retard. >I dont know why you injected..Ok so you still don't see the point. Yea keep taking metaphors literally that's why they're figurative after all. Astounding.
>>690842018
>>690829760Was it in as you typed this? Is it in right now?
How many ~22yo homosexual black college dropouts with adhd and from a religious family in this area, I do wonder? A good PI could probably find out easily, if motivated enough, just wondering
goty already/v/ incells raging
>>690843176mods are so fucking retarded
>>690843603is it urgent? or can it wait until you're done gooning to femboys?
full playthroughhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQdpg4D0clM
>>690842247You can't just say "That's not what I mean" every time you get a counterargument you don't like even when that's exactly what your words indicate, because you don't know how to make an argument you haven't said anything that could be taken as anything but the points you'v made, I've engaged directly with everything you've said and you've danced between the lines of vague semantics.That's YOUR fault. Not mine, you've yet to directly engage with anything I say because every time I call you out for that, you play the semantics game of "actually I did engage" even when I demonstrably show that you don't. You're either bad faith or retarded.
>>690843830>I've engaged with everything you've said>no u>you've yet to directly engage with anything I say, only I have engaged with you >>actually I did engage
you're a nigger (low iq) faggot (mentally ill), your opinions are utterly worthless
>>690843830What do you mean that's not what I mean, yyou still have yet to clarify anything. You've yet to engage with what I just pointed out in the last post. Go ahead and try it.
