Maybe I'm just a casual, but I like the downtime with slice-of-life stuff in Persona over the endless wandering around desolate wastelands you get in SMT (at least 3 and 5, the only one I played). And while having personas as party members gives more options for party makeup, it feels more fun to have actual characters around instead.What is it that makes people prefer SMT?
>>692789556i prefer marrying beano
>>6927895563 and 5 killed SMT
>>692789556The calendar system is fucking garbage and I'm sick of reading a shitty high school VN by writers who couldn't write a teenager to save their life.Also Press Turn is so much wildly better than "Once More" that I can't even imagine what they were thinking with the latter.
>>692789686Shit, if true, sucks for me since they're the only ones on PC lol
>>692789556>I like the downtime with slice-of-life stuff in Persona over the endless wandering around desolate wastelands you get in SMTI don't. In fact SMT should have less downtime.
>>6927895564 has more of an emphasis on story and characters. That games feels closer to Persona while still fundamentally being an SMT game.3 and 5 are no frills dungeon crawlers while 4 is more of a raditional RPG experience with actual towns to visit and equipment to buy like armor and weapons.But overall, the appeal of SMT is that its more gameplay focused than Persona and there's a huge emphasis on player expression and party building. Its also more difficult than Persona and challenges the player with unique fights besides just "you hit a story milestone, here's a bossfight. now wail on a damage sponge for 20 minutes without changing your strategy once."
humans are gay and cringe. I'll take my demon harem and grumpy deities every day over the high school horsefuckery.
I only like SMT, I also like etrian odyssey & the persona elements in persona Q were such a turn off that I couldn't enjoy what was essentially an etrian odyssey game with a different skin. Something about those types of characters is extremely irritating to me for some reason. I did like the first devil survivor which definitely has a lot more story bits than a typical megaten game, never played the sequel though.
>>692789556I like both. I enjoy that they are in the same universe.
>>692789556I prefer Persona. My biggest issue with SMT is that there's literally nothing else to it. You just fight and then fight and fight and fight and fight and nothing else happens. It's just one enemy encounter to the next. The game's even more barebones in mechanics than Pokémon. It really needs some more shit to do in it. I still haven't finished SMTVV but I've beaten Persona 5 3 times and Metaphor once.
>>692789556>What is it that makes people prefer SMT?More DemonsMore attacksDeeper weakness and Higher power CeilingsDungeon Crawling to locationsLimited saving, healing, fast travel (VV not withstanding)Character choices based on moralityJust a few things that might make people prefer it.
>>692789556I like wandering around a lonely ruin chatting with dick ass demons
>>692789556I like MegaTen/SMT games. That said, I do prefer spin-offs to mainline. Not just Persona but also games like DDS and Devil Summoner.
>>692789556I do, but I still prefer P5 over SMTV (haven't player Vengeance yet)
Persona is fine but as you get older you start to realize how terrible the writing is, at least in the "new" persona games. In SMT you can mostly ignore the story but in Persona it's a core part of the experience. You have to get involved in social links and training for the social stats to get the most out of the game.
>>692794519VV is better than SMT5 by a lot but Royal is better than P5 by even more.
>>692794869One of the main reasons I liked Metaphor. The story isn't amazing by any stretch but when you compare it to Persona it's still a vast improvement.
>>692789556The slice of life stuff, combined with the calendar, really kills my desire to play Persona. Atlus also lacks competent writers and hasn't put out a game with a decently written and coherent plot from start to finish since Etrian Odyssey IV which was over a decade ago so putting up with Persona's writing is also a massive negative for me.SMT is basically just the good parts of Persona without the stuff that drags it down. SMT also features better gameplay, usually better dungeons (V's dungeons were really weak but the open maps were mostly great), and just more variety when it comes to party building.
>>692789686Like 2 didn't have the shitty magten that ran out every half an hour
my first megaten was picrel. gameplay was archaic shit but plot and setting were incredible. i thought this was gonna be the constant for the series. turns out the opposite is true. smtiv for example has huge improvement on gameplay but much lazier and cringey writing. is there anything closer to Strange Journey including every spin off? i have played just a few
>>692789556I do, I also think VV is a far better game than metaphor
>>692789556I prefer SMT's aesthetics and music
>>692789556while i love both,i prefer more the team bulding from smt,also they are more difficult most of the time
Persona is like watching an anime or reading a VNSMT is a dungeon crawler, even if it has anime style as well, it feels more "gamey"Also, 3 and 5 are made like that. My favorite is IV because it actually has towns and NPCs in post apocalyptic tokyo
>>692797178mine was pic related,i never finished becuase i got the amane ending and i just couldn't survive the final boss rush
>>692797694fuck
>>692789556I prefer the post apocalyptic setting, the narrative of humanity's battle to survive against the thralls of law and chaos. Not interested in the school setting and the VN stuff, as it's inclusion in persona feels overly padded. EO gameplay is pretty tight too.
>>692789556I like but don't love SMT. I prefer it because I dislike Persona. I hate how slowly the game progresses and I can't stand managing social mechanics. Don't even have a problem with the writing or anything, I simply want to make builds and fight demonsSame reason I play Etrian Odyssey but not Final Fantasy
>>692790519what the fuck? 4 sounds awesome, why no pc release?
>>692794869I wouldn't say you can ignore it entirely. P5 was awful because it had pointless story segments that were wrapped around loading screens and required you to sit through it. It would've been sufficient to have them on the loading screen like the thieves network shit
I'm a newfag to atlus, I played p3r, p4g, p5r, p5s, smt v v, and metaphor all this year tho. I greatly prefer persona because I play jrpgs for the story but I did love smt v v too. I will play the raidou game or whatever is supposed to be coming to pc when it gets herebasically atlus can do no wrong in my mind. I don't care about the challenge because I don't really care about hard turn based games, I play them to chill (I no hit true eigong the other day in nine sols, so I'm not a shitter at vidya)
>>692797694>i never finished becuase i got the amane ending and i just couldn't survive the final boss rushHappened to me too
>>692789556I like both for different reasons. cant go wrong with atlus rpgs
>>692789556I prefer SMT press turn and general gameplay over Persona's. I like Persona's interaction with characters.Overall I value gameplay more so for me SMT > Persona.
>>692789556SMT, maybe I'm getting more and more jaded but I thought p5r sucked ass despite liking p3fes and p4g. I'd be reluctant to play p6
SMTV made up for the meh story by having gameplay that can feel difficult even after acquiring powerful demons. Persona has the issue of losing control of its difficulty curve at the midpoint because the combat system can't punish you like press turn can.
I can't blame persona fags if they prefer persona over mainline.>Play a jrpgOr>Play a jrpg thats also a VN/Datesim.The other one is just a plus.No stress over the end of the world setting or some shit works too.I like them both anyways.Well, all of them except demikids.I didn't liked pokemon, i sure as hell won't like it either.
>want less focus on overarching narrative and mildly difficult combat in favor of NPC plots and more stylized dungeonsplay persona>want a deeper focus on the overarching plot and combat systems/variety instead of character development and dungeon stylizationplay smt
>>692789556Look at the numbers, the mainlines SMT are a lot more niche, it takes a particular type of autism to endlessly grind the same type of game with the same gameplay and the same mediocre story.Persona has the same gameplay starting from 3, but a least an effort is made concerning the characters and the story.
>>692789556I enjoy the older Persona 1 and 2 more than 4 and 5, and had a good time with the first two MTs so I guess I'm more of a SMT guy.Negotiating with demons is easily my favorite mechanic.
>>692789556No.SMT is persona with all of the personality and fun removed.It's also insanely player-hostile with its horse shit RNG design causing instant game overs.
>>692790065>writers who couldn't write a teenager to save their life.It's no different than literally any anime/manga made in the last 40 years.And shounen is the demographic for these games.
>>692789556>play persona>think monsters are fucking neat>find out there's a series with a closer focus on them>never look back
>>692789556>Maybe I'm just a casual, but I like the downtime with slice-of-life stuffBrother, the downtime in Persona is the dungeons. My save file for 5R is probably like 90+ hours and I doubt I spent half of that actually doing shit in dungeons because you're supposed to blitz them so you can do as much stuff away from the combat as possible.I like SMT more because there's less non-gameplay stuff going on. Yeah Persona gives characters more opportunity to be relevant and memorable for the player, but then I ask myself "how much DO I care about these characters" and the answer is usually really not any more than I care about characters in SMT. That's not to say I hate Persona, but it's like it doesn't want you to play with the extra fusion experience from social links or traits or skill inheritance beyond making the upcoming part easier so you can get back to the other side of the game (until you get to the last dungeon). It's not like I play SMT only for the gameplay though. I do like the setting and story elements involved.>>692802030Persona has "game over on MC death because your party is incompetent/hates you" too so I dunno what the big deal is.
>>692789556yeah persona has too much text and faggy drama for me.
>>692789556I first got into persona but while I liked 3 and 4, the gameplay sucked. Then I heard about SMT from fags here and thought it'd have the same shit gameplay but gave nocturne a try. Before I started playing, I heard it had a min story and was worried but I ended up having so much fun. I ended up playing and liking 1-5, strange journey, dds, even 4 though I haven't played apocalypse yet and I only played 5 when it came to pc and did classic mode so I gotta replay vengeance route next.
>>692802701I like V for what it is (being a big old Nocturne love letter) but IVA for sure has to be my favorite gameplay system. A lot of the worst parts of IV were patched and, while there are still some questionable decisions here and there, it's solid pretty much throughout (even if the story is more take it or leave it). Hope you enjoy it, bro.
>>692789556I played all SMT and Persona games. I still prefer SMT over persona. I might give Metaphor a chance once theres a price drop
>>6927896865 is not even SMT, it is it's own thing and it fucking sucks
>>692802879thanks, it's definitely next on my list.
>>6928030283 is bigger shake up than 5
personally i found the social things boring as hell and i was just waiting until i could get back into the dungeons and combat anyways so i'd rather just play a game where that's all you do
I enjoy the social links in P3 and P4. Not so much in P5. The Social links were my favorite in P3 as it felt like MC was the buddha or the great encourager. Because of that I felt sad at the end of P3 and P3R.
>>692789556I do but I see no reason to hate either
>>692789556I just think the premise of actually choosing the fate of the world is cooler than just hanging out with friends and eventually "saving" the world.
>>692789556I genuinely hate the time management and how bloated and full of filler the social links are. Many ranks of your social links or confidants are completely filler and it feels even worse when you don't necessarily rank up the social link every time you hang out with them. Metaphor had the right idea of changing it to only 8 ranks instead of 10. I really dislike the high school setting for Persona but I can set it aside. Persona 5 was still so good, even if formulaic, that I would still recommend that over any other game if someone asked me what the best megaten game was. SMT is so much more focused on the gameplay and immediately throws me into the game, lets me fuck around, fuse some shit, grind if needed, explore and fight bosses, whereas Persona makes you sit through random periods of long long long long long story scenes with no save points so I always have to set aside time to plan when I play Persona because I don't know how long I'm going to be forced to plot. I also hate Soejima's art style with a burning passion and the best parts of Persona's art is everything Kaneko related. Hopefully P6 starts to get more of Doi's demon designs because he's really started to grow on me. I don't hate persona but I'd prefer SMT or most of the rest of megaten nine times out of ten.
The life sim aspect is why I hate persona actually.
>>692805187I love SMT but just calling Persona "hang out with friends and save the world simulator" is being a little harsh. I like to believe ATLUS delivers great stories across the board and the Persona series is no different.
>>692802101>And shounen is the demographic for these games.If you mean Persona specifically, maybe
>>692789556>Does anyone prefer SMT over Persona?If you like gameplay more than story/dating sim, SMT is better by a huge margin. If you're the opposite, I'd call you a faggot.
>>692809540That's basically what the series has become with Persona 4 and 5. The games prior, particularly 2 and 3, had actual things to say and 3 even had mechanics designed specifically around its themes like the calendar system which i tolerate there but hate everywhere else. Persona has become a creatively bankrupt cashcow and their popularity has had a negative impact on how people, from outsiders to newer fans, view Atlus.>>692809849Shonen is pretty broad to the point where stuff like Devilman and Ruri Dragon are both shonen. Both SMT and Persona are aimed at boys ages 12-18 first and foremost though the older games in both series had messages that could be appreciated by anyone.
I've only played SMT. The high school stuff in Persona is cringe to me. Maybe I'll play it one day, sadly it seems that Atlus puts way more resources and staff power into it than SMT so if I play Atlus games I have no excuse not to play it. For me the draw of SMT is the mythologies it uses and the demons so it's not like those aren't in Persona.
>>692810124>Both SMT and Persona are aimed at boys ages 12-18 first and foremost though the older games in both series had messages that could be appreciated by anyone.Last Bible and Persona were specifically made to draw in younger crowds, with Persona being aimed at the around high school aged audience, implying the demographic Atlus had was older than that. When people call it shounen I always felt they just mean "anime fights"
Like most folks I got into the series through P3, Portable specifically and I really liked it. I eventually got around to P4G (got a Vita for it) and specifically P3F (didn't play The Journey, just The Answer and picked up where I left off from Portable), and realized I enjoyed the combat and party management more than most people do since everyone hates The Answer.Then I got a 3DS and SMTIV. It was awesome. P5 then came out and I hated it. Metaphor looks alright though but I'll wait for the re-release.Out of these many hours played on pic related on a single playthrough I think it only has like 6 hours of story which is great.
>>692810698>Like most folks I got into the series through P3, Portableall 5 of them
>>692810698>Metaphor looks alright though but I'll wait for the re-releaseYeah I am gonna wait as well. They'll probably add romance routes in the release so it'll worth the wait
>>692797981Probably because it was developed for 2 screens and to be an "on the go" experience with anywhere-saving.It is unironically fantastic and I'm kinda sad its stuck on the 3DS because if most Persona fans got their hands on IV they'd probably love it and the series would get the recognition it deserves.
>>692810889well I mean P3 as a whole not Portable specifically sorry I worded it weirdly
I was more of a Revelations kid myself
SMT is gay now. Persona never will be. You have to decide what side you're on.
>>692810124persona 4 absolutely has "things to say" about how our excitement over modernization lets tradition die and leaves us unhappy. this is everywhere across the whole game. in golden they even beat you over the head with it in case you were too stupid to get it the first time.persona 5 is when they forgot how to have a point, unless you count "adults bad"
>>692814065Raped and Abused?DEAL WITH IT
>>692814558
>>692789556SMT peaked at the first half of SMT1. It's otherwise a series of rather boring dungeon crawlers whose narrative never lives up to any of the actual promise and whose gameplay is just not fun. Persona might be shit now but it at least has IS and EP which for all the shit gameplay has actual great writing to hold it up.
>>692814876>SMT peaked at the first half of SMT1.Also this is why the most underrated Fatlus game is Maken X. I fucking love that tense "world is going to shit and about to be pushed over the cliff and you have to fight against it" feeling that exists in Maken and the pre-nuke part of SMT1. I want a new Maken or at least a new Fatlus RPG with that same gloomy feeling of trying to pull a screwed up world back from the abyss used for the entire game. P2 has a bit of that too but I never really got the same feeling of tension from P3 and of course P4/5 are just anime friend simulators.
>>692814726Damn...I'll be honest, I can understand why Kamoshida decided to give her some more character growth. What a fucking hero. You earned that crown, King.
>>692813928SMT is gay because it got infected by Persona too much
>>692815469Doubtful. It would be pointless bait if that was the case. V is too explicit throwing the term soulmate around and gay bench dialog. I will admit it could have been worse. It could actually still get worse so I don't want to jinx it. They know it sells and they already said they are adding more content to V which might be more than navigators, especially with switch 2 on the horizon.
>>692815548Anon the average SMT fan in Japan is a woman in her 20's-30's
>>692815592So they know it sells. Hence my point.
>>692815605When I was thinking of gay I was thinking of the middle school colloquiums of cringe and lame Actual homosexual teasing, not really that new
>>692789556I do. SMT feels like an actual game that puts you straight into the crack-infused action, Persona is a fucking VN with all the text and yapping, good lord.
>>692789556I honestly just approach them individually without worrying about branding, I will say being able to use Ose is always a huge bonus, but not mandatory as i still liked both DDS games.
>>692815683Homo bullshit is not new to smt in general or persona. V pushes it a lot though and they know what they're doing. Looking at the anniversary art and merch will tell you that. In my personal opinion, if it stays with V, it's fine. They can push it as much as they want. Come out with all the merch and themed drinks, even let them fuck in a manga, I don't care. But if VI has the same gay bullshit shoved into it, that means they think smt needs obligatory fujo fanservice to sell. Then we've fallen.
>>692816212I'll concede to that. Pretty boy protags have been a thing since Nakajima, P2 pushed a little gayness whether nusona fans want to admit it or not but that's persona so who cares, women creamed nonstop to Raidou. The Aogami shit is a whole other level though.
>>692792143>More barebones than pokemonKind of true(not really...), but it means fuck all when the devs refuse to give the players any challange.Just get your starter and press A.I switched from Pokemon to Megaten, best decision ive made in the past 10 years, right at the top after my decision to go full NEETmode.
SMT5V bodies persona's combat and "exploration ", especially p3 and p4. As a whole though I think Metaphor is THE superior title to both the personas and smt5v personally.
>>692810928they won't, the bonds were streamlined and shortened and the game is so much better for it. You're there to make allies and squad compatriots not make your teacher dress up in a maid outfit.
>SMT5V>incomplete open world hackjob>boding anyone
Is Persona good if I've played SMT games. The teen rebel shit of 5 doesn't really intrigue me, but I feel like an autist when I'm the only person in fatlus discussions who knows nothing about Persona.
>>692817746DDS does what metaphor does but better. And the combat is faster.
>>692817984I'm going to play Metaphor
I like post apocalypse settings with religious and mythological themes more than slice of life high school settings. Thats about it really. Persona is still fun though.
>>692789556I do because I like the no bullshit straight gameplay and collecting demons.Don't care much about story or social links.
>>692818310don't
>>692797694I never beat it cause I got stuck on the Fly boss fight. I really need to sit down and try again now that I'm older.
>>692818531But the Atlus Faithful need me
The majority of people here originally played nothing but Persona and are merely larping like they cared about SMT
Is it crazy to say that SMTVV CoV story was better than Metaphor's post 9/11?
>>692797178soul hackers isn't similar to strange journey aesthetically but it's cool in its own right with a very late 90s futurism premise and story. just dont play the sequel
>>692819029Not at all. Also the Louis dick sucking is awful considering he's a super generic chaos rep. The fact he's a reference to Louis Cipher is kind of insulting. He has no nuance at all. He's just your typical tragic backstory villain who is so bullheaded, he can't see his ideals are completely flawed.
>>692819029SMTV had a story?
>>692789556yes
>>692789556Nocturne > SJ > 2 > DDS duology> mid games > 5V > 4 duology > dated > 1
>all the "SMT feels like a game" responsesYeah, it feels like a game alright... a shit game.
>>692819426Retard.
>>692819426Every SMT story is just "Law is being dicks and Chaos is opposing them and they're run by two assholes (but Chaos is slightly less of an asshole) and the actual answer is Neutral because 'FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME' by Drowning Pool."
5 had good combat and music, which is what matters in an SMTshame the story is so ass the world is also whatever. i liked exploring for stuff but eh. i had more fun with nocturne's actual dungeons than just avoiding enemies, ubisoft towers, and the game being super easy thanks to all the OP demons that are baseline from original game's DLC.
>>692819726>nocturne's actual dungeons than just avoiding enemiesThisRemoving random encounters is the worst thing
>>692819707Drowning Pool was let the bodies hit the floorKilling in the name of was Rage Against the Machine
>>692789556Nocturne was good, SMT V was dogsh!t
>>692819854I know that FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME was by Seether you tard.
>>692819893No now you're thinking of Broken featuring vocals by Amy Lee the cute girl from Evanescence
>>692789556>team up with your friends to kill demons>reveal the truth of the world>romance your kawaii waifuGay, lame, saccharine, enjoyed by those with arrested development who desperately seek love and affirmation but can't get it irlvs>team up with demons to kill your friends >forge your own truth for the world>create your own demon harem, then put them into a meat grinder for better statsCool, sexy, wicked, enjoyed by people with confidence in themselves and their own abilities
>>692789556Yeah that person is meVengeance is also the best recent Atlus game
>>692820125>put them into a meat grinderPixie WILL be coming into the final boss fight with me and that's that
>>692789556SMT is edgier and doesn't have the time management/dating sim elements. I like both games tho.
>>692819893What was he seething about?
>>692820125>team up with demons to kill your friends V gave you a loyal companion to the end and people are still bitching. He even talks and you get a revenge arc for his sake. I mean this isn't even new. Aogami basically is like a traditional heroine that just follows whatever the protag wants no matter what route they pick. Only IV and IVA changed this shit with Isabeau killing herself. Technically it started with Nocturne taking away the heroine all together but IV really shit the bed with the whole "kill your friends" shit. You've always had one loyal companion in almost every mainline game. You don't turn on everyone.
>>692820343being african, I guess
>>692820360>You don't turn on everyoneI do if they oppose the Dagda
I've been trying to play Metaphor and I think this is the final straw for me tolerating the "you can do one or two activities a day" bullshit
>>692789556Yes.I like demons and want an harem of sexy female demons to fight alongside me.Persona doesn't let me do that.
>>692820456I still don't understand why the bonds route overwrite him into a new character. Why not just kill him?
>>692821035Nanashi's life is tied to the Dagda's power, kill him outright and nobody is keeping you alive anymore
>>692819707But that's not what VV does at all. You've actually got to make a choice between law and chaos. Do you accept the system as it is and hope you can sway things down a better path. Or accept it is fundamentally broken and despite all the risks it is better to start again. Even the base game has fairly reasonable law and chaos endings.
>>692789556>What is it that makes people prefer SMT?atmosphere and setting actually being some fucked up shit not just "ordinary life but with magic demons nobody can see now you gotta listen to some more voice acted drawn out scenes it's been 2 minutes since the last one that's way too long"
>>692821218>Even the base game has fairly reasonable law and chaos endingsWouldn't know, I'm never going to side with that annoying dipshit or his butch angel
How viable is tank build in SMT V? I loved being a healer and support slut in both IV and IVA but I heard this game have tons of exclusive skill shit for MC.
>>692821382You have a crammable skill that reduces damage to the whole party and you can taunt. You're not doing any damage though.
>>692821382Tank roles don't really exist or make sense in SMT. Support beano is very much viable but there aren't many exclusive support skills.
>>692821382There's no real point taking on the healer role yourself when Idun exists
>>692821382Tank is unironically the strongest build in the game. VIT has the best scaling of any stat, you have taunting skills now in V that redirect attacks and a bunch of beano's skills are geared for support. Beano's ultimate skill gives him one free dodge which is actually the strongest because it works on almighty, plus he gets a passive for getting extra press turns for dodging. That said my favorite remains status ailment build and party.
>>692821524>Inflaming Divinity>Kannabi Veil>Evergreen Dance >Revival Cant>Luminiscent Mirage w/Intercalation and Fierce RoarSupport Beano fucks. Unironically has too many good unique support skills.
SMT has amanozako onahole
>>692821852I really hope SMT keeps going down the EO path pf aliments actually do something. They could even add binds, you could have fun integrating it into press turn.
>>692822110Oh yes
>>692821113They couldn't come up with a better way to keep him alive though? Anything is better than what they did.
>>692822110I don't know. PQ was absurdly easy if you ever used binds at all, I don't think you can just add them to a game wily nily like that. Megaten combat is not remotely balanced for stuff like that because the basic design of both games is almost antithetical to each other.
persona is just not good enough for 80 hours, I don't think they're bad but still I'm not gonna play a high school friend simulator for that long and the game's dungeon crawling gameplay gets old fast smt games are better but usually have glaring flaws because they always try new things, smt 4 and apocalypse are my favorites but they both have big issues, the former has broken difficulty, only being hard in the first few hours of the game and then being very easy, the latter has kinda meh story and characters but the best Megaten gameplay ever made. meanwhile persona 3 to 5 are just the same game with different story and settings, so it's just kinda boring
I hate smt v/vv 's map design. The old smt dungeons also have the shit in beaten off path design but I actually enjoy that there. It feels like the locations doesn't play a big role in the story. The design is getting too close to an open world platformer and I can't get into these games at all. The horrible map and constant "how do I get up there?" makes the experience infuriating.
>>692822425Maybe, I'm just telling you why killing him wasn't an optionIt wasn't the worst thing anyway, they just kinda hit him with a factory reset
>>692822616I mean, SMT gameplay isn't really different from Persona in any particularly notable way and I don't see how you could say that P5 plays like P3 if you think each SMT title is wildly different, so I don't know what to tell you. The story of P5 is largely retreads of 3 and 4 too, so I'm just confused about your post in general honestly.
>>692822720The map is the best part of the game and the first SMT game with real 3D level design, where verticality is not only relevant but critical. It was the natural evolution from IV were they were going for a more organic labyrinth like V but elevations are blocked behind loading screens so every environment is just flat space with an occasional and basic ramp. V finally feels like you're going through a ruin folded in on itself. This plus every enemy existing as an FoE with unique field properties is the biggest contributions to the genre
>>692822720smt v is so weird man, why are there only 2 dungeons? why did one of them suck balls and it might as well not be a dungeon? it's clear they ran out of money at some point because it's probably the worst story I've ever experienced in a jrpg and the pacing is all over the place. did vengeance fix any of these issues at all?
>>692822459I think it could work and be a good way to throw the player off. The set up I'd go for is you get 2 binds, 1 bind takes half a turn and 2 a full turn. Typically in EO bosses can break them fairly quick and gain a resistance so if you do disable a boss better get chunks in now. Preferably with an ecstasy like skill so you have to build a team for it. Late game for the player is all about that flow of buffs so bosses being able to interrupt it is a good way to make spinning the plates harder.
>>692822909I mean that's just not true, smt 3 to smt 4 have wildly different gameplay loops, meanwhile from P3 to p5 the biggest difference is that the main dungeons are no longer just randomly generated floors.
>>692822946It has 4 dungeons, the school, shakan, the castle and the temple. And even then every level in the game is designed like a giant dungeon
>>692823194>smt 3 to smt 4 have wildly different gameplay loops,The loop remains the same, you just have different tools to go through it. Often making it easier even, at least for stuff like buffs/debuffs which stop mattering because they're essentially free in later games. This is no different from the jump from P3/4 to P5 which has a lot of gameplay and combat changes, which is why I'm confused about the distinction you made.Plus being able to just hand turns over to other characters is arguably a bigger change than adding something like Smirk which just doubles down on the already existing approach.>meanwhile from P3 to p5 the biggest difference is that the main dungeons are no longer just randomly generated floors.That's probably the least meaningful change in the whole game though? The P5 dungeons might as well not even exist.
>>692823475NTA but the dungeons in P5 are the most significant change in the game for me and made the game like 10x more enjoyable to go through than 3 and 4.
>>692821852>>That said my favorite remains status ailment build and party.My fucking man.Making Mad Gasser in IV a full support because I thought he looked cool got me into using Ailments in IVA when I couldn't do it again thanks to affinities. What a blessing that was.
>>692823581of course they are, the dungeon changes are where most of the increased budget went to. it's by far the biggest change in p5 and one of the main reasons for catapulting the series to new heights. i think the guy you replied to is a fucking retard lol
>>692815592>implying there aren't tons of Japanese woman playing Persona>you only have to get near the franchise and you hear woman shipping characterssigh...
>>692823475>stuff like buffs/debuffs which stop mattering because they're essentially free in later games.No the opposite is true. Skills have become more expensive in SMT, 4A and VV both take notable steps up making it hard to spam the same buffs every turn. 3 buffs are cheap and the strength of stuff like evasion means you can start dodging everything very quickly. 4 nerfed evasion, but was generally an easier game where you could quickly make any skill overpowered through demon whispers. Buffs generally had a lower impact because of this, while gun (not in 3) and magic was favoured over strength. Do I need to go over magic in 3? We all know how they fucked it up. 4 also introduced companions which 4A built on to be a more versatile and player controlled mechanic. Listing every little change is getting boring so I'll just throw in V has magatsuhi and a bigger focus on skills that also buff/debuff and charge nerf. P3-5, well baton pass is a neat trick. About as significant a change as passing not using a press turn but the next full one.
>>692823581They don't do anything different from the previous dungeons in terms of their purpose in the game and they don't offer any actual hindrances to the player either so they don't really have a function other than enhancing the storytelling, they're also severely underutilized to the point that they are still designed like low level tutorial dungeons right up to the end. I'm not saying you can't like them, just that the overall gameplay wouldn't change at all if they were all Mementos layers instead.
>>692822909Well, I have no idea what to tell you. In SMT you can fuse mons and you're saying it has the same gameplay.
>>692824187You fuse them in Persona too
>>692824187you're literally replying to an 80 IQ subhuman lmao, he won't get it
>>692819127>just dont play the sequelI'll never not be mad at how much they fucked that up.
>>692823902If you just look at 1:1 comparisons between like Masukundas maybe, but the addition of other skills like Luster Candy/Debilitate along with general game balancing changes means you've essentially just got those boosted stats as a baseline. V fixed this (if you ignore P2W DLC), or at least I think so with the limited durations + changed costs, but for a while it was not something you thought much about at all. It ended up at the level of how big bosses are fought in older titles where you just stayed at 2 buffs/debuffs so they don't dekunda/dekaja at all, or rather no different than just popping a Mediarama occasionally.
>>692824298Sure you do
>>692824187They both fall under the same megaten umbrella and feature a lot of overlap in many areas from gameplay to storytelling. They literally have the same general skills 80% of the time, modern Persona even ditched the unique enemy approach to just have demons as well to lessen the gap. Obviously there's Persona/Demon fusion and the bosses all get fought with roughly the same combat loops, even moreso now that SMT has adopted the duration on buffs approach as well.They're not 1:1, but I did not make a 1:1 comparison.
>>692822946yeah this is one real dogshit aspect of 5, it really REALLY needed 30 dungeonsbut then dungeons don't even work with overworld enemies that are easily avoidable, you have to spend time setting up ambushes and lots of shit to make the encounters super likely to catch you and surprise you so you cant avoid them
>>692822946The whole map is a dungeon silly
>>692803028>5 is not SMT because I say so!Kill yourself.
>>692824805I get that. You can't say the whole mechanic isn't part of the gameplay, though. There's a lot of customization in catching and fusing different mons which surely makes the gameplay more of a 0.5:1. You could say there's a "loop" in that you like loops. Actually, I picked it up cuz it's a strong title in the monster catching genre. I never got around to P5 so my impression so far is the dungeons are weak too.
>>692819830Random encounters are dogshit. This has never been a good thing.
>>692824982no it isn't, the area design is not like any dungeon, and the overworld you can teleport to a save and heal after any battle you want without issue, the opposite of a dungeon. the overworld has no attrition at all, smt dungeons and jrpg dungeons in general have actual attrition, it is the entire point of a dungeon crawl>>692825556see above retard, and also >>692824907yes it has. being able to dodge all encounters is antithetical to any dungeon crawl, period. if you dont want random encounters, you have to put 3x more effort into your dungeon layout and area design, enemy placement, and coding so they move in unpredictable ways and can speed up to catch you etcwhich sure, go ahead and do, i'm happy to play that if you do itbut you dont, you just take out random encounters and do none of the extra work, so it ends up garbage
>>692825652Nope, still a dungeon.
>>692810698>I think it only has like 6 hours of storyThe story isn't the problem in VV. It's the unskippable tutorial sections impeding your every turn and effectively destroying any flow you might want after a couple of playthroughs. One of the more grating games to play long term even though they expect you to....play 6 times to see all the endings. Should have had a skip button for all the slice of life sections or just made Godborne NG+ with the Da'at parts only with stronger demons.
>>692825652>yes it has. being able to dodge all encounters is antithetical to any dungeon crawlOkay then just fight them.>B-but the game is FORCING ME TO DODGE THEM YOU DONT UNDERSTANDFucking retard.
>>692818871I'd think the majority started with SJ (DS) like myself. That game was praised a lot here back then. And I guess it's cool now because it's old. And emulation also got a lot better.
>>692825497Well my point was never that they're exactly the same series. Just that if you're going to say that SMT4 is considerably different than SMT3 in terms of gameplay, then I don't see why you wouldn't hold that same opinion for the jump up from P4 to P5.>never got around to P5 so my impression so far is the dungeons are weak too.I am a little biased against P5 since it felt like such wasted potential that only took the safe fanservice route every time as a fan of every Persona title before it (including spinoffs). Take this with a grain of salt and bitterness, but I can't see any of the appeal of the dungeons that other people do at all. They're much better looking than Tartarus or TV World and the fact that they're tied to story characters allows for environmental storytelling (which they mainly do superficially with obvious stuff like greedy man has a lot of gold around type stuff), I guess is all I can think to say that's positive. The rest of the game I'm not as negative about, but I think it's very boring.
>>692789556I like SMT because it has no dumb calendar system. I don't mind the high school setting but the stupid need to find the perfect order to do shit so you can min max and get the right party buffs is so much of a pain in the ass. Even in Metaphor its so annoying having to worry that I'll run out of time because I missed some silly activity that boosted my virtues enough to be able to do everything. SMT still has more flexibility in builds and is more fun. Could you imagine though in order to get good builds in SMT you had to do dumb virtue building shit to unlock stuff?
>>692825749>Nope, still a dungeon.You can cope post all you want, it's not a dungeon and has zero aspects that a dungeon has. It's no more a dungeon than walking across the world map in ff7 is a "dungeon" lmao
>>692789556SMT4 = SMT4A > Strange Journey > P4 > Devil Survivor 1 > P2IS = P2EP > SMT5 > DDS2 > PQ > P3 > P5S > P5 > P5T > Soul Hackers > Devil Survivor 2 > DDS1 > SMT2 > P4AU > SMT3 > P4A > Soul Hackers 2 > PQ2 > P4D > P1No, I haven't played the others.
>>692789556Most of /v/ does retarded faggot. You aren't unique.
>>692825862>Okay then just fight them.Are you stupid? The monsters are all incredibly easy to dodge because no work was put into the design. Whether I opt to fight them or not is irrelevant, faggots shouldn't be able to progress through a dungeon without expending resources continually, it is the entire point and has always been the entire point of them for 40 fucking years of video games and god knows however many years of d&d before that.
SMTfags were cursing at Persona writing so much that I was expecting some amazing things story wise.Then I played VV and you get edgy teenager complaing that cars are killing people Fuck off retards. Just admit that it's the same anime bullshit
>>692825652The economy in V is much more individual battle focused than attrition focused. You use way more resources per battle but it's easier to replenish them in-between battles, the entire game is designed around that philosophy. It's quite interesting playing this and Metaphor back to back, Vengeance is very radical while Metaphor is extremely traditionalist. I like both styles desu.
>Turns on EstomaProblem solved, I get fights until I no longer need them
>>692826038Yep, it's still a dungeon
>>692826097Incidentally, BG 3 the latest DnD game has the same economy style as SMT V where everything is individually battle focused but your resources in-between battles are easy to replenish and dungeons are not a battle of attrition anymore. Just something I found interesting in a global trend sort of way.
I riku arisu Prs understand
Allliiicccee
>>692824526>If you just look at 1:1 comparisons between like Masukundas maybeNot maybe, you do not dodge as much stuff with buffed evasion as you do in past games. Trying to compare stats like for like is pointless as the formulas have changed. If anything it has suffered from becoming a bit irrelevant. The cost isn't just a little higher either but unsustainable, along with now having single target and more moves with an additional buff/debuff effect how you go about all this is different. Pretending it isn't when the changes to buffs are still a controversial point is just dumb. People even still get mad about physical attacks not being HP based any more. SMT has changed a lot.
>>692826121It isn't though, it's sad that you can't see that
For me it's Alice
>>692826064>SMT4 = SMT4Ahow?
>>692826732SMT4 has better writing and pretty good gameplay but SMT4A has better gameplay and... passable writing. It's really not as unbearable as people say but it certainly has it's moments. I do like Gaston, but really that's it. The rest are whatever. Maitreya is one of the most memorable bosses in the whole franchise for me because of how fun he was to fight. and the stephen thing was pretty cool too
fusing Alice with me
>>692789556I like how unapologetically 90s-SMT feels.
>>692826719wow... i didn't know she was such a slut... do you think she provides other services other than just fighting demons?
>>692826551>Not maybe, you do not dodge as much stuff with buffed evasion as you do in past games.Yeah, just like I said? It used to be overkill because it was easily sustainable and overpowered, now it's just useful and sustainable. I don't think you're even talking about the same thing as me, anon. We're essentially riding parallel trains and with the empty seats here, neither of us seems to be connecting at all with each other's points.
>>692826889for me it's 4A>>4 but I see your pointI loved 4A's non human cast a lot more but 4 definitely had the better story and main castSMT always does way better with non-persona type protags (3, 4, SJ) and I loved the return of the cults from the old games in 4A
>>692827240The two of them together really are the best Atlus has ever made. I think 4 can be experienced on it's own just fine but 4A makes it a real complete package and it's a shame that most people will turn away from it because they saw "homeslice just went bananacakes". The only thing I explicitly don't like about Apocalypse is that the neutral route is the only one with actual longevity. Going Chaos or Law ends the game several hours before neutral does... unlike 4. (i'm a chaosfag)
>>6928275014A's endings don't really mesh with the traditional L/C/N categoriesyou basically beat YHVH and choose dagda or refuse dagda and go full humanity save the world but I agree 4+4A feels like a modernized 1+2 which is the best thing they could doinstead we're getting the unholy marriage of persona and SMT which is barely saved by good to great gameplay but the characters are insufferable (mainly referring to VV)
>>692827736Yoko and the Qadistu were great, Vs problem was Dazai and VV made him even worse
>>692789556Me
>>692827615zamn!! 300 year old demons look like THAT!?
>>692827865I found Dazai was actually one of the thing Vanilla V did right enough, you encounter him he is a fucking approval seeking loser, he gets peptalked by an Angel to find purpuse in serving God and becomes a Lawfag then he speedruns off the deepend (The bad part) when his idol has her own crisis of faith and he encourages her to become a Nahobino (because ultimately he cared more about her then her God's Order because she was the one who gave him his purpose). it's the other characters that are undercooked, i mean yeah, Yutzuru gets killed off but he has more narrative meaning and character in VV then V while in Vanilla V he just kinda exists.That's why im okay with VV speedrunning Dazai even harder, he had his focus in the old route, especially since it is still kinda the same angle, just now Mastema presumably Egostrokes him into going into the deep end before Abdiel loses the plot.
VV>SJ>Nocturne>IVA>I>II>IV>If...
I like Soul Hackers 2
>>692828519You would be a minority. It was garbage
>>6928268894A forgets it's own canon lore with its terrible writing
>>692789556>no calendar system>no boring school teen drama>no social links>no annoying characters hugging screen time>better combat systemfor me it's that simple, also I like religious/schizo/postapo themes SMT has a lot more than some cognitive dimensions or whatever persona has
>>692828161she's actually a 12 year old but forever
>>692789556I like both
>>692826121Even with a minimal amount of effort, a quick read of this thread cites gameplay as the main reason people prefer SMT. Shame you couldn't do the same.
>>692789556Yes, I got interested in Persona when I got my 3DS and saw Persona Q. Downloaded the Etrian Odyssey IV demo to get a feel for PQ. Fell in love with Etrian Odyssey instead. Felt around the SMT franchise and found my comfy zone with Soul Hackers. Eventually got V and though it was great.Now that Persona 4 is on Switch I tried it and it's goddamn fucking boring. SMT is the man's choice.
>>692789556Because I'm not a socially awkward fuck trying to relive my high school days like you sorry cunts.I had many friends, fucked many girls, had a great time. There's nothing that a Persona game can offer me that I haven't lived already.
>>692827865Yoko was okay but Qadistu were the lowest effort sexual appeal marketing possible for the definitive edition, a fatlus trademark at this pointI like tits and booba and sex as much as the next guy but all that pandering and the fact that it all felt like an afterthought dumped on top of an already flimsy plot was pretty disappointingthey built them up and they had all of like 3 fights that were piss easy and their animations were laughingly pandering...it's like john fatlus himself directly mocking you for wanting a proper SMT plot instead of softcore porn dating sim because they know their modern fans are persona coomers who want nothing but sex+angsty teens
>>692829086>There's nothing that a Persona game can offer me that I haven't lived already.So you lived as an effeminate highly emotional male?
>>692829132Quadistu are my favorite (4 demon group). They're all great party members and I love the team battle with them.
>>692829132I don't know what kind of designs you expected for the group of actual whoresAgrat was the best anyway
>>692829132A strange stance considering Lilith debuted in the series with a sexy design
>>692829306I'd have no problem with them if they were a fun side quest like Cleo but they're central to the plot much to its detriment>>692829315there is a way to incorporate booba and sexo into the design of characters where it isn't patronizing or pandering (see: tiamat, asherah, maya, satan, arioch, mara)fatlus did this with SJR too to a lesser degree and it's just outright pandering with no further thought put into it, it's all they can do with their modern definitive editions it seems
>>692829292KEK you got me there
>>692829758>maraOk I don't have to pretend you have a point anymore
>>692829882no one said you had to, I said my piece
One thing I really loved about VV Lilith was linking her back to her original Mesopotamian demons with the Tiamat connection. I always find it interesting in SMT when demons are unhappy about their current existence, being warped by newer more successful religions. But here is links in nicely to how many feel they've been betrayed and shackled by the authority of the throne.>>692829758This is very silly seeing as SMT has had just straight naked women before. Including Lilith who had her nips out in her first appearance.
>>692829942there's a fundamental difference between outright pandering and using sexual motifs...it's not even new for them to pander but Qadistu was a low point in VV for me, that's all there is to itif they didn't have boobs, molest themselves and moan when they hit you I think a lot more people would find them...not as compelling...I really don't get how this is controversial in any way to point out but this is /v/ so shame on me I guess
>>692829758They needed whore characters and they ended up somewhat like Succubus and similar demons, it's much simpler than you seem to think
i fuse alice in every smt game exception to iv because i was so naivee and new. i will replay iv and hopefully alice is in iv:apocalypse
also someone needs to mod Alice into smt3:nocture. We already have the pc version so why it's not happening?
>>692789556>but I like the downtimeAnd some people don't>And while having personas as party members gives more options for party makeup, it feels more fun to have actual characters around instead.Team building is fun. It's literally the whole appeal of the most popular RPG series of all time.
>>692830082>there's a fundamental difference between outright pandering and using sexual motifs
>>692830082The overt sexualisation is a fundamental trait that ties the four together as a group, it's not just pandering
>>692830783thanks for proving the pointI'm sure lilith was plastered all over the SMT1 box art...
>>692831474Now show VV's box art and explain what about it is pandering
>>692789556SMTV is the only good game they ever made.
>>692831656Sexy young man with his pussy facing the world
>>692831939I like they're positioned to form a Magatama
>>692831939Oh no all the boobs and the way they're molesting him I can't take it
SMTV > Metaphor
>>692835361nah
alice
>>692789556I usually prefer more gameplay heavy dungeon crawler style RPGs but press turn is not a good combat system
>>692789556How is the dungeon crawling in these games? Metaphor is the only Atlus game I played and they were serviceable at best.
>>692835453press turn is great, the one more system is just press turn but shittier
>>692835612SMTV is basically open world dungeons as opposed to the stuff you find in Metaphor
>>692835689I don't like one more either, I think both systems are bad I prefer EO
>>692835689I don't see any difference
>>692789556Persona's school setting and slice of life aspect doesn't interest me. Building up a team of demons to beat up other demons feels much more appealing.I want to give Persona another chance at some point, I've enjoyed SMT enough that I'm sure I'll find things to like.
>>692835361Yeah obviously, calendar games are inherently worse with the notable exception of P3
>>692789556for me downtime is putting down the console, the downtime in person feels incredibly tiresome for me.I want to have the ability to interact with the non "gameplay" content of the game when I choose to do so. games like IV or SJ have interesting bits of worldbuilding waiting for you to discover and interact with them if you want to, which I prefer to how they have to shove content designed for a time slot.
>>692821035cause it's funny
>>692789556if just one thing and nothing else musicin particular IV and V. I love the music in almost any atlus game, but the choice of sounds and the direction of compositions feels like it's made for me
SMT respects my time way more and is generally more compelling in gameplaymetaphor is a solid step up for persona esque titles and i would like some of its decisions regarding turn economy to be brought back to smt6 (use it or lose it half turns is better than smtv's system)
>>692810124the average age of the mainline fan is 35 in japan.
>>692789556Why is there so many trans people in SMT fanbase?
>>692835361I think so from a personal perspective but I think both games are extremely high quality in their own spaces and some of the best not just for Atlus but for the media.
>>692835904you can manipulate press turn to pick who gets the extra turnin one more it's always the same personthen with baton pass it's retarded because it's always wrong to give it to the same person
>>692826170I realized that's the reason why the entire game has one normal battle theme (at least in the base game) because you're rarely supposed to get into fights with normal mobs
>>692789556Me. I dislike VNs and school settings.>more fun to have actual charactersI often read that characters in nusonas are bad and they seems getting worse in each game. Aren't old fans still consider Persona 2 like the best one besides gameplay?
>>692842129There's also a battle theme for when you're in a classic dungeon.
>>692789556Yeah, I do. I can't stand Persona, I only want to kill and fuse demons with a fucking sick soundtrack (persona doesn't have this).
>>692789556SMT is a nice perfectly cooked medium rare steak from a five star steakhouse while Persona is a mcdouble.
>>692789556I dunno which I prefer more. Both scratch a separate itch and I enjoy both.Like if I'm in the mood for just sappy, cheesy bullshit, I can play P4. But if I want to delve hard into fusion autism and make the best demon I can from limited resources, I'll pick up Nocturne.
>>692843335technically the theme of the school "dungeon" is a battle theme too, but that comes back to your point of "focusing the economy around individual battles". the game also has a million battle themes played for one boss fight or a few.you can still try to add "MP management" aspect to it if you don't save from leyline to leyline (now that magatsurails exist that's the correct way to play the game)in general I think it's a correct observation to say that the game gave you too many tools to the point of effectively eliminating resource management, but in the other hand it gives you more or less absolute freedom to experience the content however you like.
>>692843664to me it's the exact opposite, part of mainline's appeal is how it's the punk and the underdog
>>692789556Tried playing Persona and realized I didn't give a single fuck about any of the characters are highschool bullshit and just want to fight demons, SMT is 1000% better.
>>692844238mcdonalds is more popular than 5 star steakhouses
I like both. Persona has time management and character interactions, while SMT is your pokemon I'm going to beat the shit out of Thor game.Persona should be more of its own though because every release (and I'm counting even Metaphor to be a part of it) they take the battle system or mechanics from A SMT game and somewhat dumb it's down in someway. Persona 5 had SMTIV shooting and demon negotiation (which I think is completely out of place for Persona since your demons are you and taking in other demons messes that shit up a good deal. Stick with shadows instead like 3 & 4) while Metaphor has Strange Journey with rows, synergies and multi physical.Persona needs more of its own stuff like using your allies that aren't a part of your party to help out instead of being stuck in the forever back of the bus. Like main group and support group. They should also reduce the amount of shit you get from social links since that makes the game too easy. Allies get more moves when they're closer to you, support links get more demon unlocks that should be it, instead of reducing the cost of everything to nothing.SMT needs more insane shit happening. Have a random small ass god Nuke Tokyo, turn your cat into a neko. have friends die. Like come oooon, Yoko had the right personality, but we needed more.
>>692845682but the steakhouse experience is more like what FF tries to be. even V which is without a doubt the most costly mainline game atlus has ever made doesn't feel like a AAA game.
>>692789556Gameplay Smt>personaStoryPersona>smtBut persona 5 had too much goddamn dialogue honestly
Devil Summoner Soul Hackers is the right amount of story and classic SMT gameplay.I still never played the original Devil Summoner. I loved the first Raidou game's setting, story, characters, music, everything, and it has an interesting action battle mechanic with demon summons as helpers, one at a time, but it felt a bit clunky. Heard the sequel has better action gameplay, wanna play it.
>>692789556I got bored and annoyed with Persona 3 and 4, never bothered with 5. The characteris were too annoying and I don't care much for the story framing. I'm about 80 hours into SMTV Vengeance, in the last zone. I find it a much more enjoyable game. I like the narrative being pseudo religious. I like the monsters being mythological creatures. I like all designs, both cool monsters, interesting dudes, cute and sexy women. The monster collection and fusion gives me a meta collection goal. It's satisfying to figure out how I can beat the fights. The exploration may be basic, but it's some nice down time fun. I liked SMTVV a loy more than I expected.
I think they both used to be great. There’s no denying that they’re definitely polished RPG series and even modern entries are leagues above the JRPG “standard,” but Atlus bent the knee at people wanting easy modes in games. SMT and Persona both used to feature difficulty as one of their selling points. While not the hardest games ever, stuff like Nocturne and even original P3 were notably more challenging than FF and Tales at the time and demanded more of the player in terms of team comp and understanding battle systems. They did this in different ways, with SMT sometimes limiting your demons and giving new boss challenges based on your story alignment, and Persona having time management that determined if/what new demons you were able to get during a playthrough. These aspects made it so you had to deal with the consequences of your actions (if you chose Law or if you chose to pursue relationships with the Hierophant links, you have to build parties with those types of demons in mind).With the addition of easy modes, you basically invited a flood of retard players who would rather post porn and fanfiction on Twitter than actually understand the game. SMTVV is still a great time, but the worst players will just turn it to Safety and enable the grinding mitama and still have the arrogance to claim they’re super fans of the franchise and do nothing to muddle up discussion by just being awful and cringy.Yes this is gatekeeping, but it’s gatekeeping to preserve a part of the series’ identities. Imagine if they listened to players saying Doom is too hard and added even easier modes with stuff like invincibility and one shot kills, and then those people who begged for shittier modes went on to flood discussions of the games with worthless opinions.I’m a firm believer that games can be easy or offer more than just gameplay challenges, but they should be their own thing rather than degrading existing franchises for the sake of inclusivity.
>>692847774Counterpoint: Rise was super hot.
>>692848528Yes and in general the aesthetics and designs of SMT and Persona are both wonderful (and have stayed wonderful)
>>692846507>But persona 5 had too much goddamn dialogue honestlyThis is what you're going to get when you ask for more story. IV was drowned in pointless dialog too.
>>692789556gonna have to go with Persona. I played the mainline Smt games and I prefer the low stake slice of life stuff to just wandering around killing shit while hoping to run into the fiends and farming the rando drops.
>>692810957Atlus likes money, so they must be thinking of remaking it. also 4 is a duology
>>692850591compared to like smt1 it's a lot, but smt4 is like 90-10 game to dialogue and persona 5 is 50-50. and p5 dialogue is all horrible
>>692789556I like both for different reasons but I love the gameplay in both. I don't mind hard or easy games as long as the combat FEELS good. Smt3 and persona 3 are equally my favorites of the series.Hated smt5 on the switch but Fivengeance addressed basically all my complaints and now I love it.
I like both, but if I were forced to pick one it would be SMT. Always appreciated the creation/destruction dynamic.On the Persona side of things, I really enjoyed Episode Aigis (expansion pass aside). Very healthy mix of combat, fusion and supplemental story bits. Playing on heartless, being forced to fuse purpose-built personas for the battles against SEES was great.
>>692789556I prefer Devil Survivor
Why do Persona games jerk off Japan while SMT games are more critical of it?
>>692822616>persona is just not good enough for 80 hours,I played them all like 3 times each.
Played in all.smt1 was good at start, but later there was no story.same with other games except persona, Raidou and DS.School setting in persona is boring, Raidou great and I love it. But japanese setting a bit weird + story in Raidou 1 not full, a lot of side story plot was cut.>great mansion with huge story3 text boxes totalAll other games didn't have plot except what was at start.
>>692851751persona 3 is about japan's suicide crisispersona 4 is about japanese tradition being choked out by americanizationpersona 5 is just a list of recent japanese scandals with an anime skin
Persona 3 is the best persona game.Smt 3 and 5 are the best SMT games.Persona 5 had some really fucking good ideas like technical hits and nuke/psi damage but was too easy for them to matter to most players and the pacing was god awful. Social links should be simplified and given less focus like how Metaphor does it. I'd prefer if they dropped the calendar system and found a new mechanic that isn't just dialogue options with 1 correct answer every time. Something more involved and fun.
>>692850591delusional
>>692852217>Social links should be simplified and given less focus like how Metaphor does it.Totally agree, I was thrilled when I just got MAG for "correct" answers instead of extra follower progress.I'd probably settle for just not having to have a persona of the matching arcana in stock though. Having to run to the velvet room to pull something from the compendium has always been total shit.
>>692852217>Persona 3 is the best persona game.I played P3R and thought Tartarus was trash along with the combat in general. There are too many days where you don't do anything as well. If Persona 3 is the best game Persona is a shit series.
>>692852062>persona 4 is about japanese tradition being choked out by americanizationReally? I thought it was about accepting yourself and finding a mystery killer.>>692797756Would kill for a remake of this or SJ.
>>692789556I prefer the kikes being dead over the kikes being alive
>>692825832>they expect you to....play 6 times to see all the endings.Most of the endings are an obvious afterthought anyway, all you you really need is: Canon of Creation True Neutral -> Canon of Vegeance Tao´s route. Its very blatant these are meant to be the "canon" endings.
>>692854185>Its very blatant these are meant to be the "canon" endingsNot until after you've seen the alternatives, you bonehead
>>692854185You'll piss off the Yoko fags with an opinion like that because they think her ending ungays the game or something.
>>692789556I played P5R and it just felt like a chore after Kamoshida i dunno why people give it so much praise. Then i played SMTVV and couldnt put it down i think maybe i like SMT more and might try 3 since people say its closer to 5's design.
>>692853935b-b-b-based
Smtiv mogs shitsona.
>>692854676Well I don't think there's romance in the game in general, but I do think Vengeance Chaos end and True Neutral are the best ending cinematics, with Vengeance being slightly cooler and more thematic. Vengeance Law is just bland overly happy shit.
>>692852062>>692853792Persona 4´s theme is the same as in any japanese coming-of-age story: shut the fuck up and learn to accept your role.
>>692857162WTF is this awful media literacy. Persona 4 was about not letting rumors and public expectation dictate your reality, literally to see through the fog of convenient "truths" and live your life honestly.
>>692855475>Well I don't think there's romance in the game in generalThen you probably missed the soulmate bullshit with the Nahobinos. Even Lahmu with his power hungry bullshit was promising Sahori the world and trying to make her like him. Yoko's ending is cool but it did not erase any of that which is why some people latch themselves onto that ending and say Tao's is bad. If you don't like Tao's ending because it's too feel good that's fine but it was nice seeing Tao and Sahori together.
>>692859110Soulmate isn't an inherently romantic term, they are literally two halves of one ancient being.
>>692859110>this shit againDo you never tire of being revealed as a moron?
>>692859110Looks like you missed that Lahmu didn't give a shit what Sahori thought of him, he told her what she wanted to hear so she would agree to assimilation. When she tried to change her mind later he didn't care because it was too late.
>>692851751>while SMT games are more critical of it?which is why all the irrelevant nip demons like Masakado are always super strong for no reason
>>692789556No.
>>692835361I actually disagree with this, Metaphor is probably up there with DDS1 as my favorite Fatlus game.
>>692789556>why would someone prefer a setting other than schoolAre you retarded? If you look at any game around most of them aren't slice of life. People play Dark Souls and Skyrim. The question is dumb.>am I a casualYes.
>>692854185lawfags are still coping after their dad got btfo lol
>>692851751Nigga, you're literally a japanese school boy merging with tron susanoo to be the bestest demi fiend there is in SMTV, don't give me that shit.
>>692861017Yeah, you have to do all that because of how shitty and weak Japan is
>>692789556SMT V was my first and only SMT and I had so much more fun with it than p5, the calendar system and all the relationship faggotry is not for me, the combat in the series is really good to be wasting most of the time reading.
>>692789556Depends of the game, Nocturne story is so fucking bad that I understand why people started to prefer Persona
>>692851751persona is about saving Japan and smt is about destroying it
>>692789556Tonally I prefer SMT, but I think Persona is on to something with breaking up the dungeon crawling.
>>692859248It's treated that way in the game. Every pair has instances of it. That's why I mentioned Lahmu because the scenes where he tries to make Sahori like his plan did not have to be there when he was already controlling her. It's framed like an abusive relationship where he's gaslighting her.
>>692789556I prefer it because of the darker themes/plot and overall post apocalyptic setting. love the idea of remaking or protecting the world and the philosophical themes. persona is dumb fun but it can be quite cringy at times
>>692789556SMT>Persona>Metaphor>You haven't played metaphorPre-ordered it, ended up hating how fucking soulless the archtype system is, how unoriginal the bonds are..it's just social links with no romance, and how retarded the real life metaphors and politics were handled, I have a bad feeling about Persona 6
>>692862943>I have a bad feeling about Persona 6As you should, Atlus are being rewarded with more popularity the worse that series gets. 5 already sucked eggs and Persona fans want it to go further.
>>692853792why you're gay and a dick, homofag
>>692862223I'd argue that Persona has darker themes at times because it deals with characters directly instead of just broader philosophical concepts and arguments, but it's definitely a different feeling and completely understandable why Persona doesn't come off like that considering how much slice of life bloat there is. Obviously SMT has the darker (and cooler) world overall, but I don't think anything in the games has ever hit me as hard as Maki or Rei did.
>>692851751because even at a surface level they have to have a case for each alignment. so if chaos is traditionally aligned with japanese nationalism and law with the west, they must make law make some sense. that does not mean there's no nippon banzai or jerking off certain deities in SMT. quite the opposite, the entire franchise exists because they represent world myth from a shinto viewpoint.
>>692862943>SMT>Persona>MetaphorThis his correct. All of them are incredible, btw.
>>692865648Wouldn't go that far, Metaphor is only just good enough to keep me from dropping it when the narrator says the same shit every single day as the calendar flips
>>692859958>Looks like you missed that Lahmu didn't give a shit what Sahori thought of himBecause his desire for power was more important to him than Sahori. That's why they couldn't fuse. It's like you've never seen what an abusive relationship looks like.
>>692865813Well, I am not far into the game either. I just completed the first palace. What I do criticize is how much it borrows from Persona. Like it is afraid of being its own thing.
>>692865867What an odd thing to be proud to have seen
>>692865992There's nothing wrong with taking pride in your work.
>>692789556Unless you are just a shit-eater contrarian then there is objectively no valid reason you would prefer SMT over Persona.
>>692865978Yes. This is what Metaphor is. A spin-off of Persona.
>>692865978One thing that I'll give it as a breakaway from Persona is at least they aren't afraid to have characters just get executed. A small refreshing oasis in a frustrating Persona-esque desert
>>692865992It's an odd thing for you to get upset with. Soulmate meant exactly what it meant. It's all over the game and all the pairs do it. What it doesn't mean is that all the relationships immediately snowball into romance, it means they will get there eventually. Many of the pairs have only just met and naturally you have roadblocks. Proto-fiends are autistic, Lahmu was self centered, etc. Also humans are naturally wary of someone they just met, soulmate shit or not. In a perfect world they would all be happy together but V's world is beyond fucked for multiple reasons.
>>692866536Oh, yes. It feels like an edgy Persona with the brake off. I enjoy that as well.
>>692866161???one is a gameplay first franchise and the other is a story first franchise, it makes perfect sense some would prefer one vs the other. there's no contrarianism about it.
>>692866676>it means they will get there eventuallyBecause you're seeing what you want to seeAnd if you don't see it then it's just not there yet but it will be
>>692867043lmao occultist bro. No wonder you like SMT.
>>692866536Shinjiro got murdered in cold blood, shot to death in a back alley by the antagonist.
>>692867510What an idiot.
>>692867510It's not the same, he saved a kid and got to make his peace with everyone around him as they all hugged and cried. Grius found himself unable to move and the bad guy in front of the whole capital decided to just casually slit his throat and leave his corpse on the ground
>>692867548Yeah, what a baka.>>692867772It is the same, Revolver Jesus was literally about to casually murder a child. Not to mention all the fucked up stuff in 1 and 2.
>>692868158>>692867510Don't forget you get to see Nanako die right in front of your eyes.
I went on an Atlus dive this year, I've almost completed my first SMTV playthrough, currently interrupted by Metaphor. Loving both btw.I'm clearly not woman-brained enough but I sense zero homo vibes from the MC and Aogami, for the entire game it has felt like a father-son relationship.I've also tried Nocturne but it is filtering the absolute hell out of me. I can't stand the random encounters, I can't stand the nightmarish menu navigation, I can't stand Demifiend taking a brisk jog through identical corridors. Two things I'll give it are its soundtrack and a far grittier tone than any other Atlus game I've played so far.
>>692868158But he didn't murder a child and Shinji got to instantly reverse years of being a little shit and die a hero's death. There's a big difference between that and a point being made to show how much the townsfolk like gathering around the gallows to watch hangings or people helpless and on their knees before a crowd being speared in the neck with no fanfare
>>692789556I don't like the social link/dating sim and calendar stuff but also like when there's more emphasis on the story than what the SMT games usually getSomething like Digital Devil Saga I guess, I had hopes for Metaphor when it was first hinted but once they revealed it has the calendar and sl elements I lost interest. Might still play it someday tho
>>692789556Funny you say that. Because the downtime stuff is the part I hate the most about Persona. Playing Persona 3 I was just wishing I could keep delving. But nah, gotta go to school, gotta build connections to get better personas, making friends with people only because I want the arcana.Once more also kind of sucks and one of my more memorable moments was me stunning a group of mini boss Shadows, declining the all out attack then doing it again after they got back up, stunlocking them forever until they died.
Honestly I kinda wish SMT V protagonist was a girl. Felt like the only time it could've actually worked.
>>692869169Bull vs snake, patriarch vs matriarch theme wouldn't work if he was female.
>>692869350That theme also wasn't really there when the game was first released
>Aogami comes back and replaces Tsukiyomi for the last fight in the new arcFUCK OFF. I really liked the new form better too. Like that's some stupid bullshit that happened.
>>692868652DDS is pretty damn cool. It wrapped up the story pretty well, but I'd like to see another game like it.
>>692869537man i thought the first game ended that DDS was going to be God's death game or something and only one team can reincarnate. that would be a fun idea for an SMT game. i want more horror themed SMT games damn have the full on dread and hopelessness. actually shounen SMT is fun too. not like smt3 though i want more survival horror like smt.
>>692869432The game was an underbaked mess fucked by covid shenanigans when first released. But I'm still curious what's your reason a femc for V would work and hypothetical femcs for I II III IV would not have?
>>692869739Oh I don't want a femc, I was just pointing out that the reason it couldn't fit didn't exist until Vengeance
>>6928697391 and 2 deal with the more son of man theme. 3 is whatever. 4 i mean flynn and nanashi are cool dudes with canon gfs. 5 mc had a boyfriend and he doesn't really seem to hit any of the girls up. "le handholding spork". idrgaf about the theme aspects but from a feeling perspective 5MC could've been a girl.
>>692869537One thing I liked that DDS did was how some skills were able to be used as combos for the price of extra turn presses.These combos are necessary if you want to beat the super bosses.
>>692869937So basically you jerked off to Bino/Aogami porn and want to imagine that situation not making you gay
>>692870089not really. i just think a girl would've fit better. there wasn't enough tao stuff anyways but tao was kinda plain biscuits even in the new route. we definitely need more asahi stuff holy shit asahi x nanashi is literally fucking sugar overload.
all these people stealin' my oxygen
>>692868620Yeah, the difference is one is shallow fluff and the other is meaningful character development that builds on the story's somber tone.
>>692870173Based surrogate and reincarnation sister appreciator
>>692870173What about a girl would have made it fit better? What would change?
>>692870458she would've been cute, she would've slayed.
you're right OP i was too used to SMT 1 and stuff
>>692870720also wtf my smt bros they put lego studs inside the walls???
here's my hot takepersona is a better first time experiencesmt is better for replays
>>692869169Doi wanted a FeMC, maybe next time.>>692869432It was, just not in focus. The ideas of bull/snake gods, etc were baked into the world but they flubbed it. Even some sort of Yoko character was planned as Chaos Heroine.
>>692789686>the two best entries killed the franchise
>>692789556Nocturne is the only one that really matters. But V Vengeance has pretty good gameplay.
>>692810957how bad does it feel to emulate?
>>692789556persona dungeons fucking suck. the worst part of those games is the actual JRPG part. mainline SMT can be frustrating but the dungeons are a lot more consistently engaging.
>>692869350>Bull vs snake, patriarch vs matriarch theme wouldn't work if he was female.It would work just fine because Aogami would still be male.
>>692867043The pair that knows each other the longest is the most romantically explicit relationship. The next most romantic is Miyazu and Khonsu and they have known each other for years prior to this via dreams. Are you seeing a trend here? I hope you aren't this stupid.
>>692789556Yes, because I care more about gameplay than a school setting that retarded japs refuse to get over.
>>692835702>dungeon>open world?
>>692869739I mean, why wouldn't it work?
>>692869472You cut open Orochi and found Murakumo in his belly. It's how the story goes
>>692872646>The pair that knows each other the longest is the most romantically explicit relationshipJust doesn't happen, this is made up
>>692826530Mariahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGNjzAAI8Gk
>>692873824That's not true, because I've been with Kaya-no-Hime for many seasons now and we're thicker than reeds.
>>692873824You don't think Yakumo and Nuwa were explicit enough when Amanozako literally says they are in love with each other?
>>692875407That's right, Nuwa liked me more
>>692789556I like SMT more.Persona has better story and characters, what bothers me is how many hours you need to spend to get into them.Persona 5 has a whopping 40+ hours of cutscenes, and more than half of it os just small talk like how was your day today or gee the phantom thieves rock/suck. A competed writer could tell a more compelling story with 1% of the dialogue.
>>692875853Persona has much more focus on the characters but most of them suck with the ratio of good to bad ones getting worse over time
>>692876063I can’t think of a single good character in mainline SMT.Maybe Nakajima if you count the novels but he’s in MT not SMT.
>>692876063Most Persona characters are written well though, almost all the social links were at least likeable people even if they weren't the most interesting. P5 dropped the ball on the main cast imo, but the side character social links are still good. It's really only the villains who are typically garbage in these games for some reason.I think you might be conflating story writing with character writing, anon.
>>692873384It would change the entire course of the story. If V were a girl he would not have half his antisocial traits. No reason for a cute girl that loves eclectic romantic poetry fusses over fashion trends and appreciates classic japanese beauty to hide in her room and have no friends and never smile and not engage in other kinds of self expression in her damn senior year of highschool. Feminine women are cherished, adored. Effeminate men are shunned, othered. It's a key part in understanding how his internal conflicts reflects the external one introduced in Vengeance.
>>692876734You say that, but Sayori isn't popular at all while embodying everything you just laid out and Atsuta is quite feminine himself. MC isn't shunned whatsoever either.
Chink games where you are an adolescent who gains occult powers over the entire world? I don't play em.
>>692868594Any normal enough person sees Aogomi/Nahobino as the unapologetic Japanese lord/retainer dynamic it is
>>692878372A Persona Q chad, I see. A connoisseur of grounded, character driven stories. Very based.
>>692790065bro the writing in SMTV is literally characters saying random heckin quirky one liners as if they were written by a redditor. that's your idea of great writing?
>>692878050Sahori was not unpopular. She had an attitude problem where she cared too much about tryharding at fucking highschool lacrosse and it caused beef with two lazy team members who targeted her out of cuntishness. It's such a perfect example of highschool drama girls voluntarily put themselves through.>yuzuru femLolwhut
>>692870720why you're such a tranny and women
>>692835361i have yet to play metaphor but smtvv music mogs metaphor so hard that is not even funny.
>>692825161open world slop auto battleshitty storyshitty charactersanti smt
>>692878867>Sahori was not unpopularPopular girls don't get ignored by the entire school and all the teachers because two average looking cunty girls bully them, anon. An attitude problem is a bad way of saying she's strict and the other girls are unlikeable too. That's besides the point anyway, the point is that there's plenty of justifications to make the femc similar to the male version we got. Moreso even since by your logic there's no way in hell he wouldn't be an extremely popular and sociable guy swarmed by women considering his personality and looks.>LolwhutIf you consider the Beano to be feminine, then you necessarily consider Atsuta as well since they're very similar in many areas from hobbies, mannerisms to even fashion. Just because he wears a polo shirt doesn't make him masculine, likewise just because Beano is lithe doesn't make him feminine.
>>692876734>If V were a girl he would not have half his antisocial traits.Yes he would. Sahori was also anti-social. She is literally just a parallel of him.
The best smt and persona is ur first :)
>>692882664retard, persona 5 is dogshit
>>692875853The most egregious part of 5 imo was the week where Joker is in captivity (I think its that part its been a few years) and every day is cycles through one if the party members and every day is just>He's so evil... We gotta stop him...!!>We can't let him get away with this, he must be stopped!>We can't let this stand we have to stop him...>So evil... We can't let this continue!Just skip forward, my god
>>692789556Dungeon crawling
>>692789556Well, SMT does something that Persona doesn't do very well and that's replay value. In SMT, you don't need to skip 2 hours of cutscenes to get to the meat and potatoes. It's just raw unfiltered gameplay and you don't need to skip much to get to it, which is something that most JRPGs actually struggle with, particularly Trails, certain Final Fantasy's, and Persona. SMT allows you to enjoy turn based combat instantly if you're ever feeling up for it but don't want to sit through dialogue to get to it.I like all of Atlus's IPs, but that's SMT's biggest strength imo.
>>692870089Why do people just not get that the game pushed them together heavily and that was kind of the whole point? Aogami was basically the neutral heroine. He did everything heroines from I and II did. Dearly loyal and swear to protect you no matter what fate you choose for the world. If you want the game to not be gay, switch out the femboy for a femMC. Nothing else changes. It's the exact same game. Why do you think the femMC mod is one of the top mods for smtv?
Should I play Persona 5 Royal or Metaphor?
>>692883747He's the same as Arthur and Burroughs lol, he's your buddy character. Dagda too but Dagda is a huge piece of shit not your buddy and that's how he likes it.
>>692884186>He's the same as Arthur and Burroughs lolNot even close. Aogami has more dialog. His own ending. A bench. Featured in multiple quests and cutscenes, and has a revenge arc dedicated to him.Also Burroughs is the goddess of tokyo and will turn on you if you don't do what she wants, as shown by the massacre end in IVA.
>>692883728To be fair the turn based combat is either extremely boring or completely RNG until later on and later SMT games have a LOT of dialogue to skip. Especially if you're playing SJ, IV/Apoc or VV. VV has the best replayability with the Godborn stuff though, so it's fine.
>>692792143Id argue SMT has a different personality.early mainline (SMT 1 and 2) as well as its spin offs are much darker and depressing than nu-persona and have mostly thrash / heavy metal soundtracks.I also think kaneko's interpretations of demons and his unique artstyle lends a lot to the gothic / occult appeal of those early games.It's also refreshing to not have to sit through hours of dialogue as the game straps you down and story dumps all over you unlike persona 3 onwards.most people dont give them the time of day due to their jankiness and unforgiving nature but SMT I will always be one of my favourite games ever.
>>692884785? VV has you skip 2 cutscenes and boom you're in Da'at. It doesn't even take 5 minutes.
idk why people call smt moments deep when it's just callbacks to old mythologylike damn some of you guys are like :O WOW THEY COMPLETELY DID THE THING LIKE IN THE THING!!! and i'm just like...uh so?
>>692884936And then not too long after you're booted back to Tokyo, with a lot of cutscenes and intermittent scenes sprinkled everywhere that you'd have to constantly skip. There's a lot of moments like that where you're taken out of the action for story and arbitrary reasons. I'm just saying it's not pure gameplay right from the start and that some later SMT's (the DS ones mostly) are comparable to early Persona titles in amount of story stuff, though obviously P4 and 5 still take the cake and eat it too.
>>692789556Yes. I wouldn't even touch Persona from 3 on because it's a gay high school dating sim.
>>6927901063 is the best one
>>692885234>smt references mythology>look they did the thing!Yes, that is literally me every time.
>>692885392You're not constantly skipping, you're thrown into the fray and running around gathering demons and fighting bosses. I'm not sure you and I are talking about the same game.
>>692886195You just don't remember the game very well. There's like 10+ hours of just talking cutscenes + tutorials + side events that don't count as cutscenes. And so on.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmNP6-eSe5o
>>692884487Also Amanozako was originally supposed to have all the tutorial and navigator lines like in the beginning of the game. But they cut it all and switched it to Aogami at the last minute because Atlus West complained. All those lines are still in the game too.
>>692870408>But it´s morning...Yep, i remember that line and how i corpsed seeing it.
>>692880714Idk how it was for you back then but generally unrelated parties didn't get involved in other people's drama no matter their popularity or clique. I maintain Sahori did not retreat into a depressive rut for being a normal girl but for pissing off the wrong bitch(s). They could have added additional insight into how brutal female socialization can be as backdrop for a hypothetical femc...except they already did with Yoko.>there's plenty of justifications to make the femc similar to the male version we gotI disagree and here's why. His flavor of androgyny dovetails seamlessly with VV's main conflict; between the masculine way of the world he's lived in, known all his life, but existed in a kind of dissonance, alien, not fitting in. Yet wanting to. And the various feminine viewpoints that were biblically undermined, suppressed and framed to be something immoral and antithetical to the ethics baked into societal conditioning. With this background, it's easy to see how his understanding of the worlds flaws can be very personal, more than someone who is comfortable and unchallenged with his masculine role. Doubly he can empathize with feminine vengeance, to be tempted to take out your anger on people who refuse to understand you, to put a stop to the thing you believe is making you feel so alien and alone. Yet Aogami, who is a mary sue on purpose because he is a thematic representation of pure patriarchal benevolence; strength, chivalry, self sacrifice, shows him the good side of man. The part that he loves. It's dissonance that became torture. Parallel to Yakumo, the hypocrisy of loving something that hurt you. This duality doesn't work with a femc, if she were a feminine girl there is no conflict of resenting masculinity that she doesn't have and she would have no reason to empathize with oppressing femininity in the way I described. If she were a masculine girl, this game would have sold no copies.
>>692880714Aside, Yuzuru is not androgynous in the same way, ok he also likes to read. He also built his entire personality around protec sister because that's how Vengeance decided to expand on his non character in V 2021 beta test. That's an arc not really related to this convo.
>>692789556Both Persona and SMT have shitty stories, but at least it isn't the main focus of SMT, unlike Persona.Persona is story focused, but the stories are always schlock and the gameplay is meh.On the other hand, even the most story driven SMT games have much more fun gameplay than Persona.
>>692888491Doesn't your post boil down to>feminine man can understand hurt women so that allows him to sympathize with YokoThen a woman should be able to understand the pain of an unfair system too. Right? I know Aogami is made out to be a flawless saint but he still benefits from an unbalanced system that favors bull gods.
>>692789556If I had to say my preference>GameplaySMT by a Mile, Persona should have more difficult gameplay but I feel like SMT could use more elaborate story telling. I don't think it should incorporate the calendar system per se but I think more like Digital Devil Saga. SMT games always feel rather lonely to me
>>692890615Women can understand when other women face sex based oppression yeah. I feel like I can't convey this as well as I want to, but I do not mean Vboy is literally facing on screen discrimination in game for being a sissy or faggy looking guy, or that his antisocial issues stem solely from struggling with expectations of being a man or shame for being effate. I'm saying Vengeance's overarching theme of bull kill serpent, women beneath men, parallels his internal teenage angst of the alienation of himself from others, and manifests as androgyny in his personality and appearance, as well as the more visually obvious change into a nahobino, and slow dehumanization the longer the story goes and the closer he becomes to a god (in which the androgyny theme kills another bird with same stone, with how important an aspect it is in Jew mythos which they cram into VV) he's trying harder to retain humanity in COV over COC though, because despite being this alien, other, divine, he wants to extend empathy to the others in law, to yoko and demons in chaos, what he wished was extended to him in the first place, but patriarchal inequality prevented them from doing so, so the story posits.
>>692795190lol
