if you liked mary skelter you will love etrian odyssey

top is an autoblattler
bottom you actually have to try

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>>693312645
Etrian, easily.

>>693312645
Get Refrain and emulate Etriam.

>>693312645
If you want both a dungeon crawler and a decent story go for Refrain. But if you want more gameplay and less story play Etrian Odyssey. Also it depends on the prices, Etrian has 3 games in it so it has more playtime. The first is not as good as the others but the second and third are great. Refrain is old now so you can get it cheap too.

>>693312645
Etrian for combat, Refrain for story/writing
whichever you're more in the mood for

>>693312857
>2 is better than 1
You're a joke

>>693312645
At the risk of sounding incredibly hyperbolic, Refrain and EO3 are masterpieces and i won't hear otherwise. If you want story go with Refrain and if you want a more gameplay-heavy experience go with the EO collection.

>>693312645
Pirate both, buy the game you enjoy more.

>>693312719
I thought it was okay but it was years ago and it didn't stick with me so that feeling is vague.

>>693312727
I've heard people say Refrain is more autobattle focused. If the character building is interesting enough that could still be fine. I'll keep that in mind though.

>>693312857
As far as the story goes I have a good amount of experience with NIS games including Witch and the Hundred Knight which I liked the story of a lot and I know thematically/tonally Refrain is kind of aligned with that. Conversely I've never played EO or its adjacent games so am not sure what to expect tonally there.

Refrain is £9.99
EO1HD is £14.39
EOHD Collection is £28.92

I was only really considering 1, not the full collection, for now, wasn't looking to spend that much. Although I suppose then it's worth asking if the games require you play them in order or if I should just get the best one whichever that is, if I'm only getting one?

>>693312645
I think Etrian is the better game but Refrain ain't bad, Etrian is just a very pure gameplay experience with very straightforward mechanics that make each level up and item found feel meaningful while Refrain is very heavy on story and layers upon layers of systems and loot that mostly just boil down to hitting auto-equip and auto-attack.

>>693313315
>Refrain is £9.99
>EO1HD is £14.39
>EOHD Collection is £28.92
Fatlus went full retard with the pricing on the EO ports. FUCK Fatlus.

Etrian still has Denuvo, despite having been released over a year ago.

>>693313315
>including Witch and the Hundred Knight which I liked the story of a lot and I know thematically/tonally Refrain is kind of aligned with tha
Not only that, it's the same series with the same writer. Izumi's games are mostly self-contained, but you'll pick up on a few nods to Hundred Knight and even more if you'd played the Japanese versions, fuck NISA
EOs are also self contained with no story beyond a loose premise to keep you moving forward in the labyrinth, you can play them in whatever order.

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>>693313554
Those EO prices are with a sale, hilariously enough.

>>693312790
this, the steam versions are not even the definitive etrian versions of those entries. etrian is better across the board but refrain is an amazing game if you like a much more grimdark story.

>>693313315
>Although I suppose then it's worth asking if the games require you play them in order or if I should just get the best one whichever that is, if I'm only getting one?
They build on each other mechanically but not narratively so the only downside to playing out of order is how much you'll miss things from the later games if you go back to the early ones.
If you do decide you only want "the best" one then you should probably go with 3HD over 1HD

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I must implore you to also look into DRPG Kowloon Youma Gakuen (Ki)
50% off

IMO EO is mid af as a dungeon crawler beyond the mapping. The maps arent great and the combat is mid at best and barely above autobattler unless you go out of your way to use weird builds (or playing EO3). EO1 is just tanking to no end, EO2 is a damage rush. Also all of them if you play on expert require grinding (to some degree) as is tradition for the genre. But grinding in it is shit. Its not fun and you cant optimise it beyond turnignt he difficulty down to explorer and then trying to to overlevel. Theyre overrated af. Theyre still good but they get sucked off here.

LoR combat whilst autobattling aside from FOEs or bosses has the risk of gore and the game revolves around optimising gear, skills etc. and ends up fun using 15 niggas in a row. The grinding is fun to some degree. the actual dungeon crawling part is way more fun even with the automap as each dungeon has a substory and the maps are more interesting/weird as walls dont take up a tile.

>>693313315
If youre gonna get one game out of EO do 3 as 1 is kind of bland, 2 is good but has issues, making 3 the better pick. Given you liked the story of WthK Id argue Refrain is a better pick. Though Galleria has a far better overarching plot but at the cost of the last part fo the game being cheap RNG floors and the dungeons not having variety visually (gameplay wise they destroy EO1-3's maps)

On the EO side, it's worth noting that their difficulty selections are misleading. "Expert" is the original, intended difficulty while "normal" is easy mode.

>>693314169
1 and 2 also have a better version with more features called untold on other consoles.

I still can't get over how fucking ugly the font atlus used for the etrian HD collection is.

>>693313927
Didn't knew this existed. Wishlisted

>>693312727
>top is an autoblattler
I'll never understand people who play Labyrinth of Refrain and just quickly drop in and out of dungeon floors without ever staying long enough for the stakes to rise.
The game rewards long, difficult dungeon skirmishes. Just tipping your toes in and out 10 times in a row instead of doing one 10x long singular dungeon crawl with genuine stakes, huge rewards, and actual diffiulty. Just sounds lame as hell. I genuinely don't get it. It'd be like playing Final Fantasy and doing nothing but grind early game trash mobs until you're higher level than all the bosses instead of actually trying to engage with the mechanics of the game.

>>693313927
I accidentally deleted all my starting equipment, should I restart? This box cuter isn't doing shit to the mummies.

Can you increase game speed in EO HD? Otherwise it's pretty painful. Traveling the dungeon especially.

>>693315398
People saying the game is an "autobattler" are being dishonest and are just using this as an insult (mostly rabid EO fans). But, it's a matter of fact which I can't argue with, that the combat in the game does indeed mostly consist of just ordering your puppets to Attack. Until late(r) game, when you rock donum motherfucking defense formation and do six digits of damage to enemies resistant to magic anyway.
There's not much at stake there, as you can cruise through the dungeons virtually endlessly, unless you get ambushed by a group of beheading fairies. Usually you just get tired of losing puppet part to RNG crit gores and dip out back to town to repair. But the mud exists trivialize this, since you just come back to the same spot where you left and continue exploration.
The combat is not really hard in the Labyrinth games outside of the boss encounters. Even the FOEs become farmable soon after you encounter them for the first time. But there's nothing wrong with that design paradigm, because not every DRPG has to be Etrian Odyssey. Labyrinth games have their own strong points.

>>693312645
Etrian. Always Etrian.
Atlus when it wanted to kick you in the ass is gaming at it's finest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB_PVPyn6n8

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>>693315626
have you tried looking at the options

>>693315398
nobody wants to die to some bs and lose 3 hours of progress

>>693316425
only played the DS version on a modified OS

>>693315398
Actually this is another thing I didnt like with EO. You spend most of the games just trying to either:
>maintain enough money to spam amaretas or whatever to maintain mana to stay in the dungeon and then you have to contend with a shit 60 item limit.
>do multiple trips spamming skills to get through to a puzzle without dragging out the combat only to drag out having to go back and forth between the city and whatever floor youre on.
In Refrain I spend ages in various floors of the three towers area onyl leaving if I had to for progression, getting overmana'd or being half dead which was more rewarding to survive. in Galleria I fucked up a turn order and ended up in a fight with a FOE a few times and the 'OH SHIT' factor was more impressive vs meeting on in EO.

EO is fine as the quoted Anon has said but people shit on the Labyrinth games for no reason other than it being designed to the other extreme (Owhich I personally find more enjoyable). An ideal blend would be making the combat in the game more interestign which it was in Galleria even with its small changes, or EO gets more interesting maps and logistics. Mainly via not making walls take up a fucking tile thus making the designs heavily predictable or anticlimatic.

>>693312645
Etrian > Refrain > Mary Skelter, the quality gap between each is fairly big too

>>693312645
Top for the plot
Bottom for the gameplay

>>693316902
speed up has been a feature since untold 1.

>>693316425
Idk the game pacing is slow even with the action speed being turned up. And not in a cautious way as youre just looking at the encounter rate meter rising and at least in 1-3 theres basically no risk of multiple or sequencial combats aside from FOEs or overmap units randomly bumping into you. The games feel sloggish at times.

>>693312645
refrain if you are a story fag, eo if you are a gameplay fag

>>693315398
The problem is that excelling in Refrain just means having high enough stats. Stack evasion, get your attack high, and that's all you can do. The battles play themselves.

>>693317202
which is why the game is balanced around high damage and shutdowns. what keeps encounters engaging is that you have to take them seriously and use your tp.

>>693313315
>I've heard people say Refrain is more autobattle focused. If the character building is interesting enough that could still be fine. I'll keep that in mind though.
You stack evasion and damage and fish for crits. The story and dungeon exploration aren't bad, the character building and combat are worthless.

>>693313315
>I was only really considering 1, not the full collection, for now, wasn't looking to spend that much. Although I suppose then it's worth asking if the games require you play them in order or if I should just get the best one whichever that is, if I'm only getting one?
Absolutely skip straight to 3. It's much better than the first 2. If you love it you can check out the others, if you just like it they probably won't be worth it. The stories are not related.

>>693317569
>>693317663
>Stack evasion, get your attack high
Low DMP posts.

>>693317770
DMP is an attack stat too. Stack that and evasion and you have a good caster.

>>693317623
Theyre not, Ive played through 1-3 with an auto attack party just to stay in the dungeon for longer and not have to make 467383493923 trips and be able to reach bosses without needing to spend loads of money. Its just overrated af and its annoying. Theyre good games but people here suck EO's dick so much. 3 on expert has AWFUL xp and money scaling especfially at the start. The only encounters you have to spend TP on are ones with annoying af enemies where its just to end it faster so you can move on, or FOEs. The only 'oh shit I need to use skills or Im fucked' enemies are rare and basically just the flowers that sleep your party. I dont feel at risk, but Im given a boring slog rather than actual actual risky gambit. ITs to the point that its basically an autobattler except you click into a menu before each character as int he scenario you bring up you spam the same "skill" every time anyway. Having my astroligist spam element attacks is not really any different from auto attacking (FP becomes a none issue either through grinding for money or you make the cost back immediately) or you have the arbalist run the SAME chase or setup sequence every turn.

>>693317750
2 is better than 1 as the damage rush is more risky and odds of victory change frequently. 1 is slow trading with one another where you basically win through attrition. 2 only has the retarded design where FOEs grant no xp (whoever implemented this is a retard).

>>693318245
Just use dark ether for infinite TP instead of putting yourself through that absurd nonsense. Buy some amritas.

>>693318245
all I'm getting from this is you're a fucking idiot.

>>693318245
>or you have the arbalist run the SAME chase or setup sequence every turn.
Most of your post is insanity, but it is true that Etrian combat is mostly just going through your team's optimal combos again and again. For dungeon crawlers where you need to frequently adapt to what the enemy is doing, check out Labyrinth of Touhou and Potato Flowers in Full Bloom.

ITT niggas crying a DRPG is not a SRPG

>>693318245
>autoattacks through the whole game
>"Why do I have to grind so much in Etrian 3??"

>>693318832
is there anything wrong with that? that's the point where your party clicks. and the games have other ways of keeping you on your toes like conditional drops and FOEs/bosses.

>>693318547
>No Argument
I have an issue with you fags acting like EO is this deep flawless game thats the epitome of DRPGs when to has flaws that make the game a chore to get through at times, or at least have devisive elements to its game design. Theyre still good games but the dickriding is obnoxious.
>>693318524
I do but you cant do it in every game and that only somewhat alleviates the issue of the game being built around short trips where you mostly just map one floor at max in most cases. You arent really rewarded for staying longer. The combat is still just a loop and barely any higher than autoattacking that warrants claiming its massively different.

to prove how boring the combat can get in EO in EO1 and EO2 I have a main party that enters the new floors, I get some money then feed my gather party whcih is just 5 survivalists which are geared to autoattack ambush every enemy in 1-2 turns (at worst I have to power shot whcih as I explained is basically autoattack with two extra button presses needed) to gather money and resources until I can buy gear to do the same shit for my main party if they hit a slog/roadblock.

>>693319154
>I have an issue with you fags acting like EO is this deep flawless game thats the epitome of DRPGs
did I say that at any point? you're trying to tell me you refused to do anything but brute force through the game by autobattling. you're insane, I'm not arguing with you.

I pirated this version of Etrian Odyssey to play via the Switch emulator, and I found the gameplay to be terrible because of how the map works with the controller. It's terrible honestly and breaks the whole game in my opinion. I played it on the DS a thousand years ago and it was totally acceptable because you played with the stylus in your hand, but honestly the new version is crap.

>>693319308
Works great on PC, you can do everything for exploration and combat with one hand on wasd while drawing the map with the mouse

>>693319137
In EO3 even with a none autoattack party the little grind that is there is dull as the gameplay loop is tedious and repetitive as it revolves around spammign the same skills (2-3 button presses above autoattacking) and looping short runs.

I really dont get why you fags suck it off so much. You can break it but the core design of the game while fun isnt some holy grail its propped up to be on here.

>>693318832
This anon msotly gets my issue.
>>693319109
Id have no issue with it if retards didnt act liek it has some godly gameplay and shit on any other DRPG when given the chance.
>>693319141
The loop and clicking is fun when youre building to it. When its there its where the game enters a very samey loop and is where the dungeon mechanics that are average at best need to take over like they do at this point in other games.

>>693319141
>is there anything wrong with that?
I think so. Given how much time is spent in combat in these games they should put some gameplay in there. Conditional drops and FOEs are both great.

>>693319290
No, as I said Ive done skill spam playthroughs and they arent that much more involved than autobattling and if anything it just becomes a bit more risky as status effects that stop that become more damning making the risk higher but the reward for doing it isnt much different.

It basically boils down to me finding the core combat mechanics average at best and the rest of the game aside from art and music is average and doesnt alleviate this issue. spammign allslash every combat is some mythical god tier gameplay in comparison to autoattacking.

What do you experts think of Class of Heroes? I'm playing the first one on hard difficulty and although I'm kind of hooked because I want to improve my characters' weapons and skills, in the end I'm finding the game super braindead and often unpleasant to play.

>>693319942
Ive played 30mins of 1 but its on the backlog again as I was burnt out and busy irl. It seemed fun but its one of those that you need to plan ahead a lot before you even set foot int he dungeon the first time as it has weird systems.

>>693312645
EO no question.

I'm doing a playthrough of 5 right now with a chase link team and it's a lot of fun

Any anons who like Etrian Odyssey should check out Dungeon Travelers. Compared to EO I'd say its combat is a bit better, its dungeons are a lot better, but it's weaker in party building. Dungeon Travelers 2 is a good starting point.

>>693320174
I've played DT2, it's fine.

>>693320149
Beware the space elephant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OZ8ZILdWTs

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Neldo my BRO...

DRPGs are not supposed to have deep combat, being able to autobattle most of them is actually good design.
The fun is in uncovering the dungeon and progressing (automap sucks though and I cant believe it became a genre staple)

>>693320174
The problem with dungeon travelers is how long it takes to get going. It's good when you unlock intermediate classes at level 15 and great with advanced classes at level 30. Those first 15 levels are kind of bland though.

>>693320674
If I had time and skill to make a game Id combine SRPGs and DRPGs. The only issue would be the fast small combats would end up being annoying without an autoresolve or making them longer to not be annoying to be not too long to pad out the game.

>>693320674
>DRPGs are not supposed to have deep combat, being able to autobattle most of them is actually good design.
>automap sucks though and I cant believe it became a genre staple
These are two astonishingly bad takes. Enjoy your busywork simulators, I guess

>>693320930
So you want battles to be slow and strategic but you dont want to draw the map
Why dont you just play a strategy game idiot

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>>693320894
SRPG combat takes too damn long and is usually only marginally deeper than standard JRPG gameplay. DRPG combat should aim to combine brevity and depth.

>>693320174
Probably one of the worst DRPGs I've ever had the displeasure of playing till the end, minus the post game. I really can't understand how anyone can like it. Being able to save anywhere ruins any difficulty it might have . No map drawing, shitty labyrinthine corridor design with no basis in reality, just filling every tile on a grid paper in a away that might as well be randomly generated. Tedious one way door traps spammed so much, that every single door might as well be one way. Despite all the tedium it's filled with, it still somehow manages to feel like a cake walk, due to the ability to save anywhere. There is one single reason to play this game. If you like the girls and the lewds involved. The only reason I play it as far as I did, is because I was desperate to scratch my DRPG itch.

>>693321006
I want them to be quick and tactical, why don't you go play with graphing paper retard
Oh wait that's exactly what you do lol

>>693321135
>quick and tactical
So you jus want pokemon/hit the weakness nonsense, which ends up being boring and restrictive in its own way

Not my favorite DRPG but I enjoyed Demons Gaze way more than I thought I would

>>693321059
Defeat is very non-punishing, but I die way more often in DT than in EO. Which is harder depends on how you characterize difficulty.
Neither is a game that a given individual is likely to find themselves unable to beat because it's too hard, they're both easy from that perspective like 99% of RPGs are.

>>693320894
>>693321043
Kowloon does SRPG well by making it so that each room is "cleared" once you beat it and the enemies won't reappear until you rest. Yeah, it might be trivially a SRPG since you only have one character to move, but I think that streamlines it enough to stay fun, and also keeps immersion between combat and exploration since you're always in the same "space".

>>693321365
EO bosses can be very difficult unless you grind the shit out of the game, i could easily see someone getting fileted by them

>>693321043
SRPGs I find just pussy aroudn with the number of units and make even basic dudes take too long to kill to compensate. It would work if you didnt code enemies to act 1 at a time when theyre in large groups. the main reason I suggest it is because the good SRPGs often have scenarios/maps that would be fitting in DRPG's settings if done well. The other possibility is to still allow for the parry to move in the overworld whislt combat is happening but youd have to make the game able to handle two maps conjoined with one another

>>693321217
>So you jus want pokemon/hit the weakness nonsense
No that's gay. Give me some real defensive tactics beyond buffs, debuffs, and healing. Give me enemies whose behavior I have to respond to instead of just going through my team's optimal motions for the 200th time.

>>693321467
Name one game with combat like that anon
If you want ACTUAL tactics you need slow battles, there is no way around it, and slow battles in a dungeon crawler would get tiring so fast

>>693321457
Maybe it would work if the maps were really small, like one unit can cross the map in two moves maximum, and had a relatively small number of units

>>693321542
I named two:
>>693318832
>Labyrinth of Touhou and Potato Flowers in Full Bloom.
LoT is only really good in its boss fights, but it has a ton of boss fights and they're very good. In Potato Flowers even trash enemies are a blast, but it's a short game at around 20 hours for a first playthrough.

>>693321416
Id probably like that but Id miss the party elements. That sounds more like a soulslike placed onto the DRPG genre.

>>693321653
Ok I havent played those so Ill have to shut up

>>693321551
Tbh I dont get how SRPGS are cucked to small scale. Its been the same for 20+ years. Disgaea has the odd big map as does Fire Emblem, Tactics Ogre and FFT. Surely it wouldnt be that hard to scale it up a bit more now even if its exponential. Even turn queues couldve been solved by multicore processing by now.

>>693321829
big maps mean many turns spent moving units and not attacking, people hate that

>>693321365
If it didn't have the ability to save anywhere, it would indeed be harder. Of course it would be designed differently, if that was the case. As is, it would be too tedious, if the saving ability was just removed without any other changes. Personally I greatly prefer a more balanced difficulty, that still poses a challenge, and comes with more risk. There is never any risk, in a game where you can save anywhere, no matter how hard individual battles are. The attrition that a dungeon forces upon your party is an important part of dungeon delving, it forces you to manage your resources, and weigh your chances on taking your exploration further, or giving up, and returning to regroup in town. With mid-dungeon saves, that can never be the case.

>>693321936
Agreed

>>693312645
Refrain for "le story" but braindead auto-battler gameplay from my understanding, EO for challenging gameplay and a comfy adventure (I've only played 4 but I heard the others are great too)

>>693321898
I more meant in the case of mixing with DRPGs havign a horde event where youre in combat for most of the battle havign to either clear the way or reach a point on the other end of the map without just abusing high movement units or units that can negate the 3 dudes the game puts down. Personally I dont mind the positioning phase but its often not done well or the enemy doesnt react properly and either just tutles or bumb rushes you.

It basically seems my idea would only work if everything worked perfectly which is never gonna happen.

>>693321735
If dungeon designs are important to you, labyrinth of touhou's are not very good. Potato flowers has good dungeons and combat.

>>693312645
how do i get into these types of games

>>693312645
Why only one? You gonna fall into debt over the extra game or what?

>>693322487
Buy EO4

>>693322357
The most accessible ones are on 3DS

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>>693320894
SRPG and DRPG you say?
but seriously, I also can't stand the slow speed of SRPGs these days either, even though you actually can play these as a SRPG
remaster when

>>693323095
While I like them theyre not massively what I mean (that and the peak of that genre happened with Explorers of sky and the OG pokemon rescue teams). I was more suggesting that every tile be a map and if you encounter an enemy unit in the dungeon overworld it starts a typical SRPG battle (ambushes having your units start in teh middle or whatever and potentially being in a shit formation depending on how much you want to fuck over the player). The only issues with this would eb the effort and memory needed.

My approach would be
>proceedurally generate the maps, get good ones and make them better and make variants from them.
>attribute them to a tile
>thus most combats are unique
This would only fail with modern devs as they would really half arse the design stage and make the differences trivial or leave them random to the point the two maps next to each other dont feel coeherently connected. That and filesize bloat.

>>693321936
I like traditional roguelikes where I need to get through the game without letting my health hit zero once, and dungeon travelers where any one random encounter can wipe me, to little consequence, better than I like the middle ground that is etrian odyssey. I can find a losing battle in DT exciting even if nothing really changes if I lose.

>>693323095
That's because they play like roguelikes rather than SRPGs

>>693319308
You can use the touchscreen on the Steam Deck. You need to supply your own stylus or use a finger, though.

>>693323632
I'm not saying they can't be exciting. I mean losing a long battle at the end can still feel like a pretty big loss. EO bosses are this way as well after all, as at that point you don't really lose anything but the battle. But it greatly reduces tension from the labyrinth exploration itself. Even trivializes it, leaving mostly tedium. You can't have those moments you have in EO, where you are about to teleport back to town, only to notice you forgot to buy Ariadne threads, and then you barely manage to make it back to town with just a sliver of health left, for example. You don't have to consider risks of exploring areas that might have traps, like some of the infamous scripted ambushes in EO, mess up and get sandwiched by FOEs, and so on. Why would anyone not want that kind of fun gameplay? Roguelikes are an entirely different matter, considering they usually only take roughly a day from start to finish, but I obviously enjoy them as well. I do admit I'm a bit confused, why someone who likes them, would not prefer the middle ground, over going for save anywhere. It's just a very weird stance to have.

>>693312645
Emulate the 3DS EO games, don't buy anything.

>>693325349
>don't show Atlus there's an interest in an EO6 by buying the games, just pirate them

Typical third worlder behavior

>>693325525
It's been over a year anon, we've already showed Atlus there isn't an interest.
Hell, I've been interested myself in buying the games but the fact I'm still having a debate with myself over buying them at 73% off is insane.

>>693325525
Kill yourself, bootlicker

>>693325306
See Ive never had this while playing EO as I always carry 3 and Ive only once dropped down to 1 by accident. The risk of leaving isnt ever an issue an removes tension. I care more about get getting ambushed by petaloids. I feel like a good way to fix threads and mud exits in the labyrinth's case is to make them take several turns to setup (though in Labyrinths case you can just witch's bell). so you have to plan in advance. That and maybe limit the amoutj you can hold to avoid what I do in EO.

>>693325796
>supporting game series that you like is boot licking
Ok rajeet

>>693326072
>SAAR YOU MUST DO THE NEEDFUL AND BUY THE OVERPRICED PORTS OF THE WORST EO GAMES!!!
Only Indian here is you.

>>693326218
EO3 is one of the best games, though

>>693326320
>EO3 is one of the best games, though
That's true

>>693312645
Top is fun and fulfilling
Bottom is a Tedious grind to deal with the overtunned difficulty

>>693325306
>You can't have those moments you have in EO, where you are about to teleport back to town, only to notice you forgot to buy Ariadne threads, and then you barely manage to make it back to town with just a sliver of health left, for example.
Those are a lot of the best moments I've had in the series. They should add areas you can't thread out of or something like that to force you into those situations. If that kind of thing was a normal part of the EO experience I'm sure I'd prefer it over DT, as is Etrian only gives me those ultratense survival situations when I mess up, usually I notice I have no thread before it becomes dangerous.

>>693326772
Refrain has no gameplay besides the grind

>>693326026
I always buy 3 threads as well, but I always have at least a few times in every playthrough, where I end up forgetting to restock, despite that. Huh, who would have thought that my forgetfulness might actually benefit me in this way, to make for a better gaming experience. But I'm not talking only about forgetting threads. Surely there are times, when you're considering whether to attempt to push further, or teleport back to town? Does that note create tension for you? You're weighing saving time in the long run, but risking time lost. Maybe you got cornered by a FOE, you're almost certain there's a shortcut waiting soon, considering how far you are in the level, do you risk the fight with the FOE, or do you retreat to town? That kind of a choice should be interesting to most people.

>>693326858
Its a good grind because it fueled by the disgaea devs. Theres so much to grind in so many ways.
Etrians grind is literally walking back and forth to resource points to get a pittance of gold so you can buy the new gear in the shop

>>693326772
Imagine needing to grind in any EO game. The only point grinding is necessary, is for the final post game superboss, unless you cheese it with some strategy you picked up from youtube of course.

>>693327141
That's not grinding that's farming

>>693312645
refrain is like 10 bucks right now and leads into one of the best video game stories ever told.
EO is alright just in gameplay it has really nothing else going for it.

>>693327141
You're not supposed to buy all gear upgrades. Manage your resources like a normal person, and deal with having sub optimal gear now and then.

>>693312645
Story Refrain, otherwise EO3. So depends what's more important to you, a good game but a relatively basic story, or a good story but a more basic game. Personally I'd recommend both at some point.

What's the story in Refrain like? I hope it's not typical JRPG bullshit

>>693328373
It's typical JRPG bullshit

>>693328373
Despair, but also despair.

>>693328489
oh....

>>693328573
>>693328489
>>693328573
Don't listen to him anon! It does have anime tropes in it, but I wouldn't call it a typical JRPG story. The witchy theme it has going for it lends it to some fun quirky twists and story telling.

>>693328373
I don't know what they see in it. it's nothing new, groundbreaking or even well executed. it's just there to distract you from the awful gameplay.

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>>693328373
it starts off as a SoL thing witha little bit of mystery and comedy then turns into a tragedy drama. It's hard to explain because there's nothing else quite like it to compare it to.
A large amount of people hate it because they go in expecting a disgaea type deal and get an actual story that gets incredibly grim at times.

>>693329042
oh it's yuri. that explains this thread.

>>693329294
Moooooods

>>693329042
I actually avoided it BECAUSE I expected a disgaea type deal but now I'm interested.

>>693329294
good thing you censored it, you wont get banned now

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>>693329294
jesus

blessed cunny poster
just bought refrain, thanks for shilling it bros
will we ever get the later EO games on pc? I've been waiting to get into it until then

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>>693312645
Wizardry variants, it's free

>>693329596
It's possible

>>693329636
>gacha
No way homo

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i boughted EO HD collection full price
fuck you

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>>693329191
If you go in expecting a yuri romance story you're going to be extremely disappointed
>>693329336
It takes its self very seriously and doesn't resemble a disgaea story whatsoever. I would say its tone is kinda similar to nier or drakengard? I may just say because it has emi evans doing some of the songs though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9QE_30MRCM

>>693329986
>yuri
>romance
if they're not abusing each other it's depression bait like madoka.

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>>693330097
well Isara and Velnya share one of the most abusive lesbian relationships I have ever seen so you may be pleased

>>693312645
Top is mostly a VN
Bottom is an actual game
Both are good in their own right though i’m not familiar with the HD version of Etrian Odyssey since I played the original long ago

>>693312645
get EO 3, there's no point playing the 1st and 2nd game. God I hope they ported the rest of the series soon.

>>693331446
Nah EO2 is cool especially now that the HD version fixed bugs

>>693331965
What were the bugs in 2? I mostly hear about immunize and whatever in 1

>>693334038
I think like half of Beast's moves were fucked in one way or another? The only ones I remember is their bodyguard move used the defenses of the person they were guarding instead of their own so they'd get shredded blocking for squishy characters and their roar move had 1% status increase per rank instead of 10%, I don't know if HD actually fixed either of those though.

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>>693312645
If you want the highest production value in any Bloober ever, play Wizardry Variants Daphne right now. It's free, it's a gacha, it's being so well received in Japan, it has ojisans throwing it money just because they loved how well it was done. Beware, the game is much, much harder than either of the options you want. There are multiple threads about it.

From your picks? Labyrinth for the story, it's almost a visual novel. Best world building, gorgeous monster design. Pick Etrian for the gameplay; the story could pretty much not exist, but everything mechanics wise is great. Best music thanks to Koshiro, but Daphne isn't behind with Sakimoto.

>>693335483
Based

>>693335483
>wizardry Daphne
>high production value
Lmao

>>693335483
>gachaslop is harder than EO3
try again

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>>693335483
Daphne is so good, it's so hard to go back to other bloobers. Being able to see your team and bond with them, chat with them, have drinks, camp, and have them open up to you changing their voicelines and animations it's a huge game changer. I can see it influencing the genre forever.

>>693335629
yeah? For a bloober? The entire genre? No other comes close.

>>693335691
yup, unironically.

>>693335483
the shills for this gacha goyslop are just pathetic

>>693335483
While it has some solid gameplay and the like, avoid this like the plague. It is riddled with bugs, can get hard locked out of your account, and every time they seem to "fix" something they break more shit. Also is easy as shit to lose your account if you don't save some account shit that isn't super obvious from the start.

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>>693335483
>high production values
>harder than Etrian Odyssey
>also is a gacha game

>>693312645
Ignore both and get Moero Chronicle isntead.

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>>693335770
yeah, it's really buggy, it's esoteric, it have a million hidden systems, it punish you for mistakes, it can lock you down, it can even paralyze your account in a game breaking bug

yet people still fucking LOVE IT. I have never seen a gacha this buggy being so much loved by japanese salary men. You can look it up at any time with those working men agonizing over their jobs chatting how much they want to play Wizardry. It's as hilarious as it is sad and awesome at the same time.

>>693335861
yup! Every single character have a 3D model, every single weapon have it's own set of animations with a critical slowmo unique to it. The environments are beautiful in a PS2 low poly aesthetic, the music is great with Sakimoto composing, the monster design specially is fantastic since it's made by none other than Katsuya Terada; an artist's artist. Character design is made by the Fire Emblem guy that I'm not a fan of, but several people are.

It's an actual videogame with gacha flavor in it, not the other way around.

>>693336134
>buy my child porn game

>>693336183
This game has to have Sakimotos worst work, you can really tell he phoned it in

>>693336187
It's on Playstation and Nintendo, I doubt they let those kinds of games in

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>>693335483
>gacha
>Bloober
no I don't think I will

>>693336183
I don't care if characters and weapons have models retard, it's a blobber no one gives a fuck about that and it's also not new, the PS2 Wizardry had it as well.

I barely had any bugs with wizardry aside from being kicked to the title screen a few times but then again I did start later
I was initially hesitant and outright hated the game before release but after trying it out it did the impossible and won me over, I've never been this hooked on a dungeon crawler ever

In terms of exploration and sense of wonder, etrian is very straightforward. There's not much to find, and most of the traversal is FOE avoidance.
Refrain on the other hand; finding the hidden bosses late game was pretty exciting, and the dungeons aren't boring to traverse because of wall break.

>693337517
Etrian iv had some cool exploration with the overworld

>>693337517
refrain's sequel galleria has some of the best dungeon exploring in any drpg. Like a genuine master class in design, but it's a shame what happened to the second act.

>>693334634
neither of those were changed. Beast is a good class stop believing a lets play and play the game for yourself

>>693338149
What happened? I vaguely recall people complaining on /v/

>>693315398
>The game rewards long, difficult dungeon skirmishes.
Every good DRPG does this without needing braindead autobattle combat.

>>693338846
randomly generated dungeon floors
3000 floor long dungeon with randomly generated dungeon floors

>>693338940
True

>>693312645
PLAY IV YOU FUCKING MONG
YOU WONT LIKE THE SERIES IF YOU START WITH 1 AND 2
3 IS LE OLD

PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4PLAY 4

>>693312645
lesbian games

>>693338149
>>693338984
ironically it's basically THE only genuinely in-universe and in-gameplay showcase of art
i have never seen a video game genuinely transcend normal vidya boundaries and actually become art like that before, especially in context, doubly so if you go without skipping floors and go one by fucking one

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>>693338846
nis went bankrupt halfway through dev with galleria and it came out with a half baked second half with randomized floors that was still amazing. we were robbed of what could've the greatest drpg ever because of disgaea 6. never forgive them.
also a randomized 3651 floor dungeon for the post game but that was story related and I really like what it represents as well as the game telling you to give up. it was great thematically but also way too excessive.

>>693339276
Don't forget about those one-off NPCs that show up for a bit that were clearly meant to be used elsewhere, but development had to be cut short.
The random floors were horrible, but at least we got this out of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-QE7hTQFKM

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>>693339648
>Forgot the name of the song.
>Open it.
>Listen for literally 3 seconds.
>Already took emotional damage.

>>693339180
When I got to the end and it was telling me to give up my sanity i thought it was being hyperbolic but no, it ended up being the most daring mixture of gameplay and narrative I have ever seen. I was thinking at the moment kojima would never. it was beautiful.

>>693321059
>Being able to save anywhere ruins any difficulty it might have
Yet it has notably difficult bosses and even trash mobs.
>No map drawing
Good
>shitty labyrinthine corridor design with no basis in reality
Good, I'm playing a video game, if I wanted realism I'd go outside
>Tedious one way door traps spammed so much
Not a problem
>it still somehow manages to feel like a cake walk
Post Tenerezza clear

Labyrinth of Galleria was one of the best experiences I've ever had in video games, even with the shortcomings
Nacho deserved better

>>693339789
>getting emotional from a fucking NIS game

you ok?retard?

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>>693339180
>>693339276
>>693339648
>>693339789
>>693339859
>>693340136
One last favor to have things finally end.
A final curtain call for the departed.
Eureka did her best, so did Nachi, now this is something only you can do.
After all, it's for the sake of an old friend.
The threat of 3651 years of suffering means nothing for a watcher beyond the shackles of time, does it?
Now go forth with your witch brigade for one last journey to the edge of eternity. Do what must be done, do whatever you want to do. Not because you were ordered to, but because you’re free to do as you wish.

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>>693339648
this is the best bgm tenpei has ever conceived
>>693339789
for me its https://youtu.be/t-VDge3yACc. Galleria using a piano motif throughout the game that never finished being revealed that it was Eureka trying and failing to play the song her mother taught her. Then right before the credits roll she shows nachi the song making the same mistake she made throughout the game saying she knew she couldn't do it then with eureka on the verge of tears nachi says she wasn't doing it wrong she just needed help, turning the piano motif into a duet for the end credits song. Genuinely the best emotional payoff I have seen in any game summarizing the relationship between the two while showing their growth. I cannot overstate how great the scene was. it brings me to tears every time.

>autistic retards getting emotional over a fucking NIS game

>>693340617
I love NIS games, I buy and play every single one including their "in-between" games they make when they're not doing a mainline game.

>>693339859
With all the elevators it wasn't that bad imo, once you figured out how to explore in there it didn't really take nearly as long as I expected. Just a few hours.

>>693340617
Come on now, Mad Rat Dead got a little emotional

>>693340617
>he's a soulless goylem
my condolences

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>>693312645
They're essentially diametrically opposed. Etrian Odyssey is an actual fun game with little story to motivate where as Labyrinth of Refrain / Galleria is lacking in the gameplay department and pretty much held up by their story. I love both games dearly but I have an easier time recommending Etrian Odyssey.

>>693312645
>Labyrinth of Refrain
Oh boy it's time to refer to my old post again.
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/689375105/#q689379148

Play EO. Refrain is dogshit in everything except story but even that is bogged down by being broken up with several hour breaks so you can watch your 15 characters take damage one at a time while you auto battle your way through terrible dungeons.

>>693336183
I'm playing Wizardry and I like it, you can definitely ignore any gacha/pay shit so far, but I'm not super confident in the devs honestly
I haven't run into something that bricked my account, but it has clearly happened to a lot of others, and not in ways you could just anticipate and avoid, but simpy by doing a certain quest or whatever
Also the currency gain, including events now, are pitifully low, even for a Japanese gacha, some later grinds like for tags will probably be utter cancer F2P
And difficulty is in a good spot, but I wouldn't call it harder than EO, even with no name shitters, the bosses so far aren't very complex yet, though the game has some really cool mechanics like making simply defending a really good option in some situations etc.
Overall like a 7/10 so far, good solid dungeon crawler, elevated by good atmosphere and better than usual presentation, dragged down by being a gacha with bugs

>>693341182
refrain is for the thinking man
EO is for the people afraid of wizardry

>>693340990
based and honest nigga of the forest

>>693315926
>People saying the game is an "autobattler" are being dishonest and are just using this as an insult (mostly rabid EO fans).
>dishonest
You hypocritical retard. The meta of Labyrinth games is autism grinding your puppets to the point that they can be the most efficient basic attackers possible. It's literally the meta that you strive to build your 15 characters around because it's the most powerful thing you can do. Shut the fuck up.

>>693341267
>thinking
>meta of the game literally revolves around mashing basic attack over and over
You're retarded.

>>693341539
>he used the dancer exploit

>>693341224
I'm convinced anyone who says Wizardry Daphne is harder than EO either has never played EO or even gotten to the boss of the first stratum in any game

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I still chuckle to myself like an insane retard every time I think of Very Clown

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>>693312645
Etrian 3 is the game that ruins other JRPGs for you because you feel treated like a retard in everything else. It also has a nice vibe to it and feels like an adventure without much dialog. Very hard, can be unfair.
Refrain is more story focused with ok gameplay. Its not very deep but party building is fun which makes it better than 90% of all other dungeon crawlers. Loot is mostly random with differen rarities. It is very dark and the world feels like a melancholic nightmare. It is a wild ride.
I think etrian 3 is a better game but refrain has more staying power to me because the story is very unique. Galleria even more so.
I do not recommend other etrians. Maybe untold 1&2 classic mode. Etrian 3 is a big standout.
Both games are easily pirateable and can be bought later. NIS and NISA need the money but the director left the company. So there is that.

>>693341182
Yeah you were pretty spot on. EO is the poster child of the genre

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>>693341819
do you think he holds the rights for the witch series? If they fucking do a hundred knight 2 with labyrinth 3 I think I'll lose it.

>>693341951
He absolutely does not hold the rights, companies do not work that way

>>693341951
Why would he?

I got to stratum 4 with EO3 emulating it and its pretty fun, its my first DRPG and seems to be more grindy then I expected but I enjoyed it alot so far.
Will probably pick up refrain now that you mention it being less than 10 bucks.

>>693321059
>No map drawing
Know how I know you are a fag and I can ignore everything else you will ever say?

>>693323095
Mystery Dungeon games are entirely "Rogue-like but Japanese!" so not so much ont he SRPG or DRPG.

>>693335483
I hate that the start of DRPGs is so dire that a shitty fucking gacha is still somehow the better ones released for a long time. You can still go suck a dick for playing a gacha and encouraging others to do so too though. It could be the best shit ever and I would still not even piss on you to put out a fire.

>>693342095
wait for it anon. time for rapy rapy is coming. not literally mind you.

>>693342095
The abyssal shrine is cool. I remember molten caves being a bitch but it felt so good to progress through it and clear it

>>693341951
There's no reason why he couldn't freelance direct for NIS.
and by god do I hope beyond hope (I don't actually hope, hope hurts too much when it becomes disappointment) that he does

>>693335483
KILL YOURSELF

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>>693312645
get an emulator and pirate this for free instead

>>693342049
he based his whole company on his old works I just want to have a little hope that we'll find out what happened to some characters.

>>693342390
Not bad but easily not as good as EO3

>>693341705
Recent shit has made me cynical to the point I wouldn't be surprised anyone praising that gachaslop are literal hired jeets.

>>693342310
I hope he finally gets a game where a third party doesn't fuckup his development financially

>>693342609
Unfortunately the suffering must extend to all parts of the game, including its development

>>693341819
>Etrian 3 is the game that ruins other JRPGs for you because you feel treated like a retard in everything else.
do you only play goysona and FF or something

>>693342390
not good but easily better than EO3

>>693342459
like the other anon said. there is a chance he will go the dragon quest horii way as in being an external corporation worrking for nis but i doubt it. cope anon. also have faith in him. he created a few mostly independent worlds with great stories.

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It will never not be absolutely hilarious that even when Eureka used a magical artifact to make her literally the smartest person in the world she was so naturally retarded that she was STILL a fucking retard
it's also tragically sad

>>693342671
No but that's how I felt when etrian 3 came out 13 years ago.

>>693321059
>Being able to save anywhere ruins any difficulty it might have
Unless you autistically save after every fight, this is not an issue.
Also, losing hours of progress because some random bullshit ambushed you and instakilled your party is not difficulty. You have not learned anything, you have not achieved anything, you have done nothing wrong and were punished for nothing, and now you have to do the exact same thing all over again praying that this time RNG does not fuck you over. Or make your dungeon visits painfully short so that when it inevitably does you don't lose too much this time.

>>693343007
Eureka a slut who has done “it” lots of times!

>>693343461
>tfw "that" scene
>haha but not really right
>... but not really, right?
>...
>...
>... right?

>>693343461
>>693343593
Imagine getting so attached to and emotional over the town bicycle

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>>693343007
I think it's more her trusting nature and kindness that makes her retarded in that situation, she thought the best of the reporter and wanted him and the maid to have a happy life, she had no reason to think that he was pulling a con cause we see with eureu that she does actually get somewhat smarter (debatable) and more jaded at some point and benefits greatly from it running the Illuminati.

Ok but really, why is Galleria so edgy? There were at least three times in the game that I remember thinking to myself it was just tormenting the characters for no particular reason. Is the author just into miseryporn?

>>693343997
living in france during the revolution fucking sucked.

>>693343997
>no particular reason
name 38257842378 times

>le edgy
>le miseryporn
shut the fuck up you mong

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>>693343997
I think the biggest hurdle to galleria and refrain is that they actually require critical thinking to understand the plot and why things are happening. as much as people love "show don't tell" they really need it.

>>693344269
JFC NIS faggots are unbearable

>>693344269
"they really need the show part" i mean, fuck.

>>693343997
It's legitimately misery porn done right if anything.
It does what westoid goyslop consistently fails to do: Make me give a fuck about the characters so I actually experience emotional pain alongside them.

>>693344324
the witch games are such a far departure from nis' typical story telling they hardly fall into the niche you try to categorize them in.

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>>693344324
Stay mad, Dood! Try dilating in Metaphor next time!

>>693344325
i understood what you meant tho
if anything the fact you needed to further specify just proves the point further

top is an autobattler
bottom is also an autobattler but with a map you can paint yourself to distract you from that fact

>>693339074
based

>>693344456
>bottom is also an autobattler
someone post the lynx webm, quick

>>693343997
Hundred knight and Refrain were like that too. Since they made three games like this it must be someone’s fetish or something.

>>693344687
no, post the guy who reposts it admitting it is bait and that the game is actually an autobattler

>>693344797
the only excessively edgy scene in these games that made me question them was in HK with the minotaur describing how he ripped the princess in half with his cock before killing her sister and wrapping her in a blanket to use her as an onahole later. that game was rated T by the way.

>calling EO an autobattler
Bait used to be believable

>>693344269
I don't mean "no reason" as in "I don't understand the motives of donkeyman", but rather that it is done largely just to fuck with the characters. Yeah, you need the timeskip to make Nachiroux old enough to become Marta for example, but specifically making her forget Pericot what, 4 times(?) seems like you're just having fun fucking with them.

>>693344903
Metallia might have been raped by that same minotaur in human form when she was captured btw.

>>693312645
pirate both

>>693344935
>s-sometimes you gotta use your skills on FOEs and Bosses

>>693344903
>that game was rated T by the way.
westoids only care about visuals, they are literally illiterate

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>>693344687
>>693344872
hello that's me. It's not bait because the game is an autobattler it's bait because I made the webm to post it as a counter point to the webm of cloud auto attacking that early boss and pretending the whole game is like that.

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How did they get away with all the rape, bestiality, genocide, homophobia, murderape, cannibalism,?

>>693344939
she had controlled ameneisa from Ceci and peri left for nearly 50+ years to look for eureka's diary

>>693345821
why the fuck did I spell amnesia like that fuck

>>693345881
I'm sorry, you have dxlyesia

>>693345816
By no one playing it
There isn't a single review of Galleria that played beyond the first act and I'm not exaggerating

>>693346159
Well what do you expect, it's a long fucking game and reviewers need to churn shit out asap if they want to get paid.

>>693345821
I just said I understood the motives in game, but the author chose to keep dunking constantly on the characters for a good 60-80 hours. Like I can't even blame Pericot for deciding to kill herself by the end of the game when her whole life has been shit and she's getting constantly abused and abandoned.

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>>693345793
>pretending the whole game is like that.
right, just the normal battle encounters, which is the large majority of the fights in the game

>>693346331
If you have something like a princess for passive healing and a bucc for quick shot/rapid fire spam sure you can probably have your other allies mostly auto attack. But that's going out of your way to make a party that's well suited for random encounters like that.

>>693346543
Until a crab (or any other phys resistant enemy) comes your way.

Snibeti Snab x--D

>>693312645
Pirate EO 3. Refrain is a legit good game and worth buying, but you do you.

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>>693341736
Heh

>EO is an autobattler
Do zoomers really

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>>693346616
I said mostly auto attack for a reason; there are exceptions. Just like there are enemies that you can slowroll by having the front guard while the princess regen goes off there are plenty of enemies that you want to shut down quickly like these sexy slimes.
it's almost like there's variety in the gameplay or something. Not so much in eo1/2 though.

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EO2 > EO1 > EO3

>>693347236
Retard

eo3 has an auto battle button so it’s technically correct.

>>693347236
funny..... BUT ITS WRONG

>>693347236
The contrarianism is really getting out of hand.

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Refrain is only good for its story but EOHD is highway robbery for a DS rerelease

>>693312645
Refrain for story. Etrian for gameplay.

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>>693347496
fukken poorfags

>>693330834
Another westoid who doesn't know what the fuck a vn is

>>693347496
Imagine being a third worlder and poor

Couldn't be me

>>693347236
based and same

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>>693347607
the "Coven and Labyrinth" games are totally a blend of being a VN and DRPG its half & half

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>>693347568
>>693347612
keep spending, atlus still isn't releasing next stage

>>693347607
The game literally is part vn speed shitposter and an autobattler to boot.

>>693347607
galleria is unironically in the top 50 vns on vndb.

>>693312645
labyrinth is a low effort weebshit slop like those vita "dungeon crawlers" that are all trash
you can just emulate etrian odyssey and not give sega fucking $60 for ds games in an emulator wrapper
so neither

>>693348597
Extremely annoying type of person

>>693348597
I don't get shitting on labyrinth when it has an extremely niche fanbase of people that like both drpgs and vns.

>>693348642
kys weeb and stop buying slop, you're half the reason why gaming went to the shitter

>>693348597
>ds games in an emulator wrapper
retard

>>693312645
EO if you want decent combat.

>>693348704
I don't get shilling of the labyrinth when those 3,5 people who are the extremely niche fanbase already bought it a long time ago, nobody else is buying it it's too much of a slop
>>693348728
prove how EOIII HD is objectively better than just the original game in a properly set up elumator

>>693348597
Extremely logical and sound person

>>693348920
>goalpost moved immediately
i accept your concession

>>693348920
galleria came out last year. this is the last response you will get shitposter-kun. I know your taste is bad and I will not engage further.

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Refrain is good and cute, etrian is fun and challenging. I am horny for yuri so refrain is my choice.

>>693349029
>know your taste is bad
>defends an autobattler vn larping as drpg
now this is ebin

>>693338940
When was it claimed that the combat needed to be as it is in order for the game to reward long, difficult dungeon skirmishes? It wasn't.
But it's not the combat. But rather the system that progressively raises difficulty and drop rewards the longer you stay in the dungeon. Most DRPGs don't actually have a system like that.
And if you autobattle when the stakes are raised high, you will just lose progress because braindead autobattling does not succeed.

I’ve heard the EO series gets progressively easier later down the series and after playing 1-3 I can kind of see it. I do appreciate the QoL added but if it gets to a certain point where everything just ends up too easy it may not be enjoyable because the games in my opinion should remain hard just for the fun of it.

>>693350709
that's bullshit

3 is reasonably hard, 4 is easier, untold 1 is real hard, untold 2 is decently hard, 5 is hard, nexus is hard up front but not difficult by the end

and this is all assuming you run really competent parties

>>693349898
Boobnya

>>693316924
>have to contend with a shit 60 item limit.
The games would be so much better without this.

>>693350784
>nexus is hard up front but not difficult by the end
wrong
nexus is piss easy early but the end is pure cancer, the princess alone is the most cancerous thing in entire franchise and it's not even a superboss

>>693351105
>the princess
Funny how a superboss is easier to cheese than to fight normally.

>>693312645
Etrian games are rather basic dungeon crawlers but they're well made and super relaxing.
I only played second Refrain game but in terms of mechanics it's overly complicated and weird on purpose in a largely superflouos way - the floors have schizophrenic design where you need to break walls, cast overworld spells to reveal hidden doors, the characters have billions of useless passives and modifiers but the combat is borderline an autobattler.
I hated it but I guess it has some appeal to people who play shitloads of dungeon crawlers due to how different it is, I wouldn't recommend it to start with though.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/409890/Stranger_of_Sword_City/
Anyone played this? is it any good?

>>693351782
Haven't played it but it's shit.

>>693351782
>Experience Inc.
Automatically means it's shit, maybe mediocre at best.

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>>693351782
set up a decent party and autobattle to victory, mostly
if you've played any other Experience DRPGs they're all extremely similar in design and mechanics
I like them for what they are at any rate, not as good as Etrian, not nearly as bad as some of Compile's DRPGs
but if you do buy it you should probably get the Revisited version that comes with Sapphire Wings, I forget what changed

>>693351782
4 bucks right now?
if you enjoy dungeon crawlers yeah go for it, i put over 100 hours into it grinding my party into gods. also the music is good.
dont expect any crazy mechanical depth though.

>>693351782
If it's not EO or Grimrock it's shit, especially if it's an anime game.

>>693354197
>If it's not EO or Grimrock it's shit
ask me how i know you haven't played any other drpgs

>>693354197
grimrock is a puzzle game not a dungeon crawler

>>693354569
i tried to play all the anime shit you shills love to push and it was all fucking awful

>>693312645
My heart feels so heavy talking about the Labyrinth games because there are girls actually being raped left and right.
Gameplay is mid tho, not bad, not great. Just middle, a sweet spot.

>>693351203
>the characters have billions of useless passives and modifiers but the combat is borderline an autobattler.
Because it's a NIS game. As I already stated all the team building options and customization are just an illusion. They don't exist for you to make choices. They exist for you to autism grind and build toward the perfect party of auto battling powerhouses who will basic attack everything into submission.

>>693355015
>left and right
Don't exaggerate. It only happens like a couple of times.

>>693355056
But physical attackers are infinitely inferior to the Donum user master race.

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Dronya LOVE!

>>693355009
>i tried to play all the anime shit
why would you just go on the internet and lie

how much yuri is there in refrain? I started but didn't like the nun so I dropped it pretty early on. Should I pick it back up?

>>693355410
It exists purely as a joke and as a reason for Dronya to get the literal shit beaten out of her

>>693355543
i see. thank you. I may pick it up again sometime then
>ryona
nice

Nobody would even know the labyrinth exists if it wasn't made by the edgy games team

>>693355410
don't listen to the other guy, the relationship is literally why the game happens. the whole thing is about the main character trying to reunite with her lover.

>>693341182
I super love EO. But still think you're a little bitch for disparaging all those other DRPGs.

>>693356686
Because you're a retard with nearly non-existent standards. They're garbage. If they were better I wouldn't be talking about how shit they are. It's inexcusable for so many of these copy/pasted games to be so fucking bad when EO demonstrated what the floor should be nearly two decades ago.

I wonder how many people are huge fans of both games. I am, no doubt.
But it seems like a lot of fans of one are less than stellar on the other. I wonder how come. They're different, sure, but I feel like the fundamental appeal of dungeon crawling is strong in both.

>>693356860
Sorry, but Labyrinth of Touhou completely destroys EO. Not that your casual ass would know anything about it.

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Ok. Ok. The games in the OP are great, or terrible, whatever. Whatever.
BUT. Is EO:Next actually going to be real this coming console gen?

Surely the Origins collection was a prototype for actually developing EO:Next, right?
And the only reason we don't already have it is because they want to be a Switch 2 launch title or something, right? Right?

>>693356860
Demon Gaze is really fun though. Team Building is pretty complex thanks to its Wizardry roots. And those monster nests where you fight waves of enemies and elite monsters for high tier loot is very satisfying risk and reward challenges all throughout the dungeons.

>>693355079
once on screen, the other multiple times off screen.
that's more than I could handle.

>>693357097
haha... yeah...

>>693357241
>that's more than I could handle.
pussy

>>693356996
Labyrinth of Touhou is okay for the most part, definitely better than the mountain of garbage the frequently gets recommended, but it loses points for forcing you to play by the game's rules. That's always a negative for games which are supposed to be about freedom in party building and customization. It becomes less about the party you've built and more like a puzzle game where you're trying to figure out what kind of approach the developers have limited you to.
>>693357217
Is Demon Gaze any different from Demon Gaze Extra? Because I've dumped 40 hours into that and it's yet another auto battle shitfest where you slog through meaningless dungeons full of meaningless battles and in the very best case scenario you may have to think once every few turns against bosses assuming you're playing on one of the highest difficulties.

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Btw OP here, I ended up getting Refrain. The deciding factor was interest in the story based on it's adjacency to WatHK, and the price

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>>693312645
>It's payday for me tomorrow
It's PAYDAY every single day of the week

>>693357440
based
stick with it and let the suffering wash over you

>>693357367
There is freedom in party building and customization, and a lot more of it than there is in EO. Having to adjust your party every now and then to better fit the boss/level is much more interesting, especially with how easy it is to do that and try out different builds, than cruising through the game with a single god meta party like you do in EO. And it's never limited to just a single solution, the character variety and possible build options are high enough to always be able to choose how you approach the challenge in question.

>>693357367
>and it's yet another auto battle shitfest
If you auto battle the summoning circles, elite enemies, or bosses, you'll absolutely fucking die or needlessly waste hp/resources or miss out on great loot opportunities.
What a moronic statement.

>>693357367
The only mildly "worthwhile" exp inc game is Stranger of Sword City. Everything else from them is irredeemable garbage.

>>693357440
I hope you enjoy the game! Refrain is honestly great. Don't let haters discourage you.
You should still try EO3 in the future though. That game is no doubt a gem. They're splendid games.

Have fun dungeon crawling!

>>693357324
yes, i love pussy! as long as you pierce it with consent.

>>693345793
How does a webm of a party dying to auto battling, suggest that the game is an auto battler?