>>719441443
Games that focus on story are all hogshit

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>Still no release date for Tarnished edition
I just want those cool ass pants from NotLucatiel's set...

Pro captu lectoris habent sua fata libelli

But bro, Martin...

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For me, it's the Heavy Knight

Viewers want something to talk about.

>>719441443
Bump

>>719442569
Based
Can't wait for his set.

Just beat the shit out of Rykard. First playthrough, so I just used the serpent-killer sword in his area and killed him first shot. Really loving this game. Most every death genuinely feels like it's all my fault.
Sacred Katana and the Brass shield is my main loadout, but I'll switch to bows when I wanna do ranged or the Magma Wyrm Scalesword when fighting those stumps or wood worm monstrosities.
Ranni best wife, but Sellen is ballin'

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>>719446680
Cool, anon. Glad you're liking it.

>>719441443
>they realize that lore/story is an afterthought
prove it.

>>719446680
There are some supreme dogshit lategame bosses and enemies like Maliketh that exemplify everything wrong with modern Fromsoft boss design, but for the most part the game is nice.

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Who rustled your jimmies most?

>>719447959
Fucker on the right with all the limbs
>Hurr just use a healing spell
I don't have faith skills on and even if I did, those have a cast animation. In that time he can just close the distance and stunlock you before you get half a second into the animation.

I've been using a shortbow most of the game, but just switched to using a greatbow (giant's colossal one) and holy fuck is it a vast improvement. Even the load time isn't too bad, since you're gonna knock your enemy on their ass anyways. Crossbows suck total dick though. Why are they so disappointing every game they're in?

>>719448931
They're good for casters that usually don't invest much into str and dex thus can't make much use out of ordinary bows

>>719447736
Maliketh is fine.
You're basically fighting a ninja.
He dies in just a few hits, but can nuke you if you fuck up.
Its a good balanced rush of a fight.

>>719441443
>they realize that lore/story is an afterthought for fromsoftware right?
It really isn't. Elden Ring particularly was meticulously constructed with a lot of thought going into it.

lore and world building is joke in these games

>>719447959
Rune Bears are just fucking annoying.
Fuck all for drops despite their name, and they're super tanky.
Revenants are the hardest in the image, but at least they die fast.
But I will say the biggest moment of sheer panic I had in this game was one of the Haligtree Revenants teleporting up to a higher level to chase me. I had no idea their teleport let them move in the Y axis like that, and it gave me horror game tier panic.

Mariam is pure ludokino.
Best NPC fight in the series.

>>719441443
They hired one of the most prolific smut authors of our generation. I'm sure they gave it a little thought

>>719451063
I love that GRRM has no fucking idea what the story is either.

Well they viewers are all retarded anyway so it doesnt matter.

>>719451153
Iirc he didn't even write the story, just game up with a bunch of epic OC donut steals, and From made them all depressed and/or molesters

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Why is she so perfect?

>>719446969
kek

yeah this one felt weird, I liked dark souls 1 and 2 story, 3 felt like they just got lazy and I'm conviced elden ring was actually written by ai, it's not even the lore itself more that there is no coherent story, no goal no nothing. you could probably say the same for dark souls 2 but there i somehow felt more compelled to press forward because the locations were pretty (most of them at least) and very unique,
in elden ring it's just very boring and I feel no reason to fight most enemies or explore the map, I don't even know how to explain why the game doesn't work for me and maybe that's part of the problem

>>719441443
It's not, you're just stupid.

>>719454713
Elden Ring has an extremely straight forward story.
>I don't even know how to explain why the game doesn't work for me
I do: you are fucking stupid.

Elden Ring is slop for brainless cattle.

>>719441443
>>719452032
Engagement-farming bot.

>>719455217
>Lore is told haphazardly through item descriptions the tarnished shouldn't know anything about
>DLC sings the theme of the encounter for you in case you didn't get it
Very wow. Much deep

>>719447959
None
>fingers
Just poise through their attacks
>runebear
Just imagine its fat cock bulging in your gut when it grabs you
>screeching autist
Just poise through it
>birds
One tap
>dogs
One tap
>cheeky dick mage
Clap
>scarlet rot & deathblight
Im a necrophiliac and a masochist death just makes me stronger

Easy game

>>719455978
The story is told to you directly through dialogue. If you want to dig into setting details, you can, and it all makes sense, but that's not the plot.

>>719456368
Why should I become Elden lord?

>>719457248
The blurb on the Steam page/back of the box said so.

>>719457248
The tarnished wants to be king and it's why he came back in the first place. You can somewhat inform his philosophy through quest choices and picking an ending, but the overriding motivation is ambition.

>>719450804
NTA but Maliketh is horse shit. It may be easy because he doesn't have a lot of health but if you actually engage with his moveset you see how garbage it actually is

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>>719441443
Why did this bitch turned into a ball? I went to the troble to save her, killed a real bro because of her and she turned into a ball?

>>719447959
Those grafted motherfuckers and their ass rapist cousins that show up in swamps.

>>719448193
Healing spell doesn't on the regular scions. Just the teleporting ones.

>>719457557
she's serving some unknowable cosmic rocks or something, they just like doing that to sorcerers

>>719451153
>>719452329
GRRM came up with the world as it was thousands of years before the game.
I'm afraid making everyone crazy molestors was entirely his choice.

>>719451153
He just gave them permission to use Game of Throne's likeness.

>>719458013
That's fucked up. Jiren was right, I should've killed her.

>>719441443
The lore/story for Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 2 and 3 were an afterthought. Dark Souls 1, Bloodborne, and Elden Ring all have very clear stories and sequences of events that lay out what led to the state their respective settings are in, a large portion of the storytelling is just done through text and environmental inferences, which the average live service slop player is literally incapable of comprehending, so they've been going on /v/ for literally 15 fucking years now and making threads like these where they can shitpost about how none of the games have stories

>>719450856
Yes but midwits need to cope

>>719457557
Are you retarded? Can you actually read?
Elden Rong just filters brownoid favela monkeys like crazy

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>>719447959
>durr I see you got my energy down to half. It would be a shame if I did an impossible to escape AoE explosion. Hopefully youre at full health to tank it!

>>719458373
Read what? I skipped most of the dialogue.

>>719458561
>The primeval current is a forbidden tradition of glintstone sorcery. To those who cleave to its teachings, the act of collecting sorcerers to fashion them into the seeds of stars is but another path of scientific inquiry.

>>719441443
I kinda get them thought, this game is pretty much unplayable without the easy mod from Nexus for the average non-autists, and the easy mod makes the game trivial enough that in the end, there isn't really much else to discuss other than lore.

>>719452487
I want to steal her hat

>>719457534
I was disappointed with him, everyone kept saying he was fast as fuck and super hard and had stupid combos and when i get to him he is basically moving underwater with how slow he is.

Fucking gurranq phase feels faster.

>>719441443
>they realize that lore/story is an afterthought for fromsoftware right?
Yes but they get dem views
So no one will acknowledge it

>>719459087
In english?

>>719459087
que

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>>719452487
>forces you to ride the same long as fuck elevators hundreds of times
Fml

>>719441443
They do and they don’t care.
All they care about is the fucking money.
If lore slop videos stop making money, they’ll stop making them.

>>719441443
>Even in the arcane towers of Naverin, to beseige such knowledge is but forbidden, masters of time when the tarnished weren't but a glint of stone.

>>719454713
The difference is that Dark Souls has a very direct impetus that carries through the game of dealing with being undead and venturing to do something about it on a personal level and thing getting wrapped up in bigger things.
ER is a game where the inherent buy in is that your PC wants to become the elden lord and is the doesn't hit then the rest of the game falls flat. Since all of the revelations and new concepts are built upon that backbone.
So if "kill lords for greatrunes, Become Elden Lord" as a goal doesn't click for you in the game way "Your Undead Deal with it" does then you have no urge to pay attnetion.

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>>719441443
It is not an afterthought when you base your trailer on lore aspects first.
It is important to not fuck it up, but they did.
The DLC is non-canon.

>>719461723
I wouldn't be surprised if a version of the Hornsent and the Deeplore existed in the lore bible, but we know for a fact thanks to cut content that everything to do with Miquela was made just for the DLC.

>>719450856
>Elden Ring particularly was meticulously constructed with a lot of thought going into it.
Lol, no.
The game has its lore changed so often and haphazardly that entire races have their identities changed on the fly.
If you play version 1.0 then the Nox are called Empyreans. Which changes a huge part of the lore. This is overwritten in the day 1 patch.
If you play the first release of the DLC, the Hornsent were called Empyreans, again, a huge change to the lore from what the later patches changed things to say.

Things like that random misbegotten in the snowfields having the golden order greatsword is because Radagon was originally meant to be a heretical scientist type of monarch who created the misbeggoten race, until he was turned into a dogmatist who'd never make something opposed to the golden order like that. That entire personality was cut, but changing the assets to reflect that was apparently too much effort.

>>719447959
The fucking royal. Revenant.. Burn in hell

>>719457557
Basically she wanted to turn into another Azur or Lusat, or even something better, but got stuck as a wizard ball on accident. Probably by trying to absorb their power. So now all 3 are mashed together into a giant homunculus.
This being ironic, because in the past she used to experiment with turning wizards into wizard balls on purpose. Sellen conducted human experiments to figure out how the magic system worked, and most wizard balls you find around the world are her fault.

Are there any worthwhile mods for this game

>>719464245
Did you play it in Japanese?

>>719467159
I hear convergence is decent

>>719458218
>Jiren
Anon, you just invited /dbs/cholars into this thread.

>>719464245
>If you play version 1.0 then the Nox are called Empyreans.
Clearly a mistake, hence it was fixed.

>the Hornsent were called Empyreans
Weird how the same mistake happened twice, but it did. This is also clearly a mistake.

>Radagon was originally meant to be a heretical scientist type
Heresy is merely a contrivance, all things can be conjoined.

>who created the misbeggoten race
they have red hair for a reason, anon.

>he was turned into a dogmatist who'd never make something opposed to the golden order like that
What makes you think that the Misbegotten go against the Golden Order? Do you not understand what the Golden Order is?

Besides, this statement is still in the exact same place in 1.0:
>O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self.
What is Marika saying, if not that Radagon is a radical follower of the Golden Order, when she calls him a leal hound?

And even if he did change, there are three distinct parts to Radagon's life. The part where he was married to Rennala, the part where he is married to Marika and the part where he IS Marika.

>>719464245
None of those are true btw

>>719441443
>they realize that lore/story is an afterthought for fromsoftware right?
So? Even if that was the case how does that prevent someone from engaging with the game from a lore angle if that's what they like about the game? Regardless of whether the lore is actual thought out or an afterthoguht, they obviously designed it to provoke the player's imagination and let them play around and come up with ideas in the lore. They give you all the bits to come up with plausible theories and fill in the gaps, not unlike real history. That's supposed to be the fun of it. Like coming into a room and there's a bunch of dead bodies. And maybe you can tell something about where they lay, and the type of armor they wear, and maybe any items they have on them. But the game doesn't outright state what happens, but it gives you enough to imagine what probably happened.

>>719464245
That's not true at all

Radagon is kin to Misbegotten because he is larval tear imbued with primordial amber. 1.0 only confirms that Radagon was embracing Miquella and Malenia in the statue in Loretta's arena, and Loretta is leading the Albinaurics for the rebirth in the cocoons of the Haligtree under Radagon's command.

Only the Hornsent Grandam was called Hornsent Empyrean, and that is correct because she is the ex-Grandam of Marika, a maiden that uses invocations to ascend Divine Lions, Hornsent Warriors, or in this case Marika. That is why Marika's betrayal is doubly personal for her

The Nox maidens are Empyreans because the Nox are Numen. The Eternal Cities created 3 Moons by ascending such Empyreans

The lore of these games never change, only retards who can't understand it pretend it does.

>>719469168
You sure have a vivid imagination.

>>719467827
I forgot his name. It's something like that.

>>719465795
Ok so she's the bad guy. They gave the bad guy the best rewards. Why Fromsoftware like this?

>>719470339
No. All of it is easily confirmed, but the game filters low iq mongoloids like you
>>719465795
Retard

>>719471182
>All of it is easily confirmed, but the game filters low iq mongoloids like you
which shitty lore youtuber did you get this from

>>719469168
>The Eternal Cities created 3 Moons by ascending such Empyreans
whi is there no moon in their false sky?

>>719441443
>lore/story is an afterthought
It's more like 60% of the lore was thought out and planned in advance, allowing the devs to create the game around it, and the other 40% is made of retcons, rewrites and last minute fixes after content ended up on the cutting room floor
And it's hard to discern what fits in either box

>>719448193
>>719457847
the real issue with the healing strat is that it opens them up for a risposte but the end-lag on the casting animation is too long for you to trigger a critical attack in time unless you happen to stun it right in front of you

>>719471895
Because they were taken away, inherited by Rennala and Ranni or lost
>>719472109
There's no retcons, midwit
>>719471837
>t. Low IQ retard

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>>719472409
>There's no retcons
LMAO
Imagine believing this

>>719472467
There's no retcons, but I know your IQ is too low to post anything but shitposts

>>719472764
keep dreaming boy, I'm sure as long as you keep a blindfold on miyazaki will personally come in your sleep to suck you offf

>>719472952
There's zero retcons
These stories are very deliberately explained and clear even if they make midwits like you mad because you can't understand them

>>719457534
I'va avoided so many of his sword swings just by walking to the side, he's very precise.

>>719468237
>Misbegotten go against the Golden Order?
Misbegotten communed with the Crucible. That is why they're all half animal.
Which the game is clear is considered a bad thing by the Golden Order. Omen, Crucible Knights, Messmer's knights, Misbegotten, Hornsent, etc.
That is why they were enslaved. It was punishment for their allegiance to another power rather than the Erdtree.

Radagon was shifted out of being a heretic to the Golden Order pre1.0, unlike the changes to the Nox. Who still have things like being called the children of Marika in 1.0's descriptions.
The Misbegotten are known as, "Radagon's Children" in the game code. This was abandoned before 1.0, but close to release, hence the Lion Misbegotten still carrying his sword in a place that doesn't make much sense, in a way that doesn't make much sense.

>>719473268
Radagon wasn't shifted to anything you stupid faggot. Radagon is connected to the Crucible and has the appearance of a mimicry of giants, with red hairs, because he was born from primordial amber imbued in a larval tear through the Rune of the Unborn
>doesn't make much sense.
The only thing that doesn't make sense is you managing to type and breathe at the same time despite your limited intellectual faculties

>>719473268
they are still called "Radagon's chimera" in the 1.00 version I think

>>719469168
>Radagon is kin to Misbegotten because he is larval tear imbued with primordial amber.
There's no reason for this because we know that Empyreans can just split themselves apart.
Loretta didn't even have an association with Albinuarics in 1.0, so the connection there really didn't exist. She was given the link to the Albinaurics as the link to Radagon was cut out. The reason why she was in the Haligtree was swapped. Radagon's influence was cut, and her justification was moved to being saving the Albinaurics.
There's no place for both to be true.

If the Grandam was an Empyrean in the way that the DLC eventually panned out post-release, there'd never be a reason for the Hornsent to grab a shaman girl for the job of becoming a God.
If the Hornsent were capable of making/getting their own Empyreans from their own society, they wouldn't have organized so much around hunting down numen shamans and chopping them up and shoving them in jars trying to make a saint.
The Grandam or another like her, would have become a Goddess while Marika was still a village girl in the middle of nowhere.
Her being called an Empyrean is an artifact of an abandoned plotline and interpretation of how someone gets Godhood that we can only speculate on.

Not all Nox are Numen after release date.
That is obvious, because the Nox also heavily influenced the Carians, and possibly it goes as far as the Carians being descended from the Nox, and the Carians aren't numen. The swap from 1.0 was moving the connection of the Nox from Marika's sphere to Caria's sphere.
Some Nox were Numen, who'd go onto become the Black Knife Assassins that continued their hunt for the Gods, following what the Nox did in the past with the Fingerslayer blade.
Just like only some of the people in the Lands Between are Numen. They exist within larger populations as those with special abilities.

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we were robbed

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Radagon and Marika were 2 different people forced to merge to keep Marika in check
any other theory is schizo rambling

>>719473572
Radagon has no link to the Crucible by the time of release.
He takes the role of the loyalist to the Golden Order to counter Marika's disloyalty. This dynamic is probably why Radagon's connection to the Misbegotten was cut, because it is a much stronger dynamic than Marika and Radagon both hating the Golden Order in different directions.
Radagon having red hair as part of the curse of the Giants, doesn't mean that he's still associated with the Crucible. That curse just probably why we have Messmer and Melina being who they are, Messmer being born with a flame that could burn the Erdtree and Melina being born with a desire to hunt down and kill the Gods. They inherited the Giant's desires, that being the primary curse. Radagon getting marked with red hair is just a secondary effect.
The Giants in general lack a significant link to the Crucible. Their forge isn't the same as the conceptual Crucible of all life.

>>719474097
sex hair

>>719442569
what is this?

>>719472467
These are so weird.
Like in the base game, they're obviously Rykard's hands that he's chopping off and sending out as agents or which escape to hunt shit down on their own, feral like.
But then the DLC invents this idea that they're literally just born that way, weird bloody stump and all, by a space alien mother god.

>>719458514
the fact that they put like 30 of these in the game was downright criminal. absolute dogshit design

>>719474097
Its funny that the only way to actually start to get a good personality out of Melina is to do the Frenzied Flame quest so that she'll actually start expressing opinions and beliefs.
Why the hell they hid all that, rather than making it a big part of her over the course of the game, is literally inexplicable. Just like how they don't have her summoned every time you visit a site of Grace, when that on its own would make her way more endearing.

theyve been riding the zanzibart storytelling wave since 2009. i cant believe you people arent bored of this chatgpt tier shit. literally just open a book of medieval terms and randomly pick 8 words and then base all your lore on it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjSQfinxy2Y

>>719472409
>they were taken away, inherited by Rennala and Ranni or lost
What is the false night sky in the first place, anon.

>>719473268
>being a heretic to the Golden Order
HERESY IS MERELY A CONTRIVANCE
ALL THINGS CAN BE CONJOINED

>>719441443
>it's an afterthought, so you can't talk about it

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>>719474045
>There's no reason for this because we know that Empyreans can just split themselves apart.
No they can't. In fact Marika was not a true Goddess and she created Radagon with the exact purpose of merging with him
>Loretta didn't even have an association with Albinuarics in 1.0,
Yes she did, by being one
>If the Grandam was an Empyrean
She wasn't an Empyrean, retard. She was the Empyrean Grandam, using invocation powers to help Marika ascend and claim the power of Grace
>Not all Nox are Numen after release date
They never were you COLOSSAL RETARD. The line specifically called Nox royalty and related to the Empyrean family, a reference to the Gloam Eyed Queen. The Nox Monk armor shares the same chestplate details as Maliketh and Messmer armor chestplate because before Marika and the downfall of the Eternal City of Leyndell, the legitimate queen and true goddess was the Gloam Eyes Queen, and the Abductor Virgins are constructs modeled after the Gloam Eyed Queen seeking for sacrificies, which is why they portray am elegant maiden holding a baby.
>>719474097
No we weren't, and Melina is not the Gloam Eyed Queen, midwit
>>719474287
>Radagon has no link to the Crucible
Yes he does
>Radagon having red hair as part of the curse of the Giants
There's no curse of the Giants, he shares the heritage of Primordial Giants because Marika created him through primordial amber

>>719446680
>I cheated with the serpent-killer sword
FTFY
You didn't beat him
>>719469168
>he is larval tear imbued with primordial amber
Retarded cut content tranny. You do realize that cut content isn't canon? Literal fucking retard.
>>719475087
>Melina is not the Gloam Eyed Queen
Holy fucking filtered

>>719472467
Its almost as if they are a imitation. Two Fingers has no nails.

>>719474974
No one cares about you you stupid turtle, stay in the cuck church.

>>719441443
idk, i dont think they would have paid george rr martin if it was an after thought. The issue is that fromsoft trims too much out

Elden Ring lore threads are fasconating, because people will so confidently scream out their opinion (that they didn't even comr up with themselves), while calling everyone else retarded. It's also fascinating how people get caught up in completely inconsequential details, while ignoring what actually happens in Elden Ring.

...Which is why they get so much mileage, ad revenue and partnership money off their 6-hour headcanon diatribes. They rake in hundreds of thousands of viewers by waffling on about speculation.

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>>719447959
Preceptor mirriam on launch patch by far. Dont know how many people remember that though

They nerfed that fight a little too much in my opinion

>>719447959
There are two types of bears in this game, from what I've played. Small real life world bears and the large variant bears, giga bears. The giga bears don't die, ever. I've beaten one-time-enemies that don't respawn which were easier than the respawning giga bears in Elden Ring. WTF?

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>>719474926
The crystallized souls of inhabitants of the Eternal City, which would then be guided by their Moon, an accumulation of those souls ascending through a new form together through empty body vessels of maidens with that specific role. The Royalty that carries the Moon also carries Fate of all inhabitants of the Eternal City with her
>>719475267
>You do realize that cut content isn't canon?
Correct, and none of what I said is cut content. Radagon is a larval tear that literally hands the Rune that birthed him to Rennala, you actual cocksucking retard
>Holy fucking filtered
You are nothing but a faggot redditor. Not only there's no evidence that Melina is the Gloam Eyed Queen. It's actively debunked by the game showing the cellar where Melina lives her whole life before being brought back by Grace to serve as Death Maiden. But you are a faggot retard with zero awareness and the IQ of a monkey, so you can't even ask yourself why Melina is now acknowledged by anyone in the Lands Between or why it has zero relation with everything that surrounds the actual Gloam Eyed Queen.
Subhuman

>>719475651
who do asians love large inflated numbers floating around on the screen so much?

>>719475878
You got raped. I proved you were a cut content tranny and now you go on a massive double down spergout. Everyone serious about the lore knows that Melina is the GEQ and Radagon is Marika's other half, not a retarded fantasy that you cooked up from cut content. You'd get laughed out of any serious lore circles in a heartbeat. You proven yourself to be extraordinarily retarded and should stop shitting up the thread.

>>719474467
>Like in the base game, they're obviously Rykard's hands that he's chopping off and sending out as agents
Rykard's hands have a completely different colour and have only seven fingers that grow in a regular hand pattern, the only similarity is that they both have rings but none of the Fingercreepers have rings associated with Rykard, something you can check by looking at the Ringed Finger weapon which IS a finger chopped off some of Rykard's hands.
There's also the fact that Fingercreepers are ridiculously weak to fire while Rykard literally bathes in magma so they couldn't have been related to him, in fact you can find Fingercreepers near both Ranni's and Rykard's neetcaves but not INSIDE of them because they're both sworn enemies of the Two Fingers, which are offsprings of Metyr to begin with, to top it all off the Fingercreeper can use the same constriction magic of the lampreys, something Rykard does not use.

>>719472251
I don't have that problem because I play a faith build. Im fast at casting and the thing dies in 2 hits.

whats the best non-anime tier weapon in the game? any realistic cool weapons actually viable in this?

>>719474582
It's specially aggravating inside small rooms. It flies all over the place.

>>719476281
You'll be hard pressed to not find a viable weapon in this game, both the Claymore and the Zwei are already as good as ever, if a Lordsworn Straight Sword or a Cleanrot Knight's sword are too " "anime" for you I don't know what to tell you

>>719476251
Lampreys didn’t exist in the base game, and the ringed finger was explicitly stated in the 1.00 description to have been from an ancestor of the fingercreepers. The fingercreepers were unambiguously Rykard’s spawn prior to the rewrites and DLC.

>>719476281
I was so mad when I saw that they turned the Butchering Knife into Ichigo's sword. It completelly ruins the design.

>>719476417
alright sweet. i havent played a souls game since dark souls 2 which was such dogshit and want to try elden ring with my brother. its just that every time ive seen shit from elden ring its just crazy anime bullshit where you jump around and do stupid shit, which i cant stand. just wanna feel like a scrappy lil guy like i did in DeS and DS1

>>719476453
The ancestor line is still in the final version, so the DLC is even more blatantly a retcon. Like all the Nox/black knife stuff being shunted to the side in favor of Marika being a hippie miko instead.

>>719476575
That's because you might be seeing clips from Nightrein. A completelly different game.
The base game is much slower. It's also getting a new dlc.

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>>719476196
>Melina is the GEQ
Headcanon
>Radagon is Marika's other half,
Wrong

>>719476768
finkle is einhorn
einhorn is finkle

>>719476251
>Ringed Finger
> Bludgeon made of an enormous finger sheathed in several heavy rings. Thought to have been cut from an ancestor of the Fingercreeper.
This is literally evidence in favor of the Rykard origin being the initial plan.

>>719475087
>No they can't.
Miquella and Malenia both do this.
St. Trina and the Rot Buds.
It is just a thing that Empyreans can do in the world. Probably downstream of Numen being said to have malleable flesh, in this case their god powers giving them the ability to split apart and recombine.

Loretta isn't called an Albinauric in 1.0 in any place that I've seen.
If you have more info, feel free to share.
Her link was created to justify her existence in the Haligtree after Radagon's order was removed for whatever reason.

Are you claiming that the Hornsent Grandam was Marika's Grandam, or was there another Empyrean that she was the Grandam of?
Or do you see Empyrean Grandam as a professional role, with the job of helping whatever Empyrean was around become a God?
Either way, the Hornsent weren't able to produce a native Empyrean.

>armor looks similar
This doesn't mean much at all.
Most of the game's armors fall into a few similar patterns and stock shapes.
Things like the Abductor Virgins are just based in real life Iron Maidens.

The Nox were descendants of Marika in 1.0, what this means isn't very clear on its own. But they were also called Empyreans.
So ostensibly they were the children of some of her chosen demigod children who rebelled against the Two Fingers and had they and their followers locked away underground. This being the simplest explanation.
The Gloam Eyed Queen here doesn't fit no matter what, because there's no association with her fire seen anywhere, and the GEQ isn't associated with astrology either. This is possibly why the game cut this, because having two separate lineages of rebellious Empyrean lines would result in crossed streams unnecessarily. Instead, the Nox became their own independent civilization with influence on the later Carians, and the GEQ became the center of the 'rebel against the Gods and Fingers' role.

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>>719476453
>and the ringed finger was explicitly stated in the 1.00 description to have been from an ancestor of the fingercreepers
Yes, we know. It's Metyr, that has a gaping wound on her right shoulder the Ringed Finger was severed.
These games never change lore. They have a very defined story that is unaffected through development short of Miyazaki himself deciding against some questlines or specifically scrapping some info for the DLC to make it less blatant

>>719475878
If you see a woman who has a gloam colored eye, and who talks about destined death all the time, supports the player in hunting gods and wants to burn the erdtree, who is also royalty and the daughter of a goddess, and walks around as a ghost, who do you think she is?
Is she a.) Melina, b.) the Gloam Eyed Queen, c.) all of the above?

Can we talk about how fromsoftware has managed to create THE most cocksucking bootlicking fanbase in all of history? The radahn debacle is still funny as fuck, once something leaks, and there is no "this made by from software" stamp people show their real actual opinions and holy these retards were COPING with their life lmao.
>This is fake
>This is actually just an extremely elaborate scheme by fromsoftware to throw us off
>Damn you're retarded I'm glad you don't write the lore and story at fromsoftware lmao
>Imagine falling for this shit
And when it came out people were hardcore coping, even redditors lost their mind and claimed even previews were fake lmao. The best part is that now nobody mentiones that now. Fromsoftware is perfect again. Just ignore that the game shipped with literally half the items having 0 descriptions and 2 quests being UNFINISHED 2 WEEKS AFTER THE HAME RELEASED.
>Obviously we just didn't find the clue to the quests yet
>2 weeks later they put in halfhearted endings for the quests
once fromsoftware falls, as they now produce slop like night reign, people are gonna look and, and obviously nobody was a hardcore fan.

>literally even NPC except nomadic merchants die
Kinda weak there are no happy endings. At least you can keep Moore alive in the DLC.

>make a great rpg
>decide to make it openworld so you have to fill it with numerous asset flips and duplicate minibosses from previous games
what next, some roguelike shit in the next game using er as a base?

>>719477267
Hewg, Roderika, Gostoc, Kenneth, Nepheli

>>719475878
>Radagon is a larval tear that literally hands the Rune that birthed him to Rennala, you actual cocksucking retard
where in the game exactly does this happen?

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>>719442569
>>719441568
It's getting giga delayed because the performance is garbage on Söytch 2

>Pick up item
>"This is a rock. Btw imperialism is bad"
>THE STORY IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO DECIPHER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN AN AFTERTHOUGHT/NOT THERE AT ALL/AI
are you guys actually retarded?

>>719477267
>At least you can keep Moore alive in the DLC
Doesn't he die either way?
Either you talk him into killing himself or he fights you at the end, or he attacks you if you hurt one of his pest friends

>>719476575
ER has the best no nonsense Sword and Board experience in FROM games so far, so you don't need to worry, you can be as basic or as "anime" as you want to be.

Actually the story is real and From deliberately makes it obscure so you have to discover it. One of the last few devs who actually care about making their games interesting and deep

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So when did you give up on Fromsoft lore?
My interest in it took a heavy hit with all the silly rewrites Dark Souls 3 got in development but Elden Ring dlc fully sent me over.

Fromsoft games are like playing retail WoW, I enjoy the gameplay and ignore every piece of dialogue because there's nothing actually planned, they don't even use a Rule of Cool to do nonsensical cool shit they just shit out whatever is in their head at that time.

>Author edits the story before releasing his book
>>SO HE RETCONNED IT!?!? WE WERE ROBBED.... OF THE ORIGINAL VISION???
how do you get this retarded?

>>719478435
>retail WoW, I enjoy the gameplay
absolute state of this board

>>719478435
dark souls 2, but held out hope for dark souls 3 as miyazaki didnt direct that one. turns out dark souls 3 was also shit so i just gave up, really. elden ring is also absolute dogshit and feels just like demons souls 6 with names and concepts flipped around.

>>719457357
>You can somewhat inform his philosophy through quest choices and picking an ending
No you can't. The Tarnished is a plot device used to progress the story. You can make him anything from a ruthless asshole to a bleeding heart. But canonically, he doesn't have any motivation or ambition outside of being Elden Lord
What you can infer from the quests(not just the choices you make in these quests, but the quests themselves) and different endings is Marika's philosophy and motivations for shattering the Elden Ring. It's her who's guiding you to and even through all of these quests

>>719478163
You're right.
Greatshield talisman, pump END, proceed to tank shit and then punish hard.
With how good weapon infusions are in this game, shield poking on most bosses is unironically the optimal, least dangerous, strat.
Why ever not block if you can poke with a Cold or Blood infused spear or thrusting sword and do % damage constantly?

60 VIG, 60 END, enough strength for whatever Greatshield you want, pump INT or ARC.
Great Shield Talisman. Either Turtle Talisman. Dragon Crest Shield Talisman.
Cold or Blood infusion on any thrusting weapon.
Hold Block, Mash R1
The DLC is now EZ

>>719478497
You have an irrational hatred of it because Blizzard butchered everything in WoW except the gameplay.
You can just play Classic anon it's right there and it's fun.

>>719478435
ER lore is too confusing with all the different family members and factions, if I dont touch the game for a few months I just forget everything and have to rewatch a bunch of 30 min youtube videos just to remember who is related to who
DS lore was really simple once you got it

>>719478435
When the final boss of all of dark souls was just some random fuck that was a literal who and not Velka. The final battle was between a random lump of ash and a slave.

>>719478435
Never
>Silly rewrites
DS3 and DS1 were localized badly, which is why you misunderstood both.

>>719477267
???
Nepheli, Gostoc and Kenneth survive provided you don't kill them for some reason and complete Nepheli's quest.
Patches survive provided you don't kill him for his armor set.
Rya survives if you don't give her the meds and supposedly gets out of the hellhole that is the Lands between, same thing is true for Jarbairn.
Jerren survives and fucks off somewhere if you're not a simp for Sellen.
Phillia (The huge albinauric girl in the snowfield) doesn't die and presumably gives birth to more albinaurics if you complete Latenna's questline.
Ranni also survives if you go for her ending.
Even Blackguard CAN survive if you don't meddle with the dung eater or use the NPC aggression trick.

>>719478928
Anyone that gets the Blackguard killed deserved it.
If you don't immediately kill the Dung Eater when you find him in the Sewers, then you get what is coming to you.

>>719476281
even the first straight sword you find is a high tier weapon. try 2 handing your weapon and blocking, they improved it a lot this time around and 2hand guard counters are really effective.

>>719476894
>Miquella and Malenia both do this.
Because they are Empyreans
Marika is not an Empyrean
>Loretta isn't called an Albinauric
Yes she did. Her mirrorshield is depicts a drop of dew, the dew that creates Albinaurics. Her armory is made of silver
>Are you claiming that the Hornsent Grandam was Marika's Grandam,
Yes.
>Grandam as a professional role, with the job of helping whatever Empyrean was around become a God?
The term Grandam is stolen from the Grandmother, a maiden channeling life from death.
The Grandam has the role of taking spirits from jar innards and bolstering the focus and divine connection of those requiring divine invocations. Marika is just an example
>This doesn't mean much at all.
Yes it does
>Things like the Abductor Virgins are just based in real life Iron Maidens
That has nothing to do with the fact that they are fashioned after the Gloam Eyed Queen and her depiction as Goddess Mother, nor the fact that they serve her in a society based on sacrifices
>The Nox were descendants of Marika in 1.0
No, the Night Maiden specifically were royalty, not all Nox. This didn't change, they were numen before becoming Nox.
>The Gloam Eyed Queen here doesn't fit no matter what, because there's no association with her fire seen anywhere
The Eternal City was the dominion of the Gloam Eyed Queen and her realm as Goddess on the Lands Between, through what was a large Empire. It has nothing to do with her fire, which is the Ghostflame found in many places

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>>719479075
>even the first straight sword you find is a high tier weapon
Wow, that is some nice poise you got there.
I'd hate to see it broken in the next 5 seconds.

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>>719477609
When you check on Rennala, retard
>>719478435
There were no rewrites, midwit
>>719477140
Melina is not the Gloam Eyed Queen nor the only character with spectral light in her eyes, retard

>>719478435
ER DLC. The single most disappointing piece of media I've ever experienced. Feels like I've waited 2 years to hear a really bad joke. Malenia is literally a fujoshi now. They threw a curve ball with this goofy ass plot line and had the gall to ask me to take it serious and even speculate some more.

>>719479420
>Malenia is literally a fujoshi now
She always was a rotten girl.

>>719476251
Denying the fingercreeper retcon has to be some kind of mental illness

>>719476281
Lucerne is solid

>>719441443
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x57Pirh97Lc

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>>719476281
bastard sword is king

>>719479648
There's no retcon

>>719476874
No it's not
It looks bothing like Rykard's Finger. It looks like Metyr's missing part

>>719479173
>Marika is not an Empyrean
You buffooning retard Marika was an Empyrean before ascending to Godhood

>>719480014
No she wasn't, and that's exactly the point

>>719479879
>sexiest looking greatsword
>get shit on in every game it's in
lol

>>719479648
stop watching Vaati's schizo fueled nonsense

>>719441443
>they realize that lore/story is an afterthought for fromsoftware right?
So is the gameplay.

>>719479648
Pushing that the Fingercreepers were retconned is the real cope.

>>719476281
Dual wielding shield bash your way to a miserable experience

>>719479173
Marika is an Empyrean.
Denying this is just silly.
You can say that she wasn't born one, but she was one by the time she became a God. Otherwise she'd have never been able to become one, duh.

The Mirrorshield only got linked to the Albinaurics later on, post 1.0 and the changes made.
Otherwise its just a slightly weird looking shield, but all Tree Sentinels have weird shields.

I agree that the Grandam was associated with Marika and her undergoing the Jar ritual.
But arguing that Empyrean Grandam means the same thing as the later Hornsent Grandam is just silly.
You're saying that it went from, "Grandam (to) Empyreans" to, "Grandam (of the) Hornsent (but whose job it is to help out Empyreans)".
This is just a reach. The DLC was just rewritten before release and the Hornsent went from Emypreans who had their chance at Godhood stolen by Marika, to being a race that was trying to create an Empyrean all along, that just got betrayed.

Rykard has no link to the Gloam Eyed Queen, directly.
The Nox, even in 1.0, had no link to the GEQ.
The Ghostflame and the GEQ's fire are different things. They are both fire, but the GEQ's flames most likely were red and black like destined death, before it was sealed away. They weren't always white. While the ghostflame seen in Catacombs or Nox cities was always white and is associated with death in a way that predates even the Erdtree.

There's no reason to think that the GEQ had an empire of any sort.

>>719480198
You're delusional. Holy mackerel

>>719457534
Gurranq is horseshit but Maliketh is great. He's literally just "stop dodging away from him you moron" the boss.

>>719479301
>Melina is not the Gloam Eyed Queen
She obviously is.

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>>719480374
The Gloam Eyed Queen died when Marika was just getting started with the entire lands between, Melina literally wasn't even born yet and she's Marika's daughter so she can't be the Gloam Eyed Queen since she directly opposed Marika in her ascension to the point she had to sic Maliketh at her.

>>719480510
Who is Malena's father?

>>719441443
I like lore videos, I just hate the specific behavior of the specific ones who became popular. VaatiVidya for example just steals content from other people. Hell, even his avatar and name is stolen from a Zelda game. The motherfucker can't think or do anything for himself, his whole identity is finding and repurposing shit other people thought or made for his own purposes.
It pisses me off.
I like lore content, but I can't stand the caliber of twerpy plagiarist who makes that content, if that makes sense.

>>719480613
Radagon, since she's Rizzmer's little sister and Rizzmer has Radagon's red hair and was around for the war against the giants.

>>719480283
No retort, as expected.

>>719480510
>The Gloam Eyed Queen died when Marika was just getting started with the entire lands between
The timeline of when Melina was born is not clear. She could have easily been born right near the earliest stages of Marika's rule.
Hell, it makes more sense for the GEQ to be around after Marika was already in power, because she led the Godskins. Who wore the skins of the Gods and their families.
If Marika wasn't a God already and wasn't having children, then whose skins were the Godskins stealing and wearing?
It makes a lot more sense for her to have come about later. After Marika was already having children and her children were having children and so on.

>Marika betrays the Hornsent after being made into a God.
>Marika marries Godfrey. Godfrey kills the Giants, he's banished.
>Some time around this Radagon is created, and he bears the curse of the Giants.
>Radagon and Marika have two children. One is Messmer, who has a flaming serpent in him that could burn even the Erdtree down. The other is Melina, who is driven to kill the Gods. Another example of Marika's children all being defective
>Melina is chosen by the Fingers to be an Empyrean.
>She starts building her own army and starts hunting the rest of the royal family. Raising Godskins herself from babes.
>She wields the Rune of Death, either taking it or having a direct inherent link to it.
>Marika sends Maliketh after her, and he defeats her and seals away the Rune of Death in his blade.
>Melina's ghost is retained and is seemingly an amnesiac. Marika keeps her around, hidden away for a later purpose.
>If Melina is alive after the player unseals the Rune of Death she regains her memory and identity

That is to me the easiest way to handle this problem with the least amount of jumps.

>>719479301
>When you check on Rennala, retard
Radagon is where?

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>>719457557
This kind of shit was exactly why the practice was banned in the first place. She fucked around and found out.

No one ever answers the real questions, like why are Godwyn fans extremely schizophrenic?

>>719481763
The premise of Godwyn is that he's the lost golden boy whose tragic death doomed the world. He's supposed to be too perfect to live, in a literary sense.
That is where it would stop, logically. But he was killed by a woman, so that sets incels off hard.

>>719480821
I don't need to give you a retort, the proof behind the retcon are blatant and have been discussed at length this past year, numerous times.
You claim to be a sage of ER lore, acting smug and superior to others, yet you claim that the Giant finger weapon is in line with Metyr's model - despite it having been proven to be IDENTICAL to rykard's fingers
You're a waste of oxygen and a disgrace to the lore community

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Speaking of Sellen, did you guys know that she's pretty under her mask?

>>719481304
The reason why Melina has a connection with the Rune of Death and why Messmer bears a serpentine flame is because they are the progeny of the Gloam Eyed Queen.
Marika used her Radagon form to seduce and fuck her
That's the "seduction and betrayal" spoken of in the opening cinematic

>>719481925
>by a woman
Most fans are her simps even though she is evil.

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>>719480236
>Marika is an Empyrean.
>Denying this is just silly.
Where is it stated that she is?
>You can say that she wasn't born one, but she was one by the time she became a God
And that might as well be the last 20 minutes of the game, where her real ascendancy is complete. She is in fact never stated to be Empyrean nor chosen by the Fingers. She is a usurper who studied the light cipher and shattered the Elden Ring in order to merge back in a new Order with Radagon.
>The Mirrorshield only got linked to the Albinaurics later on,
I don't need a description to use my eyes
>But arguing that Empyrean Grandam means the same thing as the later Hornsent Grandam is just silly.
And why is that? If the Hornsent Grandam becomes a priestess for Marika, that makes her the dedicated Empyrean Grandam
>You're saying that it went from, "Grandam (to) Empyreans" to, "Grandam (of the) Hornsent (but whose job it is to help out Empyreans)".
It went from Grandam of the Empyrean to Grandam of the Hornsent. Marika needed the help of the rites of the Crucible to obtain the necessary power and her using the Grandam is clear.
>The DLC was just rewritten before release
No, it wasn't
>and the Hornsent went from Emypreans who had their chance at Godhood stolen by Marika
You don't know shit about what Empyreans are, and you don't know the base game, because that already places Marika's betrayal of the Hornsent during the foundation of Golden Order Fundamentalism, when the perfumers became Omenkillers and the Fundamentalists started hunting
>Rykard has no link to the Gloam Eyed Queen
And?
>The Nox, even in 1.0, had no link to the GEQ.
Yes they do
>The Ghostflame and the GEQ's fire are different things.
No they aren't.
>most likely were red and black like destined death
Nope, both are corruptions of Ghostflame, with the latter not even being Flame but light. True Ghostflame is Purple, the mix of Red (death of the body) and blue (death of the soul)
>There's no reason
Except there is

>>719482136
If Marika or the Hornsent are 10/10 assholes, Ranni is at most like a 6.
Killing an innocent man in cold blood is bad, but she did it with purpose towards a sympathetic end.

>>719458514
Those fuckers have cost me more runes than anything else in the game. I was extremely salty when I slogged through that dungeon at the end of Radahn's beach and found that one of them was the boss. I pull out my Wyrm Scalesword specifically just to deal with these cunts, but he's far stronger than any other one I've faced.

>>719480236
>Empyrean
I don't think this means what you think it does.

>>719481732
She looks happy in there. That's what she wanted to be.

>>719442569
*gets kicked in the dick*

>>719481698
>>719479301
hey lore guy answer me, where is Radagon in this image?

>>719482091
The GEQ isn't even mentioned in the DLC.

>>719481938
Why would the Fingercreepers be in Caria Manor and the Mountaintops if they were from Rykard? Why would they be cripplingly weak to fire if they were Rykard's hands when he's a fire god that bathes in lava?

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>>719480374
No. She is not
The Gloam Eyed Queen is Eiglay, a shapeshifting serpent queen
>>719481304
>The timeline of when Melina was born is not clear.
Yes it is.
She was born with the Erdtree and states that. Fact is you don't understand how births work in Elden Ring (despite a literal rebirth function) because you are superficial and dumb
>Hell, it makes more sense for the GEQ to be around after Marika was already in power
No it doesn't
>then whose skins were the Godskins stealing and wearing?
Random people because the Godskins only celebrate the 7 Demigod sacrifices of the Gloam Eyed Queen
>>Marika betrays the Hornsent after being made into a God.
No, that happens much later
>>Marika sends Maliketh after her
Maliketh is more ancient than Marika's rule, given by the Fingers to his chosen Empyrean, and the only role Marika had for him when she adopted him was to be a vessel for the the Rune of Death. At that point he was already deemed the Death of the Demigod
The empire of the Gloam Eyed Queen is destroyed with Eternal Darkness, which also sends Farum Azula in time stasis and destroys the Eternal City

>>719482217
If there wasn't a split second moment when only the English localization used the term "Empyrean Grandam", there would be no debate on the internet.

>>719475742
Those respawning large variants are just lesser runebears. They get bigger and meaner.

>>719482419
It's the image of the orphic egg that Radagon gave to Rennala, retard

>>719482648
>lesser
Stop following Fextra's retarded nomenclatures. A Runebear is a Runebear.

>>719479992
It’s literally the same model as Rykard’s finger, anon.

>>719482775
This game really could have benefited from having a bestiary.

Lorefags, why are the subterranean shunning grounds such a dogshit level?

>>719474465
It's one of the starting classes being added in the upcoming Tarnished Edition

>>719482719
So why does Radagon giving an egg to Rennala (where is this in the game btw?) mean that Radagon is a larval tear?
Also, in the first place, why was Radagon born from the Great Rune of the Unborn and where is that mentioned in the game?

>>719477020
No lol. Loretta went from a generic male tree sentinel gifted from Radagon to Miquella, to a former Carian knight woman who willingly left to the Haligtree to protect the pilgrimage of albinaurics. Daedicar went from Rykard’s gay sadist inquisitor to being a sex crazed prostitute woman who gave birth to snakes. Serosh was Maliketh, and the Putrescent Knight was the Gloam-Eyed Queen’s knight. Euporia went from a weapon made from the duality of Miquella and Malenia to a Hornsent artifact predating Marika’s rise to power. The Nox and the Hornsent were both considered Empyreans in different drafts, owing to the Marika retconning. Marika herself in her backstory went from a citizen of the eternal cities’ warrior caste to a country bumpkin shrine maiden.

You really just need to accept that they come up with cool designs and scenes first, as well as the vaguest outline possible, and then try to stitch them together holistically shortly before release (or even after).

>>719483156
you're not supposed to go there, didn't the name clue you in?

>>719482504
The idea is that the ancestral Fingercreeper was originally Rykard's cut off hand, OR the hand of someone else who underwent the same transformation in the past
Then it started reproducing and many of its descendants were taken as guard dogs by different factions
The weakness to fire is irrelevant, as the magma sorceries of Rykard had nothing to do with the serpent itself which initiated the transformation

>>719483156
They're literal sewers

>>719483468
>Euporia went from a weapon made from the duality of Miquella and Malenia to a Hornsent artifact predating Marika’s rise to power.
Euporia sure doesn't look very Hornsent to me in terms of iconography. Clearly it's not related to them. It is however related to Godwyn the Golden, as it explicitly does not work on those who live in death.

>>719480343
The issue isn't so much the direction you're dodging rather than the fact maliketh has attacks that come out instantly with 0 tell.

>>719483627
It’s outright called the secret treasure of their divine tower, and they guard it themselves when you track it down. Of course it’s related to them.

>>719483349
>So why does Radagon giving an egg to Rennala (where is this in the game btw?)
Play the game
>>719483468
Loretta was always female and albinauric, with a design specifically hinting she is albinauric
>Daedicar went from Rykard’s gay sadist inquisitor to being a sex crazed prostitute woman who gave birth to snakes.
Swapping names is a retcon?
>Serosh was Maliketh
False
>and the Putrescent Knight was the Gloam-Eyed Queen’s knight
It still is, retard
>The Nox and the Hornsent were both considered Empyreans
False
>Marika herself in her backstory went from a citizen of the eternal cities’ warrior caste
False
>You really just need to accept that they come up with cool designs and scenes first, as well as the vaguest outline possible, and then try to stitch them together holistically shortly before release (or even after).
Nope, you are hilariously wrong because you can't understand the base game and that fucks up even your perception of cut content
>>719483510
>The idea is that the ancestral Fingercreeper was originally Rykard's cut off hand
Wrong
>The weakness to fire is irrelevant
Wrong
>as the magma sorceries of Rykard had nothing to do with the serpent itself which initiated the transformation
Wrong, Mt. Gelmir was reknown for the worship of the serpent God from which Magma sorceries originate
It's hilarious that you try to lecture anyone on lore and retcon when you can't even get your facts straight
The Ringed Finger used to be a remembrance weapon of Rykard with no association whatsoever to the Fingercreepers in 1.0, and then it was decides to have it connected to Marika's injury instead as missing part and prize of heretics.

>>719482504
Metyr also resists fire, btw.

>>719484086
Please refer to the 1.00 descriptions and internal names of enemies, before you embarrass yourself further.

So like what’s with all the insufferable gurl power in this game?

>>719482217
>Where is it stated that she is?
Maliketh's Remembrance.

She becomes a full God after she walks through the Divine Gate.
She was chosen by the Fingers, she was an Empyrean, she was connected to the Order the fingers presided over.
Everything in the game shows that she was very conventional as a God up until the point that she started to want to betray the Fingers.

Using your eyes doesn't mean much.
If you didn't have later info saying that Loretta was an Albinauric, no one would have called her one or said she was connected to her.
This is relying on foreknowledge to discuss something that happened in the past.

The names mean different things.
Both names were meant to identify the race and the role of the NPC.
She's either an ancient Empyrean, or she's an ancient Hornsent who wasn't an Empyrean. That was the intention of the name all along.
Marika's rise probably is related to the Crucible in that the Hornsent Jar Ritual channeled the Crucible's power to create saints. But she herself was unlikely to ever have connected to it. She seems to have always hated the Crucible, and did everything she could to keep it distant or controlled.

The Omen Killers and the Fundamentalists going on Omen hunting pogroms makes sense regardless of which way the DLC was written. The betrayal happens in both scenarios.
The concept of the Hornsent and them being given a collective title of Empyrean (as seen in the game code) was meant to invoke the idea that they were all divinely chosen and were going to have a member chosen to become a God, until that was stolen by Marika. They're literally all called Empyreans in the game files. This is not true in the DLC we got.
The DLC as is, has them trying to make a God out of the Shamans, and Marika betraying them by going rogue after becoming a God. With Marika becoming an Empyrean after being empowered by probably surviving the Jar Ritual.

>>719484216
You are wrong and full of shit

>>719482217
>>719484295
Rykard built the Abductor Virgins.
If he doesn't have any link to the GEQ, then why would his creations?

Ghostflame and the Godskin Flames are not the same.
We know that one is way older than the other, because Ghostflame predates the Erdtree and the GEQ being around.
We have no reason to think that Ghostflame as it exists is 'incomplete'. But the GEQ's flames used by the Godskins is explicitly so.
The Nox never had a link to the Gloam Eyed Queen. They were always a distinct group.

>>719482347
You can be an Empyrean and a God.
One comes before the other.

What do you dispute with my use of it?

>>719482504
Rykard sending his agents around places associated with either his past and home (Carian Manor) or associated with the fate of the Erdtree and others becoming Elden Lord (the Forge of the Giants).
Fingers appear around Raya Lucaria, around Volcano Manor, near the Divine Tower of Liurnia, near Carian Manor, and near the Forge of the Giants. All places that Rykard would have an interest in controlling.

Why would his Abductor Virgins be in Carian Manor but not his hands?

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>>719482628
>eiglay is a shapeshifting queen
You have literally no evidence for this and won't be able to share any of it.

>>719483156
It is a great level.
If you get lost, that is on you. Just don't fall down every hole that you see. All of the pitfalls can be jumped.
If you head straight there is only one choice that you have to make at the very end in a tunnel that loops around on itself. At that point its a 50/50 shot, with one being clearly the more obvious path.

Ymir should have been a major character in the base game. He would have been an amazing villainous foil to Ranni. He’s the teacher of her mom and aunt to boot.

I just beat ER for the first time. It was a lot of fun. Frankly, I loved it. I played a mage build. I started NG+ but unfortunately, a lot of the magic is gone. Has any one else experienced this? Maybe this FromSoft game doesn't have good replayability.

>>719483468
Don’t forget the cut twin blade that was originally meant to be Miquella’s and Malenia’s… which was then repurposed as a fabled weapon of the hornsent…

>>719485001
yeah it can't possibly be you, it's always the game's fault.

>>719485001
Swap to a new build.
Doing an INT build in one run and then swapping to a FAI build on your second gets you the most diversity of fun shit to mess around with.
Just rush down Rennala.

>>719483468
>>719485019
Oh wait I didn’t notice you mentioned Euporia (I was tard wrangling my dog), cheers.

>>719485134
Yeah I was thinking about trying Rivers of Blood after respecing. I'll give it a shot

Did they forget the h in euporia

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>>719484295
>Maliketh's Remembrance
False
>She becomes a full God after she walks through the Divine Gate.
False
>She was chosen by the Fingers
She wasn't, actually
>Everything in the game shows that she was very conventional as a God up until the point that she started to want to betray the Fingers.
Hilarious headcanon, Marika doesn't even mention the Fingers btw.
>If you didn't have later info saying that Loretta was an Albinauric, no one would have called her one
Yes I would by seeing her armor and horse
>She's either an ancient Empyrean, or she's an ancient Hornsent who wasn't an Empyrean. That was the intention of the name all along.
So if Empyrean Grandam implies she is an Empyrean and that was retconned, that means the Finger Maidens are actual Fingers and NOT Maidens able to read the light cipher and translate the communications of the Fingers, right?
>But she herself was unlikely to ever have connected to it.
Quit talking nonsense if you didn't pay attention
>makes sense regardless of which way the DLC was written.
No they don't, because the Omen curse, lockdown of the Realm of Shadow and all those events are placed later than Radagon marriage with Marika
Please end the headcanon here. The concept of Empyrean is very deliberate and associated to specific individuals in societies and was defined long before the DLC
>They're literally all called Empyreans in the game files.
No they aren't. Their concept of divinity refers to them being "heralds of horn" in many translations
>>719484348
>Rykard built the Abductor Virgins.
No, the Abductor Virgins are much more ancient than Rykard. Not only they are modeled after the Gloam Eyes Queen, by they also have the Godskin/Festive pattern in their closed belly
>not the same
Yes they are, as I already proved
>Ghostflame predates the Erdtree
So does GEQ
>>719484705
Yes I do. Eiglay's body is placed after her amnion which is defended by Godskins, Godskins that are created by the Gloam Eyed Queen

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>>719485001
It's because the gameplay isn't anything special. Most of the enjoyment comes from exploring and discovering the unknown.

Reminder that the Greatjar of Caelid is more powerful than anything you fight in the game. Same with those two crystal Buddha dudes.

>>719485343
>Yes I do. Eiglay's body is placed after her amnion which is defended by Godskins, Godskins that are created by the Gloam Eyed Queen
Godskins just hang out anywhere associated with divinity.
They in front of the divine tower of Liurnia, in the one for Caelid, before Maliketh, proceeding over a religious ritual by Leyndell, and in Rykard's church.
They just hang out anywhere that is associated with divinity or religious practice, because they're looking for Gods or demigods or those empowered by them to kill.

Hell, by number given that 3 places that you find the Godskins are associated with Rennala's children, maybe she was the Gloam Eyed Queen!
That is the level of reasoning that you're going with here.

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>>719458514
What are these things supposed to be? I get that the staff avatars are the erdtree protecting it's offspring, but what is an "ulcerated tree spirit"? Nothing about it makes me think of a tree besides the bark skin. And yeah these and the drakes they reused a bit too much, even into the dlc. One trick I used as melee is on things you normally have to roll through like the tail or head sweep, you can use the shield bash ash of war to block it as well as attack since you can't be guard broken in that animation even if you run out of stamina.
Great game though all things said, I'm still playing it even up to this week. I really wonder how they will follow this game up but I'm looking forward to whatever it will be.

Do you think Messmer’s intestines are literally a bunch of coiled snakes.

>>719485591
NTA but Godskins are undoubtedly in cohoots with Rykard
Eiglay and the GEQ have some sort of connection, even though I don't subscribe to the idea they're the same being

>>719486176
They'd skin Rykard if they could kill him.

>>719441443
It especially funny when you revisit demon souls’ lore content, where you get enemies like the fat noble guy being referred to as a character “This was because the Nobleman chained them up and left them on this hillside to protect his hidden chest where he keeps his +5 2H hammer!”

I think the reason ER gets so much additional attention to lore is because of the big deal they made out of the partnership with George RR Fartin

>>719485591
>Godskins just hang out anywhere associated with divinity.
No they don't
>They in front of the divine tower of Liurnia, in the one for Caelid, before Maliketh, proceeding over a religious ritual by Leyndell, and in Rykard's church.
So everywhere associated with the Gloam Eyed Queen, the Nox and the Empire preceding the Golden Order
They also hang out in the Temple of their Mother, where they protect the Serpent's Amnion that birthed them, because Eiglay is the Gloam Eyed Queen

>>719486556
I forgot about that deep association between the Gloam Eyed Queen and the Divine Tower of Caelid.
Care to share it?

>>719486705
Maybe the fact that you find her sword there, and that it's the divine tower of the land of the Ancient Dragons and Beastmen, that worshipper her as Goddess

>>719487014
The Apostle is clearly hiding and protecting it there, rather than the sword being originally from that location.
We find her Godskin Swaddling Cloth in the Mountaintops, so that is most likely where her home was.
The Divine Tower is just a location that is associated with Godhood and godly energy. That is why it attracts Godskins.
The beastmen do not worship her at all. The beastmen are associated with the Dragons and one of the previous Golden Order cycles. Way predating either the GEQ or anyone else.

>>719441443
>l-lore is an afterthought
>quite literally the only thing Miyazaki does in these games
>their biggest game yet brought one of the most famous writers of the modern era to write it's lore
sure thing anon

>>719487235
No, you find it there because of the Serpent Snail dropping it and summoning Godskin, yet you can't wrap your head around the Gloam Eyed Queen being Eiglay because you want confirmatoon to your Reddit bias that Melina is the Gloam Eyed Queen instead.

The Divine Towers are towers where the old Empire spread Runes of the old Order to various people, which is why they all have Fell God imagery and have meteorite stones embedded in them. That means the Caelid Divine Tower is where the Gloam Eyed Queen obtained and activated her Great Rune

>>719483784
>their Divine Tower
*of the tower
How did it get there? Why is it secret? It clearly not Hornsent, so why is it there?

>>719484086
>Play the game
Tell me, where in the game is any of that. Surely, if you are right, you can just prove your headcanon using sources from the game.
I have it booted up right now, just tell me where to go.

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This guy making all the outlandish claims is the same one that haunted the dlc threads repeating "play the game to find out" to anyone questioning his theories. You won't get anything but condescending retorts from him, just ignore him because he sours discussion about this game.

>>719487827
Yes, the Snail summons the spirits of the Godskin that lived there in the distant past.
That cave was a place where Godskin were reared and brought up and empowered by being clothed in the skins of killed Gods.
At no point have you demonstrated anything linking Eiglay and the Gloam Eyed Queen other than the placement of one repeat boss that is also located in 2 other places. Other than the Godskin Noble, list one thing that links Eiglay and the Gloam Eyed Queen.

The Divine Towers being older than the Erdtree is probably true.
But that means nothing regarding them being linked to the Gloam Eyed Queen, just demonstrating that they have ancient divine power that would attract Godskins as we see.
>fell god imagery
Meaningless claim.

>>719488261
architect bros

>>719441443
the thing about the lore is that you can just make up whatever bullshit you want and people will slurp it up and call you a genius for it. it's gay and lucrative but primarily gay. it's best not to even engage with that type of retardation.
>>719447959
revenants are the most annoying motherfuckers of the bunch, everything else is manageable more or less. it's why I always make sure I at least have enough faith to do a healing spell because fuck those assholes I will NOT humor their dogshit.

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>>719488292
>At no point have you demonstrated anything linking Eiglay and the Gloam Eyed Queen
Besides the blatant link of serpentine forms and creatures and finding the womb of a serpent and the virgin abductor having snakes and the pattern of the Godskin Apostle garb on it, that is
>Yes, the Snail summons the spirits of the Godskin that lived there in the distant past
Source? Your ass
>But that means nothing regarding them being linked to the Gloam Eyed Queen,
Besides all the ways I showed how the Caelid divine tower is connected
>The Divine Towers being older than the Erdtree is probably true.
The fact that you are not certain of it shows how fucking dumb and bad you are at this
>>fell god imagery
>Meaningless claim.
Don't you ever get tired of looking like an idiot? Go migrate into some gacha faggotry thread, Elden Ring is too intellectual for /v/tards like you

>>719488594
No, the lore is very clear and consistent. If subhumans are too brown to get it it's not Miyazaki's fault

>>719489170
it's the opposite of clear and consistent, it's obfuscated and only partially elucidated half the time. your skin tone has nothing to do with that. besides, people will stretch the lore by putting circumstantial evidence together using whatever dubious reasoning they want to effectively pull shit out of their ass so to speak, and given the fact that there's no clear and concise answers, and a lot is therefore left to interpretation, it's easy for anyone to pose themselves as an authority on the matter, which is gay.
>hurr durr my interpretation is better than yours
is fucking stupid and a waste of time even considering. might as well not even waste time on it to begin with.

>>719489014
The Godskins having weird anatomy is already accounted for in their gear.
It says that they have Crucible powers because of the skins they wear.
No connection to Eiglay.
The Abductor Virgins have no link to the Gloam Eyed Queen. We literally know who built them.
We know even that they were built after Rykard was around and a man, because their weapons are based on tools his inquisitors used - the Ghiza Wheel was the inspiration for the Virgins, not the other way around.
>clothing patterns
This is seeing Jesus in a slice of toast tier stuff. There are only so many decorations possible in the world and both just use vague swoopy lines, that are seen all over.

If you haven't caught on to my bit, I'm being deliberately over the top with my claims as to the where, what, and why for the Gloam Eyed Queen character.
I don't actually care much whether the cave in the Mountaintops is actually where she reared infant Godskins. My point is that there is more linking her to this random cave, than anything that you've listed so far.

There is nothing in that imagery that has any meaning regarding a link.
That is elaborate purely decorative knotwork and filigree that you see on everything in the game, and two red and black things.
This is more Jesus in a slice of toast stuff. You can see the same on most of the architecture in the setting because everything is covered in tons of carvings. The Giants have no link to space.

I gave the tonic to rya accidentally. Did i miss anything important?

>>719489847
if I remember correctly she gives you a talisman when you complete her quest and that's about it.

>>719489928
Ok, so nothing important that will deter me from completing more quests in the manor? I can live with this fuck up if it's just her letter and her talisman.

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>>719489797
>All that evidence doesn't count because I decide to ignore it and claim it is meaningless and random
>Also I won't bring evidence my made up theories because I don't care
Sasuga, faggot-sama
>>719489421
>it's obfuscated and only partially elucidated half the time.
If you are borwn, it can give that impression to you
>it's easy for anyone to pose themselves as an authority on the matter
I can pose myself as authority because I know the game and can show evidence of it

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>>719489847
>

>>719490448
your obsession with skin tone notwithstanding, you are incorrect. the game will give you item descriptions like:
>Sacred sword of the Gloam-Eyed Queen who controlled the Godskin Apostles before her defeat at the hands of Maliketh. The black flames wielded by the apostles are channeled from this sword.
and retards will take this, along with other seemingly unrelated factoids and information, and synthesize it into a load of bullshit large enough to destroy hiroshima and nagasaki 100x over, and then even more retards will argue over the interpretation, while forgetting that it's one of a million potential interpretations, and nobody has enough information to make any determinations about anything, because these shreds of information aren't taken piecemeal from some whole cloth, and are instead random mad libs that someone made by casting dice or more appropriately using an algorithm or something.

but, case in point, I don't care what you say. think what you want. I'm not going to change your mind if it's already made up.

hey elite loremaster, buddy, I am waiting >>719488136

>>719490970
That description states clearly that Maliketh turned against his Empyrean when the Gloam Eyed Queen rebelled to the Fingers
There's mo way to interpret it as anything else, but you are brown and retarded

Every time i see a female npc in any of these games I just know she will die.

>>719490448
Your entire evidence is similar stone carvings in a setting with 1 billion examples of similar stone carvings, misunderstandings about a common enemy type, and just shit you're making up regarding Eiglay for literally no reason.

Volcano Manor is pretty well self-contained, with the most you could say being that Eiglay has some link to Messmer.
Otherwise there's nothing here. The Gloam Eyed Queen is pretty well established in her role, and it has nothing to do with a giant snake that wants to eat Gods and who is merging with Rykard.

>>719492238
Why would you have any reason to think that when the game is clear about Maliketh being Marika's mutt?
There is literally no justification for thinking otherwise that isn't total fantasy.

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>>719491045
>The Academy of Raya Lucaria lies to Limgrave's north, towering over the mist-laden lands of Liurnia. Rennala is the queen of the Carian royals, who govern the academy. But Rennala herself is no demigod. Her beloved, Radagon, left her to become Queen Marika's second husband, taking the title of King Consort. The Great Rune dwells within the amber egg that was Radagon's gift to her.
- Gideon

>>719492434
>when the game is clear about Maliketh being Marika's mutt?
No
>>719492307
See>>719490448

>>719490970
> these shreds of information aren't taken piecemeal from some whole cloth, and are instead random mad libs that someone made by casting dice or more appropriately using an algorithm or something.
Jesus christ just give up

>>719441443

I never understood the appeal of lore and story in a fucking video game. It always was an after thought. I could never take story seriously in a video game.

You losers do realize, that the story was written by a failed auther or some degenerate twink with blue hair ? The only BASED stories are those that dont try. Stories thay try are pathetic.

Like nah im not gonna spend time diving into the lore that some fucking ... random man wrote. are you fucking gay ?

Stories that worth it are turned into cinema and books, video game stories are pathetic and cringe because they were made by losers that couldnt fucking make it so they sell their shit to low standards gaming industry.

Like some fucking losers discuss pokemon lore like holy shit you pathetic subhuman twink lol, gooks laughing their asses off the story exists to sell toys and grown ass men obsess over that shit like degenerates.
>why yes there are only pokemon gyms on earth because there was a great war you see blah blah

Video games are about gameplay i have never played a video game with memorable stories because im not a fucking beta fag that will consume the dreams of some other man like a homosexual kek, a woman ? Even worse.

You all suck i hate you all lol. Wish we could go back to 2002 when laughing and alienating absolute beta losers was mainstream.

Imagine a fucking bald 40 year old boomer shitting up some female protagonist story and you being a man, actually taking it seriously, the fap dreams of another man. Homosexuals.

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>>719492238
>retard misses the point entirely
>>719492562
what, can't handle the truth?

>>719483720
That so incorrect I can only assume you fought him with summons and didn't actually learn his moveset

>>719492591
Holy projection batman

>>719492553
Maliketh's name is literally based on Marika's.
マリカ (Marika) and マリケス (Marikesu)
He literally just has her name. He is her doggy.

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>>719492640
>This doesn't make sense
>>Yes it does
>N-no you missed the point
Looks like you missed the point, pal
Maliketh killer his real Empyrean, and never Marika is stated to have been chosen by the Fingers (she wasn't)

>>719492829
Prove that she wasn't chosen by the Fingers.
Positive evidence for this stance.

Why is Patches in every game? Is he actually god?

>>719492814
No, Maliketh means Death of the Demigods
Because she killed the Gloam Eyed Queen and her children
His name is Gurranq and he is a beast much ancient than Marika

>>719480618
i mainly despise people like vaati for their melodramatic and overly narrativized style, as very much made emblematic by his insistence on the term "prepare to cry". i quite like The Tarnished Archaeologist for his more frank and dry style.

>>719492910
>Prove that she wasn't chosen by the Fingers.
Simply put, she is never stated to have been, unlike every other Empyrean

>>719492953
Literacy is in the sewer

>>719492829
>idiot doubles down
it's all so tiresome. don't reply to me anymore, alright. I'll reiterate once more
>any asshole can take shreds of what seems like important evidence but what may be nothing more than circumstantial at best and act like they said evidence is needle in the haystack, the pivotal smoking gun for some stupid theory that would otherwise have no traction and can only exist specifically because there is a fundamental lack of information
contend with that and that alone because I have made no statements in this thread regarding the lore itself.

>>719483282
what is that? a nintendo switch version? im a little bit out of the loop on this. do they get shit that we dont get to have on pc?

>>719493003
TA has also started doing the same now, i guess when you get enough sycophants stroking your ego you just become insufferable

Is Rennala really the most powerful character in the lore?

>>719492950
He is Miyazaki's avatar. He doesn't show up in Dark Souls 2 for this reason.

>>719492953
His name didn't literally mean that, it was a figure of speech.
Like, "the name Tom Brady came to mean being the best at football".

Gurranq is his priestly name in the church he runs for the little midgets and gargoyles. Half the characters in this game have multiple names when they're in different roles.
And you could even compare it to how Blaidd is known as that and as the Baleful Shadow when he hunts Ranni.

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>>719493018
Then it isn't explicitly stated that Maliketh betrayed the Gloam Eyed Queen, so it didn't happen.

>>719493165
maybe so, i havent watched him in a good while, but i just remember some of his video were most historical in nature rather than ultra-narrativized like most others. sucks if thats true.

>>719493186
What about the runebear in consecrated snowfield? He's probably stronger.

>>719493372
On the first bunch were great, analyzing the structures and architecture really made me respect what fromsoft had achieved in Elden Ring even more, even had me using the telescope on stuff on my next playthrough a lot more. But he started adding more *storytelling* and awkwardly connecting things to confirm his narratives

>>719493018
>Queen Marika is the vessel of the Elden Ring, carrier of its vision. A god, in truth.
>But after the Elden Ring's shattering, she was imprisoned in the Erdtree. A grim punishment for shattering the Order, despite her godhood.
>The Fingers speak... "Marika's trespass demanded a heavy sentence." "But even in shackles, she remains a god, and the vision's vessel." "Confer Great Runes to become Elden Lord, and join Queen Marika as her consort." "The Fingers have willed it so."
>Now, you may go.
From Enia, the lady who gives you boss gear.
The Fingers choose Marika and put her as the executor of their vision for the world, their Order. And then she 'trespassed' by disobeying them and now is punished and a new Lord is being supported to keep her in line after Radagon failed.

>>719493039
Yes, lots of midwits get filtered by Souls lore

>Long ago, Gurranq was a beast of such terrifying ferocity that his former name meant "Death of the Demigods."
>Maliketh was a shadowbound beast given to his Empyrean.
>Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death.Even then, she betrayed him.

Anyone with a modicum of literacy would understand that Maliketh entered service for Marika long after being assigned to an actual Empyrean, that bsing the Gloam Eyed Queen.
You can even see that his black armor was of Nox manifacture and later decorated with gold

Unfortunately literacy is indeed in the sewer
>>719493120
>circumstantial at best
No, it's very well contextualized, despite retards like you struggling
>>719493232
No, Gurranq is his name
>>719493319
It is in fact stated, because Maliketh killed the Demigods and is stated to have defeated the Gloam Eyed Queen

>>719493775
Quote me the line where it says he betrayed the Gloam Eyed Queen.
The exact line or paragraph or wheresoever you got that from.

>>719493612
yeah, hes definitely engaged in some speculation as well, but i guess i just didnt see that sentimentality and melodrama that i often see in so many other youtubers. do you know any other good contemporary souls youtubers that dont dwell on sappy bullshit to check out?

>>719493442
Fuck that asshole

>>719457557
Now that's what I call blue balling

>>719493186
>>719493442
>>719494112
You now remember that one golem off the edge of Caelid overlooking the area where you fought Radahn

>>719494227
Shit, man.
What about that Catacombs right after Radahn where the knights hit harder than he did?
The War Dead Catacombs killed me more than Radahn himself.

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>>719493775
>it's very contextualized
so your best rebuttal is
>nuh uh!
ok, pal. have fun.

>>719494227
Unique moveset variant with boss hp banished to protect a random ash of war in the middle of nowhere, so weird

>>719494150
Rated poor

>>719492953
Maliketh and Gurranq are different beasts. Gurranq serves Maliketh and will ultimately merge with Maliketh if you feed him enough deathroot, with Maliketh gaining his memories, but he is otherwise completely separate from Maliketh. There are likely more beast clergyman that we don't see in game.

>>719457557
She didn’t do it to herself. I don’t know why people think this. First of all, they’re mad science experiments, explicitly, and don’t just happen, unlike glintstone crystallization, which is some form of silicon lifeform that grows inside and outside the body, like a rock cancer.

She took the essences of Azur and Lusat the same way you took her essence. It’s unknown what she did with them. It’s unlikely she shoved herself in with them when she was planning on governing the academy. Why would she put herself out of commission like that?

Also. Why would she put herself in with a bunch of sorcerers she dislikes? You’ll notice that there isn’t a single Karolos crown to be seen anywhere, on any of the graven masses. It’s only Lazuli and Olivinus crowns, the two conspectuses that went against the primeval current.

>>719494041
It definitely starts coming through when he tries to explain the stone coffins from the DLC, even if I agree with some of his ideas about the "flood"
I dont got any other reccomends though, I just hope he pivots back to more evidence-based extrapolation

>>719494335
You’re supposed to let them kill each other.

>>719493750
None of these state the Fingers chose Marika
Marika is never called Empyrean in game
In fact, it's the opposite. Ymir states of Marika is a usurper that tainted the roots of the world with her actions
>>719493931
>The Gloam-Eyed Queen led the apostles. It is said that she was an Empyrean chosen by the Fingers.
>The apostles, once said to serve Destined Death, are wielders of the god-slaying black flame.
>But after their defeat by Maliketh, the Black Blade, the source of their power was sealed away.
>>719494341
>This doesn't make sense because I decide it doesn't
Is no argument, faggot

>>719494472
Oh my god

>>719494564
Only works for the first room.
Then you keep moving and get blasted for 70% of your health bar by the archers.

>>719494472
No they aren't

>>719494579
>This doesn't make sense because I decide it doesn't
except that wasn't what was said, you fucking retard. but please, continue being an idiot, because its not like any of this matters anyway. or do you expect me to believe that melina is the gloam eyed queen, among other absolute mentally stunted dogshit retardation?

>>719494579
>>The Gloam-Eyed Queen led the apostles. It is said that she was an Empyrean chosen by the Fingers.
>>The apostles, once said to serve Destined Death, are wielders of the god-slaying black flame.
>>But after their defeat by Maliketh, the Black Blade, the source of their power was sealed away.
So where is this statement of betrayal?
This just says that Maliketh beat the Gloam Eyed Queen and sealed the Rune of Death.
Nothing in those lines implies that he was on her side at any point before this.
So where do you get that idea?

>>719494493
TO SEE THE PRIMEVAL CURRENT YOU FUCKING MORON
IT WAS ALL FOR KNOWLEDGE
Just because she shows obvious regrets at the end doesnt mean this wasnt her plan to become a focus for that knowledge.
>It warms my heart. That you still think of me. Yet I still yearn, for you to find Master Lusat. His body is needed. At the academy, to hone the primeval current...
>I need him (Azur) to restore the primeval current of glintstone sorcery. He's nigh a child of the stars, such is his body now...
>This brings us a full step closer. The bodies of Masters Azur and Lusat can be admitted to the academy.

>>719447959
The fucking shrimp
>can't disengage without getting sniped
>always in a crowd
>cant get close without them sleeping.

>>719493186
Azur and Lusat mog her.

>>719491045
>>719492450
JESUS CHRIST YOU'RE DISINGENUOUS AS FUCK
YOU DELIBERATELY IGNORED THE ACTUAL MEANINGFUL PORTION OF HIS ORIGINAL QUESTION
lmao I hope you're jebaiting for the sake of it, you can't be for real

>>719494579
If someone is a God in truth, rather than being a false god or something of that sort, that means they are genuinely so. That Marika was consensually made a God by the Fingers.
Again, the Fingers say that she was their means to guide their vision, and never deny that legitimacy. We aren't told that she was a faker or thief that stole their blessing (somehow).
But that after being chosen and being the one who'd carry out the Fingers' vision, she rebelled and was punished.

Ymir is insane and also believes that he should replace Metyr as the Mother of the Fingers so that he can birth better Fingers than she did.
He thinks the Fingers fucked up. Because he specifies both Marika and the Two Fingers that worked with her
>I fear that you have borne witness to the whole of it. The conceits—the hypocrisy—of the world built upon the Erdtree. The follies of men. Their bitter suffering.
>Is there no hope for redemption?
>The answer, sadly, is clear. There never was any hope. They were each of them defective. Unhinged, from the start. Marika herself. And the fingers that guided her.
>And this is what troubles me. No matter our efforts, if the roots are rotten, ...then we have little recourse.
Marika was guided by Fingers, but the Fingers were in error.
Ymir does not believe that the Two Fingers or Metyr are inerrant.