No you don't understand! Looking at shitty low sample rate raytracing with a blurry denoise filter is BETTER than crystal clear high sample rate non-blurry baked raytracing because... BECAUSE IT JUST IS, OK???
>>735026854That image doesn't look blurry though.
>>735026854i know what some of those words mean
>>735026906I think it's an image of the latter.From Half Life Alyx? Not sure.
PC toddlers would rather argue about brick walls than play games
>>735026854Holy fuck what's up with that left flange? The bolts just vanish.
>>735027040Doesn't have as nice a ring to it at NintoddIers.
ahhh, much better
>>735026854You'd still find something to cry about. Baking costs a lot of space. If you want to do a day night cycle it costs even more space. Baked can leak light. Obviously, nothing actually reacts to baked lighting since it's fucking BAKED. Every character will glow in the dark.
More autismDeferred rendering + TAA mogs. Just look at Star Wars Battlefront, Half Life Alyx, and Doom 2016, all run and look great.
>>735027183>installs reshade>applies clarity2Your move blurry man
>>735027048AI cannot comprehend the idea that things are supposed to have function.
>>735027183>Images like this make Digital Foundry piss and cum themselves
>>735026854>no chromatic abberationbro this is so fake looking
>>735027393You think Valve used AI to model their assets?
>>735027314That doesn't work
I will never understand the obsession with "dynamic everything" when the games don't even do anything with it and have worse physics and world interaction than games from 15 years ago.It makes sense when you realize it's just corpos trying to justify their horrible, incompetent jeet outsourcing not being able to produce anything that looks good since they lack an artistic soul, so they need everything to be automated by shitty UE5.
>>735027574If they didn't, then whoever had the job to make those models didn't care to make it look realistic. Just slapped something together and said "eh, no one's gonna look."
>>735026854how can we achieve this on a open world scale with dynamic lighting ?
>>735027261Modern AA methods like TAA and DLAA are the reason for most of the disgusting niggery we get in modern engines like Red, UE5 and (the worse offender) RE, because of their side effect to (very poorly) de-noise.
>>735027842>how can we achieve this on a open world scale with dynamic lighting?Ask Rockstar, they've done it plenty of times. Then again it requires white development teams, which are sadly disappearing.
>>735027658>Claims to not understand>Proceeds to show he understands entirely
>>735027240>Every character will glow in the dark>Unless you use light points and shadersWow, that was hard!
>>735028534pic unrelated ?
>>735028752GTAV uses a ton of baked lighting, Ranjeet. You know you can used baked and dynamic ligting together, right?
>>735028930They just look like shit anon. Nowhere near as good as op pic. And GTA V enhanced edition with ray tracing looks way better than og GTA V
>>735026854i don't think that even the drunkest builder do such shit brickwork
>>735029094>A PS3 game made in 2013 looks worse than HLADamn, you've got me there
>>735029238Raytracing would have fixed the geometry.
>>735028738in cutscenes maybe you fucking retard. point lights DO NOT BOUNCE. the face WILL glow. shaders? wtf are you talking about you dunning kruger retard. self shadowing is the closest thing I guess but that's still extremely expensive and still maeks the face glow BECAUSE RASTER FUCKING SUCKS.
>>735029094GTA V enhanced edition with ray tracing also looks better than most games literally made for raytracing. Curious.
>>735026854Yeah bro lets just drop ray tracing for everything, just don't complain when your games take 300gb to install and three days to compile
>>735027261>Deferred renderingAlways looks like shit.
>>735029317>briX3tracing>runs 1 frame per minute>game journos overjoyed and declare bricklaying a profession of the past
>we invented a shitty system that makes it look like you have an aggressive sharpening filter on and causes shadows to become black pits of despair around every single object, but this is good because it's better than the eye raping blurry vaseline crap we were shoving into everything before
>>735029481Games with RT are already nearing 200+ GB, and this is a retarded point because EVERY SINGLE GAME WITH RT ON THE MARKET STILL USES BAKED LIGHTING AS A FALLBACK BECAUSE GPUS ARE NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH FOR ACTUAL FULL RT YOU FUCKING RETARDED NIGGER
>>735027040>brick walls
>>735029614gee well maybe if you turdies actually bought into RT we wouldn't need a full day night cycle to be baked.
>>735029481All the most abnoxiously huge install sizes are from raytraced games, you retarded gorilla nigger.
>>735029656I'm not spending $1600 on a GPU to play video games and generate slop.Not my problem, either provide what the consumer wants or fuck off and die.
>>735029656>we wouldn't need a full day night cycle to be baked.B-but RTshills told me day/night cycles couldn't be baked.
>>735029738you can pay for a 5 TB SSD then you fucking moron.
>>735029682I'll buy into it when it looks as good as the OP at native resolution without being blurry of having noise/artifacts.
>>735027240>nothing actually reacts to baked lighting since it's fucking BAKEDMOGnity solved this problem for cheap in 2015.
>>735029861enjoy the light leaks you utter fucking retard. and no it doesn't it's just a cheap approximation where - again everything will glow.
>>735029829Still better value than buying a $1600 card to play games that it can't even run without DLSS.
>>735029991no it isn't. one actually is trying to push something to a new fresh direction. the other's just more of the same but scale it to the point that it isn't worth it anymore except for the turdie brain.
>>735029917>where - again everything will glowLike how everything indoors glows in DD2 when raytracing is turned on?
>>735030034>to a new fresh direction.LolLmao
>>735030097Where you utter fucking retard.>>735030131Yeah. If we were still stuck on Raster you'd be playing your shitty 300GB baked games. with actual vaseline filter that is simple TAA we've been using.
>>735027261TAA is the Great Satan and was invented and pushed by NVIDIA so they could then sell a 'solution' to it.
>RTfags will look at these graphics and think 'Peak'
>>735027261>HLAMSAA*
>>735030219>If we were still stuck on RasterWe are still stuck on raster, you fucking retard.see>>735029614There is no fully raytraced game that makes 0 use of any baked lighting elements on the market, even games that are RT-only still have baked elements in their lighting, because GPUs aren't powerful enough to actually run those lighting effects with realtime RT.
>>735026854I hate it when game artists overdo brick placements etc, no wall would ever have a brick sticking out like that, reminds me of that dog shit art from spyro/crash remakes stone slabs sticking out by 4 inches everywhere
>>735030365now post how shadows change position every tick in MGSV.>>735030339YES BECAUSE OF TURDIES LIKE YOU. DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS.
this bullshit goes all the way back to when jewvidia bought and killed voodoo, who were going to focus on shader-based improvements to graphics, as opposed to "MOAR POLYGONS!" which is part of why these shit-ass games are bloated to hell.
>>735030287what's so bad about it ? Apart from the terrible compression
>>735030357You might get the ones on the corner like that specifically for decorative purposes (though it would go all the way up rather than just be some of them) but you're right that the random bricks just poking out of the wall are dumb and make it look like the house was just built wrong.
>>735026906Because Alyx uses 4xMSAA
>ESL RTshills unironically believe that you can't do believable day-night cycles without raytracingWhere does this retardation come from?Is it just a byproduct of having grown up in a third world country where modern consumer electronics weren't even available until 2017?
>>735030940It's got to be paid shills that are spreading that kind of retardation.
>>735030940I think you misunderstood the argument. They were talking about pre-baked lighting which is fixed rather than dynamic. To get different lighting conditions i.e different times of day and night it means you need to bake new lighting for all those different times of day.
>>735018312literal bot repost
>>735031097>They were talking about pre-baked lighting which is fixed rather than dynamic.All non-RT lighting is pre-baked, what the fuck are you talking about?>To get different lighting conditions i.e different times of day and night it means you need to bake new lighting for all those different times of day.Good, then do that.There's nothing stopping a decent dev from doing that, only outsourced Indian labor thinks that's worth bitching about.>B-but muh dev timesYour dev times are still retardedly long even WITH raytracing, because it turns out that the issue was not the lighting needing to be created by hand by actual artists, but that shitty outsourced labor ends up causing more issues than it solves because outsourced laborers are retarded. Go ask Ubishit.
>>735026854I have a 4090 and turned off pathtracing cause of the forced upscale. Shit makes the whole game look blurry
>>735031474Baked lighting is a form of ray tracing but it's pre-calculated and it's also not the only way to do it, it's just how you get high quality lighting without needing to actually do ray tracing in real time.
>>735030940>>735031474>0 depth to the grass it literally looks like a flat png.Try harder.
>>735028167This image is a load of horseshit. FXAA/SMAA is better than than smeary TAA, especially in REngine games.
>>735031649Sounds like every current game as well.
>>735031474now show how awful the cities and interiors in this game look because of the lack of decent global illumination
>>735031738not with path tracing where lighting is actually RAYTRACED.
>>735032126Pathtracing isn't going to turn a 2D billboard into a 3D object you fucking moron, what the fuck are you talking about?Besides, you can accomplish 95% of the exact same effect with screen space shadows and contact shadows, something that even dogshit like UE5 already does by default anyways.
>>735031662if you like 1bit dithering on hair or pretty much any transparent object and shimmering from subpixel lighting sure.
>>735031474Buildings don't occlude the glow of a burning Shilka wreck.
>>735032253>Pathtracing isn't going to turn a 2D billboard into a 3D object you fucking moronIt would however give grass shadows giving it depth rather than just being a green carpet.
>>735032253YOU'RE RETARDEEED. HOW DO YOU THINK HAIR CASTS SHADOW EVNE THOUGH THEY'RE CARDS. PUT A BARREL TO YOUR CRANIUM AND PULL THE TRIGGER YOU APE.
>>735026854That's just some bricks and a pipe, who gives a shit?Post something worth looking at
>>735029238if you press them in the right order a secret passage opens up
>>735032351>It would however give grass shadowsAgain, you can already do that without raytracing, and games have been doing that for literally over a decade.>>735032358You're retarded, kill yourself.
>>735032253>screen space shadowsYes, I love shit disappearing when I move the camera.
>>735032737AO IS A HACK. A SHITTY ONE AT THAT. barely an approximation of what's happening. you keep posting these forests - the easiest use case for this shit. all your hacks will look like shit anyhwere in doors.
>>735027240>Every character will glow in the dark.
>>735032737I don't mean "it's darker underneath", I mean that in your video before all of those blades of grass and bushes and things are casting a proper shadow that also moves with the sun like they do in real life.
>>735026854another poop eater cope thread - great
>>735032745Damn, guess I better give up 3/4 of my framerate and smear my screen in vaseline instead, that's so much better.>>735032785Again, you're retarded, kill yourself. The image isn't even showing off AO, it's showing off 2D objects that cast shadows as if they were 3D, something games have been doing for literally decades.
>>735032805He's literally glowing. and casts some magical shadow while he's in shadow. again you're retarded. anything that isn't RT is a shitty hack that breaks constantly.
>>735026854> OP
>>735030287I can't play Cyberpunk because performance is terrible on Linux.
>>735032868IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSEI T'S A SHITTY HACK THAT BREAKS WITH ANY ACTUAL COMPLEXITY THAT ISN'T A FUCKING FOREST. DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS.
>>735032785>just ray trace every blade of grass on every frame bro, if you use any approximations that are 100x faster it's a HACK, NO STOP!!>the constant smearing and ghosting due to sampling limitations are okay though
>>735032876>RT is a shitty hackAgreed, that's why it needs fake resolutions and fake frames.
>>735032947Again, you're fucking retarded, kill yourself.
>>735032981nice reading comprehension retard.>>735032982again you're the retard who still clings onto crap and can't let go because your turdie brain can't comprehend spending a bit for something better.
>>735033056Sorry, not interested in spending more for a worse framerate, thanks.Feel free to eat shit though.
>>735032972the constant ghosting and smearing will always be there because of temporal everything. there's no escape. you're kidding yourself if you think TAA is better than DLSS or god forbid screenspace crap like refelctions or shadow that disappear at the slightest movement and have a bajillion artifacts.
>>735033087I know. that's why you don't have anything to stand on. neck yourself asap.
>>735032943What GPU? I was running on a RX6600, anon. It's even better now on a 9060 XT 16GB, and I'm on rig slightly better than a poorfag build. 5700X/32GB RAM
can you graphicsfags honestly fuck off? you've done enough damage, take your diminishing returns and your shitty realism that will get dated in a couple years, and let gameplay take the reigns. GPUs, RAM, and even storage are being fucked by AI corpos anyway, so the devs will have to learn to optimize as people can no longer afford hardware.
>>735027240Here's a physics object in Half-Life Alyx. Looks good even though the lighting is baked
>>735033297>can you graphicsfags honestly fuck off? you've done enough damage, take your diminishing returns and your shitty realism that will get dated in a couple years, and let gameplay take the reigns. You say like that it would change anything. Game makers have been invested in graphics for far too long for they to drop that leash now. My only hope, and it's tiny, for gameplay to start getting some respect is this RAM/GPU crisis actually force them to focus on everything else, but this already feels like a fool's errand
>>735033297*reins
>>735026854Kevin approves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNR5EiqA05cValve is prbably the best managed gaming company at the moment.
>20 year old self-taught (via Youtube clickbait) tech "experts" telling you that things we've been doing since before they were born aren't possible because My First Game Engine doesn't have a button to just do it for you
>>735027723Anon, Half Life Alyx released in March 2020The best shit we had back then was AI Dungeon and GPT-2. The best we had for images was jack shit, not even Dall-e 1 was a thing yetAnd you think they were out there generating 3D models before 2019?
>>735033403My objects look bad. Checkmate, baked lighting sucks
>>735026854Why optimise, when you can upscale the thing, not once, but twice!We're really going backwards in the gaming technology.
>>735035427Baked lighting is fine when used appropriately i.e in scenes with fixed lighting.
I'm beginning to miss n64 grafix.At least those didn't make games take 10 years to come out
>>735027658>I will never understand the obsession with "dynamic everything"Especially since the day-night cycle could be implemented very easily, with much lower computation power: just make time flow when you enter dialogues and buildings. When the player leaves these scenarios, make a certain amount of time pass, and the lighting with it. And there you have static lighting, a day-night cycle, and much less computational power needed. In pic. rel. you have some old dev explaining how the next generation of developers are incompetent and low IQ.
>>735029238>i don't think that even the drunkest builder do such shit brickwork**only applies to white workers.
>>735035427>baked lighting sucksMeanwhile in RT town:
>>735037579Compared to:
>>735027723Dude level designers just put stuff together that looks good. Most of us don’t care about the small details like this well enough, since we don’t make the assets to begin with. You don’t have all the time in the world to pay attention to individual bolts on little prop pieces that 99.9999% of people aren’t going to look at for more than a second anyway.
>>735036587>just make time flow when you enter dialogues and buildingsOr just do what open world games have beein doing forever and precompute lighting and updated it every few seconds. The sun moves so slowly that no one is going to notice a shadow moving 1mm every 10 seconds, even if RT shills claim they can (disproven by the RT shill in this very thread that thought the shadows in GTAV were all real time).
>>735037579works on my machine
>>735027040>>735027105PCeethers
>>735026854They should sort out that leak, longer those bricks stay wet the more chance it'll do substantial damage
>>735038187Why does it look so hazy and plastic?
>>735037753Compared to
>>735038281I don't know what you're talking about. Enlighten me and show me how a random NPC in an open world game is supposed to look like
>>735038546>, 860x502
>>735027261Alyx uses forward rendering, dough.
>>735039010It's what I could pull off Google. I don't have the game nor could I probably run it like that even if I did but with Path Tracing on RE Requiem looks stupid good.
>>735026854How do you solve global illumination with day and night cycles using baked lighting?
https://youtu.be/WjQjkyezNpI
>>735039120You can do it with a probe based setup like in Decima, Fox engine and Ubisofts engine.The way they did it in horizon is place cubes in the map and bake out the GI for 6 different time of day and blend between the results.It's not high quality by any means but outdoor enviorments mainly lit by the sun don't need to be high quality to get convincing results for 99.9% of people.
>>735039010Found a video with high resolution.https://youtu.be/u0mgOPbpagc
>>735039120You don't need "global illumination with day and night cycles" for anything.
>>735039919You do if you want a game that is set outside that also has the passing of time.
>>735033403Impressive, very nice. Let's see any other dev team's near photorealistic looking assets.
>>735039969You really don'tSure it looks a lot nicer but it's far from required
>>735027183DoF.jpg
>>735040085Depends. Do you want your game to look like Doom 3 with your shadows just being black?
>>735040085Or do you want a light to actually be able to light a room?
>>735026854>MSAA is too expensive, its just not feasible anymore:cccccccccc>so lets use an extremely expensive lighting option, high poly models where they dont belong and never ever attempt to make the game optimized at allUE5 does forward rendering btw. If your game cant play at 4k60 high without copescaling/fake frames im not interested.
>>735038546Not a fan of the gloom.
>>735040273polys are free at this point. they'll be even more free once devs stop catering to turdies like you and use mesh shaders.
>>735040367It's pissing rain and looks like it.
Why is Ray always tracing?
>>735038948Nice pasta.
>>735040405there is nothing more brown than using excessive resources when its not needed.
>>735040193Frankly there are methods to making shit brighter in dark spaces to hide the lack of GIOr the methods pointed out >>735039486There are some more methods to do a proper bake but usually don't involve light maps and are usually engine specific besides placing fake non shadow casting lights to fake GI
>>735039120Same way Rockstar did in ALL OF THEIR OPEN WORLD GAMES
>>735040525it is needed if you want to actually progress.
>>735040579sometimes progress is taking a look around an realizing youre going the wrong direction and backtracking to find the right path.
>>735040731the right path is not doing hacks but doing something properly.
>>735040796would be a convincing argument if anything was being done properly in the first place.
>>735040963and doing hacks is being proper to you? get fucking real man.
>>735040963The hacks were before required because real time ray tracing wasn't possible at anything like a playable framerate. Now it is at least if you have the most modern hardware which means you don't need to fake it any more.
>>735040579>NOOOO, YOU CAN'T COMPRESS TEXTURES!!!>WE NEED 900GB UNCOMPRESSED GAMES!>DRIVELETS ARE HOLDING GAMING BACK!
>>735040579>Powah of da Cell
>>735041123>Graphics technology needs to stop because my PC is shit and I can't afford to upgrade to the latest technology required to run it
I like when my rays are tracing in my vidyas, they make them look nice. why can't everyone be happy
>>735040998Based! Down with fucking nomal mapping and tessalation! REAL GEOMETRY ONLY!Fuck textures too, for that matter
>>735040998>>735041075real time realistic lighting is a false god cope and is actively damaging to many games as it turns everything into a same-y feeling grey sludge. Lighting is an extremely high part of art direction. In a movie, painting, whatever, taking liberties with the lights in a creative way can elevate the scene significantly more than what "real life" would or should look like.
>>735041369>4070 is now a poorfag GPUGrim. Consolefags were right about us.
>>735041442Why the fuck did we even bother with 3D? It's far too expensive to run on my Atari.
>>735041529Yes we know it's bad when you can't run it
>>735041557>>4070 is now a poorfag GPUalways was
>>735041529Nope, every game should look like a home video.
>>735041529>You can't be creative with the lighting because it's running in real timeRetarded.
>>735041560Ok, Switchfag.
>RT shills still haven't posted a screenshot with better lighting than the OP
>>735041738see>>735039561
>>735041738The OP screenshot has no lighting. It's a VR game. The image is basically a photograph texture.
>>7350416154070 is on par with a 5070, which are on par with a fucking 3090.
>>735036967Po to Pan Bóg dał oczy, żeby robić na oko.
>>735041369>Graphics technology needs to stopIt stopped 10 years ago, because the devs got lazy with optimisation, and other times, the suits push the game despite running like shit, because it will sell anyway. What a fucking slave-cuckold mentality. Let the companies drain our wallets to no end, just so they don't have to put any effort.
>>735026854>valve still using outdated blinn phong shadinglmao
>>735042198Clearly hasn't when you can now do real time ray tracing which by the way is the gold standard to lighting even when pre-rendered.
>>735027105Pisspigs
>>735042268What good is that "gold standard", if the game peaks at 40 fps?
>>735042525If you actually watched the video I linked you to it's running at 60fps without DLSS and at 300 (yes hundred) fps with it on. Which reminds me DLSS is another new game changing graphics technology.
>>735040446He has no artistic talent
>>735042687How can one be so naive. It's a marketing video, nothing's real in it. They either fabricated it, or they built a PC with 3 graphic cards in an SLI.
>>735043682>>735040446>He has no artistic talentIsn't Ray a "she"?
>>735043757False advertising is not actually legal. It's running on real hardware 60 (ok 58) fps at 4K natively and 200-300fps with DLSS. That 60fps is also when it's struggling with a complex scene outdoors. Indoors it's even higher. You probably need a 5090 to actually do it that well which is expensive but still.
>>735042165>b-b-but it's it's the same as a GPU from 3x generations agolol exactly
anyone else sick of realistic environments?
>>735045221I miss games having artstyles, yes
